O que é CATIMBÓ? com MESTRE LUCAS

Again it is a pleasure, an honor to be here with Baba Mario, to be here talking about Jurema, which is something that really encourages me to talk. I come from a small town in the interior of Paraíba called Alhandra, which for many is the cradle of the Sacred Jurema. Historically, it is from there that the greatest conceptions and the greatest families of catimbó begin.

just like Candomblé, just like some religious traditions, the Jurema is about families, about conceptions, traditions. So Alhandra takes the bias of the conception of the beginning of what happens, of the beginning of the beginning,

to what we know today as Katimbó, or as we commonly call Sacred Jurema. It is very common for people to say... "Oh, I am from Sacred Jurema." And it can cause confusion for those who do not know the cult, because Jurema is only one of the plants or sacred concepts that we worship within the Katimbó.

Angico, Juca, Aroeira, Junco, Jurema and several other plants of our Northeast are part of this mystical universe that is the Catimbó. Conception that migrates from indigenous villages with the forced catechization of the Indians and goes to the city, to the meu civinho, having its modifications, of course,

so that it could adapt and so that we could continue to cultivate what we call "Encantado". Concepts like cruzeiro, like cachimbo, like the trunk itself, which would be a clasp or a piece of the trunk of the jurema, which is very common in the catimbao landfills today, but then...

We have to take from the beginning of the tradition, from the beginning of how the catimbó arises, within the cities, with the persecution. It was a unbridled persecution, and due to this persecution, many practices had to be modified to hide in the middle of the city. We know the table jurema, which was a conception that was used to deceive the volante at the time.

where two juremeiros sat each at the tip of the table ... they put a cup ... a prince as it is commonly called ... and a cineta ... instead of maracá. The cineta served to enchant the enchanted ... to serve as a sound extra ... and if ... due to some complaint or some persecution ... the thief entered that house ... nothing could prove the practice of witchcraft or ...

or a pagan practice as was considered the catimbó because... there would be only two cups... on a table... and the cineta... which was used at that time... to serve the food on the table. So there was a way to camouflage in this environment. The floor jurema... which was made inside the forest... did not use the maracá... or when it was used at late hours of the night... only the maracá and the palm of the hand.

It was another way of hiding from the police, and even being in the civil environment, they would enter the woods to keep the people from being caught, because the reprisal at the time was not only the prison. Many Juremeiros were killed, they were beaten to death, and they were also denied help in hospitals and they were also forbidden to be buried in cemeteries.

So Alhandra became known as ... "In Alhandra there is the cemetery of the masters." "There in the Acáias there is the cemetery of the masters." In fact, this is not a deep truth. What happened a lot inside Alhandra is that when the juremeiros died, they were buried in what they had of property ... at home, in the yard, in the farm ... and so that the demarcation of the place where that beloved client was not lost,

were buried... they planted a jureme foot on top... as a marking... as a way of marking... where my ancestor... my beloved uncle was buried. Also with the analogy that the tree planted on top... would be... in the future... a portal for me to have access... to that ancestor.

If we are in a cult where we see that sacred trees are portals to spiritual cities, then if I plant a sacred tree on top of where my ancestor was baptized, in the future that tree will be accessible to my ancestor. It is very common to see in Alhandra, in a neighborhood called Estivas, the famous cities of Jurema, there are several feet of Jurema,

that make up the city ... each one baptized, consecrated to a master. And in some situations ... they were enchanted and consecrated as masters and buried under it. The last city of Jurema that is part of the Alhanda district ... is the one my grandmother left. My grandmother passed away in the 80's ... and leaves the last city of Jurema. The youngest foot of Jurema there ...

It's 22 years old and the oldest is over 77. So today there are 11 Jurema feet, there would be 14, but 3 were safed criminally and today we have the last historical space to guard. Feet of Jurema and ancient Jurema conceptions, the context of the Catimbó era of the Acais.

which is another controversy today within the cult, another conception that has been lost a lot because the family of Akai is divided. I speak of a carnal, bloody family. When we take the course of all this prejudice, of all this that Jurema went through, of all this persecution, then the modifications begin so that the cult could arrive here today, as we are talking about. Up to ten years ago it was almost impossible to see someone talking about Jurema in a way...

quiet, there were people wanting to listen to Jurema, it was almost impossible. Within all the modifications, Jurema starts from the open space of nature itself, into the living room, into a house, and how are we going to cultivate the tree now, since we are forbidden to have it. Whoever planted a foot of Jurema, the police would go there and force me to cut it.

"So, how am I going to do it? How am I going to worship my Enchanted now? How am I going to sit my master? How am I going to have an access point to the Enchanted who works with me, who guides me?" And then it was when there was all the modification within the cult. What would be a tree became a trunk inside a ridá, and we had to, within our sapience, look for a way to give strength to that piece of trunk, to give meaning to that piece of trunk, to give foundation to that piece of trunk.

So again the jurema goes through this modification until it reaches what we know today as mento, which is the touch jurema, which is the beat. It is a new conception of jurema because before, not only in Paraíba, but also in the entire Northeast, there was a prohibition of the touch of the ilu, of the drum. Ilu would be the most common ritualistic drum used within jurema.

So the "toque" of the "ilu", the "mazuka"... or "mazuka" as some call it... which is the way of hitting the "ilu"... the rhythm of the "ilu"... it was forbidden. So we knew a lot the table jurema... and the floor jurema... and over time the "toque"... the "mazuka" started to enter these spaces... these halls... and today...

is the most familiar form of jurema. I can recognize a brother here who is also from jurema, who also practices jurema in a traditional way, who also does an important job, which is to take jurema within social networks, who is Expo Jurema, congratulations on the work. So today jurema goes through another transformation.

which is to pass from a tradition that passed all its knowledge only in an oral way... and today it needs... it has the need... to take all this knowledge structure... and throw it in a scientific way... so that it is rich in easy understanding... so that it can be studied in universities... so that it is easy to understand in courses... in lectures... in short... because it is a very rich tradition.

It is very rich. There is no way for us to refer to the Northeast when we talk about jurema, when we talk about the way the Northeast dresses, how it eats, how it speaks, the customs of the drink that is used in cultural means, like our Quintão, which is used within our São João, and it is one of the most common drinks within the ritualistic of jurema, which is our salão drink.

So all these traditions of the Northeast and Jurema ... they are very strongly related ... and there is no way for us to talk about one without mixing them up. After all these adaptations ... today we have gone through some more ...

And then, taking the context that I can never stop talking about, which is my tradition, the tradition of Alhanda, she is the one who strongly taught me all these practices of survival. Today I have been doing it for eight days that I am in São Paulo, seven days I have already lost a lot of money, and in a short time many people did not hear about the sacred jurema here in São Paulo.

Today it is something much more open, today it is something much more spoken, because the Jurema was very crowded, the people ... Baba Mario had the opportunity to go to Alhandra and he saw with his own eyes, he felt that the Jurema that is practiced there is very closed, it is very closed, people are afraid to open their doors because they don't know what they will expect. So today,

I try... to be part of this youth... even though I was born in a jurema monastery... my grandmother was a master jazzecíl... she was a woman who revolutionized inside Alianza. She was the first to play the ilu because it was forbidden. She was the first woman inside Alianza... to play the ilu... to play the jurema drum... because it was forbidden. In Paraíba the cult was liberated in the 60's. Only then...

very little time ago... only then did she manage to take this forward. So she was a woman who was five years old and had her first incorporation. At the time it was something... abnormal... it was something from another world. And that's when the prejudice was persecuted, it was taken as crazy... until a master named Manuel Severo... a man... a juremeiro of the time... who... arrived at my great-grandmother's house and said... "Well... I have to inform you that your daughter is not crazy."

even though society imposes that your daughter is not crazy, your daughter is medium, and I ask you with all my license to take care of your daughter. At the time my great-grandmother had no other choice, she had nothing else to do and she wanted her daughter to be healthy again. Because at the time mediocrity or incorporation was something of insanity, it was linked to insanity, even possession and something bad.

and this doctrine was passed on to my grandmother who was 12 years old and she had already traveled the paths that a juremaer travels and worked only and exclusively for Jurema until the last day of her death and her life. She always worked for Jurema, she did nothing but that.

She was internationally known in this field, but she was an illiterate woman, she didn't know how to write, she didn't know how to read, and even so she revolutionized within what she could, within the cult, she raised and raised a city of Jurema, she kept standing, she worshiped until the last day of her life, and left this legacy for us. So when I was born, this tradition had been in the family for a long time,

All this practice had been inherited by my mother who was the successor... my mother who kept all this liturgical instrument, all this space... and then... I... soon after I moved on... I'm 26 years old... I'm almost 10 years ahead of the house... along with my mother... and that's what we do... "Cá Timbó... queimar mato..."

the act of burning the forest. A word so simple, but in our daily life, or at least in the understanding of most people, it is something negative. When we talk about words like macumba, like catimbaó, it always has a negative connotation around it. But when we say Tupi-Guarani, it means burning the forest. When the European comes to the villages,

who will catechize the Indians and are using the cachimbo ... they wonder what this would be. "Cára-timbó" ... we are burning the bush ... burning the grass ... the fragrant grass. So ... everything that was not a matter ... everything that was not through ... the teaching of the Catholic Church ... was pagan practice. So "cára-timbó" is something bad.

Macumba is something bad. And this has been going on for years and has been put in our society as something bad and today it is such a simple word. In our native language, Tupi, it means "marmato".

can be explained in a short time. So... I particularly... adopt the term "catembolzeiro"... and "catembol" in my religion... because within our cult it is impossible... basically... 99% of all practices are based on the use of smoke... and smoke... and herbs... the blood and herbs... there is not much logic... in this...

the cutting of this term. It is necessary that we study and go deep ... for those who understand ... as I explained ... the sacred jurema is a common name ... in the practice of Katimbó. But we don't have only the jurema as a sacred tree. It can be ... and is ... one of the most known in the Katimbó cult. But it is not the most ...

more important. We will not deem others to put jurema as the central tree of the cult. The connotation of jurema, for being so important in the cult, is due to its wine. The wine, the entheogen that causes the transit within the cult, even in the villages, comes from the root of the black jurema.

that people even erroneously associate with black and white jurema is because one does good and the other does evil, but this is a completely wrong statement, it is due to the conception and condition of its shell.

The black jurema has a darker shell, more grotesque, and the white jurema is more slender, thinner, it has a shorter life span, its seed is different, its flower is different, its seed base is different, and its liturgical use is different. Do not extract wine from the root of the white jurema.

you can't even make a cachimbo with white virema, because it is a tree that does not have a very thick trunk, its wood after drying is fluffy,

As for the black jurema, no. The black jurema is a tree that grows a lot, it is a shrub, it has a lot of thorns, it has a thick shell condition, where it is possible to remove this shell and do countless things, from bathing, from medicinal medicine, right? So people make this allusion to white jurema and black jurema in a wrong way, also remembering that there are several types of acacia, there are several types of mimosa,

In the northeast of Pernambuco, in the Pernambuco region, we managed to get a type of black jeremih that is totally different from the black jeremih that we know in Alejandra. The black jeremih is basically more commonly used in ritualistic rituals.

So... I see people here in São Paulo who send me messages... "Lucas, I found a piece of jurema here in the woods and when you see it, it is a caccia, in fact, it is a mimosa, but it is not in fact the black jurema used in the ritualistic ritual. It has a seed base, but...

thin... when it dries it has a brownish color... and its seed is very small... very small. This seed that commonly in traditions... in some... goes into the disciple's skin... a firmness of strength for the body... so that he can have strength... to receive the enchantment that will be destined to him within spirituality.

So... I... for it not to be too extensive... I would like to hear from you a little... if you have any questions... let's go... but... if you have any questions at first about this first...

aspect that we talked about jurema ... about the question of persecution here ... is there a question? I have a question regarding the black jurema that you mentioned ... which is an entheogen that has DMT ... it has a trace ... Yes ... it has DMT in the composition of its root ... not in its shell ... but in the composition of its root it has DMT ... in large quantities ...

and due to the practice that is done in the villages, the priest chose from some people that he saw that he was spiritually able to drink the wine. And this drinking was done and within a closed space, within a liturgy, where there was a spiritual protection, he offered the disciple wine.

and then he was in a fasting process... so that that substance could be absorbed more easily by the organism... and then he started to get into a trance. This trance was intended for him to go to the ancestors and bring information... information about herbs... about magic... about... anyway... countless situations.

and the priest who was awake and who did not make use of it was there ... so that if that trance escaped control he could return to that disciple of that trance. Today we usually see people who use ... or randomly try to do or elaborate the vijnema wine ...

Some mix the Huda Daciri, the Jagube, the Ayahuasca... and do that but that hurts the religious sentiment. Does it hurt? It hurts... because within indigenous practices it does not mix... and it is not taken in a recreational way...

spiritual condition... there is a motivation... you propose to drink it through the vision of your oldest... of your toyope... of your cacique... of your ancestor... and you drink it with the purpose of being connected to the sacred... it's not just like this... "Ah... I'm going to drink it... ah... I'm going to do it... do I have the condition to do it... do my oldest give me the condition to make this wine... do I have the condition to do it...

The foundation of my family tradition... I see people today who teach how to make wine... in a way that is... boiled at the root. In my tradition the wine is not boiled. In some conceptions of the village... imagine... let's see... Brazil... 1500... the arrival of the Europeans. The practice of the paje lança... the Indians were already in Brazil...

the jurema already existed... and all this plant already existed. It didn't have the condition of boiling... of pan... of going there... it didn't have. The root was removed... it was macerated... and it enters a process of natural fermentation.

I don't know if anyone here has ever drunk wine of janeima ... but the wine when it is inside the bottle or the receptacle ... it ferments ... it creates a white cream on top ... and its taste is highly bitter and sour. So it creates a process of natural fermentation ... and it was from that process ... after that process ... lunar phase ... days ... spiritual conception ... that was taken and was made.

Today people mix ... Ayahuasca, the road of Assyria, Yagube ... "No, because the traffic will increase, because we will do ..." Well, today we have the study condition and we know that Ayahuasca, the root of the Jurema, causes ... they are entheogens and cause the traffic. But being within the spiritual concept is very different. So that's basically it.

One more question. Regarding the baptism in the Jurema, the "tomo" of the Jurema, what is the difference between the two, if you can speak about it, in the process, if you can talk about the process? The baptism of the Jurema ... it is born ... it is a tradition that is born with a forced catechization. But the indigenous sapience is very wide. For me, I think it's one of the things that I love the most about the cult.

the indigenous is obliged to be baptized ... it is all that Christian baptism concept that we all know ... "water, I don't know what, I baptize you in the name of God ..." So the indigenous says ... "well, we were forced to do this practice ... and we absorbed this practice." An older indigenous was obliged, it was passed on to him to baptize the other Indians in the name of God. So he says ... "well, I'm going to baptize."

but I will baptize myself according to my understanding. I will not use water, I will use the blood of the herbs, I will use the green juice. The sacred herbs that I have I will use. I will not use oysters, nor bread, nor wine. I offer my ancestors with the fruit, with the bark, with the roots, so that's what I'm going to offer.

and then I will baptize my disciple ... I will baptize my brother from the village ... and then the baptism of Jurema was born. Today it is much more modern ... today we received the cachimbo ... washed in our baptism ...

Today we received a thinner account... for our protection... we received a prince... that is that question of being linked to ancestry... of clairvoyance... of evidence... in the past we didn't have that... but anyway... it was this condition of baptism... that came... forced... on top of the village... and the Indian with his wisdom... he... puts it in his favor. "I will baptize my disciple..."

but with the sacred herbs that bless his body... to mediumically sacralize his body in a way that he has spiritual strength... "Let's do it like this..." "It's not wine, it's not bread, it's not oyster..." "It's fish... it's fruit... it's cassava... it's potato... it's yam..."

corn... let's offer our ancestors... let's invite our ancestors... so that when this disciple is baptized all the ancestors... Indians, Toyopes, Karsites... are present and bless him in his spiritual journey. After this baptismal context...

The disciple has all his mediumship development journey, to know his spirituality, his ancestrality, master, mentor, kaboku, truncator, anyway... he goes on the journey inside the jurema, passes through the consecration, which would be to be consecrated to the kaboku, to an ancestral primordial inside the jurema, a greater hierarchy inside the jurema, they are the Indians, they are the kabokus, and then comes the more contemporary chain, which would be the masteries,

Masters... contemporary spirits... who regardless of their experience or condition of life... are inside the Jurema to bring us knowledge.

The jurema is different from Umbanda in that it classifies the Baiano, Caboclo, Vaqueiro, Boiadeiro ... no ... the jurema has the mastery. Within the mastery we have the cangaceiros, we have the train mechanics, we have doctors, we have jangadeiros, we have benzedores, we have raizeiros, we have feiticeiros,

We had "cangaceiros" who, commonly in history, we hear about as Curisco himself, as "Pilhão Deitado" and several others, as Zé Faísca, some people have already heard stories and reports of working with Lampião himself, with Maria Bonita herself, so they are spirits from the Northeast who went through all this wisdom, all this science, awakened within the tradition of the Jurema and today they work.

To get to the condition of tomb ... today it is very complex to talk about tomb because each tradition has its own vision of tomb. What would the tomb be within the tradition of the Alliance? A practice ... common ... common ... and frequent. What we know about tomb today ... in the current Jurema ... is a practice that socially says ... that that disciple is ready and fit to take care of other spiritualities ... which is not always true.

He may be predisposed to have the astral journey of the tomb, but time is of spirituality, he may not see anything, he may not gawk at anything, and as someone who has not gawked at something spiritual of his own is able to take care of the spiritual of others. So, currently the tomb gives a social condition,

so that you can be a juremeiro, have your own house, have your own people, have the freedom to do your practices and foundations within the tradition. But it doesn't mean that you are really able to do it... spiritually. Socially, yes. In the tradition of Allende, the act of tomba was done with the use of wine and at least two or three juremeiros in your trust.

you went under the Jurema foot... you put on a mat... you were in spiritual fasting... and this is linked to sexual abdication... to the consumption of alcohol... to the consumption of crustaceans... of pork meat... of negative practices... of witchcraft... so they entered... in a matter of spiritual retreat... and lay down... they used the drinking... and they were there...

with two or three or more juremedis around, emitting energy, singing, vibrating, until he entered a context of trance and spiritual journey. Upon returning from this journey he reported what he had seen or not seen. He could have seen, seen a lot, absorbed a lot, or not. So this practice, to know spirituality, was frequent.

Juremeiro was doing this all the time... all the time... all the time... all the time... so that he could say... "Today I know my master." "My master went from I don't know where... from I don't know how many... he comes from such and such a science... he passed me this... his appearance was like that... and today...

because of this story of the most ancient... it is told... "in the apple of your eye you will see..." "where he was born, where he lived, where he died..." "what he did, how he was, what he passed through, what science he worked with..." and it's not always true. There are people who really can't have this astral journey... even in a medium context. Not everyone has the facility to project the journey. Today the practice of wine, of drinking, has been lost.

So it's not easy for me to put a person through wine to have this astral journey. Today it is much more difficult. Today the astral journey of the tomb is much more difficult. Much more. But basically, he explains, the tomb today would be predisposed to a spiritual journey, where at the end of this spiritual journey you will report to your priest what you saw,

This will be spiritually evaluated by him... who is the oldest... and then... you will receive and will be presented... to your brotherhood... to society... as a juremeiro... as a person who respected your spiritual hierarchy from beginning to end... and fulfilled all the steps that you should have gone through... to at least have security...

to take spirituality from other lives forward... to take care of it... to understand what a enchantment is... how to treat it... how to teach it... how to teach a disciple... how to treat a disciple... how to please spirituality... ancestrality... Do you understand? So all this basically in our current tradition... and if I speak in a general way of Jurema... you will receive it in the act of Sotomba. All this right... all this...

this "outorga" you will receive in the act of the tomb. But the difference between "juremeiro" or "baptized" for the tomb is the screaming. What does not change are the duties. But the difference between "outorga" and "gritante". - Good evening. - Good evening, brother. Thank you for your attention. What is this? I thank you. Well, I was even moved when you reported on the Jurema's issues.

in Alhanda ... as a spiritual goal of our journey in our Catingão. And I was in Recife ... I was in Olinda ... and even my rituals were there. And I realized that the mastery ... the mastery ... is something that dominated the city.

and something that I constantly see in São Paulo too. It's very difficult here in São Paulo to go to a toque and see a caboclo, right? And see a white man, you know, that my family has in common. And the party turns into a party from the master.

I believe in the beheading, the tongue, the stronger step, the smoke, even the tongue. And I wanted to listen to you a little ... until people get to the opening of the jurema ... and after the jurema is opened it seems like a party ... not making it profane ...

That's what I saw today ... I saw it there too ... "Ah ... it's the Caboclo ..." "Okay ..." "It's the old black ... okay ..." "The Jurema Brilhant" ... "Master ... Master ..." it seems that the religion turns into another religion. Yes. In fact, what you are saying makes sense ... from the moment we pass from Pajé Lança to Catimbó ... then we enter the Jurema ... here in Banda ...

European Sharia, shamanism, popular Catholicism... so all of this generates a very strong miscegenation within the Katimbau cult. We worship Exu and Pombogira in a reserved way, but we worship them. Within all the nomenclature of what we call today "Toc de Jurema", it is worshiped, it is reverenced, the old blacks, Exu, Pombogira, all of this is added to our cult. When...

Jurema... apart from his concept of village and coming to the city ... these practices begin to get very strong. Very strong ... very strong ... very strong ... very strong ... very strong ... when the concept of mastery arrives ... which as I said are more contemporary spirits ... they are spirits that you can have an identity ... even for our clothing it is difficult for the guy to get here with a cockade ... with a spear.

with a maraca in the mouth I said ... "ok, I respect it, but our identity is closer to the guy who comes with a hat on his head, who drinks, who smokes, who speaks a more spoiled language, a teacher who has a more affluent conception of sexuality, who speaks in a sweeter, more irreverent, more playful way, so there is a conception of attraction for this treatment.

by this form, by this ritualistic, by this way of presenting oneself. And then, as Ismael has spoken here, today... within the practices of Jurema... the public... when they see these forms presenting themselves... in the act of incorporation... they enter into a state of euphoria... they enter into a state of euphoria. When they see... all that ritualistic... all those colors... that vibration... that touch... that song... they enter into a state of euphoria... and this...

If spiritually they don't have control, they get out of control, and what was a spiritual meeting ends up being a fun for the civilians who came to see. This is a problem that we, the Remeiros, face a lot today, because when people enter a ritual like this, sometimes they are in a state of euphoria,

they end up extrapolating a little. Unfortunately some priests have also extrapolated to this level so that this form is inviting, so that it attracts people, in my opinion, in a negative way, because it treats the Jurema as ...

as a way to attract ease, it even banalizes the issue of drinking inside the jurema. Alcoholic drink, cachaça, cao-in, salão jurema, has its foundation for the enchanted, but in some places it is used as a recreational condition of invitation and to treat the consultants or visitors well.

which within some traditions is not well seen. And it causes this unfettered confusion of people treating the Jurema terrarium, sometimes even as a party. People don't have anything to do, "Oh, there's a Jurema party at the house of Flamengo and such, I'm going there." Why? Because I know there will be a touch, let's sing, let's clap, let's dance and let's drink. And then all that indigenous introduction dies.

dies because the presence of the Caboclo brings serenity, seriousness and indigenous information that is not attractive. It is not attractive ... the Caboclo's step, the way the Caboclo expresses himself, the way the Caboclo presents himself, the way the Caboclo greets people, the way the Caboclo's social behavior is in the farm, in the farmhouse, it is not attractive at all. It is not attractive.

So people today end up going over this ritualistic of the Kaboko, greeting them briefly, because it is even a grudge not to greet them, since within the hierarchy of ancestry it is they who come first. There is no way ... I mentioned this in the previous invitation of Baba Mari and I say it again ... there is no way any of you here

be it white or black, to say that there is not a drop of indigenous blood. It is impossible, it is impossible to say: I am Brazilian but I do not have a drop of indigenous blood. How not? They were the indigenous who were and are owners of our nation, it is our primordial ancestry. So there is no way for us to talk about Jurema,

as a blood, as a medium, as a cult, and not recall that my primordial sexuality there in principle is the Indians. There is no way to skip them, but nowadays people ignore them, they modify their practices, they diminish their ritualistic, so that this more current condition is severed, because it is more attractive and, speaking in a way

even ... of ego ... it is much better ... for me to work with the spirit ... that I identify with him ... that he drinks ... that he smokes ... that he plays ... that he dances ... that he dresses well ... or ... particularly I think he dresses well. Another discussion that I have raised a lot within the Jurema is the question of clothing. I see masters ... masters ... and masters ...

who in life did not have the social condition to wear a suit, for example, or to wear a dress armed with gloves, with a gargantilla, with bracelets, with a little bag, they did not have that. It is a European social construction that in Brazil did not work, it did not fall. So I will quote Maria do Acais.

an Indian woman, 30 years old, Maria do Acácio died in 1934, the second Maria do Acácio. Imagine a woman who died in 1934, let's put the 30s, imagine a woman from the interior of Paraíba, from a city that today has 22 thousand inhabitants, a woman who was located in an indigenous and rural area, to present herself today,

spiritually with a rolled dress, with a wig, with gloves ... I completely escape the social construction of this enchanted at the time. So... if I put this outfit, this dress on this enchanted ... I socially degrade him ... his history and structure ... I will automatically be passing on an unexistent identity to him ... to those who will see ...

and I'm hurting the ancestor again. I'm imposing on him a garment, an outfit that was not part of him. It's the same thing that gives a slap to a 35-year-old man. He will say... "Well, this doesn't serve me anymore." "This doesn't serve me." In her case, she will say... "If it doesn't serve me, it never served me." So today this is very common within the Jurema.

I work with a spiritual guide, I work with two spiritual guides in the conception of mastery, one is called Master Canito and the other is called Benedito Fumaça. Canito was a jagunço, a man from the sertão, firm, brute, from a difficult time, he entered some bands of cangaço, deserter, you can imagine the social structure that this man brings.

Benedito Fumaça was a train driver, he commanded a "catita", as he likes to call it, from Rio Grande do Norte to Mata Norte, from Pernambuco, he crossed from Rio Grande do Norte, Paraíba, to Pernambuco. So, he is a man who, within his work, within his profession, demanded courage. Benedito Fumaça, in numerous situations, needed to be a man outside the law,

he went against the looters, it was very common at the time to put pieces of logs to divert the train, to derail the train, and the train was looted, so when he saw that, he had to be a very brave man at the time, and that's out of the law, unfortunately, at some point he needed to kill, he had to kill, he had to fight, there are reports

and Benedito Fumaça... some people say... the Maserati say that he had already killed the Indian... had already fought the Indian... because of his cap, which he loved so much... so these are stories... that have passed down to our ancestors... and show and demonstrate the social construction of a man like that.

I work with Benedito Fumaça today and I can say that structurally he is not a man of any kind, he is rude, he is firm in his words, he has a common habit of drinking alcohol, cachaça, because it was a recreation for a man who was there inside the locomotive, and you refer to the mind of a man like that, of how he lived, of how he behaved,

of what he thought was right... of... of social teaching itself. Today we have a lot to learn from them... and they with us. Master Canito... pay attention to the construction of this man... Master Canito does not work with me with a regatta shirt and a bermuda shirt. And once questioned... my brother questioned why... he said... "In my time this was samba canção, it was cirula."

the man was in his underwear for us now. So he sees it as a form of disrespect to him and to the women in the precinct. One thing that for us is simple today ... the bermuda ... the regatta ... it's simple. He says that the regatta ... what we wear today ... was the shirt underneath the button shirt.

Do you understand? So you can look and say... "No... this is... this is... this is bullshit." Working in Bermuda is bullshit. But for his condition, as a enchanted who returns with all the three ways, customs of the time, this is a affront. He is in a dunghill and he is disrespecting him and the people in the place. So I, as a disciple, knowing his social condition, have to respect him. I have to respect him.

This is structural... both on his part and on my part. I have to respect it, I have to understand it. Just as he will understand me. Does anyone have any other questions? Good evening. Regarding the so-called super-entheological, this super-entheological is within a spiritual context, but there is also the chemical one. I would like to understand a little, for example,

a drink that has DMT, for it to activate the DMT, it would need, in the case of the elastin, for example, to have a inhibitor of a certain substance. That's why some people use, wrongly now I'm talking, this Arganacil, etc. to activate it. I would like to know if in the traditional culture of the system, this activation is also done spiritually.

by Maracau, by Mars ... is it a spiritual activation ... or does the Daino Lema himself ... already have the power to make this substance ... entheogenic ... reach where it wants to reach? Great question. Within the Federal University of Paraíba ... I studied the science of religions ... and I was once invited by the Department of Neuroscience of Behavior ... to study DMT. And I, of course, embraced the cause and went to study.

the wine of Jurema, when in fermentation state, it can naturally activate the DMT. But the use, or rather, the effect of DMT found in the wine of Jurema, it is very fast in our body. It would be a transit...

and at most three or four minutes ... that's why there were other dosages and dosages and dosages ... that were given by the Pajé ... so that the disciple's transit was satisfactory ... and that he could get something of teaching. The Ruda da Síria is placed in the wine of the Jurema ... so that the effect is prolonged ...

"potentialized"... you know... so people were afraid... they said... "No... we're going to put the route of Syria... because then... we will prolong the transit... the chemical effect of DMT will be prolonged in our body... and then what did I end up discovering... at the time... some chemists... took the DMT... and turned it into crystals... DMT crystals... this was done in an illegal way...

and we studied at the time about it ... that people used DMT crystals in the cachimbo ... with black smoke. And the DMT was so strong, so concentrated that it burned the neurons ... in a condition that they could not regenerate. So it was a very strong mental damage.

That's when some people cross what could be for the spiritual, something that has never been used in a recreational way, and when it takes these elements in a disinformed, unconfirmed and very strong way, it causes these damages. Within the Jurema, if you take this your trip, within the Jurema we have a very interesting story of a master who drank wine and could not return.

which is the story of Mestre Carlos. Even the oldest people used to say Mestre Carlos and Mestre Carlos the boy. Mestre Carlos, a winegrower, had inside his seara, inside his wine, the wine of the root. And his son takes this wine, goes under the foot of the winegrower, with all the sacred ingredients, and makes use of this wine.

but then, as we said, inside the village, the priest was there to wake us up from the trance. He took a very strong amount and was unable to return from the trance.

Then there is a song in the Jurema that says... "Mexica, Luzerbo, Mexico, learned without teaching itself, spent three days fallen on the trunk of the Jurema, when he got up, he was ready to work." When he got up, spiritually speaking, the spirit got up, he was ready to work.

It happens that the older ones say that... when he was lost in the forest... his father didn't know where he was... his father opened a table to find out where his son was... after three days... and he has been working... he is already incorporating... so it was... what we call death... we call it enchantment... enchantment... he didn't die... he was enchanted...

He had an extraordinary journey so strong that his spirit, his soul, his soul left the body and is still being cultivated within the sacred grams. But one story to prove that in a wrong way

And outside the spiritual context of spiritual responsibility, the wine of Jurema can be harmful. In the context of what you have just said, some people who suffer from psychiatric disorders and even need to use medications to regulate the chemistry of the brain,

Is there any contradiction in the use of this theodic to these people? Is this discussed, addressed, what is the purpose of these characters? Yes, yes. The use of the wine of the Jurema for those who have some kind of psychological problem, it is ...

it must be, in a responsible way, braided. Inside the jorema we have other types of herbs, of root shells, that we use for people who have psychological problems, like mulungu itself, which can be used in the form of tea for people who have insomnia,

well... a series of sadness, anguish, any kind of psychological problem. So Toyope, the cacique, in the time of the village, he observed people, and that indigenous person who had some kind of disorder, at the time, we are talking about the time of the villages, and we are talking about a tradition that can emerge from our context of society, but they were excluded and sometimes even killed.

Those who came with a physical or mental disability ... they were excluded. Was there already this idea of mental disorder? Yes. Yes, at that time we ... But at that time it already existed ... and even under a condition of curses.

of curse. So they understood that that person went through this context and was cursed. In some villages, for a long time, the condition of the woman who had twins, she had to choose one, because she believed that the other had no soul, no soul, and could be possessed by some bad spirit. And he was buried alive.

This is history ... this is ... it's hard for me to be a juremeiro, but it's history ... it's ancestral. I looked for it, I studied a lot and I lived it to understand this context. So ... anyone who had any kind of psychological disorder ... he was away ... often abandoned in the middle of the woods ... even because many disorders were only perceived after adolescence ... when that young man ... would go through a ritual process to become a warrior ... to hunt ...

to build his family... and then it was seen that he had no conditions... he did not enter the capacity... he did not learn... so... when he felt any kind of deficiency... and when he went through several processes of medicine... of drinking... and of spiritual search... and when he saw that he actually had a problem... he was totally excluded.

totally excluded. Some villages today have this custom, I had access to some people who went to the Amazon and were the most restricted places that have the least accessed villages and even today they have these practices and they can't do anything, they see the practice but because it is a cultural issue, an ancestral, they have to respect it.

So children born with a disability in their hands, in their feet, in atrophy, they are unfortunately safe because they believe that in the future they will suffer, because they will not be able to hunt, they will not be able to marry, they will not be able to have children, they will not be able to walk. And, of course, in our society today it is easy to access a wheelchair, an amulet, any kind of...

and I'm adhering to the mobility of a disabled person to be improved, but inside the village there was no such condition, there was no such visibility, and even today I believe that even the villages that accept today, imagine, our villages don't even have basic rights, and who will have an advice, mobility, there is a social work in relation to mental disability,

So unfortunately, because it is an ancestral practice today, I say unfortunately because for our society this is very strong. And even I, as a juremeiro, as a grandson of an indigenous, I feel it. Our European education, Christian, which was rooted in our nation, well known all over the world, is very strong and passes this condition to us.

I think you can answer in one question. We in the band, the band that I always have contact with, with some expoentes that came from Portugal, but were very famous in the band, like Zé Berim, Maria Padilha, Luiz Ferreira and also the band of Mirambá.

There are several myths about these curas within the Umbanda. Especially when outside the Umbanda, the women do not go outside, they go inside, they appear more than in the world.

narrative about life and other questions. I wanted to ask you, as a good guy, as a good person, if you could tell us something, for example, how do you look at these figures that are going to be born in the world of the

will still be really spirits, but for a cultural reason. They ended up having a name, but they are not the same as the one from the catimó, they are not.

are, in fact, a little more ... given the geolocation ... given the expansion of the plant ... and you find a place to be ... even if it is completely different ... from what you did there ... for example, you have a martini ... that's it. Anyway ... that's a question ... Great ... great question. I really like to get into this topic ...

When we talk about Pelintra, I usually call the term Pelintra a "alpunha". I am Lucas Souza, aka Pelintra. Ex-Juremeiro Gabriel, aka Pelintra. What do you mean Lucas? Let's go. In the construction of the catimbó, we have Antônio Pelintra, Antônio Preto, Zé Pelintra, Zé dos Anjos,

Zé de Santana... anyway... there are several who go away... who arrive at the terreiro saying... "It's me, Zé Pilintra... it's me, Zé Pilintra..." and many say... "It's me, Zé Pilintra... I'm Zé de Santana... it's me, Zé Pilintra... I'm Zé dos Anjos... it's me, Zé Pilintra... I'm Antônio de Preto Valente... it's me, Zé Pilintra... I'm Antônio Pilintra..." So... Pilintra became a cunha .

Within Umbanda we know the entities that are presented as Pelintra, but historically Lucas was too lazy to study. And in Umbanda I saw that there is one ... I don't remember exactly who the author was ... who called the difference even in the way of writing, because in Jurema we know it as Pelintra.

Inajurema Zé Pilintra... not band... Zé Pilintra... I don't remember... I don't remember well who the actor was...

the author who made this difference. And then he started, he made a trip to Rio de Janeiro and started to get all that identity of the pilintra, of the baiano, of the white tern, of the tie, of the bohemia, of the scoundrel, which was on top, because when we talk about José Pilintra in Umbanda, there's no way we can take this stereotype.

There is no way we can take this structure from him. Zé Pelintra, Zé Pelintra in Jurema has a completely different structure. An archaic language, rough, sometimes rough, ignorant, sometimes playful, but a game aimed at malice, a very strong regional custom, so the very severe use of... tricks,

a strong introduction to the issue of drinking... of sexism... it's sexist... it's a sexist figure...

It is the man who loves the woman but without knowing if she is married or not ... it is the man who says the way the woman has to behave ... or what man has to be a man ... do you understand? It is all that structure of the Northeast that we can see at that time and we see it today. If we study a little and see the structure of the Northeast within its most distant from society, we will have that structure there because it is cultural.

It goes from father to son, from father to son, from father to son, and so on. So the social construction of the two is completely different. Some authors, researchers, anthropologists, even see the difference in the writing of the name. And in the ritualistic of the entajurema, as you said, some traditions believe that it does not go down anymore. Zé Pelintra, José de Alencar, the first, anyway, there is so much information,

about who would have been the first ... who is the first Zé Pilintra ... what is the name of the first Zé Pilintra ... and some traditions ... in fact ... as you said ... I do not believe that he descends more. I believe that he is a spirit that has already given birth to all his ... all his ... his direction here on Earth ... he has already worked ... he has evolved ... and he does not work anymore. There are traditions that say the opposite ... that he still descends ... that he still works ... that he still comes ...

My tradition says that, in fact, the first pilintra, the one who pulls all this fame of his inside the catamboa, is no longer present, but is still cultivated. But he left a legacy. Pilintra, Zé dos Anjos, Antônio Preto, Antônio Pilintra, Zé de Santana and several others who are within the conception of Zé and of the pilintra cunha. So, answering your question, that's basically it.

I have another one here. I'll ask. You talked about taking an interesting subject ... you said ... that he would have finished his spiritual development and would no longer be present ... now, with the past, he would be more present. In the Cardinal ... does this notion of development still exist ...

Yes, in Katimbor we are giving as a religion that believes in spiritual cities, that believes in spiritual evolution, so if my ancestral, if this ancestral, if this enchanted, is destined to what he comes, wants to work, wants to help, wants to provide knowledge, wants to provide service, wants to provide assistance to all of us who request it, logically within the conception of spirituality, of spiritual city, he will gulgá,

growth and spiritual evolution. One hour he will be inside spiritual cities that will not have access to our incorporation. He will be there, he will be there to help us, he will be there to help other spirits that will enter these spiritual cities, but they will not have access to our incorporation.

basically. But he is there ... we can access him ... we can worship him ... and we should ... and it is not because he is not present in incorporation that we should ignore him. The spiritual journey continues ... but no longer incorporating. So we believe in this question of evolution and many of them talk about it ...

It is common to hear within the salons of the Casas de Jurema even a term called "galardão" ... "he is drinking galardão" or a master who has a lot of galardão who talks about the question of affection, of being very evolved. Some masters are already in a stage of not drinking anymore in the matter, of breaking vices,

Do you understand? So there is this conception of evolution ... even because if it did not exist ... we would be disciples forever. But we, while incarnated, go through a process of evolution ... baptized, consecrated, cemented ... until we reach the tomb ... and after the tomb we travel spiritually ... gulping, gulping, gulping ... and spiritually in the same way. We went through this search to be holy here on Earth ... so that if ... by hour ... after our passing ...

we were or were called to one of these spiritual cities... we have knowledge to pass on. Some people put Christian theology... that they are inside these cities because they sinned... they were sinners... and they made mistakes... they are to be paid... others do not believe basically in that. This is a structure that is still quite discussed. But the question of evolution is very common... and it is believed a lot in the Jurema.

I think the other guy is there. Good evening. Good evening. I have two questions ... about cities ... in Almeida ... what would be the idea of ​​high cities ... and the question is ...

Let's go.

At the beginning of our conversation I talked about some kingdoms... and I mentioned the names of some plants. These plants will be portals to spiritual cities that are countless and... I believe that no one can say how many spiritual cities there are... and the name of each one. We know some, but anyway... so...

When we talk about spiritual cities it would be this ... I'm used to ... in a scientific way ... I've studied the sciences and religions ... and I need to ... in this way ... talk and explain the Jurema in an easy way ... it's the same condition of a city ... imagine a city ... called Jurema ... imagine that there is a city called Jurema ... and ... that would be the kingdom.

Okay? And the spiritual cities would be the neighborhoods. So inside the city of Jurema there is... such and such neighborhood, such and such neighborhood, such and such neighborhood, such and such neighborhood. Within these neighborhoods there will be a noble neighborhood, there will be a middle class neighborhood, and there will be a heavy neighborhood. Do you understand? So basically, in a chula way,

but that from a simple understanding would be basically this. We have reigns and due to the spiritual evolution of this spirit it will be in a city ... not as evolved as a more evolved one. Remembering that our conception of evolution is very vague ... our conception of evolution is very vague ... sometimes I avoid using this term ... less evolved ...

because for us evolution is a whole structure of education, of indoctrination, of what is socially accepted, but for our time this is something very different. Taking the trip of Nego Gerson, Nego Gerson is one of the entities that is present in the catimba, but not only in it, because several traditions of our Northeast and North

they deal with en...cantado. Ney Gugés is a enchantado. You go to the Encantaria, to the Caudal de Maranhão, Ney Gugés is there. You go to the Cátima-Girema, Ney Gugés is there. If my memory is not wrong, Tamborimina, Ney Gugés is there. So Ney Gugés is a structure of enchantado. It is an enchantado that... I repeat again...

Being in a tradition that culticizes ancestrality, he is culticized. He is called, he is revered, and if he is a spiritual energy, he is enchanted, he can be here at this exact moment. Now, if I am a jurema, if I know how to call him, if I know how to reverence him, if I need his help and I call him here, here is not a house, basically, in jurema.

It's a spiritual house, but not a Jurema's house. So you will say, "But Nebo Jérsey was there, what is he doing there?" That's what he answers, he is where he is worshiped. So in the Maranhão Kondá he is worshiped, in the Enkantaria he is worshiped, in the Jurema he is worshiped. If I tell you that I know deep down the structure of Nebo Jérsey, I will be lying. I know that many say Nebo Jérsey, Prince of New Guinea, the old black, the sorcerer,

but I don't know, in fact, beyond this structure, this identity that they pass on to him, what would Nego Gesso have to offer. I don't know if he has deep knowledge, deep knowledge about Evas, about... anyway, about spiritual direction, I don't know, in fact, to explain to you who Nego Gesso was deep down. But what I can say is that he is, just like Subamba, just like...

so many others... that are in our dilemma... in a way free in some cults that are part of the Northeast... and the North. Because it takes fame... there were scriptures that went a lot... Pilintra... the Pilintra there is... from Cabo de Santo Agostinho in Alhandra... where people put it as...

from Alhandra... I'm from Alhandra... but it's because simply the pilintra... it went through all this process... all this... all this region. There from Pernambuco... from Cabo de Santo Agostinho to Alhandra.

and who knows about other states. I don't have a correct and affirmative background of how Pimenta behaved, where he settled in that time, where he walked, what he did, anyway. So these structures are very widespread here in our Northeast.

They walked a lot, they created roots in other states, they absorbed other practices, they were men who were known even within the spiritual structure itself, and then ... come on ... I'm from Alhanda, from Paraíba, but I brought here a little bit about the structure of Alhanda and a little bit about the story of Maria do Acácio, I spoke here vaguely. So you already absorb this, that you already take from here in São Paulo and already take to ... I don't know ... the south of the country, to Minas,

and then all this structure when it arrives there ... if you are a person who wants to root that tradition there ... it will be rooted ... it will be cultivated and all that knowledge will begin to be passed on ... perpetuated ... when you least expect it ... a structure that came out of the little cities of the interior of Alhandra ... will be spread throughout Brazil. This is the case of Jurema today. This is the case of Jurema. But it would be basically that.

Good evening. Could be, yes. Malu Guinho... I'm even suspicious of talking about Malu Guinho... Malu Guinho... I was talking about him... we were talking a little earlier today... Malu Guinho is a very firm figure within the Jurema...

and even within our Northeast because it is part of a whole identity that goes far beyond spirituality and religion. There were several Malunguinhos. Malungo, a road companion, who dominated the northern forest of Goiânia, the municipality of Goiânia is already extreme with Paraíba, up to Beberibe. So they were men who ... again ... Malunguinho is a alcunha, okay?

They said... "I'm José Francisco." "I'm Malunguinho." Why am I Malunguinho? Because I'm adopting this identity... of warrior, of man, of fighting for my village. They said... João Bamba, João Pataca, João Batista... they were names of Malunguinhos. Historically recorded there were 19 men... searched by... by... the tyrant at the time... and it was not common at that time to offer money through the head of a black man.

and a slave. But Malunguinho was offered. Why? Because he caused harm, he caused harm. He was treated like a bandit at the time. Malunguinho used to set fire to the canary before the saffron, to give harm. Today in the Northeast when there is a burning of the can, when those straws fall, people say "Malunguinho is falling". Ah, there are a lot of Malunguinho's falling in the houses. But it's because people knew ...

"Is the fire burning?" I said: "Yes, it's burning." So they were warriors, quilombolas, already part of the miscegenation of the black as an indigenous. And then, let's see, if I'm indigenous, I'm an ancestral culture.

I am black. I worship ancestors. Malu Guinho was an ancestor of mine who fought for the liberation of my people, for the liberation of my cult, for my freedom, and he was a firm, virile, warrior man. He will come back. He will be worshiped. But look, if I, in my ancestral work, worship the bravest warriors, to protect my reunion,

It is the conception of the Exu within Umbanda, let's say, within the Kanomblé, it is the one who comes to clean, to generate communication, to break the impurities, to remove all negativity. So, within the Jurema, before, it was always cult, the Kaboku-Shinukeiro, King Yoruba, King Kanindé, King Pinambá, Seu Pé da Negra,

Trincaferro and several other strong, strong, firm caboclos. Why not? It is these men, these energies that come to protect our land, our land, our work. As Malunguinho became very famous, and look, look, he takes two important states there, Centro Oculto and Ajurema. He divides between Paraíba and Pernambuco and basically takes all the North Forest in Pernambuco.

So all these two states have the figure of Malunguinho as a warrior, a truncator who protected the people, the villages and the blacks. So let's cultivate him. He will be our defender. If he was in life our defender, in post-death, in his enchantment, he will return as our defender. And then today Malunguinho is cultivated at the beginning in the Jurema Agiru.

At the beginning of a Jurema's work, Malunguinho is sung in the conception that he comes to break, to take the embarrassments. You take a Malunguinho song and do this.

So the whole request is for Malunguinho to break

"Drop it, put it on the ground, protect it." Alludes to Malunguinho with several men, being inside the forest to protect his people. All this structure of Malunguinho is like a protector. And that was happening. But in Rio Grande do Norte, in one of the traditions of Rio Grande do Norte, take this bias that I'm talking about, Malunguinho didn't get there.

Who is our trunk Kaboku? Who is our closest Indian who was a warrior? King Kanindé. So, in Rio Grande do Norte, it is very common that King Kanindé is the first Kaboku to be revered when a Jurema meeting is held. Because it is the conception and connotation of the brave Indian Kaboku who was a defender, who was a warrior, who protected the village. Today, Malunguinho is within the sacred Jurema cult,

especially Pernambuco and Paraíba as a very well-known and revered entity ... but... there is a point of ignorance about Malunguinho. People say ... "Malunguinho is the Exu of the Jurema." But because... relatively he is as a protector ... as protection ... but ... using this term "Exu" ... "Malunguinho" ...

can cause doubts, because in various traditions of Kimbanda that deal directly with the Exus and Pombojira, you will not see the Malunguinho Exu. So it is important to emphasize: Malunguinho is called "Pido" and called "Exu" in the Jurema because he came with this conception of protecting, breaking, defending, and making the profession of the cult. But not all people will agree with the term Exu.

I understand that it was a way to treat Malunguinho, to expose Malunguinho as a defender, to put him at the door, to defend the field, but today the forms of incorporation structures, of Malunguinho's work, would be in the conception of mastery, of master and of caboclo. These are the denominations of manifestations that I know of Malunguinho, so far.

Any other questions? Good evening, Master. Good evening. I heard you talk about the cosmic vision of the Pachorema regarding reincarnation. You mentioned that the Location God suffers from the Catholic influence due to forced characterization, but also suffers from the influence of a European one... That's it.

I mean, even if it is not a message of the Confucianism, or the person who spoke about the spirit earlier, who believes in reincarnation. So I wanted to understand what is the vision of the catibó about reincarnation, or if it is a dogmatic, right? I mean, if you need to believe in reincarnation to be able to do the catibó. No, it doesn't necessarily have to be that size.

in reincarnation to worship Katimboa. Even because when we talk about Katimboa we don't talk about a solid construction like this pillar here, a single pillar. There are several pillars within what we call Katimboa and some do not believe in incarnation.

but the tradition of Allende believes in a condition of reincarnation, and given that this evolution that was questioned by my brother is precisely for that. I was a man who didn't always walk correctly, my social structure made me a carrasco, a killer, a sorcerer,

you understand? And I am in the spiritual world so that I can evolve, so that I can learn that on Earth I was not a good person, but I am a man who has great knowledge, who has a vision, who understands my sign, and today I will work so that my sign is not yours.

I will be gouging out evolution, evolution, I will be understanding myself through your medium work, your medium work, your medium work, to the point where I gouging out the greatest, the most evolved spiritual cities, where right there I am redirected.

This is a structure that some traditions of Jurema believe in, especially the tradition of Alhanda, because it has a strong Christian influence. In 1932 the Acais Chapel was built, a chapel that even today those who visit Alhanda will see. At the margins of the 034 PB there is a church created by Maria do Acais. Maria do Acais was and is one of the most significant names in the Catimbao area. She never went, there is no doubt about it.

She didn't create a house of the church ... she didn't create anything physical except the church. So you say ... "Gee ..." So the Christian conception for these people was very important. It was of utmost importance. At that time they were forbidden to enter the church ... because if they entered the church ... "Hey, get out of here ... you are a sorcerer, you are a pagan, you are not welcome here." So ... as Akais was an indigenous community ... around there ... and that added many gremlins ... they created their own church ... and went to worship there.

but this condition of reincarnation is not something totally explicit in all traditions. There are traditions that do not believe in these ways, but then I ask a question to some people who say ... "What sense would it make for a spirit to be working and continue working forever?" What would this conception be? To be there forever? Do you understand? Why?

who ... who destined this ... this ... this imposition ... who imposed this ... that he will always stay there. Then comes ... what I again usually talk about ... "Alcunha." Come on. I work with Canito ... an entity called Zé de Canito ... or Canito do Fogo. I go to my astral journey and he says ... "My name is José Pereira Júnior." He is also from Canito.

Then he went to travel to Australia and the pen said ... "My name is Arthur Gabriel Ribeiro." "Wait a minute ... no ..." "Lukas fell ... he said his name was ... Paul ..." "I fell for the same master ..." "And the name is another?" "But the pen of Luka when it comes ... it comes with the thumb of the trunk ..." "Mine comes normal ..." "There must be something wrong there ..." Then we go ... what some traditions also put is the condition of the alcunha ... in Umbanda I would say phalange ...

Alcunha. They are spirits that even Canito himself saw this spirit, from the same experience, from the same structure, "get here, to the spiritual city, you will work, you will introduce yourself with my name, with this structure, with this way of working, but you are this comrade there, I am me." Right? "We are here, Flamengo soccer team, Vasco team."

Each one has a name, but they are in favor of the same thing, using the same uniform, presenting themselves as Flamengo players and so on. And the flow follows and the team is to win. So, within this conception, that first one already evolves, and there's the second, and there's the third, and there's the fourth, and there's the fifth, the fifth.

the sixth canito ... remembering ... I know this will be recorded ... this is not an absolute truth ... there is no absolute truth in the Jurema cult. I believe that in nothing in life there is absolute truth. These are visions and visions and visions ... of traditions and traditions. This is a vision that I particularly believe because it makes sense. Just imagine ... I work with a canito ... there is only one canito ... I'm working with him here ... and my comrade there in Alem is working with him there too.

Okay? Spiritual we are talking about something beyond our understanding. But it doesn't make much sense... an energetic structure... which is an anima... which is a soul... which is a singularity... to divide into particles... to be able to work on a conception of... it's not radiation... it's incorporation.

Do you understand? So... I particularly believe in this premise and it follows the vision of reincarnation. They are spirits that that main spirit grouped, indoctrinated within the spiritual cities and put to work. There are several Masters who say... "Who pulled me to the cities was Zé Pilintra." "Who pulled me to the cities was Junqueiro."

who pulled me to the cities was Simbamba... and here I am... I am such and such... I am Cicrano... I am Beltrano... you know? Not to mention that every day... working in the Science Foundation we discover a new master's degree. It is very vast... the conception of names and alkunas that are inside the master's degree. So... through my tradition... there is... this issue of reincarnation.

You talk a lot about humans ... the master, the love ... but always about a human figure. In your opinion, when you are imagining non-humans and they are in the outside world, what is the vision of non-human figures? Not exactly, not exactly enchanted, but non-human spiritual beings. So far no non-human being has been revealed to me. We have spiritual structures,

as you said, not enchanted, but there is no way to quote a not enchanted. I will give an example, within folklore, like the "comate florizinha" or the "curupira", which would be nothing more, nothing less than "guardiões da mata". In candomblé we will have the "aroni",

the spirit of the forest, the one who must be revered to enter and to seek the Elves so that they do not cause confusion or lose the damage to the one who enters the forest. In Jurema it is the same thing. We have the Matiflozinho, we have the Curupira, who is revered at the entrance of the forest. When we enter just doing our jobs, they are revered. There is a tradition that cultures like Matiflozinho, there is a tradition that cultures like Curupira, there is a tradition that says: "I am the owner of the forest."

And... I must say... this... this way of offering is very much like what is done for the San and for the Orani. It's the smoke, it's the cachaça, it's the two souls, it's the currency, it's the honey, it's food, fruits... you know? Always in the condition of asking for permission so that the forest, even if it is a forest, is safe and that it does not attract any negativity.

I didn't even ask that question ... and then you incorporate ... or not ... or are they just guards? Some say they incorporate ... until today I haven't had that experience ... I haven't even seen ... I haven't even witnessed that experience ... because they are spirits of the forest ... who ... who enchant themselves inside the forest itself ... in a physical structure of the forest ... so ... in my tradition they don't incorporate ... the flower forest ... the curupira itself ... they don't incorporate ... they are guardians ...

They are guardians of the forest ... spirits that are there to maintain order ... or cause disorder in those who enter with the same intention. Do you understand? The interpretation of the concept of integration of the third world ... is that the people learn from their ancestors ... the relationship between father and son ... and so on ... there is a great difference between the two.

Look... this is a very strong touch... because yes... there is the conception of sin, what is wrong... there is even a conception of how to behave socially.

A priest from Jurema receives ... by his own spirituality ... how he should walk in the world. There is a book in Jurema that says ... apart from the book ... "In the river of San Francisco I dived and went deep" "I went to learn science to be able to walk in the world" When he says he went to learn science to be able to walk in the world ... he says ... "I went to seek spiritual knowledge to be a person"

so as not to do stupid things, so as not to hurt others, so as not to become a bandit, a thug, a liar, a bad temper, you know? So within the ajurema there is this structure that gives us a severity, I just say it happens a lot, because today we usually see some entities in the ajurema complaining because men wear earrings,

My brother here is the president of Jurema and he is not here. They wear earrings ... so why? It was a social construction of the time that they thought was correct ... and they want to spend their current times. As much as we know that this does not influence anything in the character of anyone ... tattoos, piercings, earrings ... anyway ... it does not influence the social structure of the character of anyone. But within Jurema there is the condition of sin ... of what is right ... of what is wrong ...

of what should be said or what should not be said ... of behaviors that can be added to the cult ... or in your social life ... you imagine ... I always make this analogy ... there is no ... within a question of breaking the barrier of hypocrisy ... how can I see a priest ... my priest ... in a person who is out of the field is a coward ...

Do you understand? As much as we want to judge the spiritual only, it is impossible not to observe also the social conduct of that person. So inside the jurema passes this condition of sin, of error, of what is right and what is wrong, not only so that the spiritual has success,

but so that he, within the condition of an idealizer, of a priest, of a godfather, also has a posture to guide his disciples not only when they are incorporated or when they are in spiritual work. From here,

I have a friend there, Gabriel, who is my son-in-law, he is also a juremeiro, I have a brother here who is a juremeiro, and they will be able to affirm, not only like me, that within their construction as juremeiros, they are there to guide, not only in spiritual conditions,

Some people are in the course of life... in their maturing process... which is constant in our life... and they are going through situations that go beyond spirituality... and they know that condition... if not quickly solved... it will interfere with that person's spirituality. It will interfere. I'm going to use a bias here that is very delicate. The use of drugs. The use of drugs in the dilemma.

I observe a disciple of mine using drugs. He can come to me and say... "No, Padrinho, it's just a little base." But if I socially do not explain to him what that spiritually reflects in the Jurema, he will not evolve. So let's go. Today he has a base, tomorrow he takes 10, 15 grams and then he is stuck. The lack of structure and direction of what is right and what is wrong,

within the tradition that it is found... allowed this to happen... and that will directly influence the spiritual evolution of the body. Directly. Even dealing with the energy issue. If you take this cachimbo... and I read this cachimbo... here inside... here in this wood... in this cachimbo... there will be an energetic recognition of what Lucas worked on. Of Lucas' energy. Isn't that right? So when we talk about drugs... whether it is...

and Lista... or... Lícia... we are talking about energy... it's a exchange of energy... he is receiving... and he as a medium... as a spiritualist... as a juremeiro... as a disciple... there will be that exchange... there will be that exchange... and there is no way that exchange will not influence his spiritual life. This is a discernment of right and wrong... of sin... because sin is the wrong... it is only the conception of the wrong... of what is wrong. This conception of right and wrong within the jurema exists... and...

I can say that most of the time it is taught in an involuntary way. Involuntary. And in my adolescence I saw several people who were about to make mistakes and the entity itself came and said... "My subject is making this mistake, this mistake, this mistake..." and that impressed me. Because it is difficult for us in psychological sobriety to affirm our mistakes, our defects, our sins.

but when in spiritual trance, at some moments, of the enchantment of wanting to do the matter, the disciple re-encounters himself spiritually, he does that. He exposes all errors so that he is socially exposed and the person has the obligation to seek a solution for that or stop doing it, anyway. But if I have a problem, I can't help it, I can't help it, I can't help it.

Yes.

Yes... for example... I am also a priest of Candomblé... and the practices do not prohibit each other... they are different... there are Candomblé priests who prohibit... who believe that there is a prohibition... but the Jurema... on the contrary... there is no problem... we are cultists of energies of nature... we are cultists of elemental energies...

there is no problem for you as a beginner ... as a novice ... as a mother of a saint ... within Candomblé ... if you start jurema ... there is no problem. Of course ... there are some EOIs that you have ... as an example ... the use of honey ...

it must be indicated and spoken to the priest so that this does not interfere with both energies, of course. I already know people who, within the living condition, within candomblé, have honey, but in the practice of Jurema, there is no physical or spiritual effect.

So I can't say this in depth, but I know that the practice of both does not interfere knowing how to deal with it, logically, even because while candomblé exists we are culting Orixá, Vodun, and while Juremeiro we are culting what the candomblé himself calls "Egum", which would be spirits, deified or not, enchanted or not, they are spirits, they are souls of people who have lived, of ancestors,

So ... as a culturist I usually have several ... even Gabriel is also a priest in Candomblé ... I am a priest in Candomblé and I have been working in the Jurema since ... I don't know ... 11 years old ... 12 years old ... I'm deep inside the terrarium ... today I'm 26 and I've never had any problem with these two structures. There is no problem at all. I would like to thank everyone who came here today ... especially Master Lucas ...

just to observe my house, a pungna of tradition. So I always sought to bring someone to discuss traditions, someone who knows the tradition as it was at its root. So talking about jurema, I have to talk about Alhandra, I have to talk about Paraíba, indigenous, from the Northeast, I can't talk about jurema, catimbó, in São Paulo, it wasn't born here.

She came here with the immigrants from the destinos. And our rescue work from this house, houses with the ideals of Master Lucas. I've been to Alhandra several times and I only met him in 2019, because no one there also speaks of Catimbó as he speaks. Already mixed with orixá, mixed with several things that I didn't want to find.

I found a lady there, Mrs. Zita, who has the same thought as he, to find in the Jurema the search for the Master, the Master, the Caboclo and the Caboclo. And that's what we can offer in today's lecture.

so I'm going to ask Lucas to please make three songs just for the people not to leave without singing a little bit. I'm going to... since we're going to sing a little bit about Jureme... Let's go, let's speed up. I invite my disciples Gabriel and Suzana to help me here in the paillinha, my brother who is here too, who is a juremeiro, so let's go sing a...

at least two stories... let's remember Malunguinho... who was the one who braved... who fought so that we could be here today openly talking about Jurema... so that we could be here even alive... talking about this tradition... so...

I'm going to enter with my caboclo. I'm going to enter with my caboclo.

It's from the Malunguim river, I walk against the river. The mountain pass, the golden pass, I will die. The Malunguim river will make me a prisoner.

foreign

♪

And on the street of Macaxeira, the 7-seater closed down. Or the smoke, on the contrary, that Benedito sent. Telegram runs on the wire and the steam runs in the fire.

♪

I went to pass in the lane, I don't have the pain of passing, I'm afraid of what comes on the road, I'm afraid that the train will come there, I'm afraid of what comes on the road, I don't have the pain of passing, I'm afraid of what comes on the road,

Thank you again to everyone for the presence, the opportunity to speak of Ulema. For me it is a pleasure, an honor to be here again in the house of Convento Baba Mário, to see some friends, some brothers, and to be with the children again.

between friends, between juremeiros friends, who carry the tradition forward, who spread it, who show it, who have served the sacred jurema in Paulistana lands, this is very important to me, because when I get here, it's from this people that I need.

of this identity, of this welcoming that I need. So I thank everyone again who listened, who asked, who questioned, and I hope that the tradition of the Jurema is increasingly being served in serious spaces like this one, which seeks knowledge and to seek these traditions again, to give them visibility, so thank you very much.