Harrisburg City Council Work Session 11/19/2024

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e e

and the time is 530 p.m. I would like to

call our work session to

order Mr trale could you please call the

role Miss

Daniels Miss DAV

present Miss green present Mr Jones here

miss

rolls present Mr Rodriguez present Miss

Bowers present thank

you we will uh begin with the end in

mind this evening we're going to start

with the work of the Public Works

committee peray the request of the

director so we're going to honor that

request so I will defer to to our Public

Works committee chair councilman

Rodriguez thank you madam president and

today in the public works committee we

will be covering two resolutions Mr

trusdale can you read resolution 73 of

2024 into the record please resolution

73 2024 a resolution authorizing the

city of Harrisburg to negotiate and

enter into a Professional Services

contract with Chris Dawson architect to

provide architectural services for

renovation of the restroom facilities at

the Public Works building located at

1820 Paxton Street thank you for that

and I see the director of Public Works

director West thank you for joining us

this evening um if you can speak into

the mic please and give us an overhaul

of resolution

73 uh that's um the restrooms and Public

Works that need to be

restored and we they want to make them

ADA Compliant currently they are in 80

to 990s fashion and are not ada8

compliant and we have residents

throughout our city uh into our building

to use our restrooms and they should

be okay all right um I'll open up for

questions I'll start with my immediate

left councilman Jones Thank You

councilman Rodriguez um I have no

questions at this moment thank you for

that uh to my right councilwoman

Ross thank you councilman Rodriguez I

also good evening and I don't have have

any questions at the moment all right

thank you for that Madame President good

evening I don't have any questions thank

you right thank you Madame vice

president good evening I don't have any

questions for

you councilwoman Davis thank you uh

councilwoman I mean councilman Rodriguez

good evening thank you for being here

this

evening I have no questions I know the

work needs to be done and so thank you

absolutely uh director Wes is there

anything you wanted to add um as far as

resolution 73 uh is

involved no no all right well with that

being said I move to add resolution 73

of 2024 to our next legislative session

Mr trusdale can you please read

resolution 74 of 2024 into the record

resolution 74 2024 a resolution

approving the disposal of certain

personal property owned by the city of

Harrisburg which has exhausted its

useful life for City operations thank

you for that once again director R uh

would you like to speak about some of

the um property we have that exhaust its

life and uh what we do with some of

those finances okay we have uh we have

uh some of our

automobiles we have uh trash trucks and

other equipment that has exceeded its

life it has um no longer have any use

for the city of Harrisburg it's been on

our property as you are all aware that

um we sold half to our property of the

widening of of

83 and that shortens our property from

having uh space to be able to hold these

vehicles as we have been holding them

and because we have no use of them we

need to get as much uh Financial value

that we can uh while they are in

existence that the years that they are

the longer we wait the less we receive

from our investment from our purchase of

them and we also have uh a parts in our

parts department as you have pictures of

that was on skids at one time we had six

different brand names of truck equipment

so we had the purchase parts for each uh

name of equipment because we were

allowed to Soul source and now we have

one company that we buy our equipment

from we have one source that we purchase

our part from so the the vehicles that

we have sold that we no long that we we

sold in Prior years and trying to sell

this year that we no longer need the

parts for the parts also need to be sold

as well and those parts more than likely

have high value and we could put those

funds are somewhere else needed yes

absolutely all right um and I will start

with my far right with questions Council

woman Davis thank you councilman

Rodriguez I don't have any questions all

right Madam vice president thank you

very much much it's pretty simple I

don't have any questions thank you

Madame

President thank you I don't have any

questions thank you councilwoman

Ross good evening again no questions

when it provides revenue for the city so

no questions when we're getting money

I'm fine and speaking of saving money

thank you director West for all your

help this season with Hotpot Saturdays

uh uh Mr Kevin Jackson sent the numbers

in and we were over 150 tons for 18 days

so thank you and finish it off with

councilman Jones no questions thank all

right um so with that being said I move

to add resolution 74 of 2024 to our next

legislative session and that concludes

the work of the Public Works committee

uh you are now excused thank Youk Madam

president thank you madam president for

all thank

you okay so if you're following along

with our agenda we'll go back to the top

now with the work of the administration

committee

we have two resolutions for this

discussion this evening resolution 72 of

2024 and resolution 76 of

2024 Mr trale could you please read

resolution 72 of 2024 to the record

resolution 72 2024 a resolution

confirming the appointment of Mr

Jonathan L luff Jr Esquire to serve as

assistant city solicitor for the city of

Harrisburg

thank you Mr Le if you wouldn't mind

joining

us if I keep my jacket on it's a little

cold down here okay as long as you speak

to the microphone you may keep your

jacket on or not a problem okay uh if

you wouldn't mind taking a few minutes

to please introduce yourself sure my

name is Jonathan L friends call me JJ um

I am I've been an attorney now for 11

years could you pull the mic just a

little closer to you thank you you hear

me we good all right uh I've been an

attorney going 11 years now graduated

from Drexel University in Philadelphia I

started off as a public defender did

about three and a half years doing that

then I went into the private sector

still doing uh criminal defense work um

I started my own practice about

six six years ago 2018 I think it was um

came to Harrisburg now now and there I

am okay well thank you um I just have

one question for you I'm just curious uh

with your varied uh experiences in the

legal Community uh what value do you

believe you will be able to bring to the

city of

Harrisburg um I think value that I would

be able to bring is just a kind of a

hunger to to want to make change um I

have worked as I said exclusively kind

of in the criminal defense area and this

allows me to try and maybe stop fighting

individually one onone and to go into

government and to be able to help uh

change structures right change the way

the law Works in a global scale or at

least here in

Harrisburg okay thank you um I'll now

open the floor to my colleagues who may

have some additional questions for you

I'll begin with councilman Jones any

questions thank you president bars how

you doing today sir doing well can't

complain all right just a couple general

questions um do you think there would be

a conflict of interest if you are

accepted in this role no um and similar

to council I mean council president of

Bowers um what Drew you

here um so my fiance Liv in Harrisburg

so I guess she was the biggest

draw it's always the case

out outside of that uh my mother

actually works in uh she works in City

Council in Philadelphia and this is kind

of a way for me to be able to get an

insight and to be able to work with Mom

even from she works in Philly I work in

Harrisburg but I have a feeling I'll be

able to connect her bring her up here

and show her some of the things that I

was able to do and learn from her okay

that seems like a a good enough reason

um again the reason why I ask again you

know the CF Harris B is going through a

lot of changes at the moment and uh we

definitely need people with an integral

uh uh intention to serve here in the

city of Harrisburg so um hopefully you

know you you are that guy that can help

us move um our city forward and I have

no further

questions thank you councilman Rodriguez

any questions thank you Madame President

um thank you for joining us this evening

uh what and you're already playing this

in your capacity

212 what do you feel some of your

hardest challenges

are hardest challenges as far as as

already in the capacity of playing thus

far um I would say you know the law is

very expansive so the hardest capacity

is learning any new area of the law

right and um you want to make sure that

you are well versed in the law that you

can always educate those because people

are coming to us with serious uh

concerns right and so I think the main

thing to do is keep our mouth shut and

get back into research which has not

always been my favorite thing but as far

as the law is concerned researching and

learning you can never do enough of it

well thank you for that Mr L and I look

forward to working with you in the near

future no further

questions thank you councilwoman Ross

any questions thank you president Boward

um most of my questions have been asked

and answered I don't really have any

other questions but to say more of a

comment but to say

um be still and stay like I know a lot

of people have been in your position um

and I feel like sometimes they don't

give it enough time to let the city grow

on them and do the work that they've

been brought here to do so all I ask is

give us a chance don't leave too quick

and um I would love to you know get a

chance to work with you and see the

great work that you're going to do fair

enough thank you vice president green

any questions thank you president Bowers

thank you for being here tonight and um

thank you for looking to join the city

of Harrisburg I know you've been here

for a little bit now so um I know Neil

threw you right in so uh how are you

liking it so far H well it's it is great

there is never a uh lack of opportunity

there's never a lack of you know chance

to learn new things so I appreciate the

fact that Neil has shown trust in me and

giving me things to do right away so you

know I'm not trying to be up there just

twiddling my thumbs there's work to be

done so I'm trying to get on it all

right thank you well welcome and I look

forward to working with

you thank you councilwoman Davis any

questions thank you president Bowers and

good evening attorney L um thank you for

being here I've been seeing you here

every week um which is good your resume

is very impressive and it's always good

to learn no matter what environment we

find ourselves in and wanting to make a

change is also why I'm here so I look

forward to working with you as well as

my colleague so thank you welcome thank

you thank

you excuse me councilwoman Daniels any

questions sure and apologies for my ttin

um just uh are there any existing

conflicts of interest that will inhibit

any aspects of the work or are you

completely conflict free no I I don't

have any

conflict that's it for me thank you

thank you if there are no further

questions or comments um I'd like to

move to add resolution 72 of 2024 to our

next legislative session for a vote

thank you thank you and Madam president

I will tell you we have thrown him in

the defend oh we know you have we

know I used

beard very good very good

okay next we have resolution 76 of

2024 Mr trusdale could you please read

it into the record resolution 76 2024 a

resolution authorizing the city of

Harrisburg to negotiate and enter into a

memorandum of understanding with the

Commonwealth of Pennsylvania relating to

certain Waterway enhancements to better

serve the health and safety needs of

those of

boter thank you good evening good

evening excuse me if you wouldn't mind

providing a brief overview of the

resolution sure uh so for the last uh

many years the bureau fire has been

placing the buoys to Mark um the famed

Dock Street dam in the susuo river

pendot approached this about a year ago

a little less than a year ago uh in the

83 Bridge Expansion Project they have to

mark the dam uh to comport with all

their

regulations and uh as we started to

discuss it in pretty much detail uh you

know how that would actually work um

because they would take over uh we asked

them if they'd be interested in

assisting Us in putting and placing

permanent booies uh into the Bedrock of

the river and they uh you know looked at

what the price would be and they were

agreeable to that too they had to pay

for it anyway uh as part of their Bridge

Project and this was just another way

that they could give back to the city

and help us better Mark the dam

permanently as opposed to with temporary

buoys that always wash away in the

springtime okay thank you uh I just

wanted to know are there other

Collective officials or organizations

involved um the resolution notes the

Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission

you mentioned pendat uh with assistance

from the governor's office so I just

wanted to add them in are they involved

yes I believe they're the big players we

were just on a conference call on Friday

uh with the governor's office pendot and

uh a fishing boat so they're all on

board there will be other mechanisms

included as well we'll have to go

through D for some permitting and things

but uh under everything we've talked

with pendot is going to take care of all

the permitting okay thank you for

clarifying um I don't have any other

questions um I'll open the floor to my

colleagues I'll begin I'll switch it up

this time I'll begin to my left with

councilwoman RWS any questions thank you

president Bowers um good evening uh

director Interline thank you for being

here and I don't have any

questions thank you councilman Rodriguez

any questions thank you Madame President

thank you chief for joining us um mine

is more of a parliamentary inquiry um

being a I guess well being a certified

instructor with fish and boat would it

be a conflict at all uh on the vote and

during the

legislative I I do not believe so but I

don't know what a certified instructor

we instruct students like we work Under

fishing boat you would not be a decision

maker there so it would not okay so okay

perfect no further questions thank you

councilman Jones any questions yes uh

how you doing today chief on of line

excellent so you know of course Public

Safety is one of my number one

priorities if not the most

um I think this is um I'm in support of

anything that is going to help our

public be safe so can you explain um for

our viewers and some people that may not

be aware of what the boys do how what

the markings of the boys are there for

and how this affects or

protects uh the residents and anyone

utilizing the uh the river sure that's

that's going to be a fun walk uh we we

currently uh Mark the the dam with uh

removable buoys they're they're

temporary buoys with a 50 lb weight uh

on the bottom of them attached to some

5/8 inch chain and a about a 10inch

round buoy um and they Mark the both the

uh upstream and downstream side to alert

boers and anybody else in the river that

there's a lwh head Dam ahead uh those

because of the the movement of the river

um that we see significant Rises right

we go we're about 3.2 feet right now uh

historically low

uh and you know in the spring we were at

16 ft so it's a significant uh rise that

we see in the river from the Snow

Mountain everything north of us those

buoys typically wash away we can't put

anybody on the river to bring them back

in because of the danger uh of going out

when that River starts to go up uh so

these buoys um will be they're larger

number one they're about the 3 foot in

diameter uh and then they they will be

attached to the Bedrock uh with one inch

chain uh so this Chain's about as big as

my arm is is it's a significant chain

they've been used successfully in places

in Canada where and we were we talked

about icing and things like that with u

ice movement on the river um and they

have these in places in Canada and

things like that where they're dealing

with the ice and the flows that we are

here in uh Harrisburg so uh the other

thing that these are going to do that're

because they're so large uh they will

give uh anybody you know we see

sometimes uh boat motors fail in a river

and that that happens anywhere um but in

the event that happened somebody could

actually instead of having to paddle the

nearly mile wide river um they're able

to grab onto these buoys and uh and and

hold on to them they're they're

substantial and they won't move with

that uh vessel that's in the water so I

I think that's that's one of the biggest

things uh you know not only from the

marking standpoint but they'll be able

to be used as a anchoring point if you

are in trouble we don't want people

anchoring to them to fish right must

point that out yeah thank you um I have

no further questions thank you for that

explanation thank you vice president

green any questions no I don't have any

questions thank you thank you

councilwoman Davis any questions yes

thank you president Bowers good evening

Chief edene good evening so it's always

good to ensure that we are looking out

for the safety of our or anyone who's

using the river reducing accidents and

reducing

Collision but what I like to know is how

are you or the city planning to on

maintaining these

buoys excellent question uh and that was

one of the things that we looked at um

these buoys uh once they are permanently

installed uh they are of a material that

has a 50-year warranty to it um so

they're extruded plastic uh with some

other materials inside uh and they will

actually uh go under the water they're

designed to go under the water as the

water comes up so we get up to 12T that

will will actually be submerged as

opposed to being above uh and that's

when the dam isn't dangerous if you will

so uh they do come with a 50-year

warranty which is one of the big reasons

uh we were looking at these uh and again

they they have a long history of

installing these in in several other

communities with a river that is violent

is what ours

is so will the uh buoys have

navigational charts on them or some kind

of sensor inside of them to direct

people who are out in boats in case of a

storm or no they they won't have it

they're they're not so they're not like

a marker that you would see in the bay

or or out in the ocean as you're

navigating a large Waterway like that

and how much would it cost to maintain

for the maintenance ongoing maintenance

and how often will that have to be done

so we don't believe that there'll be

much maintenance at all uh as a and I

think it's important to note once these

are installed uh pendot will maintain

them for the duration of the bridge

Expansion Project which is about six

years uh so the city won't pick up that

until after that six-year Mark um what

time and I believe that probably the

biggest thing would be you know if if

you will just cleaning any of the debris

or sediment that might attach to them as

they're underwater during the winter

season okay thank you thank you very

much no further questions thank you

councilwoman Daniels any

questions sorry so just to clarify

pendot will install and maintain for six

years and then we are responsible

afterwards correct and we're still

working out all the details on how and

when they're going to be installed uh

and and that's something that again we

just had a meeting with pend out on

Friday of of what that looks like so uh

they will maintain them for that

duration uh because they're required to

have them uh in their Aon plan so and

then if something happens and they can't

be installed let's say there's something

wrong with the rock or there there's

something what I guess it

moods we're not under hook for any

expenses that we're was no no um and so

uh you know not to not to get all nerded

out um I've already worked with the uh

State geologist um and learned a lot

about the uh material underneath the

riverbed more than I probably needed to

know uh and so we are confident uh that

the river rock underneath there will

have enough depth to it uh to be able to

Anchor and drill make the the uh

required drill holes uh to uh

attach those to the to the bottom and

that's it for me thank you thank you

thank you if there are no further

questions for chief anderline I mve to

add resolution 76 of

2024 to our next legislative session

agenda for a vote this concludes the

work of the administration

committee we will now move to the

community and economic development

committee I will defer to our community

and economic development committee chair

uh councilwoman Daniels to lead

discussion thank you um Mr Trel do you

mind reading resolution 75 2024 into the

record please resolution 75 2024 a

resolution approving the preliminary

final land development plan for 1103

South Front

Street thank you and um Mr Knight if you

don't mind giving us a summary for the

city and if the applicants don't mind

coming forward and I apologize I was I'm

coming from someplace else I didn't have

a time to pick up my laptop so um I

usually ask you to be brief but if you

could be a little bit more detailed this

time since I don't have the ordinance in

front of me uh sure um so the current uh

application um for the preliminary Land

Development plan for 1103 South Front

Street um this is the tunnels to Towers

uh development um the applicants are

proposing to uh construct a transitional

housing development um while

transitional and permanent um it does

have the um uh residents will have the

option of a permanent residency at the

at the site um for homeless veterans uh

featuring two types of housing

accommodations along with Associated

site and access improvements uh the

project includes a mixed use building um

with tenant services and Community

functions on the first floor and 64

units on the two floors above and 20

detached Comfort homes uh which are

effectively um tiny homes um that are

similar to those in the vocal facility

that council members may be familiar

with although they're a little bit more

robust they have a small kitchenet and

bathroom facilities so they are a full

uh unit as opposed to those other uh

facilities um the applicants received uh

zoning hearing board approvals for the

proposed use and um for uh other aspects

of the project uh in I believe June of

this year uh and so they're coming

before and last Tuesday uh Council heard

the subdivision for this property uh in

which the existing 15 Acres site is

going to be uh subdivided uh East West

and the uh Northern 8 and a half acres

uh will be uh the site of this proposed

development um and the southernmost 6

and a half acres will uh be the site of

a proposed um um homeless uh Supportive

Housing facility uh for homeless

individuals uh that has not yet been

submitted uh through through uh the Land

Development revieww process uh for the

uh current proposal um

the primary uh considerations are both

the type of use um and again it's very

similar to the vopa facility which is at

the southern end of this site and um in

many ways represents a um uh kind of

expansion of uh that facility in that um

I believe their residents of the V

facility will be allowed to um I guess

graduate uh to this particular facility

but they'll also be taking in uh other

um individuals that they identify um

through uh working with other

organizations um in the community uh and

um the really the major I think issue is

uh the uh impact on the Green Belt um

the uh facility will be located on the

footprint of the green belt where it uh

runs between the southernmost end of the

Dolphin County General Authority

property uh and then the uh small bridge

over the railroad tracks uh connecting

to the east side there uh in um many

discussions uh both between uh the

applicants and other stakeholders and at

the Planning Commission meetings uh it

was eventually uh determined that um the

applicants uh were not going to to be

able to accommodate the green belt on uh

the footprint of the property uh and um

I know the um applicants have been

working with uh the city City and the

Capital Area Green Belt Association on

finding Alternatives uh for that uh but

I did want to uh make a note of that uh

for two reasons um one the uh retention

uh of the green belt um is no is noted

as a condition um adopted by the

Planning Commission in their resolution

uh and uh two just noting um that uh the

retention uh and um Improvement of the

green belt is noted as a uh goal both in

the city's zoning code as well as our

comprehensive plan um that being said uh

you know there are a Alternatives um for

how that can be accommodated and again I

know the applicants are uh working uh

with the green belt Association um the

city and other stakeholders on

identifying those and um preparing

engineering studies and reviews uh so

with all of that being said uh the

Planning Commission has has recommended

that city council approve the proposal

uh with the following conditions uh the

applicant should redesign The Pedestrian

access through the middle of the project

site uh which connects the front

entrance to the building and the

riverfront Overlook using raised

crosswalks across the drive aises to

prioritize pedestrian safety and Ada

accessibility and uh what this would

basically be is similar to the raised

crosswalks at uh some of the traffic

circles on North 2 Street for example

that were created um so that as people

are driving through they kind of kind of

go up over a speed uh table uh and what

this is intended to do is um to kind of

prioritize pedestrians and especially um

any of anybody with disabilities uh as

they maybe go from the facility which

will have about three4 of the residents

out to the planned Overlook uh along the

river um and it keeps speeds low and

make sure drivers are paying attention

as they go through the parking lot um

the applicant shall in should install

landscape screening around the proposed

parking areas to prevent uh headlight

spillover into residential units and as

you can see in the um site plan there

the applicants have they do have parking

spaces that will be facing toward the

Comfort homes and so for the uh benefit

of the resident future residents of

those of those units um we have the

landscape screening to prevent that over

uh that um light spill over uh the

planning Bureau is recommending that the

applicant continue coordination with the

City Arborist regarding required

Landscaping screening and trees the

retention of existing mature trees um on

site where possible and the installation

of native plants and pollinator plants

in landscaped areas throughout the site

and uh more specifically around the

proposed storm water detention basins

and you see those um at the um southern

and western uh edges of the property uh

and then finally the project will

accommodate a relocated footprint of the

Capital Area Green Belt including the

removal of the proposed vehicular gate

and fence across the existing connection

to the green belt where the emergency

access road along the western portion of

the site intersects with the Dolphin

County General Authority property based

on the proposed site design the green

belt can be accommodated across the

southern boundary of the property

connecting the existing bridge over the

railroad tracks to the emergency access

road along the western boundary of the

property uh and again I kind of alluded

uh to that condition earlier uh in my

description and to uh some of the uh

work that the applicants are doing uh

with the city um with Kaka and with

other stakeholders um about ensuring uh

the continuation of the green belt South

Harrisburg uh in a manner that's uh safe

uh and enjoyable for all users of the

public uh the Planning Commission

recommended that city council approved

the request for the following reasons

the applicants have received approval

from the zoning hearing board for the

various zoning relief requests needed to

effectuate the project as proposed uh

the proposed project will meet a

critical need housing for homeless uh

individuals and will specifically Target

a group veterans who are

disproportionately represented in the

homeless population will provide quality

accessible units that improve their

standard of living and will introduce a

housing approach that may be a template

for future projects uh the project

represents a continuation of recent

development projects in this area

intended to provide accommodations and

services for those experiencing

homelessness and finally if the uh

recommended conditions of approval are

adopted the proposed project will result

in improvements to the site that will

provide benefits to the greater Public

Welfare includ including increased

vegetation and ecological biodiversity

improved connectivity and Mobility for

project residents and retention

formalization of green build access for

project residents and the general

public okay thank you and what what

flood zone is this one uh so the the

entirety of the uh property is located

in the um 500y year flood play The Zone

X flood plane uh the portions of the

property along the eastern and western

edges uh are located in the AE which is

the 100-year flood plane uh that does

not get any further um East from the

ssan river than the existing Access Road

there so it will not impact any of the

proposed um structures on the project

site and I do not believe it gets any

further um East or sorry any further

west than the primary Access Road um on

the east side of the project so uh the

proposed structure should not be

impacted um by the uh 100-year flood

designation okay thank you um so if the

applicants wouldn't mind um describing

your project timelines um

uh yeah thank you very much for having

us good evening uh I'm Bruce grman from

cwell and Kars I represent uh the

applicant joining me tonight is Luis

Menendez director of construction for

the foundation Bessie Davidson from H

Edward black the engineers on the

project uh we also have Justin hul

director of legal uh government Affairs

for the foundation and joining us in the

audience tonight is Peggy Grove the

original owner of the land that this

project is going to be built on what I'd

like to do is have Mr holcom briefly

explain the foundation and its mission

to you and then we have a terrific video

to show you a brief video uh two minutes

of what the project is going to look

like and then uh I and uh all of us are

available to answer your questions so

with your Indulgence please Justin would

you just like to thank the council for

this opportunity it's been uh most of

the year we've we've been up here and

it's been exciting every time we get to

come up and uh explore the city and get

to know it better um I think it is

important that we understand why we're

here uh you you all understand the

tunnel to Towers Foundation just a

little bit better um this is not a a

hedge fund that got together last year

and decided to spend a billion dollars

to help veterans this Foundation was

started on SE setember 11th 2001 our

Founder's youngest brother Steven Siller

was a firefighter in New York um after

the first plane hit the South Tower uh

Steven was actually on his way uh to

play golf with his brothers um he got

news that the first plane hit and he

called his wife and said hey uh cancel

my golf my tea time with my brothers I'm

going to help my uh other brothers my my

firefighter Brothers um fight this fire

fight this this thing that happened that

they didn't know what had happened yet

um Steven pulled his his truck off onto

the side of the road the Brooklyn

Battery Tunnel was closed um he jumped

out of his truck threw 60 lbs of gear

onto his back ran over three miles

through the tunnel back to the World

Trade Center uh Steven later died that

day saving lives our foundation was

created right then and there since then

the foundation very quickly has built uh

or paid off the mortgages of over, 1500

homes for fallen First Responders

Goldstar families catastrophically

injured veterans uh dozens and dozens

right here in this state we will

continue to pay off mortgages and build

Smart Homes for dozens more in this

state as well um so we we we already

have a presence here we're excited to be

in Harrisburg this is a massive $2

million project we're not asking the

city for a dime we're not asking for

from Pennsylvania for a dime this is

100% privately funded we're not

fundraising off this the money's already

ready to go uh we'd like to get this

started as soon as possible and we just

appreciate the Council um I've already

met with a few of you to answer

questions but uh appreciate y'all's time

during this process and uh we look

forward to moving ahead soon so thank

you so uh what's your expected start

time on the construction for the

project as soon as possible um that's a

short answer I mean we're we're in the

process of going through uh our approval

obviously and uh we are in at this at

this moment with our final site plan

which we believe is complete and uh

we're in a position to go to uh through

a bidding process to S button up our

site work our building component because

there's two parts to the project it's

the Civil uh improvements and then the

actual superstructure that needs to be

constructed so right now we're in the

process of Designing that building we

have identified a manufacturer for the

building so as soon as we are able B to

move the process forward once we get our

site plan approve approval that will

give us an opportunity to begin the

process of buttoning up our contracts

for the manufacturing of the of the

units and be able to be in a position to

start construction once permits are

issued and we're hoping that we're able

to do that starting somewhere in the

spring thank you so your Indulgence we'd

like to show you a very brief video that

of what the project is going to look

like and do would you mind Mr TR

[Music]

is

[Music]

oh

[Music]

[Music]

thank you for watching okay thank you at

this time um we'd be glad to answer

questions I just like to say at the

beginning as Mr Knight explained um the

green belt is not going away the green

belt is going to continue a portion of

it that was previously on this property

is being is we're working with uh the

green belt Association and the city uh

to develop a relocation plan down

Sycamore Street it seems very viable Mr

Hill is here president of the green belt

Association and has can explain uh the

exploratory steps that are being taken

so the green belt is going to continue

that's the most important uh thing I can

say tonight about the green BT we're

available for any questions okay thank

you I'll open up to council let's start

to the far left Mr Jones Thank You

councilwoman Daniels how are you how's

everyone this evening good good um first

let me say that I think this is um a

great project anytime that we get to uh

Champion the men and women um that

served our country to for our continued

liberties is a good thing um this being

phase one as I heard you say um I think

there's no issues here um we have the

the approvals from the zoning hearing

board uh but the potential for phase two

is is one of the questions that I have

um some of the things that you may incur

in the second part of your construction

I see Miss Grove is in attendance and um

if I may ask um you know are you in

favor of this or it does this impede on

any of you're selling your property

correct all right and go ahead can you

step to the mic

please well I'm sorry as Miss Gro a

party to this appli she owns the land so

is she the applicant no she is not the

applicant the Equitable contract is the

applicant she simply here in support of

the project and that's what I'm asking

woman Daniels to make sure that you know

I know she's selling the property that

she's in that's all I'm just asking a

question okay go ahead all right thank

you five years

ago tunnels I mean um PHA project you

state your name I'm sorry Peggy Grove

2920 Parkside Lane in Harrisburg

Pennsylvania and I used to sit on

Council from 94 to 2002 and my

committees were Community Economic

Development and building and housing so

I'm familiar with all the work you guys

do behind the scenes and I thank you for

all of your time that you spend as and

you don't make enough money part of it's

volunteer for sure um that being said um

five years ago tunnels to I mean I keep

saying tunnels to Towers because that's

on my mind tonight um the vopa project

came to me and it also was for veterans

uh tiny homes that that uh helped them

to recuperate and go from homelessness

to productive citizens and this project

uh was brought to me by a board member

of that um that particular

project and um and they

um explained to me this project and it

it dovetails as you said previously and

I'm very very impressed with uh with all

of the all three projects that are going

there's a third project that you may

hear about this evening it's Eden

Village which is a faith-based project

for affordable housing and they also

have U pro um various um components to

their project that help the people learn

budgeting and and um get how to uh

increase their job potential um uh take

care of uh of children's um health care

and um children's

other you know other things it's more

family oriented than than these other

two projects are um so the all three

match together and it was my vision to

help the city of Harrisburg to have um

more housing affordable housing as well

as home housing for the homeless so I I

thank you for listening thank you all

right so my other question would be

thank you for um showing that your

support in this project as well um I'm

going ask you about two more questions

one being like I asked I mean stated

earlier um are there PR any potential

issues that you can foresee in the

second or even third phase I'm very

familiar with the Eden um I think that

was Council former councilman uh Lawson

that is involved in the Eden Village as

well um but do you see any potential

issues moving forward after the first

part of this project I'm not sure what I

I understand what you mean by phases um

in the sense

of we view this project as a single

entire project and that's all that we're

responsible for okay so I'm not sure

because I just heard I just heard uh

what can you say your name again

Menendez Menendez Menendez okay so I

apologize I heard our project is single

phase okay it's an entire project

consisting and I think I may have confus

confused the issues a little bit when I

spoke about site work and then Super

structure work it's all part of the same

project okay uh we just look at it as

two parts where we're able to do the

infrastructure and the site development

and while we're at the same time dealing

with the superstructure which would come

in on top of the site so that's how we

look at phases but those two phases make

up single project okay thank you other

thing would be uh the sum of the

Services um can you explain to the

viewers the listeners and my colleagues

as well some of the services that will

be provided for uh the residents that

you intend to house and um will some of

that uh you know when you're dealing

with veterans um people that served in

and and and saw active duty uh you know

right there by the river and then we

have fireworks so dealing with the PTSD

aspect of some of those residents um are

you prepared to handle um you know those

occurrences yeah so our our ground floor

as we talked about before is our service

center so that's geared towards anything

that a veteran resident would require

including your concern about PTSD to the

extent that if it's uh manageable we

will be able to deal with something like

that locally at our facility so on site

on site okay if it's something that's

more severe we will place that

individual in the proper program we will

find where that is through our national

case management Network or through other

partners that we deal with within the

community if it's available or wherever

that uh veteran would be able to succeed

so if it's something that it's not

possible for them to be in this

particular environment because of their

condition depending on the severity we

will find a place for him to go so the

the the services the wrap services that

we envision for the ground floor deals

with substance abuse deals with P it

deals with other issues that we may not

be you know cognizant of with dealing uh

with financial support uh many veterans

uh don't understand the uh uh going

through the administ the the bureaucracy

to obtain their vouchers or whatever

benefits they may have earned through

their service we provide that support

for them to find their way through the

bureaucracy get what what they've earned

and what they're entitled to in addition

to uh we provide uh Workforce training

so you may have picked up on on the uh

on the video there are officers there is

Administrative Suites within that first

floor it's not only

um difficult issues or psychological

issues that we deal with but if a

veteran has uh skills which many do come

out of the military with a set of skills

many know how to transfer that skill to

the private sector we provide the

workforce training and we partner with

local businesses to afford the veteran

an opportunity to gain employment and we

provide the ability to write a resume

how to

interview uh and we even have a clothing

store within the first floor Suite of

services where they can come and get a

suit if they have to go to an interview

so it it varies depending on the need so

we've thought through what a veteran

needs to

succeed and it starts obviously with the

stable home which we provide it's

something that they're able to call

their own because they do have to pay

rent so they have skin in the game but

we provide those services that they need

in order to become functional members of

our society once again okay thank you

and uh last question because I want to

give my colleagues the opportunity I'll

ask a whole bunch but uh um being that

this is a $20 million

project um I see that you have MBE and W

MBE um listed as a place that you want

to look to is there an actual plan not

only with the wnb and the MBE dbe um to

actually um look for Harrisburg

based

contractors um you know for a project

like this I think it would be a great

opportunity to share

um some some economic uh empowerment to

some of these local contractors is this

do you have a plan and if you don't I'm

willing to assist in any way possible

and I'm sure my colleagues would agree

with that as well so that's my question

y so I mean to be honest we don't have a

program but we are cognizant of the uh

of your subcontractor and vendor base in

Harrisburg and we've obtained uh a list

from your you were kind enough to share

with us and we are taking that into

consideration so our approach is to

bring the work to the community uh we've

done that wherever we go we've been in

Atlanta we've got uh Contra local

contractors there that we hired we went

to Houston we hired local contractors

and a local subcontractor base and we

intent to do the same thing in

Harrisburg so we invite say that last

part again sir say the last part again I

couldn't hear what you said as far as

inviting the community okay to

participate so there is a there is a uh

subcontractor base here minority

non-minority um we bring everybody to

the table to help us build this project

so it's not only the city of has

Harrisburg that's going to benefit but

the overall state of Pennsylvania will

get some benefit as well because a lot

of the manufacturing base for the

buildings that we are intending to bring

to this project is in Pennsylvania

Pennsylvania happens to be one of the

central hubs of manufacturing for

modular construction yes and I

appreciate that um thinking of the P

Pennsylvania in its entirety but um just

remember um that that I'm just asking um

and I'm not saying local either because

that spreads the map out a little bit to

York Lancaster Central PA I'm asking

about Harrisburg based uh contractors

and that's just something I would like

to see in mind and you will see you will

see I mean our general contractor is a

har based contractor they worked on the

VBA project as well they know the site

they know the community so uh we've

asked them to open it up to the

community uh so the subcontractor base

will come from Harris all right thank

you no further questions thank you um

councilwoman Daniels thank you

councilwoman

Rodriguez thank you um thank you all for

being here this evening um with the

unhoused population being prevalent in

that same area would you be against

putting maybe an ouse somewhere on the

property or maybe an area where they

could come invitingly cuz I can't

predict the future but I can foresee

perhaps some instances where they might

come and ask use the restroom or maybe a

meal so maybe if we could be a bit more

um just thinking forward if you will

maybe somewhere on that beautiful land

maybe just an ouse or maybe somewhere

they can shower where it's just away

from the rest of the facility just kind

of throwing it out there possible

um I mean overall our our our focus is

on vet and the success of absolutely um

but as you know our focus is the entire

city of Harrisburg and I I appreciate

that we playing ball here I appreciate

that however um it it is a community

that we studied quite a bit and uh and

and I understand there are folks out

there that may need well right in the

same area that's the thing is that we

we've we looked at the property and we

designed the project and make sure that

we maintain that privacy and that the

veteran deserves maintain the Privacy so

would there be like gates to keep people

out or there will be perimeter fencing

that provides a secure environment for

the for the veteran similar to any other

planned community that you and I may may

move into where it's you know gated to

the extent that we want to maintain that

control of that environment absolutely

these are very sensitive individuals

with the significant problems we just

talked about PTSD others may have uh

some other issues that they're dealing

with

psychological issues that they may be

dealing with as a result of

war and so it's very sensitive to and

and bring the general public to a to a

place that intrusive where we allow them

to come into that Clarity not their

specific place I was referring to more

of a specific designated place maybe on

the outskirts since such great

developments going up it wouldn't be too

cost effective to maybe an addition but

that's just me p and the sky dreaming I

mean there are issues that that we can

think about you can we can bring that

bring up with

maintenance maintaining this the the out

house would you just mentioned and

that's not something that's yep Dolphin

County collaborates with many nonprofits

they have showers on state they have a

lot of different programs but you know

no pressure I just wanted to bring it up

how many veterans can be housed at one

time at the facility if we full

occupancy we're looking at 64 uh units

in the main building and these are

efficiency units they're single

apartments with a kitchenet full

bathroom uh and we've got 20 Comfort

homes which are

specifically uh granted to the older

veteran who's not going to be

integrating back into society any time

these are folks that are either going to

live the rest of their lives in in in

this particular location so that was my

next question not to cut you off off um

but just to you know spare time the met

so there's no real metric or objective

for transitioning there will be some

that just stay there permanently so

there'll be a cap of how many people can

be homeed yeah there the number of units

I mean that's that's it we're we're

looking at 60 permanent units and 64

units in the main building in 20 so you

can say there's 84 unit so there's no

transition no transition for like

independent living for um you know are

self-sufficiency or anything like that

the apartment allows you to be

sufficient on your property so I guess

Clarity to their own stability to to be

self- sustained there's no transition

plane no we this is all parented house

okay okay so once you 64 at capacity

that would be it that you you'll turn

people away 84 well until until some

when a tenant decides that I've been

here I think I can do it on my own and

I'm going to move back into the societ

would that be the vet's decision or will

you guys have a professional saying hey

you guys met a ABC and D you can

transition we are we are not a program

or a facility that has a time limit come

here you stay as long as you need to

okay uh if it's a month that you need to

maybe Gap a situation that you're

experiencing at home or you know getting

back with your family that allows you to

say I'm stable now I don't need this I

appreciate it somebody else can take

advantage of that particular got you so

these aren't primarily unhoused veterans

these are just veterans dealing with the

outside world having some difficulties

may need a little bit of assistance and

they need a place to live gotta they

need a home okay understood and then for

my last question the transition maybe

reigning the green belt to Sycamore um

how will that play a toll on Department

of Transportation that small kind of

passageway um with customers going in

and out how would that interfere or even

up to the South Side har yeah that's

something that I will allow the U KAG to

discuss as far as as the routes that

they're looking to which are viable from

our conversations it's just a matter of

them making a final decision how we're

going to do it doesn't affect our unit

your unit but I mean like the city

itself because if you know Department of

Transportation pendot is used heavily

that Sycamore Corridor and then right

there is the CMU building and then right

up the street is the south side of

Harrisburg Hoover homes Etc so I'm just

you know there's a school that way I

just I'm just focused on congestion

potential traffic issues Etc that's

something that you have to discuss with

u u the greenball folks to be able to

give you a little bit more date on that

y i as far as our facility is concerned

uh it doesn't affect but that decision

is is due to your facility so it would

be one of the same so if you can get

that to council or those answers from

the Green Belt that would be absolutely

fantastic thank you no further questions

thank you councilwoman RS thank you

councilwoman Daniels um hopefully I

don't have too many questions sorry if I

do but good evening thank you for being

here um thank you for uhu wanting to put

this subdivision within the city to help

our veterans um they are a population

that we treasure and that we do know

need um some helping are sometimes left

out and forgotten about um my first

question was um what will the lighting

be like um what will the quality of the

lighting be like and of course um how

will the security um around around this

subdivision what will it look like cuz

we do have other members of our

community that live within that area and

um just trying to see how um security

and lighting will be to protect all of

them

um this project is completely isolated

from resal oh speaking to the mic so I'm

sorry no I just want to point out that

this project is completely isolated from

residential community

on the uh North Side you have the uh P

DOT office building over here you have

railroad tracks and Cameron Street uh

along there uh so uh and um of course

the river over here so um it it doesn't

it's I think the nearest residential

Community is probably uh at least a

quarter mile away no it's right I mean

our unhoused population they live right

there so they are residential community

so they're

actually yeah so I think like and not to

um do anything that harms them either

and to keep the veterans safe and the

unhoused population safe there I I

definitely would make sure there's a

plan to keep both entities safe because

there is a very large unhoused

population there so so we this something

it as very important to us we' we've uh

as part of the planning process we've

gone through a photometric study to look

at lighting levels throughout the

community because you can see it creates

sort of a Meandering uh path through our

site yes so that is a concern to us as

well not only for our tenants yeah so

that they're able to maneuver through

the community safe safely so it's fully

lit to the extent that we would

experience anywhere else in any other

commun uh as far as security is

concerned we we've partnered with a

national uh security firm that uh

understands our needs we've done several

projects with them and so theyve

developed a scheme for security passive

meaning video video monitoring

throughout the facility to make sure

that the entire footprint of the site

collects uh uh not intrusive maintaining

a v a vigilance throughout the entire

site so basic basically we have a

perimeter that's being monitored to make

sure that we no have anyone coming into

the community that doesn't belong within

the uh the veteran right the veteran

obviously is free to move outside the

community uh they have they have to be

responsible while living in our

community uh uh so that we have a zero

tolerance on on the issues of they go

outside the facility they cannot engage

in activity so that's something that's

out in the community and they know that

they put themselves at risk of being

uh moved out if they do not

follow uh so there are different levels

of monitoring from a security

perspective we've got like I said the

perimeter exterior security we've got

Gates that are monitored that are

secured with key Farms there are several

uh levels of allowed entry that deals

with the administration and obviously

the residences when you get into the

building in the actual facility every

every tenant has their own key to their

own U unit and then the common areas are

all monitored internally with the the uh

multistory so we've got several layers

of of security within the facility on

the perimeter and interior to the to the

uh multistory building single point of

entry so every every ten The Lawns in

that building comes through the front

door nobody's allowed to come in from

any other door other than the front door

that's being monitored by a 247 security

uh detail that's part of the uh

administration of the of the building

that is posted right at the front door

so that front door is constantly closed

you need to have be able to come in with

your own access key that allows you

entry if you come in off the street you

need assistance we have different levels

of security that identify that

individual and allows you to get to that

front door that eventually lets you into

the building to be either Adit it or

treat it whatever whatever whatever your

needs may be we don't turn anyone away

and uh and see if we can help Okay thank

you for that extensive answer I do

appreciate it um I would just always

keep in mind like I said the unhoused

population that is there and remembering

their Community within that space um so

but thank you for your answer

um my other question was I noticed in

the resolution it didn't say how many

jobs would be created and um so I was

wondering what um how many jobs will be

created from this subdivision are we are

we talking construction jobs or we um

jobs after it is constructed because our

our councilman Jones already touched on

jobs I mean that is something how many

sorry permanent jobs yes uh in the R I

would say in the range of 15 to 30 okay

and of course we we we depend on the

volunte volunteerism as well so the

community is also welcome to

participate uh

weot lot a lot of people come out and

help whether it be to spend time with

the veteran we have day rooms in the

facility that can come in and play pool

for the day ping pong or have a meal or

you know during the holidays a lot of

people come in so we have the permanent

staff and then we also depend on

volunteers that come in and help so it

could vary okay and the the maintenance

would be kept up by some of those

permanent jobs that are there or is

there another step with the maintenance

of the subdivision after it goes up what

does that look like so as far as as far

as our project is concerned we will have

a permanent property manager on site

there will be a program manager that

would be dealing with the administrative

issues that we talked about and there

will be case managers on site dealing

with individual cases from a maintenance

perspective that's something that we

take on ourselves okay uh we will have

maintenance uh Services long uh lawn

mowing snow

removal um you know ice de icing things

of that nature that any other community

would have we take that role along okay

and we you know we will be interviewing

uh different vendors locally that will

be part of the program for example when

we deal with Landscaping we try to

identify local landscapers that can EX

the project from the of this this size

of this magnitude and then with the idea

that they can continue once we go into

operation to maintain the facility okay

thank you that was my NE oh I was just

going to comment reaching out to the

community um you'll probably hear that a

lot on here on city council but we just

we know that we have community members

who can do it all sorts of services

we're going to need uh we buy food we

buy water we do all kinds of things that

any other facility would uh would

require okay janitorial services you

name it repairs anything that you can

possibly think of will be handled from

defic okay thank you um and I think I'm

sorry for my all my questions but my

last question would be how are you going

to um how will you be going about

getting the participants the veterans

who will live here are you going through

certain Services is it going out into

community community and kind of seeing

who needs it cuz not everybody is always

signed up in certain programs and not

always everybody doesn't always raise

their hand to say hey I need help um so

just how would you go about that is that

is the one question that we struggle

with every day how do we and we do we

you know we work with the VA we do get

referrals uh VOA is going to become one

of our our referral service not I say

Referral Services un unfortunately but

when they do graduate from that program

which they will they will when they find

and I'm they've had they had P of of

some of the veterans saying okay I'm

ready to go where do I go now we will be

there with our permanent housing

facility where they can move into and

there are other other organizations in

the in in the communities that we go to

that say Hey I happen to know a veteran

than needs are so bring them to us we've

got we've made uh inrs with the county

in in Houston where the County Police

has a program where they are picking up

certain veterans and they don't know to

do them they bring them to us to help

them find find homes and so it comes

from many different many different

directions and you're right the veteran

doesn't raise up their hand and says I'm

homeless right they uh they could be

among us and not know it it takes time

and Trust for them to step up and say I

need help yes I completely agree and we

do have case managers like I said and we

will do Outreach into the community and

see where they may be yeah try to get

them help

yes I think the Outreach part would be

great there are definitely members of

our community who are not going to raise

their hand and say that they need help

but they do and I know we have maybe one

or two um programs that deal with the

unhoused population and of course some

of them are going to be veterans so

reaching out to them um would be great

too um our daily bread I know they

that's a souit kitchen but they also of

course I know there are veterans that

that go there and there's another one

that it's coming away from me right now

but a program that helps unhel um

individual all those folks are welcome

to U contact us and we will have

Outreach people on the occation that

will go out into the community and deal

and speak to some of these other

organizations to bring them out of the

shadows and say hey it's not something

to be ashamed of it's something that we

need to handle and uh we'll provide that

homeful all right I may just ask at the

um planning one of the Planning

Commission meetings there were uh

commanders of veterans

lodges and they explained that

today every day people are coming to

them veterans are coming to them and

asking for help so that's a referral

source also oh well then that's great

yeah thank you and they on the gamut I

mean it could be recent veterans that

have been discharged some that have

spent some time on their own stretching

all the way back you may find a Korean

War but that's still struggling going

from home to home definitely Vietnam

veterans are still out there yeah and uh

so and that's where the Comfort homes

come in so if you're that era where you

know you you're you're at I I don't want

to say at the end of your life but you

know you're not becoming um integrated

into society if we can help you and we

certainly would but you can come and

call this call your home thank you and

just for single veterans correct all our

facilities are for single veterans if

that doesn't mean that we don't help uh

veterans with families good we do uh we

have our national case management

Network and that is another group that

we have at our office that deals with

hundreds of veterans across the United

States where they may be either

geographically distant from a project

that we may be developing then it won't

be not will not be going to those

particular facilities or will not be

building a facility where they are we

help them through this network to give

them the same support that we will give

at the our sites but if you have a

family and you're struggling with your

family you have children this is not the

place for bring up a family we will help

you place your family in a home that is

different than this with the same level

of service that we can Cobble together

with our network of service okay thank

you very much for answering my questions

that's it for me councilwoman Daniels

president of ours thank you my questions

were asked and answered they were around

the kaga Sycamore Street alternate route

so I'm I'm Mr Hill we should expect to

receive some information okay thank you

and then my other question was related

to Economic Development and job creation

which was answered thank you thank you

vice president green thank you very much

um thank you all for being here tonight

uh I really look forward to this project

because I feel like it's something that

is very much needed uh a couple of

questions one is it just for veterans or

is it for First Responders as

well initially our program is for

veterans okay we do have other ways that

we help First Responders through several

of other programs so if you know the

First Responders that needs help

assistance I think it's certainly a

contact us and we will put them in

contact with the right person help their

needs okay uh and then the other

question I have is transportation in and

out will l be like will there be a bus

stop nearby how will the veterans be

able to get in and out um will they be

able to drive in is it parking for them

are they expected to use bikes walk you

know just some information on their

transportation Totally Above okay some

have cars some have bikes uh some like

to

walk um some we provide transportation

so that's part of we live in our in our

village we provide the transportation

you need to get to the VA you can

arrange to be taken to to Veterans

administra administrative services or

you know it's ad hoc so if they need

they need to go to a uh mall or

something we may make the arrangements

to give them the transportation to get

them there or to a transport Hub where

they are able to take public

transportation to whereever their

final for example in Atlanta we have

Marta which is their local train service

we're about three miles away we have a

bus stop right on the outside of our

property

and some need to get down downtown

Atlanta we'll transport them to the m

Mata service Marta service and they're

able to take their train into into

downtown Atlanta when they come back

they can either make arrangements be

picked up or they can take public

transportation all right thank you very

much that's we'll do the same thing here

right depending on what the needs are

all right thank you that's it

councilwoman uh Davis thank you

councilwoman Daniels thank you Mr

Roseman and everyone else who is here

this evening a lot of my questions have

been answered um I'm really excited

about this project

because in anytime we

can service our unhoused whether they're

veterans or just you know or any

unhoused person is a plus

um being that I am a veteran myself

thise especially

um passionate for me um I also served in

the United States Army so I am service

connected but what I wanted to share is

that there are going to be plenty of

referral services for you there is the

leanon VA Medical Center we got have the

vet center on Second Street there's the

Navy uh yard over in mechanicburg um and

so there will not be a shortage of any

um you know me there veterans will be

able to use your services and all the

other services there's just not enough

services to go around so this would be

an advantage so I'm very excited um

about the prospect of this um facility

and when councilwoman RS was

asking about the perimeter I believe I

ride my bike down there on the green

belt and I did get a chance to go up to

the Tiny Village that's currently there

and there was a boundary and there was a

sign there that stated you couldn't you

know go any further I was actually

turned around by somebody down there

they told me to make a

U-turn um so I know with the area and I

don't think there are going to be any uh

Tres trespassers down in that area so

I'm comfortable that the perimeter is is

safe is

secure um and that other people aren't

going to be able to just you know travel

and trespass in that space

um no veteran Left Behind no veteran

turned away that makes me smile

um so yeah I think this is a a good

project anytime again that we can help

someone who is unhoused whether they're

a veteran or not I'm all for it so thank

you again for coming here and for

sharing information and good luck thank

you for your service thank you so we we

look forward to bring in the

project um so I would like someone from

the Green Belt to step up and discuss uh

the issues and just to be clear with

Council um initially there was an

agreement between green belt and the

original owner of the property that the

green belt thought they had recorded as

an easement but it was not an easen so

the Green Belt doesn't have um isn't a

third party in in these proceedings but

um if you could answer some of the

questions council members raised uh

during the questioning I'd appreciate it

so please state your name and

um and go

ahead I'm the president of the cap Green

Belt Association I live at 709 Green

Street here in Harrisburg and I

appreciate the opportunity to be here

tonight uh we uh first as we've said in

front of the Planning Commission and

Zoning hearing board we are supportive

of tunnel to Towers their mission as we

were supportive of opa and we anticipate

being supportive of Eden Village when

they come before you as well and so we

don't want anything that we're doing to

impede uh the construction of the

provision of the services uh that they

intend to provide uh to give you some

background the green belt of course is a

regional asset for the city certainly

but for for the entirety of the region

uh as was noted in the opening comments

uh we are delineated in the uh City

comprehensive plan we listed in zoning

ordinance we're in the county

comprehensive plan uh the uh tricount

planning uh the hats program and others

as as an asset for the city and that's

not just a recreational asset but it's

also an environmental asset and it's

also a transportation asset and so

that's why that priority has been

expressed as it appears in the zoning

ordinance the very specific phrasing is

the you have an objective for completion

of the green green belt and why that

language is in there is because the

green belt which circles the city a

little over 20 mil and then some spur

routes uh is almost entirely uh the

property of the city or some of its

other Municipal Partners or if it's

private property we have an easement

through there uh the completion language

is because there are three properties

remaining that are private properties

where we have nothing but a permission

so to clarify the comment that made

before uh we were never under the uh we

never expressed that we believed we had

an easement all we had for each of these

three properties is a permission and so

it does not rise to the level of an

easement certainly not a right away okay

so uh we have uh over the last 30 plus

years uh tried to um negotiate getting

those easements uh you know with uh I

won't say without success because it

really wasn't a a top priority effort

because we had the permissions and we

just expected that over time we would

have those

discussions what's before you tonight is

the tunnel to Towers property which uh

lands squarely on the historic Route of

the green belt and so that occasioned

this discussion uh but it was actually

preceded by uh the rerouting or partial

rerouting the green belt uh with the

vopa property and just to orient you

where we are this is the entirety of the

area uh this is the tunnel to Towers

property right here uh this is pendot

Dolphin County General Authority vpa is

down here and then this is the potential

future site for Eden then road tracks

Cameron Street Sycamore

Street with the approval for vpa and we

supported approval vopa uh we uh closed

the route that used to go through that

area and so used continue use what we

called the shortcut and by the way this

shows the historic Route of the green

belt uh when that construction then

began uh fencing was put up construction

fencing to limit access and obviously

it's a construction zone so you can't so

this section of the trail got closed off

and we worked with the city to put in

place a detour The Detour uh now comes

down to the pen do property comes back

across Sycamore the whole way out to

Cameron Street then back in at chinoi

and then reconnects over here and that's

that's the detour uh that's been in

place since the construction began on

vopa and is still in place right now and

until we find an alternate route is

going to continue to be the

detour so with that said uh the route

that we're looking at and we've we've

are in completing an engineering review

uh for feasibility for cost and uh to uh

determine whether uh we're going to be

able to get this route in place uh this

is an older sketch we have newer

sketches but uh we're still finalizing a

few things so I didn't have an

opportunity to get a blow up for you but

the alternate route that we are looking

at we would come across right in here at

the lower end of Front Street go up

Sycamore Street and then one of two

Alternatives one would be to Loop

through the peny property and then

connect back down here or to come up

here and go through the cumulus property

the cell tower property and same thing

make the

connection uh we're we're working on as

I say on the feasibility study the

biggest issue is uh safety along

Sycamore Street uh as you know all we

have right now is a five foot wide

sidewalk and which is number one illegal

for the cyclist to use but number two

inadequate for cyclists and so they're

on the roadway pedestrians are on the

sidewalk and ultimately they have to

cross and fall down Cameron

Street what we're proposing to do is or

what we're studying doing is widening

the sidewalk to 10 feet so in popular

Parliament putting Sycamore Street on a

road diet uh and we are completing the

traffic engineering study to see if

that's supportable given the conditions

for Sycamore Street as well as the

traffic volume out of pend do uh

initially we think that is possible uh

initially we think we don't think there

going to be be any issues doing that uh

it will not we don't believe it'll slow

the traffic appreciably to the extent

you have any stack up it's not because

of design of the road but because of the

traffic light at Carman street so that's

what we're looking at uh the obvious

impediments are first that we are going

to have to instead get easements either

from the peny property or from this

property uh We've not had deep material

discussions with the property owners on

that because uh it's premature sure uh

until we have the full engineering

review and the full uh traffic study

complete uh but what we do know from our

Engineers is that there will be a price

tag attached to this as there often is

and uh the total Allin price is probably

going to approach $3 million to get the

reroute done uh first phase would be to

come through Sycamore Street Park that

would be about 1.2 million and then the

remainder would be for whatever

connections we're we're going to to make

through

there um we are also uh in discussions

with Dolphin County General Authority

because even though the the permanent

reroute of the trail would be proposed

up here we still want to keep this

segment open and there are four

particular reasons for that first uh the

employees use the trail regularly on

brakes and otherwise and then active

Transportation people use it to get the

pendot second uh this part

of the trail was paved with State funds

and so um needs to stay open for that

reason third uh this makes a connection

to where the emergency access road

exists and so this needs to be

maintained for that purpose and then

last is that uh we think there will be

an opportunity some point in the future

once uh tunnel Towers is fully developed

fully operational that a gate can go in

here and they're they clients can have

access to the trail and the rest of the

city uh using that spur of the trail so

that's the uh short version now I

mentioned the $3 million uh you all I

know this the city has been remarkably

supportive of the green belt over year

over the years considers an asset and I

know individually you've been supported

and many of you are users as well uh so

we are going to be asking the city for

help not necessarily $3 million

appropriation Al so you know if you're

able to do that that would be Grant but

more realistically we know we're going

to have to apply for Grants uh and uh

our primary partners are going to be

dced pendot and

dcnr uh We've also are working with the

foundation Community we already have

received a few smaller grants there uh

but it will be a concerted effort and as

you are aware for a non-profit seeking

state grants uh we are typically

required to get uh support and

sponsorship of the host municipality and

so we'll be talking to you about that as

each of each phase is developed um the

we expect to have our final engineering

report within a week or so uh we will be

happy to share that with Council and

however you'd like and we'd be happy to

meet with you individually or as a group

uh to get you more detail i'' be happy

to answer your questions okay now just

um just if anyone has a question just

shout it out yeah yeah um so you said um

two things Sycamore when you're talking

about

five five would you say five to 10 right

that's the sidewalk you want to expand

the sidewalk which will take away from

Sycamore Street that's correct uh okay

and then secondly you just um talking

about um coming to council about um

funding and we just heard the gentleman

say that funding is there is this

separate from what they're doing because

he said that the funding was there they

won't ask the city for

anything so we we have no direct

relationship with tunnel to Towers we're

we are I know I know who you are I'm

just saying it so there's no I mean you

guys seem to be working together on this

project and you seem to be in uh favor

of this project but when it comes to the

green Pelt and uh so I guess that

wouldn't they're not supporting new

financially with that or we we are

having discussions uh we we've had a

couple meetings now with their with this

team in the corporate office uh I can

make a representation on uh what they're

willing to uh donate to us to help with

the project they said that that is under

consideration and in in the interim uh

they will lend letters of support to

whatever Grant applications that uh we

got you and um just my concern about

shortening that Sycamore Road because

there is a lot of traffic that goes

through the there trucks and every thing

going to to pendot you know hopefully

that you can get that easement through

the peny supply uh uh uh property and

hopefully wouldn't have to shorten that

Sycamore Road thank you yes and that's

that's our preferred route as well is to

come this way because no Crossing would

be required if we have to locate here we

will have to have uh Crossing on in

syamore just before the overhead

railroad bridge and I had one um just to

ask as well uh are the veterans in the

project primarily from Harrisburg or are

they from anywhere in the

US

um they're from the area uh but if

they're in Pennsylvania they some there

may be some veterans that are living so

I guess specifically because initially

we were proposed that it would be

totally covered financially so if you

come back to us and ask for the

taxpaying citizens of harrisburg's

finances put towards it that kind of

changes the conversation of so I think

we need to separate out the entities um

um the this is the the facility these

are the applicants for the project and

this is the green belt and they're two

separate entities so the Green Belt

doesn't have any standing because

they're they have no property interest

um but it's something that many people

asked about to to to Enlighten the

conversation a little bit more so I just

want to make that clear on the record

right this is so the full funding is for

that project there not anything else w

just in my opinion I see it as one

project and them working in

collaboration to make the project come

forward yeah the thing is the

application is them submitting the

application for a land development plan

for so none of that property is so what

portion of this would have to come back

in front of council without asking for

an allocation is that the only thing

that has to come back in front of us

well as so as of right the way I'm

hearing if I'm summarizing this

correctly

there is for practical purposes no plan

for the green belt until the green belt

figures out what they're going to do and

then seeks the permissions for whatever

plan Absolut abely and what I'm saying

as a council member representing the

residents of Harrisburg it could be

fiscally irresponsible to approve their

Project without his project totally

thought through because it will in

return hurt our

residents so councilman we there's been

a lot of discussion on this and and I

think people have to look at it just

with with a cold Clear Eye

because this property involved three

different entities that are private on

private next to two separate public

entities that aren't us and then we move

into other private property for the

relocation those are all separate sort

of detailed negotiations and until all

the dust settles like for for these

projects to anyone commit they know

exactly where this rot was going to go I

think the commitment that everyone seems

to have is the green belt will continue

on a route that makes the most sense

financially saf wise but I don't think

anyone could pretend they know right I'm

not talking about really knowing what

I'm saying is their support financially

for the green belts portion as well

no I said they're they're putting

they're putting a private piece on a

private property right right so I don't

think there is a financial support for

but that's what I'm suggesting or

proposing I I understand okay but not

knowing where understand not knowing

where it's going to be so not knowing

what it's going to cost that's that's

the that's want to say it if I have to

be the bad guy that's fine I just want

to make sure we're getting the most out

of it if there's going to be an

allocation coming down and if I if I can

address the point as well uh we have not

asked them specifically for an amount of

money we are we will welcome whatever

they are willing to contribute um but uh

we recognize the green belt is a

separate entity absolutely uh and we

don't know a way under Pennsylvania law

to make this that I agree totally I just

I just know throughout the course of the

years I've been on Council we've heard

similar things and when it comes to the

residents they're continuously getting

turned away so I just want to go to B

for them consistently that's all thank

you any other Green Belt related

questions yeah uh again you know I think

what council men Rodriguez was asking um

when it comes

to

rerouting uh the green belt especially

you know my concern is about Sycamore

short stre I just think that is

something that we should not do um but

um and that approving this

project and then you have to continue to

make those decisions around the green

belt area will say we because we it's

obvious we want this project to move

forward but then if you have these other

concerns around rerouting that green

belt how does this look does this come

back in front of us hey we need to we

definitely need to shorten Sycamore

Street and and if so you know I think

that's something we we should think

about U beforehand if if that's I think

that's a listic what he's asking so I

don't so this is one Land Development

application for this one property for

this particular

construction um I

don't know that there's a basis to hold

up deciding on this based on what could

theoretically happen I'm just saying

again once you approve this project

right then the green belt's going to

have its issue about where it needs to

be rerouted again I'm just strictly

saying for Sycamore Street I just don't

think that is the route and I don't I

don't think we should hold up the

project because of it but I I I do have

a concern asking will that come back in

front of us if that's the case that they

feel that they need to shorten the

Sycamore Street I think it depends on

what they do because I mean no offense

it sounds like there's nothing that's

firm they could theoretically work

around a ton of private properties and

have nothing to do with us I think or

they could deal with the state or not

have anything to do with us I think what

was just trying to be said was why

couldn't you have a complete plan with

what you were going to do that was it

like more thought out of this is exactly

what we want to do this how it looks but

I understand they're two different

projects definitely don't want to hold

this project up it's great project I

totally support it's just like oh I wish

we had a a better you had a better plan

of how you were going to maneuver the

new passageways and the trails to that

nature instead of some maybe that's it

well and I forgive me I I have to call

it a maybe because I don't have the

final but we have good detail drawings

we have good detail from our Engineers

we expect to have our final report

within the next week or so and I think

it will address all of your concerns I

don't believe there are any Council

approvals that we're going to need to

seek uh we have talked with the city

engineer we've walked the site with the

city engineer uh and he doesn't see any

initial reservations obviously he's not

reviewed the final plan either uh but uh

we're we're trying to check all those

boxes to make sure of viability before

we say yes this is it this is our final

Choice it just it just feels like kaga's

like singled out and I don't kind of

like favor that I think you guys should

be included in everything and not kind

of be left to just string it along and

freestyle it um but we're in heavy

support of the program we just thought

maybe more descriptive more detailed

kind of give us that foresight to see it

all the way through that's all yeah we

we we maybe maybe pitching it separately

would have helped or well I'm just

giving you my I think the original issue

was that the green belt thought they had

a relationship earlier that they didn't

have and then when these construction

projects came on the green Bel didn't

have property interest that they thought

they had and that's that's the

background for the issue but but there

and they currently don't have any

property interest where they're trying

to reroute they're trying to negotiate

those property interests and and there

would be no reason for us to ask them to

do the redesign work the the

responsibility for design of the trail

rests with the association in

cooperation with the city so it is a

completely separate set of design work I

understand

appr one

project lot of issues to deal the back I

think in all reality before you're done

before this is done there'll be things

back in front of the

council whether whether they're whether

they're Grant application approvals

whether there are because somehow city

property is involved that needs to get

an easement but but until you're really

there you're not there but I think dcnr

is offered to be of assistance same

thing with the project itself right I'm

saying so you'll get things in front of

you related to the green bell as it

reconfigures right because it's it's

just a long-term part of the city's but

in the nutshell thank you know that was

the question will they have to come back

to us in front of certain things if we

just approve it is that it well they

will be approved this the this group

tunnel full Towers will be approved

unless something when they're doing

construction changes and it changes

something that they have to come back I

don't that I don't foresee that

happening but once in a while you'll see

a project back in front of you that

project will be done the next project

Eden Village if it goes through will be

back in front of you which is the middle

project of the three absolutely when all

those three things are done it's much

easier to see what where where the where

everything is what's available

absolutely right and and we still have

pendot in Dolphin County to speak to and

you know it's just a thing where people

have to work together uh to preserve

this and I think everyone's grown up and

that that can happen Okay thank you I'd

like us to get back to the bill at hand

thank you for your presentation I do

have some follow-up question so this

property has been represented as a both

transitional and temporary permanent and

temporary

housing it's not permanent this is

permanent housing so there's no

temporary but I thought you said if

someone just needed to if you decided

you wanted to move somewhere else it's

not any different than if you lived in

one Community you decided to move to the

next uh we don't necessarily say it's a

transitional building we just made a

move to a different place in this case

we want you to move out but you can stay

you can stay as long as you need to as a

permanent resident so sorry so what's

the property interest that the people

who are living there what will they have

will they be tenants will they have life

Estates they are tenants they are okay

and then um I imagine there are

conditions under which they may no

longer be allowed to participate what

are those conditions the only condition

is if you know they

they commit a crime or you know they

they they they fail to follow policy

because there are rules that they will

have to live under as far as being a a

resident of the of the building like any

other building you need to follow

certain rules and this is part of the of

the of the program to rehabilitate

you're paying rent you have skin the a

this unit is yours you have ownership as

long as you're paying rent this is yours

you need to maintain it has to be in

good condition you're able to use the

facilities at no cost other than what

you're paying in rent so there is some

attachment to the community that they've

invested their their their their funds

in to live in now they decide that you

know I've bettered myself and I'm able

to buy a house out in in the community

then could you tell us technically they

can move out how much are they expected

to contribute towards their rent uh no

more than 30% of their income whatever

that may be okay um and then what about

visitors because you talked about the

entrance and having to have access so

how do how are visitors allowed to par

are allow to come to to the building to

visit their friends I that's something

that uh we you know we dealt with u

because we know that they they have

there's a Brotherhood that exists among

veterans and you know they support each

other they come and visit each other

right but so how do they come in and out

of the building they need to be

announced yes you you you're able to

bring a veteran in you have to

report you have to let them let the

facility know that your friend is in the

building and then they're able to uh

enjoy the facility with their friend

while while they are together in the

facility there will be at the gate yes

you will be able to communicate okay um

and then um Mr n do you mind just

refreshing my memory do we have does the

city have property along like uh

beneath the the road beneath the roadway

uh are you asking whether their access

road is a public right of way yeah it is

not everything South um and including

the penda facility is all private land

okay okay so we

have okay okay um and I

think that's those are my questions does

anyone have any outstanding this just a

statement you said 30% cuz this the

federal Mandate of 31% and over they'll

be economically disadvantaged is that

why 30% is the no more than 30% I'm not

able to speak to specific how we ended

up with the 30% just keep in mind like

our 30% may be different than the

counties just kind of keep that in mind

when pricing goes 30% of their income

yes the Ami yes but a so I understand

completely Madam chair thank you the the

thei income for Harrisburg is different

than dolphin counties I'm just trying to

have keep mind of the tenant income y y

right yeah Ami that's their medium

income this I have a question go ah okay

um 30% of the income so once they pay

their uh rent then all the utilities are

included and everything into that okay

that's good okay thank you oh and if you

don't mind sharing with us the policies

uh for participating and being excluded

from the project I would appreciate that

before the next um

um dishonorably discharge is something

that if you could just email it to us if

you could email us those policies that

would be great okay any other uh okay um

so I'd go ahead and recommend that we

add this to the next legislative session

um and that concludes the business of

this committee I have a question if I

sure uh weren't directed to the

solicitor uh it the resolution that's uh

written uh some conditions have changed

and particularly the uh relocation of

the green belt uh has changed um I

suggested some revisions to the uh

resolution um Can those be

incorporated I would have to discuss

that with the council members separately

um at at this moment this document

belongs to the Council of the city of

Harrisburg it's a publicly introduced

document um amendments to it come from

the council's

determinations um happy to have that

discussion um I do think if there are

issues you have with language we we

frankly ought to have that as a public

discussion um that's what the purpose of

the council is can we do that this

evening I I would say you you should do

that this evening uh because you're

asking the council to to refer this on

for a vote um like any other Land

Development plan if the applicant has an

issue with is recommended the applicant

and the council need to resolve that

right here whether the applicant can

meet those conditions or whether the

applicant uh objects to those conditions

um so I think you need to raise those

now if I may then may I have a clerk dis

my propos Madam president before we do

so do we have to reopen the committee

business since it was

concluded I didn't acknowledge because

he was acknowledged with the question so

we haven't moved forward with our

meeting agenda so we're fine to proceed

with additional discussion thank

you you got this close

by way of explanation the primary reason

for the suggested revisions is because

um various things change between the

time this resolution was originally

written uh and present for instance the

original

resolution um said that uh comments had

not been received from the Dolphin

County Planning commission nor the um uh

capital region water uh Authority and uh

comments uh were received subsequently

from both of those and um the uh

applicant uh has uh engineer has had

conversations with them and will comply

with those applicable comments uh that

was one reason for the suggestion and

the other was primarily because of the

green belt issue um the Planning

Commission had made the fourth condition

that the uh Green Belt be

relocated on the uh applican property

and of course uh first of all requiring

that is uh unlawful under uh

Pennsylvania law and the Pennsylvania

Constitution um because uh it's private

property and it would be considered a

taking of private property from one

private person to give it to another the

Capital Area Green Belt but more

importantly the green belt is uh working

on relocating entirely so uh we feel

that that condition is uh inappropriate

those are the only uh reasons for the

proposed revision uh to the

resolution uh the uh applicant will

comply with the first three conditions

that the Planning Commission suggested

and they've already Incorporated them

into the the preliminary final land

development plan that you have

received so it's just a a time

difference really in the uh conditions

around the drafting of the resolution so

Madam president if I may we need to

break these into two different things um

first I Mr Gman with all due respect

most of these are semantic and don't

really matter uh it has to do with the

time that the document was drafted not

it being accurate to those conditions

because those reviews simply are part of

your other side of getting the land

development plan signed by like their

conditions to get a crw review it's a

check box at the end of the day so the

Box happened to be checked after the

Planning Commission before you got to a

plan to be signed so and this is routine

it happens all the time if there's no

comment it doesn't mean a comment

doesn't come it only becomes an issue if

the comment comes back that they find

the plan doesn't work for whatever

reason storm water management or

whatever the real issue was the last one