Как устроен наш мозг? Интервью с профессором Александром Капланом

Nervous cells are terribly alive. The brain is sculpted depending on what a person is doing. The sense of smell is one of the most ancient feelings. Have you lived a day? There are 10,000 cells. No matter how you carry your child in musical and dance circles, nothing can work. We are not approaching the answer to this question, but we are moving away.

Why are smells so closely related to memories? Smell is one of the most ancient feelings. One of the most ancient because it is based on the chemistry of the environment. On molecules. How do we smell? Some molecules get into the nose. Well, that's it. They somehow smell for us. They don't get into the nose, we don't know anything.

And this is the first thing that was needed to be developed even by the most primitive animals. The chemical composition of the external environment. Something was suitable for them as food, and something was poison. And it was necessary to understand. Therefore, it is the most important for them

The brain is the most saturated. The brain is very good at differentiating smells. In principle, the brain, we are not talking about the human brain or anyone else, is very good at differentiating these smells. It somehow keeps them in the head, not just like the smell of Chanel No. 5 or 8.

and it also brings some other fateful events to life. For example, salmon fish, which come out of their shells in a small stream on the mainland, roll down into the ocean, and leave for thousands of kilometers for several years until they gain weight.

They become those who produce caviar themselves. But they go through the thresholds, through all sorts of obstacles, into these rivers, go into the same stream, and there they give this caviar, from which a new generation will come out. They do it by smell. But the vision is different. Very informative. In our eyes, the liver is 126 million years old.

How does memory work?

There are many mysteries in this memory. And we don't even know where the memory of these events is being fixed, which are now kept in our heads. Here are the nerve cells in your head. And where? In which nerve cell?

Some people say that these are the connections between the nerve cells. There are tens of millions of cells per event. There are enough combinations in the brain for all events of life. If we don't remember something, it doesn't mean that it's not on this shelf. It's there. We can't find it.

We need to organize these memorial traces so that they are easy to access. Some event suddenly flashed in our life. Some nervous cells reacted in different places of the head, because this event had a color, a smell, it had some meaning, it echoed in our other feelings.

This means that cells in different parts of the head have rumbled. But since they have rumbled at the same time, it means that they have created some kind of system. If there was now some kind of miracle way to insert these electrode cells, by which to send electrical impulses and stimulate these nerve cells,

but in the right sequence, you will have the same feeling in your head. There is nothing in front of your eyes, but you have a feeling, just like in the movie "Matrix". Here is this network, they remembered how they agree with each other, and, therefore, they can be activated in the sequence that was, but only not by external wires, but from the inside.

some thread that pulls and it all rings together. For example, the smell. That is, there was some kind of smell in this combination, you felt a thin stream of this smell somewhere, and immediately this whole network turned on. And immediately before you, some summer evening, everyone is in the forest, something like that, the whole picture surfaced. Because all these cells burst. If you remember some phenomenon,

this module appears in the RAM.

and it hardly appears because it is connected to other threads, with other blocks. All these threads are torn off, and the operative memory appears around like a jellyfish with all these threads. Here, you remembered it, for some reason you needed to work with it, then it plunges back into the place where it was, all this is healed, and the memory remains. But it's not that simple. The thing is, while you were raising it, there were no copies left.

But the fact that the memory is in operation is subject to changes. And therefore, now it is not what it was originally. How many times you remember, how many times you remember, you spoil the memory. Why is it done? It somehow spoils our lives. That is, it spoils in the literal sense. You can no longer remember what was really.

It can be thought of as a visible evolution. Why? Evolutionarily, it was very beneficial for the organism, because it is already growing. This memory, which is old, will not properly reproduce some elements of life, because life changes, the environment changes. You need to modify it somehow. Here it is being modified. And from a photographic point of view, that is, you would like to return to your old history, to remember what was. You can't remember anything if you don't remember it at least once.

How does the brain react to love or stress? Any deep feelings act positively on the brain because they bring up a new experience, a new experience of experience.

enrich a person in any case, but in case if it is a positive feeling, a person is unleashed a new life, just another aspect of life. This is a new experience that a person lives with, even if everything goes to nothing later, but with these feelings a person has acquired them and now he can live. This is more resources in any case for a person.

It is important that it does not have a destructive nature. That is, from these feelings a person becomes inadequate, some physiological and spiritual

then, of course, it will not be positive to such a level. Therefore, the question is about the dose, the dose of love. We can almost relate all these words, when we talked about strong feelings, to stress, because it is actually the same process. Some unusual state always causes some increase in the energy of the body. This can be identified by hormones, stress hormones, cortisol, adrenaline, all this increases.

But they don't just increase, they make your heart beat faster. We say that the heart beats faster because of love. But it also increases the pressure, increases the strength of the spine, and many other things. In order to increase the stability and the ability of the body to do great things. But it's the same situation. It should not be for long.

And if it's not for long, it's just a training for this kind of state, and it should sometimes be. Then the body understands what level of resources it should keep in stock. If there are no such trainings, it reduces these resources, all these stocks in the warehouses that are stored are gradually thinned out, and as a result, any small surprise leads to the stupor of this person. What is unique about the human brain?

The weight of a person is 1.5 kilograms.

The brain of a grape snail, I don't know how many, maybe less than a gram. And in this little brain, there are not so few nerve cells, 20,000. And the brain of a person, of course, has not 20,000 cells, but tens of billions, if we are exact, 86 billion nerve cells. Here's the beginning and the end. A snail also thinks. Researchers say that this cluster of cells, such a small cluster of cells, let's call it ganglia.

But the essence doesn't change. Let it be called ganglia, but it is a small brain. There are also worms, and they have ganglia. So every animal that is higher in the evolutionary order, it has a larger and larger brain, a larger number of nerve cells. But it is important that there is such a large stage, when the brain is produced by such a superficial layer,

It is only 3-4 mm thick. The skin of the brain is ahead of the whole human body. These 3-4 mm contain about 20 billion nerve cells.

That is, in general, more than 90% of the nerve cells in the brain of a person, except for the cerebellum. The cerebellum is a structure that controls movements. And these are very complex calculations. We have a lot of muscles, all mobile, a lot of joints. Together with the cerebellum, there will be 86 billion.

And all the farmland under this bark, we call it under the cork cores, the clusters of nerve cells, there is a much smaller part, less than 10% of what is on the bark. And with these 10% for a long time, animals lived, because they had no bark. But a person has a new property, completely different from the properties of animals, and which gave him

colossal advantages. You don't need to remember where it was good, where it was cold, where the enemies were, where the food was, and so on, as animals do. You need to look at the pattern of

of some phenomenon. For example, I take some object, a hand, and let it go, it falls down. Well, it doesn't matter, maybe this one falls, and the other one flies up. We let go, and the other one falls. And the third one in this room, and the other one in the other. So there is some kind of pattern. This cognitive direction of the brain, it became more and more pronounced.

There were already a lot of laws of attraction, but a lot of other patterns that we know. Now he is interested in what is in the sky, what are these little dots. Before, they thought that these were the hats of silver nails, which were hammered by velvet to the sky. And now they started to think that they are still moving, some kind of patterns. This, in general, was not very necessary at the time when they lived in caves.

But then it was necessary, when it was necessary to carry ships across the oceans, it was possible to navigate the stars. And in the end, he himself got into this cognitive world. That is, the person paid attention to who knows all this. This is the primary act of consciousness. As if a human being looked at himself from the side and distinguished himself from nature.

Our abilities depend on genes. We are formally different, but not much genetically. 0.1%. And then we see that one eye has brown, the other has blue, the skin is a little different, and so on. But are these differences due to psychological qualities? When they start to study the qualities associated with genes, there are very few. For example, temperament.

We are born with different temperaments. A little child, who has just been born, has his own temperament, which his father and mother passed on to him with their genes. What is it connected with? Maybe there is a composition of mediators, a little different, someone has more adrenaline, someone has less. I fantasize like this.

It's hard to say, because a human is a super composite creature. A lot of things influence these processes. We would like to know about the ability to do math, the ability to do music, and so on, because we see the geniuses. But it turns out that such a special gene is not highlighted. In general, a gene is separated and very rarely highlighted, almost never for complex properties. There are always hundreds of genes, hundreds of genes linked to some property.

There are hundreds of genes that are linked with a special property of common abilities. This is the ability of a person, especially if we talk about a child, to grasp the very laws of nature.

Someone picks it up right away, and someone needs some time. Someone may not even pick it up. You just play some game, and there is some sequence in this game, you need to either remember it or pick it up. And someone starts working with memory,

He doesn't know the law, but he remembers the situations. And someone has grasped the law, and then he doesn't need to remember anything. He just understands what is what. We are different. Then there is a certain environment. If a person heard the sound of music at an early age, and something echoed, and at the same time he has a temperament, and something echoed,

common mental abilities, they begin to go into this area. They develop everything faster and faster, while others lag behind.

Our mind is determined by inheritance. If consciousness is a look from the side, like a beam of a projector, that is, a lot of things are outside of consciousness, we say that these are unknowable processes. It would be better to say subconsciousness, that is, some kind of subconsciousness, some kind of basements, there is nothing like that in the brain. And the mind, apparently, refers to the function of just the acquisition of these patterns of nature. That is, what is the

The deeper a person understands the laws of nature, the smarter he is. And the laws of nature, in this nature, are the relations between people. We say everything that, yes, we are born unequal. It turns out that some will sweep the streets, and others will be high scientists. No, not quite like that. This difference, nature somehow made it so that it is transcendent. That is, relatively speaking, a person who was born with lower common abilities, I emphasize, not mental abilities,

Because it's another matter, it will be a pathology too. For some reason, lagging behind in mental development is a completely different problem. And we are talking about a healthy person, but who has less common abilities than someone else. So, if this person works hard, he will overtake the one who has increased abilities, but who has not worked hard. This gap can be overcome. But in the case if both will work hard,

Of course, it will always be ahead. No matter how you do not carry your child in musical and dance circles, maybe nothing will work out.

How to find your calling? You need to look at where the possession of some science or some teaching brings pleasure. This is an internal indicator that it is possible. Because that's how the body is arranged. If it grabs on and on and on, it brings pleasure. If it doesn't grab on, it's not pleasure.

And this is a point that needs to be considered. How to do it in a classroom where, for example, there are 20-30 students? For a teacher, it's very difficult. That's why it's a problem with school education. And in general...

We've talked about education. Education plays a major role here. If Newton hadn't studied, he wouldn't have been able to do anything. All the tales that some illiterate shepherd wrote the basics of differential calculation are just tales.

Because for this, we need some kind of base to at least think about it. We can't explain where our talents come from, from what quarrel they are born. But there should always be some perseverance, some will, willful exercises to get a higher level of mastery in the area we are engaged in.

There is a choice, this is more interesting, this is less interesting. And there are high achievements there, it happens. But choose the one where it is more interesting, there is more potential.

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When we learn something new, does our brain get bigger? Someone is a super taxi driver, and someone is a bad driver. Their brains are different. You know, I specifically talked about taxi drivers because such research was done for London taxi drivers. Well, London taxi drivers, because they become taxi drivers in five years. Every year there are exams and everything like that. And it turned out that yes, the more skillful taxi drivers become, the more the hippocampus area grows,

But you see, there is no connection. If you don't take a taxi, the hippocampus will be the same as it was. That is, this is some kind of development, like muscles. This does not mean that he was born with a large hippocampus, and therefore he will be a taxi driver.

No, it was proved well. Because there were such assumptions. The brain starts to be sculpted depending on what a person is doing. And what can grow in the brain? Nerve cells do not divide, as we know. How many nerve cells were there when the brain was formed in the mother's womb?

But then there are fewer cells. If the structure is loaded with some function, it works more intensively, the nerve cells require more oxygen, more nutrients, the vessels start to grow there, the neural connections grow, and all this leads to the swelling of this place, not by the number of neurons. Well, you can think that, for example, people who are busy with some special work, something in their brains is growing somewhere. It was interesting to see the intellectual abilities. Well, chess is an intellectual game.

Of course, it's intellectual. So, they took the "grossmeisters" and took those who can play chess, but at a fairly low level. So, they compared how the brains look. Well, how is it done? A map of the brain is made, all these structures are highlighted, if we are talking about magneto-resonance tomography, a map of ordinary chess players and super chess players. Then one is subtracted from the other.

If everything is the same, then this whole map turns into zero. We subtract the same numbers, but if somewhere in some places something is not the same, then these places will glow. And such places were found. One is such a vertigo-like oval at the bottom of the temporal region. Well, there are other two, three, four places. There is a difference. But in which direction?

In these places, the nervous tissue is smaller than that of ordinary chess players. It's the opposite. The smaller the brain, the better you play. Of course, you know, these physiologists, like me, can come up with a hundred hypotheses for any combination of facts. So here we see that these chess players know how to play better. Why do they reduce it then? It's very simple. These areas are specialized.

That is, the extra neurons that are only confused there are already removed, the energy consumption of these neural cells is optimized, because it becomes their work, the chess players, it becomes their work. And this is already such a highly intellectual game, it's not a taxi ride.

Therefore, it is necessary to grind the composition of the nervous cells in the corresponding areas very precisely. How the brain specializes in the relationship of a certain function with its highest development, it is all different, in different functions, in different parts of the brain. It is clear that if you train some group of movements, then the corresponding places on the core, which control these muscles, well, yes, most likely they will even grow.

Different parts of the brain act on different functions. There is precise localization for the inputs and outputs of the brain. For the inputs, all the senses have precise localization. If we stimulate the corresponding nerves with electric current, the visual nerve, then such powerful responses will be in the visual area. And it also has precise localization of outputs. We have only one output - the muscles.

It's known in such a microscopic form. There is an area that controls the fingers of the hand, forearms, fingers of the foot, and so on. It's well known, we'll just add that there is a center of speech, for example, and for some reason the man is on the left, and women have more tasks on the right.

As for other functions, there were various assumptions in the past. For example, you can feel the ability to do arithmetic on your back. If there is such a bump, then this is a person with increased adherence to arithmetic classes. But now it becomes more and more clear that such higher mental functions, general mental functions, and the mental world do not have exact localization in the brain.

Neurophysiology is a science about the sub-part of the brain.

What is it made of? What are the elements? How do they unite? How do they generate the nervous impulses? Where do they send them? What is the shape of these impulses? But the brain has something else, except for the nervous impulses. Our mental world, our images, our feelings, our feelings, our higher feelings, in the end, all the thinking, it's all the brain.

But it is something that is higher than these nervous impulses. They, of course, participate in this, but higher. And this whole mechanics, such a psychic mechanics, is done by another science - psychology.

I've been studying psychophysiology all my life. It's something in the middle between physiology and psychopsychology. How, based on nerve impulses and all this material mechanics of the brain, a mental world is born. But the further I deal with this, the clearer it becomes to me that we are not approaching the answer to this question, but we are moving away.

Many details are being explained, and they become difficult to explain. Can we read a person's thoughts? We have already said that the localization of functions in the brain is very accurate, but only in relation to the organs of feelings.

and motor activity. So, of course, we can see that if in some motor area some nerve cells started to work, we look, what are these nerve cells? They belong to the fingers. Probably, it moves with the fingers. But we don't even know how it moves. Because we can't decipher this combination of activities. And what, in fact, does it do with these fingers? But some such rude phenomena of the psychic world

Maybe we could track their intentions. It's not a specific thought, but something before the thought, something unclear, but the person wants to squeeze his hand into his fist. And then we can try to see if there is a response in the brain.

This is our intention, this is our task in our laboratory. We put a lot of sensors in the electroencephalography method, and we see the echoes of the electrical life of the brain in the splashes of this electroencephalogram, there are many, many channels. And we tell a person: "Work with your fingers." We look further, analyze, if there is any problem.

There is. In a certain area, and also, as a rule, on the other side. If I do something with my right hand, then these changes are visible to the left of the brain. But I do it really, with muscles, I move them. And if I just imagine, I don't do anything with my hand, I just imagine. It turns out that in the same area changes also happen. And it turns out that we can grasp this intention. But if, for example, we tell a person, think about an orange, and now think about a car.

No other laboratory in the world can recognize this. Steadily. When we talk about detection, there are always some chances. Right or wrong. So, if it's an orange or a tangerine, the chances are 50/50. That is, not by chance.

If we talk about the right hand or the left hand, the chances are increased to 90%. We have already said that this map can be made for an orange, and then for a car. We will make a difference, and in some places there is a discrepancy. That is, this map will be different in some way. In 5 minutes, for example, think again, it will be different again, but in other places.

Because it has complex functions. I think about orange, it is sour, sweet, orange. And how many times I will remember this orange, it will appear in my head in different colors all the time. If it is presented differently even in these MRT maps, then it is already similar to a tangerine, and it is already similar to a car. This is only about one image. And what about the connection between images, thoughts?

Why do scientists try to read thoughts? In 2011, that is, more than 10 years ago, we already had a system in our laboratory that allows a person to sit in front of a computer screen, do nothing, say nothing, but nevertheless collect text with mental efforts. This was done for people who were paralyzed after the stroke, because they can't do anything. And for them, this is now a neurochat system.

500 of our complexes are now operated by hospitals. We have just discussed with you that we can detect the intention of a person to shake his hand. This can also be used for patients, because if the hand is paralyzed, then you can work with the imagination of this hand. A person imagines and activates the brain area, which should be rebuilt. Some nerve cells stopped working due to the stroke, but there are many other cells that can capture this function. But this function must be organized.

The image, the imagination starts to reorganize these cells again, there is no movement yet, but small movements begin, and so you can restore.

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Do nerve cells ever rest? Almost every moment, all 100% of cells have some kind of support for their work. But this does not mean that the cell gives out 100 impulses every second. No, it can be silent for a whole minute, but then something will work. And so any cell that you do not take, if you bring an electrode there, you see that you

It works from time to time, but it doesn't work continuously. All cells are 100% of the brain. The brain is so built, the cells are so expensive, they consume a lot of energy, that no one will keep an excess of it. That is, as soon as the cell freezes for some more or less long time, then there is a special gene in the cells that turns it off not just from work, but from life.

the process of dying of this cell starts. Apoptosis. And so, about 10-15 thousand of the homeless cells die every day. I don't know why they die, but it's a fact. 10-15 thousand. They lived a day, and there are 10 thousand cells.

It's not a big deal, because it's a regular extinction. These cells that have fallen out of activity, if we count for 100 years, for example, 10,000 every day, I counted for 100 years, it's 500 million cells.

500 million is a lot, but we have 86 billion of them, that is, it is only half a billion in 100 years. Well, nothing, yes, you can live for half a billion less. Moreover, you know, if during severe operations the cancer lasts for a long time,

then, of course, some cells will be silent and will not work for a long time. And here, everywhere, there is such an anesthesiologist who is competent and keeps this anesthesia at a minimum level. But if you fall a little deeper, then the gene may consider that the cell is not needed, since it does not work for a long time. Therefore, indeed, even in such situations, cells can die additionally. If the anesthesia had passed, they would have worked, but it's too late. How to prevent dementia?

I want to say that it is very difficult to find a disease of nerve cells. Nerve cells are some kind of terribly living. If pathological problems arise, it is not about nerve cells.

or some problems with the vessels, sclerotic changes. You ask, for example, Alzheimer's disease. These are diseases not only related to the vessels, but also to the fact that proteins are incorrectly synthesized around these cells. Such proteins accumulate, which literally do not allow them to breathe. Again, this is not a problem of the nervous system. It will not be possible to overpower these diseases with some special memory training or some other skills.

This is a systemic disease with completely different causes. It's not like if we are lazy, do nothing, watch soap operas, then we will have senile dementia soon. But we are talking about cognitive dysfunction, not just memory.

become more noticeable in people who do not use them. If there is no training, even if there are no systemic diseases, the function will be lost.

Many people retire, get old, lose mobility, and use their own abilities in a smaller amount. This is the main reason for the loss of cognitive functions - not being able to train. In these cases, everyone needs to maintain their cognitive status at a high level.

Well, you worked as a great scientist, now you are not working as a scientist, but somehow go to another level, but the same intensity of intellectual labor. Or continue to study your theories as much as you want. It is important that the power of this cognitive labor does not decrease, such subtlety, subtlety, all this should continue. Then this part will be at the same level as at 35 years old.

How to make sure that cells don't die, that they all work intensively, and so on. It's better to learn and learn and learn. This is the maximum use of brain resources. Because when you work, you use the skills you already have, and you don't have to worry about it. But learning and learning is important. Second language, something else. Why some people have better memory, and others have worse?

Probably for the same reason that some have better common abilities, others have worse. But it also adds to how systematically a person has learned this world.

Because a lot is remembered simply because it is in the system. For example, some school theorems that needed to be proved, trigonometric theorems. If you feel it in the system, how it happens, then you don't need to remember the evidence. It is enough to draw this figure and everything begins to appear. And if it is not ingrained in the system, then yes, you just need to remember. And here comes the power of pure memory.

And mechanical memory. Well, in the first case, it is also memory, because it is built into the system, it is easier to get. We already said that there is a mechanism of memory, and there are mechanisms of reproduction. Here, basically, we lose to the mechanisms of reproduction, we cannot remember. It is there. And the more systemic our knowledge is built, our memory is built, the easier the access is. Because you can get to this place in different ways.

Why is it difficult for us to concentrate for a long time? Higher cognitive functions, memory, operational memory, first of all, and the ability to focus attention, they are exploited less and less. But it is precisely because since childhood we are now being offered ready-made solutions, we are given the opportunity to change the plot.

Switch the TV to one, to the other, to the third, to the tenth program. It's a temptation. What's there, what's here, what's here? And such a slide on the surface. Such an intellectual ice. And that's why you slide on the ice and it seems like you get a lot of information, but not deep.

It's easier to get used to it than to go deeper. Because the deeper a phenomenon is, the harder it is to understand, to read something else, to ask someone something. And here you jump from one to another. And a person does not feel that he is getting poorer. His intellectual power loses power.

But you don't feel that you don't know the depth. Because you will rarely get some kind of boredom that starts to ask: "Stop, stop, stop, wait, how is it arranged?" There are the same people all around. And they know: "And you heard such news, I heard such news at this stage." And the same thing in the transmission of information. Look, our transmission of information is simplified.

You can say to people that you are happy, but you are not happy. And I don't care. And here I have a person with tears, something is wrong with me. All this is from the richness of human language, some separate episodes, separate signals are released, and we return to animals. Because animals live without language, they exchange signals.

And there are ways to get out of this situation for every person. But it's hard for him to make an effort to get out.

Meditations are useful? A person must voluntarily force himself not to get involved further. And we have everything arranged like this. And especially the modern world is pushing us to get involved further and further. The situation is not favorable. We start arguing with her, fighting. And this also increases all kinds of development, which also make the whole thing worse. Instead of sitting

think about it, see if there are any solutions. Maybe the situation is not as we think it is, maybe it is actually favorable. Maybe a person will deceive himself. But if it is good for you, and if it does not threaten your life, let's say a fire, I will think, no, no, it's not a fire, it's the sun shining. This is wrong, of course.

We shouldn't be disgusting either. But we always interpret situations. A situation as such is not given to us directly. It is always given in the instructions. It is in your head. Once it is in your head, then understand it in your head for the beginning.

These are all mental training. We can not call them meditations, some kind of self-training, etc. These are just mental training that everyone can do. The term meditation is translated from Greek as "thinking", no more. Therefore, yes, if you answer the question: "Does meditation help?" That is, thinking, deconstructing this situation, then reassembling it, of course, helps. But not everyone can do it.

Is there a future for cryonics? There are questions that need to be tried. What is the problem? Let me try, although I don't need to experiment with a person, cut off the head, then revive. Okay, a mouse. Where?

Where is the vitality of the mouse after freezing? Let it be a whole mouse. Live in it. The theory says that the brain begins to collapse, not stop, but collapse about five minutes after stopping the blood circulation. This science is needed. For example, egg cells are perfectly frozen and defrosted. But this is not an information analytical device of 86 billion nerve cells. The egg cell is one cell.

There are many technologies to keep it alive for a long time. But here, the cluster of cells is a big information and analytical machine. There are 10, 20, 30 thousand cells, but they will no longer be together after the stroke. What kind of person will it be? Therefore, there are no theoretical grounds to hope that something good will happen there. It seems to me that this is purely a business point.

It can be harmless, because relatives hope that they did a good deed, that the times will come and their relatives will live. The most important knowledge about our brain. If we close our eyes, the world does not crumble into pieces, it lives in some kind of whole.

I suspect that the human brain was created by nature, polished to such an extent that it can create mental models of the physical world.

that is, dynamic models, as a new virtual environment. That is, we have a virtual environment of this outer world in our head, and it is very, very similar to the outer world. And it turns out that we live in a physical world, but we use this world as a mental model as a map. A reconstructed world, reconstructed for each person, for themselves,

and reconstructed in such a way that it would be comfortable for him to live in it, as much as possible.