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Harrisburg Zoning Hearing Board Meeting 5/18/26

2:25:37EnglishTranscribed Jun 15, 2026
0:00

meeting of the Harrisburg uh zoning

0:02

hearing board. Okay. Uh to my to my

0:07

right is Mr. James Hobs, myself, Claude

0:10

Phipps, and our solicitor Mike Connors.

0:14

Okay. And joining us from the city was

0:18

Okay. Miss Cameron who's a city

0:21

solicitor. Okay. City solicitor.

0:25

>> We'll make you a city. Yeah. We'll get

0:28

you.

0:30

Yeah. Well, we got to check and our

0:34

director of planning, Mr. Jeffrey

0:37

Knight. Okay. And to his left is I could

0:42

get your last name.

0:44

>> Stephanie.

0:45

>> Miss

0:46

Thompson.

0:47

>> Mr. Stephanie Thompson. Okay. So um

0:51

with this a little new u preamble uh

0:56

zoning hearing board um we our cases put

1:01

in front of us people who are bringing

1:02

the cases will be able to speak anybody

1:06

in in the audience who wants to speak on

1:09

any on any of the subjects has to be

1:11

gerine to the topic that's being raised

1:15

property. Okay. And they have to be that

1:17

be in somewhat close proximity to that

1:19

property. Okay. Again, we're a legal

1:22

entity. So, um we have aer

1:26

that the courts everything for, you

1:29

know, appeal has to happen which that

1:31

will go up to the court. The court

1:34

doesn't need to come please or uh

1:36

commonwealth court. So, to that effect,

1:38

I'm going to turn.

1:40

>> All right. Uh yes, Michael Oconor the

1:42

solicitor. Um and as uh Mr. Fipps was

1:45

explaining that we do have a

1:46

stenographer here who's taking all the

1:48

testimony down. Um all the witnesses uh

1:51

will be sworn in. Um you know the

1:55

applicant, Mr. Knight, anybody else who

1:57

will testify.

1:59

Um so with that, I will call though the

2:02

first application

2:05

um is 2628

2:08

uh 1854-1860

2:10

Walnut Street. Um, and it was the

2:15

applicant is Arya.

2:18

Is it Arya Carmazin?

2:21

Okay. Arya here.

2:27

Okay. Um, all right. We'll just push

2:30

that to the to the back. We'll push that

2:32

to the end um to see if they do arrive.

2:36

So, the next uh so many Mr. chokes.

2:40

We'll get through we'll get through

2:42

those applications.

2:45

Okay. So,

2:48

um that is we'll start with 2634.

2:51

Uh the address is 1644 Market Street

2:56

and um the applicant actually is uh

2:59

Keystone Property Service. Um and with

3:02

that, why don't we swear in the uh

3:05

planning director, Mr. night. Uh, first

3:12

>> I do.

3:13

>> Okay. And then we'll swear in uh the

3:15

applicant.

3:20

>> I do.

3:21

>> Okay. And just state your name also for

3:23

the record there.

3:24

>> My name is Robert A. Shooks Jr.

3:26

>> Okay. And here on behalf of Keystone?

3:28

>> Yes. I'm the owner of Keystone Property

3:29

Service LLC.

3:30

>> Okay. Great. U. So, I'm going to read in

3:34

um

3:36

the exhibits for the board exhibits for

3:40

this application and then we'll turn it

3:42

over to uh Mr. Knight for uh you know

3:47

background on the application. Um and

3:50

then we'll go from there to the

3:52

testimony of the applicant. So, we'll

3:54

start with B1 is a proof of publication

3:56

in the Patriot News April 5 and April

3:58

12, 2026. B2 is a letter sent from the

4:02

planning director to the applicant

4:04

notifying of the hearing. B3 is the

4:05

hearing notice posting on the property.

4:08

B4 notification letter sent to neighbors

4:10

and certificate of mailing. B5 the

4:13

application packet with photos of the

4:15

property and floor plans. B6 is a power

4:18

of attorney authorizing applicant as

4:21

agent and attorney in fact of the

4:22

property. B7 is uh the deed establishing

4:26

the owner of the property. B8, the

4:28

planning bureau case report. B9, city of

4:31

Harrisburg planning commission

4:33

resolution. And since this had to be

4:36

continued from the last time, we have a

4:37

couple other exhibits. B10 is then a

4:39

proof of publication for tonight's

4:41

meeting, uh, May 3, 2026, and May 10,

4:44

2026, and a letter sent from the

4:47

planning director notifying the

4:48

applicant of of tonight's hearing

4:50

because there was just an advertising

4:52

issue last time. So, with that, we'll

4:54

turn it over to Mr. tonight for a um a

4:57

description of the application, the

4:59

property, that type of thing.

5:00

>> Yep. Uh so, good afternoon, zoning

5:02

hearing board. Uh so, the application

5:04

for 1644 Market Street, uh case number

5:07

2634

5:09

uh is very similar to three previous

5:11

reviews that the board uh has had for uh

5:14

Mr. Shok's properties. Um again, all

5:16

after the fact uh applications. Um those

5:19

were uh 923

5:22

uh North 18th Street, 1923 State Street,

5:25

and 514 Emerald Street. Um so the issues

5:28

are are very uh similar. Um in this

5:31

case, the applicant has converted a

5:32

single family dwelling into a three-unit

5:34

multif family dwelling, which require

5:36

zoning hearing board approval, special

5:37

exceptions for the proposed use and

5:39

relief from the All Street parking

5:40

requirements per section 7-305.7 and

5:43

7-327.6 six of the zoning code

5:46

respectively and variances for relief

5:48

from the density and specific criteria

5:49

regulations in section 7-307.3

5:53

and 7-309.2V

5:55

of the zoning code respectively. Uh in

5:57

in this case again uh the applicant um

6:00

had purchased uh the property um I

6:03

believe in uh 2016 I want to say um and

6:09

uh in coordination uh with uh the codes

6:13

bureau uh they did um submit building

6:16

permit applications uh did have those

6:18

applications uh reviewed and approved by

6:21

the codes bureau. Um however they did

6:23

not receive the necessary review by uh

6:26

the planning bureau and uh that is of

6:28

course not um I would say the

6:31

applicant's responsibility that did not

6:32

happen internally with uh within between

6:34

the codes bureau and the planning bureau

6:37

um but it did come to our attention uh

6:39

in review of a floodplane zoning

6:42

certificate uh which was uh recently

6:44

filed uh for the property and I believe

6:46

uh the applicant kind of attested uh

6:49

during the last meeting um to uh how we

6:53

came about bringing these before the

6:55

zoning hearing board where uh they had a

6:57

variety of uh properties and uh these

7:00

seven uh the three we previously heard

7:02

and the four that will be heard tonight

7:03

uh were the ones where there was some

7:05

discrepancy and of course that was kind

7:07

of the pro purpose of the uh revised um

7:10

flood plane uh certification application

7:13

and pro review process. Um in this case

7:17

uh the uh property was uh fairly

7:20

deteriorated. Um it uh in fact the uh

7:24

structure uh just to the east of the

7:26

property uh at 1646 Market Street has

7:30

been demolished. I believe that might

7:31

have been demolished by the city. Uh so

7:33

there is kind of a gap between that

7:34

building and 1648 Market Street. Um and

7:37

so a lot of the same uh issues are

7:39

inherent in this property. Um a lengthy

7:42

history of condemnation. uh various

7:45

citations for uh legal dumping, high

7:47

grass and weeds, things of that nature.

7:49

Um and uh the plane bureau kind of tried

7:51

to look at this similarly as the uh past

7:54

reviews where we looked at it not kind

7:57

of in its current configuration but um

8:00

as we would have reviewed it had it come

8:02

to us at that time. Um and so as opposed

8:05

to um the other uh reviews, we did

8:09

actually have a recommendation uh for

8:12

this property uh that um one of the

8:15

units uh on the third floor be uh

8:18

removed from the site. Um and this is

8:20

due to uh our belief that there was

8:22

probably less of a justification for

8:24

that. It's a kind of one unitit um

8:26

studio up there on the third floor. so

8:28

it can more easily be combined with the

8:30

unit that's on the second floor uh to

8:32

create just a larger unit that can you

8:33

know accommodate a family. Um and uh the

8:38

um other issue uh is the uh

8:42

consideration of off- streetet parking.

8:44

Uh so at the rear of the lot there is

8:45

kind of a deteriorated garage. Uh it's

8:47

still intact but it doesn't look

8:49

operable. Um when we did site visits out

8:52

to the property there were just cars

8:53

kind of parked in front of the garage

8:55

door in the alley. Um and so the

8:59

requirement the off street parking

9:00

requirements for a three-unit building

9:01

would be four spaces whereas for a

9:03

two-unit building they'd be two. So the

9:05

impact uh with respect to the off street

9:07

parking would be doubled between two and

9:09

three. And again between that and the

9:11

justifications inherent in the property

9:13

we felt that uh the um proposal that we

9:18

felt that a conversion to two units

9:19

would be more appropriate than one for

9:21

three. Uh so with that being said uh the

9:24

planning commission recommended that the

9:26

zoning hearing board approved the

9:27

request uh with the following

9:29

conditions. Uh the applicant should be

9:31

limited to two units on site in contrast

9:32

to other similar applications filed by

9:34

the applicant. Subject property was

9:36

transferred between entities owned by or

9:38

affiliated with the applicant and was

9:40

not purchased from a different

9:41

individual or entity as part of the t

9:42

judicial sale. Additionally granting

9:44

approval for two units would minimize

9:46

deviation from the zoning code and

9:48

reduce the impacts on the adjacent

9:49

properties and surrounding neighborhood.

9:51

If granted zoning approval to formalize

9:53

a conversion to either two or three

9:54

units, the applicant shall allow the

9:57

codes bureau to perform a comprehensive

9:58

inspection to identify any outstanding

10:00

code violations and will receive

10:02

approval for all necessary city permits

10:03

prior to receiving a certificate of

10:06

occupancy. And again uh in coordination

10:09

with the applicant um as discussed at

10:12

the last month's meetings uh the ongoing

10:14

rental inspections they have had we do

10:16

feel that they have met their burden uh

10:19

with respect to this condition. And

10:21

finally the third is that the applicant

10:23

must either repair or demolish the

10:24

existing detached garage at the rear of

10:26

the property to establish a formal legal

10:28

off- streetet parking space for

10:29

residents. And that's largely uh just to

10:31

ensure that that rear space can be used

10:34

uh to provide some accommodation of

10:36

parking for tenants and their guests. Uh

10:38

again, whether that's fixing it up and

10:40

just using it as is or demolishing the

10:42

whole thing and creating a parking pad.

10:44

Uh the planning commission recommends

10:46

the zoning hearing board to approve the

10:47

request for the following reasons. Uh

10:49

while the circumstances surrounding the

10:51

past conversion are unclear, the

10:52

planning bureau can confirm a history of

10:54

condemnations related to property

10:56

maintenance and insufficient utilities

10:57

on site and notes the conditions of the

10:59

abuing property required it to be

11:01

demolished somewhat recently in post uh

11:04

August 2023. As such, there appears to

11:06

be or have been some justification for

11:08

conversion to multiple units, although

11:09

the bureau believes that only two units

11:11

are justified. And also, the property is

11:13

located in a mixeduse corridor featuring

11:15

convenience stores, churches, and other

11:17

converted properties. and thus a

11:18

two-unit conversion would not create

11:20

adverse impacts on the surrounding

11:21

neighborhood.

11:24

>> Okay.

11:26

All right, Mr. Schopes. Uh then you can

11:29

testify in support of the application.

11:31

>> Uh I have uh coordinated with Mr. Niter

11:35

over I want to say

11:38

shortly after the last planning meeting

11:41

I agreed to the to the uh his

11:43

recommendations and uh it it it makes

11:45

sense. The the garage needs to go. The

11:47

garage is dilapitated. It got boarded up

11:50

basically when it became used in the

11:53

neighborhood by as a dumping ground and

11:55

not by for parking for the for the folks

11:57

that were living there. And so that

11:59

became a problem. And so it just it just

12:00

got closed up and and so it's been

12:03

dilapitated over time. Needs to be

12:05

demolished and removed and made into a

12:06

parking pad. The space that's that's

12:08

beneath it, it's it's a slab. It's a

12:10

concrete slab inside the garage. So it

12:12

will support the parking. So that's the

12:13

simplest um remedy there. Uh, as for the

12:17

third floor apartment, we had some

12:19

discussion there, I believe, at the

12:20

planning commission as to how to address

12:22

the uh the long-standing tenant there.

12:24

Uh, we've already um offered to and

12:28

moved that tenant to another apartment

12:30

to have. And so, he's he is that is now

12:32

vacant. It's been closed up. Power shut

12:35

off. There's no longer water supply

12:37

going to the third floor. There are

12:39

plans uh after this uh assuming assuming

12:43

approval here at the board here this

12:45

evening to go ahead and incorporate that

12:48

into the second floor unit as Mr. Knight

12:50

has uh described. It's easy enough to

12:52

do. It's just another stairwell and

12:54

we'll a partition wall to to make that

12:56

uh transition easier. Um, I don't think

12:59

there's a lot else to say here other

13:01

than to recognize that uh I believe in

13:03

my last meeting. Uh, this this property

13:06

was was an example I had used as to how

13:08

we had uh originally gotten to this

13:11

point in that that this was a property

13:12

that one of the codes inspectors had

13:14

come to and we had gone down to the

13:16

basement and seen whether it was a three

13:17

gang uh gas meter installed. So, this

13:21

had been a three unit at some point in

13:23

time or at least there had been three

13:25

gas meters at one point in time. don't

13:27

know that I could say that it had been a

13:28

three-unit. Uh certainly it was not in

13:30

the configuration that we had done.

13:32

>> Right.

13:33

>> Uh so so I I think uh Mr. Knight is is

13:37

spot on here that we can easily

13:38

incorporate the third floor unit into

13:40

the second floor that makes it u a

13:42

little more profitable. Certainly uh

13:45

still allows for for rooms uh to to rent

13:47

and that kind of thing. Um so I I don't

13:50

see any issue with that moving forward.

13:53

And with the with the parking then,

13:55

right, even even with that the garage

13:57

being removed, the the parking pad is

13:59

still there. But is it just gonna it'll

14:02

be one space? I understand they're going

14:04

to require two with two units, right?

14:07

Two spaces.

14:08

>> It's a double wide garage.

14:10

>> Okay. So, it can accommodate

14:11

>> wide enough and on the uh on the parking

14:13

pad there to support two vehicles.

14:15

>> Okay. All right.

14:17

>> It's a tight fit, but it's just barely

14:19

wide enough.

14:20

>> It's a tight fit.

14:21

>> Okay. All right.

14:22

>> Walmart parking lot fit,

14:24

>> right?

14:30

>> Good evening, sir.

14:31

>> Thank you.

14:32

>> Yes, I tend to be a Mosy Parker. I

14:34

actually went past your building and

14:36

went in the back too for the garage

14:38

where you're going to put the pan out.

14:40

Um, and yes, that's going to be a very

14:43

interesting navigating cars down to get

14:45

to get around that corner to move into

14:48

that. But, um, I think you

14:51

recommendation from planning is status

14:54

32

14:59

park usage

15:01

go I actually I went looking for 1644

15:05

and I said that's a that's a lot that's

15:07

they already took you already took that

15:09

down so but any you guys have any

15:12

interest in basically maybe acquiring

15:14

that and additional housing there

15:17

>> are we talking about the vacant lot

15:19

>> yes Uh, no I don't think so.

15:22

>> Last and we always ask the financial

15:25

question a little bit and these this is

15:27

going to be apartments instead of a

15:29

room.

15:30

>> Yes. Yes. I'm sorry. I I I I mistakenly

15:33

said the room were room but it simply

15:35

means instead of a two-bedroom it'll be

15:36

a three-bedroom apartment.

15:38

>> Okay. Yeah. Clarification on that and

15:42

>> pricing fair market.

15:44

>> Fair market value. Yes.

15:45

>> Okay. I I actually had that discussion

15:48

with somebody we use for fair market

15:50

value.

15:50

>> It's tough.

15:51

>> Do you understand that in Harrisburg

15:53

with six different sections of

15:55

Harrisburg? Um the income levels in

15:59

those areas vary. Okay. And it's it's

16:03

not flat. You market values in

16:05

Harrisburg, but you take that in

16:06

consideration because of the area where

16:09

the property is going to be located and

16:11

and the people who are going to be

16:12

moving into that, your your customers.

16:15

Yes,

16:16

>> you take that in consideration.

16:17

>> Absolutely. The market the market tells

16:19

us exactly what it is that fair market

16:22

there because uh once it's been on the

16:24

market for two months at a certain price

16:26

point, you you have to bring the price

16:29

point down or or you just have a vacant

16:31

building. We've been in business long

16:33

enough, you know, after 12 years to to

16:35

know what that is. And we we've tried to

16:38

stay just a hair below in hopes that

16:43

maybe we get I I don't know potentially

16:47

longer lasting tenants. Um I don't know

16:49

that that's been the case, but we've had

16:51

COVID in the middle of all that. So it's

16:52

really hard to to say. I thought we were

16:54

doing quite well before. Since then,

16:56

maybe not so much.

16:59

>> 19th Street going down to 13th Street.

17:02

That was

17:04

it was five and then the It's

17:07

deteriorated.

17:08

>> So your customer base there

17:11

>> is a little bit different than what it

17:13

was when I grew up here and when I went

17:15

to school used to walk past

17:16

>> couldn't couldn't agree more. One of the

17:18

most compartmentalized cities I've been

17:19

in.

17:23

So thank you.

17:28

>> Yeah, I'm good. I mean, based on the

17:29

context of all of the applicants

17:32

applications and the cases that we're

17:34

we're hearing on his behalf, um, you

17:37

know, as long as there's agreement to

17:38

the conditions, which it seems as there

17:40

is raised, then I'm clear on everything.

17:43

>> And I spoke

17:45

before, you know, it had already been

17:47

converted and I, you know, was less in

17:50

my hair. Got up there. I I know a lot of

17:53

your applications are places that you're

17:55

converting your multi family dwellings,

17:57

but seems like they have been converted

17:59

before and now we're just cleaning up

18:01

the paperwork making sure it's

18:03

>> it's legal. So

18:05

>> there there should be consistency across

18:07

the departments I would think.

18:08

>> Right.

18:09

>> Yes.

18:10

>> Okay. Are you ready for a motion?

18:13

>> Okay. So is there a motion uh to approve

18:17

application 2634 which is a special

18:20

exception to establish a two-unit multif

18:23

family dwelling? Um no relief for

18:26

parking is ne is necessary and also um

18:30

also approved the two uh the two

18:33

dimensional variances

18:35

uh one for the specific criteria

18:38

uh for a multif family dwelling

18:40

conversion and one for the uh density

18:42

requirements

18:44

um con and uh along with the conditions

18:47

established by the planning commission.

18:50

>> Motion.

18:51

>> Okay. Is there a second?

18:52

>> Second.

18:53

>> All right. All in favor?

18:54

>> I.

18:55

>> All right. So then with that, obviously,

18:57

Mr. Shokes, then decision will be sent

19:00

uh to you and we'll move on to the next

19:03

one. And

19:07

Mr. Knight, we can consider yourself

19:09

sworn in for this one as well. And I

19:13

believe it is the same applicant,

19:15

correct?

19:16

>> Okay. Mr. Shes, then we can you can

19:19

consider yourself sworn in as well.

19:21

>> Yes, sir.

19:22

>> Okay.

19:23

All right. So, we have 2635

19:27

>> 1901 Forester Street, right?

19:30

>> Y.

19:30

>> Okay.

19:32

>> All reading the exhibits and then turn

19:34

it over to Mr. Knight. So, um,

19:38

we have proof of publication April 5 and

19:41

April 12, 2026. B2, letter sent from

19:44

planning director to applicant notifying

19:46

of the hearing. B3, hearing notice

19:48

posted on the property. B4, notification

19:51

letter sent to neighbors and certificate

19:52

of mailing. B5, application packet with

19:55

photos of the property and floor plans.

19:57

B6, power of attorney authorizing

19:59

applicant as agent and attorney in fact

20:01

of the property. B7, deed establishing

20:04

the owner of the property. B8, planning

20:06

bureau case report. B9, city of

20:08

Harrisburg planning commission

20:09

resolution. B10, the proof of

20:12

publication for tonight's meeting, May 3

20:14

and May 10, 2026.

20:16

and a letter uh sent from the planning

20:18

director to the applicant notifying of

20:20

tonight's hearing. So, we got B1 through

20:22

B11. And with that, I will turn it over

20:25

to Mr. Knight. Uh so, yes, this uh case

20:30

um is u similar but slightly different

20:32

uh than the last one. Um the application

20:36

for 1901 Forester Street uh involves the

20:38

conversion of an existing single family

20:40

dwelling into a two-unit multif family

20:42

dwelling uh which requires zoning

20:44

hearing bird approval of special

20:45

exceptions for the proposed use and

20:47

relief from off- streetet parking

20:48

requirements per section 7-305.7

20:51

7-327.6

20:53

of the zoning code respectively. uh but

20:55

only one variance uh for relief from the

20:57

density regulations in section 7-307.3

21:00

of the zoning code as the lot itself is

21:02

large enough uh or sorry as the building

21:04

itself is large enough to be converted

21:06

to multiple units um by right in

21:08

conformance with the specific criteria.

21:10

Uh so this um property again similar uh

21:15

to the last one in that it has a

21:17

detached garage in the back uh with um

21:20

at least space for one vehicle. Um and

21:23

the building itself was converted uh

21:25

some point in the past again in

21:27

coordination uh with uh the codes

21:30

bureau. Um and the um lack of interior

21:33

of internal coordination between the

21:35

codes bureau and the planning bureau is

21:36

why this issue is now being is is being

21:39

addressed now and not uh back then um

21:42

when the uh conversion occurred. Uh in

21:45

contrast to the last case uh though this

21:47

property is a corner lot. Um so it does

21:50

have a significant amount of frontage uh

21:53

along both Forester Street and 19th

21:55

Street. Um, so in the event that the uh

21:59

detached garage at the rear of the

22:00

property, which does seem operable, much

22:02

more so than the last property, um, is

22:05

only able to accommodate one car, uh,

22:07

the applicant does have, um, the

22:11

sufficient on street frontage along the

22:12

property to accommodate any, uh,

22:14

additional demand from tenants or, uh,

22:17

their guests. Uh and uh therefore the

22:21

planning commission uh recommends the

22:23

zoning hearing board approve the request

22:24

with the following conditions. Uh

22:26

granted zoning approval to move forward

22:28

with the project as proposed. The

22:29

applicant shall allow the codes bureau

22:30

bureau to perform a comprehensive

22:32

inspection to identify any outstanding

22:34

code issues and will receive approval

22:36

for all necessary city permits prior to

22:37

receiving a certificate of occupancy. Uh

22:40

the planning commission recommends the

22:42

zoning hearing board to approve the

22:43

request for the following reasons. In

22:44

contrast to other such conversions, the

22:46

structure itself is large enough for a

22:48

buy right conversion to two units, thus

22:50

reducing the amount intensity of zoning

22:51

relief and providing some justification

22:53

for the current request. And as a

22:55

current lot, as a corner lot, the

22:57

property has a onecar detached garage

22:59

and enough frontage along both 19th

23:00

Street and Forester Street to reasonably

23:03

accommodate the two off- streetet

23:04

parking spaces required for the use,

23:06

thereby reducing the impact of the

23:07

presumed increase in parking demand on

23:09

the surrounding residents.

23:11

>> Okay. And um Mr. Tonight you you prepare

23:15

the planning bureau case reports.

23:16

Correct.

23:17

>> That's correct.

23:18

>> Okay. And do you adopt that as your

23:20

testimony that complete report instead

23:22

of stating everything and reading it

23:24

into the record?

23:25

>> Yes.

23:26

>> Okay. Good. All right. Um

23:29

then we can turn over Mr. Sch. Go ahead.

23:33

>> I'm in agreement.

23:37

The battery power is not in agreement.

23:40

Okay.

23:40

>> But I'll speak louder. I'm in agreement

23:42

with

23:50

pass.

23:51

>> Are you good?

23:52

>> Everybody good?

23:53

>> This was Yeah, I you answered the

23:56

questions to 1644. It's the same thing.

23:58

I I did see there's no parking

24:01

requirements there parking on both 19th

24:03

Street and Officer Street. So that

24:05

satisfies the question I have.

24:07

>> Okay. And Mr. folks, right? This is like

24:09

a just a similar situation that you had

24:12

with the prior application that we had,

24:15

you know, with dilapidated property and

24:17

all that kind of thing, right? That you

24:19

upgra significantly upgraded, right?

24:22

>> Correct. It was uh primarily

24:23

distribution for

24:26

illicit materials uh in the neighborhood

24:29

for a long time. So, we converted it

24:32

from the storefront

24:34

that it had to

24:36

a stairwell entry. I don't know if you

24:38

remember the door when you look up there

24:39

in the front, you can see how it used to

24:40

be a sandwich shop or corner store. Uh

24:43

that's actually an entry stairwell up to

24:46

the second floor apartment. So they have

24:47

wide enough stairwell to be able to get

24:50

furniture up and down. It's 4 and 1/2 ft

24:52

wide there. Um so u that uh kind of put

24:56

an end to it. Uh so after we showed a

24:58

little bit of love in the neighborhood

25:00

uh that activity stopped

25:02

>> and it's been operating, you know, as

25:05

the uh two-unit multif family dwelling

25:08

>> last eight years, right? Yep.

25:10

>> Yes.

25:11

>> Okay. With that, uh do I have a motion

25:13

to approve application 2635, the special

25:17

exceptions requested and the dimensional

25:19

variance requested?

25:20

>> So move.

25:21

>> Okay. Is there a second?

25:22

>> Second.

25:23

>> Okay. Let me go back. A motion to

25:26

approve with the conditions. Weren't

25:27

there conditions? Yes, there were

25:29

>> one condition. Yeah.

25:30

>> Okay. Well, let me go back. Uh, is there

25:32

a motion to approve application 2635,

25:35

the special exceptions requested and the

25:37

dimensional variance subject to the uh

25:39

conditions stated by the planning

25:41

commission?

25:42

>> So, move.

25:43

>> Okay. Is there a second?

25:44

>> Second.

25:45

>> Okay. All in favor?

25:47

>> I.

25:47

>> Okay. See, we'll get a decision out to

25:50

Mr. Sch on that one. Now, let's see. We

25:54

have

25:57

2636

26:00

and I'll ask uh Mr. Knight that um

26:04

obviously you'll consider yourself sworn

26:06

in for this application as well.

26:08

Correct.

26:08

>> Correct.

26:09

>> All right, Mr. Shes um you consider

26:12

yourself sworn in for this application

26:13

as well. Correct.

26:14

>> Yes, sir.

26:15

>> All right. So, we got 2636 the address

26:19

2040 North 4th Street.

26:22

um same applicant. Um and I will read in

26:25

the exhibits and then turn it over to

26:27

Mr. Knight. Um basically there are the

26:30

same exhibits but we got to read them

26:31

in. So B1, proof of publication April 5

26:34

and April 12, 2026. B2 letter sent from

26:38

planning director to the applicant

26:39

notifying at the hearing. B3 hearing

26:41

notice posted on the property. B4

26:44

notification letter sent to neighbors

26:45

and certificate of mailing. B5

26:47

application packet with photos of the

26:49

property and floor plans. B6, power of

26:52

attorney authorizing applicant as agent

26:54

and attorney in fact of the property.

26:56

B7, deed establish establishing the

26:58

owner of the property. B8, planning

27:00

bureau case report. B9, city of

27:02

Harrisburg planning commission

27:03

resolution. B10, proof of publication

27:05

for tonight's meeting uh and the Patriot

27:07

news May 3, 2026 and May 10, 2026. Then

27:11

a letter sent from the planning director

27:13

to the applicant notifying of tonight's

27:15

hearing. So we got B1 through B11.

27:19

And with that, Mr. Knight, go ahead.

27:21

>> Uh, yeah. So, the applicant for case

27:24

number 2636, um, similar uh to the last

27:27

two proposals, um, and will be similar

27:29

to the next, uh, which is the adjacent

27:31

property, um, requiring the special

27:34

exceptions for the proposed use and the

27:36

relief from the off- streetet parking

27:37

requirements and variances for the

27:40

relief from the density and specific

27:41

criteria regulations. And this is also

27:43

an after the-act application. Uh this

27:46

property is a similar history uh to the

27:50

other two properties in that there was a

27:52

uh lengthy record of condemnations

27:55

um of uh utility shut offs of uh legal

27:59

dumping uh on the property and uh prior

28:02

to the purchase by the applicant. Um and

28:05

uh the applicant uh in fact you can see

28:08

some of the uh exterior issues that that

28:11

the property had. I believe there's a

28:12

big um parched or uh vinyl sighting on

28:15

the side uh where some of the um siding

28:19

uh previously started to uh rode away.

28:21

So uh the conditions of the property

28:24

itself and the structure uh do uh

28:27

provide justification for that

28:29

conversion to multiple units. It's

28:31

likely without uh you know a um

28:34

allowance of multiple units on site. Uh

28:36

the properties would probably suffer the

28:39

same um fate as the adjacent properties

28:41

which are both vacant lots due to um

28:44

buildings on those lots being torn down.

28:47

Um and uh due to the fact that uh the uh

28:52

adjacent properties uh have been

28:54

demolished um and uh the property across

28:57

the street which occupies about half the

29:00

block uh is a church with its own

29:02

surface parking lot on site. Uh there is

29:05

um sufficient on street parking to

29:07

accommodate the two off- streetet

29:09

parking uh spaces required by the uh

29:12

required for the two uh unit use. Uh

29:15

because the rear of the property uh due

29:17

to topographical issues um it's not easy

29:20

to access that uh for off- streetet

29:22

parking without significant um uh uh

29:27

removal of soil and you know creating

29:29

retaining walls and things of that

29:30

nature. Uh there is about probably a

29:32

three-foot difference between where the

29:34

road is at in the back and the uh uh

29:36

level of the backyard. Um so uh with

29:39

that being said uh the planning

29:41

commission is recommending the zoning

29:42

hearing board approve the request with

29:44

the following conditions and same

29:46

condition as last one. Uh if granted

29:48

zoning approval to move forward with the

29:49

project as proposed the applicant shall

29:51

allow the codes bureau to perform a

29:52

comprehensive inspection to identify any

29:54

outstanding code violations and will

29:56

receive approval for all necessary city

29:57

permits prior to receiving an updated

29:59

certificate of occupancy. Uh the

30:01

planning commission recommends that the

30:02

zoning hearing board approved the

30:04

request for the following reasons.

30:05

property had a history of condemnations

30:07

for various building code deficiencies

30:08

over the years prior to the applicant's

30:10

ownership, potentially requiring more

30:12

investment than would be viable for

30:13

rehabilitation as a single family

30:15

dwelling. As such, there is

30:16

justification for the allowance of an

30:18

additional unit that would be permitted

30:19

by Wright. Uh the project reconstructed

30:22

a bleeding influence and attractive

30:23

nuisance and two units that will

30:24

contribute to the housing inventory in

30:26

the city and the neighborhood and

30:28

appears to have had a positive impact on

30:31

the amount and frequency of illegal

30:32

dumping on the adjacent vacant lots and

30:35

existing conditions of the property and

30:36

its context within the neighborhood.

30:38

Specifically, the availability of on

30:39

street parking along North Fourth Street

30:41

due to the abuing vacant lots and the

30:43

vacant church across the street mean the

30:45

proposed increase in residential density

30:46

would have a limited impact on the

30:48

surrounding community.

30:51

>> Okay. And Mr. Knight, just like the last

30:53

one, you prepared the planning bureau

30:55

case report. Correct.

30:56

>> Correct.

30:56

>> And you would adopt that also as

30:59

additional testimony in this matter.

31:00

>> Correct.

31:01

>> All right. Okay. Uh Mr. Shes,

31:04

>> um I am in agreement with everything

31:06

that Mr. and I just described.

31:08

>> Okay.

31:09

>> It's pretty straightforward.

31:10

>> Okay. And uh you prepared the

31:12

application and the attachments.

31:14

>> Yes, sir.

31:14

>> Okay. And submitted that. You adopt that

31:16

as your testimony as well. Yes, sir.

31:18

Okay.

31:18

>> Any questions for this one?

31:24

>> Okay.

31:27

>> Okay. Uh so um

31:32

do I have a motion uh to uh approve

31:35

application 2636 and the special

31:38

exceptions requested and the dimensional

31:41

variances requested with the uh subject

31:44

to the conditions established by the

31:46

planning commission?

31:48

>> Motion.

31:48

>> Okay. Do I have a second?

31:50

>> Second.

31:50

>> All right. All in favor?

31:52

>> I

31:52

>> Okay. Take the decision out for that.

31:56

And the last

32:00

this one.

32:08

Okay.

32:09

26372042

32:12

North Fourth Street. And again, Mr.

32:14

Knight, uh, consider yourself, uh, sworn

32:17

in for this application as well.

32:18

Correct. Correct.

32:19

>> Okay. Mr. Schultz, same. Consider

32:21

yourself sworn in for this application

32:23

as well?

32:24

>> Yes, sir.

32:24

>> Okay.

32:26

I'll read in the exhibits. Uh B1, proof

32:28

of publication, April 1 and April 12,

32:30

2026. B2, letter sent from planning

32:33

director to applicant notifying of the

32:34

hearing. B3, hearing notice posted on

32:37

the property. B4, notification letter

32:39

sent to neighbors and certificate of

32:41

mailing. B5, application packet, photos

32:44

of property and floor plans. B6, power

32:47

of attorney authorizing applicant as

32:49

agent and attorney fact of the property.

32:51

B7, deed establishing the owner of the

32:53

property. B8, Planning Bureau case

32:55

report. B9, City of Harrisburg Planning

32:57

Commission resolution. B10, proof of

33:00

publication, May 3 and May 10, 2026 for

33:03

tonight's meeting. And B11, letter sent

33:06

from planning director to applicant

33:08

notifying of tonight's hearing. With

33:10

that, I'll turn it over to Mr. Knight.

33:13

>> Uh, yes. So, this uh final uh

33:16

application in in the group um

33:18

represented by Mr. chokes uh for 2637

33:21

for 2042 North Fourth Street uh requires

33:25

two special exceptions for the proposed

33:27

for the multif family dwelling use uh

33:29

and the relief from off street parking

33:31

uh and two variances for relief from the

33:33

density and specific criteria

33:34

regulations uh and is an after the-act

33:36

application. Uh while the properties are

33:40

um ab budding and conjoined, uh there

33:43

actually are some minor differences

33:44

between the two, but um regarding the

33:47

the size and some access points at the

33:49

rear of the property. Uh but the

33:51

properties themselves and the structures

33:53

themselves um uh are similar in the

33:56

history of condemnations and uh um uh

34:00

the utility shut offs and uh a variety

34:05

of violations issued by the codes bureau

34:06

over the years prior to the applicant's

34:08

ownership. Um and uh the applicant uh uh

34:13

post owning post uh purchasing the

34:15

property uh did put a significant amount

34:18

investment in with uh coordination at

34:20

the codes bureau uh and did um

34:23

rehabilitate what was an attractive

34:25

nuisance and a blighting influence on

34:26

the block and uh as previously noted um

34:30

likely maybe save the uh buildings

34:32

themselves from having to be torn down.

34:34

Um and uh the context of the property

34:37

along North Fourth Street with uh

34:40

respect to the vacant lots and the um

34:42

vacant church across the street uh

34:44

create the same support for the uh

34:47

relief from the off- streetet parking

34:49

requirements uh and the same

34:51

topographical issues exist at the rear

34:52

of the property as they did at the uh

34:54

property at 242 North Fourth Street. Um

34:57

and therefore the uh planning bureau's

35:00

recom or planning commission's

35:01

recommendations

35:03

are similar in that they are

35:04

recommending the zoning hearing board

35:06

approve the request with the following

35:08

conditions. Uh if granted zoning

35:09

approval to move forward with the

35:10

project as proposed. The applicant shall

35:12

allow the codes to perform a

35:14

comprehensive inspection to identify any

35:16

outstanding code violations and will

35:18

receive approval for all necessary city

35:20

permits prior to receiving an updated

35:22

certificate of occupancy. Uh the

35:25

planning commission recommends the

35:26

zoning hearing board would approve the

35:27

request for the following reasons. The

35:29

property had a history of condemnations

35:31

for various building code deficiencies

35:32

over the years prior to the applicant's

35:34

ownership, potentially requiring more

35:35

investment than would be viable for

35:37

rehabilitation as a single family

35:38

dwelling. As such, their justification

35:40

for the allowance of an additional unit

35:42

than would be permitted by Wright. The

35:44

project reconstructed a lighting

35:45

influence and attractive nuisance into

35:47

units that will contribute to the

35:48

housing inventory in the city and the

35:49

neighborhood and appears to have had a

35:51

positive impact on the amount and

35:53

frequency of illegal dumping on the

35:54

adjacent vacant lots. And finally,

35:56

existing conditions of the property and

35:58

its context within the neighborhood,

36:00

specifically the availability of on

36:01

street parking along North Fourth Street

36:03

due to the abuing vacant lots and the

36:04

vacant church across the street mean the

36:07

proposed increase in residential density

36:08

should have a limited impact on the

36:10

surrounding community.

36:13

And Mr. Knight, once again, you prepared

36:15

the plan bureau case report, correct?

36:17

>> Correct.

36:17

>> And you adopt that as your testimony

36:19

tonight?

36:20

>> Yes, I do.

36:20

>> Okay. Mr. Sh.

36:22

>> Yes, sir.

36:24

>> Okay. Anything to add uh from what Mr.

36:27

Knight's testimony was?

36:28

>> Only to state that we're in agreement

36:29

with the cases presented by Mr. Knight.

36:32

>> Okay. And uh again, you prepared the uh

36:35

application and uh the attachments,

36:38

photos, floor plans, all that.

36:40

>> Yes, sir. You you at least attached it,

36:42

reviewed it, all that type of thing.

36:43

Correct.

36:44

>> Absolutely.

36:44

>> Okay. And uh you adopt that as your

36:46

testimony here tonight?

36:48

>> Yes, sir.

36:48

>> Okay. Any questions?

36:55

>> No, I have one.

37:03

That empty lot.

37:08

>> You're referring to the empty lot to the

37:09

left. if you're at at there. We used to

37:11

own that. Uh we we sold that to the

37:15

gentleman who lives adjacent to that

37:17

property, one further left. So, he now

37:20

takes care of that property that's now

37:22

his. Uh in years past, I have uh taken

37:27

care of the vacant lots that are to the

37:29

right of that property and across the

37:30

street from what is now the vacant

37:32

church to help them out kind of thing.

37:35

Uh, plus there was a lot of, you know,

37:38

illegal dumping and that kind of thing.

37:39

And and since there was no one there to

37:41

actually take care of it,

37:44

we're there. So, we have been doing

37:46

that. Uh, I can't say whether or not

37:48

we've actually begun that process again

37:50

this year, but I'm sure we will.

37:53

>> Okay. With that, do I have a motion to

37:56

approve application 2637,

37:58

which are uh requests for special

38:01

exceptions and dimensional variances

38:03

subject to the conditions stated by the

38:05

planning commission?

38:08

>> Motion.

38:08

>> Do I have a second?

38:10

>> Second.

38:10

>> All in favor?

38:11

>> I.

38:12

>> Okay. So, what decision will be sent out

38:15

to you, Mr. Schol with regard to that

38:17

one? I think that concludes right the

38:19

four, right? Yep. All right. Great.

38:25

If I may, I just wish to send out a

38:27

quick thanks to uh the planning

38:28

commission's office there for

38:31

demonstrating a level of professionalism

38:32

here that that made a difficult

38:34

situation into something that was quite

38:36

manageable, I think, for everybody and

38:37

and sort of a reasonable outcome.

38:41

>> Yeah.

38:41

>> Thank you, Mr. Strokes.

38:48

>> What's that?

38:51

>> No, those are only two.

38:52

Yeah.

38:58

>> Okay. So, now we have 26 application

39:03

2638.

39:06

Uh the address 1257 1259 Walnut Street.

39:10

Uh applicant South Central PA

39:12

Restoration LLC.

39:15

Uh on behalf of uh is it Arthur Arthur

39:18

Jefferson? Okay.

39:20

>> Okay.

39:23

All right, Mr. Knight, you'll obviously

39:24

consider yourself sworn in already for

39:26

this application,

39:28

>> correct?

39:28

>> Okay. And uh so let's identify for the

39:33

applicant. We have Arthur Jefferson. And

39:35

who else is with him?

39:37

>> Uh good evening. My name is Duran

39:40

Sawyers.

39:41

>> And could you spell that for me?

39:43

>> Yes, it is D A R an last name Sawyers. S

39:48

A W Y E R S.

39:51

>> Okay.

39:56

Okay. You swear them both in. Yeah.

40:04

>> Yes.

40:06

>> And so, Mr. Jefferson, you're uh with

40:09

the South Central PA Restorations.

40:11

>> Yes, we're both owners of South Central

40:13

PA Restoration.

40:14

>> Okay. Both owners. Sorry.

40:17

Okay.

40:25

>> Okay. Mr. Knight.

40:26

>> Yes.

40:27

>> Uh let you know forgot to read them in.

40:29

Yeah.

40:29

>> Okay.

40:30

>> All right. So, the exhibits are uh B1

40:33

applicants request for a continuence

40:36

um uh to tonight's hearing.

40:40

B2 is a proof of publication May 3 and

40:43

May 10, 2026. B3

40:46

is the letter uh sent from planning

40:48

director to the applicant notifying of

40:50

the hearing. B4 hearing notice posted on

40:53

the property. B5 notification letter

40:55

sent to neighbors. B6 application packet

40:58

with photos of property and plans for

40:59

the proposal. B7 Harrisburg

41:02

redevelopment authority resolution

41:04

authorizing applicant to develop the

41:05

property. B8 the planning bureau case

41:08

report. B9 city of Harrisburg planning

41:10

commission resolution. So we have B1

41:12

through B9. Now Mr. Go ahead.

41:15

>> Uh so uh the application for case number

41:18

2638

41:20

uh involves the um consolidation of the

41:24

subject parcels and the construction of

41:27

a three-story six-unit multif family

41:29

dwelling with a rooftop patio common

41:31

area. Uh the project requires zoning

41:34

hearing board approval of two special

41:36

exceptions. uh one for the proposed

41:38

multif family dwelling use and relief

41:40

from the off- streetet parking

41:42

requirements for the uh proposed

41:44

development per section 7-305.7

41:47

and 7-327.6

41:49

of the zoning code respectively and two

41:51

variances for relief from the density

41:53

and allowable building widths width

41:55

regulations in section 7-307.3

41:59

of the zoning code. The project will

42:01

include three one-bedroom units and

42:04

three two-bedroom units. Uh so the

42:06

project site uh is comprised of two

42:09

vacant lots. Um they've been vacant for

42:12

um decades I think uh somewhere around

42:15

30 years almost. Um and uh they've

42:18

remained that way uh all this time. Um

42:21

there's you know v at varying times it's

42:24

been used for illegal parking for some

42:26

dumping. Uh there's been um you know

42:29

unmaintained vegetation on site. Uh so

42:32

uh the planning bureau feels uh that the

42:35

uh subject proposal uh represents a good

42:38

infill development. Uh the building

42:40

itself uh will generally be in

42:42

conformance uh with most of the

42:44

development standards with respect to

42:46

the building height uh setback and

42:48

impervious surface coverage. Um and uh

42:52

as uh the uh application notes, um the

42:56

applicants are also proposing a somewhat

42:59

unique co-op uh housing um configuration

43:03

uh and structure. Uh and uh the

43:07

intention is to make the um units

43:10

available to people I believe making up

43:12

to 60% of the median family income. Uh

43:16

so um we're not quite sure off the top

43:19

of our head whether it's going to be

43:21

submitted through the um affordable

43:22

housing uh certification program or not.

43:25

And I think that's just due to whether

43:26

the co-op ownership um uh proposal that

43:30

they're doing. Uh but um certainly if

43:33

they are uh going to be submitting

43:35

through that and that'll be worked out

43:36

through the land development plan

43:38

process that they'll be uh following

43:41

subsequent uh to this review. Um it

43:43

would reduce the amount of uh deviation

43:46

from the zoning code. Um they'd only be

43:48

required to provide three uh vehicles

43:51

instead of um seven or three off-

43:54

streetet parking spaces instead of seven

43:55

off- streetet parking spaces and they

43:58

would be able to uh to build four units

44:00

on site instead of the two units uh that

44:02

they would be permitted for a market

44:04

rate uh development. Um, as noted in the

44:07

site plans, uh, the applicants will be,

44:10

you know, keeping the building, um,

44:12

separated from the adjacent structures.

44:14

Uh, it's enclosed on all three sides,

44:16

uh, besides, um, Walnut Street, uh, by

44:19

buildings and, uh, other improved

44:21

properties. Um, and, uh, they'll be

44:24

having setbacks to allow those owners to

44:26

be able to access those properties. Uh,

44:28

that also, uh, impacts basically, uh,

44:32

whether, uh, they can provide any

44:34

parking on site. Um, so they obviously

44:38

can't can't access the rear of the lot.

44:39

They'd have to go through the front, um,

44:41

which would mean a new curb cut onto the

44:44

property, uh, which would both, uh,

44:46

remove, uh, publicly accessible on

44:48

streets parking, uh, but given the

44:51

required, uh, spaces, uh, and, uh, drive

44:54

widths. Um, it's likely that they

44:56

couldn't do any development on the first

44:57

floor. So, they'd have to elevate um

44:59

everything up a uh a floor, which may

45:03

necessitate additional um uh zoning

45:06

relief for things like uh exceeding the

45:08

maximum building height. Uh it may also

45:10

make the project itself infeasible. Uh

45:14

because I believe going above three

45:15

floors requires an elevator which is

45:17

obviously a significant cost uh uh to a

45:21

project of this site uh of this type

45:23

especially one um seeking to provide the

45:26

deeply affordable units that the

45:27

applicants are planning to do. So uh for

45:30

those reasons uh we do feel uh that the

45:33

uh project um as proposed is justified.

45:36

Um it should also be noted that the uh

45:39

applicants I believe have gone through

45:41

the hard review process because the

45:42

property is in the Summit Terrace

45:44

Architectural Conservation Overlay

45:46

District area. Uh and they did get

45:48

approval um from that board. Um so

45:53

with that all being said, the planning

45:56

commission uh recommends the zoning

45:57

hearing board approve the request with

45:59

the following conditions. Uh, the

46:01

applicant must submit a lot

46:02

consolidation and land development plan

46:04

application and receive approval from

46:06

the planning commission and city

46:07

council. Uh, and the applicant must

46:09

receive approval from the Harrisburg

46:10

architectural review board. Uh, the

46:12

planning commission recommends uh, the

46:14

zoning hearing board approve the request

46:16

for the following reasons. The decadesl

46:18

long vacancy of the subject properties

46:20

demonstrates the challenges inherent in

46:22

identifying appropriate and feasible

46:24

redevelopment projects and thus supports

46:26

the requested relief for development of

46:27

a six-unit multif family dwelling. The

46:30

configuration of the property with

46:31

limited frontage along public rights

46:33

ofway and surrounded on three sides with

46:34

developed lots presents challenges

46:36

regarding access to the property and

46:38

supports the requested relief from the

46:39

off- streetet parking. Uh the project

46:42

will improve currently vacant and and

46:44

unmaintained lots with affordable units

46:46

that are pressing need in the city

46:47

generally and the neighborhood

46:49

specifically. The applicant has also

46:51

responded to a solicitation from the

46:53

city for redevelopment of the site as

46:54

affordable housing which necessitates

46:56

additional relief from the zoning

46:58

regulations.

47:00

The proposed building design

47:02

incorporates a number of novel features

47:04

for projects in the city including

47:06

including the incorporation of a rooftop

47:08

deck uh green roof and solar panel

47:11

array. The property will also be

47:13

operated as a cooperative housing model

47:15

that will retain affordability over

47:17

time.

47:19

And Mr. Knight, once again, uh you

47:21

prepared that plan your case report,

47:23

correct?

47:23

>> That is correct. Yeah.

47:24

>> And you adopt that as your testimony as

47:26

well tonight?

47:27

>> Yes, I do.

47:27

>> Okay. Now, for uh the applicant, whoever

47:31

wants to start testimony in support of

47:36

your application.

47:38

>> Um I myself don't have anything to

47:40

testify. I'm open to any questions you

47:43

guys may have, but I think Mr. Knight

47:45

said everything that need to be said.

47:47

>> Okay. All right,

47:50

>> Mr. Stories, you too.

47:52

>> Yes, sir. Um, it's been a long day, but

47:55

uh um what Mr. Knight said and um just

48:01

being in front of the uh carb review

48:04

board and the uh planning commission uh

48:08

we pretty much everything is stated in

48:10

there of uh what we plan to do, what we

48:13

would like to do for our community. Uh

48:15

we don't want to do it one time. we want

48:17

to continuously uh do this. And then

48:21

even when we were walking through the

48:23

neighborhood, just to see that uh that

48:26

property, that lot right there has been

48:28

vacant for over 30 years. uh it's uh

48:31

it's much needed for all of us who are

48:34

trying to develop, you know, to

48:36

continuously try to grow our city and

48:39

bring it back to I know when I was

48:41

raised it seemed like it was more family

48:43

oriented and less just vacant lots like

48:46

this.

48:49

>> All right, any questions from the board?

48:55

>> Sure. Good evening. Uh just a couple of

48:57

questions. number one. Uh so this here

49:01

in the write up there is uh basically a

49:04

statement saying that there you have a

49:07

comparison for by right development. Um

49:10

uh basically comparing that to the

49:11

proposed project. Can you talk about I

49:14

guess uh perspective on financial

49:17

hardship or inability to develop um

49:20

within the the guidelines?

49:24

>> I don't know if I understood your

49:26

question fully. So basically right uh I

49:31

guess in the sense there's a for

49:32

variance right there's kind of a burden

49:35

of proof that you're not able to develop

49:39

um within the current zoning guidelines

49:42

which is what requires or it brings

49:44

forth your request for a zoning

49:46

variance. So I'm just wondering if you

49:48

could provide some insight into your

49:50

inability to develop based off of the

49:52

current guidelines.

49:54

>> Right. Why you pick the number of units,

49:57

you know what I mean, six instead of

49:58

something less, you know?

50:01

>> Well, we we noticed that there's a need

50:03

for the six units in the area. Um that's

50:06

what made us pick six. Um as well as uh

50:10

the the the request for the the zoning.

50:13

I'm thinking that's what you're talking

50:14

about, right? Like why did we request

50:16

these exceptions and variances, right?

50:18

>> So, um as Mr. night stated earlier is

50:22

that um with the parking we can't we we

50:27

financially we can't afford to uh to

50:30

build an extra store. Not only when we

50:32

talked to the mayor she said it ain't

50:33

happening on top. So, she already said

50:35

that, but um again, to have to put an

50:39

elevator in there is is is is a couple

50:42

bucks uh uh to the hundreds of thousands

50:45

of which already we're going with

50:47

affordable housing and it's hard enough

50:48

to raise the money that we have already

50:50

raised. So, that was one reason for

50:53

that. And um the the parking with the uh

50:58

the street cuts, we didn't think that

51:01

that would even look right in the

51:03

community. We felt as though if we cut

51:05

because I don't know if you guys have

51:07

the pictures in front of you, but we

51:08

have a permeable area right there where

51:11

we want to we want to do the whole

51:13

street like that. Um, we want people to

51:16

walk around. We don't want you to have

51:17

to weave through cars just to get to the

51:20

from one side of the house to the other

51:22

side of the house. If that makes any

51:24

sense to you.

51:26

>> And and then also you said why six and

51:30

not four? Um

51:32

when when you when we go through old

51:35

parcels or whatnot, there's a lot of

51:38

mess that we are charged for cleaning up

51:43

from the city's situations prior to us

51:47

that it's so costly that four units it

51:51

wouldn't do us just for us to build

51:54

there. You know, uh I don't think six

51:57

would be enough, but that is probably

51:58

the most that we could have asked for

52:00

for those two locks, you know, we

52:02

couldn't go any higher or whatnot

52:05

>> based on the architectural review area

52:08

of that area some materials.

52:11

>> Go ahead, Mr. Yeah. And I was going to

52:13

say I think the applicants also noted

52:15

something relatively unique to these

52:16

properties is that they the PA1 call uh

52:20

they performed uh didn't identify any of

52:22

the subsurface uh utility lines which is

52:25

even for vacant lots in the city that

52:27

the city has taken down over the last

52:29

couple decades. Uh there's still usually

52:31

a sewer hookup or a water line or

52:33

something like that. And the PA1 call uh

52:35

didn't even identify those. So it may I

52:37

mean it may be longer than 30 years that

52:39

this has been vacant. Our records are

52:41

very unclear about that, but that's

52:42

going to require, you know, excavation,

52:44

running new uh underground utilities,

52:47

>> right? And I just wanted to write that

52:49

that it has been vacant for a minimum of

52:51

30 years at least.

52:53

>> Okay.

52:54

>> As far back as our records go, which are

52:55

pretty pretty consistent up until the

52:57

late 1990s.

53:01

>> All right. Questions?

53:02

>> Yes. uh can you also provide insight on

53:06

the uh what was mentioned regarding the

53:08

co-op?

53:10

>> So after um we have a compliance period

53:13

where we have to rent it out for 15

53:15

years and in our model we want to build

53:19

relationship with the community where we

53:22

can um practice generational wealth

53:24

meaning um if because each floor has two

53:29

apartments. So if on our idea of life,

53:31

if one person could own one apartment,

53:34

rent the other apartment out to whomever

53:37

that other person may be, that will

53:39

again create that a form of generational

53:42

wealth to where we're getting

53:44

supplemental income brought to each

53:46

family on each floor. If that makes any

53:48

sense to you.

53:51

>> But this doesn't occur until after that

53:53

15-year period.

53:54

>> Yeah. Our compliance period. Yes.

53:56

>> Okay.

53:58

All righty. this allow for now.

54:03

>> Good evening gentlemen.

54:05

>> Good evening.

54:09

>> My questions

54:13

around this funding source. So,

54:17

you're going to build this new

54:18

structures. What's your funding source

54:20

going to be?

54:22

>> We have um so far required a fair grant

54:26

with the PHFA. Um we also um have and

54:30

that was for 350,000 and we have a um we

54:34

were awarded the Federal Home Loan Bank

54:36

of Pittsburgh for 900,000. We have one

54:39

last um grant that we're seeking after

54:42

which is the home ARP funds for the

54:44

remaining balance of our bill.

54:48

I Mr. Hops you spoke a little bit

54:52

question a little about the co-op and

54:54

the co-op your your position on it is

54:56

that you're trying to build uh

54:59

generational wealth. So these apartments

55:04

again after 15 years they will be

55:06

available to buy or that a floor. Okay.

55:10

So you buy the floor, you get both the

55:13

who buy said he's got income coming in

55:15

to offset his cost.

55:17

>> Yes.

55:18

>> Okay. Um let's say you're laying us. How

55:22

about storm water? And the reason why I

55:25

say that is because you were downhill

55:28

from runoff a little bit from Yeah. How

55:32

you want to address it? We got a talk

55:34

region on that. Yes, we we we we had a

55:38

lot of conversation with Cal Region. Um

55:40

so we're we're we're developing that

55:42

storm water plan. We're probably about

55:44

90%

55:46

finished with the plan. Um we have to

55:49

open up the street and we're going to

55:51

run our storm water. You you would think

55:54

it would go down towards the capital,

55:55

but that's not how they're saying we

55:57

have to actually go back up towards 13th

55:59

Street.

56:00

>> Major collection point. Yes.

56:01

>> Yes.

56:02

>> Okay.

56:04

This is going to be a three uh three

56:07

story structure.

56:08

>> Yes.

56:09

>> Okay.

56:09

>> With a rooftop.

56:10

>> This is going to be more directed

56:12

towards you across the street. You're

56:15

got a head development going on at uh

56:17

what is it right there at 13th in

56:19

Walnut. I actually went out and look at

56:22

your lots and stuff. So remember they're

56:24

going to be that rehab

56:28

printing building there.

56:29

>> Correct.

56:29

>> It's right across it's almost right

56:30

across the street from their lots.

56:32

>> Yep. They were heard at the uh May 6th

56:34

meeting. Yep.

56:35

>> Okay. So, you're going to have

56:36

construction in that area, multiple uh

56:40

multiple activities. Okay. Um you ask

56:46

the city, how do you visualize the

56:48

impact on community?

56:54

>> Well, um I think the um you know, the

56:56

logistics of how to stage all that um is

56:59

probably a bit up in the air. there is a

57:02

you know there is a vacant lot that

57:04

occupies the majority of a block that's

57:06

kind of like between those two um that's

57:09

just storing parked cars at the moment

57:11

um but I imagine it's a pretty um

57:14

accessible to both project sites um and

57:17

you know from you know in addition to

57:19

the uh improvement to the streetscape um

57:23

developing vacant lots or adaptively

57:25

reusing a vacant building uh it seems

57:28

ideal to have such two such large

57:32

projects occurring at the same time

57:34

because we'll likely need to repave the

57:36

road, maybe like reset curbs, things of

57:38

that nature. And if we can do that once

57:41

while we've got two projects going on,

57:43

uh that may that reduces the overall um

57:46

impacts from the construction timeline

57:48

uh on the surrounding um uh residents

57:51

because it's likely, you know, we'll

57:53

have to do road shutdowns for periods of

57:54

time to, you know, make these utility

57:56

connections. So, if we're able to do

57:58

that kind of uh for both projects at the

58:00

same time or back to back, uh that

58:02

should reduce the downtime for um

58:05

residents to be able to use those

58:06

streets.

58:07

>> Yeah.

58:13

What's underground, but I have concerns

58:16

is that if you're going to build out one

58:18

side and they're coming on the other

58:20

side, would it make sense to basically

58:22

get them both done

58:24

>> that?

58:29

ask you a pricing structure but

58:33

this is going to be more co-op but

58:36

you're um

58:38

again use the term affordable housing

58:40

correct so which going to be your

58:43

pricing for these apartments

58:47

>> I think for the um if if I'm if I'm

58:50

correct okay I think for the onebedroom

58:55

it's around $900. And then for the two

58:59

bedrooms, I want to say it's around

59:01

like$1050,50.

59:05

>> Sounds like you're getting PHFA

59:07

financing and

59:10

Pittsburgh.

59:11

>> Yes.

59:17

to

59:19

the parking. Okay. Uh we don't hit them

59:24

a lot, but because they require seven

59:28

spots on Wall Street parking, how do you

59:32

plan to accommodate? Because I I looked

59:35

at both Walnut Street and 13th Street

59:38

and the parking here could be

59:40

problematic.

59:42

to say when everybody's in. Okay. So,

59:44

how how do you tend to address that?

59:46

>> Well, we're hoping for a waiver from you

59:49

guys.

59:51

>> That's who that's what we're for

59:54

>> because because because the the

59:58

community that we're looking to service

1:00:00

um they typically don't have vehicles

1:00:03

and that's why we're requesting that.

1:00:06

>> Well, there's public transportation

1:00:09

right there off of

1:00:13

Yeah. And I believe there is at least

1:00:15

one bus route that runs down 13th Street

1:00:17

as well. Yes.

1:00:28

Say your return on ask for return on

1:00:31

investment on this, but again seems like

1:00:33

you're trying to build your your

1:00:35

position is that you're trying to

1:00:36

rebuild community and you want to see

1:00:38

that 15 to 30 year investment into this

1:00:42

property

1:00:43

>> at a minimum.

1:00:44

>> I'm not putting words to your mouth.

1:00:45

>> You are very correct. Got a minimum.

1:00:59

>> All right, Mr. Hobs, do you have

1:01:01

anything else right now?

1:01:02

>> Just a kind of a general question. Um,

1:01:04

>> sure.

1:01:05

>> Back to what you mentioned with parking.

1:01:07

Um, because I know there's kind of I

1:01:09

think even in the last meeting just

1:01:10

general statement about a viewpoint of

1:01:14

how many cars a certain population will

1:01:17

own um which I don't know if we can

1:01:20

really directly calculate that right. Um

1:01:23

but what is your thought or estimate

1:01:25

then if for this sixunit building of

1:01:27

what would be the average um need I

1:01:30

guess in terms of of parking spaces or I

1:01:33

guess I should say how many vehicles do

1:01:35

you think would be owned by you know the

1:01:38

tenants that are um occupying these six

1:01:41

units at any given time.

1:01:43

Well, the the way that we went about uh

1:01:48

housing uh this six unit complex uh we

1:01:52

partner with uh uh um

1:01:57

New Tomorrow. So, a nonprofit company uh

1:02:01

nonprofit organization, I'm sorry. and

1:02:04

and what they do, they have a housing

1:02:06

list um that meets the conditions and

1:02:09

the standards of affordable housing who

1:02:13

uh in our community. We want to help you

1:02:16

know those people and uh they they've

1:02:19

written us they have statistics and they

1:02:21

they've written us a statement um to

1:02:23

include uh whenever we go out to anyone

1:02:26

to show that uh I think it's 90 I want

1:02:30

to say 98% of uh those who they house

1:02:35

they don't have a vehicle. Um, and so

1:02:39

that would be perfect for us because if

1:02:42

most the majority of them don't have a

1:02:44

vehicle and what we're trying to apply

1:02:46

for is is an exemption from that, um,

1:02:50

that would that would fit the the

1:02:52

community and where we're at. And it

1:02:55

would also enable them to be right there

1:02:58

on a bus line and in close proximity to

1:03:01

what they need. Uh, even though, you

1:03:04

know, they have transportation but not

1:03:06

their own. vehicle.

1:03:08

So, um that is how we tried to

1:03:10

supplement um not having park

1:03:14

>> and the plan is right to have this as

1:03:16

affordable housing, right? That that's

1:03:18

what you would apply to the city. Is

1:03:20

that how it an application goes to the

1:03:22

city to make sure that then they get a

1:03:24

certific that then they get the

1:03:26

certification

1:03:27

>> the affordable housing?

1:03:29

>> Um I think it it does come through the

1:03:30

city. Yeah.

1:03:32

>> Right. for the certification to do it.

1:03:33

But but that is the plan

1:03:35

>> and and it's based on though, right?

1:03:37

Kind of the pricing of the units, right?

1:03:40

That's what

1:03:40

>> that that's correct. It's ba it's based

1:03:42

on um who the uh what level of

1:03:45

affordability the units are. Um it's our

1:03:49

our threshold is 80. They're below that.

1:03:51

Um so uh and again they they they're

1:03:55

proposing the co-op which I think is a

1:03:57

little bit different than what we've had

1:03:59

in the past. It's usually, you know,

1:04:01

rental units or something like that. Uh

1:04:03

sometimes four for four for uh uh for

1:04:06

sale home uh row homes like on North

1:04:10

Fourth Street that was just completed

1:04:11

and Market Street that the board has

1:04:14

reviewed recently. Uh but this co-op is

1:04:16

a is a different uh configuration as far

1:04:19

as that's concerned. So, um I don't

1:04:21

think we've had to review that against

1:04:22

the specifics of the program language,

1:04:26

>> but al also based on really I guess the

1:04:29

income level of you know the tenants or

1:04:33

you know residents of that that that is

1:04:35

really why then

1:04:37

>> the required off streetet parking is

1:04:39

reduced.

1:04:41

>> Yeah. Which is goes along with the plan

1:04:43

that then they're not going to have as

1:04:44

many cars which I think is what Mr.

1:04:46

Hobbs was kind of looking at. Right.

1:04:48

>> Correct. And you know that's largely

1:04:50

been a position of the of the planning

1:04:52

bureau is that you know when you're u

1:04:55

when you need assistance to put a roof

1:04:56

over your head you know it's likely that

1:05:00

um statistically that you're more less

1:05:02

likely to have a vehicle because that

1:05:04

costs a significant amount of money as

1:05:06

well uh either to own, buy, run,

1:05:09

maintain. Um, so when we're talking

1:05:11

about populations where we're going as

1:05:14

deeply affordable as what the applicants

1:05:15

are doing, it's definitely less likely

1:05:18

that uh the average household there will

1:05:20

have a a car or maybe they'll share a

1:05:23

car with a friend of theirs or somebody

1:05:25

that lives nearby, you know, something

1:05:26

like that. Um, but the but you know, the

1:05:29

cost of a car is significant and it's

1:05:31

only going up. Um, you know, with

1:05:33

respect Yeah. uh gas uh with respect to

1:05:36

uh even um the used car market uh is

1:05:39

increasing. So uh the cost of vehicles

1:05:42

going up uh and it definitely makes it

1:05:45

less affordable for everybody especially

1:05:47

uh people who need um help with uh

1:05:49

subsidized housing.

1:05:51

>> And the other question I have those

1:05:53

focused on that the onedimensional

1:05:55

variance related to the building width.

1:05:57

>> Yeah. So what is the

1:06:02

building width of buildings in that area

1:06:05

and then what's the 20% because I've

1:06:07

kind of seen like 16 to 18 feet or is it

1:06:10

32 to 36 that kind of thing just so I

1:06:13

know in writing

1:06:14

>> sure decision we need to write

1:06:16

>> you know that's always a tricky little

1:06:18

section of the zoning code and both

1:06:20

because it's uh because really a block

1:06:22

is not well defined uh whether it's just

1:06:24

the you know contiguous land surrounded

1:06:26

by rights of way or is

1:06:28

the properties on both sides of a single

1:06:30

street. And how far does that go? Um,

1:06:33

you know, the adjacent property, the

1:06:35

mixeduse property just to the uh east uh

1:06:37

which is like apartment over convenience

1:06:40

store is larger than the average in the

1:06:43

neighborhood. Um, as the applicants note

1:06:44

in their application, it's uh, you know,

1:06:47

anywhere from uh 14 to 18. Um, and there

1:06:51

are single family homes just to the west

1:06:53

along Walnut Street that are wider than

1:06:55

that. There's the building at the corner

1:06:57

of 13th and Walnut that you know. So,

1:06:59

it's it's tough to say whether there's a

1:07:01

prevailing, but the block AC the

1:07:03

directly across the block from this

1:07:04

project say you do have a pretty

1:07:06

consistent uh row home um uh

1:07:11

design or a row of homes that are all

1:07:13

about the same width. Um and so you know

1:07:17

in the I think in the interest of uh

1:07:20

completeness of this so that there's not

1:07:22

you know a missing aspect of the project

1:07:25

we wanted to look at that and say well

1:07:26

you could argue that there's a

1:07:27

prevailing width because of what's

1:07:29

across the block. So um but I think when

1:07:32

you look at the certainly the blocks

1:07:34

surrounding uh the subject uh properties

1:07:37

uh I would say there isn't really a

1:07:39

prevailing width within the general

1:07:40

neighborhood.

1:07:41

>> Okay. So, but in writ

1:07:47

then looked at it and make sure first of

1:07:49

all the building is going to be 38 ft

1:07:52

width there the the applicant that

1:07:55

proposed building correct

1:07:57

>> 38.

1:07:58

>> Okay. And the prevailing width may be 32

1:08:04

to 36 feet. Is that maybe a fair way to

1:08:08

consider all the properties

1:08:12

>> in order to be able to write this and

1:08:16

and have it decided this dimensional

1:08:19

variance request?

1:08:20

>> Yeah. So, you know, I Yeah, I mean, I

1:08:22

would say it's almost like there's two

1:08:23

row homes side by side. They have the c

1:08:26

two central stairwells that are required

1:08:27

for access to the upper floors. So, it's

1:08:29

not as though it's one building frontage

1:08:32

for um you know, a large apartment

1:08:34

building. It's being treated as, you

1:08:36

know, two conjoined row homes that have

1:08:39

a central access corridor.

1:08:42

>> Right. Okay. All right. Any other

1:08:46

questions?

1:08:47

>> Question. Since this is part of summit

1:08:54

association.

1:08:59

Yes, I have tried reaching out to them

1:09:01

to let them know what's going on

1:09:04

and um I haven't got any responses.

1:09:09

>> Um uh Mrs. uh what's her name? Barbie D.

1:09:16

>> Uh um

1:09:19

>> I haven't spoke to her for a while. I

1:09:21

I've tried left her a message. I talked

1:09:24

with her for a while prior to this, but

1:09:26

um I haven't uh she hasn't replied or

1:09:29

anything like that.

1:09:34

Any type of handouts is something you

1:09:36

would basically hand to people or some

1:09:38

type of notification

1:09:43

want to do this or something and your

1:09:45

input.

1:09:46

>> Yeah, we sent the letters out our

1:09:47

certified letters out.

1:09:52

>> Thank you.

1:09:54

Okay.

1:09:56

Want to take a break or anything?

1:09:58

deliberate

1:10:00

questions.

1:10:04

Either way,

1:15:09

Is there anybody here from the public

1:15:11

that wants to comment on this uh

1:15:13

application?

1:15:16

Seeing none. Okay. Do we have a motion

1:15:20

to approve application 2638

1:15:25

um in the request for special exceptions

1:15:28

and a dimensional variance subject to

1:15:30

the conditions stated by the uh planning

1:15:33

commission?

1:15:35

>> So move.

1:15:36

>> Okay. Do we have a second?

1:15:38

>> Second.

1:15:38

>> Okay. All in favor?

1:15:40

>> I

1:15:41

>> Okay, it's approved. And uh with that,

1:15:43

I'll send out the written decision to uh

1:15:46

the applicants within 45 days. Okay.

1:15:49

>> All right.

1:15:50

>> Congratulations, guys.

1:15:53

>> All right.

1:15:55

Let's see. We got

1:16:04

we got

1:16:08

right 26.

1:16:10

Okay. Okay. So, we have applica

1:16:12

application 2639,

1:16:14

which is 1531 and 1533 North 6 Street.

1:16:21

Um, okay.

1:16:27

And with that also, um, Mr. Knight,

1:16:31

you'll consider yourself sworn in for

1:16:33

this application as well. Correct.

1:16:34

>> Correct.

1:16:35

>> Okay.

1:16:37

Um,

1:16:38

and who is here for the applicant? I see

1:16:41

they're represented as well, but who's

1:16:45

>> Kevin Kufa, Penn State Health, last name

1:16:48

is KU FFA.

1:16:52

>> Okay.

1:16:56

Mark Karowski, Kur WKI

1:17:00

with K&W, Civil Engineers for the

1:17:02

project.

1:17:07

Esh Mccomi with MCNE Wallace and Nurk uh

1:17:10

land use attorney and then we also have

1:17:13

uh in the audience with us David Deloo

1:17:16

with Penn State Health uh general

1:17:17

counsel.

1:17:18

>> Okay.

1:17:23

Okay. Um why don't we uh though swear in

1:17:27

the uh witnesses for the applicant the

1:17:29

two they can just raise their right hand

1:17:30

and then have you both sworn in.

1:17:34

for the test.

1:17:38

>> I do.

1:17:38

>> Okay. Both answered in the affirmative.

1:17:41

All right. So, I'll read in the exhibits

1:17:43

and turn it over to Mr. Knight.

1:17:45

Uh, we have B1, proof of publication.

1:17:48

May 3, May 10, 2026. B2, letter sent

1:17:52

from the planning director to applicant

1:17:53

notifying of the hearing. B3, hearing

1:17:55

notice posted on the property. B4,

1:17:58

notification letter sent to neighbors

1:18:00

and certificate of mailing. B5,

1:18:02

application packet with attached

1:18:04

narrative photos of the property. B6,

1:18:07

uh, commercial lease establishing

1:18:09

applicant standing to pursue the zoning

1:18:10

relief. B7, planning bureau case report

1:18:14

and B8, city of Harrisburg planning

1:18:16

commission resolution. So, we have B1

1:18:19

through B8. With that, I'll turn it over

1:18:22

to Mr. Knight.

1:18:23

>> Uh, yes. So uh the issues inherent in um

1:18:27

the application for case number 2639

1:18:31

uh are a um accessessor or sorry are a

1:18:34

special exception and that is for uh

1:18:37

allowing a fence taller than the 6ft uh

1:18:40

height permitted by right in the INS

1:18:42

district. Uh the applicants are

1:18:43

proposing a 10-ft high fence to surround

1:18:45

the play area and then the variances are

1:18:48

for the proposed use. So uh the uh play

1:18:51

area represents an accessory use. is

1:18:53

accessory to the medical offices that

1:18:55

are located at 1524 Wallace Street just

1:18:57

across the street. Um and uh they will

1:19:01

be the principal use of the subject

1:19:02

property. So that's what the variance is

1:19:04

for allowing an accessory use as a

1:19:06

principal use and then also for

1:19:08

encroachment into uh the side and rear

1:19:11

yard setbacks. Um the applicants are

1:19:13

proposing the construction of a

1:19:15

basketball court at the rear of the

1:19:17

property. Um and uh the

1:19:21

full width of the property is I believe

1:19:24

31 ft of the two properties. Um and I

1:19:28

believe the depth is uh 70 ft. Um so the

1:19:33

sideyard setbacks for properties in the

1:19:35

INS district are 20 ft. Uh and the rear

1:19:37

yard setback is 20 ft as well. So you

1:19:39

actually couldn't build anything on the

1:19:41

site uh at least within the sideyard

1:19:43

setbacks because uh they're combined 9

1:19:46

ft more than what the full width of the

1:19:49

site is. Um and similarly the um rear

1:19:52

yard setback is 20 ft. So uh basically

1:19:57

it's would severely constrain any uh use

1:19:59

of the uh property uh for any reason. Um

1:20:02

and you know the properties themselves I

1:20:05

think are a bit unique for the INS

1:20:07

district which obviously imagines uh

1:20:10

larger uh types of institutional uses

1:20:12

like hospitals and schools and things of

1:20:15

that nature which you know you're not

1:20:17

going to be building on a kind of narrow

1:20:19

um lot that of the type that

1:20:21

accommodates like row homes throughout

1:20:23

the city. Um and uh for that reason um

1:20:27

development that uh is not in

1:20:30

conformance with the zoning code and

1:20:31

does require the requested zoning relief

1:20:33

uh is sensible for the use. Uh,

1:20:35

additionally

1:20:37

uh the um the playground use uh

1:20:41

represents a uh reasonable proposal for

1:20:44

the site given the proximity of the

1:20:46

principal use to which it's uh attached

1:20:48

and again uh the overall configuration

1:20:50

of the site uh that uh pretty much

1:20:53

precludes any other type of develop of

1:20:55

by right development uh on it. And then

1:20:58

with respect to the um special exception

1:21:00

for the fence height, uh as uh the

1:21:03

applicants noted in their testimony at

1:21:04

the planning commission meeting, uh you

1:21:06

know, they're one of the biggest

1:21:07

concerns is for safety. Uh this is

1:21:09

largely going to be um an outdoor

1:21:11

therapeutic space for uh patients of the

1:21:15

um adjacent medical office. Um and

1:21:17

because it's going to involve, you know,

1:21:18

children, they want to make sure uh to

1:21:21

ensure the security uh of the uh play

1:21:24

area. Uh but also because they'll have

1:21:26

basketballs and I'm sure other

1:21:28

equipment, they want to make sure those

1:21:29

aren't like going out uh of the play

1:21:31

area. So in addition to the uh 10-ft

1:21:34

high uh fence, they'll have netting over

1:21:35

the top too to ensure the area is

1:21:38

enclosed. So it's for both security and

1:21:40

then uh also uh the safety of passers by

1:21:43

make sure something doesn't go into the

1:21:44

street or damage a car in the adjacent

1:21:46

parking lot or something like that. Um

1:21:49

so overall uh the planning bureau finds

1:21:53

the request uh reasonable uh and uh you

1:21:56

know appropriate uh for reuse of these

1:21:58

subject properties. Uh as such uh we are

1:22:03

recommending approval without any

1:22:05

additional conditions. Uh and the

1:22:07

planning commission also recommends that

1:22:09

the zoning hearing board approved the

1:22:11

request for the following reasons. The

1:22:13

existing configuration of the

1:22:15

development site, particularly the

1:22:16

narrow width and shallow depth, would

1:22:18

require relief for any type of

1:22:19

development on site and the proposed

1:22:21

development represents a sens a sensible

1:22:23

use of the lot given the low inensity

1:22:25

use and proximity to the principal use

1:22:27

which it will support. Uh the lots have

1:22:30

been vacant for approximately 30 years

1:22:31

and given the location between an

1:22:33

accessory parking lot and long-standing

1:22:35

restaurant establishment. The proposed

1:22:37

development represents the most feasible

1:22:39

most feasible and reasonable proposal to

1:22:41

activate the lots and approve their

1:22:43

contribution to the streetscape. And

1:22:46

finally, the project will complement a

1:22:47

medical outpatient clinic that provides

1:22:50

services to adults and adolescence

1:22:51

receiving treatment for emotional,

1:22:53

psychological, and cognitive issues,

1:22:55

which will provide an interactive

1:22:56

outdoor setting that facilitates their

1:22:58

physical and mental health.

1:23:00

>> Okay. And Mr. Knight, uh once again, you

1:23:02

prepared the uh plane bureau case

1:23:04

report, correct?

1:23:05

>> Correct.

1:23:06

>> And you That is your testimony as well

1:23:08

tonight. Correct.

1:23:08

>> Correct.

1:23:09

>> All right, Mr. McCome. Go ahead.

1:23:12

>> Hey, good evening. Thank you for having

1:23:13

us. We'll take a a brief detour away

1:23:16

from housing and talk uh playgrounds for

1:23:18

a little bit here. Um, as Jeff noted,

1:23:22

uh, the applicant operates a outpatient

1:23:24

clinic uh, on this land around North

1:23:27

Sixth Street in Wallace. And to support

1:23:29

that clinic, uh, we wish to establish an

1:23:31

outdoor therapeutic playground.

1:23:33

Unfortunately, there's there's no space

1:23:35

at the North Sixth Street facility. Uh

1:23:37

we had actually prepared an application

1:23:39

for that the facility itself months ago.

1:23:42

Uh but we're able to work through some

1:23:44

zoning things with with the planning

1:23:46

department and didn't need to come

1:23:47

before you uh for that. Uh so I know the

1:23:50

planning department's very very familiar

1:23:52

with this this property. Um as Jeff

1:23:55

pointed out, the the lots are extremely

1:23:58

narrow. Uh, I think it's it's funny

1:24:01

sometimes when I talk to clients of mine

1:24:03

about, you know, what are we talking

1:24:05

about with a variance and a hardship and

1:24:07

what does that what does that mean? The

1:24:10

one of the examples that I'll often give

1:24:11

is when you want to build a home on a

1:24:13

lot, but the lot's only 30 feet wide.

1:24:16

What what do you do if the if the

1:24:18

requirement is for that is larger? And

1:24:20

and that's exactly what we have here. We

1:24:22

have two 15t wide lots. Uh, even if you

1:24:25

combine them, it's 30 feet. with a 20

1:24:27

foot setback, you can't fit anything in

1:24:30

there. So, to Jeff's point, we think

1:24:32

this is a great uh potential reuse for

1:24:34

the property. Uh Kevin is here to answer

1:24:37

any operational questions you might

1:24:38

have, but I think what I'll probably do

1:24:40

is skip ahead to Mark and let Mark walk

1:24:42

you through the plan and then if you

1:24:44

have any follow-up questions, we'll be

1:24:45

happy to to answer them. Mark, you want

1:24:47

to take a seat up here?

1:24:50

Put

1:24:50

>> the board up. Uh I'll hand these out

1:24:52

because I think they've got

1:24:55

Sure.

1:25:01

It's Mark Karowski. Business address is

1:25:04

2201 North Front Street in Harrisburg.

1:25:09

>> Thank you. And how long have you been

1:25:10

with K&W?

1:25:12

>> Uh it's been 21 years.

1:25:15

>> What's your role there?

1:25:16

>> I'm the president and CEO of the

1:25:18

company.

1:25:19

>> And have you ever testified before

1:25:21

presenting hearing before?

1:25:22

>> I have. And have you ever been denied uh

1:25:25

as an expert?

1:25:26

>> Uh no, I have not.

1:25:28

>> And did your firm prepare uh the

1:25:30

exhibits that go with this application?

1:25:32

>> We did.

1:25:33

>> Great. I'd like to offer Mr. Kowski as a

1:25:36

expert in site design and zoning.

1:25:38

>> Yep. Recognized. Go ahead.

1:25:40

>> Thank you. Uh if you could flip to the

1:25:42

first page. That's exhibit A. What is

1:25:44

it?

1:25:45

>> Uh it's an aerial view of the property.

1:25:47

>> And could you use it to orient the

1:25:48

board?

1:25:49

>> Sure. Uh as you're looking at exhibit A,

1:25:52

um you're going to see uh north is

1:25:54

basically kind of pointing up on the

1:25:57

drawing. Um you'll see the area in

1:25:59

yellow, that's the um office building

1:26:02

that um Ash had mentioned previously.

1:26:05

And the area in red are the two lots

1:26:07

that we're looking at for the

1:26:08

playground.

1:26:09

>> And those are along Sixth Street.

1:26:11

>> That's correct.

1:26:12

>> And then the is the restaurant the

1:26:14

building that's directly playing north

1:26:16

of the the red rectangle?

1:26:18

>> Correct. Anastasia, I think it is.

1:26:21

>> Uh, is the property in the INS district?

1:26:23

>> It is.

1:26:24

>> If you could flip to exhibit B, please.

1:26:27

What are exhibit B?

1:26:29

>> A couple of street view images of the

1:26:31

property in question.

1:26:32

>> And how many images are there?

1:26:34

>> Believe there are one, two, three, four,

1:26:37

three of them.

1:26:38

>> And to your knowledge, do they generally

1:26:40

uh and accurately reflect the status of

1:26:43

the property?

1:26:43

>> They do.

1:26:46

And then lastly, we'll go to exhibit C.

1:26:48

What is that?

1:26:50

>> Exhibit C is the site plan for the

1:26:52

project.

1:26:55

>> And uh on it is north to the we'll call

1:26:59

it uh 10:00,

1:27:01

>> correct?

1:27:01

>> That would be to the left.

1:27:02

>> Left on the plan. Yes.

1:27:04

>> Uh and does it depict uh the two lots

1:27:07

being consolidated?

1:27:09

>> Yes. If you look at the uh basically in

1:27:11

the center of the plan, you'll see some

1:27:13

dash lines. Within those dashed lines,

1:27:16

uh you'll see darker lines. Those are

1:27:17

the two lots that are to be consolidated

1:27:19

for the project.

1:27:20

>> And uh directly above those are the

1:27:22

building that the office building we

1:27:24

were talking about earlier.

1:27:25

>> That's correct.

1:27:26

>> And the dash lines themselves, it says

1:27:29

uh C enlargement plan A. Is what is

1:27:32

that?

1:27:32

>> That's correct. If you look to the right

1:27:33

of the sheet, there's actually an

1:27:34

enlarged view um that shows a bit more

1:27:36

of what's actually looking to be

1:27:37

developed within those two consolidated

1:27:39

lots for the playground. Could you just

1:27:41

generally describe what's planned for

1:27:43

the playground?

1:27:44

>> Sure. Uh so a couple of things you'll

1:27:46

see there. Um the consolidated lot

1:27:48

itself is about 2326 square feet. Um

1:27:52

within that proposed playground area,

1:27:54

you've got about a third of it is

1:27:56

looking to be asphalt paving. That's

1:27:58

more on kind of the rear of the lot away

1:28:00

from Sixth Street. And then the other

1:28:02

two/ird would be uh a playground

1:28:05

surfacing type material. Um the hard

1:28:08

surface is going to be essentially like

1:28:09

a halfcourt basketball area. Um four

1:28:12

square kind of hard surface play. And

1:28:14

then the the looser playground type

1:28:16

material is more there's some play

1:28:18

equipment likely to be in those areas.

1:28:20

Uh as well as some covered tables for uh

1:28:22

for kids to be sitting.

1:28:24

>> This board might not be aware of what

1:28:25

four square is. Can you walk them

1:28:26

through the rules?

1:28:28

>> I'm a little rusty. Uh but I do watch it

1:28:31

periodically. Yes.

1:28:33

>> Fair enough. Uh is is the playground lot

1:28:36

consolidated about 2326

1:28:38

square feet?

1:28:39

>> It is.

1:28:40

>> And what are some of the setback issues

1:28:42

that we're dealing with?

1:28:44

>> So we looked at this and tried to find

1:28:46

how do we um site the playground

1:28:48

equipment as best we can and provide

1:28:50

some level of setback. Um if you you

1:28:52

look in the enlargement, you'll see a

1:28:54

couple of elements. I'll start with the

1:28:56

rear of the lot which again is towards

1:28:58

the u the clinic building um which is

1:29:01

the rear or again away from Sixth

1:29:03

Street. Uh we're shown a 3.5 ft setback

1:29:06

uh in that location which would be to a

1:29:08

basketball hoop and net. And then if you

1:29:11

look on the side yards I'll start on the

1:29:13

south side uh which would be to your

1:29:15

right on the enlargement drawing. That

1:29:18

is a 3.23 foot setback line. um that is

1:29:22

to I believe the covered one of the

1:29:23

covered tables we have in that location.

1:29:26

And then if you flip to the other side,

1:29:28

the north, which would be the side

1:29:29

closer to Anastasia's, we've got a 4.23

1:29:32

foot set back. That's to um what we're

1:29:35

calling a a shade sail or a canopy to

1:29:37

provide some shade on on the playground.

1:29:39

>> Great. And then um I think

1:29:44

uh lastly on the plan itself, is that

1:29:46

access to the top right of that inset?

1:29:49

>> That is correct. And so the idea is that

1:29:52

um patients would come out of the the

1:29:54

main doors uh from the office building,

1:29:57

cross over Cen Street uh which is a

1:30:00

one-way street and then enter the uh the

1:30:02

playground in that area.

1:30:03

>> That is correct.

1:30:06

>> And for the board's uh knowledge, Cen

1:30:08

Street's kind of an interesting street.

1:30:10

Uh it is technically a a public street.

1:30:13

It almost has always operated as a

1:30:15

private street. It's a small small

1:30:17

oneway alley.

1:30:20

Um Mark, have you reviewed the

1:30:22

application and the narrative included

1:30:24

with it?

1:30:24

>> Yes.

1:30:24

>> And to the extent applicable, do you

1:30:26

adopt the comments made therein as your

1:30:28

own?

1:30:28

>> I do.

1:30:29

>> Thanks.

1:30:30

>> Any questions for for Mark or for Kevin?

1:30:42

You know, I always have to ask

1:30:43

questions, but I don't this time. This

1:30:45

is very This is good. I very familiar

1:30:48

with

1:30:49

extremely familiar with it.

1:30:51

>> We're going to hold you to that, Mr.

1:30:52

Fibs.

1:30:55

>> We met now as a fight now.

1:30:59

>> Like an attorney.

1:31:01

>> Okay.

1:31:02

>> Thank you.

1:31:03

>> I I do have one question because you on

1:31:07

the other side of Paris Street, you have

1:31:09

the AR archives. Okay. And it goes all

1:31:13

the way back to Wallace below that.

1:31:18

I understand the need for the 10 foot

1:31:20

high fence and with some netting over

1:31:23

top of it and that's more for a safety

1:31:25

purpose for the people who are going to

1:31:27

be in that in that area. Correct.

1:31:29

>> Yeah. It's to keep keep balls from

1:31:31

coming out and

1:31:38

>> that's all I have. Thank you.

1:31:39

>> Thank you.

1:31:44

>> Yeah, just one question. So, um I'm

1:31:47

assuming that is this just going to be

1:31:49

accessible during the hours of operation

1:31:52

of the clinic.

1:31:54

>> That's correct. The uh the patients uh

1:31:57

the youth patients that are here come

1:31:59

for for the day

1:32:00

>> and so yeah, this is during those

1:32:02

regular oper hours of operation. It will

1:32:04

be closed and and locked up uh in off

1:32:07

hours.

1:32:10

>> Thank you.

1:32:11

>> Yep.

1:32:12

>> Question for you.

1:32:14

going to be a play area. Will you

1:32:16

provide lighting into that or because

1:32:19

it's only going to be active during

1:32:22

business hours per say?

1:32:24

>> I I believe there's

1:32:27

be

1:32:28

there'll be site lighting that'll be

1:32:30

there for the parking lot that can

1:32:32

that'll that'll also light that area if

1:32:35

we need to. It is daytime only use so

1:32:38

it's from like 8:30 in the morning until

1:32:41

like 1:30 in the afternoon. I was just

1:32:44

thinking about the netting over top of

1:32:45

the area. Okay. That light effective

1:32:49

say,

1:32:51

>> right?

1:32:52

>> Okay.

1:32:56

Mr. Kufo, what is your position at uh

1:32:58

Penn Health

1:33:00

Penn State? I meant

1:33:03

>> I'm the facilities project manager.

1:33:06

>> Okay.

1:33:12

Okay. Anything

1:33:14

else?

1:33:20

Anybody u anybody here from the public

1:33:24

or wants to comment on this application?

1:33:31

Okay. And

1:33:35

all right. So,

1:33:37

uh, do we have a motion to approve

1:33:40

application 2639, which are for special

1:33:44

exceptions and, uh, a special exception

1:33:47

and, uh, variance requests? Um, do we

1:33:51

have a motion for that?

1:33:52

>> So, move.

1:33:53

>> All right.

1:33:55

Uh, do we have a second?

1:33:56

>> Second.

1:33:57

>> Okay. All in favor?

1:33:59

>> I.

1:34:00

>> Okay. There we go. It's approved. And I

1:34:02

will get that decision out to you,

1:34:04

applicant.

1:34:04

>> Y, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

1:34:06

Thank you.

1:34:15

>> All right, so we got

1:34:21

20.

1:34:27

>> All right.

1:34:46

Yeah, we'll deal with that. All right.

1:34:49

>> So, we have application 2640

1:34:54

North 16 Street in Crab Apple Street.

1:34:58

Um, before I go through the exhibits,

1:35:02

uh, Mr. Knight uh you consider yourself

1:35:04

sworn in for this application as well

1:35:06

tonight. Okay. I will u uh read in the

1:35:12

exhibits then we can have the people for

1:35:14

applicant uh introduce themselves

1:35:18

uh and swear them in and then we'll turn

1:35:20

it back over to Mr. Knight to go through

1:35:23

um the property description and so on.

1:35:26

So, we have exhibits uh B1, proof of

1:35:30

publication, May 3 and May 10, 2026. B2,

1:35:33

letter sent from the planning director

1:35:35

to the applicant notifying of the

1:35:36

hearing. B3, hearing notice posted on a

1:35:39

property. B4, notification letter sent

1:35:41

to neighbors and certificate of mailing.

1:35:44

B5, application packet with attached

1:35:46

narrative photos of the property. B6

1:35:49

Harrisburg Redevelopment Authority um

1:35:52

resolution authorizing applicant to

1:35:54

develop the property.

1:35:57

There was uh several attached deeds and

1:35:59

other agreements establishing applicants

1:36:02

standing to pursue the requested zoning

1:36:04

relief. B7 the planning bureau case

1:36:06

report and B8 the city of Harrisburg

1:36:09

planning commission resolution. So we

1:36:10

have B1 through B8

1:36:13

and um

1:36:16

people for applicant introduce

1:36:18

themselves. We'll swear in the witnesses

1:36:20

and then we'll go back. We'll go to

1:36:22

mystery night.

1:36:24

>> Jared Miller, the Cooper Companies.

1:36:28

>> Tar Castile, TLC workbased training.

1:36:32

>> Okay. Uh Tar, what's the what was the

1:36:34

last name?

1:36:36

>> Castile.

1:36:37

>> Castile.

1:36:38

>> Yes.

1:36:38

>> Okay.

1:36:41

Is that uh T A R E K? Is that it?

1:36:45

>> T A R I K. I K. Got it. Castile. C A S T

1:36:50

I L L E.

1:36:52

>> S T E.

1:36:53

>> Darn. I'm doing bad on this spelling

1:36:54

test.

1:36:55

>> All right. What was it? C A S

1:36:57

>> S T E L.

1:37:01

>> Castile.

1:37:02

>> E L. Oh, Castile. Got it. Yeah.

1:37:07

>> I used to be good at spelling, but then

1:37:08

I became a lawyer, so you know. All

1:37:10

right. Next.

1:37:11

>> Matt Witters with Eustus Engineering.

1:37:17

Okay. And before you ask, Mike, there is

1:37:21

one R in Jared.

1:37:23

Got it.

1:37:27

Okay.

1:37:32

All right. And then we have Mr. McCumbi

1:37:35

here representing. Right.

1:37:37

>> That's correct.

1:37:38

>> All right. So, we'll turn it over to Mr.

1:37:40

Knight and then we'll move on to the

1:37:42

applicants.

1:37:42

>> All right. So uh case number 2640 uh is

1:37:47

a somewhat unique one uh although it's u

1:37:51

very similar to the first phase uh uh

1:37:55

that this project represents the second

1:37:57

phase of um

1:38:00

and uh the first phase of the project

1:38:02

being the TLC cornerstone which is uh

1:38:05

directly to the west of essentially

1:38:07

where this project footprint is uh and

1:38:10

represented uh the construction of 50 um

1:38:12

units uh across uh several blocks of row

1:38:16

homes and a multif family dwelling

1:38:19

building. Uh whereas uh this project is

1:38:23

a bit more of a scattered sites um

1:38:26

development and largely involves only uh

1:38:29

two units uh at a time uh or I should

1:38:33

say two duplexes connected uh on uh nine

1:38:36

different lots uh across the uh project

1:38:40

site. Uh there's um a total of 34

1:38:43

affordable housing units in 17 buildings

1:38:45

across those uh nine uh consolidated

1:38:48

lots. Um and the proposal involves uh

1:38:53

the establishment of multifamily

1:38:55

dwellings on the subject properties uh

1:38:57

and a request for relief from the off-

1:38:58

streetet parking requirements in section

1:39:00

7-327.6

1:39:02

of the zoning code. And those are the

1:39:03

special exception requests. Uh and

1:39:06

requires relief from various aspects of

1:39:08

the development standards outlined in

1:39:10

check in chapter 7-307 of the zoning

1:39:12

code. Um and those are specifically for

1:39:16

uh relief from section 7-307.3A

1:39:20

of the zoning code to construct a

1:39:21

building wider than 20% of the

1:39:23

prevailing width on the block. Uh that's

1:39:25

applicable to lot number five. Uh,

1:39:27

relief from section 7-307.3A

1:39:30

of the zoning code to permit full

1:39:31

encroachment into the 5- foot front yard

1:39:33

setback. Uh, also applicable to lot

1:39:35

number five. Uh, relief from the same

1:39:37

section of the zoning code to permit

1:39:39

full encroachment into the 4ft sideyard

1:39:41

setback. And that's applicable to lots

1:39:43

number 6, 7, and 9. uh relief from

1:39:46

section 7-327.9A4

1:39:49

of the zoning code to permit parking

1:39:51

encroachment into the required rear yard

1:39:53

setbacks along Apple Crab Apple Street

1:39:55

and that's applicable to lots number

1:39:57

four and nine and then um to the extent

1:40:01

necessary relief from section 7-307.13

1:40:04

of the zoning code to authorize the

1:40:06

removal of trees with trunk diameters of

1:40:08

12 in or more and that's applicable to

1:40:10

those properties uh which again front

1:40:12

along Crab Apple street which is lots

1:40:16

four, six and nine. Um

1:40:21

the uh the project is going to be

1:40:24

submitted through the

1:40:27

>> yeah

1:40:30

just turn

1:40:31

>> that one.

1:40:35

>> Okay. Test test this one.

1:40:41

Hello.

1:40:45

>> I was just trying to speak really

1:40:46

loudly.

1:40:48

>> Hello.

1:40:49

>> Okay, there we go. Yep. Thank you.

1:40:50

>> Thank you.

1:40:51

>> Thanks, Emily. Um, so uh the project

1:40:54

will be submitted uh through the city's

1:40:56

affordable housing uh certification

1:40:58

program uh which impacts uh two aspects

1:41:02

of this pro of this project. um both the

1:41:04

density uh which requires 750 square

1:41:08

feet of lot area per dwelling unit as

1:41:10

opposed to the 1500 square foot of lot

1:41:12

area per dwelling unit in the RM

1:41:14

district and also the provision of off-

1:41:16

streetet parking uh as the project would

1:41:19

require uh 0.5 spaces per dwelling unit.

1:41:23

So, uh, for a total of 34, uh,

1:41:25

affordable housing units, they would be

1:41:27

required to have 17 off- streetet

1:41:29

parking spaces. And they are providing

1:41:32

10, uh, off- streetet parking spaces

1:41:34

across, uh, three of the lots. Um, and

1:41:36

so therefore, they're requesting, uh,

1:41:38

total relief of seven, uh, off- streetet

1:41:41

parking spaces. Um

1:41:45

so with respect to the uh proposed

1:41:47

development uh the multif family

1:41:49

dwelling as we've heard from uh both um

1:41:53

other applicants uh at tonight's meeting

1:41:56

and other meetings. Um you know the when

1:41:59

you're going for affordable housing you

1:42:00

need to have a slightly denser uh

1:42:03

development than would be permitted by

1:42:04

Wright. Um and uh the um relief from

1:42:10

off- streetet parking. Again, we had

1:42:11

just kind of had a conversation about

1:42:13

that of um people who are going after

1:42:16

affordable units uh generally uh

1:42:18

statistically less likely to own

1:42:20

vehicles. Uh but the planning bureau

1:42:22

would note that with respect to the

1:42:24

project footprint, um all of the sites

1:42:27

uh that are proposed as part of this

1:42:29

project are uh vacant. Um and uh several

1:42:32

of them uh have a significant amount of

1:42:35

uh frontage along various rights of way

1:42:37

whether that's Walnut Street, 16th

1:42:38

Street or Regina Street. Um and uh given

1:42:42

that there's vacant lots uh fronting

1:42:44

these, there is really no um demand or

1:42:47

there were no vehicles uh really parked

1:42:49

along the frontages of these properties

1:42:51

on those streets. Uh so there is

1:42:53

sufficient uh on street parking in the

1:42:56

surrounding neighborhood uh to

1:42:58

accommodate um any demand from tenants

1:43:01

or their guests. Um and while the

1:43:05

project site sits in a bit of a uh kind

1:43:08

of in a bit of a maybe black hole with

1:43:10

respect to uh transit um being that

1:43:13

there's no uh routes that run directly

1:43:15

adjacent to the project sites. Uh there

1:43:17

are routes uh kind of enclosing uh the

1:43:20

project site on uh 13th Street, 17th

1:43:23

Street, State Street and uh Market

1:43:26

Street which kind of all enclose uh the

1:43:28

property to the west, east, north and

1:43:31

south respectively. Um so in addition to

1:43:33

the availability of on street parking,

1:43:35

there is uh near there are nearby uh

1:43:38

mass transit routes for uh residents of

1:43:41

the uh prospective uh dwelling units. Uh

1:43:45

with respect to some of the variance

1:43:47

requests um

1:43:50

the one for building uh lot number five

1:43:52

for the building width larger than 20

1:43:54

uh% of the prevailing width on the block

1:43:57

um there really is not a I would say

1:44:00

prevailing width uh because so many of

1:44:04

the uh blocks or sorry so many of the

1:44:07

lots that comprise a project site are

1:44:09

vacant. Um, a lot of the buildings that

1:44:11

are there are one-offs or uh attached

1:44:14

buildings. Uh, so they don't really

1:44:16

establish a um, prevailing width. Um,

1:44:18

but it should be noted that for block

1:44:20

lot number five, um, the building itself

1:44:24

will probably if looked at from Regina

1:44:27

Street will be similar to other uh,

1:44:29

buildings that line Regina Street, but

1:44:31

these buildings are actually going to be

1:44:32

facing uh, North 15th Street. Um so

1:44:35

while the building massing is very

1:44:37

similar to other buildings uh because of

1:44:39

the way they'll be because of the way

1:44:42

the um the entrances will be facing uh

1:44:45

it kind of establishes the side of the

1:44:48

building almost as the front which is

1:44:49

why uh they're requesting that relief uh

1:44:52

for wider than uh 20% of the prevailing

1:44:55

width. Um, as far as the encroachment

1:44:58

into uh the front yard setbacks, again

1:45:00

that applies to to lot five and it's

1:45:03

really I would say more the uh side

1:45:06

would be more the um sideyard setback.

1:45:09

Uh because again they they will those

1:45:11

units will be fronting North 15th Street

1:45:13

instead of fronting Regina Street. Um so

1:45:16

it will be built but it will be built up

1:45:17

to the property line which is um the

1:45:21

configuration of the uh single family

1:45:24

row homes just to the east. Uh so it is

1:45:26

matching uh what's out there in the

1:45:28

neighborhood right now. Um as far as

1:45:30

encroachment into the 4oot sideyard

1:45:32

setbacks for lots six, seven, and nine,

1:45:35

um those are going to be kind of

1:45:40

constrained by either vacant lots that

1:45:41

are not part of this project or existing

1:45:43

buildings. And so, uh, the applicant has

1:45:47

designed the new developments so that

1:45:50

they're further from the existing

1:45:51

buildings to allow those owners of those

1:45:53

properties to have access to their

1:45:55

properties, which kind of pushes them

1:45:56

into uh, the sideyard setbacks on the

1:45:59

opposite sides uh, of those uh,

1:46:02

development footprints. Uh with respect

1:46:04

to the parking encroachment into the

1:46:06

rear yard setbacks along Crab Apple

1:46:07

Street, um you know, the plane bureau

1:46:10

notes that is the most reasonable and

1:46:11

rational uh location to provide parking

1:46:15

uh for at least some of the units uh in

1:46:17

this project. Uh both because um you

1:46:20

wouldn't want to have front yard

1:46:21

setbacks or sorry, you wouldn't want to

1:46:23

have front yard parking which would be,

1:46:24

you know, out of character with the

1:46:26

neighborhood. Uh but also there are no

1:46:28

sidewalks along Crab Apple Street. So,

1:46:31

uh, by locating the the parking off of

1:46:35

that street, they'll be able to, uh,

1:46:37

avoid creating a new pedestrian

1:46:39

vehicular conflict point, um, there

1:46:42

because people aren't using the garage,

1:46:44

uh, the sidewalks already there. Uh and

1:46:46

then finally with regards to the removal

1:46:48

of uh trees, um you know, given the

1:46:51

constrained nature of the sites and the

1:46:53

fact that uh at least two of those along

1:46:55

Crab Apple Street will have parking in

1:46:57

the rear yard, um they're going to have

1:46:59

to remove the uh trees uh in order to

1:47:02

construct new units. Uh they would

1:47:04

probably have to do that anyway for site

1:47:05

prep, but they'll probably need to use

1:47:07

that for staging and uh parking

1:47:09

vehicles. Um so it's likely that all of

1:47:12

those trees will need to be removed. Um,

1:47:15

but we are trying to address that in the

1:47:17

conditions by uh recommending that uh

1:47:19

there be like a one for one replacement

1:47:21

uh for uh new trees and tree pits along

1:47:25

sidewalks uh for properties as part of

1:47:28

this project.

1:47:30

So with all of that being said uh and I

1:47:33

would note uh also that again uh this is

1:47:36

the second phase of the cornerstone

1:47:38

project uh just to the east there and

1:47:40

it's made a remarkable improvement uh on

1:47:42

the neighborhood. Um it uh replaced a

1:47:45

lot of overgrown lots uh some of which

1:47:47

had illegal parking of uh you know uh

1:47:50

junked vehicles uh with uh a lot of new

1:47:54

uh housing units uh with modern

1:47:56

construction affordable housing units uh

1:47:58

for residents of the neighborhood um and

1:48:01

has really reactivated those streets uh

1:48:04

North 15th Street Regina Street um and

1:48:08

really brought uh I would say a much

1:48:12

better sense of ownership of those

1:48:13

spaces. Uh, and you can tell that

1:48:15

they're better maintained along those

1:48:17

frontages than what they used to be. Uh,

1:48:20

so with all that being said, the

1:48:23

planning commission has recommended the

1:48:25

zoning hearing board approved the

1:48:26

request with the following conditions.

1:48:29

If granted approval for the requested

1:48:31

zoning relief, the applicant will

1:48:33

subsequently file a lot consolidation

1:48:35

and land development plan and receive

1:48:37

approval from the planning commission

1:48:38

and city council. Uh because the project

1:48:41

will be restricted to residents earning

1:48:42

60% of the median family income and is

1:48:44

therefore eligible for the certificate

1:48:46

of qualification pursuant to chapter

1:48:48

12101 of title 12. The applicant should

1:48:51

submit the project through the

1:48:52

affordable housing certification program

1:48:54

prior to recording the lot consolidation

1:48:56

and land development plan with the

1:48:58

Dolphin County Recorder of Deeds. Uh the

1:49:00

applicant should reconstruct all

1:49:01

sidewalks along North 16th Street,

1:49:03

Regina Street, and North 15th Street to

1:49:05

the full width between the curb and

1:49:07

property lines as the current

1:49:09

configuration along those streets and

1:49:10

will provide safer and improved

1:49:12

pedestrian infrastructure for new

1:49:14

residents of the proposed development

1:49:15

and existing residents of the

1:49:17

neighborhood as well as curb bumpouts at

1:49:19

corner lots along North 16th Street,

1:49:21

Regina Street, and North 15th Street,

1:49:23

similar to what was installed along the

1:49:25

15th Street frontage of the previous

1:49:27

phase of the project. Uh the applicant

1:49:29

should also consider measures to prevent

1:49:31

illegal parking such as street trees. Uh

1:49:34

the number four, the applicant should

1:49:36

install fencing enclosing undeveloped

1:49:39

areas around the proposed buildings to

1:49:40

prevent unauthorized access and

1:49:42

unpermitted activities such as illegal

1:49:44

parking and dumping to create more

1:49:46

functional space for project residents

1:49:48

and to enhance the aesthetic impact of

1:49:50

the project. The bureau also recommends

1:49:53

coordinating with the city arborist on

1:49:55

plannings to improve the appearance and

1:49:56

ecological function of the project

1:49:58

sites. The bureau recommends that for

1:50:00

every tree removed, the applicants plan

1:50:01

a new one in a tree pit located within

1:50:03

the public right ofway as space on each

1:50:05

development site will be limited.

1:50:08

The planning commission recommends the

1:50:10

zoning hearing board approve the request

1:50:11

for the following reasons. The proposed

1:50:13

project will develop lots that are

1:50:15

currently vacant, unckempt, and/or under

1:50:17

you and/or utilized for unpermitted uses

1:50:19

such as illegal parking or dumping and

1:50:21

create affordable housing units for the

1:50:23

city's residents in a variety of

1:50:24

configurations including multi-bedroom

1:50:27

and ADA units. The subject properties

1:50:29

comprising the project site lack

1:50:31

adequate pedestrian infrastructure and

1:50:33

which creates unpleasant and safe

1:50:35

conditions that have an adverse impact

1:50:37

on the surrounding community. And the

1:50:39

project will enhance the streetscape for

1:50:41

existing and future residents by

1:50:42

providing wide shaded sidewalks if the

1:50:45

planning bureau recommend planning

1:50:46

bureau's recommendations are adopted.

1:50:49

The zoning relief requested by the

1:50:50

applicants such as relief to allow rear

1:50:52

yard parking or to encroach into

1:50:54

setbacks which allows the construction

1:50:55

of units up to lot lines will better

1:50:57

reflect the existing nature of the built

1:50:59

environment and the surrounding blocks.

1:51:01

Thus, these requests are necessary to

1:51:03

develop a project that integrates into

1:51:04

the building and infrastructure fabric

1:51:06

of the community. And finally, as

1:51:09

evidenced by the appearance and success

1:51:11

of the first phase of the applicant's

1:51:12

development along North 15th Street, the

1:51:14

project will bring significant social,

1:51:16

economic, and aesthetic benefits to the

1:51:18

neighborhood, provide affordable housing

1:51:20

and modern construction, improve the

1:51:21

streetscape, and bring new residents who

1:51:23

will activate the street on nights and

1:51:25

weekends, and will support local

1:51:27

businesses.

1:51:29

>> Okay. And and uh Mr. Knight, you've also

1:51:33

prepared that planning bureau case

1:51:34

report. Correct.

1:51:36

>> That is correct.

1:51:37

>> Okay. Do you adopt that as well as your

1:51:39

testimony tonight?

1:51:40

>> Yes.

1:51:40

>> Okay.

1:51:42

>> All right. Mr. Mccumbi.

1:51:45

>> Yep. Thank you. Uh good evening again.

1:51:48

Um I think what what we'll probably do

1:51:50

is is still run through uh Jared's

1:51:52

testimony. I think this is the first

1:51:54

project W's had in the city and so I'd

1:51:57

like him to get to know you guys and you

1:51:58

guys to get to know him a little bit

1:52:00

because I'm sure they they'd be excited

1:52:02

to get back. Um, also want to thank Tar

1:52:05

for coming in. Uh, he's done a great job

1:52:07

with phase one. If you haven't had a

1:52:09

chance to swing by and take a look at

1:52:10

it, it's it's a huge improvement as as

1:52:12

Jeff said. So really excited to to have

1:52:15

this pair partnering together uh on on

1:52:17

this project. Uh, I'm going to hand out

1:52:20

the packets. In the meantime, uh Jared,

1:52:22

could you please state your name and

1:52:24

business address for the record?

1:52:25

>> Yeah.

1:52:27

>> Again, Jared Miller, Will Cooper.

1:52:29

Business address is 500 South Front

1:52:31

Street, 10th floor in Columbus, Ohio,

1:52:34

43215.

1:52:37

>> Say it again.

1:52:39

>> No.

1:52:40

>> No.

1:52:41

>> Wait. Yeah. I don't know. Did he?

1:52:43

>> Just do it again, please, just to make

1:52:45

sure.

1:52:50

>> I do. I do.

1:52:52

>> And Jared, who's who's your employer?

1:52:54

Who do you work for?

1:52:56

>> Uh, what do Cooper Companies?

1:52:58

>> We are an affordable housing developer

1:53:00

that's headquartered out of Columbus,

1:53:01

Ohio.

1:53:02

>> Okay.

1:53:05

>> Okay.

1:53:09

>> And I can go more into our background.

1:53:12

>> Sorry, could I ask what's your role with

1:53:13

the company or did he just ask you?

1:53:15

>> Um, he did not. Vice president of

1:53:16

development is my role.

1:53:17

>> And what do you do in that role?

1:53:19

Um, I look through sites um in

1:53:23

communities that are in need of

1:53:24

affordable housing and I primarily

1:53:26

secure the financing through um public

1:53:29

sources such as the Pennsylvania um

1:53:31

housing finance agency and then take

1:53:34

them um all the way up to construction.

1:53:37

>> Where does WO have other projects in

1:53:39

Pennsylvania or the Northeast?

1:53:41

>> A little bit of everywhere. Um we've

1:53:43

been in Pennsylvania for two decades

1:53:46

now. Um we have products kind of across

1:53:49

the state. Um we have two new ones in

1:53:52

Pittsport Pittsburgh, but beyond that we

1:53:54

are um yeah, beyond that we're we're

1:53:58

kind of scattered throughout the the

1:53:59

middle of the state. Um southern parts

1:54:01

of the state. Uh we have a few in in

1:54:04

Lancaster and then several in Cumberland

1:54:07

as well.

1:54:07

>> And then uh WO is partnering with TLC

1:54:10

and T on this project.

1:54:12

>> Correct.

1:54:13

>> Great. Um, who owns the properties?

1:54:17

>> Of the 26 properties, one is currently

1:54:20

owned by TLC. Um, two are privately

1:54:23

owned and then the remainder are owned

1:54:24

by the uh um um housing redevelopment

1:54:28

authority. Um, all of which are under

1:54:31

agreement though.

1:54:33

>> Great. And uh how far along is phase

1:54:36

one?

1:54:37

>> Phase one is fully leased now. um that

1:54:39

is 100% occupied um and doing well.

1:54:44

>> And generally speaking, is phase two

1:54:45

similar to phase one?

1:54:47

>> Very similar. Um same same financing uh

1:54:50

working with the Pennsylvania Housing

1:54:52

Finance Agency. It'll be um

1:54:56

very similar.

1:54:57

>> Great. Are the proposed units affordable

1:54:59

as defined by the city?

1:55:00

>> They are correct.

1:55:02

>> If you could open up exhibit A, the

1:55:04

first exhibit in that packet, please.

1:55:07

What is it?

1:55:08

>> Exhibit A is um overall site plan. Um

1:55:13

Mr. Knight did a good job of talking

1:55:15

about phase one. U that is what's

1:55:17

highlighted in green here. As you can

1:55:19

see the remainder of the lots here,

1:55:21

there will be nine um scattered kind of

1:55:24

around Regina Regina Street, which is

1:55:26

the the diagonal. Um there'll be nine

1:55:30

lots scattered around uh this general

1:55:32

area.

1:55:33

And when we're looking at this plan is

1:55:35

north to the top left.

1:55:37

>> North would be to the top left. Correct.

1:55:43

>> Is the property in the RM district?

1:55:46

>> Correct.

1:55:47

>> And are multif family residential units

1:55:49

permitted by special exception in the RM

1:55:51

district?

1:55:51

>> Yes.

1:55:52

>> I think I heard you say earlier, but

1:55:54

I'll ask again just in case. Will tax

1:55:55

credit financing be applied for this

1:55:57

affordable project?

1:55:58

>> It will.

1:56:04

Uh, in your experience, do your tenants

1:56:07

generally own less vehicles than market

1:56:09

rate tenants?

1:56:10

>> They do.

1:56:11

>> You explain that a little or you know

1:56:13

what what that evidence is?

1:56:15

>> Yeah. Um, some of the same evidence that

1:56:17

was was used on earlier products here.

1:56:19

Um, we've we've run this through our

1:56:21

management team. Um, they they've

1:56:23

approved the the parking counts here.

1:56:25

Um, typically affordable units do have

1:56:27

less means to uh to have cars and rely

1:56:30

on public transit um or other means of

1:56:33

of travel. Um, generally we we do see a

1:56:37

reduction in our in the communities that

1:56:39

uh we we own and manage compared to

1:56:42

market rate um properties for example.

1:56:45

And

1:56:45

>> since I know Mr. Fipps is going to ask

1:56:47

the question on the financing side of

1:56:49

it. Uh are the the sizes of the

1:56:52

buildings and the number of units tied

1:56:54

to making the project feasible? In other

1:56:56

words, so do you have to hit a certain

1:56:58

number of units to be able to make this

1:56:59

project pencil out at all?

1:57:01

>> That would be correct. The uh for this

1:57:03

type of financing, the normal project

1:57:05

size is around that 45 to 50 unit range.

1:57:08

Um we try to get as close to that number

1:57:10

as possible. Um that's um it's defined

1:57:14

relatively by the state um based on the

1:57:16

financing available. Uh here we're we're

1:57:19

a little under, but for infill scattered

1:57:21

site lots, which I I think is um

1:57:24

probably something that's very much seen

1:57:25

in the community, um the 34 was probably

1:57:29

as close as to not get to to that

1:57:32

approximate unit count.

1:57:34

>> Uh will WA own and operate these units

1:57:37

on a going forward basis? They'll be

1:57:40

jointly owned by um ourselves and and

1:57:43

TLC workbased training.

1:57:45

>> Great.

1:57:46

Are you familiar with the narrative

1:57:47

submitted with the application?

1:57:49

>> Yes.

1:57:50

>> And to the extent applicable, do you

1:57:51

adopt the comments made therein as your

1:57:53

own?

1:57:54

>> Yes.

1:57:54

>> Great.

1:57:55

>> Um we can go for questions with Jared or

1:57:59

it might be better to go ahead and let

1:58:01

Matt kind of walk you through the plan

1:58:02

and then we can hit all the questions at

1:58:04

once at the end. Is that easy?

1:58:06

>> Yeah.

1:58:06

>> Because he might answer some. Great.

1:58:08

Come on up, Matt.

1:58:14

>> State your name and business address for

1:58:16

the record.

1:58:16

>> It's Matt Witters with Eustace

1:58:18

Engineering. Uh, it's 161 South 32nd

1:58:21

Street, Camp Hill, PA.

1:58:22

>> And what's your role with Eustace?

1:58:24

>> I'm a senior project manager with

1:58:26

Eustace. I've been there 19 years.

1:58:29

>> And have you worked on affordable

1:58:30

housing projects before?

1:58:32

>> I have. Yes. And when doing so, do you

1:58:34

review the city's ordinances and prepare

1:58:36

your plans to comply with those

1:58:38

ordinances except to the extent relief

1:58:40

is necessary as here?

1:58:41

>> That is correct. Yes.

1:58:42

>> And have you ever been denied as an

1:58:44

expert by a zoning board?

1:58:45

>> I haven't. No.

1:58:47

>> Like to offer Matt as an expert in site

1:58:49

design and zoning analysis. Thank you.

1:58:51

>> Recognized.

1:58:53

>> Matt, if you could go to the next uh

1:58:55

page. That's exhibit A2.

1:58:58

What is it?

1:58:59

>> It's a copy of the zoning plan that we

1:59:01

repaired. This was prepared by Eustus.

1:59:04

>> Correct.

1:59:05

>> Please use it to orient the board.

1:59:07

>> Uh yes. Uh North is to the left on the

1:59:09

plan. Uh it's where Walnut Street

1:59:11

resides. 16th Street is the top of the

1:59:13

plan. Uh 15th Street runs left to right

1:59:17

through the middle of the plan. Uh

1:59:19

Regina Street runs north and south kind

1:59:22

of diagonal. And then Market Street

1:59:23

would be not on the plan, but it's to

1:59:25

the right of the plan.

1:59:28

And could you walk the board through uh

1:59:30

through the site plan and what we're

1:59:32

proposing?

1:59:33

>> Sure. Uh I'm going to start in the upper

1:59:34

lefthand corner with lot one and then

1:59:36

we're going to finish in the lower uh

1:59:37

right hand corner with lot nine. So lot

1:59:39

one uh consisted of two parcels. We're

1:59:42

going to have those consolidated into

1:59:43

one and construct three buildings there.

1:59:46

Each will be a mix of two and

1:59:47

threebedroom units. They're going to be

1:59:48

three stories tall. Behind those lot or

1:59:51

behind those buildings, we'll construct

1:59:53

uh four parking spaces. Two will be ADA.

1:59:56

Uh, and there's a a blue uh hatch in

1:59:59

that area that's uh generally going to

2:00:01

be an underground storm water basin uh

2:00:03

or storm water management system. Um, we

2:00:06

have those throughout the the site. Lot

2:00:08

two is just to the right uh faces 16th

2:00:11

Street. That'll be one unit. Um, I'm

2:00:13

sorry, two units, one building. It's a

2:00:15

two and a three-bedroom uh unit. Uh, no

2:00:18

parking. The lot three faces uh Regina

2:00:22

Street at the corner of 16th and Regina.

2:00:24

That's a mix of a two and a

2:00:25

three-bedroom unit. Uh, no parking. Lot

2:00:28

four uh faces Regina Street, Regina

2:00:31

Street, backs on Crab Apple, and that

2:00:34

has, uh, two buildings, both of which

2:00:36

are a mix of three-bedroom units.

2:00:39

Uh, lot five faces North 15th Street.

2:00:43

It's at the intersection of Regina and

2:00:45

15th. And that'll be two buildings with

2:00:48

uh, a threebedroom and or three

2:00:50

threebedrooms and one two-bedroom. Uh,

2:00:52

no parking.

2:00:54

I'd would like to point out on 15th

2:00:56

Street that we do have a curb bump out

2:00:58

uh or bump in there. Um similar to what

2:01:01

was proposed on lot or I'm sorry on

2:01:03

phase one uh to the west going uh east

2:01:07

on 15th Street. Uh we've got lot six

2:01:10

which is two buildings, two and

2:01:12

threebedroom mix. Uh lot seven is a one

2:01:17

two unit two buildings. Um all four

2:01:20

units will be one bedroom. Lot eight is

2:01:23

across the street on North 15th Street.

2:01:25

Uh that's two buildings. Uh one building

2:01:27

will be uh two one-bedroom units. The

2:01:29

other building will be two three-bedroom

2:01:30

units. And the last lot is lot nine down

2:01:33

at the bottom of the plan faces Regina

2:01:35

Street. That's uh two buildings uh two

2:01:38

bedrooms, three-bedroom mix as well with

2:01:40

off- streetet parking. Uh three uh

2:01:43

there's three spaces on the back of lot

2:01:46

nine. If I go back to lot four because I

2:01:48

skipped over it. We have three off-

2:01:50

streetet parking spaces proposed uh

2:01:52

accessible from Crab Apple.

2:01:55

>> Great. Thank you. You touched on um the

2:01:58

sidewalk bump out. Can you talk a little

2:02:00

bit more about sidewalks and widening?

2:02:03

>> Sure. Um it was uh mentioned in the

2:02:05

conditions from the planning bureau uh

2:02:07

in their recommendation that we provide

2:02:10

uh bumpouts, bumpins, whatever we're

2:02:12

going to call them uh along 15th Street,

2:02:14

16th Street uh and a corner lot there on

2:02:18

15th and uh Ethel to match what we had

2:02:20

done on phase one. Uh we will provide

2:02:22

that. We're not shown it on this plan

2:02:24

and we didn't incorporate it on this

2:02:25

plan. Um with sidewalks, we're going to

2:02:28

propose along 16th Street. Uh and then

2:02:31

the rest of the sidewalks, I don't

2:02:33

really have an issue with proposing uh

2:02:35

full width sidewalks uh along Regina or

2:02:38

15th, but we had set the widths and um

2:02:42

locations based on what had been

2:02:43

constructed as part of phase one. We

2:02:45

were trying to match the aesthetics of

2:02:46

phase one. Um so on that condition uh

2:02:50

I'd like to work with planning bureau a

2:02:51

little bit more to uh to work through

2:02:54

those those full full width sidewalks

2:02:58

>> and then talk a little bit about fencing

2:03:00

please.

2:03:01

>> Uh fencing uh one of the conditions uh

2:03:03

recommended by the planning bureau was

2:03:05

to uh incorporate fencing around some of

2:03:08

the yard areas. Um certainly uh

2:03:11

understand why uh but there wasn't any

2:03:13

fencing um incorporated on phase one.

2:03:16

We'd like to try to keep the aesthetics

2:03:18

on phase one. Uh the other thing with

2:03:20

fencing is it is an added cost and this

2:03:22

is a affordable housing project, but it

2:03:25

would also offer another feature for uh

2:03:27

vandalism as well and maintenance like

2:03:29

long term long-term maintenance um on

2:03:32

the fencing.

2:03:34

And I'm sure you have it memorized, but

2:03:35

I'll I'll ask it in a yes no question

2:03:37

just for for ease. Am I correct that

2:03:40

there is one tree on lot four that is

2:03:42

hazardous due to age? Five trees on lot

2:03:45

six that generally undesirable, invasive

2:03:48

or hazardous due to their age. One tree

2:03:51

on lot nine that is invasive or

2:03:53

undesirable and those are the the trees

2:03:55

generally that are being uh cut down for

2:03:58

this project.

2:03:58

>> That is correct.

2:04:02

>> Um you mentioned some of the parking

2:04:04

spaces. Uh am I correct that we're

2:04:06

providing uh 11 where 17's required?

2:04:10

>> Actually we're uh we're providing 10.

2:04:12

>> 10. Thank you.

2:04:14

Uh And is there adequate public parking

2:04:17

in the immediate vicinity?

2:04:19

>> Uh yes.

2:04:20

>> Public transportation nearby.

2:04:22

>> Uh that's correct.

2:04:26

>> Uh if you could just briefly kind of

2:04:27

point out the the variances. Jeff ran

2:04:29

through them, but it it helps I think to

2:04:31

see them on the plan.

2:04:32

>> Sure. Um beginning again on lot one.

2:04:34

There are no variances for lot one. Uh

2:04:37

lots two and three were uh requesting

2:04:40

variances for the parking requirement.

2:04:41

We're required one per lot for both two

2:04:44

and three. and we're proposing no off-

2:04:46

streetet parking. Uh lot four, we are

2:04:48

proposing three off- streetet parking

2:04:50

spaces, but given the constraints of the

2:04:53

dimensional constraints of the lots

2:04:54

themselves, those parking spaces have to

2:04:56

be within the rear yard setback along

2:04:58

Crab Apple Street.

2:05:01

Uh lot four, the what else I have there?

2:05:03

One tree removal as well on lot four.

2:05:06

Lot five, uh we are required two parking

2:05:08

spaces and as you can see, there's not

2:05:10

room on the site for those off- streetet

2:05:12

parking spaces. So, none proposed. Uh,

2:05:15

as Mr. Knight uh indicated, we need

2:05:18

relief from the sideyard setback along

2:05:20

uh Regina Street uh and uh the 20% width

2:05:26

prevailing width. Uh which I have on the

2:05:28

zoning data table as an average of about

2:05:30

22 feet, but that that really is an

2:05:32

average. Um

2:05:35

in lot six, there are two parking spaces

2:05:38

required and unproposed. We also have a

2:05:40

sideyard setback that'd be on the lefth

2:05:42

hand side or the west side of that lot

2:05:45

uh where we are encroaching into that 4

2:05:47

foot required setback and there are five

2:05:49

trees as Mr. McGomey mentioned lot seven

2:05:53

two parking spaces are required there

2:05:55

are zero proposed and again the sideyard

2:05:58

setback is required to be 4 feet we are

2:06:00

encroaching into that uh on that

2:06:02

left-hand side lot eight there are two

2:06:05

parking spaces required and zero are

2:06:07

proposed and lot nine we have three

2:06:11

proposed off- streetet parking spaces

2:06:12

but again given the constraints and the

2:06:14

desire to try to keep some lawn area

2:06:17

behind the lot or behind the units Um,

2:06:20

we are proposing those parking spaces

2:06:22

within the rear yard setback. There's

2:06:25

also a side sideyard encroachment on the

2:06:27

south side at the bottom of the plan.

2:06:29

Uh, that's a 4-ft requirement. And there

2:06:31

is one tree uh located in the area of

2:06:34

the parking spaces that is required to

2:06:36

be removed to provide those parking

2:06:37

spaces.

2:06:38

>> Nice job. Thank you. You could please

2:06:40

turn to exhibit A3.

2:06:48

Is exhibit A37 pages long?

2:06:55

>> I'm gonna go with yes.

2:06:56

>> Thank you. Um,

2:06:59

what is exhibit A3?

2:07:01

>> Uh, those appear to be Google Earth uh,

2:07:04

photos or I'm sorry, street view photos

2:07:06

from Google.

2:07:07

>> Would you disagree with me if I told you

2:07:09

these were images taken from the

2:07:11

narrative? Probably about half of the

2:07:13

images that that were included in the

2:07:15

narrative.

2:07:15

>> Uh, no. Do they generally give an idea

2:07:19

of of what these existing lots look

2:07:21

like?

2:07:22

>> Uh yes, they do. They're most of them

2:07:24

are open lawn areas with uh degraded

2:07:26

curbs and sidewalks.

2:07:28

>> Vehicles parked in the grass.

2:07:30

>> There are a few with uh vehicles that

2:07:32

are parked on them illegally.

2:07:40

>> And then lastly, uh if you could please

2:07:42

turn to exhibit A4.

2:07:46

What is exhibit A4?

2:07:48

>> That is a a rendering done by the

2:07:50

architect of what one of the units would

2:07:52

look like. It's a a four building unit

2:07:55

with eight units.

2:07:58

>> Uh and this is generally consistent with

2:08:00

what was done with phase one?

2:08:01

>> That's correct.

2:08:02

>> Great. Have you reviewed the application

2:08:05

and the narrative included with it?

2:08:07

>> I have. Yes.

2:08:07

>> And to the extent applicable, do you

2:08:09

adopt the comments made therein as your

2:08:11

own?

2:08:11

>> I do.

2:08:12

>> Great. So, we're happy to answer any

2:08:14

questions that that the board might

2:08:16

have.

2:08:23

>> Either one of you

2:08:26

can start.

2:08:32

>> Good evening. Thank you. I

2:08:36

start I saw a lot of your I'll give my

2:08:39

first question. Have you got your

2:08:43

Have you registered CRW for the storm

2:08:47

mitigation

2:08:50

storm mitigation?

2:08:52

>> Yes, we have. We've submitted the CRW

2:09:03

about fencing, but you're you're

2:09:05

basically saying fencing it doesn't

2:09:07

really match the neighborhood that this

2:09:08

is being put in or it's not a clear

2:09:12

match. And I always ask for architects

2:09:14

when they build in these areas, you

2:09:16

know, do you are you going to try to

2:09:17

match the area that you're building in?

2:09:19

Okay.

2:09:21

>> Correct.

2:09:25

>> Lighting. This is going to be

2:09:27

conjunction with security. Okay. This is

2:09:30

a pretty good chunk of uh Allison Hill

2:09:33

to the

2:09:36

west of Ma Street. Um

2:09:41

The lighting is are you going to are you

2:09:43

going to augment the lighting that when

2:09:45

we start building these places, put

2:09:48

additional lighting up?

2:09:49

>> We will. We have a lighting plan that

2:09:51

we're ready to submit with the land

2:09:52

development application of the city for

2:09:53

review. We'll have uh pole lights. God

2:09:56

bless you. Pole lights around the

2:09:58

parking areas. Um and then we do have

2:10:01

some wall packs up on the sides of some

2:10:03

of the buildings uh where we have yard

2:10:05

areas adjacent to those buildings.

2:10:08

you partner or have taken this and I

2:10:12

wonder has the HPD looked at this too

2:10:14

about that area again maybe putting some

2:10:17

cameras and stuff in that area.

2:10:19

>> I think there is a plan to have cameras

2:10:20

up. We have cameras up in phase one on

2:10:23

the units.

2:10:27

Well, we already have cameras on phase

2:10:29

one on every corner of each building,

2:10:32

all four corners and on some of the

2:10:33

pools

2:10:35

>> basically tied into HPD or

2:10:39

you're going to basically provide your

2:10:41

service buildings. Are you security?

2:10:46

>> Well, on phase one, our security our our

2:10:48

cameras go straight to the police

2:10:50

department. Plus, we we have them on our

2:10:52

on our phones as well. Far as owners

2:10:55

>> and the property managers.

2:10:57

>> Okay.

2:11:04

And

2:11:09

just to make clear, I'm aware of Cooper.

2:11:12

I've actually worked with them on other

2:11:14

projects through Tri County. So, okay.

2:11:17

of reputation in central Pennsylvania,

2:11:20

different developments, especially in

2:11:23

Carlile County. So, thank you. Um, and

2:11:29

you've already talked about the

2:11:30

affordability. Yes, you stole my thunder

2:11:34

there. Okay.

2:11:37

It's 60% of the U.

2:11:40

So, I'm getting tied up.

2:11:44

This is a

2:11:46

Okay.

2:11:49

Um, and I see it's it's going to be a

2:11:51

mixture of town houses, duplexes, and

2:11:54

you say triplexes. Um, these are going

2:11:57

to be uh two level buildings.

2:12:02

>> Yes, it'll be the mix of two and three

2:12:04

two and threetory buildings.

2:12:10

>> Let's see.

2:12:13

I'm going to ask this out of the city. I

2:12:15

know we did a lot a few years ago. We

2:12:18

took a lot of solar cells out that were

2:12:21

supposed to be put into storage or

2:12:22

something with these used to be on

2:12:25

Seventh Street.

2:12:26

>> The DH where DHH was. We took and

2:12:30

reclaimed all those solar panels, all

2:12:32

that equipment. You still we still have

2:12:34

that be added to this or

2:12:36

>> I I don't know if we still have those. I

2:12:38

remember at the time um one of the

2:12:40

things our um

2:12:43

uh our sustainability coordinator

2:12:45

admitted at the time is that they were

2:12:46

toward the end of their useful life and

2:12:49

I think between the time that they've

2:12:51

been taken down and now they're probably

2:12:55

not viable. And even if they still had

2:12:57

some uh viability left, like you

2:13:00

probably it probably wouldn't

2:13:03

benefit to use them as opposed to just

2:13:05

going out and getting new solar panels

2:13:07

that had a 30-year lifespan still to go.

2:13:09

So, I don't know that they're they're

2:13:10

available. My guess is they wouldn't be

2:13:12

a good candidate to use anyway.

2:13:18

>> Okay.

2:13:18

>> Would this be part of uh some of the

2:13:22

from the developer basically providing

2:13:25

solar assistance for

2:13:28

car requirements.

2:13:30

>> Um solar specifically is is not a part

2:13:33

of the plan but I can say um through the

2:13:35

financing we commit to a handful of

2:13:37

things. Um one of those is green

2:13:39

certifications. So this build or all

2:13:41

these buildings will be lead silver um

2:13:43

in addition to having a reduced hers

2:13:45

index for energy efficiency.

2:13:48

>> Again it goes back to the affordability

2:13:50

issue. Okay. you're going to be

2:13:53

basically moving into this.

2:13:57

That's all. Thank you.

2:13:59

>> Thank you.

2:14:06

>> Thank you.

2:14:16

>> Most of the funding for this is

2:14:19

Pittsburgh

2:14:24

Financial

2:14:28

>> FHLB. No, it would just be the majority

2:14:31

of financing is coming from um the

2:14:33

Pennsylvania Housing Finance Agency, not

2:14:35

the Pittsburgh FHLB.

2:14:37

>> Um but it's tax credit development.

2:14:40

>> So,

2:14:41

>> correct.

2:14:46

>> Okay.

2:14:48

U Mr. Knight, do you have anything else

2:14:50

to add? I just had one question though

2:14:52

for you too with regard to that

2:14:54

condition with regard to the fencing.

2:14:56

Any comment with regard to that?

2:14:58

>> I thought that might come up. Um and uh

2:15:00

no I it was not a necessarily it was a

2:15:03

recommendation not like a requirement

2:15:05

necessarily and uh you know we had

2:15:07

talked about security and things like

2:15:09

that and you know when we're looking at

2:15:11

projects especially new construction uh

2:15:13

we try and uh if not overtly um try to

2:15:18

implement like the uh SEPTED uh

2:15:20

principles which is crime prevention

2:15:22

through environmental design and like

2:15:24

one of the things they recommend doing

2:15:25

is I put up fences because it helps

2:15:27

establish like territorial reality and

2:15:29

access control to sites. Uh, but we do

2:15:33

uh can certainly appreciate the

2:15:35

applicants um uh concerns about

2:15:37

long-term maintenance and and whatever.

2:15:40

And and and as you saw in the pictures

2:15:42

that they provided there, like you do

2:15:43

see cars parked up on the grass, which

2:15:45

you see in some of the project sites

2:15:47

now. So, we just want to make sure in

2:15:49

some of these like interstitial spaces

2:15:50

around the buildings that we're not

2:15:53

leaving them open for similar

2:15:54

activities. So if they're putting in I

2:15:56

don't know boulders or arborvay or

2:15:58

something like that to just basically

2:16:00

prevent that kind of stuff and again to

2:16:02

create a yard really instead of

2:16:04

something that's just kind of open to

2:16:06

the street but like a yard a space for

2:16:08

the tenants to where they feel like you

2:16:10

know it's more private and uh you know

2:16:13

their own space uh however that occurs

2:16:16

landscaping fences whatever you know

2:16:18

we'd be happy and I think you know uh

2:16:21

they'll be the city arborist will be

2:16:23

reviewing the land development plan

2:16:24

that's submitted

2:16:25

And my guess is they'll have some

2:16:27

recommendations. We may even have

2:16:29

plings. We can, you know, help provide

2:16:31

the applicants in the interest of

2:16:32

affordability. Um, you know, we're out

2:16:34

there planting street trees, you know,

2:16:36

on a on a fairly regular basis. So, uh,

2:16:39

we can help to coordinate those efforts

2:16:41

that they're that we're already doing as

2:16:42

the city with what the applicants are

2:16:44

proposing here. And is that where

2:16:47

because that condition goes on right

2:16:48

where where it talks about the

2:16:50

coordinating with the city arborist but

2:16:52

also about planting new trees where they

2:16:55

may be removed or in tree pits that's

2:16:57

where also would come up in the land

2:16:58

development phase. Correct.

2:17:00

>> Correct. Yeah.

2:17:00

>> Right.

2:17:01

>> Yeah. I I think both with respect to the

2:17:04

uh to the fencing to kind of designating

2:17:07

areas and the sidewalk I think we're

2:17:09

generally good with you know continuing

2:17:11

to have discussions with Jeff through

2:17:13

land development. Um, so if those

2:17:15

conditions could be modified to to work

2:17:17

with planning as we go through land

2:17:19

development, I think that'd be our

2:17:20

preference.

2:17:22

>> How then let's do with with regard to

2:17:25

condition three for them to consider

2:17:27

because that's the other one with the

2:17:29

sidewalk. How right applicant should

2:17:32

reconstruct all sidewalks

2:17:35

um to the full width and which is really

2:17:37

the issue, right? The width is that

2:17:40

>> that's that's correct. We're trying to

2:17:41

make it we we would prefer to make it

2:17:43

consistent with phase one and and keep

2:17:46

them aligned with phase one for kind of

2:17:48

consistency in that neighborhood.

2:17:50

Certainly understand where where Jeff is

2:17:52

coming from and so we can continue to

2:17:54

have that conversation. I think you know

2:17:56

these these two groups work well

2:17:58

together.

2:17:59

At the end of the day, uh, you know, the

2:18:01

city engineer is in charge of, uh,

2:18:03

public rights away. Um, if the city

2:18:05

engineer feels the proposed sidewalks

2:18:08

are sufficient, you know, that'll be up

2:18:11

to them to make, uh, that no comment in

2:18:14

their review of the case. Uh, or if they

2:18:16

agree with the planning bureau or some

2:18:18

somewhere in the middle. Uh, so I think

2:18:20

that can definitely be coordinated in

2:18:22

future discussions with the applicant

2:18:23

and with the, uh, city engineers office.

2:18:25

Okay. Yep.

2:18:28

>> Okay.

2:18:29

you guys want to discuss or any anybody

2:18:33

uh here else that wants to com uh

2:18:35

comment on this application.

2:18:39

Okay.

2:18:47

All right. And what I would say right is

2:18:50

the approval then with condition one and

2:18:52

two. Okay.

2:18:54

>> Great.

2:18:54

>> Say okay. All right. Uh, do I have a uh

2:18:58

a motion to approve application uh 2640

2:19:04

uh for the special exceptions and the

2:19:06

dimensional variances with conditions

2:19:09

one and two stated by the planning

2:19:12

commission?

2:19:17

>> Motion.

2:19:18

>> Okay. Do I have a second?

2:19:20

>> Second.

2:19:20

>> Okay. All in favor?

2:19:22

>> I

2:19:23

>> Okay,

2:19:24

then uh it's approved and I will get

2:19:27

that decision out to you.

2:19:28

>> Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

2:19:30

Thank you.

2:19:30

>> All right.

2:19:32

Then just

2:19:34

>> let's just wait till they go because I

2:19:36

wanted to though discuss the first one

2:19:38

because

2:19:40

let me just in going through that first

2:19:44

one that applicant that owner

2:19:48

um if you go through and you look

2:19:50

through the the deeds it seems like he

2:19:53

then recently sold it again to somebody

2:19:56

else. So, which I don't then know who

2:20:00

that person is. Meaning that

2:20:03

who's on there isn't even then the owner

2:20:06

of it on the application. So, if we were

2:20:08

going to consider it, I would then

2:20:10

recommend you know what that that

2:20:13

applicant that owner who's listed on it

2:20:16

isn't even then the owner on it who

2:20:18

signed the application who would be then

2:20:20

the authorizing that and the architect

2:20:23

to pursue the zoning relief. That's not

2:20:25

even the owner anymore. And then I have

2:20:28

the um

2:20:33

let's see

2:20:35

it is okay application 2628

2:20:39

>> that it was then the deed establishing

2:20:42

this the the the owner listed on the

2:20:45

application that was uh October 2025.

2:20:49

And then since then there was another

2:20:50

deed established by the owner listed on

2:20:52

the application who then sold it to a

2:20:55

Levi Fiser who I don't know who it is or

2:21:00

anything like that that

2:21:04

perhaps that I don't know if that means

2:21:05

anything of why that person isn't here

2:21:07

today.

2:21:09

So, uh I actually kind of just

2:21:13

remembered after we had discussed it at

2:21:15

the beginning of tonight's meeting, uh

2:21:17

the applicants had last week said that

2:21:20

they that the property owner wanted to

2:21:23

come and attend the meeting, which they

2:21:25

hadn't been. They had had representation

2:21:27

of the project team. So, they want he

2:21:29

wanted to come and attend and wasn't

2:21:30

able to do so at tonight's meeting. So,

2:21:32

they did want a continuence. Um, and I

2:21:35

think we'll be able to sort these

2:21:37

>> as long as then as long as then they did

2:21:39

contact you, you get it in writing

2:21:42

>> then with them.

2:21:43

>> Okay. Then that's

2:21:45

fine because it was by by the way the

2:21:48

the the recommendation from the planning

2:21:51

bureau and the planning commission is

2:21:52

approval right with

2:21:54

>> correct right and all that conditions.

2:21:56

So, um, if, uh, you know, if that's the

2:22:00

case, because I would obviously if

2:22:02

somebody was here, they could explain,

2:22:03

hey, listen, this is actually the person

2:22:05

who was even the one that was going to

2:22:08

construct or develop the property into

2:22:10

the multif family dwelling unit, all

2:22:11

that type of thing. You know what I

2:22:13

mean? Then then that would explain it.

2:22:15

So, if you want to then uh consider

2:22:18

their request for, you know, for a

2:22:21

continuence, Mr. Knight will secure that

2:22:23

also though in writing. Um, but it does

2:22:25

seem like at least the request came

2:22:27

through to you because the thing that I

2:22:31

didn't want was just an architect being

2:22:34

here and not anybody else because that

2:22:36

doesn't Yeah, that's that's a little

2:22:39

risky then to sit there and do it's just

2:22:41

somebody like that.

2:22:42

>> There were there were other represent

2:22:43

representatives of the of the project at

2:22:46

the planning commission meeting, but it

2:22:47

was just the architect that was uh

2:22:49

presenting. um fine,

2:22:51

>> but and I can and like I said, um I they

2:22:55

informally asked for the continuence,

2:22:57

but I don't I didn't I can't recall what

2:22:59

the email said, whether it was like a

2:23:00

formal I do hereby request a

2:23:03

continuence. Uh but I will work with the

2:23:05

applicants to make sure that that

2:23:06

language comes that they can submit a

2:23:09

email with that language and I will

2:23:10

forward that to the zoning hearing board

2:23:11

once that's received. I would imagine I

2:23:13

would get that by tomorrow or Wednesday

2:23:15

at the latest.

2:23:16

>> Okay.

2:23:17

But I think at least to be safe tonight

2:23:18

that that that

2:23:20

we have um you know that you consider

2:23:23

the board consider a request for

2:23:25

continuence of application 2628.

2:23:28

>> So question so you said they sent a

2:23:31

request in for continuance

2:23:34

um and mentioned that the owner

2:23:37

>> to attend

2:23:38

>> wanted to attend.

2:23:39

>> So you're talking about this new owner

2:23:41

or the applicant?

2:23:42

>> Well, that's what I'm not sure of. So I

2:23:45

didn't I don't know. maybe the new

2:23:46

owner, maybe it's, you know, with it was

2:23:50

transferred within a company from like

2:23:51

one arm to another. I I'm not sure.

2:23:53

>> And that's what I don't know. You know,

2:23:54

some of them, you know, list like it was

2:23:56

a company in LLC that then this person

2:24:00

is, you know, within, you know, within

2:24:02

it and it just happens to be like, hey,

2:24:04

he's going to hand, you know, if it was

2:24:06

something like that that I couldn't

2:24:08

tell.

2:24:09

What I was expecting was they were going

2:24:11

to be here and I was going to then be

2:24:12

able to sit there, you know, and ask and

2:24:14

it may have been cleared up,

2:24:16

>> right?

2:24:16

>> Sir, you know, you know, fine. It'd be

2:24:18

different if it was like, you know,

2:24:20

recommended and this is kind of, you

2:24:22

know, you know, kind of thing, but it

2:24:25

is, you know,

2:24:26

>> recommendation is that since there's

2:24:27

some confusion here

2:24:33

that anything,

2:24:36

you can help clear it up. Right. And you

2:24:39

could even bring that up with them. They

2:24:40

sit there and say, "Hey, listen. You

2:24:41

know what? Uh that that I brought it up

2:24:44

that seems to be, you know, transferred

2:24:46

to this, you know, one person, make sure

2:24:48

that person is the one who's there."

2:24:51

>> Yeah. I I'll make sure I I'll make sure

2:24:53

I convey to them that they need to

2:24:54

reconcile the ownership issue to ensure

2:24:56

that they have legal standing to be

2:24:58

heard

2:24:58

>> because everything else could be, you

2:24:59

know, really could be fine. So yeah,

2:25:01

>> but uh how about a motion then to uh

2:25:04

grant the continuence of application

2:25:06

2628 to the um what is the June the the

2:25:11

the June zoning here board meeting?

2:25:14

>> Motion.

2:25:14

>> Okay. Do I have a second?

2:25:16

>> All in favor?

2:25:17

>> I

2:25:17

>> Okay.

2:25:19

>> Y

2:25:22

motion to adjurnn.

2:25:26

>> Motion to

2:25:31

the May 18th zoning board meeting.

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