Harrisburg City Council Budget Hearing Meeting - 12/4/2025

budget hearing. We are going to call the

meeting to order. So, Mr. Humphrey, if

you wouldn't mind doing the roll call.

>> Miss Daniels.

>> Miss Davis,

>> present.

>> Miss Green,

>> present.

>> Mr. Jones,

>> here.

>> Miss RWS.

>> Mr. Rodriguez,

>> present. Miss Hill

>> present.

>> Thank you. We're going to move right

into our committee business. We're going

to start with the Department of

Facilities and Special Projects.

>> Director Baker, if you wouldn't mind

introducing yourself, uh going over your

presentation, and then we'll open up for

questions.

>> Good evening, city council. Uh my name

is David Baker. I'm the facilities

director for the city of Harrisburg. I'd

like to present to you my uh 2026 uh

fiscal budget for your review.

Don't get too click happy.

It'll do it. All right. So, uh you can

go to the next slide. Obviously, this is

the cover page.

Um

[clears throat] so, any significant

budget changes for 2026. Uh as you can

see uh in the budget from the broken

down version, we do not have any

significant budget changes other than

your your typical uh inflation

estimation costs throughout the year. Go

to the next slide, please.

Uh the

diversity [clears throat]

uh numbers we have for the department

are as you see in front of you and our

multilingual percentages are there as

well.

So, the newly vacant positions and the

existing position that we have as vacant

are in front of you. Um, our existing

position that's vacant, unfortunately,

uh, the individual that had it uh had um

personal um issues that they they had to

overcome for a long period of time. So,

they ended up having to um, you know,

find other options as far as work goes.

But other than that, we are uh just

looking to continue in the forward

progress and and keep moving forward and

keep getting rid of or uh taking care of

things. Um

>> can you please speak in speak up into

the microphone because I can't hear

anything.

>> My apologies. Um if further on in the

slideshow, you'll see the uh the

financial benefit uh of the position

increase or the requests. So if we go to

the next slide.

Uh so the 2025 grant funding, these are

the overviews. Uh I won't bore you with

reading each line verbatim, but you can

see the different entities that uh we

received grant funding, the donors or

the funding agencies. Um and then a

rough synopsis of completion dates or uh

like a finalization information at the

bottom line uh for each of these

different areas.

Next slide, please.

Uh so the grant funding for 2026 uh you

can see the two areas that we're

focusing in uh would be the Martin

Luther King Jr. building and the Broad

Street Market. Um we do have uh we have

acquired uh as you can see there um in

the middle of the chart. Uh a LSA grant

for uh $400,000. The total ask was a

million. Um, and we have a $600,000 LSA

grant for this year that we've requested

in addition. We're hopeful we will get

uh once we receive that full million

dollars along with the lower portion of

145,000. Uh, we do plan on starting the

ADA remodels throughout the uh Martin

Luther King building. Um, and as

everyone knows, we're continuing to work

on the Broadst Street market as well.

Um so the year-to-ate budget so you can

see that the year-to-ate budget aligns

uh both 2025 and 2026

uh and we have not exceeded any of our

uh estimations as far as what goes for

this year.

So the department highlights uh you can

go to the next slide.

One of the very first department

highlights that we have uh would be the

FMB stadium project. Uh as you can see

there are some pictures that we've taken

throughout the process of the stadium uh

destruction and construction. Um there's

a few more slides that have additional

FMB pictures. We have hundreds of them

throughout the the term of the project.

Uh but this project is on track and on

budget to be completed at the end of

this year.

You can see there some of the clubhouse

pictures.

Uh the next slide is the public safety

building. Uh this was the ADA upgrades

and the HVAC and mechanical system

upgrades. Uh this is a $5.5 million

project we did over multi-year terms. Um

you can see in the bottom left, we

actually now have ADA compliant uh

wheelchair lifts in the public safety

building entryway, which we have never

had in the past. Um all of the asbesus

material was abated and removed

properly. All the ducting uh that was

far surpass its life uh has been

replaced with new uh energy efficient

equipment and material.

Go to the next slide.

Here's a little bit more of the finished

product of the public safety building.

Um just shows you different shots and

different rooms.

Uh next is the Broad Street Market. Uh

this is some of the preliminary

demolition uh for the Broad Street

Market and as uh everybody is is

probably aware, we still are on track uh

for May of 2027 uh for completion. Uh we

know we're going to hit some some bumps

in the road. Uh but uh as of right now,

we are absolutely on track and there's

been nothing that has really derailed

us. Uh we're taking into account the

weather, uh taking into account people's

schedules, and uh we know that we're

going to see some unforeseen on the

ground here once we start uh doing some

of the serious earth work. But as of

now, we are we are right on track. Go to

the next slide. Additional pictures.

Feel like I should have a movie

soundtrack with the pictures, but

all right, you can go to next slide.

So, uh, these are some of the projects

that we've completed in 2025. And on the

right hand side, we have some of the

projects that we're still currently

working on. Um, again, instead of boring

you reading all of them, uh, maybe just

some of note. Um

the uh police department uh actually has

a street crimes unit uh that was being

held for uh years and years in the night

court area of the first floor of the

police station. I didn't even know about

this until this year, but um we have

done full aspesus abatement. We've done

wall demo. Uh you name it. Uh we've

we've kind of refabbed that space for

them. So it's now uh much more user

friendly. Uh, it's a nice place to go to

work each day and it's, you know, it was

a little scary previously, but it's

looking real nice. So, if you ever get a

chance, you know, ask the police for a

tour, if they take you down there, it's

it's a nice looking space. Um,

the upgrades in in uh to the security

throughout the the buildings and all the

city. Also, the fire monitoring, that's

something we try and get done little by

little each year.

um sprinkler system upgrades. That's

something it's not just upgrades, it's

also a lot of maintenance just because

uh after a certain amount of time they

age out. We we need to continue getting

things certified. Um energy efficient

lighting. Again, we always always try

and and stay on top of that. Um there's

anything in here that you guys uh want

specific information on, you know, we

can always go back at the end of the

show and I'm I'm happy to to give more

of that.

Go to the next one.

Um, so again, this is going to show you

multiple slides of the in-house projects

as opposed to the outsourcing the costs.

Uh, this is where I was saying you'll

see some of the math uh for how it makes

sense for our in-house staff to be here.

Um, just I mean there there's a decent

amount of these slides, but we're only

naming a few of these things and you can

see, you know, some of the small jobs

it's a few thousand. some of the large

shots, it's it's many thousand dollars,

but it just keeps scrolling through here

and you can see the different jobs. Um,

with the weapon storage, the police

asked us to uh create something for them

there. We worked with them for a little

while when they did the evidence remodel

and that one itself u you know, we were

able to save them over $11,000 with just

one set of shelving. So, um, you can

imagine

So, we have retrievers throughout the

city, at least in the MLK building. Um,

and they are just incredibly antiquated.

No one can really use them for the most

part, and they are kind of a a bear to

get rid of. So, once we do that, we free

up a lot of space for actually people to

utilize um as far as in the office. So,

this is just a quick slide showing that

uh fire station. And again, you can see

the pricing uh for the work. And the

other thing to think about here is it's

not just the the cost savings. Uh but

this is the emergency response timing

where we have an emergency uh service

that needs something to be up and

running so they can function. They call

us and we're there uh within minutes or

or an hour compared to if it's 90

degrees out and you call an HVAC

company, they might show up the same

day. They might show up two or three

days later. So we can prioritize our own

people here.

So again, you can see the different

projects, some large, some small, and

then cost savings with all of them.

This the last one for the cost savings.

Then

the

>> All right.

>> Hello. Is it fixed?

>> If you're speaking, I can't hear

anything at all.

>> I'm not pressing anything.

Yeah. You like the robot thing?

>> I can talk like this, but I I don't

think she can hear me on the phone.

>> Can you hear me like this? Yeah, it's

fixed.

All right, we're fixed.

That's me.

All right. So, the next slide,

uh, this just kind of buttons up all

those previous slides you saw. This

shows, again, this is just a snapshot of

the, um, cost savings for in-house labor

compared to outsourcing.

All right, when you're ready, we can go

to the next one.

And again, this is a question that was

asked, so we are answering um, down

below here. Uh if you'd like to read

these, if there's any questions that you

have about them specifically, uh the

elevator in the PSB, that is one that is

uh is definitely um giving us a run for

our money, but um we are continuing to

uh take care of everything here below.

I was told I was not allowed to put

Porky the Pig on there talking, so we

didn't do it.

All right. Uh, does council have any

questions I can answer for you?

>> Thank you very much, Director Baker. Um,

is Council Member Ross here?

>> I am going to then start with our public

works chair with Councilman Rodriguez.

Do you have any questions?

Thank you, Madame Vice President.

Director Baker is always a pleasure to

see you. Um, I have no questions

regarding this. I stay in pretty

frequent contact with the heads of the

department, so I'm pretty privy to

everything that you just went over, but

I really appreciate the presentation

tonight and everyone's hard work in the

department. So, thank you for all you

do.

>> Thank you.

>> Thank you, President Hill. Any

questions?

>> Yes, thank you. Um, thank you for your

responses regarding the department's

diversity compliment and the percentage

of employees that are bilingual within

the department. Um, you also answered

questions regarding the vacancies within

the department. So, thank you for that.

Um, my question lies, can you please go

back to slide number five?

Thank you.

My question is around the hall manner

pool. The 2 million for the geoteex

study and 6 million for construction.

The geotechnical and environmental study

is ongoing with an estimated completion

date I guess of the end at the end of

the year. Can you speak to that? It

seems like that has been ongoing for

some time.

>> Yes. So uh well just to clarify so the

the public's aware of this. I'm sure

council is, but the 2 million was a

placeholder. It's not the actual amount

that we spent on the geotech or

environmental study.

>> Um, but as far as the timeline goes, uh,

we did have a lot of, um, there was some

prep work to do for this. We do have to

get some boxes checked before we move

forward with it. Uh, but it was also one

of those things that we had grants that

had a much shorter clock on them that we

had to kind of prioritize work-wise as

far as the amount of staff that we had.

And this was one of the ones that we had

a little more time on. So, we actually

started working on this a little later

in the year than some of the other

grants. So, it did end up getting

finished a little later in the year.

>> Okay. And so, the estimated completion

deadline is what? December 31st or what

are you thinking?

>> Yeah, we expect to be done before the

end of the year.

>> Okay.

And then the parks,

uh, we generally get a lot of questions

around construction, what's happening,

what's going on. So, I see that there's

a mandatory completion date of January

31st, 2026. Do you anticipate um

completion before then, or are you

thinking you'll need the entire month of

January?

>> Uh, to the best of my knowledge, they

are uh fairly on track as far as the

work goes. uh for the majority of the

parks um is the completion date. Again,

this is, you know, weather is going to

be dependent [clears throat] on how fast

whether we lose days or we are able to

gain days. Um from what I've been told,

the majority of the park should be done

uh by the end of the year. So, we should

be within where we need to be as far as

completion goes for the grant funding.

>> Okay. If by chance you need to utilize

the month of January, um there's no um

loss in in funding since they've set a

mandatory date.

>> So that's something that our grant funer

would probably have to speak to. Uh

we've not been given specific direction

on exactly what the repercussions would

be if we did not meet the guidelines.

>> Okay. Thank you. I don't have any other

questions. Thank you very much,

Councilwoman Davis. Any questions?

>> No, I don't have any questions at this

time. Thank you.

>> Thank you, Councilwoman Daniels. Any

questions?

>> No questions for this portion.

>> Thank you. And Councilman Jones, any

questions?

>> Uh yeah. Um I was a little distracted,

but my question was similar to President

Hills um regarding the the parks and the

completion date and worried about the

clawback. Um, I know there was an

article out saying that uh a lot of the

money could be I I don't know how close

they are to completion, but um and you

said you you're very close to completing

those projects.

>> Yeah, I think uh 7th of RER Gorgus and

and we have um the project manager here

for those parks and our parks and rec

team are here as well if you need more

detail on there. Um but I believe the

majority of the parks uh should be

completed by their estimated completion

date.

>> Now are you allowed to ask for an

extension or no?

>> So we have asked we've had multiple

extensions on uh these projects

specifically. Uh we did uh just recently

ask for an additional extension and we

were granted uh an additional I think it

was a tertiary 30-day extension on this

>> and that reflects with the January 31st

date.

>> Yes.

>> Okay. Um, the other thing, uh, the spray

alley, um, can you explain that project

a little bit? Um,

for some reason I I thought we had

scrapped that at at one point. Um, so

can you explain that one a little bit to

me?

>> So, spray alley would be uh just a small

spray pad portion where you know where

the existing road is at Reservoir Park

in the lower level below the it's above

the band shell area. Um it's typically

this park you see it's always closed off

out at reservoir

>> by the parking lot.

>> It is next to the parking lot. Yes. So

it's above that elevation wise but it's

right next to the parking lot.

>> And so that portion

>> right in between there I mean you got

shoots and ladders I mean

>> above y okay

>> and parking lot below. And that roads

you know right through it intersects

between those two. So in that portion uh

that is where there's going to be water

features and you know small spray

effects in that area for the kids. So,

they'll have, you know, all the dry play

equipment in in the um shoots and

ladders portion. Uh they'll have a t lot

down below and in the middle there'll be

a spray out with water features and, you

know, bathrooms and whatnot out there.

>> And that costs what? 3 million 36.

>> I I think it's that's what we have

budgeted for that portion of the

project.

>> All right. Um no further questions.

Thank you, Councilwoman Davis.

>> Thank you, Vice President Green. Mr.

Baker, I just wanted some clarification

on the uh the outsource cost and the

in-house cost. Are they Can you

elaborate on the two?

>> Sure. Yeah.

>> So, we currently have uh two um

universally certified mechanical

technicians. So, they're universally

certified in HVAC uh free on handling

and all that. um if we have uh skilled

labor work that needs to be done, uh

those individuals are tasked and then we

have um other individuals that are in

our custodial staff that can do uh some

of the other uh less less skilled tasks.

Certain things like this where we're

doing um you know commercial life safety

products or we're doing commercial uh

plumbing. Uh that would be uh one of the

two individuals that does you know more

of our our high level uh maintenance

side of things. Um those are the

individuals that are responsible uh for

replacing this stuff. Instead of having

like for this uh picture of the toilet

on the left you have a um residential

gravityfed toilet which uh the um

individuals that utilize that on that

floor uh can sometimes have problems

with things actually going down through

because of the the flow rate of the

flush. And over on the right is a

commercial um ADA regulation uh

high-pressure

commercial toilet. So just having things

like that again like you have old

antiquated um exit signs without any

sort of emergency lighting to them and

uh they'd be replaced with new LED signs

with all the proper and code regulation

emergency lights. So, these are things

we've gotten quotes for and then made

the determination that uh we would have

the bandwidth to do them and we would

save a considerable amount of money. So,

we then made that decision to have our

in-house staff do this work instead of

sub it out to an outsource contractor.

>> You

Thank you very much. Um I don't really

have any questions for you. Um your

presentation was thorough enough. Um

we've had discussions before. I've kind

of seen the work. Uh, I will say, uh,

the Seventh and Ratner Street

playground's coming along really nice.

Um, I like the design. Um, a lot of

residents are really, uh, liking the way

it's coming together and I'm getting a

lot of positive feedback about that. So,

um, seeing things like that and other

playgrounds and parks would be much

appreciated as well. Uh, so, thank you

for the work that you do. I know

sometimes it goes unnoticed

>> and I think that's something that we

definitely need to recognize our parks

and rec crew for as well, that they're

they're definitely uh, the spear on the

tip of that one. So,

>> thank you very much. Any other questions

or comments for Director Baker?

Seeing none, thank you for being here

tonight.

>> Thank you, members council.

>> Next, we will move to the Bureau of City

Services or Public Works.

>> [clears throat]

>> Good evening. Thank you for being here

tonight. Mr. Griffin, excuse me. Uh, if

you wouldn't mind introducing yourself,

going over your presentation, and then

we will save questions for the end,

unless someone just has a burning

question in the middle. Okay. Good

evening, council. My name is Austin

Griffin. I am the operations project

manager for the city of Harrisburg.

I will be going through our city of

Harrisburg public works presentation

today.

We will start with our

public works demographics.

Our highway shop has 15 employees,

four of which are Caucasian, 11 are

African-Amean.

Our VMC department has eight employees.

One is uh called out as other. Seven of

them are called out as Caucasian.

Sanitation has 41 employees. Two

Caucasian, 29 African-American,

10 Hispanic is the numbers for

sanitation. And our parks maintenance

department has 21 employees with 15

Caucasian,

one African-American, and six Hispanics.

Our billing department has four

employees, two of which are Caucasian,

one African-American,

and one

Hispanic

Joey. management is uh

compiled of 20 employees,

one other

four of which Caucasian,

14 African-American, and one Hispanic.

That is a total of two

called out as other 36 Caucasians, 60

African-Americans, and 18 Hispanics.

We will move to the public works

staffing updates. Our sanitation

department

has two vacancies. Oh no, one vacancy. A

motor op motor equipment operator that

is currently in in backgrounds as we

speak. So we do have two new positions

for 2026. A motor equipment operator and

a labor three.

We were asked a specific question about

those those two positions and

the answer to that we we were asked what

are the anticipated impacts of these new

positions on city services. The answer

to that will be the city will take over

the state surplus and recycling for the

department of general service the the

DGS in 2026.

We also extended uh the contracts for

sanitation collection in Stilton,

Penrook, and Paxton as well. So those

two will help out with all of the other

sanitation needs that we have.

Our vehicle maintenance center does have

one mechanic position open as well.

So the next slide

shows our neighborhood services budget

changes. I would like to highlight the

decrease to the equipment vehicle line

item by 108,000

and also the miscellaneous contractor

services line item by 300,000.

The next slide will show the

neighborhood services budget overages.

As you can see, we're are pointing out

the line items that were uh over in uh

2025 and the amounts needed for 26.

This slide show shows the changes in the

VMC budget for 2026.

Other rentals increased from 1.1 million

to 1.3 million. This is due to tariffs

and costs of building of of the vehicles

themselves and this new hires as they're

they're doing more work and everything.

So, it's more money was needed.

to rent things for those employees.

Software was uh decreased from 77,800

to 50,000.

VMC already purchased some of the

equipment and software to diagnose the

vehicles. So, we didn't we needed we

just decreased that since we bought them

this year.

Motor fuels and lubricants

uh was increased from 960,000 to 1

million just the increase in the cost of

gas and lubricants itself. So, that just

Naturally,

tires and batteries was decreased from

150,000

to 125,000. Uh we we're buying cheaper

tires and batteries from a vendor who

has a better price. So pretty pretty

simple. Vehicle parts and supplies

increased from 500,000 to 530. Uh just

more work is being done in house instead

of sending it outside. So we need to buy

more parts.

The next slide

is for our This next slide highlights

any uh grants or special projects for

the upcoming year. This year we will be

working with a 902 grant for the

purchase of a new leaf truck from the

Department of Environmental Protection.

We would also like to mention Hotspot

Saturdays as a continuing special

project that has shown success

throughout the summertime. A total of 70

78.4 tons of trash was removed from our

city with the help of Councilman

Rodriguez's program and we just thank

you for what you've been doing.

The next slide, the next slide shows a

few of the performance metrics used in

the highway and sanitation departments.

These are some of the things we look

look at as managers to determine the

success of of the year. I'd like to

highlight the percentage of projects

completed by our in-house crew

has gone up to 99 streets have been

completed over the past four paving

seasons, which which is quite a bit of

work done by those guys. And they work

hard when they're out there paving. It's

it's hot and the p the materials even

hotter. So, I just want to shout them

guys out if they're watching.

I doubt it, but and also want to uh

highlight the 6,613

calls handled by our administration

regarding illegal dumping and blight

complaints. That's a lot of calls that

just come in constantly that we we we

then handle after the complaint comes

in. We send the guy out to handle and

this the cycle goes on.

We will now move to some public works

highlights starting with sanitation.

The numbers you see there speak for

themselves and show how hard our

our employees work for the residents of

this city. This year alone, we have

collected

560.49

tons of illegal dumping totaling

$137,04541,

which is a lot of

trash picked up outside of the normal

trash routes that these guys have to do

on a normal basis.

Our

highway department paved 30 streets this

season and took down 29 condemned

houses.

Our vehicle maintenance department

continues to save the city money by

doing in-house work as well and having

continued to sell older vehicles and

parts, bringing in around $150,000

by getting rid of these old vehicles and

stuff that are just sitting around.

The next slide will address the

additional questions asked

which was how does the

budget support the 2026 projects?

We have an aggressive plan this year to

attack our city's blight and dumping

issues.

This budget will help us fight this

battle by providing additional

surveillance, enforcement, and cleanup

response times.

The two priority capital expenditures

for 2026 are two trash trucks, one front

load and one rear load. These two trucks

will be used both for commercial and

residential use. Our

next slide, our next slide shows some of

our special projects done by the

sustainability department.

The removal of the solar panels has been

one of our ongoing projects over the

last couple of months. 1,5 panels have

been sold for a total of $11,825.

Sustainability Department has also

secured $120,000

for the installation of solar energy at

firehouse fire station number one as

well.

And we will move to some highlights from

sustainability.

Uh one acre of turf grass on the back

slope of Reservoir Park was converted

into a native meadow.

They also conducted uh 12 educational

bird walks for the community in various

city parks.

Harrisburg has officially become a bird

town of Pennsylvania.

So

I will now turn over the uh rest of the

presentation to our engineer to present

for traffic and engineering.

>> Yeah. Before we move into traffic and

engineering, we will see if there are

any questions for public works. You just

try to skip right over the questions

like let me go ahead and move on to

traffic. [laughter] I was going to let

him go and then come back and answer the

question.

>> Halt. [laughter]

>> We're going to start with

>> Yes, it was a good move. You tried it.

>> Yeah.

>> I would have just kept walking.

[laughter]

>> Where are you going?

>> We're going to start with Councilman

Rodriguez. Um, since this is your

department, do you have any questions?

>> Um, once again, uh, Director Austin,

it's always good seeing you and the

team. Uh, I mean, we we work very well

throughout the years, um, on a lot of

initiatives that people wouldn't even

know the calls and I just really

appreciate Mr. Jackson, yourself, Mr.

John, Mr. West, I mean, the whole team,

engineering, I I wish I could name

everyone individually, but we don't have

that much time. But the countless calls

that come in and how expeditiously you

guys act and the residents are so

thankful for that. I mean, everything

from emails to calls to even greeting

cards of thank yous that we get. I mean,

I I I just really thank you and I'm

appreciative of the work you guys do.

Um, Austin, we've been on many street

uh including Sycamore. You know, I just

went over there to talk to the state,

you know, workers and you just so

happened to pop up. So, it just goes to

the point of the dedication of not only

the work that you guys do, but how

relentless I am as a chair of public

works. I just want to oversee projects

and ask questions. I even popped up at

Broad Street Market and asked about the

bricks and the mortar. I know they was

like, "Who's this guy?" Cuz I'll pop up

with a hoodie and a scully. They

wouldn't even have an idea. But, you

know, um the work you guys do, even

just putting signs in the road when

residents have complaints, these are

things sometimes that are overlooked.

And I just want to give you guys my many

thank yous. I don't have enough for

many. Um but I know for a fact that the

hotspot Saturdays, that's a waiver that

we get through our um Lewmer partnership

and a few others. But I know Councilman

Jones had a question regarding um the

fees. Oh

u

[laughter and clears throat]

because I was interested as well. Um

with the illegal dumping, I think it

costed over a hundred grand. Where does

that money come from? What line item?

Uh, as far as the city, where does that

come from?

>> Um, that line item, there's there is an

actual line item for

>> in the neighborhood services.

>> That's a good question.

[clears throat]

>> The 137, the public work highlight 137.

>> Yeah, I don't think we put that. Um,

>> you got that one?

that line.

I think it's the disposal.

That's what I was thinking. So that

would be in the uh neighborhood services

budget

>> 422091

is the

>> that's where actual for the illegal dump

>> and it's it's labeled as disposal.

>> Okay.

>> Say the line item.

>> So the whole thing would be 2566000000

42 2091.

>> Awesome. Thank you. is labeled disposal.

>> Thank you. And also wanted to thank the

team for uh not only assisting cleaning

up on the illegal dumping, but also

assisting me in getting these

individuals or these property owners

cited. We've actually been victorious in

court this year a few times. Um making

sure that we went all the way through

through the DJ. So, thank you all. Um I

have nothing further. Thank you.

>> Thank you. Since Councilman Jones seems

to have burning questions down there,

we'll move to the left to Councilman

Jones. I mean, he he took No, he didn't

take care of it all, but uh thank you

for uh clarifying that. Um I was just

curious of where that spending was

coming from. Um the second question I

have is I see I appreciate all the

department heads that um look to save

the city money. Um because we

desperately need to save some money

around here. So, I definitely appreciate

that. Um but um I can see um you you

you've [snorts] cut some costs uh

significantly.

However, um can we get kind of a

comparison of what we actually spent and

what we actually saved? I would like to

see those numbers to I mean because you

guys did cut in a lot of places. I mean

by 100,000 here, 20,000 here. So if you

can compile those numbers, it would be

great to be able to highlight um the

work you guys are doing.

>> So you want to see department by

department or you have specific

>> Well, well, yes. All of the things that

you

>> BMC as as a whole?

>> Absolutely.

>> Appreciate you. Yes,

>> that's it.

>> Thank you very much. President Hill, any

questions?

>> I don't think I have any questions.

Thank you. A lot of my questions were

asked and answered around the diversity

compliment

um and the vacancy. So, I don't have any

questions. Thank you all for your work.

>> Excuse me, Vice President Green.

Councilwoman RS is here now.

>> Thank you very much, Councilwoman Ross.

Any questions?

>> Uh, thank you and I apologize for my

lateness. I was in the wrong Zoom

meeting waiting to be let in. So, there

goes the last for the night. Um, but I

don't have any questions.

>> Thank you very much, Councilwoman Davis.

Any questions?

>> Thank you, Vice President Green. I don't

have any questions. I just want to com

commend you all for the work that you're

doing in community.

um always

answering the phone there your

secretaries and if we leave a message

they call back pretty quickly. Um Kevin

Jackson,

hi Kevin. Nice to meet you face to face.

I think I talked to you earlier this

week. Thank you for that dump you

cleaned up,

you know, in 92 in the neighborhood. So

I can't thank you guys enough. you are

really on top. I can't thank you guys

enough. You are really on top of your

game when it comes to the city, to the

residents. Um, no complaints at all.

Nothing but kudos. Thank you for

everything that you do.

>> That's all we care about is the

residents.

>> Yeah. Thank Thank you very much,

Councilwoman Daniels. Any questions?

>> No questions. Thank you.

>> Thank you. Uh, now that it's back to me

and all my questions, I'm joking. I

don't have any questions for you. Um, I

do thank you and your entire team for

your dedication. I know during the

Sycamore paving project, just about

every day when I would drive by, you'd

be out there with a cup of coffee at the

curb cuts walking around monitoring

everything. Um, and I'm sure it's it's

not just because that it was that

street, but I'm sure it's it's just what

you do when the projects are going on to

make sure that you're that the city is

getting its money's worth and things are

being done right. Um, and that's greatly

appreciated because I know um, in years

past sometimes like work will be done.

I'm like, how do we let somebody pave

our street like this? It's done and now

it's a lumps all in the road. Like there

are bumps and you know it's just not

done correctly and our residents deserve

more than that. It's not like people are

giving us a discount. Right.

>> No, we the same thing they getting

everywhere else.

>> Exactly. And I appreciate you holding

>> that's what we're going to get,

>> right? Holding everybody to that

standard and making sure we don't get

less than. So I appreciate you and your

team for all that you do. Any other

questions or comments?

>> Oh, yes. Thank you, uh, Vice President

Green. I was going to ask, since you

mentioned the roads, are there any plans

for doing any other paving uh, in the

first quarter of 2026 or in the near

future? And do we have any plans to add

any uh, street signs?

>> Street street

>> street signs.

>> Street signs.

>> Yeah, I'm going to let Mr. um

>> Okay. siders present and he'll answer

some of those questions with his

presentation.

>> Vice President Green. Uh yeah, I just

wanted to um also before

>> I was going to say as far as in-house

paving, yes, we are uh definitely

planning on for uh 2026. Our goal is

always at least 30 streets a year. We

try to depending on what you run into.

We've been blessed. Uh, usually we have

a milling company come in, they'll take

off like inch and a half of surface and

then we repave it. If we run into a

problem, we have to do extensive

repairs. So, we've been blessed to not

have to do extensive repairs at just

that top two, one and a half to two

inches is good and then we repave over.

So, but our plan is to try to do 30

streets a year. That's our plan.

And I know you have a list because you

collect that information when people

call in and complain about potholes and

different things. So,

>> yes.

>> Um, how do you determine which streets

that you do first? And where does that

money come from to pave those streets?

Like what line item?

>> So, the I'll handle it in reverse. So,

the money comes from state liquid fuse.

We use state liquid fuels for all the

materials. We have a line called uh

asphalt with it's a state grant that we

get every year. We use that money

straight from the state for all

materials. And yes, we collect the data

over the years over the year and then we

have to send our list to the utilities

uh UGI Capital Region Water and we find

out what streets they're doing projects

on. if they're doing projects on the

street, uh we determine how much of the

road or street that they have to repave

before we do it. But we usually just

leave that street alone and then we

usually move on until they get finished

with their project and then we reassess.

But it's usually goes out to those

utilities after that. Then we get the

list together again. We determine from

worse to better.

>> Okay, good. Thank you for that.

>> Yeah. Um I just also wanted to congrat

you know commend you guys on the work.

Um, I talked to a few of you guys a lot.

You guys come right out um and handle

the situations, but I do want to uh

point out some streets that, you know,

we could probably work on. [laughter]

Nah, seriously. Um, I I really

appreciate around the schools where

those streets were paved. I think that

was um priority. Those were very

important, especially with our children

being out there. And um the linings to

make sure people the crosswalks, all of

that stuff is is is good stuff. the

signage, all of that. Um, you do you

guys do I don't know, maybe

administration to throw you guys a party

at the end of the year, right?

Seriously, because you guys get a lot of

uh thank yous and and kudos from from uh

the residents. They really appreciate

the work that you guys do. So, I just

wanted to congratulate you as well.

That's it.

>> Thank you very much. Anyone else before

we move on to traffic and engineering?

Seeing none, thank you again.

Good evening. My name is Joel Slers. I'm

the city engineer. I'll representing the

budgets for both traffic and

engineering.

So for traffic uh significant budget

changes are in our miscellaneous

contracted services that was increased

from 2025 due to uh proposed line

striping uh additional line striping

that we want to do throughout the city

as well as uh additional cost of

replacing uh signal controllers as uh

for our emergency response system. We

had two decreases. And this was just

based on our yearly average. We saw a

kindly decrease. So we we figured we

didn't need as much uh for this year.

So the traffic department is uh very

diverse as as you can see here. Um

[clears throat]

there are no grants or special projects

in the department of traffic. There are

also no no ARPA funded projects either.

And since the department is completely

full, there are there are no new uh

requested project uh positions for 2026.

And as uh there are also no increases

anticipated and above the the standard

amount.

So what the Department of Traffic does

is they maintain our 96 signalized

intersections, 6,000 street lights,

100,000 signs throughout the city. And

part of their their goals and highlights

are they maintain all those on a

day-to-day basis. Um, and they also

secure the road closures for all of the

events through the city for the the

parades and and all the uh closures

downtown. And they are also in the um

hopefully to increase the electric in

Riverfront Park next year.

So as part of their performance metrics,

they they meet weekly to kind of report

what has been done throughout the work.

And then they also measure their

response time to emergencies. This

includes both uh signal um signal

emergencies, street light emergencies,

but it also uh emergency one calls that

come in to to the city.

I'll be now moving to the office of the

city engineer.

The office of the city engineer

provides engineering

project management and construction

inspection services throughout the

entire city. Anything that's within the

rightway falls under this department's

perview.

And the department ensures that all

projects are done in accordance with

city ordinances as well as state laws.

[clears throat] And then we also

like to see ourselves as a technical uh

assistance to any department within the

city. So we we do a lot of interdep

departmental coordination uh as needed.

So for the uh department of engineering,

we currently have six positions. As you

can see here, we they're also quite

diverse as well.

And we have a new position ask for next

year. And I believe in order to truly

understand this this position, I'd like

to kind of just briefly explain our

permitting process. Anytime there's a a

cut within the rightway per city

ordinance,

a permit must be taken out through the

the

engineering office. This is quite a

large task when we have 500 permits a

year. It includes permit creation,

payment processing, permanent closeout,

tracking, utility coordination,

contractor coordination. Currently, out

of the six employees, we have two

engineering representatives that handle

all these permits by themselves. This is

a tremendous task for two people because

they they're also responsible for

construction inspection of those street

cuts to ensure uh pre-construction

inspection. They have to be present

during construction to answer any

questions that the contractor may have.

And then they also have to have a post

construction uh inspection to to ensure

all the specifications have been met.

It's my intent with that with this new

position to pull all that administrative

work from the two engineering reps to

what I'm calling the permit manager. So

this position would handle all the

administrative work for those permits,

all the coordination with the

contractors,

uh all the database upkeep because

there's a warranty for uh every street

cut. So if say our highway department

finds it a bad patch on the road, they

can come out to us. We can check yes,

that's still under warranty. That

contractor needs to come back out and

make it right. And then with that

position, then the two engineering

representative positions would then have

full-time inspection work that they can

actually accomplish what they need to

do.

>> While you were thinking, um, Mr. siders.

Uh that position at 65 um that tax for

the budget line,

>> is that is there any comps any in nearby

um municipalities for that position?

Like are we right within the range we

should be for that position?

>> So I based it off of the the engineering

the highest an engineering

representative can go as as well as um

what the current project manager makes

and try to average that out. I see it as

a a progressional step like a

promotional path within the department.

Engineer rep, permit manager, project

manager.

>> And do you think just one would be

sufficient for now?

>> I believe so.

>> Okay. Thank you.

So as part of uh one of the the

questions asked for the the um

department of engineering was the

increased ask for our consulting line

item.

This is the the first year that we

actually have a design services

contractor uh under contract as well as

a construction inspection contractor.

And [clears throat]

why both are needed is Wallace

Montgomery is our design services um

engineer. They handle all of our design

work. They handle our big development.

They handle traffic studies, anything

else that we may need because

we are such a a small department. We

need help. And the urban engineering

then handles the construction services

contracts. These are the larger projects

like Sycamore Street, Ver Hill Street.

They're out there daytoday with the

contractor making sure that everything

is followed per plan.

And so that that is one of the reasons

for the ask. The second reason is uh

division street preliminary design.

Typically I handle some of these larger

projects in our capital projects fund

but I see that fund as more of a

projects ready to be constructed

projects that are funded by grants.

Division Street is neither of those. Uh,

it is still currently unfunded. We are

pursuing grants for construction, but um

I don't want to delay. So, I'm pushing

design on that as well. So, I figured it

was more transparent to put that design

cost in our consulting line item.

And

some of the highlights that uh we've

accomplished this year was our Berry

Hill Street.

sick street here as you can see the the

crosswalk in front of F Elementary

and then a capital gateway

from that was a safety improvement

project from Front [clears throat]

Street to Second Street including uh

some islands of refuge so it's much

safer for pedestrians to cross at that

intersection

Chestnut Street from third to fourth

street was and also ADA and safety

improvement and We also added a raised

crosswalk.

And of course, our a public work stone

that we completed very early this year

and is currently in use by our

sanitation department.

But [clears throat]

not only are do we handle construction,

we also do a lot of design work. And

this is all the design work that we

currently have ongoing to possibly next

year or even the future to help us plan

out our budgets multiple years in

advance. One of the things with

engineering is that construction always

has to lag design by at least a year. So

right now we're getting the the cycle

going and I want to keep pushing it

forward.

The performance metrics that we use in

engineering is

specific to each design and construction

project. Um for instance, a construction

project you might have a 25% spend. So

you you check it against a 25%

completion to see if they match. If not,

there there's an issue. Uh likewise with

design and that's where we run into the

monthly meetings with all of our

consultants and we discuss any budget

overruns, any potential problems and

potential solutions.

on our street cut signs where we deal

with the utility companies and their

contractors. We hold per periodic

meetings with them especially for the

larger uh projects such as the sewer

work up on Market Street. We're in

constant coordination with their CRW and

their contractor. And then for each

individual

employee within the department of

engineering, we're developing standard

operating procedures for that employee

and every activity they do to better

measure their success.

Thank you.

>> Thank you very much, Mr. Snder. I am

going to start to not my far far left,

but my far left with Councilman

Rodriguez again.

Thank you, Madam Vice President. Um, Mr.

Ciders, is always good to see you. Uh, I

have no questions. Um, we speak pretty

frequently with the departments. Uh, I

just appreciate the work you guys are

doing and all of the, uh, upgrades that

we're doing and it's good to see a lot

of the work starting to move around the

city instead of just being in one

concentrated area. So, thank you guys.

You're welcome. Nothing further.

>> Thank you very much, Councilman Jones.

Any questions?

>> Yes. Thank you, Vice President Green.

Um,

one of my questions, um, you can go back

to slide 28,

and you touched on it a little bit,

>> [snorts]

>> um, far as, uh, the amount

of the increase the increase ask of

400,000 versus the 225,000.

Yeah, I I'm gonna ask my question first.

Uh the question was um

I was a little uh uh concerned when we

when we first um had Wallace in

Montgomery because their ass was kind of

small in the beginning and now um it's

it's going up and up. Um, I I know these

designs and these things cost a little

uh money, but the out of the 200 out of

the $400,000 acts, this $2,000 estimated

ask on Division Street, is that a part

of the the 400?

>> Correct.

>> It is.

>> Yes.

>> And then you said you didn't want to um

you didn't want to delay on um Division

Street. Um so are do you have any grants

in at this time?

>> We have we have grant applications in

that we're still waiting to hear back

on. And so what is the different I mean

why wouldn't you uh wait and see if we

can you know get grant money versus

using our own.

>> So one of the benefits of using

consultants is that when [clears throat]

we get a grant there's usually a local

match and we can use the consultant

design fees consultant inspection fees

towards that match. So I I see no

downside to having it ready to go as we

get the grant put it out to

construction.

>> Okay. Um and the other thing I asked um

There's a lot of speed bumps that popped

up in the city. [laughter]

>> Is there any better material?

That's one part of the question.

>> Yes, we are currently re-evaluating all

locations.

>> Please. Uh those things are they're

they're tough. I mean, I know we need

them. However, my next question is what

is the normal process for a speed bump

to be placed? So, for a a speed bump to

be placed in it, um [clears throat]

it depends on where it is located

throughout the city. If it's on a city

road, we have ultimate jurisdiction to

do as we please. However, if it's liquid

fuels eligible, we must follow PennDOT's

guidelines or we can be

um lose funding from that that road and

possibly adjacent roads. So the way

PNDOT handles traffic um calling devices

is first you do a traffic study to see

if it's warranted. If it is warranted,

uh we have to then install it per their

standards.

>> And so some of the areas that I'll point

out, Division Street,

Third Street,

15th Street. Um so what was the what was

the process of getting those there? that

they fall into the place where you can

like you said in some instances you're

able to just make a decision and put

them out there or where

>> see how they came about.

>> Those were placed by administrative

decision which it we are now going back

to re-evaluate each one and do the

correct procedure to see if they're

warranted.

>> Okay. So they were just temporary for

the moment. Okay. All right. No further

questions.

>> Thank you very much. Councilwoman Ross.

Any questions?

>> Good evening, everyone. I have no

questions. Thank you. I have the same

ones as Councilman Jones, especially

with the uh grant, so they were

answered.

>> Thank you, President Hill. Any

questions?

>> Thank you. Um my questions around uh the

diversity compliment and some the

vacancy uh were asked and answered. So,

thank you for your presentation.

>> Thank you, Councilwoman Davis. Any

questions?

>> Thank you, Vice President Green. I

didn't have any questions initially. I

was just going to ask about signs,

street signs, if that's your department.

>> So, that would fall under a traffic

department. [clears throat] Since we

have a full complement uh in our traffic

department, we have a full-time sign

technician. Their job over the winter is

to fabricate signs all winter long and

then in the spring as the ground thaws.

Uh we can go out and install those

signs,

>> the ones that are missing. Correct.

Pretty much. Okay, great. I look forward

to seeing those. Thank you.

>> Thank you, Councilwoman Daniels. Any

questions?

>> No questions. Thank you.

>> Thank you very much. Are there any other

questions or comments?

Seeing none, thank you very much. I

appreciate the work you do and for you

being here tonight.

>> Thank you.

>> Next, we are going to move to the Bureau

of Fleet Management.

Oh, all right.

>> Yes, we are going to move to parks and

wreck then.

[clears throat]

to this. This is

>> Parks and Rick.

Good evening. When you're ready, if

you'd like to introduce yourself, give

your presentation, then we will open it

up for questions.

>> Good evening. Kevin Sanders, parks and

recreation manager.

>> Uh Todd Herbster, operations manager for

the parks maintenance department.

Go to go to the department overview

[clears throat]

listed here is uh list of our events.

Um, first one is the bunny blast, uh,

summer Richmond program, movie nights,

um, Halloween bash, the brown

brownstone, winter wonderland, uh, tree

lighting event, uh, overseeing

recreational spaces such as the pools,

the island, um, arcade, managing all

pavilion reservations for the community,

managing park renovation grants,

park maintenance, maintaining all parks

and playgrounds to include mowing,

trimming, mulching, cleaning restrooms,

repairing playground equipment,

tree work, graffiti removal,

power washing, pavilions, general

cleaning of parks, trash pickup, snow

removal.

One of our [clears throat] significant

budget changes, pretty much our main one

is uh in seasonal employment.

Um,

We're asking for $600,000.

Uh that'll encompass a litany of changes

uh that we believe we're going to need

to make now as opposed to in 2027

with a new pool pending at Penn National

Pool and Playground, also known as uh

pool two. Uh some of those changes would

be additional staff at front desk,

security, uh additional lifeguards, pool

managers, as well as um site leaders and

recreation assistance in our summer

program.

Park maintenance, uh 100,000 has been

reallocated from contracted services to

miscellaneous supplies.

Uh the IRA, USCF, grants for 2 million

to go towards tree removal.

That's that's ongoing. Uh lower the need

amounted for contracted services. It was

originally allocated for tree removals

and pruning,

miscellaneous supplies money was used

for replacing and repairing tools. Uh

lawnmowers that are over 10 years old,

chainsaws and other hand tools. Overtime

budget increases increased um

to 110 from 86,000

cleanup for unforeseen storms weekend

events due to increases in park rentals

April through November

department diversity uh park

maintenance.

I'm going to kind of let you guys see

through that.

If you have any questions, I can ask and

answer those, but I'm having a little

bit of hard time seeing some of it.

Sorry, my eyes are a little different.

Does anyone have any questions about the

diversity page?

>> No, thank you. That was my question.

>> Uh, we did send over a handout um to

give a more indepth

um overview. Uh I I'll generalize it.

Seventh and Rner

on visual and Gorgus will probably look

the most completed. Uh while Wilson the

site itself is uh coming together. Um

Wilson's a park that has to work its way

from um the far end of the park all the

way out to the road. Um, so if you if

you view it from Rumson Drive as you're

coming down with the tea in the road, it

may appear that it's not as completed.

Um, but a lot of things have to they

have to work their way out of that site

because there's some big things that are

going to go in. So, they have to sort of

work their way out slow the whole site

is set up now and they're working their

way out. They have started to do the um

the pavilion uh footers. Once those are

um those are down, that'll open up a lot

of things. Uh the there's a wall that

has to go there. Um there's a lot of

things in a very tight spot at Wilson.

So Wilson will come together over the

next um month and a half. Um Gorgus is

probably at about 85% completed. There

are some things that are going to take

place during um December. The lighting

is not done. The poles are coming in as

we speak. Um and some other things have

to be finished as far as the pavilion

goes and the surfacing. 7th and Rner

um is not quite the same as Wilson.

We're waiting for um the the concession

stand and restrooms will be coming in

and then a couple other amenities have

to be fully installed. The lighting is

um about 95% done at Seventh and Radner.

The stadium lights are installed, which

is a good thing. Um a lot of things are

done at 7th and Radner, but everything

is not finalized as far as the power

goes. Um Reservoir Park is on a

different timeline

um project. The splash pad has started.

Um

we are seeing pretty good progress based

on the fact we just started that

reservoir. Um

let me go to next slide.

Other projects uh 54 trees removed or

pruned the last four months. No storm

related work. Tree pruning done by

contractors underway. 70 bare rooted

trees planted in 2025.

ARPA funding 500,000 originally slated

to be used to supplement city seniors

and low income tree program.

Um we spent $187,929

that includes 113 removed, 31 pruning,

eight stump grindings.

Contract was awarded in September of uh

2025.

So that it's pretty good for the last

four months. um pen national pool and

playground uh as uh m director Baker

discussed the geological study is near

completion. Um [clears throat] we've

taken some proactive approaches uh we

have uh staff and myself we have

researched um some current pool

projects. Uh we had a recent um field

trip to a big city where they had um two

brand new pools done in the last three

years as well as a renovated pool in the

last four years. Um that was the last

over uh five pool uh trips. We also

visited Chambersburg which has a very

large outdoor pool. Um

staff went to Manhattan Township and

visited. They have two swimming pools

there. uh staff went to Middletown who

has an a dated pool. Uh we got a lot of

insight there as well and we also went

to reading uh pool this summer. So the

goal of those was to get a little bit

more prepared for uh the pen national

pool and playground. Some of that uh

some of those changes are part of that

$600,000

um request. You can go to the next

slide.

That's our budget to date in parks and

wreck. There's some nice pictures.

[laughter]

Yeah, I'm not going to try to read this.

You have a screen.

This is a park maintenance uh budget as

well.

We can go to the next slide.

This breaks down our um our event. Um

pretty much the two numbers there are um

pretty much allotted spots and what and

who showed up. Um some of those events

have waiting room only. uh they do have

to turn people away. Um there are people

that have shown up at least an hour

prior to some of those um those classes.

Unfortunately, there is a um there's

just a people limit. So, a lot of them

have been very successful um and those

classes have been brought back.

Next slide.

So this breaks down some of the goals.

60% attendance to consider during the

events is successful. 70% of successful

events. Um the completion of park

renovations for Wilson Park 7th and

Radner and Gorgus and Reservoir Park.

Goals for parks and recreation um 70%

tenants successful. Some things are a

little bit redundant. um

opening reopening uh the City Island

Arcade. Um we're looking into um the

Riverview Pavilion, a renovation there.

Um potentially uh renovating that

pavilion over at City Island. Park

Maintenance has uh two employees

certified for crane operations.

Currently, uh neither department has um

any vacancies.

Uh couple other highlights. Uh this year

we were offered um we we earned an award

from uh PRPS and um spotlighted uh three

different agencies. We're one of them.

Employee employment achievements that we

have here. Uh we would like to recognize

uh that Cedric Bowling, one of the park

rangers, has successfully uh completed

all the tasks and all the um

requirements to be considered for uh the

police academy. That's going to start

here in J I believe it's January 8th for

the city of Harrisburg. I believe that

that's a um extreme achievement

considering when Mr. Bowling started in

2023. I do remember him telling myself

that he said quote one of my goals was

this will not be my final stop in the

city. So I'd like to recognize that uh

I'm we were really proud of Mr. Sedrick

Bowling that I'll be joining the

Harrisburg Police Department.

I don't know if that's exciting to

people but to me that's exciting because

that shows growth and uh kind of skip

down here for one second. The park

rangers also presented a career day at

um couple of schools and went over these

types of things and really we really

emphasized as a team uh growth. Some of

our employees that are working in parks

and recck started in our summer program

and have graduated to some some

management positions and senior

positions and just trying to show the

the young people that you can do it. Um

I think that's really important. Uh Emma

Simpson, she became certified parks and

uh rec professional this year. Um that's

a pretty high recognition in the um

parks and wreck world. Um we had a

roller skating event at the carousel. We

averaged about 65 skaters per night. Um

that included uh children as well as

adults. I do think we we did really well

with the children in that aspect, but we

did have consistent adults that came. Um

Reservoir Park summer signups. Um this

year we uh peaked at 401 at Reservoir

Park. Um that was an increase of 93

signups um across five parks but

Reservoir that was 93. Um we

strengthening our seasonal hiring,

retention, evaluation and child focus

program and quality department goals

realigned continued service at park,

pool and playgrounds. the Halloween bash

at the Brownstone, we stayed within our

expectations of still getting 2,000

attendees. We um increased park rentals.

Um the park rangers also um kind of

jumped in this year and we supported a

major concert um with minimal notice on

some changes in some of the logistics

the day of. Uh they did a great job that

day. Um we were out there for

um a lot of hours without minimal with

minimal breaks. It was only uh three of

us. Um adult programming increased. Uh

we added five additional programs in uh

2025.

Some some additional questions. Um

proven our parks I mean goals, excuse

me. Uh increase in tenants for programs.

Um our temporary employment line.

Um kind of whatever those positions. Um,

currently our seasonal wages are below

is 15, the high is 18. That's also why

that number of $600,000 is where it's

at. All these things play out uh for us.

Uh we're also restoring two playground

program sites that were not available

last year. And we do anticipate uh if

we're at 401 at Reservoir Park with the

new splash pad and some pavilion

upgrades and there's some other upgrades

at Reservoir that we anticipate being

ready um a little bit later in the year.

Um we do believe we're going to exceed

500 kids sign up at Reservoir Park.

The improved site conditions at three

locations. Um, we're anticipate I am

anticipating as well as staff that we're

going to exceed a thousand children

signing up for our summer programs this

year. Our current number this past year

was 713.

Uh, what that number shows is we also

did not have 7th of RER, Gorgus or

Wilson. Um, we eliminated a smaller park

um in that mix. So in 2024 we did have

that. We had 834. Each year since COVID,

we have um added

attendance each single year. We're

adding attendance at different rates. We

do anticipate that we're going to go

over a thousand children this coming

year. Want to reiterate that. Um one

thing before questions that's not quite

on there, the splash pad um does

encompass some staff of that $600,000 as

well. questions.

>> Thank you very much. I'm going to start

with our parks and recreations chair

with Councilwoman Ross. Any questions?

>> Um yes, good evening. Thank you, um,

Vice President Green, and good evening,

Mr. Saunders. Thank you for your

presentation. I did I had a like two

comments and questions. Um, thank you

for my question. I was going to ask

again about the increase of the

$600,000.

I know you and I have uh already talked

and um about it. So, you explained most

of it to me, but then you just

reexplained on why you were going why

you needed the extra funds and I um was

just going to ask you again why so you

could explain to everybody else, but you

did. So, thank you. Um I was also happy

to see that um you all finally got

together and did the skating uh ring. I

know President Hill and I have or had

spoken to the administration about that

about two years ago and it was something

we really wanted to see in the city. Um

but at the time we were told it couldn't

be done. So I'm so glad that you all

found um the resources and um a way to

uh bring that to the city. And I hope to

see that um get even bigger with maybe

um a rental um like skating uh because

the the sidewalk was kind of rough

inside with the cracks in there. A few

people you know was kind of hard to

skate. So um you know I hope we can you

know upgrade that as we continue with

that um program. Um I did want you to uh

explain a little bit more. I know you

talked to me, but for everyone else, um,

cuz a few residents had some concerns

about the grants that we had for the

playgrounds and knowing that there was

an extension on them before until the

end of January and seeing the conditions

of the playgrounds right now, not

feeling like they would be completed by

then and wondering are we going to lose

those grants. Um, so could you speak on

that a little bit more to let us know

the current condition of those grants?

Sure. Um, so I'm going to start with

Reservoir Park. Reservoir Park, we do

have I say 95% of the equipment is here.

It most of us at the park shop in the

front of the park shop. It has to be

installed. We have a pretty significant

delivery coming tomorrow at 8:30, which

is our um rest room for Reservoir Park.

So with the good is by us having these

things here, we're not looking for them

and waiting for those items. um getting

that site prepared um is the daunting

task. So reservoir out of the the four

locations is going to be the most

challenging uh for us. Uh whereas Wilson

uh we're pretty confident that we're

going to get into the 90 to 95

percentile by that date. Um Gorgus and

7th and Radner, we do feel that we

should be almost completed 7th of RER by

the second week of January. Um and

specifically Gorgius is just the

surfacing is going to be the challenge,

but we do expect it to be done. Um the

amenities are starting to appear.

They're out there now. Um while I sent

over an update, the the staff is working

every single day. Um we went over some

of the schedules. We do have a bi-weekly

meeting. We do communicate with um our

main contractor as well as the subs

quite frequently um with these projects

and some of them are most of them are

going from sight to sight. So there is

some consistency there like seven the

people who work at 7th of RER and Gorgus

and Wilson are all the same people and

sometimes they have to bring on more

people um to hopefully complete those

projects timely.

>> Okay, thank you. That was all the

questions and comments I had. Thank you

very much.

>> Thank you very much. President Hill, do

you have any questions?

>> I do. Thank you. Uh thank you for

sharing uh the diversity compliment

information. That was one of my

questions. Um I still have additional

questions regarding both the parks and

uh the performance metrics that were

shared. So I'll start with the parks.

I'm not sure of the handout that you are

referring to in the slide. I don't know

if I missed it or

>> No, we didn't receive the handout. The

last update I have, um, Councilwoman

Ross shared with me following our first

town hall meeting in conjunction with

the Harrisburg School District School

Board. um that's where we receive

questions and so she forwarded the

updates as of September 22nd, 2025.

So are you is there somewhere we can

reference this handout or can you share

it with us?

>> Yeah, I can share it with you.

>> Okay. Um my next questions are in

reference to the performance performance

metrics that were shared on slide nine.

Um, I'm happy to see and learn that

there was more participation it seems

like than last year for sure. Now, some

of these activities that have little

participation, the kayaking on Italian

Lake,

um,

there was another one. Well, I don't

know. Can you explain the gauge? I think

you said 70%

was rated successful or 60%. Can you

explain that? And will like the activity

of kayaking on Italian Lake be

evaluated? How are the programs

continuing to be evaluated? And what

deems a 60%

success rate?

>> Hi.

>> Can you move it closer to you? Thank

you. Um, so we have about 70% of those

programs up there we would consider

successful. We did have some where

attendance didn't hit that 70% mark.

When attendance doesn't hit that 60%

mark that we look for, we do go back to

all the reviews. Those get sent out to

kind of everyone who attends and we ask

what they think of the program. And

depending on what those reviews say,

sometimes we go back and we rethink our

marketing for the program. Could we send

this out to more schools? could we open

it to a different demographic that might

be interested to see? Um, or sometimes

when attendance is so low, we do not

bring a program back. Um, so sometimes

you see us try new programs twice to see

if we can change our marketing and

sometimes you see that we don't consider

it successful enough to try again. So,

but we do attempt new things all the

time.

>> I know. Now, what's your name and what

is your role for the benefit of the

public? My name is Emma Simpson and I'm

your community events coordinator.

>> Okay. Thank you, Emma, for introducing

yourself. Um, okay.

I again I'm I'm happy that participation

was better. I mean, I think

last year the max or the participation

levels might have been like 10 people.

So, I'm glad that we've increased to

capacity. So, that's good and thank you

for your response. Um I think oh I

wanted to congratulate

um parks and wreck on the professional

day spotlight. Uh so PRPS is the parks

uh Pennsylvania recreation and park

society. I work with them in my

full-time job. So that's awesome. Um and

congratulations to Mr. Bowling on his

movement um through the city with the

Harrisburg Police. So that's exciting. I

don't think I have any other questions.

Thank you.

Thank you very much, Councilwoman Davis.

Any questions?

>> Thank you, Vice President Green. Thank

you for your presentation. My questions

were answered, so I don't have any at

this time. Thank you.

>> Thank you, Councilwoman Daniels. Any

questions?

>> Oops. No questions. Thank you.

>> Thank you very much, Councilman Jones.

Any questions?

>> Yes. Um, how you doing, everyone? Uh,

I'm just I know Councilwoman Ross

addressed the 600,000. Um, but I I'm I'm

not really clear on it. Um, I know last

year we went over a little bit and you

asked for more money. Um, I think it was

450,000

or 400,000 somewhere in that area. But I

see that you guys didn't really use all

of that in this cycle. So for the

600,000, you said a few things. Um the

pool uh pit national which I didn't know

was southside. [laughter]

I was like man where is pit national? Do

we got a new pool coming? I didn't

realize where it was but um so around

that you you you you mentioned that and

um increasing staff anticipation of more

uh summer jobs. Is this where some of

that funding will be

>> utilized? And then

um staying in that lane with with with

the 600. Uh

yeah, you guys um

you anticipated how many workers did you

say you have like 500 total?

>> So last year um we we made a lot of

changes. So we went down to about 81 uh

staffers. But by doing that that means

we also didn't have parks open. So we

didn't have Wilson Park open. We didn't

have 7th of RER and Gorgus. Um these are

what's how do I explain? So Seventh of

Radner and Gorgus are each going to have

large pavilions. Uh this never occurred

prior. Wilson's going to have a large

pavilion. So when we offer the

programming on their base numbers from

when they left when the project when

they were not there because of the

projects their numbers were exceeding

already. So we anticipate at Brad and

Gorgus that we're potentially going to

get close to 150 to 175 in signups. We

ended about 119 when uh they went

offline. Wilson Park was trending

towards 100 kids signed up. uh Wilson

Park the last year it was open that was

the most kids we've ever had at Wilson

Park on a day-to-day basis. So I'm

basing that off of that for those

program those locations.

>> So that's and then Reservoir is the one

that's the most um intense because we

had 401 sign up this past year. We're

adding a splash pad there. Once it's all

active, we I truly anticipate us to have

500 people sign up at Reservoir. We

we've had to turn people away two years

ago. So, it's it's not it's sort of

going the opposite way. We're getting

more and more

>> kids and more and more children want our

program than they did prior.

>> Yeah. And I'm just just wanted um

clarity on it and and you know, for uh

the public's understanding as well, not

that we're just dumping money and just,

you know, I just wanted to get a little

bit more clarity. So, with the rates of

$15 and $18 with some new ones coming in

and the returning ones, that's still the

uh range that you guys are going to be

looking at for staff and and with those

anticipated increased numbers of people

signing up, you would have to add more

staff. Is there a ratio like in

classroom? Is there a ratio that you

have to have uh you know, as far as uh

employees out there versus the amount of

children that you expect?

>> No, we don't. So we don't do the daycare

numbers. We we're a little more

cautionary. We won't want to get into

that. That's different set of rules.

We're not going there. So we're looking

at if we're at 81, we're looking at 110

employees. Um but on a consistent basis,

the goal is to roll it out this year so

we don't do all these rollouts in 2027.

So we're prepared. We have a year to go

and do it with more numbers. We may not

get to 110, but we want to have the

ability to get to 110 because we do

believe we're going to need to be very

close to that number. We're also trying

to staff the splash pad. Um, these are

large investments in these parks. So,

it's 131. So, and then if we get a brand

new pool, you're talking $8 million. So,

and that's just in a span of

>> That was my next question.

>> That's a span of over a very short

period of time. Let's go back in 2018.

Um in 2021 uh 21 we also put in you know

$4 million worth of projects. So you

know forth and doin cloverly rural

terrace pen and safer um and Norman

Holly. So we still have to protect what

we have out there and we don't want to

lose sight of that.

>> Good. Um so you you you brought it up

and I was going there next with the pool

pin national. new pool everyone. Oh, Pin

National. Uh, so we know the the Earth

studies being done. Do you anticipate

that we will be able to utilize that

pool? And if not, maybe that may be

another question for

>> study.

>> Okay. So, well, they they how long ago

how long Let me ask you how long have

this study been going on? So, there's no

updates on the ground or nothing.

There's

>> no waiting for the final report. Uh,

Director Baker did state, "We do

anticipate that we'll get something here

maybe next Thursday." Um, that's a

document that says you can go or a

document that says you can't go. Um, the

key is there in our eyes is if we can

go, we have somewhat of a plan in place.

Um, we're obviously going to have to

come back to you for some approval. Um,

there's there's a fast track, there's a

slower track. Um, the fast track is we'd

have to come back to you.

>> Okay. for approval. We have uh

preliminary plans. Um we did do some

research um and doing their research uh

through Baltimore City. Some things have

come up that they recognized and stated

to us in our field study around the

geological uh they're trying to do

another pool and one of their um their

main guy told me and Miss Ross, hey, you

know, we have to slow down on one of our

another projects because we have to go

back and do that. and we said we're

doing that right now. Okay.

>> So, once we get that done,

>> that that takes us to the next plan. Um,

you know, and then some execution. I I

want to be cautionary here. Not saying

that the pool's going to open the first

day in 2027. It does take time to

construct, but we do see like

that could be done by 2027.

>> There's a vision. There's a vision. I

want to say that.

>> Gotcha. So only reason why I'm asking

because you said part of the 600,000 had

to do with that that site and we already

have money allocated over there. We

spent 2 million already. We still have 6

billion remaining. [clears throat]

So is this anticipated cost in the

600,000 for staff or just and I know

it's better to be over you know um

have more money than less. So the goal

staff now is is to get staff

trained and prepared even if it's at

Jackson Lick this year, treating it for

next year for the following year. So

we're prepared. Um that includes adding

security. That means adding changes uh

when people enter the pool, changing

expectations, rising the bar, not just

status quo, rising the bar across the

board.

>> Gotcha. And that's, you know, if you're

going to invest in $8 million,

you got to protect what you invest. You

can't just throw a pool out there. 8

million. Gotcha.

>> And keep it the way we're going. No, we

we got to we have to have a maintenance

plan. We have to have preparation. We

have to have people trained. We have to

have certifications.

>> Thank you for the clarity.

>> Those are things that have to happen.

>> Thank you for the clarity. Two more

questions. Other question is with these

park designs, maybe I missed something

and it's just me asking. It's nothing

nefarious or anything. I'm just asking

this question. Um, was the public was

there any public participation in the

designs and needs for I mean once what

what our parts look like? I know I've

been approached about workout equipment

in some of the parks, handball courts.

So, I just want to know what that

process was like.

>> Absolutely.

Uh, uh, absolutely. There's fitness

equipment in that'll be in Wilson Park.

There's fitness equipment right now at

Corgus. It's in it's in there. But was

this public participation or these

designs? Okay, that's that was the

question. So, uh the next one is on

slide eight, Cedric, if you can go to

that and you might have to blow it up so

Kevin can see it, [laughter]

but uh I'm just curious again underneath

of um office supplies

personnel safety. What can you explain

what that is?

referring to maintenance budget or

recreation.

>> Yes, slide eight. It's up there now

underneath of

>> park maintenance. Personnel safety. What

What does that entail?

>> Personnel safety would be the gloves.

>> You get the

>> Sorry about that. That would be uh

safety with the gloves. Um winter gear

obviously. Uh Right now it's really

cold. Uh glasses, safety glasses, um

different aspects of the safety issue

for the guys, keeping them safe out in

the parks. I mean, you've been in the

parks, you've seen some of the things

that are out there, and that's

absolutely

>> I just was curious. I didn't know what

it was. I thought you guys needed

security.

>> I didn't I didn't know what was going on

here. [laughter]

>> But

>> our officers do good.

>> Now, you got to leave that fox alone up

there. I like seeing it at times. Uh

that's all I have. So, thank you guys

for the clarification. Um, great job.

>> Thank you, Councilman Rodriguez.

>> Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you all

for uh joining us this evening and uh

offering this presentation. Um, I have

no real questions, just more of a

statement. I'd love to see more exposure

to aquatics in the city. Um, even

utilizing, you know, the beautiful river

we have. Um, figuring out a way and if I

could offer, actually, we partner my

daytime job, we partner with fishing

boat. We do a lot of kayaking, a lot of

fishing, a lot of outdoorishes type of

things. Um, so even collaborating

perhaps with Councilwoman Ross and

seeing how we could bring more of that

to our youth, bringing more engagement

that can perhaps even uh benefit our

tourism, attracting more into the city,

but I definitely see more um I didn't

see enough highlighting with the family

fishing day. Um I was actually there

with my team that day and I was actually

on the catfish station frying them up,

cutting them up. So that was just

amazing to see families, you know, oh my

god, I caught one running over to the

station. It says a lot. It brings a lot

and offers a lot of exposure that's not

traditionally in the city. Um, and just

so you know, there's some invasive

species. There's about a 6 and 1/2t

American eel at Italian Lake. So yeah, I

actually held it and put it back because

we weren't going to uh cut that up. But

um needless to say, the kids enjoy it. I

saw um I've seen a lot of different

schools come in on that day. Uh family

fishing days. This would be the third

consecutive year we partnered with fish

and boat and um uh department of parks

and wreck and was actually there to see

it and to see everyone from our elder to

seniors catching fish crying because it

was the first fish they caught um all

the way down to the youth like hey I got

a bluegill you know it's just it's

amazing and it and it offers a lot more

than just our traditional basketball

football you know to really get you know

our babies out there enjoying wildlife

because Harrisburg has a lot to offer in

that aspect so I just love to see more

of that highlighted but thank you for

all you're doing and I love to see more

of that aquatic wildlife type of

exposure in the city. So, thank you.

>> Thank you very much. Um, I have I guess

a couple of questions kind of around the

the increase uh to $600,000 because if

I'm correct, we we underspent that quite

a bit this year. So, now to increase it

by about

380,000 more than we spent last year uh

is a little concerning for me. Um, first

you said add security. Where are we

adding security to?

>> The swimming pool.

>> So, how many security guards are we

looking at?

>> Four.

>> Per day, like per shift, per four total.

>> Probably. There's some wiggle per day,

but three to four per day.

>> All right. Front desk. Where is that?

>> Uh, personally takes the money.

>> No, but like it's just at the pool.

Front desk. It just says front desk.

That's just pool. Sorry.

>> Okay. Um, obviously the lifeguard, site

leaders. um recreation assistance.

That's just like the summer personnel

that work at the playgrounds.

>> All right.

>> Um so how many more staff are we looking

at adding?

>> Uh we would get between 110 to about

118. That can fluctuate for different

reasons. Um but somewhere in that

ballpark.

>> So we had this year we did 81, but we

also didn't have Wilson Park. We also

didn't have 7 and Gorgus. And when we

had those parks, what was our staffing

aotment?

>> We were uh a little bit over 100.

It would fluctuate, but within the about

100.

>> So you're looking to increase that by

about our max number from previously by

about 10.

>> Mhm.

>> Okay.

>> And you're looking to do it this year to

get everybody trained and ready for

2027. So essentially during 2026, we'll

be overstaffed at all of our parks and

pools and everywhere.

>> I don't want to say overstaffed, but

tight. Like we're going to have more

people there, so there's less room for

um disruptions. We anticipate 7th and

Radner that we're going to need to have

three site leaders there. We're going to

spread out uh the footprint. um with the

the significant changes to what the

field can offer as well as what's there.

Now we're having a built-in bathroom

concession stand already on site. Um you

have um you're going to have a press

box. You're going to have dugouts.

You're going to have the ability to do

more activities than we did previously.

Gorgus is going to have a full scale

playground and fitness equipment. Wilson

gonna have triple the amount of

offerings that it ever had. So Wilson

was always sort of moderately attended.

If we're thinking we're going to get 60

kids there a day, we can actually handle

that. We really could barely handle

3540. So we do need to have staff there.

We need to have staff that's trained in

being able to make sure these kids are

having a good time. That was one of the

point of emphasis this past year and

that is why the numbers were a little

bit tighter. we were a little bit more

on top on I don't want to say all the

way over on top of people but we went

really hard in our screening process for

site leaders um site leaders had to do

um two interviews sometimes they had to

do an assignment um we didn't bring on

everybody if people couldn't do the

assignment um they didn't get brought on

to be a site leader or some didn't

didn't take some of the positions and

things of that nature so some things did

occur um we were able to tighten up at

reservoir. Some of us filled in a little

bit, but I don't anticipate all those

things to happen. We're going to be more

spread out. We're going to have to cover

more um ground this year, and we trying

to make changes at the pool requires

someone to be up there to make those

changes as well. We made a lot of

changes in the parks. This year was

putting emphasis in the parks, but next

year, this coming year is going to be

the pull harder from um full-time staff

in some capacities that are a little

different than what we did this year.

>> Okay. So, it seems like this is just the

staff that's needed for now, not for

2027. And in 2027, we're going to look

to increase the staff again. Because if

you're saying that this is essentially

the staffing that's needed now, um it's

not that it's overstaffed, but it's what

we need to maintain, then we would

realistically look to have an increase

in 2027 when we're opening another pool

and adding more features to the city.

>> So the goal is to have the increases now

so we don't have to do it in 2027. If we

have a year where we've actually

navigated with the security changes, now

we can make changes to things that we

may or may not have seen. But if we wait

till 2027 with a brand new pool, we're

going to be chasing problems in in a

greater uh scenario. And we don't want

to have the park rangers just sitting at

the pool being in security. We had to do

that this year after we had over 100 um

youngsters getting into a fight. We we

we just cannot continue down that path

with the park rangers sitting at the

pool for four to six hours a day. It's

just it's not productive.

>> All right. Um, I know this isn't in

their job description, but have we

looked at the CSA department um to to

help provide some of that coverage at

these pools uh during the summer since I

know they spend a lot of time like

during school let out and things like

that and like at the you know the

market, you know, interacting with the

the different residents. Um perhaps

during the summer they could help with

some of the pool activities um since,

you know, the kids would have already

seen them around the schools and things

like that. um as well as residents

seeing them throughout the the city. And

that's a great place to catch catch kids

at and you know kind of talk to them and

have those conversations and build those

relationships. So um if the the CSA

department um

that might be something we could reach

out to them uh if if that's part of

2026.

I I mean we we can do the we can slow

roll it out um but at some point we're

going to need full-time security at the

pool in our pool research of going to

multiple locations that are similar to

us. They either had security or they had

police. Baltimore had police at uh their

big one of their pools. Um they had no

amenities. The pool's the amenity and

they had a police at the front. They had

police in the back. Um, I'm not saying

that's where we need to go, but we

cannot have fights where we actually had

a ranger there and it's turns into a

hundred children fighting. That's it's

not

>> I completely understand. I'm not trying

to take anything away from what you're

saying. I'm trying to add to it. Saying

along with this, maybe we can reach out

to our CSA department um if

>> you know that's an option. Uh so that we

can provide added resources. Not so much

that I'm saying take security away. I'm

saying potentially add to it in

different ways to kind of build those

community relations since that was one

of the main purposes of creating a CSA

division was you know really boosting

those community relations and a lot of

the issues that um we seem to be

addressing uh throughout the city in

general is pertaining to young people

you know throughout the city right

downtown um different places. So maybe

having those relationship building

opportunities in fun places like the

pool might be um a great resource. I'm

also not trying to say

>> as far as like oh we don't need it now.

I'm simply saying that in 2027 can we

look to have an increase. I'm just

looking forward saying that if we need

this now then we're going to need more

in 2027 and just thinking about

long-term sustainability of the city of

Harrisburg. Uh because over 60% of our

budget is personnel. You know, if you

look at our budget in general, 60%.

Every year there are increases, right?

Whether it's 2%, 3%, 1%, 20%. Right?

They seem to vary sometimes. But if

every year there's an increase and we

know for a fact that our tax revenue

base is going down, uh we just have to

make sure we're being cognizant of it. I

definitely think investing in our youth

is one of the best things that we can

do. Uh but it's just looking at the

overarching everything and making sure

we're not planning to underspend, right?

planning money that we know we're

probably not going to spend um just for

the sake of having it there just in case

because once money is out there and

allocated and not sitting in the fund

balance, it gets spent somewhere, right?

That's why we have budget reallocation

suddenly. Oh, well, we have extra money

here. We can move it there. So, just

trying to make sure we're being

cognizant of our funds. Um not trying to

take away from from what you guys are

trying to do. Uh you all have done a

wonderful job of really increasing the

opportunities and the amenities

available to the residents of

Harrisburg, not just our youth, but our

adults and our seniors as well. Uh and I

appreciate that. I'd love to see more

activities specifically focused towards

our teens. I know that can be a a harder

audience to capture sometimes. Uh but I

think that's where we're kind of losing

our kids at um between like 12 and 15

16. A lot of our kids are looking for

activities.

too old for little league, too young for

high school, too old for the playground,

too young for the skating ring. So, it's

kind of like where where can we kind of

capture some of those activities for

them so they have places to go um and

aren't just in large groups ending up,

you know, fighting just because there's

nothing to do. We're all bored. So, I

think those are kind of the comments I

have. Um I don't know if there are any

other comments or questions.

>> Just a couple questions. Yes, I had one.

I'm sorry,

>> Councilwoman Ros.

>> Did I cut somebody off?

>> No, you can go first and then

Councilwoman Davis will uh follow.

>> Okay, I'll go after her. Thank you.

>> No, you can go first and she will

follow.

>> Okay. Thank you. Um I just had um one

comment or suggestion. Um I didn't know

the pin national the name was changed

until tonight. Um, and at first it was

okay, but then as I kept hearing it, I

was like, well, instead of changing it

to that name, which doesn't really link

as much to Harrisburg, I know

Pennsylvania, but is there any way that

we could maybe um go back to the drawing

board with that and include the

community and say, you know, um, here

what would what do you think the who

should be called? Winner takes home

$200. I don't know, just something fun

with it because I think we could come up

with a more creative, fun, buyin name

than Pen National. So, I was wondering,

would we be able to go back to the

drawing board and include the community

in any way with the new name?

>> So, I'll just say it's been Pen National

since I was born. Um, I'm 35 and no one

ever calls it Pen National, but it's a

sign down there that that says it's Pen

National um pool. I don't know if they

bought the naming rights at some point,

but it's been like that my entire life.

Um I'm sorry. Could you could you speak?

I think I overalled.

>> I said they probably paid for the sign.

>> So I think that's something we can

definitely look into, but um it's always

been that. We just kind of always call

it Cloverly or the Southside pool, but

it's always been

>> Oh, I'm sorry. I showed my Harrisburg

for colors because all I know is out the

south. Sorry.

>> Unofficially, it has four names. um in

our paperwork. Uh that's the one that

the security firm would always refer to.

Um pool two hall manner pool south. So

um we you know a lot of it's aka aka

because depending on who's stating it

>> [snorts]

>> um we're we're open to a a change and I

do believe that pen national came around

money more than anything for naming

rights for lack of better phraseology.

>> Sounds like it's time to ask them for

some money again. I

>> have a question with with this there's

being um I know that there's going to be

reconstruction out there with the

housing authority. I think it was like

what 500 million 500,000 hours something

some crazy number that they're going to

redo Southside living arrangements with

the pool being out there. Do do they

chip in with that or no? We we're just

solely responsible.

>> I believe that's all us. I believe they

got a redesign grant, but I don't think

they got the funding to do the work yet.

>> Yeah. I I just don't know the answer to

that. Both projects are fairly

complicated for local government and

local housing authority. It's hard to

imagine we don't work together on some

way, right? It's just until we're really

there.

>> I mean, again, the kind of money they're

going to spend out there, those houses

been there what, since World War I,

>> but but they have been talking about

that for 15 or 20 years, right? So, I

don't know where I've lost track of

where they are in the process. This a

thought I would ask.

>> If I'm correct, the redesign grant they

had was focused on

the side the other side of 13th Street

housing first because um according to

the demographics that actually had the

larger um crime rate and then they also

included some of the redesign as far as

like the Hall manor section. Um and then

they're waiting for the funding to to

see what all can be done.

Still question. Councilwoman Davis.

>> Thank you, Vice President Green. Just

one uh question in regards to with all

the activities, the increase in staff

and everything.