Low-Stress Equity & Options Strategy | Ft. Kirubakaran Rajendran | MastersInOne | EP - 72

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>> Trading strategy is the only thing that

you need to know. Everybody will become

a profitable trader. No risk-free

trading in trading, but there is

stress-free trading. Our no trading

mentality.

We always aim for higher risk, but that

is not the right approach. The

professional traders will always aim for

lower drawdowns. So, that is become

sensation among the world like, "Okay,

so anybody can become a profitable

trader if they have a positive edge."

>> How much capital you started your

trading journey?

>> I started with 5,000 rupees of my

scholarship money. Now, I'm currently

trading with a capital of around

>> Namaste dostho.

My Vijay Thakkar.

I'm already Masters in one game podcast

man.

I mean I can do podcast guest and Kiro

G. Kiro G. Chennai

or yeah, it's option seller. Yeah. But I

can podcast

and I can

I will have some 30% return generate cut

the head. Or basically you don't know

it's going to do part me divide cut the

head. I will go both the head passive

income or that I had. Or do so I will do

both the head will have active income.

So, do active income can do returns. Or

generally will option selling

cut the head. Or passive income can do

returns. Yeah. Or I can do investment go

investment cut the head. I will do

investment I will do investment cut the

head. I will do concept and I will do

concept and I will do head. I will do

some option seller will have head. I

will do cut the head government bond cut

the head. I will do nifty bees cut the

head. I will do bees cut the head or I

will do pledge cut the head. I will I

will do be I will do cut the head

investment go

additional

target

podcast

mindset

return generate

but yeah

focus

logical

May

strategy

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income

strategy

every 30% generate

target

without

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capital

investment

return

capital

remaining target

without

wasting

podcast

request

podcast

data

95%

podcast

because

English

language matter

matter

trader

investor

strategy matter

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English

English

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investor

>> Thank you so much, Vijay. Thank you so

your podcast. Now, we know virtually for

a long time, but this is the first time

now we are meeting in person. And I

always hear good about you. And now,

because in our industry, we know, right?

I told you when we were coming in cab,

there are very few genuine people who

share knowledge with respect to our

industry. And you are one among them who

has been continuously sharing whatever

things that you have learned. And also,

you are really genuine in what you are

doing. So, you should keep doing what

you are doing.

Uh, I saw your tweet one day when you

bought your house and you take your

parents to that house.

>> Yes.

>> So, that time I feel, I don't know why,

I feel proud it. You know, then and that

time I commented also for you.

>> Right. Right.

>> Because I can understand that feeling

that what it it gives to your parents,

okay?

>> Right.

>> on the Twitter and then I understood

that you are not normal trader.

>> [laughter]

>> You are very systematic trader and you

work with rules.

>> Right.

>> And then I saw your podcast with Saket.

>> Okay.

>> Okay. So, that time I decided that I

will do podcast with Kiro Bhai because,

see,

our podcast name is Masters in One.

>> Okay.

>> Okay. So, what I feel that in stock

market, there are 100 types of ways to

make money.

>> Okay.

>> But you have to master in one and you

have to deep dive in that method and

then you can make money in that method.

It's It's totally okay. You do option

selling, you do

intraday, you do you do scalping, or you

do swing trading, or you do investment,

anything. But you have to master in one.

>> Correct.

>> So that is why we started this podcast

>> Okay.

>> My My method is only one method which I

follow multi-year time frame breakout.

But there are many other trader and

investor, they have their own method. So

I tried to, you know, bring them here.

And I tried to show their method and

their mindset to other people also who

are trading in stock market. So this was

the logic of starting this master's in

one podcast. So that is the one thing.

Now,

but

not

>> Exactly. I do not know Hindi. So but

I'll try to keep it very simple

>> Right.

>> so that anyone who listens to this

podcast, they can replicate what we are

trying to showcase.

>> Correct.

It's based on rule and logic.

So I will tell you everyone okay up is

called language today build some some

dough. Okay. So yes,

first I want to understand your journey.

>> Okay.

>> Right. Because before that tweet

Correct. Or

>> Okay.

Sure. Sure. See that the it is good that

you have brought that topic of whatever

the no tweet that you have seen me

>> Yes.

>> where me buying the house. Because I

started trading in the year 2008.

>> Okay.

>> And I always wanted to buy a own flat of

me

completely through the income from

trading. So, it took me a long years of

journey where just like every single

trader will goes through ups and downs.

Okay, I bought that flat just last year.

So, it took me almost 16 years to get to

that phase. So, that was the first time

when you know, in one year I was almost

making 1.5 crores of income completely

from trading. So, I thought, "Okay,

should I need to know pull out some

portion of that capital and buy

something or should I keep compounding

it?" When you keep compounding it, it is

just a number in your account. The

moment you take your profits out and do

something that gives you the emotional

value, which no one can replicate.

Correct. So, as you rightly said, the

moment when my parents saw the house

which I bought

that is like

you cannot equivalent equate it to any

kind of income that you make, right?

That is a pure emotional moment. So, I

am very glad that I've taken the

decision of buying the home from my

trading income. So, the overall journey,

even though I started in the year 2008,

I became a systematic trader only from

the year 2014

after I read a book called How I Made $2

million by Nicholas Darvas.

>> Oh. So, since 2014 you are doing

automated system

>> Correct. So, 2014 is when I started

getting into algo trading. So, you know,

back then there was no broker providing

API. None of them were giving these kind

of automated tools. It was totally you

know, new and very very minimal people

were doing algo trading back then. So,

there is one company called Symphony

FinTech. So, they were the one who were

providing algo trading solutions back

then.

And when you have to do algo trading

during those period, the kind of money

that you have to spend just to set up an

automated system itself was so high.

Like I ended up spending 1.5 lakhs just

to set it up.

>> Like that time.

>> That time because you need to buy

AmiBroker. They charge you around 30,000

per year and again, every month you need

to buy data. Now you are getting data

free from broker. Earlier, they will be

charging 2,500 for that. And then, I do

not know coding. So, I have to rely on a

freelancer where I have to give them the

rules. He will write an AmiBroker code.

So, I don't know, back then AmiBroker

was very famous. So, AmiBroker has its

own programming language called

AmiBroker Formula Language, AFL. So,

he'll be writing the AFL codes. And

then, by the time we automated it, yeah,

I ended up spending almost 2 lakhs. And

I remember saving that AFL name as

life-changing indicator {dot} no

Kirubakaran, whatever my name. Because I

have added all the indicators into it, I

thought that is the holy grail. But, no,

it eventually did not work. But, that

was a learning phase.

>> Mhm.

>> So, that is how it started. And then,

eventually, I know, I started learning

more about systematic trading, being

more about process-oriented. What you

rightly said, like masters in one, which

means that you take one specific path

and become master in it and keep

following

diligently. Eventually, that is going to

work for you. So, over the years, you

would have gone through multiple guest.

Everyone would have discussed you

multiple setups. But, just because

someone said interesting, you did not

stop what you were doing and jumped into

the other one.

>> Correct.

>> What you were doing, you were continuing

to do till date. Even now, when I came,

you were showing your setup, right?

Because that is your hardcore logic

setup. Which you believe in it. So, that

is what exactly every single trader has

to follow. You pick the one which is

suitable for you and stick to it longer

period of time. So, that is exactly what

I also did.

>> So,

like since 2008, you are in market, and

since 2014, you started,

you know, trying automated trading,

systematic way, process way. So, at the

time of start, what the difficult things

you are getting it? Like,

you told this thing only that you

started

depending on the that the coder

then and till when when you started your

proper systematic trading what year?

>> So what it will happen almost again some

additional four years because in 2014

you're getting into algo trading you're

new over the period you will make a lot

of mistakes with respect to systematic

trading. So again it took me additional

four years in order to know correct all

my mistakes and then only I start

totally jumped into a proper systematic

way because I'll tell you one example.

That was the last slide I kept but I

think that is the first thing I should

not talk to you about because it is all

about

when I started trading or when anyone

starts trading

if

trading strategy is the only thing that

you need to know everybody will become a

profitable trader. Correct. You have so

many YouTube videos you have so many

books but still why out of 100 people 90

people are still losing money why 10

people are still making money.

In order to figure that out it took me

so many years.

Fortunately I read one article which is

not related to trading it is related to

neuro science.

The moment I read that article

everything came into picture I'll tell

you what it is.

>> Yes.

>> You are very wearing the watch right?

>> Right.

>> You remove the watch.

>> Okay.

>> Okay. And you remove it from your left

to wear it in your right.

>> Okay.

>> Okay if someone else is watching this

video who's wearing it in their right

just you know change it and watch it in

the other side okay.

Until that point I always thought

what in order to make money in markets

is all about strategy strategy strategy

but the moment I start you know

completely finish that article it is

beyond strategy something else is there

what do call it that is neuroplasticity?

So, what neuroplasticity is

until now when I asked you which side

watch you're wearing, you're wearing on

left side. Now you started wearing it on

right side and it is just 20 seconds.

Now you started feeling uncomfortable

like you are not really comfortable with

the right side. You will not even know

know the weight of the watch. You don't

even remember that you're wearing the

watch. Now you could feel this because

for long many years you are so used to

one habit.

>> Right.

>> When you are so used to one habit, brain

forms a neuroplasticity. There is a

certain habit.

>> So, this was my body part like

>> Exactly. So, when someone is doing

repeatedly the same thing for a long

period of time there will be a

neuroplasticity that will be formed in

your you know brain. When you try to

break that it will give you

uncomfortable signal just like how it is

giving you now.

It that is why it is very hard to break

a good habit, very hard to break a bad

habit because the neuroplasticity is

formed.

In trading

when you see any person who is coming

into trading, he will learn one

strategy.

Now he'll apply it for some day. After

three or four back-to-back losses, he

will think this is stopped working.

He'll move to some other strategy.

So, he's not giving enough room for the

strategy to work. So, when he jumps from

one strategy to the other strategy, the

neuroplasticity is not formed in your

brain. So, that is why in trading many

people keep jumping from one strategy to

the other strategy because they tend to

think that strategy is the core logic.

No, that is a secret that everyone has

it.

But the moment in you know anyways we

are going to explain one strategy in

this particular video, right?

End of this video whether this strategy

or whatever the strategy people follow

if they pick one strategy like they have

to decide this is the strategy I'm

picking for next 100 days I'm going to

follow the rules of the strategy.

It does not matter whether the it is

giving you profit or loss on a trade to

trade you know trade to trade basis.

Just if it gives buy, I buy. If it gives

sell, I have to sell. I have to just

focus on the process.

So 100 days when you do it,

automatically the brain will form the

neuroplasticity.

101st day

you take the trade as per the rule.

But now you try to break your own rule.

Try to cut the stop loss. Try to put the

target. Get modify your stop loss and

take a break. Go for a tea.

Before even you complete your tea, your

brain will start giving you the same

uncomfortable signal.

It will tell you you have you know

formed a neuroplasticity. Now you have

breaking your habit. Go back and get

back to your old habit. So what it will

say is you will be completely

uncomfortable because you have changed

the rules, modified the stop loss,

modified the target. So now your mind is

totally shifted from outcome to process.

You're not bothered about whether it is

going to give you a profit or not. But

you are more bothered because the brain

has started giving you uncomfortable

signal since you have broken the habit.

So now you will go and you know follow

the rules. You will change the stop loss

back to its original point. That is what

is segregating the profitable trader

from the you know losing traders. Once

you give enough time for the strategy to

form the neuroplasticity, no matter

what, you can't break it. Like you have

seen right so many examples. The moment

the stock stocks give you 2x or 3x, even

though you're tempted to you know close

it, the moment you have been doing it

for a longer period of time, you will

not bothered about that one trade

outcome. Over the period you know this

is going to work in your favor. So you

will start following it.

>> Correct.

>> So that is what is the most important

part like in the most important you know

lesson that every single trader has to

you know take it up.

>> So the lesson is that you have to follow

the process and at least you have to

follow the process for the longer period

of time. Right. So then you will

understand that how these things works

or not. Right. So, this

this thing also I have understood Kiru

because I am trading since 2000 you can

say 2013 2014. Right. I started my

career in 2009, but I started trading in

2013 2014. So, previously also I used to

do this thing only. Sometime I do

intraday, sometime I do BTST STBT,

sometime I do swing trading, sometime I

become investor.

>> Right.

>> So, actually you know what? I was doing

many things. I was very busy with all

this thing, but I was not making any

profit.

>> Correct.

>> Because I don't know actually what I

want to do.

>> Correct.

>> And I don't know what I have to follow.

So, then after certain year I understood

about multi-year breakout, then I

started practicing about that thing, and

then I realized that this one simple

thing is giving beautiful return, then

why should I follow other things?

>> Exactly.

>> And then after that day I started

practicing only this method only, but I

was not knowing that what I am doing

actually that neuroplasticity wala

thing. So,

So, Kiru bhai, I know you because you I

know that thing that you do mostly

option trading, option selling. And I

don't know that you do investment also

or not, but I know this thing

>> Right.

>> And you are very process driven.

Okay, I have tasted the tested this

strategy. This is giving this much

result. Recently you posted one tweet

about mutual fund something you are

talking about the schemes. Right. So,

Aap aaj hame ek aisa aapka method batao

which you are following also.

Uska rule kya hai? Logic kya hai?

>> Sure.

>> And why you are following this strategy?

And if you have the back test result

then also you can show that to us.

>> Done. Done. See, I'll I'll start with

explaining the core of any strategy that

you follow. There should be certain core

principles behind it. So, when you trade

with equity

>> Mhm.

>> as long as you know you were saying

right as long as the market is in bull

run you will make.

>> Correct.

>> But if the market is in bear run we

can't make returns because all the

stocks will obviously go down.

>> Mhm.

>> So, what I have combined in this

strategy is two methods. One is a turtle

trading method and the other one is dual

momentum. I have clubbed it together to

create this strategy.

Turtle method is created by Richard

Dennis in 1974.

>> Okay.

>> So, during that period Richard Dennis

was the first person who popularized

systematic trading among the crowd.

>> Okay.

>> So, there was this beautiful incident.

What happened was

Richard Dennis was so confident that

anyone anyone can become a successful

trader if they follow a simple

rule-based approach.

So, he tried this experiment by hiring

some 14 different traders

who do not have any background

experience in Wall Street, any

experience in trading. He taught them

the basics of trading and gave them a

rules to all the 14 people. So, when all

the 14 people were given the same rules

they just have to follow it strictly,

right? So, that is what they did.

And by following a systematic rules all

these 14 traders eventually made close

to 175 million dollars back in 1974

itself.

So, that has become sensation among the

world like okay, so anybody can become a

profitable trader if they have a

positive edge.

So, that was there in my mind. And next

there was a book I read by Gary

Antonacci. The book name is the dual

momentum.

Where he combined gold and equity

together. Okay. So, when you trade it

together based on the market moments

like when the market is in bullish phase

it will invest in Nifty. If the market

is in bearish phase it will invest in

gold. That was his concept. So I combine

this turtle method along with the this

momentum dual momentum method to create

a strategy where you can implement this

in Nifty bees or gold bees.

Two things, either you can implement

this as a standalone strategy

or many option sellers what they do is

they buy a liquid case debt funds or you

know Nifty bees or gold bees pledge that

and trade.

When you directly buy Nifty bees it can

give you 12% on an average but the

drawdown is very high right right it can

go down 6 59 60% like in 2008 60% it

went.

>> Even in COVID also?

>> COVID it went 33%. So when your you know

asset which you have pledged if it goes

down then your position sizing will also

get affected.

>> Correct.

>> So I want to have same kind of Nifty

returns but I do not want that kind of

high drawdown. So they can also apply

this strategy.

>> [clears throat]

>> So the underlying is two things. One is

Nifty bees and the other one is gold

bees. So what I'll do is first I'll just

you know show you the chart.

>> [clears throat]

>> See this is the Nifty bees chart.

>> Correct.

>> Okay and this is the gold bees chart.

>> Correct.

>> What I have done is I have created a

ratio like this

where you divide Nifty bees by gold

bees.

>> Okay.

>> That will plot a chart like this. You

are seeing the chart right?

5 it oscillates up and down.

>> So if you see this 2008 period

>> Mhm.

>> this ratio is down.

>> Correct.

>> During 2007 the ratio is up.

So whenever this ratio is in uptrend I

will buy Nifty bees.

Whenever this ratio is in downtrend I

will buy gold bees.

>> Okay. Because you are dividing by Nifty

bees that's why.

>> bees. So whenever the ratio is higher

I'm going to buy gold I mean Nifty.

Whenever the ratio is in downtrend I'm

going to buy gold. Like in 2025, if you

see

from 2024 till 2026, I would have bought

gold, not Nifty. Okay. So, I would be

sitting in a very good profit. So, by

doing this, you will actually trying to

uh buy that market which you will move.

Exactly. So, whichever is in trending,

I'm not predicting whether it is going

to be bullish or bearish. I'm just going

to find whichever the instrument is

trending.

>> So, but how do I find this trending?

>> That is the next question.

>> Right. I was coming to that question.

>> Because it is simple chart. Anybody will

know what you say uptrend, I can say

downtrend.

>> Uh because if I follow normal Dow Dow

theory, then also

>> Correct. So, my rules is simple. So,

what I've done is you create this ratio,

and then you apply the turtle trading

system into the ratio. The turtle

trading system says

check what is the last 20 days highest

high price, like highest price.

>> Okay.

>> And check what is the last 20 days

lowest price.

>> Okay.

>> If the last 20 days highest price is

crossed,

>> Mhm.

>> we go long.

>> Mhm.

>> If the last 20 days 20 days lowest price

is crossed on the downside, we go short.

This is the turtle trading system rule.

>> Okay.

>> Instead of applying that rule on either

Nifty Bees or Gold Bees, we are directly

applying it on the strategy itself.

>> Correct. In the ratio chart. In the

ratio chart.

>> So, this is the ratio. So, in this

ratio, when I apply the rules,

>> Okay.

>> so automatically, it is going to giving

me the signal. Like the green one is the

highest high price.

>> average.

>> Correct. And the red one is the lowest

price.

>> This is basically a 20-day simple moving

average.

>> days, not moving average. Donchian

channel.

>> Donchian channel.

>> Exactly. So, when I apply this Donchian

channel here, I can clearly see when it

is breaking out, when it is you know

breaking down.

>> So, what is the setting which we have

to, you know, do in the Donchian

channel? anything.

>> simple. 20 days 20 days. That's all. 20

days.

>> Nothing else.

>> So, when the 20 days we we are

since the ratio is on close to close

basis.

>> Yeah, like [clears throat] on the

>> We use only the last 20 days, the close

price. It's not the high or low. It is

just the close price.

>> Okay.

>> So, now it is very clear. Whenever the

signal gives me a buy, I will go and buy

the gold bees. I mean, sorry, Nifty

bees.

>> Nifty bees.

>> And whenever the signal gives me a sell,

I will exit the Nifty bees and buy gold

bees.

>> Okay.

>> So, simple. I have to keep oscillating

between Nifty and gold.

>> And this you will follow on a week time

frame on a daily

>> Daily time frame. Daily time

>> The ratio chart is on a daily time

frame.

>> frame. So, you just divide the ratio

like as I said, Nifty bees by gold bees.

Track what is the last 20 days you know,

highest high price or 20 days lowest low

price.

>> Okay.

>> Whenever the signal comes, buy Nifty

bees.

>> Mhm.

>> Whenever sell signal comes, exit the

Nifty bees, buy gold bees.

>> Okay.

>> That is the core logic behind it.

So, once I do this,

automatically this is helping me in two

things. One is Nifty and gold is having

a negative correlation.

>> Right.

>> Because the both asset classes are

different.

>> Uh.

>> So, earlier if I'm trading this only in

stocks, obviously if the market is going

down, I'll be in sitting in a negative

returns or no returns zone for a longer

period of time. But having this

uncorrelated thing, when one is giving

me a bullish signal, the other will give

me a negative signal. So, obviously

during the down period, the gold is

going to help me.

>> Okay.

>> And second most important part currently

is the charges.

See, with the with respect to this kind

of setup, the number of trades is very

very minimal. Like you know, you've been

trading for a longer period of time.

Like the you know, if we have seen in

December 2025, it is asking me to buy a

gold. Sell signal.

>> Okay.

>> And now it is asking me to buy Nifty

bees.

>> Nifty bees.

>> So, almost for seven or eight months,

only one trade. So, charges is very

minimal.

>> Right.

>> And also,

when you calculate the STT

for stocks versus ETF,

>> Mhm.

>> your charges on STT is significantly

lower. I've given this example, you

consider this.

>> Okay.

>> We have no buying some stocks. I don't

even remember what is the stocks cross.

>> lesser than half.

>> It is much much much lesser. If you see

the charges, it is 60 rupees. Here it is

just 20 rupees.

>> Mhm.

>> So, 1/3 of the charges because with STT

for Gold Bees, there is no STT.

>> That is also advantage.

>> Yeah, and for Nifty Bees, the STT is

0.001%.

>> Mhm.

>> Whereas with the stocks, it is 0.1%.

>> Mhm.

>> So, huge difference where the

significantly when you're trading with

the higher capital, your STT goes down

drastically because you're trading with

the Nifty Bees and Gold Bees.

>> Okay.

>> So, charges itself has gone down

drastically. Now, coming to the drawdown

part.

So, Nifty Bees, you know, in 2008, if

I'm doing buy and hold Nifty Bees during

the global financial crisis, it has gone

down 60%.

>> Correct.

>> But this rotational strategy has given

me only 24.95, almost 25% only drawdown.

>> Right. That is also positive.

>> Yeah, and all the you know, the one our

as per our you know, trading mentality,

>> Mhm.

>> we always aim for higher risk. But that

is not the right approach. The

professional traders will always aim for

lower drawdowns.

Because there is a statistical study

done by University of France where

consider you have made 1 lakh today.

>> Mhm.

>> Okay. Tomorrow, you have lost 1 lakh.

>> Mhm.

>> You are in a no profit, no loss.

Correct? You are in zero. Like you never

lost your capital. Today, you made 1

lakh. Tomorrow, you lost 1 lakh.

>> Correct.

>> But when they studied the brain pattern

of the same trader when he is making

profit versus when he is losing money,

the pleasure of making money versus the

pain of losing money. The pain of losing

money is two times higher than the

pleasure of making money. So, even

though I made one lakh today and lost

one lakh tomorrow, I would be extremely

sad even though I did not lose from my

capital because that is the emotional

drain that you will have. So, one day

studied it among a lot of traders, they

understood that

the guy who is performing really well on

the markets for the longer time are the

best risk management people. So, they

will control the risk to a greater

extent. They will always prioritize

reducing the risk. So, that the pain of

losing money will be very, very less.

So, that over the period you will not

feel you know, very stressful or very,

very emotional about the market.

>> And that gives you confidence also

because there is one [snorts] loss which

I always talk in my video, that is

emotional loss. Right. So, if you will

loss continuously that emotion part, so,

your confidence will come down. Exactly.

And if you are getting a very good

opportunity also now, then also you will

think that no, I don't want to trade.

Maybe this will also hit my stop loss.

Exactly.

Because now, they always say, right?

There is no risk-free trading in

trading. But, there is stress-free

trading. You have to pick how do you

define your rules accordingly so that it

doesn't give you any stress.

>> No, that is actually a very good thing.

Almost half drawdown we are avoiding.

>> Exactly. Like, the pain point is gone

down and if you see in the major crisis

like 2008 and 2009, this rotational

strategy has significantly outperformed

both Nifty bees and gold bees.

>> So, this is also outperformance. Now,

you are not you are not going down uh

>> on the drawdown part, but on the returns

part also you are you know, really doing

well. Even on the COVID time also, the

rotational system has given you good

returns.

>> Oh.

>> So, even during this period, the gold

you know, rally period,

>> Right.

>> Nifty did not give you good returns.

But, combining both

>> Yeah.

>> with this rotational part, you would be

betting on the trend.

>> Yeah, so recently I was talking to one

investor

I think one week back only. He is from

also Chennai. So I was like that sir, I

have not made that much money last

financial year. I am feeling not good

not feeling good this last financial

year for. So he was like that Vijay, why

you have not invested in gold and

silver? So then also I understood are

you I was

I was having that option also. I did not

invest that is my mistake.

People are made money there also. So

ultimate aim is to make money.

It's not like that you buy gold or

silver or you make money via stock.

Right. So that time I understood that

this one simple thing I did not

understand.

>> Because you know as you rightly said,

you see people are buying gold. Why

people are buying gold? Is it because

they understood the economic concept

behind it? No, because it is trending.

It is moving up. They could literally

see Nifty is going down but gold is

moving up. Let me now reshuffle the

investment

and also people who are having a larger

capital, pension funds and all these

funds, whenever there is an uncertainty

in the market, specifically when Trump

like people you know when there were

there is negative news that comes out,

obviously people wanted to move a safer

you know asset class. So gold acts like

that safer asset.

>> And and there is one one interesting

thing is this in this data. Normally we

have not seen the crash like 2008 and

2009 till now in the Indian market.

If you see the chart on a monthly time

frame of the Nifty, so you will

understand the most painful year was

2008 and 2011.

There were no return in that

for five years.

After that we have not seen that type of

bear market in our history only.

So always we had came down by 30, 40,

15% and in two years again we break the

high and we Uh, a rally. So this is that

important thing is that in that bad year

also you are you're going down only 16%.

>> Correct. Correct. Correct. And also know

like in 2008 and 9, you consider the

both the years together, it is almost

made 75% return.

>> Yes.

>> So, even if you take the overall CAGR.

>> Okay.

>> If I started 1 lakh at the you know year

of 2008, I would be currently sitting

with a portfolio value of 20 lakhs.

>> Oh.

>> And with the CAGR of 18%.

>> Uh, where we can make it 12% or 11% in

Nifty.

>> Correct. And with you know 11% or 12% in

Nifty comes with 60% drawdown. Here you

are making 18% CAGR with just 25%

drawdown. And you have a very good

profit factor and more know you are

easily able to beat both Nifty bees as

well as gold bees buy and sell buy and

hold.

>> this is very good return. I think 18%

you are making via this strategy only.

And then you can do option selling also

and then

>> Exactly. That is the best part because

as an option seller, see my returns

expectation is this know this there is

this rule of 72.

>> Okay.

>> So, rule of 72 states that 72 divide by

the expected rate of returns will tell

you how many years it is going to take

for you to double your capital.

>> Okay, right.

>> If I'm making only 10%.

>> Uh.

>> Then as per rule of 72, it is going to

take me 7.2 years just to double my

capital.

>> Correct.

>> My returns expectation is to make 30%.

>> And already almost 20%

>> Yeah, 18% comes from 4 year you will

make your double. Exactly. So, every

every 2.4 years, I can double my capital

if I make just 30%.

>> Okay.

>> 18% comes passively through the

strategy. Rest 12% I have to make from

option selling. You have eight expiry

per month.

>> Only 12% you have done.

>> Yeah. So, monthly only 12%.

>> are making 7 8% monthly.

>> You because here my expectation is set.

30% I make, I double my capital 2.5

years. As I said earlier, I'm not

chasing the returns. I am want lower

volatility, lower drawdown. So passively

the pledged equities, the gold bees and

nifty bees, if you buy and pledge it,

90% margin you're going to get, only 10%

haircut. And it is going to give you

18%. And rest 12% if I make per year and

my returns expectation is met, right?

>> Okay.

>> So it comes with when you know when you

manage it with nifty bees or gold bees,

if you compare

the overall CAGR is very minimal if you

start the peak of 2018. And gold bees

also the drawdown is significantly

higher.

>> Mhm.

>> But instead of putting it 50% 50% by you

know making it like this rotational

strategy, that is hitting your expected

rate of returns with a lower volatility

and it suits your

like most people

end of the day everybody wants to make

returns.

>> Right.

>> It doesn't matter if I sit every day

from 9:00 to 3:00 and end of the year I

make 30% versus I still do the same you

know once six months or once or three

months of kind of a trade returns. And

if I'm still making you know hitting

that returns part, then it doesn't

matter, right?

>> Correct.

>> I'll compare that with this you know

I'll show you this chart. So this is the

year wise chart.

>> Mhm.

>> So this is a rotational strategy year

wise returns.

>> This is which platform?

>> This is I back tested it using AI.

>> Okay.

>> So that has given me this report where

all I have to do is I just have to

download this data like I download this

data here.

>> So you you use AI also in your trading.

>> Yeah, I use you know the

>> So nowadays people are saying that AI

will take your job. You had you had you

are doing job with AI.

>> Because AI it is for a guy like me who

doesn't know coding. I always say there

are good traders, there are good coders,

but there are very few good traders who

know also coding. But for person like me

who have the market knowledge, but do

not have any coding knowledge, if I have

a idea, how do I test it? I do not know

any coding. So that was a barrier 2

years ago, 3 years ago. Now, that

barrier is totally removed.

>> So, how have you used AI in your

trading?

>> So, many things. Say, for an example,

even with the respect to this Nifty Bees

thing. So, what I did is I just

downloaded the data. Okay, overall the

you know, daily data I've downloaded it.

>> And and from where we have to download

the data?

>> download from the TradingView. If you go

here,

>> Okay.

>> I just download the chart data

and download it. That's all. The data

gets downloaded.

>> So, this will give us what?

>> So, this will give me the historical

price data from see here, if you see

like you can select the period.

>> 2018.

>> You can select 2008 also. Whatever the

period that you mention.

>> is the EOD closing price of the Nifty

Bees.

>> Nifty Bees.

>> Right.

>> Similarly, you can download the same

price for Gold

>> Gold Bees.

>> So, I download both the data.

>> Okay.

>> And also, I'll download the ratio data.

Like you have the ratio here, right?

>> Oh, yes.

>> So, ratio I'll download it here.

>> And this feature is in It is in

TradingView. I don't I didn't I did not

know also.

>> Huh.

>> [laughter]

>> So, I downloaded three sets of data.

Nifty Bees, Gold Bees, the ratio. Okay?

>> Right.

>> Now, I can go to Claude and I can

specify like see, I've attached the

files.

You go through it and I I'll show you

what I've now chatted with it. Let me go

up.

>> So, your Claude is your assistant.

>> Completely, completely. I don't know

multiple things based on that.

>> [snorts]

>> Because you know, when you just give the

clear prompts, it would automatically

you know, calculate what is the rules

that you have specified and accordingly

it is going to give you a structured

returns.

>> Okay.

>> So, this is what I said. So, I have

uploaded the data and I told see, with

respect to Nifty Bees and Gold Bees,

>> So, we uploaded only how many files?

>> So, I have uploaded the files here. Like

you know, if you scroll up, you will

see.

Yeah, here. Gold Bees and Nifty Bees

here.

>> Okay. attached to the gold bees and

nifty bees. I did not even give the

ratio. I just asked it to know, create

the ratio by yourself. So, it will

divide the values of nifty bees by gold

bees based on the whatever the actual

data we have given and accordingly it

would calculate. So, that is how this is

calculated the overall returns. We have

seen that 20 lakhs the final portfolio

and overall what is the overall rotation

strategy CAGR? What is the signal? When

did it come? Overall equity benchmark,

the drawdown.

Everything it will create and then it

has given you this HTML file.

So, this is where you know that

AS developed. So, it would automatically

analyze like this. So, it will check the

files and it would check necessary you

know, it would write the Python code on

its own and then it would automatically

you know, back test it for yourself. It

will not even give you code. It will run

the code itself and then it will

generate the output file automatically.

So, that is what it did. It

automatically you know, did all the

calculations and everything and

accordingly it would generate this HTML

file which shows that okay, out of 19

years 15 years it is profitable.

Year on year this is the overall

strategy returns of the rotation

strategy.

So, every single time you start with 1

lakh and you ended up with 20 lakhs just

by compounding your returns every year.

If you track the last 4 years like if

you compare it with you know, nifty and

if you compare it with you know, overall

out performance. So, even if you put 50%

in nifty bees and 50% in gold bees and

continuously hold it also you will not

be able to beat it.

So, it has given you you know, a

significant returns like these black

bars are nothing but the strategies

returns.

And these blue bars are the 50-50 buy

and hold. So, consistently it is able to

beat the overall returns you know, year

on year basis and as long as you run it

you know, the compounding will work in

your favor.

So, that is the best part. So, with

respect to this strategy, you don't need

any fan fancy things or anything like

all you have to do is find the ratio,

apply the ratio, and check out whenever

it gives you buy or sell signal.

>> Okay.

>> It is much easier to track the trend

based on the ratio rather than applying

it on the individual basis.

>> Right. And this is logical also.

>> Exactly. Mathematical, quantifiable. I'm

not asking you to know look for any

visual chart pattern.

>> Right.

>> It is pure mathematical.

>> I'm not tracking any news actually.

>> No news, no economic factors. Works on a

no pure core fundamental principles. And

you are able to see whichever is

trending. And obviously whichever is

trending that is going to give you the

signal here.

>> After after looking this, I think many

will stop their SIP.

>> [laughter]

>> Because normally mutual fund SIP gives

you 15 to 18% return, 20% return per

annum on a CAGR base. But if you manage

your own capital with this way,

>> Right.

>> you know, you are beating almost mutual

fund.

>> Yeah, this is for lump sum it is good.

Like SIP is totally different. SIP

>> SIP is all different thing, but for the

mutual

suppose one person is investing in

mutual fund for the long-term thing,

the lump sum amount. So, this is this is

actually you are beating mutual fund.

Yeah, right.

>> And with the lesser drawdown also.

>> Right.

>> And that that is what. So, it works the

moment you give for a longer you know

duration. The compound works in your

favor. So, if you for an example, if you

see from 2008 to 2018, the returns was

almost flat. From 2018, 19, 20 onwards,

it has grown significantly up because we

started compounding, reinvesting all the

profits. So, it started growing

significantly.

So, every year like 2020, it has given

almost 46%. 21 again 26%. 23, 24%. So,

everything like consider an option

seller guy who has just bought this

based on the you know strategies. And he

pledges it and then trades. Like now

last year I could make 28% from the

strategy itself.

>> Uh

>> My expected returns is 30% yeah.

>> So it is much easier right?

>> Correct.

>> So on the long run it works beautifully

because of the core logic which we have

told. One is turtle system rules and the

other one is Gary Antonacci's you know

dual momentum rule.

>> Okay.

>> try to combine it in a different

mathematical way so that you know that

gives you a clear idea on what asset

class you should invest in.

>> Okay Kiruji, so this is very interesting

that you invest in Nifty and gold base

as per the method which you have built

the ratio chart. But then

what you trade in option for other 12%?

Obviously you have 12% to make

maybe you are making more than 12%. But

what other thing you do in options? Like

you have told me off the camera that you

do multiple thing using AI with the

option selling. But if you can share one

simple logic or one simple strategy that

also will be very helpful for everyone.

>> Yeah sure. See whatever things we have

done is for the passive income which you

do not need to spend so much of time in

order to follow the strategy which I

have shared.

>> Right.

>> For the options what we can do is first

instead of directly

>> [clears throat]

>> directly going to a stock market or algo

test and try to create a strategy out of

it.

>> Mhm.

>> First let's study the market behavior,

understand how a zero DTE movement will

work, how on expiry days market moves.

>> Okay.

>> So this screen is something which I have

built it for my internal research

purpose.

Where I can select any zero DTE days

like if I select go back this is a zero

DTE tracker.

>> Okay zero DTE means the the expiry days.

>> Yeah expiry days it shows what is the

straddle. Say for an example

>> And what is the meaning of straddles?

Because I don't know about options.

>> I'll explain. So straddle is nothing but

at the time of market opens.

>> Oh.

>> Say market opened at around 22,500.

>> Right.

>> So 22,500 call and 22,500 put both the

strikes premium you add it together that

is the straddle premium.

>> And I will sell both the both the call

and put.

>> Correct. So at 9:16 when I check at what

price it opened

>> Huh.

>> it is around 251 rupees.

>> Correct.

>> We have to ignore 9:15 because we can't

get the correct precise price.

>> Right.

>> So this is a 9:16 price. So by 9:16

you see add call option and put option

together and you are seeing the price is

approximately around 250.

>> Mhm.

>> And this red dot is where the price has

gone to the highest level.

>> This data we are checking that is

basically of 30th March 2026.

>> Correct.

>> Right.

>> Okay. And

the straddle opened at 250 and

eventually it went to high price of 314.

>> Okay.

>> And then started declining. It reached a

low price of 98 rupees.

And again it spiked up somehow but the

end point is where it opened and where

it closed.

>> Right.

>> Opened at 215 I mean 250 and closed at

around 200 some so 50 points of overall

profits you get 196. So approximately

around 50 points of profits you make.

>> Right.

>> So likewise if you keep observing every

single straddle chart on

when I click on previous it moved to

24th March 2026 the previous weekly

expiry.

So there again it opened at 230.

>> Mhm.

>> And then it closed around 69.

>> Right.

>> And the high was around just 17% only it

moved up.

>> Okay.

>> But eventually decayed.

>> Right.

>> So once you keep studying these market

behavior

>> Huh.

>> it is clearly evident that most of the

time

the straddle decays.

>> Okay.

>> So So this is the observation.

>> Yeah.

>> So the straddle decays but if I just

leave it open without any stop loss

obviously when the market trends, I

might lose money. Right. So, I have to

study

out of multiple these kind of scenarios,

how many times the straddle from the

time it is open moved up What is the

highest point it moved If it opens at

100, if it moves to 125 rupees, then 25%

is the maximum movement it has moved.

>> Uh.

>> So, likewise, if you keep observing

every single time, you will have an

answer like what is the maximum

percentage

>> percentage it went up.

>> Yeah.

>> So, for here, it if you see, it is 9%.

>> 9%.

>> So, if you keep scrolling, it it has

seen 98% also.

>> is 98%?

>> So, I cannot you know use a small

stoploss. So, there will be instances

where it moves 55%. There will be

instances where it moves only 7%. So,

there will be calm days, there will be

wild days. So, what you can create Now,

you can go to AlgoTest, or you can go to

StockMock, and try creating a strategy

based on this observation.

>> Mhm.

>> Create a short straddle at the market

opens at 9:16. Use a combined premium

stoploss. So, that when if you're

shorting at 100 rupees, both call option

and put option together, if it moves to

130, no, together, both C and P

together, if the premium moved to 130,

then I will exit both call and put.

>> So, that I don't want to take one no

risk. I'll just trade only once a day,

only on expiry day. So, this way, what

happens, most of the time when the

market did not move beyond 30%, the

straddle will be you will make Other

days, when it hits, you're losing very

little.

So, on 100 days, 70 days, it will work

in your favor. The rest of the 30 days,

it might hit the stoploss. When you're

losing the when the stoploss is hit,

you're losing a little, but other days,

that is going to make up for the overall

profits. So, this is one kind of a

simple example where you observe the

market behavior first. Like, for an

example, in this case, it did not even

spike. Like, it opened at 472,

and it closed at 444. So, almost 400

points of profit in just one day.

So, likewise, you once you observe it,

you will have a different idea.

>> And what what is the closing time of

this straddle?

>> You close at 3:20 in the evening. So,

open at 9:16, close at 3:20 one day.

>> again here you are you are protecting

the risk.

And you are allowing the profit.

>> Right. I am not trying to create option

buying strategy. I'm not trying to make

50 100% returns because my expectation

as I said is clear. Make 30%. 18% comes

passively. Remaining 12% is my

expectations. And in that case, just one

trade. So, we have eight expiries in a

month. So, even if even if this works

and gives you a 0.25% returns, that

itself is going to give you, you know,

2% returns in the end of the month. So,

your target will be hit. So, now when

you go and, you know, build model on

based of on top of this, then the

expected rate of returns can be

achieved.

>> Okay. And other than this this is just

one logic you had shared here.

Uh other than this, you invest in stocks

also?

>> Stocks I do only SIPs, but not in

stocks. I do only with respect to mutual

funds, and that too only on the index

funds. See, I after I read one article,

I stopped doing SIPs on the stocks.

>> Okay. What is that?

>> So, it is all about say it happened in

19 150 years before. Okay? Before even

the oil was found.

150 years before, people

what they used to do is

they will go for a whale hunting. So,

that is the major business. Why do

people go for a whale hunting is not for

the you know, meat of the fish.

They do this because from the whale,

they are able to extract a wax.

And using that wax, they can use it in

the industries to burn lamps, to you

know, light oils. So,

back then when kerosene oil was not

discovered, they were using the wax from

the whale to run the industries.

And everyone will go for this, you know,

whale hunting. So, people who were

having the ships who would go for the

whale hunting, the moment they capture

the whale, that's it, their complete

yearly profit is done. So, they were the

millionaires.

>> Oh, okay.

>> Back then. People who would go and hunt

the whales, they became millionaires.

People who were funding the, you know,

for the whale hunting, who were giving

the ships, they were also making

millionaires. So, one whole industry was

a millionaire industry.

>> Right.

>> After some 20 or 30 years, they

discovered oil.

The moment they discovered oil, people

stopped going for whale hunting. It is,

you know, no more uh it's no more

profitable

>> no profitable business, huh.

>> And everybody started really digging

oil, and then it's it became an industry

standard. And people who were

millionaires went bankrupt overnight

because nobody started, you know, using

the wax from the whale. Because it

doesn't make sense.

The disruption will happen like that.

So, an industry which is top most

industry, take Kodak. Kodak camera was

one of the best cameras in the world,

right? But they did not know were able

to move to the advanced one. Even there

is one guy from Kodak employee who

created the first digital camera. But

they did not accept that because Kodak

was relying on film rolls.

>> Mhm.

>> They said, "No, if we move to this

digital camera, our film roll business

will eventually lose money, so we can't

do this." But eventually what happened?

Some other company, you know, started

giving this digital camera, and

eventually eventually they went

bankrupt.

Same with Micromax. Same with Nokia. So,

the industry leader who was today might

not be the industry leader tomorrow, no

matter what.

>> Mhm.

>> So, when I do an SIP, I'm not doing for

5 years or 6 years. I'm doing it for my

next generation. I just wanted to know

because in our parents' generation, they

would have invested in land.

>> Correct.

>> In our generation, we have invested in

these kind of liquid assets. So, I want

to pass on the wealth to my kid. So, for

that I need to be really certain that

the investment value will not go down.

So, studying the industry histories has

told me that okay, whoever is a market

leader today might go bankrupt. So, I

might invest, but what if in case if the

company is not there anymore? What if

the industry is not there anymore? But

one thing that I'm really certain is

index funds will always be there.

Economy, the overall index is nothing

but it's a trend following system

because they keep the good companies,

kick out the bad companies.

>> Correct.

>> So, that is the core idea behind index

funds.

>> Okay.

>> So, when I keep doing the SIPs on the

index funds, be it Nifty Bees, be it

Gold Bees, that is I'm very

No, I'm very confident this will be

there for the next 30 years or 40 years.

Even though it is giving me a minimal

returns, but the returns will be there.

>> Right. Actually, you are not getting

minimal returns. You are you are making

good return than other fund managers

also.

>> when you make good thing for a prolonged

period of time, that compounds.

>> Mhm.

>> So, that is why I stopped doing No,

stocks SIP and started doing only index

SIP.

>> Now, one more question. This is very

personal. If you want to answer, you can

answer or you can say no also.

>> Mhm.

>> So,

uh with how much capital you started

your trading journey, trading or

investment journey?

>> See, when I started trading, it was in

2008. I started with 5,000 rupees of my

scholarship money, right? And that has

happened like before even I went to

work. And when I started working in

Infosys, my salary was 15,000.

>> Mhm.

>> And eventually, you know, once I started

learning about the markets, whatever

things that I learned or whatever the

work that I did, every single money I

have, you know, started putting into the

markets. Every single thing I have

started putting into my strategies.

>> Mhm.

>> And over the period, it started

compounding both the investing part and

the trading part also. Now, I'm

currently trading with the capital of

around the 2.5 CR.

>> Mhm.

>> Where I pledge, like I don't trade with

the cash as you said. I will pledge that

for all of our these kind of rotational

strategies.

And then using the margin, I trade. So,

I currently I trade only on zero DD. I

don't trade on other days.

>> Okay, so you don't need cash for M2M

also.

>> M2M I'll keep 10%. Okay, M2M definitely

you need it. So, whatever the overall

capital you have, 10% of that will be in

always in cash. So, that no, you don't

need to liquidate your assets. The rest

of the things will be in the mutual

funds or it will be in the gold bees or

nifty bees.

>> So, from 5,000 rupees to 2,000 2 crore 5

2.5 crore, so you have never withdraw

anything from this amount?

>> No, see I've only added more funds into

it because see over the period your

income will also grow. So, when you are

when you're making higher income from

your job, you add in more funds. So, it

is not that I turned 5,000 rupees into

2.5

>> Obviously, you have invested also.

>> I've invested more and more money which

I've now generated from my other incomes

and put into the trading. That is how it

grown. So, when you keep taking out the

cash for this and no, when you don't

allow for the capital to grow,

compounding becomes much Like for an

example, last year I took out my profits

to buy the flat. Correct? If I have run

with the same capital, definitely my

returns would have been significantly

higher. But there are certain moments

where you can't equate it, right? So,

those kind of emotional moments has to

be there.

>> What was your last year profit which you

invest in your flat?

>> So, that I took almost 1.5 CR. So, 1.5

CR is a flat. I took almost some 80 to

90 lakhs from it. Rest I kept it in

trading account. And I know rest I just

put it up on EMI and then went on.

>> That's that's very good. And now since

how long you are trading full time

trading and investing?

>> 2017 is when I quit my job. So, 2017 to

till date now I'm totally into full

time.

>> Okay, but since like 2008,

for example, you are trading. So, 2008

till 2017, almost 10 years,

you traded with your job only.

So, why I'm asking you this question

because normally people what they think,

if you do trading for 1 year and then

they going they then they stop doing job

because they think that I have learned

many things. And up to job come a full

time trader

but this is not the actually thing. I I

told many people that don't do don't you

know

don't quit your job because you are

started trading before 1 year because

you have not seen the proper cycle also.

Okay, if your job is okay obviously

nobody loves their job but if your job

is giving you bread and butter and if it

is giving you a comfortable stress-free

life

for your family then you should work

with your job and you make your strategy

like that that you can do with your job

also. And nowadays it is very easily

possible. It is not that that you cannot

make money with working also. Right. So

and in 2014 there was not so many

platform but now there are so many

platform. You just bring your logic you

try to apply here and you just do it.

And to make more money you need money

also. So you have to work for that to

become a to make good capital also.

So that is the thing and you know when

you do things like when you quit your

job and try to become a full time trader

when I did in my case what happened is

before I quit the job I was making at

that point of time I was making good

money from trading itself. Three times

of my salary was coming from my trading

income for 3 months. Then it gave you

huge confidence. The moment I quit the

job the next month I was getting 7,000

rupees and the next month I was you know

making a loss of minus 50,000 rupees.

So one then only you know the reality

has hit you hard because you will have

lot many calculations in your mind. But

the moment you were you know so used to

a fixed income every month suddenly when

you are you know exposed to a

fluctuating income trading income

you will that that will put you in

enormous pressure. So, if someone is

trying to quit their job, the first and

foremost thing that they have to do is

do not depend on trading income at least

for next 2 years.

>> Mhm.

>> Keep a buffer income. Keep some you know

side income or keep a buffer capital

that can take care of all your expenses

for 2 years.

>> Mhm.

>> Because you should not get any pressure

to pay the EMI, pay buy the groceries,

you know, pay the rent, EMIs. All those

things will put so much of pressure.

When so much of pressure is there, you

will deviate from your rules. You will

start taking the trades which you're not

supposed to take. Eventually that will,

you know, put a lot of dent. So, the

utmost criteria is have an income which

you are not depend on trading for 2

years. That will give you a smooth

sailing you know route. And then

eventually you can jump in.

>> And then only you can, you know, you can

wait to, you know,

this decay for [laughter] your trader

trader. Otherwise you will square off at

100 point or 50 point because of the

pressure.

Okay. So, Kiranvai, I like this very

much and actually I was expecting some

uh

uh what we complicated strategy from

your side, but I found that you are very

simple and very, you know, process

driven person.

>> Right.

>> So, I hope I look at the year podcast at

the whole day. Go. Now

Mira Hamisha key intention hota hai ki

main Joe trader hai ya Joe be investor

hai unko aapke samne leke aao or unka

tarika aapke sath share karo. Now

Kiranvai, in this podcast Joe apne

bataya hai that Nifty gold and

Nifty gold

ratio chart that is a takeaway for me.

Okay. If that that process is making 18

to 16% return, that is actually a very

big thing.

>> Exactly.

>> Because this is only for two different

asset class. What if in case you find

such a ratio in some other stocks, two

different stocks? If both are

uncorrelated to each other. apply the

same ratio in that and try to back test

it. What if in case that gives you 20%

or 24%? So, it is just I just opened a

path to the users. From here, people can

try multiple other things and they can

create their own different set of

systems.

>> this ratio chart, we can also understand

that now we have to be in the market or

not.

>> Mhm. Exactly.

>> And that is also the thing. So, thank

you, Kirubai. Thank you very much.

And once again, thank you, sir. Thank

you.

>> Thank you. Thank you so much, Vijay. As

I said earlier, whatever things that

you're really doing, I know I'm I'm I

can really feel that energy that you are

really a humble person and you wanted to

explain or convey many things to your

subscriber base. So, you always feel the

gratitude and I could literally see

that.

>> And and I feel that responsibility also.

That I should not take anyone's else on

that seat. Because that seat is very,

you know, responsible one.

>> Very true. Very true.

>> So, that's why my number of podcasts are

very less because I try to connect with

the real person, with the real genuine

trader or investor. So, that's it.

But, this is very good thing.

>> Right. Yeah, that is what. So, because

we are always so used to one

perspective. But, when you try to mix

you know these two things like Turtle

Traders system is one system, Dual

Momentum is one system. But, combining

it together, creating a ratio of it, and

apply the rules on the ratio is

something I find it very fascinating.

Because this uh you know this idea comes

like you know for traders most of the

idea will come when you're taking a

shower. That is your you know thinking

room. When I was taking a shower

suddenly you know I used to think,

"Okay, this is a nice idea."

>> Right.

>> But, if I have to try this maybe 5 or 10

years before, I have to rely on a coder.

Now, with the help of AI, you can

directly download the data from

TradingView, give it to AI, instantly

you get the result, right? That is what

this

>> So, one more question. I am using

generally ChatGPT.

>> Okay.

>> What do you think I should shift to

Claude or ChatGPT? Because there is one

guy who is also using good AI.

>> Okay.

>> He told me that Vijay, please shift to

Claude AI because that is much better.

So, what is your view?

>> See, there are four different AI

platforms which is for four different

purposes.

>> Mhm.

>> Perplexity

No, the Perplexity AI is specifically

for

search purposes. It replaces the Google.

Now, I I never go to Google now and

search for something. Instead, I use my

Perplexity app for research.

>> Okay.

>> Specifically for searching something.

>> Okay.

>> Next thing is ChatGPT is your buddy.

Like whatever things that you have say

suppose I'm repeatedly getting a

headache, what should I do? So, it it's

your chat buddy where whatever things

you know suddenly have certain things in

your mind, go and chat it.

>> Mhm.

>> For all trading related purposes, for

all research purposes, for all analysis

purposes, start using Claude.

Claude is the best. Whether if you

wanted to write a Pine Script, it will

write. You want to write a Python, it

will write. The number of errors that

you're going to face will be

significantly lower in Claude than any

other platform. Gemini AI, you can just

say for example you want you wanted to

watch a one-hour podcast, but I want the

summary of it in short. So, now I will

use Gemini AI or I use Perplexity

Assistant to summarize the video so that

I'll take important learnings from that.

Okay, so you segregate each and every AI

tools for specific work that will do

wonders for you.

>> Okay.

>> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

>> [music]