Harrisburg City Planning Commission - 07/02/2025

Call the Harford Planning Commission

meeting to order at approximately 6:33.

Uh commissioners um receive your

minutes, the June 4th minutes hopefully

through the internet.

Um are there any changes, deletions,

additions?

Is there a second?

Second. It's been moved and second for

the approval of amendments as they are.

All those in favor state by stating I

oppose. Abstension.

I wasn't here. One

motion car

under old business. This is a variance

application for 1951 her street is zone

industrial and commercial neighborhood.

This file by Justin Woodward with

complete signs to install a wall sign 50

square feet larger than per right 25.

Oh yeah.

Yep. Uh so the applicant is proposing to

install an internally illuminated wall

sign uh which is 50 square feet which is

larger uh than permitted by right which

is 25 square feet in the commercial

neighborhood uh zoning district uh in

which this portion of the property is

located. Uh the property in 1951 Hurst

Street was previously comprised of two

separate tracks that total 71 acres

which were consolidated in 2023 as part

of a larger land development plan

involving the removal of a diner on site

and expansion of the gas station and

convenience store currently under

construction. The property is bounded by

Hurst Street to the north, North 20th

Street to the east, Kungl Street to the

south, and the property at 1927 Hurst

Street to the west. Given that the

property is currently under

construction, there is not much

information to provide regarding the

structures on site. Although it should

be noted the primary structure of the

convenience store will be a one-story

building characterized by varied facade

treatments including brick, metal, and

stone and large window systems. The main

entrance features full view metal double

doors flanked by sidelights and topped

with transoms. Fenistration is otherwise

limited to large storefront uh windows

on either side of the main entrance and

a small installation of clay glass

windows on the side elevation facing

Hurst Street. The remainder of the site

features gas pumps on islands underneath

a large canopy occupying the eastern

half of the property. Pur Street

corridor features little of

architectural distinction and is largely

characterized by mid-century commercial

and industrial buildings or historic

institutional structures. Thus, the

property does not contribute to the

character of the streetscape or

neighborhood. Uh the planning bureau

staff recommends the request be approved

for the following reasons. The site

features conditions that justify the

requested zoning relief, including a

complicated intersection and extensive

street furniture, including utility

poles, traffic control poles, and

signage. Uh the applicant did not have

the option of constructing the

convenience store in the IND zoned

portion of the property which would have

permitted the proposed signage by right

as the site design is necessary to allow

appropriate vehicular access and

circulation. The proposed signage

represents a minor deviation from the

zoning code to allow visibility and

legibility for drivers traveling along

Hurst Street. And finally, the proposed

signage would not be out of character

for this portion of Hurst Street. Thank

you, Jeff. Could you state your name,

address, and relationship to the

project?

My name is Dennis Boyer. I'm the owner

of Signature Sign who was hired to

install the sign. I'm not the one that

applied for the variance, but u we are

in Reading, PA 926 New Holland Road in

Reading, 19607.

Thank you.

I have no questions at this time.

Commissioners, I'll start with

Yeah, I really have no questions. seems

pretty straightforward and every time we

have a sign

for us I go on record I think our sign

restrictions are too restricted anyhow

so favor

no questions commission

no questions I think this is

straightforward

commissioner Jordan no questions

with that I'll go to the public

anyone for against this project Start to

the left

middle.

There's be no objections from the

public.

Got a motion. As everyone said, this is

pretty straightforward.

No.

Second. Been moved and second for

approval of this uh project. All those

in favor state I. I opposed abstensions.

Motion carried too much. Thank you.

Didn't even let me give me all my

arguments.

You might.

Thank you. You end up arguing against

yourself.

Okay. Under new business, this is a a

varants application for 67th Street,

which is an industrial

is filed by Ben Orin and Alira

MH 360 is to install a second vol.

Okay. Uh so the application for 600

South 17th Street involves a proposal to

install a second wall sign on site which

is 96.6 ft where only one sign wall sign

is permitted by right per section

7-325.6

the zoning code. Thus, the proposal

requires zoning hearing board approval

of a variance application. Property at

600 South 17th Street is a 5.81 acre lot

featuring a one-story 80,784t

structure which was constructed in 1960.

Property is bounded by Brookwood Street

to the north, South 17th Street to the

east, railroad tracks to the south, and

the property of 600 South 15th Street to

the west. This attached structure

features elements of a vernacular

industrial architectural style.

Character defining features include the

substantial building setback from the

street, chainlink fence topped with

barbed wire encircling the property,

painted CMU block facade, large awnings

over entrances on the eastern and

southern elevations and loading bays on

the western elevation. The main entrance

on the eastern elevation features a full

view metal door topped with a simple

glass plate glass transom and flanked by

Florida ceiling plate glass windows. Is

sheltered by a large awning with

standing seam metal roof. A secondary

access on the southern elevation

features a similar full view metal door

without transoms or sidelights which is

also sheltered by a large awning with

standing seam metal roof. Administration

otherwise is limited to small play glass

windows on the eastern and southern

elevations. Structure is topped with a

flat rubber roof. Property features

maintain landscaping along the northern

and eastern frontages with natural

vegetation bordering the railroad lines

to the south and a large surface lot

providing accessory parking accessible

from both Brookwood Street and South

17th Street occupying the remainder of

the site. Although the archite although

the architectural style differs somewhat

from the residential neighborhood

directly to the north, it is similar to

the Massian design of the industrial

properties to the east and south. As

such, the subject property contributes

minimally to the architectural character

of the community.

The planning bureau staff recommends the

request be approved for the following

reasons. The proposed signage will

better identify the businesses and

appropriately direct vehicular traffic

to the on-site parking for visitors from

the south and specifically from

Interstate 83 where the majority of

deliveries, shipments, and visitors are

anticipated. Aside from the zoning

relief required for the additional sign

beyond that permitted by right in the

IND district, the proposed signage is is

otherwise in conformance with the size,

height, and illumination regulations.

Thank you. Could you state your name,

address, and relationship to the

business? Yeah. Uh Ben Orens, um owner

of Image 360, which is at um

excuse me, uh 6395

69 to 51 sweet D, Allentown Boulevard,

Harrisburg, Pennsylvania 17112. And I'm

the owner of Image 360, which is the

sign company that is um installing the

sign on behalf of the client. Okay.

Thank you. Um again, I have no

questions. This appears to be

straightforward, but Start with

Commissioner

for any concerns or questions. I agree

with you, Joe. It's pretty

straightforward. No questions.

Commissioner Re, no questions.

Commissioner Mary,

I do have one question. I just looking

at the plans. Which street would the

signage be facing? Is it along 17th

Street? Uh, or actually on the back

side?

It would be on

Well, South 17th Street is the main

street that runs along the building. So,

it would be on South 17th Street. That's

where the building face is facing.

That's the Okay, correct. Thank you. I

was just trying to get a little

orientation. I think the signage in and

of itself is fine. I didn't have any

questions on that. I just couldn't

visualize which side it was on. Thank

you,

Commissioner Jordan. No questions.

Go to the public again. Is there anyone

for against this project? My left

no one from the public against this

board against

commissioners. Could I get a motion?

Motion to approve.

Conditions. There's no conditions.

Second.

Second move second for approval. Uh with

no additions.

All those in favor state by saying I IOT

motion car.

I was told I had to bring a copy of the

deed of the building. Uh yeah, that'll

be for the zoning hearing board. Yeah.

Okay. You want to take it?

All set. Y thanks guys.

Okay. Item number item number two is

this a variance application for 1332

noise second zone residential medium

density is filed by Nathan Bner

with Bner Reynolds is to establish a

parking lot for structure commercial

use.

Yep. So the applica the application for

1332 North Second Street is a proposal

to establish a parking lot or structure

commercial use. Such uses are not

permitted by right in the RM district

per section 7-305.7 of the zoning code

and thus the proposal requires zoning

hearing board approval of a variance

application. The property at 1332 North

Second Street is a48 acre lot featuring

a three-story structure resulting from

the combination of three separate

buildings into a funeral home with a

total area of 8,428 square ft which was

constructed circa 1987 and a separate

storage garage of 220 ft which was which

was constructed 1957.

The property is bounded by Calder Street

to the north, North Second Street to the

east, Safeford Street to the south, and

the property at 124 Safford Street, and

a small grosser alley to the west. The

semi-et the semi- detached structure

features element of elements of an

indeterminate architectural style.

Character defining features include the

formstone facade and water table, the

multiple access points sheltered by

awnings around the building, including

the main entrance sheltered by a large

arched awning extending the full width

of the sidewalk, the regular

fenistration pattern, the upper floor

decks on the rear elevation and roof,

and the freestanding signs near the

parking lot and building entrances.

There are multiple entrances throughout

the building, although the main entrance

on the eastern elevation features panel

double doors and a full view door set in

simple frames which are sheltered by a

large awning with square post and arch

section extending to the curb along

Second Street. Other entrances on the

front and side elevations feature the

same types of doors and similar awnings.

Penistration on the front elevation

features two over two windows set in

simple formstone surrounds with soldier

course headers and sills wrapped in

aluminum. Penetration on the on the side

elevation is more irregular and features

two over two, one over one and plate

glass windows. The structure is

primarily topped with flat rubber roofs.

The other major feature of the site is a

sizable surface parking lot occupying

the southern half of the property which

is bordered by planting beds with trees

along the eastern half of the property

eastern frontage with second street and

a 4ft high chain link fence along the

southern frontage with Safford Street.

Although the architectural style differs

somewhat from near nearby buildings,

specifically with respect to the

formstone and awnings and the large

parking lot distinguishes the property

from others in the historic district,

the building height, massing, and

location along the lot lines does

generally reflect the built environment

of the surrounding community. As such,

the subject property minimally

contributes to the architectural

character of the neighborhood.

The planning bureau staff recommends the

request be approved with the following

conditions. Uh, the applicant should

provide a site plan of the proposed

surface parking lot, including aspects

such as line spaces and driveway aisles

with dimensions to confirm that the

parking lot will be in conformance with

applicable regulations. Site plan should

identify ways in which to bring the

property into conformance with the

applicable zoning regulations, such as

the inclusion of landscape screening and

possibly trees planted in the corners of

the lot. Uh the planning bureau

recommends the removal of one of the

second street curb cuts to remove a

vehicular access point if the applicant

does not intend on utilizing both access

points or possibly relocate a vehicular

access to Safford Street. The planning

bureau staffer recommends the request be

approved for the following reasons.

Proposed use does not require zoning

relief for any proposed development or

use but rather who will be using the

existing parking spaces and thus

represents a deminimous de deviation

from the zoning regulations which meets

the applicable criteria in the zoning

code. While the surface parking lots are

generally not advisable from a planning

perspective as they represent an

underutilization of valuable urban land

and create impacts such as storm mod

runoff and urban heat island effect. In

this instance, it is reasonable to

maximize the utility of spaces in in an

existing lot by leasing parking to local

residents. And finally, reuse of the

property to accommodate parking demand

created by residents and businesses of

the surrounding neighborhood can provide

benefits by reducing on street parking

near intersections and crosswalks and on

vacant lots. And the site can be

designed to incorporate elements such as

landscape screening that improve the

aesthetics of the property. Thank you.

Yeah. Could you gentlemen state your

name, address, and relationship to the

project? Yes. Uh, good evening. My name

is Jeff Clark. Um, an attorney at

Wixwinger in Widner. Address 2805 Old

Post Road, Sweet 200 in Harrisburg. And

I'm joined by Nathan Bner.

Nathan Bner with Rentals. I am the

director there as well. main office.

Um

I guess my only question was I guess I

think I know where this is in the second

street you're still active

still still active. So the the just as a

clarification because this was brought

up in the staff report and I I did want

to make this clarification. It is it it

is very minimally active. I think it

averages about one funeral per month.

But the ultimate purpose I think it

would be to a um it is listed for sale

and I think the purpose would ultimately

be completely multif family

um instead of a funeral home and multif

family and then the rest of it being um

at least for monthly permit parking too

the neighborhood.

Thank you.

I have no other questions at this time.

Yeah, just got a lot of catching up

here. Uh

Jeff, which Wanganger is no longer on

Second Street? Uh no, we actually moved

to off Linglestown Road um and sold the

building. And actually, although it's

been continued, there's there's further

down the agenda

I guess I should have write down these

is is the uh the the repurposing of our

of our building, but still serving

Harrisburg area, but now in Susana

Township and and I guess the funeral

the funeral homes in the process of

possibly going out of business on Second

Street or relocating. We have two other

locations here in Harrisburg.

Seems like

All right.

Okay. Well, I was gonna ask what are the

other ones in in the city? Funeral

homes. That is there's I really don't

think there is any might be Kimmel

Street.

Yeah.

Two locations.

Okay.

Okay.

I always like to patronize the city, but

yeah. I have another question. So, thank

you.

Good question.

Uh, Mr.

No questions.

Commissioner,

yeah, I do have a few questions. Um, is

the building currently for sale, Ben?

Okay.

Um, are you planning on modifying the

current parking lot? I didn't see any

hands of the parking lot itself. So I I

think um there the ordinance does have

requirements for an off street parking

lot which we would have to um create a

plan for. We didn't we haven't created a

plan I guess and and actually that was

one point of clarification I had for the

town for the staff is do we need that

plan for the zoning hearing board or is

that if we're granted the variance we

would need the plan when when applying

for the for the permit? Um, well, I

would say so long as the uh aspects of

the property like the size of the

parking spaces and stuff were in

conformance with the zoning code, that

wouldn't need to, um, be there before

the zoning hearing board. Um, if there

were going to be any deviations um, uh,

we would probably want to see it there

because those might need to be discussed

before the zoning hearing board. But, I

mean, currently the existing property is

fully paved. um it has been operating as

a parking lot of of sorts for the

business. So um you know it could

certainly be relined. Um but uh uh you

know so long as that can be done in

conformance with the zoning code I don't

think that need is an imminent need.

Okay. So I I guess in answer in further

answer to your question I think our

intent would be to be in compliance with

the zoning co code as to the

requirements for a parking lot. Uh it

does it is used as a parking lot. It

already has lines, but right, especially

if one of the if if a condition is

imposed about closing one, there's two

entrances on Second Street. I think if

that if one of them is closed, I think

it would have to be reconfigured.

And so, um, we ultimately would have to

have a a plan, but we would I think the

goal would be to have it in compliance.

And and the reason I uh noted the

recommendation on the relocation is

because I noticed one of the driveways

was chained off. So um I didn't know if

there was a long-term plan to relocate

an access point or something. Maybe you

could answer that. No, we we keep it

chained off just because

there have been times people

so we kind of chained it off but we have

funerals.

Okay. I I think that clarifies that. I

that's the line that I was thinking Jeff

about the zoning code and just the

parking requirements. And I mean

ultimately probably getting ahead of

myself. If you were to sell the building

and then that owner were to change the

building and convert to more

multifamilies, then they would have to

provide parking. Correct. For those

units, but that would not fall upon

their shoulders. Well, so uh there are

there are actually I think five units in

the in the building now. Um so it's got

a unusual configuration of funeral home,

first floor, apartments above. Um, and I

would anticipate that uh for any new

owner, they would have to be providing

parking for the residents of the

building. And currently the tenants of

the of the apartments do park in that

parking lot. And so, you know, I think

it would be assumed that any any

additional tenants would get those park

would get parking spaces to comply with

that and then the remainder would be per

monthly permitted. Yeah. I mean, I I

definitely um support the need for

additional parking in that neighborhood.

Um it can be a challenge, especially on

street cleaning days. Uh in this area,

it's not in the parking standard

parking. Correct. I saw on your case

report. So, it's abuing it. It is. It

runs down Second Street. Um and then I

think west along um Verbbeck. Okay. So

they're just outside, correct? Where

they're not competing. There's no issue

there. Okay.

That's it. I don't have any other

questions.

Commissioner Jordan. Yeah, just just one

question. So you're saying on average

now you're currently having about one

funeral a month, correct? Correct. So

when that does occur with the current

tenants that you have there or um are

you experiencing any type of I guess

logistics issue as far as parking and

running a service?

I think it's generally coordinated with

the tenants and they're sort of warned

and

uh but there are 40 spaces so I think it

uh tends to be plenty.

Um,

is there anyone in the public getting

less and less against this project?

Start with the center, right?

If not, commissioners, can I get a

motion?

Motion to approve with conditions. Is

there a second?

Moved a second for approval with the

conditions. All those in favor state by

saying I. I. I. opposed.

Thank you very much.

The next one is the item number three.

This is a variance and special exception

application for 2001.

Atlantic Street

residential medium densities followed by

RA construction and to convert the

existing single family dwelling to a two

unit multi family.

Uh yes. So, the uh proposal for 2001

Lennox Street uh represents the

conversion of the existing structure to

a two-unit multif family dwelling, which

requires only hearing board approval of

a special exception for the proposed use

and relief from the off- streetet

parking requirements per section 7-305.7

and 7-3 27.6 of the zoning code,

respectively, and a variance for relief

from the density regulations in section

7-307.3

of the zoning code. Property at 2001

Lennux Street is a 04 acre lot featuring

a 2 and 1/2 story 2400 square foot

structure which was constructed in 1920.

Property is bounded by Lennux Street to

the north. The property at 2003 Lennux

Street to the east, chalky alley to the

south, and South 20th Street to the

west. The semi- detached structure

features elements of vernacular

architectural style. Character defining

features include the painted brick

facade, the large deck fronting the

enclosed former front porch, the

two-story deck on the rear elevation

with a wide wooden fire escape, the

gabled roof, clad and standing seam

metal roof, and the detached garage with

wooden swing outdoors. The main entrance

features a wooden door fronted by a

threequarter view storm door is accessed

by a wooden porch and concrete steps.

There are secondary entrances accessible

via the rear porch and fire escape.

Penetration also includes 21 wooden

windows in a variety of pane

configurations and settings. The first

floor features divided light windows

primarily in 2 over2 and 6 over6

configurations while the upper floors

feature primarily one over one windows.

Structure is topped with a clipped

gamrell roof clad and standing seam

metal. There is a detached hip brick

garage at the rear of the property with

wooden sidehinged garage doors with a

hip roof clad and asphalt shingles. As a

semi- detached structure, the building

mirrors architectural features of its

pair to the east. Although there are

differentiations in some aspects such as

the porch and rear elevation and

generally reflects the massing of other

properties in the surrounding

neighborhood. As such, the building does

contribute to the architectural and

historic character of the streetscape

and neighborhood.

The planning bureau staff recommends the

request be approved with the following

conditions. If granted zoning approval

to move forward with the project as

proposed, the applicant shall allow the

codes bureau to perform a comprehensive

inspection to identify any outstanding

code violations and will receive

approval for all for all necessary city

permits prior to receiving their a

certificate of occupancy. And I note

that I believe the applicants have been

in coordination with the city's codes

bureau on inspection of the property.

And the applicant must remove the fence

between the driveway and Chalky Alley,

which is currently blocking the public

right ofway, and require tenants to

either park in the garage or on the

street to ensure that an ADA compliant

sidewalk is maintained along South 20th

Street. Planning Bureau Staff recommends

the request be approved for the

following reasons. The zoning relief

request for the proposed use are

warranted by the history of the property

which has operated in the past as two

units as well as the configuration of

the property in which existing features

such as the rear fire escape to the

second floor provides a building code

required secondary egress. Um the

property the project will address the

primary concern of the public regarding

such conversions specifically the impact

of on parking available to existing

residents through the provision of the

required parking in the detached garage

at the rear of the property and due to

the availability of ample on street

parking along the frontage of the

property with South 20th Street and

Lennox Street.

Thank you. Could you state your name,

address, and relationship to the

project?

My name is Sambu Alar. I'm owner of

2001.

My address is 6431,

Pennsylvania.

My name is Gerald Bradzik, general

contractor. My address is 4908 Sunset

Drive, Harrisburg.

Both of you heard the conditions. Are

you acceptable of those conditions? Yes.

So everything that conditions has

already been planned

except the removable fence which

I don't have any questions at this

moment. Um so commissioners I'll go to

you with the questions or concerns.

Yes.

Yeah.

And just to clarify, this is similar to

the property for 3100 North Third Street

where at one point it operated as two

units. The um commissioners may remember

that it had a three unit three space

garage at the rear of it. Uh but it

hadn't been um occupied as two units for

like 20ome years. So per the zoning code

uh the uh former non-conforming aspect

uh rever um was vacated and it reverted

to the underlying zoning. So just to

clarify that aspect

no questions.

No I don't think I have any questions.

It looks like the variance requirement

actually goes away because they have the

square footage uh for the specific

criteria, not for the density. Oh, okay.

Okay.

But beyond that, uh it looks like they

could potentially provide

at least two off street parking spaces

if they fix the garage or there are two

spaces right outside the garage.

Concrete But you

I thought those infringe on the right of

what public right? Yeah. So those aren't

technically spaces because they'd be

blocking the sidewalk and and I know

that there's there wasn't a sidewalk uh

at the property of the south 2008 Paxton

Street, which was a car dealership for a

long time, but when they reconstructed

it, we had them put in uh sidewalks in

the public rightway. So now there is

like a path across Chalky Alley there.

So yeah. So, I mean, if you're able to

repair that garage or even just remove

the doors, you would have two parking

spaces that could be utilized

the approval then definitely I have a

plan to

I don't have any other questions.

Commissioner Jordan, no. No further

questions.

Okay, I'll go to the public. Uh, no one

on my left, no one in the center. And to

my right.

Okay.

Microphone state your name and address.

Can you see my tenant on top floor now?

Yes. Um I'm Telicia Chisum. I live at

201 Linux Street. Um we're on floor two

is we have six um occupants in on the

second floor and um

it's It's a lot of us there, but I'm

nervous about the the construction

because the foundation isn't

doesn't look even like and it's we're

already occupying. So, it just looks

like it's it's going to disturb. I have

two disabled children and it looks like

it's going to like um a disturbance for

us and um

I The only way to get down to the front

um is

like to go out front is through the

regular way to come downstairs and you

got to go through the apartment the the

the unit that he's making downstairs. We

have to go through that to access the

front door right now. And I guess that's

what he's trying to, you know, construct

into

just the one, you know, like so both

units could access the front. But it's

it's concerning because we're there

already and the structure like it just

when you go up the stairs, it it's

already kind of leaning, which makes me

nervous for my family. Um, and I just I

did want to come and say that to you

guys because it's not just myself, but I

have children. I have a fiance. I fell

down the back stairs already. Um,

because when we moved in, I didn't know

it was Mossy. I didn't know anything

about any loss, but I fell down and

fractured my tailbone um already in the

back. and I had um city code came out um

because of that. Um

and then it's like a lot of u different

things going on in the unit and we we

already spoke on it and the landlord

about um you know like he had he he's

trying to fix things. I'm I'm not going

to say he's not. Um but I just wish they

were already fixed before we got there.

But I didn't know all this stuff was

going to take place um right at that

time, you know, when we were moving in

because we our lease was up where we

were moving from. So, I was just trying

to find somewhere for me and my four

children, you know, me and my family.

So, um we we moved in and it's a lot of

things going on in in the unit. Um like

we have electrical problems, we have um

like

pest, we have rats,

um roaches,

and

I'm

I'm here because I just I need I need to

know what's going on with our home. We

have to live in this house. We're here.

So, I I I do I I have a voice and I

wanted to use it today because I feel

like it's hard right now. We don't know

what to do.

And he and when we moved in, it's also a

uh we don't have a living room. We don't

have a dining room. We only have four

bedrooms and a kitchen.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to

let you respond.

Let me explain.

I bought this property.

Could you could you speak?

It it it has a different condition. I

improve a lot because they have a two

electrical panel is old old panel and I

changed the new panel board.

already there and some of the electrical

uh uh w the lines were not you know uh

working fine and yesterday I always

taking care as soon as they complain

about anything I went there and bring

some people to fix it immediately

because we haven't started the

construction at so uh uh whatever the

problem they have, we fixed it. Like uh

the electrical panel already we put the

new panel board over there, two panel

board and uh all the uh the paste

control because we tried to uh you know

do the treatment but it's not work. She

also did, I did, we tried and we I

contracted the pest control first pest

control company and yesterday they did

all the treatment for whole house and

they are doing again

next two weeks also they do for the uh

in and out

because whenever we rented the property

She checked and uh she she satisfied say

husband and wife is hug each other said

like very much and I didn't enforce them

to rent the property and they rented and

anyway whatever the problem they have I

always do the you know treatment and the

pest control I already contracted for

the uh the exist

I open Both the side the uh kitchen side

they have a wooden porch and other side

because we are we are trying to put a

hallway

down side to exit both the unit they can

exit to to exit and now temporarily I

allowed them to okay use whatever you

want they exit and when the construction

would begin then some uh interruption

would be there but it's not mean you

know all uh we we do construction in the

night or early in the morning but

daytime definitely we do construction

and he said he will complete by 3 weeks

thank you and and

well heard concerns with with the

structure um I don't know if there's any

pictures of the basement but somebody

has done a massive job of shing up that

property

When I I talked several times message

when I had the rental inspector out, we

took them in the basement. They were

like, "Oh, who did this?" You know, it's

it's all restructured in the basement.

No, yes, the building sagged. We can't

take the sag out of the threetory

building, but they restructured the

whole building, so there's no problem

with this. Okay. Um, as far as concerns

with the with the uh the construction

going while she's there. The way I

understood it is her lease said that

there's going to be construction as soon

as it was approved and that she would

have a hallway eventually that goes out

the front door only. I mentioned this

was supposed to be explained to her when

when her lease was written. I wasn't

there for that, but we went over that. I

said, "Make sure they know that they use

the downstairs for now when when you get

the approvals." He needed to get some

money coming in on his

that when you get the approvals, we're

going to make the stairs go straight

down and out the front door and then

she'll be only on the second and third

floor. So, that's where where we're at

with that. We're good with that. Yes, it

has pest control problems, but it's a

joint. So you can kill yours but you

can't kill your neighbors because it's a

joint house and and pest people also

said it take little time because other

house also adjoining and both side we're

going to treat because I cannot ask

other you know uh landlord to okay you

treat your house it affect my right we

can only treat our side

yes it's it's a basically what I call a

half a double

No, it's like an upstairs and

downstairs.

Yeah. Which already had the kitchens

existing with a stairway between the two

floors. Yeah. Which never made sense to

me. And and to some of the uh questions

brought up by Miss Chisum, um you know,

that's why we put in the uh as a

condition that there be a thorough

compre uh comprehensive codes bureau

inspection because there may be

electrical work that was done previously

that may not be up to current code um

issues with the sagging. It sounds like,

you know, I know that sometimes happens

in old houses, but it sounds like

there's some shoring up. But if that's

not shored up appropriately, our codes

bureau will note that and they'll give

them the appropriate uh treatments to

ensure that because they're not going to

sign off on somebody living in a home

that could potentially, you know,

collapse or something. So, uh that

thorough codes inspection is uh designed

to ensure that not only the proposed uh

unit is going to be habitable and safe,

but that the existing unit is as well.

Right. When we started this project,

first thing I did was call the codes

department and have the rental codes guy

come out and look at the property. And

he two of them came out and they thought

it was a great problem. They thought it

was great. Just needed this hallway to

to divide the two units.

It's been sort of inspected by by the

city.

That's my question was the codes you're

requiring the codes to check on it.

Right. And I believe that as I said I

believe there's been some preliminary

things but being that they didn't have

approval to create the second unit yet.

I'm sure some of the more thorough

things that you would go through when

creating that um were having to wait

until they get approval from the zoning

hearing board. Yeah. Yeah. The codes

inspector. We probably spent the the

three of us probably spent an hour hour

and a half on at the property. We went

from this from the third floor to the

basement. Every unit, every closet,

bathroom, they looked looked it over

fair, right? Yeah, they're showing us.

Yes. I'm not I'm not debating. I'm just

saying that it has been looked at. I

wouldn't have started this project

without getting codes out there just

because it's a different situation.

What was on the first floor? It's a It's

a It is a unit.

Third first floor has a kitchen, a

living room, and a a dining room, and

then a front porch. Okay. And there's no

bedrooms. No, it's it's like a one.

We're going to make a bedroom in the

plan. So, it's a single family. Yes. Who

is it? And then upstairs has a kitchen,

four bedrooms, a bathroom, a half. I

mean, one and half bathroom. Yeah. It's

a It's a whole another apartment. I

think I think it's it's always tough to

tell with these when you know there were

two units in the 90s for example again

and then somebody buys it and they live

in it by themselves and uh for 20 25

years as the case may be in this in this

particular property. So um yeah I mean

sometimes they have weird configurations

sometimes they bring in maybe like their

in-laws and they just give them a a

kitchen somewhere to to you know make

them happy and give them their own

space. So, uh, you know, that's why we

want to make sure that they're going

through the appropriate zoning approvals

to get approvals for these and also that

the codes bureau is doing their

inspections to make sure this stuff is

up to code.

And that's what we're doing. Go back to

the electrical box. He paid $74,000

to change the panels on my word because

they were Federal Pacific panels. And I

don't know if you know what Federal

Pacific mean they're junk. Insurance

companies would insurance because those

panels scare is they don't breakers

don't turn off. So, he had the panels

changed and he's been finding problems a

little bit here and there and he's been

fixing it.

Also want to note that one of the

conditions in here state by Jeff is that

um to allow you guys to allow the code

bureau to perform another comprehensive.

So you agree to

any other concerns?

So then are at this point are you

blocking that front egress? No. From

them being able to they can use it right

now. The only time they're not going to

be able to use it is when I have to

reconfigure the stairs and that'll be a

week or so. We'll have to

That's a codes if they don't have two.

There needs to be property. But that's

what we're creating is their second. I

understand. I know. It's a

they're going to be there.

But I have to tear out stairs, right?

Reconfigure them so they come out in the

hallway rather than come out in the

living room of the first floor.

It's just

Is there anyone else on this side?

Your hands up.

My name is Antoine Washington. I also

live at 2001

street and my question is when they do

the constructions

again

that's just my questions

also more dangerous when it's raining

it's not

just like

I mean he said more dangerous maybe

And I don't he's not he's not fix

but I'm still concerned about the like

how

he told us not to

check the mail in the front like so it's

like those type of things are my

question

initially initially I I proposed them to

use that as a as an emergency and do the

front one the regular but they feel not

comfortable then I allowed them to use

both side even downside is open for all

the floor and the room and I asked them

to okay use use the

other side also so I allowed them

because I until I knew the problem then

I don't but if I knew the problem that I

allow. I never stopped them to use it.

Just a quick question. He's he was

concerned about safety on the stairway.

Is there anything? They're they're

pressuret treated stairs and they're

kind of shaded by a big tree get

pressure treated. It gets slimy. I

already did the power wash everything.

We could probably put some non-skid

material on the treads. I'm going to I'm

going to paint it. I'm going to paint it

in in this weekend.

Yes. No, no, that also I I

say to the res

to also let him let your landlord know

some concerns. It seems like you're

doing everything to fix this up right

now. So if you had other concerns, I

would say, you know, talk to you. Seem

like you're acceptable things that might

be your concern.

For the future, you might want to think

about that. The only other thought I

heard

with I know you might not be able to

control it, but maybe the test control

like

Because I know office buildings and

everything else they always have some

pest guy come out whatever that I

already contacted sir I already

contacted they already started they

already they already they were out

yesterday contract one other company I

contacted but they didn't schedule so I

found another company and do it right

Yes. So, so in reference to the back

stairs,

I don't know if this a question for

um is there a possibility to

like you're saying like putting on like

the adhesive like Um, kind of like the

the grit. I would I'd rather use

non-skid paint. The adhesive glues on

paint stays longer. I mean, I I think if

he I mean, he's probably has a lot of

experience in the construction industry.

Yeah. I guess I guess my concern is not

only just for the construction, but

maybe just going forward. Um, because

just incidentally, just personally, my

deck is the same way. It gets slimy.

So, you know, not only for not only for

any construction, but just going forward

if there could be some type of

installation of the paint would actually

seal the wood and stop that slime. Okay.

Would it would it prevent um

preventing the slime? Yes. But would it

be a safety concern just just in general

from it just raining? No, because it's

non-skid. It's It's paint with sand.

Okay, that that's

commissioners. Any other concerns?

I get a motion.

Is there a second?

I'll second

for approval with the condition. All

those in favor state I I opposed.

Motion carried. So you know what you

heard tonight. We just continue with

Jeff. Yeah. And I would make sure you

work with your tenants there just to

make sure that they're safe. Definitely.

All right. Thank you very much. Let's

go. Thank you.

Item number four, this is a variance

application for 315 North Second. It's

zon commercial neighborhood called Adam

Redmond with Redmond Properties LLC

is to convert the existing office

building into a 10 unit multi.

Okay. The uh variance application for

315 North Second Street uh is a proposal

to convert the existing office building

into a 10-unit multif family dwelling

which requires only hearing board

approval of a variance from the density

regulations outlined in section 7-307.3A

of the zoning code. The buildings on

site will be converted into 1 and

twobedroom units ranging in size from

486 ft to,290 ft. Property at 315 North

Second Street is a.1 acre lot featuring

three attached buildings, a 2 and 1/2

story 2332t

structure, a three-story 2700 ft

structure, and a three-story 4938t

structure. All of which were constructed

circa 1900. Property is bounded by

Barber Street to the north. The property

at 210 Pine Street to the east and south

and North Second Street to the west.

These attached varying structures which

are or will be internally connected

feature elements of varying

architectural styles. The southernmost

of the three buildings features elements

of the federal architectural style.

Character defining features include the

painted brick facade, the arched

entryway and awning and access ramp at

the rear entrance and the regular

fenestration pattern. The main entrance

is recessed behind an arched entryway

featuring wide pillisters, a keystone

and a decorative sconce and features a

panel door flanked by divided light

sidelights and topped with a sunburst

transom featuring the property address.

Fenistration on the front elevation

includes five 12 over 12 windows with

wooden sills and decorative brick

headers which all feature painted wooden

shutters. There are additional five

divided light windows on the side and

rear elevations. The structure is topped

with a gable roof clad and asphalt

shingles. The middle building features

elements of the Italian8 architectural

style. Character defining features

include the painted brick facade and

water table, the decorative metal grates

over the basement windows, the former

entryway converted into a Juliet

balcony, the consistent fenestration

pattern, the three-story bay window, and

the decorative stepped brick cornness.

The main entrance is is no longer

accessible from the street as the stairs

were removed prior to October 2008 and

replaced with a decorative metal

railing, but features a wooden panel

door set in a simple frame and topped

with a sconce. The entryway previously

featured an arch brick surround, which

has since been infilled with brick.

Fenistration on the front elevation

includes 17 divided light wooden windows

set in simple wooden frames. Those on

the first and second floors include

storm windows. There are an additional

five divided light wooden windows on the

rear elevation which also include storm

windows. Structures topped with a flat

rubber roof. The northernmost of the

three buildings features elements of the

classical revival architectural style.

Character defining features include the

painted brick facade, the double-sided

access stairs, the regular fenestration

pattern, the substantial brick corners

featuring brick, the substantial corners

featuring brick pillisters, decorative

brick and wooden elements, and a central

embattlement with narrow windows and a

large three-story decorative brick

chimney on the side elevation. Main

entrance features a paneled wooden door

set in a simple panled frame flanked by

sconces and topped with a trans divided

light transom. It is accessed by

birectional brick steps with a simple

metal railing. Adenistration on the

front elevation includes five 9 over9

windows with brick sills and headers

which all feature painted wooden

shutters. There are an additional 11

divided light windows on the side

elevation and two dormers topped with

substantial pediments on the side roof

flanking the rear chimney. The structure

is topped with a gable roof clad real

slate shingles. The buildings retain a

significant amount of their

architectural and historic integrity and

exhibit a unique configuration of three

conjoined structures of differing

architectural styles. And although they

differ significantly from other

properties on the block, particularly

those to the north and south, they

reflect many of the same architectural

features as other historic properties

throughout the downtown historic

district. As such, the structures

contribute significantly to the eclectic

and diverse architectural and historic

character of the streetscape and

neighborhood.

The planning bureau staff recommends a

request be approved with the following

conditions. If the applicant receives

approval of the requisite zoning relief

requests, they must secure city council

approval of a land development plan for

the proposed conversion. Any exterior

alterations to the building will receive

approval from the historic preservation

uh from the historic preservation

specialist or if necessary receive harve

application. Planning bureau recommends

the applicant consider differentiating

the facades of the three buildings to

reestablish their original identities.

If the referenced parking spaces are not

on the subject property, the applicant

should provide a signed lease agreement

to allow parking at those spaces. And

just to clarify, I think the applicants

in their um application indicated that

there were eight spaces at the back of

the property, but when looking at the

property on the city's zoning map and

the county's tax parcel viewer, it

appears that that rear property is part

of the 210 Pine Street um property. So

there might be u an issue with the

county's records, but from my reading of

it, it looked like those are on a

different property. They may have an

existing lease for those um because of

the existing office building that's on

site, but I just wanted to clarify that

the Verizon, it's now Verizon. Yes. Uh

and then finally the applicant will

coordinate with the department of public

works to ensure that the account billing

reflects the establishment of the

proposed uses on site and to identify

the appropriate refuge storage and

collection needs. Plane bureau staff

recommends the request be approved for

the following reasons. The internal

configuration of three attached

buildings specifically the locations of

aspects such as walls, stairs and doors,

windows compels the reorganization of

space into more units than would be

permitted by right and the components

necessary for the establishment of the

byite multif family use such as

additional kitchens and bathrooms.

requires investment that is compensated

for through the addition of additional

units.

The proposed reuse will add new new

residents to the neighborhood to

activate the street on nights and

weekends and grow a customer base to

support local businesses and will

provide additional units to the downtown

housing inventory. The range of unit

sizes and the mix of one and two-bedroom

units will accommodate a variety of

household sizes and needs, helping to

further diversify the downtown housing

inventory. And finally, other

conversions of former office buildings

in the surrounding neighborhood have

demonstrated the proposed use will not

adversely impact the character of the

neighborhood.

Thank you, Jeff. Could you state your

names, address, and relationship?

Good evening, everyone. Thanks for

having us here tonight. My name is Phil

Patrina Mcnes Wallace and uh 100 Pine

Street on behalf of the applicant

Brenamman Properties LLC, uh who's also

here tonight. Yeah, appreciate everyone

having us. Adam Brenamman, owner of

Brenamman Properties LLC, uh 3423 Canyon

Creek, Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania.

Thank you. You both heard the uh staff

report with the conditions. Are you

acceptable of this condition? Yes. And

we just have a a short presentation here

tonight. Um I will pass out some

exhibits just to make sure we're all

looking at the the same thing here. But

recognizing that we're

and holiday.

Thanks.

So, as Mr. tonight uh so eloquently laid

out. Uh we we generally concur with the

comments made in the staff report. Um

applicant um is looking to um is under

an agreement of sale for the property uh

with the Pennsylvania Healthcare

Association there. It's been their

existing use uh since 1996.

Um we did want to clarify before I get

to my exhibits here. wanted to clarify

the parking um that the parking was

included in the agreement of sale um for

the for the property, the eight parking

spaces um behind the building. Um so

during the due diligence period of this

agreement of sale, which is um you know

due to close at the end of July, um

our impression is that the county tax

mapper may have been incorrect. Um but

during the due diligence process uh we

believe that the parking situation will

be clarified uh as they were part of the

contract. Um so they will um you know

either either at at the end of the the

due diligence be owned by the applicant

uh or um will be be deed to the

applicant um by the end of of closing uh

to the extent there are any

discrepancies. Um, so just to orient the

commission to where this property is

located, if you turn to exhibit A1,

um, that I passed out, that's a that's a

large, um, aerial image overview of the

property on at 315 North Second Street.

Um, if you're looking to the north,

that's the continuation of the Verizon

building. Um, looking just west is the

former Bridges Social Club. um which is

now um just a vacant um restaurant

property. Um to the south of 315 North

Second would be the Harmony Towers uh

and a few restaurants and convenience

stores. And then further to the east of

the property is um the the large brick

Verizon building along Second Street.

This property is located in the

commercial neighborhood district uh and

is one of the historic buildings along

uh North Second Street that applicant

intends uh and and and will preserve uh

as much of the history of this building

as possible as part of the conversion

from office to residential. It was one

of the big um driving points of of this

property here. Um

turning to exhibit A2. Um these are the

Google Street View images of the of the

property. Um just so that everyone is is

familiar with um what the you know

exterior facade looks like. Um you have

Barber Street that runs along um the

western side of the of the property

looking at it from the street. And then

the third aerial, I mean the third

Google Street image is that back parking

lot um again which was included as part

of the agreement of sale. The applicant

is under contract to purchase and close

on by the end of July. Um so now turning

to exhibit A3 is the floor plan. And so

we'll just talk a little bit about what

applicant plans to do here. But this is

intended to be a, as shown on the floor

plans, a 10- unit apartment multifamily

conversion, which is permitted by right

in the CN uh commercial neighborhood

district. Um the the parking is uh

pursuant to the zoning ordinance in the

commercial neighborhood district and in

um the downtown center district is uh

exempt from the parking requirements.

However, applicant is providing those

eight additional spaces. Um, so we saw

that as as an added benefit of this

property and again was one of the major

selling points um of the of the

transaction. Um, the 10 dwelling units

in the building. There will be a a unit

mix of six one-bedroom units and four

twobedroom units. The approximate um

average square footage of those units

collectively is 719 718.7

square feet. Um and it the units will be

spanned across uh two floors of the

building. And so tonight, um, we are

here to request a recommended approval,

uh, of our variance request in the

application from the density requirement

of section 7-307 of the zoning

ordinance, um, to permit 10 dwelling

units at this property. Um the applicant

is here tonight to answer any questions

that the commission might have. Um but

is very excited and and anxious about

this project uh with the opportunity to

redevelop uh a really awesome building

along North Second Street uh in in a

much needed area for additional housing

and hopefully more foot traffic for the

businesses and restaurants uh in the in

the commercial neighborhood district and

also that downtown center district right

next to it. Um, so with that, we will

request uh a recommended approval and

concur with with uh Mr. Knight's uh

report and then I will yield to the

commission for questions.

as far as the parking concern right now

based on what you've said there any

still any concerns about who owns it or

uh no I would you know like I said it I

would guess that those are on the

adjacent property but my guess is that

they've had a long-standing lease for

those and that's why they're discussing

them as like deed with the pro with that

property they've you know probably been

leasing them to the to the business

that's operating on in in the property I

mean they've presumably been parking

there. Um, so I would guess that's how

it works out. But regardless of whether

they own it or they're leasing it, like

long-term leasing, in my opinion, that's

the same thing. It's about the provision

of the parking and and it seems like

they have that in hand.

And as far as parking again, I know you

you have the eight spaces. Um,

would sort of nice if you were providing

for the tennis like recent spaces in the

parking places downtown.

Just something

to the extent possible. I think that you

know we will evaluate that and if if

possible to add additional spaces uh in

compliance obviously with the with the

zoning ordinance and the you know the

dimensional requirements of the parking

um that that's certainly something that

we will evaluate and take into

consideration here.

commissioners. Right now, that's my only

question, but we'll come back to that.

Um, Commissioner, do you have any

concerns or questions? Uh, no. Uh, well,

not really. Uh, we're seeing a lot of

this right now, conversion from uh

commercial office spaces to residential.

That's a good thing. We're all behind

that. Um, and when it happens, the only

issue we have is density. And Jeffrey,

you're you have no I mean, you have pro

no problem with that. Um, yeah. Hey, you

know, as I noted, um, they I think the

probably unique interior of the building

being that it's three connected

buildings and like where those stairs

are, where those features are. And I

think as in the way they've laid laid

out the uh different apartments where

they're not just, you know, all the same

square footage, you know, tiny little

apartments, scene, as many as they can

cram into the nooks and crannies there.

They have a diversity of uh sizes and

styles of their apartments. You know, I

think they're it's clear they're not

just trying to maximize the number of

units in there. I think and so I think

it's always tough to say you know what

is the minimum number of units to make a

project financially viable. I think like

I think it's not a surprise that

everything's more expensive right now.

You know uh the numbers have to be kind

of increased a little bit to make

projects work and and I think that the

uh uh layout of the interior um is you

know reasonable from that perspective.

All right.

And Mr. Mr. Brenman, it appears that

Ryan Herur is not a partner of yours in

this. He He has the opportunity to be if

he wants to. Then I can't vote for you.

Yeah. Yeah. You have

commission.

This is a followup to the previous

question and this is for staff as well.

In in your comments here, you

you indicated that you more information

is necessary to justify why 10 units are

necessary rather than eight for example.

I mean I think that's you know uh

working on the margins a little bit of

like I know it can be difficult uh for

developers to provide proformas um

numbers are changing stuff like that. I

know a lot of times developers

um don't often want that out there

because that might be their proprietary

information for how they uh do projects

and they don't want their competitors to

have. Um so uh it would be I think kind

of um helpful if they were able to

provide you know more to clarify that

difference. But that all being said I

like I said looking at the layout of the

structure um and the way they've got uh

their units laid out I mean it seems

rational. Um okay

I would just respond to that comment and

saying that um an analysis was done uh

and and numbers run by engineers to

determine what would be the you know the

maximum number of units that would

comfortably fit in this um property um

while also still being uh financially

feasible for the developer. uh and and

that that number um is is what was

reached at 10 dwelling units. Um you

know the the the full analysis of that

um

we can produce evidence of of how we

arrived at that number um at the zoning

hearing board. That's that was the

rationale and a lot of intentionality

and thought went behind how we arrived

at that number and you know throughout

the planning process um before we got it

to this point that number did change a

few times um you know just reflecting

the thought that Mr. Brenamman had had

put into it and and how we can optimize

this space. Yeah, I'll add too something

that was important to me was, you know,

from a um development standpoint, this

building could feasibly hold a lot more

than 10 units, but I wanted to make sure

that our this building and the units

were good size that we had a range, as

as Mr. nice set of of two-bedroom units

and we we have a unit over a thousand

square feet units that are good size and

that mix of one bedrooms and two

bedrooms u which I I think is very very

feasible and be great for the

neighborhood

commissioner

I really just echo um my other

commissioner's comments about the number

of units and providing justification for

that need for to meet the variance

requirements. And ultimately, you know,

that's going to come down to zoning.

We'll make that decision. Um, but I had

the same question about whether 10 units

is necessary and is it justified. Um,

beyond that, I mean, I am in favor of

converting this type of property back to

probably its more intended use, which

would be residential, you know, living

um, in the location. And I'm sure if the

parking is part of the sale agreement,

that will get reflected in the deed and

probably land develop you'll need to

submit a land development plan. So,

we'll see that reflected in there.

Commission,

the only question I had is um have you

guys started to consider what your

proposed rental rate range might be for

these units?

Yeah, we have um started to to run the

numbers on it. Um these were as of this

time um market rate units and um you

know as as you know the the rates change

and based on you know the time of year

and when we go to market we would hope

that that we are leasing these units up

in 2026 at some point middle of 2026 um

at that market rate.

Thank you.

Is there anyone from the public on my

right

against this project?

Okay. Um, as my commission said, I think

it's a good project.

We all like to see the downtown filled

up with people again, and this seems to

be one of those projects that will help

out. And

the other is there anything in there

like office buildings presently or

anybody in that those buildings?

I'm sorry. Could you repeat that? I'm

sorry. Are there any occupants in those

buildings at the present time like

office or right now? No. Uh it it's the

Pennsylvania Healthcare Association and

they're actually if they haven't already

moved out, they they're in the process

of moving out. Um just because they they

don't need the office space anymore. So,

they they listed it for sale uh and Mr.

Brenamman was able to to enter into a

contract with them to purchase it um

because they are downsizing an office

space. So, there there won't be any

occupants of it um by closing.

Okay. Just wonder commissioners. Can I

get a motion on this program?

Is there a second?

Second. It's been moved and second

approval of this project. All those in

favor say I.

Good luck. Thank you.

Have a good holiday everybody.

Okay,

moving right along. Item number five.

This was a application for 508 and 510

North Second Street Merchant

Neighborhood by David Futcher with WCI

Partners LP. It was to convert the

existing office building

with a total of 11 units. It appears

that the applicant has requested

to August 6c.

So moved. Second. Second.

Second to continue. All those in favor

say by saying I oppose and

uh six land development plan application

for 508 510 North Second Street Zone

commercial neighborhood followed by

David Butcher with WC partners LP 11

total units between the two buildings.

Applicant has requested to

Is there a motion?

So moved. Is there a second? Second.

Move a second for continuousation of the

land development plan to the August 6

meeting. All those in favor say by

saying I I opposed and abstension.

Motion carries. Item number seven, land

development plan application for 1081

Elliot Street

Indust. is followed by Charlotte Kum

lawyer with capital region water

construction industrial building

associated site and excess improvements

request continues to the August 6 HPC.

Can I get a motion?

Is there a second? Second

for approval or to have the

continuation. All those in favor state I

opposed and carried.

Okay. Other business. Uh you mentioned a

new member maybe. Uh yes. So uh I

believe uh there was a nomination for a

member uh who was heard last night.

Correct. Yes. Uh last night's city

council meeting for uh Basier Vincent.

Um so I think he'll probably be getting

a final vote at the July 8th meeting.

So, I would imagine he would be in

attendance at the August 6 meeting,

presuming he's approved.

What's his background? Um, uh, I didn't

look too much through his resume. Yep.

He he was running for city council. Um,

Mr. Vincent was, uh, pretty involved in

the comprehensive plan process,

especially towards the end of, uh, the

process. So, he is familiar, you know,

with planning in the city and more

specifically with the comprehensive

plan. Um I you know his uh run for a

city council I think demonstrates a a

passion and a commitment to the city of

Harrisburg. So um you know all of those

things I think make would make him a

good candidate for uh for the seventh

seat.

Yes.

Yeah. I did I did meet with him at one

point I think maybe in 2019 or 2020 kind

of towards the end of the process. So um

and again I I could tell you he was

passionate about uh the city and about

making you know sure that uh uh we are

following our planning documents in the

projects that

I missed in the city council race.

Uh anything for the good of the order

commissioners?

Well, it's

leaving coming in. I mean, that's the

nature of cities, a constant evolution.

Well, the uh the residents hopefully

with these projects. So,

I'm not a millennial.

I don't know.

But seemed like the entertainment is

moving to

State Street.

Well, you guys did

guys did approve those music venues for

uh for Second Street here and and

hopefully uh you know, I think there's a

it's kind of a chicken or an egg

sometimes, I think. And if there's a lot

of people, they're going to be

demanding, you know, moving downtown,

they're going to be demanding things.

whether it's restaurants, music venues,

retail. So hopefully that follows um our

coming.

Could I get a motion for

Is there a second? Second.

Okay. All those in favor state by saying

I I