Harrisburg City Council Legislative Session 12/17/24

e

good evening

everyone

um we will will review our legislative

agenda during our legislative caucus and

then we will call our legislative

session to order immediately following

so I will call the meeting to order Mr

trusdale will lead our roll call the

invocation this evening will be led by

councilman Rodriguez followed by the

Pledge of Allegiance which will be led

by councilwoman Daniels for

communications this evening we have a

presentation

from our research analyst Mr Cedric

Humphrey and he will be sharing uh on

our year in

review we will then open the floor for

Courtesy of the floor next we have

approval of minutes for the legislative

session that occurred on December 9th

2024 we do not have any reports of

committees or ordinances for first

reading

we have two bills for Amendment Bill s

of

2024 and Bill 8 of

[Music]

2024 we have two bills for final passage

Bill seven of 2024 and Bill 8 of

2024 both which we will vote upon we do

not have any resolutions for discussion

this evening is there any old business

for discussion council members

okay seeing and hearing none any new

business uh it's not exactly new

business but um just if we could add in

a section under the communications for

the finance department to give just a a

little summary from our budget process

and our budget hearings and then also

I'd like to read the letter from the IC

regarding the budget yes thank you for

acknowledging that I was I figured you

would but thank you

yes okay everybody ready to get started

so the time is 611

p.m. I would like to call our

legislative session to

order Mr trusdale could you please call

the role Miss Daniels here Miss Davis

present Miss green present Mr Jones here

miss

rolls

pres Mr Rodriguez present Miss Bowers

present thank thank you the invocation

will be led by councilman Rodriguez

thank you Madame President as we Embark

into our holiday season I just wanted to

find uh you know peace and Tranquility

for the city of Harrisburg but the

country as a whole um there's a lot of

turmoil going on and you know a lot of

discrepancies whether there be race

religion Creed it really doesn't matter

where you're from I say just go into the

holiday season with peace and love in

your heart um an extra an extra shout

out and love from count Al goes to the

bware family the Hughes family and any

family within the city that has lost and

currently are hurting through the

holiday season just know we're with you

and you know your pain is ours so have a

Merry Christmas a happy holiday and a

very very prosperous New Year from

Harrisburg city council to you all thank

you thank you councilman Rodriguez the

Pledge of Allegiance will be led by

councilwoman Daniels

to the flag of the United States of

America and to the Republic for it

stands one nation under God indivisible

with liy and justice for

all thank you councilwoman Daniels for

communications this evening we will have

two uh presentations the first will be

delivered by Mr Cedric Humphrey who

serves as our research analyst he will

share a presentation of City council's

year in

review good evening Council hello

everybody uh my name is Cedric Humphrey

I serve as the research analyst for

Harrisburg city council and I'm just

going to briefly go over the 2024

Harrisburg city council year in review

which will be available for public

viewing on our website tomorrow as

well so on January 2nd uh city council

began its 2024 2025 session

by introducing two new council members

uh Crystal Davis and LaMont Jones their

pictures are there on the right uh the

more beautiful one is Miss Crystal Davis

I'm sorry councilman um and then during

the reorganization council elected its

leadership for the term as president

Bowers the um the chair of the

administration committee vice president

green the chair of the budget and

finance committee councilwoman Daniels

the chair of the community Economic and

Development Committee councilwoman Davis

the chair of the building and housing

committee committee councilwoman RS the

chairs of The Parks at Recreation and

enrichment committee councilman

Rodriguez the Public Works chair and

councilman Jones the chair of the Public

Safety

Committee so we started off getting

oriented on January 31st city council

hosted its second annual orientation and

Retreat it served as an opportunity for

Council to set goals for the upcoming

year and generally discuss committee

priorities council members were treated

to presentations from the office of open

records the national league of cities

and the Pennsylvania municipal league

and the keynote was presented by Miss

Tiff low who is the gvi project manager

for the city of York accompanied um with

the police chief of York and her staff

as

well so as we were getting into the

groove some of the legislative

highlights early in the year included

resolutions 14 and 15 which authorized

the MLB mandated renovation of FNB field

on City Island and Council also hosted a

policy work session regarding ghost guns

alongside Brandon flood formerly of

ceasefire PA this discussion led to the

passage of Bill 6 of

2024 and as for Springtime engagement

Harrisburg city council reinstated

hotspot Saturdays for its third year by

passing resolution 8 of 2024 uh hotspot

Saturdays is an initiative spearheaded

by councilman Rodriguez that toate has

helped remove more than 150 tons of

illegal waste council members also

participated in in the parent task force

in partnership with the administration

in the Harrisburg School

District and we spent time this year

highlighting our community we recognized

several important members of our

community over the course of the Year

It's always important to shine a

spotlight on the people and the

organizations that make our city great

so some of the highlights include uh

honoring Corey Dupri the co-founder of

layers of black history Brad Jones the

CEO of Harristown Corporation we also

honored the Harrisburg area Community

College uh with its 60th anniversary and

then downtown harrisburg's own Whitaker

Center for their 25th

anniversary and then we also highlighted

generations of achievement uh we

celebrated local athletic achievements

all year from celebrating the

championship winning driven from within

AA 12u and 10U basketball teams to

congratulating our very own Jakari Lomax

who participated in the 2024 us track

and field Olympic trials all of this

culminating uh by honoring coach Dez

mingis uh the man responsible for

bringing Sports into the lives of

countless young people in the

city we step in the court we mean what

bu we step in the court we mean what we

standing on

[Applause]

and then on August 10th uh Council

sponsored the first annual Dez Mingus

classic at Reservoir Park uh the onc

court mural of Coach Mangus was

repainted and the road leading to the

courts was dedicated for Coach Dez it

now reads and forever will read destri e

Mangus way uh in honor of the man who

has inspired and supported so many

Harrisburg residents throughout his life

three

[Applause]

and as we wind it down on the year uh we

once again partnered with the Harrisburg

fire department to hand out treat bags

at our annual pre-t Trick or Treat night

want to say thank you to everyone who

stopped by to see us and all the kids

who dressed up in the adorable costumes

and Council also participated in the

annual holiday parade

downtown and so just a little recap of

the legislative highlights of this year

the Harrisburg city council considered

86 resolutions and nine bills including

the 225 proposed budget which uh will be

discussed later on tonight uh there were

eight Land Development plans approved by

Council over the course of the year I

sat back did the math in Council heard

over three hours of public comment

during the meetings this year um which

is honestly rather impressive um and

then also held two policy work sessions

focused on ghost guns and home

ownership and then once again Harrisburg

city council is nothing without the

community that it serves um in 2025 we

want to hear more from its citizens and

also get a little bit more participation

uh if you'd like to join the council for

a meeting there's work sessions every

1st and third Tuesdays at 5:30 p.m.

legislative uh sessions every 2 and

fourth Tuesdays at 6 p.m. um and then

you can also follow and interact with us

on all of our socials which are listed

below and then once again this

presentation will be available on our

website tomorrow morning uh for the

Public's viewing so you can always go

there and and check back on what we've

done this

year we've been busy busy this year

that's awesome thank you it's always

nice to reflect on uh the year that has

passed so that we know how to move

forward in the new year so thank you for

compiling all of the data pictures video

that was cool I like the interactive

video so thank you for that thank

you

y our second presentation this evening

will be delivered by the finance

department related to the 2025 proposed

budget

okay uh yes good evening everyone uh

thank you president Bowers and vice

president green for kind of squeezing me

in on on your Communications agenda I

appreciate that um last week on Thursday

I I went through you might recall all

the all the other funds for the city and

I thought I would just give you a a

verbal narrative just circling back to

the city's two biggest funds of course

the general fund and the neighborhood

services fund um just as a refresher the

general fund has a proposed budget

expenditure budget of of $87 million

it's not the typical amount uh year in

and year out and the the revenue sources

that support that again uh revenue is

also 87 million and if you recognize the

um the $6 million on the the rack PE

grant for the the stadium project uh 4.5

million in um anticipated insurance

proceeds relative to Broad Street Market

and 3.5 million in accumulated interest

income uh to help support our

expenditures when when and interfund

transfers that that also play a role

from the special funds the total to

$825,000

when you when you net those down it

comes down to what the the city's

typical uh normal recurring revenue is

uh of about 72.1 million for the

year and our expenditures of course

include as I mentioned there's

a an offset matching of extraordinary

items including Broad Street Market FNB

field uh we have various capital

expenditure needs for next year that we

that we

reviewed uh the one the the pension EXP

expense related to the the MMO or

minimum Municipal obligation has

increased um and then uh also our uh

handling or management of our our

medical claim expenditures as we as we

work through that

process so that's the general fund uh

then and oh the of course to emphasize

of 87 million we do we do have a balance

budget for for the general fund revenues

do equal

expenditures uh which means there's no

use of cash fund

balance for the neighbor Neighborhood

Services fund uh similar items to note

there we do have a balanced budget uh no

use of cash fund balance for for next

year our total expenditure budget is

21.8 million um which includes the the

main part of of Neighborhood Services is

the Public Works city services

sanitation piece and also the Parks

maintenance uh component we also include

and we have separate uh specific budgets

for the three Burrows that the city

provides the trash services um namely

Steelton Penbrook and Pax

tang and then also to note the revenue

includes the uh $2 million that was an

initiative coming out of the American

Rescue plan act uh Grant award so that

that is part of the the included Revenue

source for the for this fund for next

year so I uh I wanted to keep it brief

and just give you that that quick again

quick summary on on those two major

funds so thank you for

that thank

you vice president green you wanted to

share the ica's correspondence relative

to the budget yes I'll be reading uh

majority of the correspondence from the

ICA regarding the 2025

budget The Authority received and

reviewed the 2025 budget and additional

information provided by the city for the

conference excuse me for the conformant

both the criteria set forth in act 1124

additionally we have observed the city

council's budget hearings and workshops

three broad observations follow the

proposed 2025 budget includes no

substantial changes Beyond those

provided in the city's 5-year financial

plan as Prov is approved by the

authority on September 9th

2024 please note that pursuant to act 24

after the budget is adopted the city May

submit the enacted budget to the

authority as a proposed revision to the

plan the proposed 2025 budget includes

the maintenance of a cash fund balance

in the general fund of approximately $17

Million by the end of

2025 the city should remain Vigilant

that the cash balance in the general

fund remains sufficient to fund future

obligations specific concerns impacting

future revenue for the city including

diminishing real estate tax revenue for

reassessment of properties the

continuing lack of revenue from the

parking scheme implemented by the strong

plan and the pr precarious nature of the

local economy in the city are not

sufficiently addressed in the 2025

proposed budget as we move forward into

2025 and in summary The Authority

remains alert to the city's maintenance

of a fund balance in both the general

fund and the neighborhood service fund

we acknowledge the city's support and

maintains the fund balance policy and we

urge the city to continue to take steps

to maintain a structurally balanced

budget across all funds at all times the

authority remains concerned about the

collection rate for the Aged receivables

in the neighborhood service fund

achieving a rate of collection or

current receivable above 95% as soon as

possible and commitment to review and

adjust fees as necessary for sufficiency

to meet expenses and avoid drawing from

reserves as needed additionally

accounting for revenue and expenditure

figures individually for partner

municipality contracts is a welcome

improvement with next steps including an

ongoing analysis of the B balance by

contract and a way that assures rates

for our neighboring communities are

sufficient to fund those services in

their entirety both individually and

collectively The Authority encourages

the administration to prioritize the

development of a comprehensive economic

development plan apart from its

importance for the vitility and

opportunity affords the downtown in our

neighborhoods it is an Ral tool for the

city to build long-term economic growth

in the face of future Trends including

concerns about demun of property tax

revenue it also informs the work now

underway for the updates to the zoning

ordinance and potential updates to the

comprehensive plan we acknowledge a

broad-based work group is being put

together and hope it works to expedite

this year relatively we also note the

one-year extension of the lurer program

and the anticipated formation of a work

group to further find and development

tool as previously stated the authority

is interested in a formal adoption of

OPB trust fund it is a required step for

the city's planned exit from act 47 we

believe it we believe it important in

its own right as well as it necessary to

satisfy the parallel requirements of act

124 and the strong plan unfortunately

the city's proposed 2025 budget does not

adequately demonstrate a commitment to

Performance metrics or statistical

analysis both which we believe would

benefit the city while while some

departments and bureaus have made

progress in this respect and some have

begun to exploit the management tools

available through mun software

conversion we think this standard should

be promoted and implemented more

uniformly and more broadly we applaud

the efforts to develop a comprehensive

Capital Improvement plan for the city it

is long overdue and its breath May

indicate the challenges the city faces

and maintenance of infrastructure for in

excess of the available resources

finally the IC is following the interest

in developing excuse me the interest

with interest the Redevelopment of the

Broad Street Market and investment in

the FNB fi Stadium project as both may

generate local burden on future budgets

as a whole the city's proposed 2025

budget meets the authorities

expectations for the proper financial

management of the city of Harrisburg we

congratulate you and your finance

department with the efforts to build a

foundation of stability for the city's

financial future

thank you we will now move forward with

our meeting agenda next we have courtesy

of the floor so just a few housekeeping

notes before we begin please state your

name and address for the meeting record

if you don't feel comfortable sharing

your address please share the vicinity

in which you live within the city you'll

have four minutes to share your comments

Mr trusdale will serve as our timekeeper

I will begin to my right is there is

there anyone that would like to offer

public

comment seeing and hearing no one anyone

in the middle

section bless for 2033 belie Road

Harrisburg I work at 1824 North Fourth

Street at the Hines meder Senior Center

we had a brief

interaction at the last meeting U at

which I tried to lay out some of the

parameters and issues as we go forward I

want to be very clear uh the hind Center

has been a Bo to this community for over

60 years it will continue to do so if it

receives a sufficient level of support

from this city not just the state not

just the county but also this

city I um attempted to Del into details

at the last

session um I am adamant about that I'm

passionate about that because this is an

emerging problem from our point of

view I did not uh have quite enough time

to finish that but uh I invite you to

look at Fox 43 they were at the center

today we had a press conference um I

think that Fox 43 did a pretty good job

of covering the Salient points of that

interaction we had room full of seniors

who were obviously very interested in

what was going

on we are at a crisis I want to make

that very clear if we weather this storm

it will be to the credit of everyone in

this municipality in this area if we do

not whether this storm then it will be

as a result of the actions taken or not

taken by various entities within this

municipality so once again we are um

essentially accumulating more and more

debt each and every day if we get to

January it will be highly unlikely that

we will be able to extend our line of

credit in order to continue to provide

services so I want everyone on city

council and everyone in the city to be

very aware of the crisis nature of the

situation and that is what drives my

passion thank

you thank you is there anyone else in

the middle section that would like to

offer public comment seeing and hearing

no one anyone to my

left no Miss Evelyn okay I didn't want

to miss you this

time okay we will continue with our

meeting

agenda next we have approval of minutes

for the legislative session that

occurred on December 9th

2024 council members are there any

revision to those meeting

minutes okay seeing and hearing none the

minutes stand approved we do not have

any reports of committees or ordinances

for first reading we do have two bills

for Amendment the first is Bill 7 of

2024 Mr trusdale could you please read

it into the record Bill 7 2024 in

ordinance establishing the budget for

the municipal government of the city of

Harrisburg for the year 2025

thank you I will defer to our budget and

finance committee chair to lead the

amendment discussion vice president

green thank you president Bowers um

first thing we're going to do is uh have

a list of the technical Corrections for

the budget that will be read by our

finance department um then from there I

will go through a list of amendments

that have been proposed by council

members that were sent in um I will note

as I go through the potential amendments

if there are other potential amendments

that will conflict with it that way we

have all the information from the

beginning um everyone should have a copy

of these that were emailed out to them

as well um and then from there we will

vote on each Amendment one at a time uh

and if there are any other amendments

that people would like to bring from the

floor they are more than welcome to

bring those as

well whenever you're ready Mr

Brooks good evening Council

I'll be reading the list of technical

Corrections for the 2025 proposed

budget

and The Click Share is not working for

me to be able to publish it here but

I'll read off of the uh the document I

have

here you can if you

like all right starting from the top we

added the anniversary date to the A two

position in the financial management

section um and the Bureau of codes the

new position of the electrical

residential inspector was made visible

in the Personnel section of their budget

no budget amounts were

impacted and the solicitor's office the

new position of a legal assistant was

made visible in the Personnel section of

their budget again no budget amounts

were

impacted and Neighborhood Services fund

city services the new position of

demolition specialist was made visible

in the Personnel section of the budget

again no budget amounts were

impacted in the business resource

development uh section we removed the

name arpa from the program manager

position

names there's two of them and arpa was

on both of their name so we removed them

from

both um we removed the fund Revenue

summary in capital projects on page

225 on page 22 of the fund summary we

updated the capital project fund revenue

and expenditure amounts to be accurate

with the capital project fund section of

the book on page

224 also on page 224 and the capital

projects fund the column headers were

changed to accurately represent the

information display displayed below the

headers

due to a typo in the request process

line item

1066

42460 uh other rental only uh 50 $50 was

mistakenly budgeted however

$50,000 uh is is the intended request

that uh we are going to wait for an

amendment from uh Council to move

forward that was not updated within the

numbers of our um our

thing in the license and tax license and

tax enforcement section of the budget on

page 113 of the overtime amount the

overtime amount of 3,000 $33,000 did not

show in the position control that did

not impact any um budget

amounts on page 141 in the police

Personnel within the police department

section the year above the salary Rose

did not show we wanted to add that to

make it very

clear uh we are adding the revenue

section to the neighborhood services

fund to show the revenue breakdown for

that neighborhood services

department the Personnel section is

being made visible for the parks

recreation and enrichment

section the position control for parks

recreation and enrichment is being

updated to reflect the accurate 24 and

25 personel

figures and due to a typo in the 2024

salary amounts for the Park and

Recreation manager

$66,500

this will change the personnel and

position control totals as well as the

overall budget for parks recreation and

enrichment and the last is the position

control was made visible for the police

section this will conclud UD all of the

technical Corrections for the proposed

2025

budget thank you very much any

questions yeah there was one in the

budget that we talked about too that

read like like it was 17 cents I can

forget what line item it was remember I

had pointed that out to

you it read at $17 I think it was

[Music]

eight8

866 th000 and

I had to go back yes I remember you

remember I councilman Jones I remember I

pointed it out also um initially it was

eight comma and it was just a misprint

um I think that was in the actual

presentation though not the budget not

in the budget was like in their

presentation in the in the budget book

it wasn't there all

right and I think it was another one

too it was that the 33 3,000 that was

shown again that was in your

presentation just making sure that's not

in the book you had to

um you budgeted for 9,000 it said you

spent 33,000 and then you were asking

for another 9,000 but I think it was

supposed to read 3,000 I think that's

the par bu was it was you corrected it

all right just making sure thank you any

other questions or

comments seeing none um thank you very

much uh for those technical Corrections

do we need to vote on those or because

they're technical we don't have to vote

on them

correct it's a mixed bag actually um

most of them because the motion will

include authorizing the tech technical

Corrections uh discussed in the course

of budget hearings um they can just be

made by the administration if Council so

votes there is one imp particular which

is the $3,000 error in parks and wreck

because uh it was also discussed doing

an amendment for parks and recre for the

summer temp program and those two ought

to be woven together in an amendment um

that to make up that

difference and so I've been really clear

the 50 to 50,000 is a judgment call on

how to approach

it that the intention was $50,000 and

let type over 50 if the council makes a

motion to incre Ines to $50,000 you

trigger uh the 10day advertising

requirement which means you come back on

December 30th or December 31st for

another vote on the budget so not doing

that is by making it a technical

Amendment seems the more prudent course

uh because it was the intention of the

administration to make the number

$50,000 okay um I agree with that being

a technical correction unless any of my

council members um see fit to to um make

a

motion um I'll leave it up to council

for that so uh I won't I will ask if

that's made as a technical correction

unless anyone has an

objection sing now um we will now move

on to

the list of proposed amendments for the

2025 budget uh I will read over each

proposed amendment um we will have a

chance to discuss and then we will vote

on each Amendment

individually so proposed amendment

number

one I make a motion to amend the 2025

proposed budget for the office of the

mayor by eliminating the annual

increases in the proposed 2025 budget

under salaries and wages for the

following positions director of equity

and compliance Special Assistant for

director of equity and compliance

Special Assistant for Community Affairs

Special Assistant to the mayor and

confidential

secretary I would need a

second I second the

motion it's been moved in second uh is

there anyone who'd like to provide any

discussion I'll

not I propos this amendment because um I

did

request job descriptions for all of

these employees in the mayor's office I

was informed by the mayor that she

shared the job descriptions last year so

I wanted to determine if anything had

changed in these roles so that's why I

offered the

amendment thank you any other

discussion seeing none Mr chuso would

you uh call the vote unless there is any

other discussion or

comments I don't think there is but um

there's no

okay Miss Daniels

no Miss green

no Miss

Davis

no Mr Jones

yes

yay Miss

Rose hear did you say

yes yes

okay Mr Rodriguez

yes Miss

yes the First Amendment passes by a vote

of four to

three thank you um amendment number two

I make a motion to amend the 2025

proposed budget for the office of City

treasur by eliminating the annual

increase in the proposed 2025 budget

under salaries and wages for the

position of Deputy treasure so

move that's the

second um any discussion anybody want to

comment or make any discussion or have

any discussion Excuse me yes um I

propose this amendment as well um I feel

strongly that the residents of the city

of Harrisburg are still at a

disservice um in terms of access to the

treasurer's office I did some

research um between our last budget

hearing and this meeting tonight um um I

wanted to know if other third class

cities uh treasur office had limited

hours as well so what I learned was um

some cities operate their Treasurer's

Office While others are operated by the

county in which the city um is under so

I'll just share a few the city of York

the treasur office is open to the public

from 9:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. Mondays

through Fridays except holidays the city

of Lancaster the Bureau of Treasury is

open from 8:30 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Mondays

through Fridays the city of Allentown

the Bureau of Treasury and accounting is

open from 8:00 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. Mondays

through Fridays the city of Easton the

finance department is open from 8:30

a.m. to 4:30 p.m. Mondays through

Fridays the city of eie the treasurer's

office is open from 8:30 a.m. to 4 4:30

p.m. Mondays through Fridays the city of

Williamsport the treasur office is open

from 8:30 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. Mondays

through Fridays so these are just a few

that I found in my research and I feel

that with an office still operating

under Limited hours until

2:30 as you see other cities um have

clear hours where residents um and other

members of the public are able to access

them so that's why I offered this

amendment I don't think it's fair that

if someone arrives here at 2:30 they

have to knock on a door if people are

still here they come open the door and

then they gain assistance that's not

right so that's why I offered this

amendment thank you very much um I would

agree with this amendment just because

uh it seems like uh this has been a

repetitive conversation that we've had

um I do believe it was about a year ago

that um there was the conversation of

adding um another position to ensure

that they would be able to open fulltime

I believe we added that position and

still um the hours didn't change and it

it kind of seems like the conversation

always circles back to if you give me

what I want we'll open up full time um

and I just don't take kindly to that I

don't think the residents of the city

should be held hostage um to people's

demands in order to open the office that

is supposed to be open that's that's the

job of the the treasury Department um is

they make it clear to collect all funds

for the city uh and it's hard to collect

those funds if you're not open um so I

would I would definitely agree with this

um because I think it's unnecessary for

them not to be open um and we very much

have the capabilities to be open it

doesn't seem like there's anything being

done to try to make for sure that the

residents of the city can be served even

when those those doors are closed um and

we've also heard from other departments

who shared how the impact of them not

being open affects their office as well

um and I've heard from several residents

throughout the year um who have come

down and haven't been able to pay

parking tickets or different things um

because the treasury's office isn't open

and they're the ones to suffer from it

so I would agree with this and um I

thank you for offering this

amendment any other discussion yeah uh

so for me um I agree with um both both

vice president and president

um I also feel that um that there was a

memo sent out and um we may not agree

with the language but I think we can get

those extended hours to four so I you

know I don't know if it's going to be

that exact amount but I would um be in

favor of giving her a raise um for those

those extended hours um that's just

where I am with it

um from from my from from how it's being

explained to me and someone can correct

me if I'm wrong is that um though that

position is getting paid by the the

tickets that are coming in right um our

service they I think they get paid like

$10 off of that the actual

worker if I'm I don't think that's true

no and they also from from the

conversation that we

have in the memo that that position is

not even um allowed to work the front

counter because uh the front counter is

only a union position so um this

position has nothing to do with the

hours that the office should be open you

know to a certain extent um they run the

office on a day-to-day basis but as far

as like them needing to be available to

work the front counter that's that's not

true they have the staff to be able to

do that okay so so a teller and an

auditor both must be present in order

for money to be collected so there are

two different positions that must be

there which is not the deputy for the

other managers so now so the the the the

funding the the money that's going to be

paid to said individuals doesn't come

from any of that Revenue that's being

generated from those tickets is what the

money we're all pay comes from that but

I'm saying specifically for that office

because you said no because you said the

deputy isn't getting that and I get what

you're saying as a whole yes I

understand when Revenue comes in the

taxes everything that's how we pay all

of our salaries so I get that um that's

all I'm saying it's not designated for

any purpose specific position right okay

so in this

memo again with the extended hour so is

the 88 that President Bowers I'm asking

you that um that you are requesting is

that's what what it is now yes that is

their current salary so again um you

know if she's going to go those extra

hours again it may not be to the extent

of the increase that they're asking but

I am in favor of raising her salary to

an extent so and I I just wanted add to

that on to piggyback I don't think it's

even an extension of the hours it's the

general business hours that the MLK

building should traditionally operate on

it's not like she's doing an extra load

it's the actual job that she signed up

for and the resident should the building

should be open to four with the

department heads here and able to help

um Mr Hines will tell you sometimes

senior citizens can only get here

certain times of the day and I know my

grandma would want a receipt you know

instead of just leaving something in a

drop box you know cuz yeah but but it's

not like it's not like they're giving us

an additional service for these funds

they should they should be open that

hours plus it's really the audacity of

demanding kind of like holding the

residents up for hostage like oh this

this a makeup for what we didn't get

last year I just think that's not doing

a due Justice to the residents you know

because I don't think anyone's owed

anything unless they have the

performance sing

so okay in my opinion just in my opinion

so my think I agree J generally what

what everyone is saying but also think

that we're council members we're

government and we have to be rational so

I propos a later Amendment where we pair

where we match her salary to her

equivalent at the license because she's

in a weird position in that she's doing

the job her

boss has told her to do right so

she's so the solution to that is that

residents vote him out right and we get

there's a new Treasurer to run the

treasury the way that's more respons

that would be Council taking action I

think I agree with you I agree with you

but I think four years of asking would

be Council doing their due diligence

trying to work with the Department right

but we're still the employer in this

situation and you know the way I see it

is if I were an employee who did what my

boss told me to do and I was paid

differently than someone else whose boss

was doing the same thing I would have

serious concerns over that and I don't

know how much like I don't know if that

opens up to us to liability or not but I

would like to see us um kind of REM just

remember that we're also employers while

we're also uh elected officials I agree

I just think year one asking would be

trying to work with year two asking

would be you know showing that you're

trying to work with but after four years

and it's still no because it's give and

take right like it's give and takee um

but in my opinion I'm just asking to

give the residents what they're old that

that's all I have I eliminate my

personal preference and opinion out of

this I'm just here as a legislator and I

know we've asked for at least four years

to just have you know common courtesy

and open up them doors from 9 to four

and it's been a struggle to be honest

with you the treasur hasn't evaded this

Council for about three

years so I don't know what this looks

like so so Madam chair uh there is a

motion on the floor with the second this

a discussion council members are free to

make a motion to amend that motion the

chair would have to accept it to the

moving party or they could wait for a

vote on this one and then make their own

separate motion but but you have to vote

a motion at a

time okay um so say that again so you're

saying if it comes to another uh council

member they can make another Mo that's

too much yeah um you you can make a

motion to amend the current motion the

the the moving uh you make you make the

request to the person who moved the

motion which I believe is councilwoman

green she has to accept that um and

otherwise you can vote on the motion and

then afterwards there going to be other

motions on the same

topic so I would say to vice president

green and Council uh president Daniels I

mean yeah ours um where my Amendment at

7even you know um I think you see I'm

somewhere in between there and not the

proposed I think it was 9 10 I don't

know what number it was but it was a

pretty significant hike in that so I'm

somewhere in between those two numbers

so I don't two and

five um I think looking just kind of

doing rough calculations but um Council

woman Daniel's proposal to match it to

um the salary of the yes tax

enforcement uh administrator will come

out to about a 4% raise um and it

essentially will make up for the 2% that

wasn't given last year and then a 2%

this year um so I don't know if if uh

anyone will be aable to that or if we'd

look at just 2% or um I'm open I'm open

to suggestions um from the body and

general and that would be where my

numbers is it lies within that that

number that she I didn't I just didn't

look at the the total uh uh dollar

amount but that percentage seems about

where I would be in between two to 4% I

think the dollar is

9275 yeah I see the dollar amount but

I'm saying when I was thinking of this I

was percent right

yeah it sounds like we have to

vote vote number two down and move to

nine for amend number two okay um if if

anyone wants to propose an amendment for

number two um since I made this motion I

don't think I should make the amendment

you could also withdraw the motion all

right you get withdraw in

it um I do have to make a motion to I'd

like to withdraw amendment number

two I just say that nobody has to agree

with it okay we're making it up as we go

along so it's all right

sir all right moving forward uh

amendment number three would be to

please strike the oh excuse me I make a

motion to amend the 2025 proposed budget

for the department of building and

housing by eliminating the general

funding and the proposed 2025 budget

under the salaries and wages for the

position of interm director for building

and Housing

Development I need a

second I second the motion thank you uh

any discussion

I don't know why I'm whispering that

doesn't um go with coincide with number

one though right because I think you

made a a motion up there no it doesn't

it's different okay so amendment number

one was strictly for the mayor staff is

in the mayor's office um this one is for

the interim director for building and

Housing Development um I proposed this

amendment as well um for a number of

reasons I think there was still

confusion around the title is it interim

or director uh we clarified that it's

interim um in

the city ordinance for

directors

and um the mayor's appointment of it's

noted as an acting director and that

individual um can only serve in the

acting capacity

for no more than 120 days so I think

that we've discussed the length of time

that this interm director has been in

service to the city and we know that um

this is about

10.8% of the uh director's full salary

because the remainder is housed in one

of the other funds cdbg it's it's cdbg

funds um

yep so that's my rationale I mean we've

invited her we tried she was the only

director that did not participate uh

with the PowerPoint presentations and

making a smooth

presentation um that assisted with our

budget hearings um we've invited her

several times um we look forward to

extending another invitation in the new

year to discuss the arpa funding

programs that are under

uh the purview of the building and

Housing Development Department um so I

think that uh and then on the the

business development

side

um to find an economic development draft

plan to be inaccurate was just baffling

to me too uh so that's why I offered the

amendment um that's all I think um I

would agree with it not for purposes of

the title but for purposes of the

substance of the work um my apologies um

you know the cdbg fund proposal was

supposed to already have been ready um

for that that is not ready I also

thought that um knowing that the

proposal was that lorda would need to be

upgraded I would have preferred to see

some substantive effort there rather

than just simply ual knowing that it

wasn't working and similarly with the

business plan if you if there isn't so I

feel like there was just not much work

done and maybe it's not the intent that

that work will be done by the

interim and so it's so I I think this

the cut is warranted given the amount of

work that's been

done

May thank

you and I agree uh with councilwoman

Daniels not for the title but for the

work that has been done and we have to

remember that uh director

Roberts just got here not long ago I

mean a lot of the things that took place

in terms of the um economic or the

economic business

development that was already created or

not created prior to her getting here so

I mean she as she stated has her hands

full

and has already made some corrections

with working with HUD and trying to

um uh cover or make up for mistakes that

have been made with the last director so

I would be willing to um negotiate

the the

increase not to 10.8% but

um something because remember

she is really clean has really been

cleaning up a lot of the mess that has

taken place so we weren't

aware we weren't aware of any although

there was a a little discussion um

during her her time in front of us about

um some of the efforts that she had been

face with in order to clean up um what

was left behind um I will say that um

the previous director Mr Denise Hill um

from everything I see seen did a

wonderful job um got a lot of things on

track so uh I'm not in the department so

I can't see exactly what it is to be

seen but I will say sometimes work

speaks for itself um and I will say that

the interim director did note that we

got the the largest um allocation for

the the

um what is it lead remediation funds um

and if it was such a mess I don't see

why they they would give us um the

largest allocation or why the state

would come to us to ask us to help

administer their Leed funding so um I

I'm not in the department to see exactly

what it was to clean up but um from the

the work that I've seen and the results

that have come forth um I I can't I

can't in good conscience believe that it

was such a mess um so that's just my my

kind of comment on that as far as the

amendment itself

um and and removing the portion that's

in the general fund um I might just note

that um when the interim director was

here and uh doing some of the the

presentation for the two departments

that she is over top of I believe she

said as far as building and housing um

they had absolutely no funds from the

from the general fund um so I would

agree that there are no funds from the

general

fund yeah would I would I would support

the motion um simply because of a lot of

the things that were um stated as well

and um the laor of to to face Council

when we we we have questions that we

need to ask and answer and especially

when we're dealing with our constituents

um they're not getting the services that

that they need and to go back to the

previous administration I mean the

previous director

um I I concur with council president and

vice president

uh that that Denise Hill you know she

had this thing rolling it seems to be

not this many issues if they were they

were internal and they kept them there

but for the most Parts I think those

Services were rolling so you know um

stand firmly behind Council president's

notion I will also note that um there

were some things requested from uh the

department of building and housing that

weren't provided um that do come out of

the general fund um which specifically

are the the arpa dollars that are

sitting in the general fund because they

were covered as revenue recovery um

therefore they are sitting in the

general fund um and we uh sent another

request um after the the conversation

with the interim director um at the

budget hearings we sent another request

specifically outlining each individual

program the amount allocated and what we

were requesting um specifically

affordable housing Pro program the for

$8 million the tree removal program

500,000 home repairs um delinquent

refuges replacing the South Harrisburg

pool every single item that was listed

out um and the legislation just asking

for a brief update um of all those and I

do not believe we received those um and

that was sent at least four days ago so

um just kind of an an update as to what

we did request and we did try to make

sure it was very specific uh because it

did seem like it was maybe some

confusion as to to what programs we were

talking about when we asked about when

when uh they were presenting that night

so you're exactly right vice president

green we didn't get those items you just

mentioned um in terms of the uh

TLC funds and then the other company I

can't remember who that was um I think

director Roberts mentioned speaking with

HUD because the city owes them monies

and so she's working

trying to resolve the

unresolved issue with that but yes I

agree there were a number of items that

we asked for that we did not receive

so Madam chair just two points of

clarification if we may one is I'm sorry

m is m r saying something I don't I it

was but I'll wait for your clarification

um for listen to to over that's okay I

I'm just trying to be clear as the way

this is is laid out in the budget that

would eliminate all salary for the

interim director under uh building and

Housing Development am I correct that's

what the intention is I I believe that

was the intention so this gets to the

second clarification which is a little

sticky

um that would leave the position with no

no salary and under the federal funds

you are prohibited from doing work on

something and being paid for something

at our federal funds the portion of

which is not under their programs so it

will take an adjustment I just don't

know what that adjustment will be for

who would be able to perform those

services but you cannot under you have

you report back on the federal funds on

Administration for the work that you're

doing which is why it was originally

divided the way it was um and uh and and

frankly I don't see those reports I

don't know those reports I just know

that that's the requirement that that's

why each person who Works in that

department paid by federal funds they

have to document that the what what

they're working on is the federal

programs because you see that somewhere

in writing it's under the HUD

regulations I can't do that off the top

of my head but was that bill would that

be Bill three or something like that

under the HUD no no it's it's just the

HUD regulation it's Federal yeah it's

the code of Federal Regulation I would

like to see that because yeah I would

like to see that okay we can get there

for you I can't get it sitting here but

I don't know what we do with this until

then but no I I I I just say I think

what will probably happen is you'll

probably have to visit this issue early

in the year the mayor would have to make

some decisions about how to assign the

work but we would be in violation of the

federal rules if we're paying using the

federal program money that's allowed for

administration to administer nonfederal

program so it's I'm just I'm just

letting you know that that's part of the

what happens and that will be if we

eliminate the entirety of the funding

yes but what if you eliminate 95% of the

f I don't have a good answer to that I I

I'm just giving you this is the this is

sort of and and when this was first

proposed it was 2022 if you remember

when we combined the two positions and

that's how you came up with the division

of how many dollars were Federal and how

many were not and why they were that way

um so uh so you know that is the

reporting part I'm just telling you

that's that issue will come back some

way to both the administration and then

the council uh in 2025 to sort it

through and the city be bill should be

coming down pretty soon so maybe we

could revisit it then sure that I mean

that would be that would be a good place

to revisit it making decision today yes

I'm just I'm just letting you if you're

making decision then some of the work

supervision I think would end up being

delegated to someone else to do in the

administration okay so you know

so any other questions comments

discussion uh for Amendment

three proposed amendment three excuse me

um um um May I just comment on that I

just want to be sure I think Neil thank

you Neil I think he answered it so in in

this general fund budget line for that

position's salary there's there's an

allocation so you're you're proposing to

eliminate it down to zero is that is

that

correct yes you are okay all right thank

you wouldn't that leave us would that

leave us without an intern director or

no her salary majority of her salary is

um funded through uh another fund

um it's uh 10.8% of of her salary it's

funded through

here right it's it's it's not just the

increase it's the full allocation that's

been proposed yes right and and you're

correct yeah the work is is as president

Bowers mentioned the the allocation I

think cuts across HUD money involving uh

cdbg money and and the home program as

well as the um emergency Solutions Grant

that's that's all handled by by

dbhd all right any other questions

comments concerns um I I did but uh

solicitor gr well good evening everybody

um residents and council members and

everybody I I did have a question but um

after after what siss Grover said I'm

kind of more concerned about how that

looks as he spoke about with the federal

funds um my only I I am in support of

amendment number three because um I know

it's an interim acting position which I

see more as a consulting position and

getting paid as such not a full

salary um as if it's a career because

it's just Consulting to me and getting

keeping something in order until that

position was fail by full-time employee

so that's what concern is with giving

the entire Sal salary as if it is

um you know Miss Martin P's career or

Rob's career so uh I guess I need to see

what this language says um before I can

kind of vote because I'm just a bit

concerned um and then I guess just kind

of like a clarification question so that

10.8% is that what was supposed to be

our community our our community

economics director salary that is what's

supposed to be the community and

economic director s because building and

housing is in fact what what runs the

federal programs um and then just kind

of to that and I guess circling back to

2022 uh when we originally had this

discussion um as far as combining the

two positions um I will say I believe

majority of council uh questioned and

had concerns about cons uh consolidating

the position because we didn't want a

community economic development director

that was only working 10% as a community

economic development director excuse me

um because we knew that that was a very

vital role for the city and I feel like

because of the position being combined

um a majority 90% or 89.2% of the work

going towards HUD um and building and

housing uh we've kind of left oursel

with that 10% result which is not having

a um Community economic development plan

which not having that economic planning

for the future of the city of Harrisburg

and I think it's time we revisit that uh

because I don't think that that's moving

Us in the direction that we need to go

to create that sustainable future for

the city of Harrisburg so I would

support

this any other questions or

comments seeing none

um it's been moved it's been seconded

and I would only say based on Miss R's

uh question you might want to read the

language out loud one more time

all right so the motion reads as follows

I make a motion to amend the 2025

proposed budget for the department of

building and housing by eliminating the

general fund funding in the proposed

2025 budget under salaries and wages for

the position of interm director for

building and Housing

Development um it was technically moved

by me and I believe seconded by

President Bowers

any questions or concerns before we move

to a

vote Mr trusel could you call the vote

Miss Daniels

yes Miss

green it's usually Miss Davis but yes oh

it's messed up

on Miss Davis

yes Mr Jones

yay Miss

Rose yes

Mr Rodriguez yes Miss Bowers yes

Amendment three passes by vote a 7even

to

zero thank you uh moving on to proposed

amendment number four please add the

$10,000 allocation for the senior

advisor and Junior advisor sorry I'm I'm

reading I'm supposed to read the red and

I'm reading the black so forgive

me um I make a motion to amend the 2025

proposed budget for the city council by

increasing the proposed 2025 budget

under salaries and wages by the sum of

$10,000 to provide for part-time

advisers to assist with the youth

commission I second the

motion it's been moved in second um

would anybody like to

discuss yes I offered this amendment to

ensure uh well earlier this year we had

had a reallocation for those two roles

so I just wanted to ensure that the

funding was available so that we could

uh jump start and Revive Our Youth

commission thank you any other questions

comments discussion Just One technical

issue uh M chair just hope everybody

supports

it thank

you as you may remember from that from

that gripping uh budget primer we

prepared uh increase vote requires a

two-thirds majority of the council

anytime there's a vote to increase a

budget

alignment under Section 418 of the

optional third clity Charter La thank

you that's

five any other questions

comments seeing none Mr truo could you

call the

vote Miss Daniels yes Miss Davis

yes Miss Green

yes Mr Jones yay Miss

Rose yes Mr Rodriguez yes Miss bers yes

Amendment four passes by vote a 7 to

zero thank you uh moving to uh amendment

number

five um did we still want to do this

amendment well I don't I was about say

since the other one passed it's it's

pretty like doesn't all right you don't

have to do it moving to amendment number

six I make a motion to amend the 2025

proposed budget for the Bureau of police

by eliminating the proposed funding for

the 2025 budget under salaries and wages

for the position of director of

community engagement and

relations do I have a

second

second it's been moved in second uh is

there any

discussion well for me um this is one of

my amendments and um you know just

looking at the the CSA division um a lot

of controversy in this in this

department um for a plethora of reasons

but um since the the vacany vacany the

vacancy of the previous um director in

that position it seems to be by the

owner mission of the CID dep Department

that this this division has been moving

pretty pretty well at the moment and I

don't see a need for us to spend um any

more tax dollars in this in this

direction so that's where I

stand thank you um I would say that

um I think it's pretty well known that

last year I I was the one who uh who

made the motion to uh eliminate this

position um because I felt like the work

was kind of repetitive um that it was

being done um in the department already

and that um it was kind of a workaround

that was already completed um and that

this position didn't seem like it was

necessary last year um I will say that

this position's been vacant for some

time this year and it does seem like the

program is uh continuing to operate um

uh I do have other questions as far as

uh the the CSA division is is a totality

uh but I think that's something that we

should work through this year I would

still offer the thought that CSA should

not just be housed in the police

department but that they might be better

utilized um throughout different

departments in the city uh such as csas

for the Communications Department for

the Parks and Rec Department instead of

just being under the police department

because I do feel like in a lot of ways

they're becoming um Junior police

officers um and I will say as far as the

new uniforms uh I do like the fact that

it's changed but to me they look like

Park Rangers now and so I think that

still needs to be uh civilianized even a

little more I like khakis and polos uh

to be honest um but that's something

that I think was the original outfits

right khakis yes khakis and polos were

the original outfit um and so I think

that's something that can be worked

worked out throughout the year and so

that's not not part of uh this this

portion here but I just thought a

comment that I I would like to be known

but um I would I would agree with with

this amendment um in order to make for

sure the department is running as

efficiently as

possible any other questions comments

thoughts I I will note just so it's

there I believe during the budget

presentation there was a representation

made that a person had been offered the

position and has a start date later this

month I'm just I but gotcha

so um any other questions comments um or

discussion regarding this proposed

amendment I'll just kind of echo what

you're saying and I think um the whole

the division needs to be Revisited

because I worry that without the role it

continues down the path of being Junior

police officers but at the same time we

don't it's been vacant we don't know

what we're doing with the division and

also think that their revenues are

overestimated so I'm fine with the

cut thank you I just want to add um um

Echo off of um councilwoman Daniels um I

definitely support eliminating it

um uh solic Grover thank you for

reminding us that somebody had been

hired apologies to them but you know

before they came I do feel like there

was a lot of work that needs to be done

in that department I think the work is

repetitive um and I think the um the

officer who is currently a part of um

that division can defin definely be able

to to continue with that work so um I'm

in support of this amendment thank you I

have one final comment I did want to

note that we did receive information I

think that the csa's participated in 56

or 56 events uh throughout the year so I

did want to note that we did receive

that um

information thank you um and I will note

um thank you solicitor Grover for for um

reminding us of that um I will say with

this position being

uh such a point of conversation last

year um and then with it being vacant

all the way up

until after the budget technically um

that it almost seems a little

irresponsible um to look to fill that

position knowing this discussion was I

would say that you could have seen this

discussion forthcoming um since it was

such a big discussion last year so I

don't think it would have been

surprising for us to have this

discussion again um because I think

every year since

the turnover of that position uh with

the CSA program we've had discussions

about where is the program going what is

the goal of the program can we get an

outline of what you really plan on doing

this year what is the value this program

is looking to bring um I believe all the

way up until last year and even

throughout last year's budget hearings

we referred to it as a pilot program

until cicer Grover corrected us that um

through negotiations it is no longer a

pilot program these are negotiated

positions and so it's no longer a pilot

program it is just a division in the

police department um so I would say that

um although uh it is unfortunate um that

that discussions had been had and and a

position was offered to someone um that

it's wasn't the most responsible choice

to make knowing the time of year it was

if it was January 1st that you had this

discussion and made this offer that

would be one thing but um knowing that

the position's been vacant I would like

the I believe majority of the year um

and then to make this make this hiring

uh you know or make this offer um less

than a month before the the budget um

discussion uh I think that it just

wasn't the best choice and so

unfortunately um I I do support this um

as I supported it last

year and any questions or

comments seeing none um Mr Trel could

you call the vote Miss

Daniels yes Miss Davis

yes Miss green yes Mr Jones yay Miss

Rose yes Mr Rodriguez yes Miss Bowers

yes Amendment Six passes by a vote of

seven to zero

thank you um moving on to amendment

number what will be amendment number six

now yes um I make a

motion okay this one has gaps in it I

was that's you can skip that one we're

going to do this we're going to hold off

on this one and bring it back at the end

I don't okay you don't you could just

skip it because it's being addressed in

another one so that was my motion as

well but okay

all right moving on to amendment number

six all right I make a motion to amend

the 2025 proposed budget for All

non-bargaining Personnel by adjusting

any raises exceeding 2% to receive a

3.5% wage increase in the proposed 2025

budget under salaries and wages is there

a

second

second it's been moved in second is

there any discussion

you talk to you this was my Amendment so

I'll just you know speak on it a little

bit um hoping to get Council support

um my main reason for um saying 3.5% was

just looking at some of the bargain

units and seeing that that was some of

their raises for the employees and

trying to keep that morale within the

department and having the directors or

managers um within that same race

uh my other uh thought was um I

definitely thought 13 8% raises were a

little excessive especially when there's

so much other things that need to be

done in the city especially when it

comes to youth programming and what is

going on in our city right now um

there's not a lot of opportunities for

them um and when you give people more

opportunities you allow them to see

themselves in a different way you allow

them to dream and I feel like a lot of

our youth have lost that because the

lack of opportunity especially when it

comes to sports um and I felt like if we

could try to take some of um instead of

the excessive raises um find a way to

place that money in the host fee um

whatever amount we're allowed to do

legally and be able to assist and

starting um a Harrisburg City uh Sports

Association where we uh collaborate with

the school district District eventually

with the county and start giving our uh

students in this community more

opportunities to dream to see themselves

and to be able to uh see the places that

they can go so that was my um thought

process um to this amendment and I hope

I can get support from Council on this

thank you thank you very much um I will

say that um I do agree with with this

motion um and a large reason why I agree

with this motion is because um we've

been asking

for three and a half years at least a

good three years um for very clear

performance metrics that tied to the

raises um instead of their just being

you know they're doing a great job let's

give them 20% I don't really know them

that well just give them the 2% um you

know it's just sometimes it just can

seem so arbitrary um and though although

I know um there was discussion that

there there have been some

performance discussions had throughout

the year by supervisors with their

employees um there is nothing that is

across the board uh there is nothing

that desdes the performance metrics to

the raises and I think that that

standard needs to be set throughout uh

the city to make for sure that moving

forward uh there is a clear system on

how raises are done uh not that well you

know you seem like you've got some extra

duties added um and so we'll go ahead

and change things up and and what do we

think would might might a better fit for

your position now what should we call

you now um and let's look up some

salaries for that and and get you um

something that matches that better so I

think because um there is no clear

metrics to to show how our raises are

done um I don't think it's fair to all

employees um that if I ask my supervisor

for a raise of 20% and they go yeah you

have been a really good job doing a

really good job um but someone else

doesn't feel comfortable asking for a

20% raise um they just don't get it um

I think uh I kind of had a little

conversation with councilman Jones

before the meeting um he didn't know

that he could ask for a Chick-fil-A

Sandwich he thought that he could only

get the Nuggets that everybody else was

getting um but it kind of spoke to that

same thing right that if you don't know

that that's an option if I don't know

it's an option to ask for a 20 30 40%

raise then I'm not going to ask for it

um because most jobs um and most

businesses run on more of a standard

where it's not an option to just ask for

an arbitrary increase because you know I

feel like I worked real hard this year

um then I I don't think that we should

just have that um in a in a city that's

supposed to be running as a business so

I think that once we get those standards

in place then we'll be able to back up

the these raises a lot better um but for

for now I would have to agree with

this I also think from the budget

hearing presentation that was offered by

the Bureau of Human

Resources um we were successful with the

implementation of the performance

evaluation so that's one layer so that

that is a win however um there is there

there was this year a

self um a self-reporting

evaluation that occurred and then a

discussion or meeting with the

supervisor um and in other

presentations that um managers or

Command Staff felt that um

employees were deserving right of these

um large raises those staffers basically

wrote their own evaluation and shared it

with us rather than so I think there's a

miscommunication there between I don't

know if it's the the supervisor and

human resources and updating in

accurately updating the job descriptions

so something is formalized um or if it's

just the EMP employee being bold and

saying this is what I've done since the

beginning of the year and this merits AR

raise so I I I'm not sure where the

miscommunication is but I did um find

that questionable during the

discussions how many salaries are these

Al

together um I can't tell you the number

altogether I can tell you there were at

least four in the police department know

I think six in the police department I

know um if you include management most

of the directors gave themselves a 4%

raise so that would drop that down to

3.5% um which matches the bargaining

unit as well if if my memory there is a

document in the front of your budget

book that list all the

positions um that are affected it's it's

literally in the little slot in the

front

yes it says 2025 budget book Personnel

change notes

it's it's 22 positions not counting the

treasurer's

office yeah chair chair green yes may I

ask just a question for

clarification maybe I heard you wrong

when when you read that did you say

non-uniform CBA from 2% to

3.5% yes or non bargaining Personnel

okay management are you you referring to

management that's what that's what threw

me okay so that's that's management

employees um throughout throughout the

budget where you're setting I'm sorry if

I'm reciting but you're you're setting

any increase at

3.5% any increase that exceeds 2% oh

okay so if you already if you if you're

okay anything in excess of two but then

I guess that is kind of unfair then

right because then if I only ask for 2%

now I don't get 3.5% but because you ask

for 10% you get

3.5% does that make sense so like for

instance

um if an employee just St if if a

department if a a management Personnel

um just stuck with the cross theboard 2%

raise for thems um they would not exceed

that 2% therefore they wouldn't trigger

to receive a 3.5% increase compared to

management Personnel that ask for a 4%

raise now they would get a 3.5%

raise so we could just make a 3.5 across

the board would be my suggestion but

that does then require you're going to

be here on require us to have to to um

to go go throughout the budget so um I'm

just going to leave this one where it is

so if U please forgive me just to repeat

again there are certain salary uh

dollars for these positions right now

that are at 2% or we're we're higher

than that for the ones that are higher

than than

2% they should be they should they

should go to

3.5%

yes okay bring right up

to yeah because I think some of them are

already getting a 2% raise correct I

think I think the thought is if there is

anything in excess of 2% it's beyond

3.5% yes it is so you want to pull that

back to and ke and St to yes nothing

nothing right nothing Beyond

3.5 yes I believe during one of the

presentations um I believe it may have

been the police department's

presentation um I think the discussion

that they had or the comment that they

had was that um there was a 4% request

because um the bargaining unit members

were getting a

3.5% uh increase and you had they had to

get those though right right but what

I'm saying is I believe that was the

ration now for why they requested 4% per

management because um the bargaining

unit was getting 3.5% so if they just

got 2% across the board they were

getting less of a raise in the

management uh the bargain unit so I

believe that was their rationale on how

they came up with the 4% increase

request and I think it was also that

you're encouraging people to become

management because you do

better although you're losing your

overtime the minute you do it so but

that I think overtime was a little high

anyway right but I'm saying your right

to be overtime as a manager doesn't

exist so if an officer steps into that

role either for fire police they're at a

fixed number that that's what happens as

opposed to the rest of them so gotcha

great but I was I I would say your

motion goes directly to this the first

two pages of this list yes which says

management positions above 2% are the

ones you're talking about right right

any other conversation questions

discussion regarding amendment number

six

no so should it note in here excluding

the treasurer's office well that's going

to be the next Amendment yeah that's

going to be y so that Amendment of the

amending this

amendment so do we want to note it or

no so chair green just to Circle back

what you're what you're referring to uh

Deputy Treasurer would be non-

bargaining unit correct management

position correct so uh an example where

the current proposed increase exceeds

3.5% so we want the the idea is to pull

that back to 3.5% exactly right can you

can you run a number on me for me how

much would that

be because if if my calculations are

right the next amendment makes it 4% and

so if you're fine with it being 3.5

instead of four I mean or you want to

line it up so I think if we pass this

amendment then her salary is 3.5 but

then the next Amendment

overrides this one so we have to stay at

the

3.5 we could we could if it if it passes

it moves moves it up to 4% if it doesn't

then it stays at 3.5 yeah exactly if

everybody's so the next Amendment

proposed um if my calculations are

correct it will be a 4% increase from

her current salary um so if amendment

number six

passes then it moves up to

3.5% if amendment number seven would

pass it would move the deputy Treasurer

salary up 4% but if it doesn't pass then

it moves it up

3.5% okay so if we vote that one down

the one Shain is uh proposing right her

Amendment we vote that down it goes to

3.5 it yes I got you because this

amendment here would be it's 3.5 and so

it doesn't undermine I got

you I guess I just have one more

question

so given the discussion

about the performance

evaluations and um

I guess the uncertainty of really what's

happening uh in the Departments or

buos how do we arrive at the 3.5 is it

simply to maintain

[Music]

morale rather than just the

2% for me my thought was and I mean I

proposed this amendment but I didn't

come up with it um but when reading this

amendment um to me uh it aligned it with

the the raises that are required for the

bargaining unit which was 3.5% so this

matches um the raises that the rest of

the department will be getting right and

for me um I was I was in under the same

impression but I also was looking at and

that's why I scratched that um Amendment

s um I scratched that because I was like

you know there may be some to council I

mean vice president Green's uh point

that maybe some individuals that really

deserve it and didn't ask and we

couldn't bring them up so I'm like

what's a good number to you know and

just not to not give them anything I

definitely wanted to make sure that they

are um taking care of and sure it will

help them arrive us give people a little

bit more money but that's where I that's

where I was but um I think the 3.52 was

just based off of what was already

supposed to be giving to

the bar Union yet now I will um just

kind of ask a question because um we we

voted on um I don't know if they're not

management I don't think but they're not

bargaining members um and the mayor's

office we um the first amendment was

to scratch the 2% increase if we would

then give everybody who's not a

bargaining unit member a 3.5% increase

does that include

them I don't think your microphone is on

I I apologize right now as I understand

the amendment you've proposed is anyone

one in the budget in management that the

proposed increase is above 2% it'll be

it'll be 3.5% across the board for those

individuals those individuals are the

ones on the list that was provided at

the beginning of the budget book okay

which is a total of 23 positions all

right that's right because it said above

2% all right just making sure I didn't

want to make for sure we were going back

and and undoing

it it did but then if we made an

amendment later that included them

it would but it's the 2% part so all

right for the benefit of people either

watching or listening can we note the 23

positions that would be

impacted for reference read

it or Mr Trel will you read it oh it's

all right you have it in your

hand all right uh the procurement

services and compliance manager that's

in the finance department the payroll

manager in the HR department codes

administrator codes Department Deputy

codes administrator in the codes

Department administrative data analyst

in the codes Department the police

commissioner police Bureau Deputy police

chief police Bureau Police Captain

police

Bureau uh captain of Technical Services

police Bureau the police captain of upd

police

Bureau uh police captain of community

services police

Bureau Special Assistant to Police

Commissioner police

[Music]

Bureau all right confidential secretary

to deputy chief police Bureau crime

analyst police Bureau crime analyst

police Bureau accreditation manager

police Bureau substation manager police

Bureau Court Li leison and special

events coordinator police Bureau deputy

chief Bureau fire senior deputy chief

Bureau of fire deputy chief Bureau of

fire and then traffic signal and street

light manager uh traffic and

Engineering thank you

that's thank you is there any other

discussion um that anyone would like to

have on amendment number six can I make

a comment please please feel free

whenever you negotiate a CBA agreement

Collective bargain agreement whoever's

on that that that negotiating team you

should try to you should try to separate

them from I'm sorry I can't hear what um

is being that is very so I

can't whenever you have a negotiating

team with a collective Orgain agreement

anybody on that team should be separated

from the conditions and Provisions of a

collective bargain agreement if you do

not then you're actually negotiating

your your management team would be

negotiating against themselves so when

you're tying management some management

positions to the raise in the CP you're

actually hurting yourself so just want

to point that out because we are

entering into

negotiating into two contracts for next

year so you're actually starting

probably with a strike against you

already so I just wanted to add that if

you weren't aware of

that thank thank you very much excuse me

it's not particularly funny by the way

Excuse excuse me do you know me sir yes

I do I think your sarcasm is a bit

extreme wasn't sarcastic at all right I

don't think this is the time or place

for it we can have this discussion after

the meeting on a one1 basis like to be

more conversation on how we communicate

with each other um in the meantime we

will continue with amendment number six

um I do appreciate the comments from the

administration as well as all of council

members if there isn't any other

discussion vice president green ask a

question what two contracts were you

refer what two contracts were you were

OH police and fire okay I thought so I

just wanted to make sure it it's asks me

and

police chair green can I'm sorry just

want uh for my

own uh thoughts on this um so the the

the list that Jared just read those are

the positions then uh tying to the

3.5% just and just those only well the

next Amendment might change one of them

as far as where we are right now at this

moment that's I'm I'm interpreting that

correctly I believe yes okay just the

positions that were read off by U Mr

Chell perfect okay thank you very

much any other questions or comments I

seeing no questions or comments um Mr

trell if you could uh call the

vote Miss Daniels yes Miss Davis yes

Miss green yes Mr Jones yay Miss

Rose yes Mr Rodriguez yes Miss Bowers

yes amendment five passes by vote a

seven to zero

no I think you're I think we were one

ahead I have five we were

moved we're on Amendment eight on the

sheet and then we had removed two three

four five no this is six uh amendment

number one was to strike to 2% increase

am and that passed um four to three

amendment number two was noted as

amendment number three on the sheet and

that passed 7 to zero amendment number

three is noted as amendment number four

on a sheet and that pass seven to

zero amendment number five is noted as

amendment number six on the sheet and

that passed uh 7 to zero we skipped

seven and then amendment number six is

noted as amendment number eight on the

sheet and that has just passed seven to

zero so we skipped on the sheet

amendment number

two and then on the sheet we skipped

number

five and then on the sheet we skipped

number seven

so it's number

five three no four two was what drawn in

seven was y five five you're that's what

I

said all

[Music]

right amendment

number

six that was ter was really number five

we just said it was number six

but we're now on to amendment number

nine which will be amendment number

six all right I make a motion to amend

the

2025 proposed budget for the office of

the city treasurer by adjusting the

proposed 2025 budget under salaries and

wages for the position of Deputy treasur

to align with the tax enforcement

administrator with a salary of

$927 is there second second it's been

moved and second is there any

discussion think we discussed 2075 sorry

yeah I just want everyone to know at the

3.5% it's

9152 it's pretty much the same thing

yeah so this would um would align it

with um a position that has similar

duties in another department uh and

essentially give it give the position a

4% raise of um essentially making up for

the raise that didn't happen last year

and then accounting for a 2% raise this

year uh coming up to an

$927 is the

salary this will be amendment number six

um and I will say

um although I do not agree with uh the

operations of the treasurer's office um

I do not agree with the hours um of the

treasurer's office um and I think there

are a lot of things that need to be

changed um and I don't agree with

sending memos saying I'll open up if you

give us these raises um I will note that

that that all has come from the city

treasurer himself um and not the deputy

treasure uh who does run the day-to-day

operations um I would

ask suggest and uh implore the deputy

Treasurer maybe uh to find more creative

ways if uh she's following the direction

of her boss who's telling her you know

not opening the office um all day maybe

looking for more creative ways to ensure

that um the public can be served because

I I think just sitting back and going

well this is when he say it's open so

this is when it's open um isn't really a

service to the city residents either I

mean there are

entire businesses that run without

people there um there are machines that

could be put out front that people can

make payments and get uh immediate

receipts but it seems like there's been

no idea or even thought into how things

can be innovated to serve the residents

of Harrisburg and it's just kind of been

this standoff um first the standoff well

let's let's be honest to started with Co

well we can close the office and then

once we got used to that it was like

open it back up for who um then it

became well annual billing and we'll

open it if you don't pass annual billing

we're not opening up for full time then

it became well if we get another um

another position because we need this

position to ensure that someone can be

at the front desk because uh because of

the bargaining unit we can't have the

deputy treasure at the front desk and so

we need someone there to make sure it's

open we um we added that position that

position then wasn't filled for the

entirety of the year um and when we

asked why it was kind of like oh well

well uh we're going to work on that um

and now it's kind of like oh well raise

or we don't open and it just kind of

feels like it's always this game of do

this or we don't open but it's the

residents who suffer um and let's not

forget we're all residents as well we're

all taxpayers as well so when I have to

go online and pay a

2.5% fee if I can get it to accept me

online to pay my parking ticket cuz that

doesn't always work um or if I come down

here and well I didn't get out in time

and so I'm here at 3:00 and so now the

parking ticket goes from $30 to $50 we

all feel that impact too we get all the

calls from residents who are going

through these issues and looking to us

for help and um the most we can say is

well when the time's up V him out um

that doesn't you know it doesn't really

help them in the meantime and they're

the ones to suffering so I would implore

the deputy treasur maybe to step up and

find different ways to ensure the

residents can be served because uh just

saying you know I'm doing what my boss

says um is is essentially an excuse um

when we're talking about year after year

after year and so um I look for the

treasur office as well as the

administration to look for different

ways to make sure the residents can be

served um because we've seen how it's

impacting other departments as well so

um I agree that um that you know the

cost of living continues to go up and um

and everyone feels that impact and so I

understand the need for for people's

salaries to increase as well but um I

think just falling back on you know the

office closes at 2:30 and it's easier

for me so I'm not really looking for

ways to to serve the public any better

um whether or not you know that impacts

you personally whether you live here or

not that I don't know um but it kind of

feels like a oh well not really my

problem type thing until it's time for

for budgets to to come down and salaries

are impacted then all of a sudden you

know everyone has something to say

um and all of a sudden we can figure out

ways to open the office up if you do

what we want um that's just a hostage

situation that I'm I'm not agreeable to

so that's just kind of my My overall

thoughts on the whole

situation I'll be voting no I think I

shared my thoughts earlier but I failed

to mention that um there is a small

Revenue that the city is losing that was

mentioned by the business and tax office

due to the Limited

so I think it's a it's a lose lose

situation on all sides and I think that

um imploring the deputy Treasurer to

speak up or to um be forceful probably

won't work um I think she's had prime

opportunity to do so and she too uh

wrote her own job description glowing of

all the things that she's done so I'll

just be voting no and that's that and I

and I don't agree with the memo that we

received from the treasur related to

this uh salary increase in

appropriation any other questions

comments thoughts

um yeah uh I would just say that um I

agree um with the language in that uh

memo could have been well was offensive

to my colleagues um

however uh in the residence yeah true

but they didn't see

it

um uh yeah like I said I don't know the

level I guess this is the level of the

increase I'm listening to uh vice

president green I think we're above

Maybe by $1,000 give or take um by giv

her that that four um making up for the

year previous um and of course I wasn't

here at that moment so I'm not sure why

she didn't get the increase at that

point

reason all right yeah

um yeah I just think that again some

type of raise I guess we missed the

opportunity on the on

the other uh amendment to kind of

adjust but you know I will support it um

just in just in just for the simple

reason that I believe she can um

deserves a raise if she's going to and I

know you my colleagues don't like that

language but if she's going to step up

to the plate and do that um know at

least a 2% raise in my

opinion thank you could I ask just for a

clarification Madam chair um uh the

treasurer's position the deputy was on

the list but was not read is the

intention that that prior vote on the

prior Amendment did not include the 3.5

to that position that's yes

so so at the moment that it's still

where at the moment the raise is still

like $88,000 or something like that as

of right now whatever was in the budget

okay is is the current

raise um but I will note

that although these are the

amendments that were were um sent in

beforehand that does not stop anyone

from making amendments from the floor

like there are like there's still plenty

time

like don't feel like it's over after

this you can make any I just want to be

clear because that's why I asked it

earlier that if this one was voted down

and still would be at the 3.5 that we

proposed or no no because we didn't

include it in that original list and the

and the list that was read it wasn't

included because um uh the discussion

was well the amendment following

addresses this and so as of right now

it's the the current Rise um there can

be an amendment

later on if anyone would like to make it

to make it a 2% raise to make it 0%

raise to make it whatever um whatever

befits you so like I think so right now

the proposal is

97 what's in the budget is 97 right yes

what's in the the current budget is is

$997,000 to be the the salary um this

motion is for it to be 92

92,7 any other um

comments or

discussion yes I have a question does

that include a raise that

92,000 the 92,000 will be a 4%

raise roughly a 4% raise don't don't say

it's exactly it might be

3.97 but it's about a 4% raise

okay and so we are the motion is to the

motion is to uh change the to increase

the salary to make it align with the

deputy excuse me with the tax

enforcement administrator with a salary

of

92,7 any other questions comments

thoughts discussion so I just wanted to

add some sentiments to it as far as I

can remember in my work history raises

are given based off of performance the

better you do in any field of course

your bosses will give you a raise the

administration would praise you and

you're bringing in you generating great

you know income for the

organization entity or company It's just

sometimes I think we agree on raises

just to kind of give that wink in a gun

and I don't think we owe that to anyone

I think we owe the residents and it's

just my two cents this body is a body

that hasn't even asked for a rais in 15

18 years and we truck away every day and

you know I don't even think we're

looking for that and I don't think

anyone in this council is kicking and

screaming but to be fair you know and

we're not saying what we're old to and

what we should get right I think what's

fair is fair and I think the main

objective whether it's Administration or

legislative body is getting the services

the residents deserve how we reach that

goal that's when the compromise comes in

but if we're not reaching that goal why

are we even considering races that's

just my two

cents thank you any other comments

questions I was just a little confused

vice president green so is this motion

going to give her a raise yes

this this motion would give her a 4%

raise so um I believe the current salary

is like

88,000 the current salary is $884

3934

$884

34 right and it would change it to

92,7 that would be a

4.1% a 4.1% raise

is there they yes they asked for um

about 5,000 more than that um any other

comments questions

thoughts if not Mr trell you can call

the

vote Miss Daniels yes Miss Davis yes

Miss green

no Mr Jones

yay Miss Rose

I'm here sorry uh

no Mr Rodriguez

no Miss Bowers

no Amendment Six fails by a vote of four

to

three thank

you all

right a M

number seven no no no oh yeah cuz six

failed but it still counts amendment

number seven proposed amendment number

seven um I make a motion to amend the

2025 proposed budget under the host

municipality host Municipal fee fund by

increasing the general fund

appropriation to the grant to local

units line item by a sum of

did we get a number because it says up

to

$59,999 and that is the highest it can

go before it triggers us to have to

advertise the budget for 10 days yes so

um would we like to increase

it the specific number I

write I make a motion to amend the 2025

proposed budget under the host Municipal

fee fund by increasing the general fund

appropriation to the grant local units

line item by a sum of

$59,000 you know

$59,000 is there a

second a

second it's been moved in second is

there any

discussion I just wanted to clarify that

the uh funds available in the municipal

host fee are unarm marked funds

is that correct they are une earmarked

they are there and it was advised for

two programs one is the program at the

housing authority and the other is the

Summer Music Festival but they have not

been appropriated for those purposes um

and this is would not be appropriated

here for a particular purpose because

you'd go from zero and trigger an

advertisement but I do under I think it

would be wise for the council at least

to S all out for the administration what

they're hoping those funds would be used

for Madam chair uh didn't director um

deputy director Ross actually put a

number to what those were for for the

concert series and yes so um there was a

number provided um as to how they got to

this number in in this line item um and

it was for the music series which I

think was $20,000 and then um the

program for uh that we usually par with

um the Housing Authority with um I don't

remember those exact numbers off the top

of my head um I know 20,000 for one yeah

yeah yeah yeah I thought it was 40,000

for music and 200,000 for the children's

salaries and programming in the summer

that sounds about for the environmental

team Corp environmental it it was not

40,000 for the Summer music series

because I remember they came down here

asking for 25,000 and um they were they

were told by

the can please can somebody

clarify I vaguely remember correct me if

I'm I'm wrong Tim like u in this is host

fee fund so the

distributions are uh

$285,000 proposed 200,000 is for the

Harrisburg Housing Authority um youth

program the team program that leaves

85,000 of that 85,000 45,000 is for uh

capital area Green

Belt uh so that leaves 40,000 and that's

split uh equally 20 uh 20,000 a piece

for uh the Summer music series July

music series and also the celebration

for

juneth that's the

breakdown so uh while while I'm talking

you you mentioned and I apologize I

missed you said

59,000 yes which do you know which

program you're you're referring to so

the the

59,000 um I believe was uh to be able to

provide funding towards a

Harrisburg SP I don't I don't remember

the exact Harrisburg Youth Sports

Association so this would be in addition

to what I just went through yes correct

adding funds to to create to be able to

fund another uh Grant to a local unit

got it okay okay that's thank you for

that that appreciate that

and just just to add that was something

that was brought up with the director of

parks Rec and they said they'd be more

than willing to work with uh Council one

that correct yes um when we got their

presentation from The Parks and Rec

Department I did ask them um because we

had heard earlier uh that night or had

spoken with um with a representative

from the Harrisburg sports sports Youth

Association um about uh the need for

this program and the the one

right the for um for a partnership with

um the different entities in the area to

uh provide funding to be able to create

a entire Area sports program that would