GEIFS - Julho 2026

Thank you again for being here at our July meeting. I have a agenda, but Jorge told me that he needs to retire at 5 p.m. So we're going to do a reverse here on the agenda. He won't have an excuse, right, Bar? I'm seeing you. He'll have an excuse to say that I didn't give him time, because he's going to start first today. Is Jorge wanting to watch the World Cup game?

I went crazy. He will consume all the time, he will leave us here until 7 pm. But just to reinforce our meetings here, we are here at the July meeting, on August 12, just for you to be safe there, September 16, 14th. Today is August 12? Today is not, July 15, okay.

August 12, our next one. I ended up not putting it here, but we put a survey for the group too, so that we can have our accounting meeting. It was an initial request coming from COGAT, from Sara, for us to talk about this subject, but many people showed interest.

We decided to have a chat, I put a survey in the group, I think it will probably be on the 28th,

I will bring some initial points, but the idea is for each one to bring their own exchange, what each company is studying about accounting, what they are thinking of doing, in solution. So it's not a definition or a consultancy to say how the accounting will be done, but of course, to make an exploratory with the whole group. I will also ask you

to send me the emails of the people you want me to send the invite, ok? Because this room here also has limits for us to have access control, but we also want you to bring the people from accounting who are not here at the Jeives meeting to participate in this chat, okay? It was this question I was going to ask you, Gisele. For example, here, right, Nilsa, she is part of it, right, as

substitutes, right? And she is from accounting. So, they are not necessarily those people who are at the Japheth. We can link other people from accounting. It is a specific forum for accounting. So, we're just going to talk about that, Bruno. It's a specific forum on this topic. So, it's really important to bring those involved who are conducting this project, okay?

I'll bring it to them. Great. So, if you want to send me a message, or by WhatsApp, or by email, "Look, I wanted to send this person to be in the meeting", we put it here and send the invite to them. "I want to send it on Friday so you can organize your schedule." Then we estimate here an hour, an hour and a half, at most two hours. I didn't want to take longer than that in this meeting.

but the idea is really for each company to do its own exercise of what has advanced in terms of parameterization systems and accounting definition. Okay? Okay? Those were the messages, Jorge. Look, do you see how good I am today? I'm in the mood. Giz, I need a favor. There is a member of the management committee that I asked about our agenda and he is calling now. Don't you want to start a part of yours and then I'll come in?

Just to call him back. You are very interesting. I try to help him, but he's not doing well. You can go, Jorge. I'll send you the print of my screen so you can see his message. No, you don't have to. Thank you. Let's go, guys. Let's go.

I think it's a chaos, and Matheus, I also found it, you see, a damn chaos, he doesn't want to watch the game, he already said he's going to have to leave earlier, come on. Guys, I'm going to start with the themes I brought from the reform, we're already consolidating some points, Wendell is here, Wendell had commented on a point there in the group, Wendell is not here yet.

but it's about some subjects that I think, even if they are not yet in force, are pertinent for us to start exploring. So last week there was a physical training on the compensation, resuscitation part, I compiled it here,

for our material, I will not, of course, spend three hours of training there, but I want to highlight for you the points that I consider important, especially for you who are working on the projects and how to position the whole team on what this will impact. So I brought the points today in relation to compensation, resuscitation,

the transfer to the part of the cashback, but very from the company's point of view, what you have to be aware of. The compensation, we have already talked about it and it is known to you that the tax will automatically, already dealing with the compensation of the values of IBS and CBS,

on top of the three rules. First, he will always treat compensation on a balance of IBS and ICBS that have been won, so it will always be this criterion. Then he will look at what is in the same month of the period of appuration,

and to allow compensation from fact-generators of the subsequent months. So it will be the way he will compensate the credit according to the article that is already there in 53 and is also there in the regulation.

In the case of resuscitation, there is an important point, that the resuscitation, you need to demonstrate the intention that you want to resuscitate the creditor's balance.

Let's suppose Flávio comes to me and says: "Today I already know that in that company I have credit." So I have an intention to have the compensation of that value. What does he need to do? This intention needs to be alerted within the current month. That is, if there more or less on the 20th, 25th you notice that you want to use

wants to ask for the resuscitation of that value, it is important that you signal within that month itself.

This intention information does not give you the right to ask, it will only show you that you have the intention. If you do not demonstrate the intention, it automatically throws the creditor's balance to the subsequent month.

So this is a very strong change that we will be in the process, because when he says that it has to be done in that current month, the intention,

You need to make this sign even if you are only going to make the request for resuscitation on day 1, day 2, day 3 of the subsequent month. But the intention will enable you to do it referring to the previous month, the current month that is happening.

So it doesn't prevent you from asking for the resuscitation in the subsequent month, but the intention already makes this break, it already signals that you will ask for this resuscitation within that current month. So these are different stages, this is the stage of intention,

and after the intention, then yes, in the adjustment period, you make the request for resuscitation.

So this intention will only serve to block that creditor's balance not to go to the subsequent month to be used in the purification. So, for example, if I didn't make the intention, when it's on the 30th, the tax officer will understand that that balance went to the subsequent month

and it can no longer be used in that period, it cannot be requested to be re-elected in that period. And of course, if there is a debt and there is a creditor balance, it will use the compensation automatically on December 1st. Then, in the adjustment period, you will be able to make this request itself,

and then you have all the fields that you can fill this request, ask for resuscitation, you can even ask for resuscitation partially, that is, not only

of that period, but one of the total value, but partially of the value you can ask and from that it will generate that identification of that request there, ok? So here is an example, I took the screen from their screen, but just to emphasize

what generated there of solicitation and this solicitation can happen in the subsequent month. The laws then, let's suppose I didn't ask for the intention, but at the time of the adjustment that I went to make in the subsequent month, I noticed that I have a creditor balance there, we are here in July, in August I noticed that I had a creditor balance

available there. Can I still make the request? You can still within the month, but it will look at what the remaining balance you have, you make the request in the same way, okay? There is one detail that is important, that when you do it in the month, as we are now in July, referring to the closing of June,

When you finish your repayment request, it automatically closes the adjustment period. So when you make this request, it already closes that period. So it is important that all adjustment by action have occurred before making the repayment request, because then you already have the consideration of all the adjustments that you identified as debt and credit note, okay?

There are some highlights that will align with other points that I will talk about later. So every time I generate a request, it will generate a web Pair de Compte with requested credit. So every time I create a request for a resettlement, it will automatically create a request on the Pair de Compte screen.

An important detail, there is a dismemberment by type of credit, there is a credit of goods and services, there is a credit of acquisition of goods and services incorporated into active and mobilized, there are credits related to operations with the rural producer, so all this will create a per decompte for each request that is made.

That is, every time I ask for a repayment, it goes to the Pair de Compte, dismembered by the credit codes. So it will have this dismemberment. And when will this repayment be paid?

will be prioritized the requests in up to 30 days for the contributors who are in tune with FIA. So look what we are talking about the merge with the conformity programs, these resuscitations they will be priority, ok? So for the requests for goods and services normal or more common will be 30 days, for the others it will

is equating to 60 days to 180 days the resuscitation if there is any tax procedure no no Flávio you don't need to be in both just be in one of them ok any of them will enable the only detail here in the tune has to be with the note more ok this this this point

And if there is any tax procedure, even if it is in some program of the Syntonia, it goes to 180 days.

So there is this differentiation in relation to the request for resuscitation. So it is important for you to look at which companies you have, which always have credits, which will have more credits than debits. Look at these operations to determine if you go through the resuscitation line or not.

define some of these processes in this phase that you are mapping. In summary, that was a little bit of resuscitation, remembering that the Pair Decomp is still in development, so it has not enabled these fields to see how the request is done, it is not ready,

So, it's not yet available, there are screen prints during the presentation, but it's a demo demo, it's not enabled, and then, as soon as it's enabled, we'll show it to you here at the next meetings, okay?

But if the month ended and we don't ask for resuscitation, can we ask? Yes, Flávio. So here you can, during the month, even if I'm here in May, I didn't put the intention, but then what will he do? He will see in that period that you are making an adjustment, you can do the option of asking for resuscitation. What he will do, he doesn't do, is the cut.

When you show intention, it's like you really stopped that resuscitation value and knew that there was a value of 100 thousand that you were going to resuscitate, it doesn't transfer automatically to the next month,

But in the next month you can ask, what will happen? That 100 thousand goes there, I don't know, for day 1, day 2, day 3, while you didn't make the resuscitation request, that creditor balance is being used. And then when I have the entry of this balance, when I ask for the resuscitation, it will enable me in the subsequent month, without any problem.

but he will look at the balance of that period in that operation, just leaving the remaining request of what was not used. But it can be. That's what I said, everything in theory, ok Flávio? Everything in theory, everything that was demonstrated there, the concept, but that's what we did. Regarding transfers,

That's right, Roberto. This is a question that was even there in...

chat when they were in the meeting presenting I saw several people asking Roberto about it, right? And they said they were going to pass an instruction on the issue of the immovable asset, okay? How it should be detailed to separate what is left over from the asset part, but it's on the radar. It's a differentiated credit, so I think I have a screen print more to the front.

and here it didn't appear but here is this description of the credit on this resuscitation screen, there are basic credits on the acquisition of goods and services if it had been immobilized here it would have even come separately, it will come separately, they even warned that it will come as a

which is another credit option, precisely to make a different treatment, okay? Giz, even at the last meeting we got to discuss a little about it, I think Jorge alerted a point that I don't know if

was overcome by this doubt, those investments in progress, because theoretically Jorge warned about the moment of activation, when I will send that event,

because if I have a mobilized asset there and send the event, it will signal that in the assisted operation that this credit is differentiated, passive and pre-recessed. But then the doubt arose, we ourselves here, we are building a new factory, it will only be operational in two years. When do I send this event? Only when it leaves?

the start there in production or as the immobilized assets enter I will send the event because I will understand it is a point of this is not clear there in the regulation at least Roberto put the same thing as you Bruno in the chat it will be influenced by the event that we will notify the asset right so we need to have this

orientation on when it will be really put. This answer we don't have yet. We don't have it yet, Bruno. We don't have it yet, okay?

What we noticed is that, for example, for those who are already in, or the assets that have already entered, even so they have the balance, which is the first question that Roberto asked here, then this one, anyway, has to come there too, the credit.

and they said they will control it separately, but it also needs for us to have the vision of the warning, really, of what moment I will communicate that it will enter that well and start counting it. This is the same article that was not activated there at ICMS. That's right, Jorge.

Then, it was also shown about the transfer issue, when will the transfers take place, in applicable cases, in the case when there is a split, when there is a collection for the buyer, a higher payment by the supplier. The transfer is an excess of collection. So, let's assume that I agreed with Flavio that he would provide me

And then I told him, "Flávio, let me pay the tax, I'm going to do the collection here,

I'm acquiring, I'll collect it myself. But Flávio, due to a coincidence between my collection time and his collection time, he goes there and pushes this tax, because the debt will appear for him anyway, and the option will appear for me to collect as an acquirer. So between his time to collect and me to collect, we didn't have it combined, I collect here and this excess

of payment, that is, he collected and I also collected. So what will happen? The tax officer will identify that there is a payment in duplicity in relation to me wanting that credit and he, afraid that I would not pay, he also went there and paid the value.

And then, this excess payment, the tax officer will recognize this value in duplicity and in three days will return to Flávio the request, the value that was paid the highest.

he was owed to him, so he will return it to him. So it happens in these situations, or a payment also, I don't know, for duplicity, right? So, unintentionally, he paid the DARF twice, went there and made this payment in duplicity, so also the transfer, it returns this value

to the supplier. So, these are values that will be used in this operation. Also, the payment can happen in duplicity because of the split itself. A split collection was made,

and even so, a payment of values ​​of the same tribute was made. So these two cases can generate payment. The assisted appraisal will carry out this verification and will return the money to these cases, okay?

Here it is just to show here on the transfer screen how it is being recorded, then the collection here by the buyer, a radio that was found,

So, these information that were paid, duplicities, they will be all registered within the assisted appuration. So, this will not be lost in this process. So, it will all be registered within the other operations, the records of the exceeding values ​​in the appuration, precisely to evaluate. So, those who do not use data will be verifying.

Another way is also the request for restitution. It can also happen, in the same case, the bigger payment, you paid the ticket twice, you can also make the request for restitution

of these values. And then it goes via PEDECOMP, the same process, to make this request for restitution as well. So, they are ways of compensation, compensation, or restitution, or even transfer, which we are also now

a new concept, because the transfer, the period of institution I will ask for the value for the tax again, the transfer period is the period that I will only transfer to another appuration of mine and I can use it in subsequent periods, this is the big difference, the tax will verify the duplicity and will allow you to use it in the appuration itself,

And finally, during the presentation, they brought the concept of PUC, which is the credit use request, a subject that is sensitive to everyone, especially those who have a lot of PIS and COFINS credit now, being signaled in the December period.

So probably, Roberto and Bruno asked about the asset, we will have an instruction regarding assets as well, how to consider, because everything we are talking about compensation, about compensation, about all this process,

will consider everything on top of the information that we will inform in the last declaration of FD Contributions of December. So this last information

that will have the final balance is what will be most important to us in this model, because it indicates that these PIS and COFINS balances can be used for the compensation of the CBS and can also be repaid or compensated with another tax, but it must be formalized via a credit use request, which is now the PUC, a new concept that we

will get used to it, right? Gi, let me ask you a question. I'll listen to other people who are here at the meeting.

What do we do with the December FD? I don't know about you, but we don't receive all the fiscal notes of December that will still have PIS and COFINS in the month of December. We have return documents, purchases that are received in January. What are we going to do? Are we going to rectify it? What are we going to do? Is there any guidance on this? Or am I the only one traveling in mayonnaise?

The others were very free to open the microphone. Not only regarding the FD Contributions, but also, we even talked at the last meeting, even the audience, everyone is a little lost there in December, that many times we don't have this vision. And the FD Contributions, it has this possibility, really, to have a deadline, right? In fact, the FD Contributions of December, its deadline is later.

But it will be a divorce. For example, today I don't know, at least here in Colgate, I receive a note in January, I take physical credit only in January. And then it's the same, tax and CMS spread. All right, I know, we're saying that one thing is one thing that we have to talk about a different reform than what we have today.

but inevitably I will have to get all this documentation or rectify the SPED so I don't lose the credit for these notes and I will be evicted, will I have any problem with that? Sorry Marcia, I interrupted you. I don't see how you do it if you don't do it through the rectification, since these tax notes will certainly appear later. Márcio? Good afternoon.

So, Gilles, here I have another problem. That revenue guidance came out regarding the use of creditors' balance of PIS and COFINS for presumed credit of CBS. There, in the technical guidance, it said that you would have to have this credit written in the FD Contributions.

But I was in doubt, for example, when I have a work that is not ready, I will have to write the credit that I already have there in block M,

I'll show you later the two situations they have. What happens today? For the income tax, these Piscofins credits that Bárbara commented on, enter the account of the asset to be recovered in the short term and the immobilized Piscofins goes into the long term.

And then, after the work is done, everything is working, depreciation begins to occur. And then we have the final value of the asset and the credits of PIS and COFINS that entered that work, the asset, we have the amount of credit.

And then in December, as I have, as our SMM has here, several of these situations, we will not have the value to inform the FD, contributions, you know? I don't know if you have this case there. I think it was very aligned with what Bruno said just now, Márcio. Bruno commented, but

There is another problem, that in the technical note 2025-2, that the asset credit in another situation would generate an event. Then, even in another forum that we participate here, people discussed a lot if it would be per item or per asset. Imagine next year you make the entry per item to each event,

For example, there is a note that there are 500 items, right? You would have to do 500 events for Receita Federal to have the vision there in the assisted appraisal that that credit is of asset

But Marcio, that's precisely the point, right? Because I understand that for the end of the assisted operation, this event would replace, let's say, what I do today in the writing of the ICMS with the indication of the CFOP. How is the Federal Revenue, as a manager, going to know that this is an asset? I have to say that this item of the note is an asset, sending an event.

And then the question goes beyond that, right? That's one point. The other is what we are putting, right? That we discussed in the other one, I'm just going to send this event to those items that are investment in progress, right? Construction. Only when I activate the well, that is, the factory started running, then I send the event

from the factory, from the whole plant. Or as you put, each note that I write today in my inbound, at the time I'm receiving the note, I'll send the event to the item and I'll say, "this is a tip, it will go into the factory." This has consequences in the resourcing process, because from the moment I send the event, I signal to the receipt, "this credit is differentiated, I have the right to resourced it in a shorter time."

how will the Federal Revenue treat this? At least I didn't see it clearly within the regulation. It's not really clear, Bruno. The intention is clear, that it wants to control that this credit is active. Yes, yes. And if you don't do it by item for each note,

or they will give you an authorization to do it per month, but by the system that is being designed it would be

- By note, by item. - By note, by item. Because the event is linked to the note and the note is linked to the item. - So, that's why I'm hitting this key. - And operationally it's complex to do that. Exactly. The right thing, which we were even drawing here, was to operate it in the way that it is today. In the act of writing the note there, I have this FOP that is active and immobilized, this note will already be launched as active.

signalize the event automatically there, right? By DRC. Yes. But we don't even know if we can do that. No. Now you didn't answer the question of the DABA, regardless of the asset. What are you thinking? No, it's just that I'm trying to rectify it. Unfortunately. She will.

will do the witch hunt of grades in December. No, and here we have a problem that the prefectures cancel a lot of service tax that we took credit for and sometimes it appears here situation of two, three months that the supplier canceled, the company has already paid, has already taken credit in the FD,

Let's pray that this does not happen with the reform, that they don't let people cancel more service notes. Jorge is working for that, Marcia. Jorge will get this for us, this benefit. Everyone is in yours. Tomorrow you won't be alone in this suffering. This happens a lot.

It's not easy, right, guys? It's because, like, this is interesting, even for you to put it in the work plan, knowing that there will be many rectifications, I don't know how you, there, Bárbara, organized to do this, like, oh, I'm going to organize myself for a certain period, anyway, it took, I don't know, two, three notes coming, but you also don't stay in a constant rectification, right? So, it's

is another point too I don't know if anyone has any more we follow a little that question of rejection, right? Before when we had the 180 day period we kind of gave half the deadline here for people to give entry now we are working with 30 days so possibly we will let it be rectified

to consider everything in mid-February and March, because you can't lose money, right? For sure, because that's what you said, we're imagining a heavy cash flow, a very strong impact on the cash in the month of January, precisely because we won't have that amount of documents at that time. Let me just explain one thing they brought during the presentation,

So we have to make two negotiations regarding the PIS and COFINS credit. Then we have the loan negotiation that will be revoked, and then I have a course that if it is a credit that is revocable, if yes, it goes through a compensation of the CBS, it automatically goes to the Compte paper,

If it is not a resuscitable credit, it goes through the PUC system and goes to assisted operation. So these are two flows. How am I going to know what is a resuscitable credit or not? So they brought non-resuscitable credit, which are highlighted there in article 4856. So today they are those who are there in group 100.

which is the credit linked to the tax revenue in the internal market, is not accessible. So, here's an example: legal people who industrialize or import drugs, petrochemical centers, importers with a liquid health differential. So, these credits, they will have to do it. If it is not accessible, I will do the path via PUC.

So these are the differences, I think we can start working on the exercise to understand this process of asking, especially those who are responsible,

Another day, a person said: "Who is responsible for the ICMS? Me? Who is responsible for what?" So, if you are responsible for everything, then there is nothing to discuss, but maybe imagine this activity within your process.

I think I ate here, there were those that are, I think I ate here in the presentation, unintentionally. They are the other credits that are deductible, so they are considered really deductible. But they are right in the next article. Mithu was saying: "Some companies buy large-volume assets as a pivot. In this case, there is a note and several remittances for the delivery of the parts.

since there is no way to transport everything. As we are talking about the mobilization event, it would have to manifest on the sale or on the deliveries. But it's not a delivery for the future, right? Or do you just do that delivery, then do the last final with all of them?

Gisleya, are you listening to me well? I'm listening, Milton. No, not in this case. This case is basically this issue of depopulation that you were all talking about. And irrigation pivot, you usually buy a pivot of, I don't know, 100 meters for agriculture, and you can't transport it in a single load. So what happens? The supplier emits a sales tax note,

for the rural producer, which is the entire pivot. But the delivery is made through several remittances. It's not a future delivery, it's a global sale with several remittances.

I talked about it in other moments with other groups, because when we talk about the fact-generator, it's a question, running away a little from the event, the fact-generator says it's the supply, so if the sale is not the same as the delivery, it's already like this, what is the document that is the taxation? So that generates a point, what is effective is the delivery, which are the remittances,

or the sale, which was one of the points. And then, when it comes to the immobilization of the good, this reflection of where I will recognize the taxation also impacts on what document I will manifest the event of immobilization of the good.

In fact, just so I can understand Milton, the irrigation machine will only be completed and its supply complete when all the pieces are distributed, am I wrong or not? 10 trucks that take all the pieces corresponding to one life. So it's something that is also kind of complex, there is no answer in the legislation for that.

And today, for example, this rimeza is in the activation of the rimesas, in the last one, do you consider it for activation effect? I'm asking, okay?

For example, if we think about the legislation of PIS and COFINS, you recognize it by the sales fee. In ICMS, you recognize it by the remittances, because these are the circulations. As we talk about IBS, CBS, and it's the supply, I understand that the supply is realized through each remittance that you make, and not the sales fee, effectively. Because the sale does not accompany the transport. What accompanies the transport are the remittances.

If I go to the public sector, what do I do? About the sale or about the remittances that in fact there were partial supplies for each load? I understand that it is the remittance. It is another particularity that is not clear. No, the donation needs to explore more so that they bring more regulation to give us light on how to proceed, but it is indeed.

It's still complex, that's what I say, the drawing is beautiful, but when it comes to operationalization, we already have this differentiation, which is there in article 48, 56, if I'm not mistaken, I think 53 too, and it's about what is reassigned or not credit, of this law, and then as the situation goes, the path will be used.

via PUC or via PEDECOMP directly, ok?

Why does it have a differentiation? Because it has codes, so here is a prototype, so for those who have already seen the PEDECOMP, you enter the ECAC, it already has this compensation, restitution, resettlement, reimbursement, and it will have a PUC here, a PUC button to make this request.

Here is an example of the option for real monthly profit and the calendar year information. He brought this demonstration and then he is showing that he is recovering above the FD and then the question from the bar again: "Wow, so it means I made a PUC, I made a credit request

So if we think about it from a more processual perspective, it might not be interesting for me to make this request before I have the last FD with the finalized contributions.

because if I make a PUC, which is a credit request, and it is recovering from an FD contributions that I have, here is what I showed you, that it brings at the time of the request, it is dismembered by the type of credit, here credit linked to export, it has a whole value of the request separately,

and then it shows the value that is being used in the PUC. But imagine the following: "Barbara, if you ratify and you have already made the PUC request, you will have to redo this process again, okay? Since it will always recover from the FD contributions.

Today we have a deadline to send this lost copy, right? I think until June, isn't that right? Or am I crazy? No, in fact, it allows you to do... I didn't see it specifying for June, no. I saw it specifying there...

only the deadlines for the availability of this environment, but not necessarily what is much more related to the request related to the adjustment of the period of operation. So this is the point that you have to use to make use of the PUC, not effectively

the ratification or anything related to the use request. I didn't see it in June, honestly. Did you see it somewhere? No, but I don't know if I saw anything like that, not official, but it's up to confirmation. So there's no deadline, I can do this during the year of 2025.

Milton is saying, I think the deadline is only for the stock opening credit, ah, it's this last one here, right, it's the stock opening, the exportation, he's talking about June 2027, it's detailed by the credit, so only specific for this credit, thank you Milton, I didn't remember. Thank you.

The opening stock of presumed assets, if I'm not mistaken, that the complementary law brings as the lifting deadline and requested until June. So, it's out of the memory. I think it's a defined deadline. Cool.

So here is a prototype of how it will appear, it will also appear there, there is a "credit of PIS and COFINS" button, so it brings the PUC, it will feed by assisted action and will forward here in the other information the credit when it is released for use.

We need a little more time, I think we still need a little more definition in relation to this PUC, people make a lot of noise, I say that we are running over, we are developing a system, being that a lot of legislation is not ready yet.

And we are here with a definition of active that we have no logic at all how to deal with these cases. But that's how we are, here it is development of system but without requirements. First it develops the system, then it makes the system requirements. Look, the system staff who are here are not listening to me to know about these great challenges that we are living there, of project.

Guys, that's it, we've gone through the content. Jorge, I'm already finishing this part of the reform, because then you can take it and I'll come back to finish the rest, okay?

Just to add at the end of the presentation, it was also talked about the cashback program of taxes and incentive programs. I will not talk about cashback here because it is not our concern as a contributor, but how do I worry that we have companies in the group here that can give cashback.

are specific services or specific products that will give the right to cashback to low-income contributors. Despite the fiscal having made the monthly design, at first it already indicated that these cashbacks will be paid quarterly to CBS from 2027, then they will work with the monthly model, but at first

and then the contributor has to be in the single registration. What do we call the commission here for the companies that are here in the group? I know some have energy, supply, gas, and telecoms, which is the idea of ​​the discount cashback. This will generate a lot of headache, because in fact,

In this case, the cashback will not be deposited to the contributor, it will be given as a discount within that very invoice that he is making. So, these are the controls that will be required for these companies that provide these services or these products,

a big challenge to already make this discount cashback for this low-income contributor, so companies need to be there in this group to follow this cashback project very closely, which will bring

one more tax management control for them, ok? Good afternoon, I'm thinking here about what you said, we have a telecom client here, right? With all certainty, making this control will be humanly impossible, it will have to be automated in some way,

I just can't see if this automation comes from the RP, right? From the add-on or from the client himself, you know? Because how to evaluate this discount in low income? Will there be any signage in the registration? Do you have an idea of how this will be? I'm already thinking here and I'm even having a stomachache, right? I'm not sure when this comes out, I...

This contributor has to be there in the single registration. So, let's say you sell to me, Jani Skill sells to me and you are a telephone. So when you have the telephone service, the only charge, my telephone bill would be

and would have another 10 reais of BSCBS. What are you going to do? You will highlight it in the document, but you will not charge me, because I can't. So, these 110 that you would charge me, you will only charge me 100, precisely because of that, because I wouldn't have it, the cashback is already given, it's a discount on the tax value, I'm not exempting you, I'm not giving exemption to the

for the issuer of the document, it can't be zero, it will highlight, but you can't charge me, so I understand that it would be in the RP, ok?

I would like to have some registration identification of this contributor and whenever I have information, I will apply the discount in the parameterization formula. Exactly, exactly. It's what I imagined, God help me.

And then, he says that in this case, these contributors would have 100%. So they would have 100%. And besides that, there are also some other cases, gas gas, which would also give this benefit, which would be 100%. But he also already foresees on the legal basis

that can be studied, gives 20% to other products. So let's suppose, I'll put it here, I don't know, let me see who's here, I think it's from P&G, right? I don't know, does Kogat also have an absorbent?

No? No, Gi? No, you don't have it either, right? But if you had another product, something like that. It may happen that the tax officer will also insert other products, giving 20% to CBS. And then he would have to do the same thing. The calculation, I sold a product for R$ 10, he would have to have R$ 2 of CBS.

then I'm giving this contributor 20% for the issue of exemption in relation to CBS, so the 100% of the contribution could not be charged from the CBS. So the idea in this parameterization, Giz, is not even to disregard the total charge, it is to leave a configuration too, right? Because depending on what is per item, then it will be per item, right? Exactly.

This is what he will define later, they didn't mention anything, but the union can specify percentages in relation to setting a list of items that it can give to these people as well, 20%, I don't know 100%, but this cashback discount that they call it.

Okay, but it would be by item, right? For the information you have. Yes, yes, by item. Okay, thank you. Here, for example, here is the example of what they are imagining there, of percentage, gas, kitchen, energy, the product of IES does not enter the cashback, they were excluded, so it is a product that will not allow you to give cashback to IES, okay?

they have already anticipated that this will not be allowed. What I said, the idea is to be monthly, but at first they will start quarterly.

The other point here is in relation to Tax Free, right? So they've already brought it, I don't even say "I don't make beans with rice", they're already thinking about lasagna, right? But anyway, they're already thinking about Tax Free, I would like this little map of the presentation, the countries that today have Tax Free, each one of them with its own rules, right? Some give in values, others don't,

in vouchers, in short, each country defines how foreigners who enter the country consume some products, other products and services, at their departure from the country they may have cashback. But where do I want to get here about Tax Free, not from foreigners, physical people, which is not our focus here, right? No one here has a departure from the country, so

will not ask for Tax Free here, but how the companies that will participate in Tax Free, so the companies will also register. And remembering that Tax Free for companies who ask Flávio, boy, Flávio is very audacious, he wants to ask for it, he left the country's definitive, oh guys, I'm going to tell you.

And then what is the characteristic for the contributor to ask for? It has to have 90 days of permanence at most, it has to be on top of material goods, the credit will only happen at the exit, only when the foreigner leaves, and it has to make a regulation regarding the exchange, and how the value will be paid.

It will arrive at the thing and have dollars and will make a conversation and will give to the foreigner. What happens? This is an important point. All companies that are there in the CNPJ registration with a plus tune, they are automatically enabled, will be enabled to participate in Tax Free.

That is, the registration at the CNPJ when it issued, if it is with the A or A+ in the tune, this CNPJ will already give the cashback to the foreign company.

they will do the automatic approval. For the other contributors, then you will have to make the request for approval. So the impact I see here is who are the accredited companies, the accredited stores to give the Tax-Free.

So these accredited stores will directly impact you, such as the registration, the necessary information, and how you will also know who is buying from abroad and asking for Tax Free. So it is also important that you know who you are asking for.

Jorge, I finished my reform part here, which I selected, and then I'll let you play the reform, then I'll come back to continue, okay? It's still on mute. Good afternoon, folks. It's an incredible pleasure to be here to talk to you again, bringing only good news, only news, only Nárnia.

Let's go to our agenda first. I have the messages. The messages arrived a little late today, but they arrived. We have a tight agenda today, which is branched into many items. So I made a consolidation of these themes.

We will talk about assisted operation, we understand that the concept of assisted operation needs to be crystallized. I took the proof, that question that we were talking about freezing in the last meeting, and in Cinef49 there was a change, a fine adjustment.

We had the CTE meeting last month, there was no space on the agenda to talk, I will bring here the main topics and then we have updates. The new practical guide 3.23. Just a problem, people, just roll. You say like this, but the tax expeditions were not going to end? The guys resurrect the train, people. And...

the orientative note of the tax inspection for gas and we also had the package with FAS. Look how beautiful, right? For those who didn't go there, the practical guide said: "I won't even look at it, it's not focused anymore". The practical guide has 32 news. Think about it. So, you have to have coffee,

But before that, we had a agenda from last week, which also didn't work last month, because it didn't take time. The debate was heated, the spirits were exacerbated, but it was on the margin. I wanted to have our debate before, so I could do it later. I did this debate yesterday, I participated in this debate there on the live yesterday. Even Mrs. Bárbara was there.

We are repeating the theme, Mrs. Bárbara. It was very good, congratulations. Thank you. I wasn't there to control it yet. But Vânia was, she did it sometimes, don't worry. But Ana Tereza Guerra was there with the little flag informing the time. I had to run. Let's go, guys, this is a very important topic.

margin, competition and reform, a quick presentation, but it comes from Bernardo Api's comment in a State report where he says that

He says: "It is understandable that the private sector is anxious at this time, when there are many regulations to be made in the tax reform on consumption. This is the time to talk and listen, and there is a possibility of building a good model for everyone.

Companies need to be prepared, not only as suppliers. Many of them don't look at the impact that the reform will have on acquisitions. This is true. Here we already talked about it. Talk to your supplier to understand what his position is in relation to this. Talk to your client too to understand how he positions himself. Does he think it's cool to do split?

What does he think of the radio? Will he want to do the radio at his base of income that he has with you? This is super important. Do an event with the main suppliers, distributors, lenders, with the clients. Show this presentation to him, do the presentation for him. Bring it to the dialogue. Remember, for those who depend on presumed credit,

"Ah, there will be a very close relationship, very profitable between the two parties." And if it's an autonomous carrier, then it's not even said. Then he said the pearl that impacted everything: "If everyone decides to take advantage of this moment to increase the margin, it will be a problem." Anyway, and then he said: "It is important to understand that if the competitor makes the right decision, it will win the market."

Whoever wants to do right, highlights, will be able to deal with the competition issue. If everyone keeps the margin, the final result will be positive for society. Remember, it's not enough to remember that the fiscal has that challenge of neutrality, right?

the commitments cannot suffer any reverse due to lack of collection. I have the impression that in this period, when the reform actually begins, we will stop hearing that story of collection records. But until then, because he only has to talk about neutrality.

But until then we have a speech and a very big debate. It is a process in construction in the tax reform. This process requires openness, it requires disposition for dialogue, things are not linear, sometimes it goes and comes back. But the process has been positive.

He doesn't know half of the story. The process in the public sector says it needs to be complemented with dialogue with the private sector. This is absolutely fundamental and there is a lot of work to be done in the regulation. He remembers that there was, on the last day, 30 regulations, etc. We already know that.

He says it is necessary to assemble as quickly as possible a agile consultation system because there are many doubts that will appear. Many? Only suggestions were 4,000, right?

Well, guys, this is the motto that we have been discussing there and I wanted to discuss with you the issue of margin. I can tell you that I have already talked to companies that identified that certain production lines, products, they will gain and will improve this margin. There is a discussion, while there is no

the definition of the government, the margin and the way they will treat it, they say that it either absorbs or will unload on the market. The problem of unloading for the consumer, and they were very strong in this, is that they do not have control, in quotes, of what the chain will do in the future when it improves this price at the hands of the distributor.

So there is a discussion about this, to what extent he can work on this issue. When he commented on this, I remembered, for example, the beverage sector, ice cream, the agenda, they have meetings for this agenda. How will they behave? One has more, the other doesn't have, anyway, I think it's fundamental that we start talking about this subject.

And in this model that we are thinking about, what happens today? We already know that tax reform involves not only taxes, but also the whole chain, it involves the work of a new behavior of companies, whether as suppliers, whether as customers, it changes the market strategy.

at this time, who will decide who is good, who will choose the good side and the bad side. I say this because I have heard people who said: "I don't even want to know if my margin will improve, I worked for it and I want to receive it, I want to take advantage of this margin." There are people saying that too. There is even this grandfather who said to me: "Will there be a fine because I had more profit?" No. And even if there was, I would pay the fine. Look at that.

Anyway, there are people who are radical, but the importance of this is that in this process we will have transparency, we will be able to look at the other side of the competition. I will give the example of Software House with the tax reform. Before all this, all software companies called me,

people who are known in the market, they call to know what they are going to do and what they are not going to do. And their question was: "Will the reform be treated as a new legislation or will it be treated as a legal update?"

I said, well, at the time I worked at the commercial of Sauter House, a new complementary law was changed, it's a new legislation, because it will live in parallel with the old one,

and no one else wanted to sacrifice that. So they were more black waiting for who would decide, because that's exactly what we're talking about. This will also happen in all sectors, this surveillance of competition, the strategic behavior of each company.

In the case of the software house, they waited for the leaders to make the decision to follow the same vibe and treat it as a legal update to a certain extent. Some new products are not possible. DERI, fiscal note of asset alienation, real estate, real estate, water, gas, this is a new project, there is no way.

So this changes the question, that's why we're talking about strategic behavior, transparency, that radically changes the structural model. And this has an impact on the economy, on the competitive impact, and is part of this long transition process. We've already talked about the long transition process, because of the benefits of investments,

And then you come up with this scenario, saying that if everyone tries to take advantage of the moment of reform to increase the margin, it will be a problem. How many will do that? We don't know. But the question is, we are talking about margin, looking at it like this: well, I have a broad base, so I will take credit, the full cumulative non-cumulative regime,

So everything will be taxed, but I will take credit for everything related to my business. Looking at this side and taking the interest that the Federal Reserve threw in the air, 9.25%, we understand that it can really happen and already, an example that I gave of a company that came to say that it will gain margin in the projection.

These simulations still have my remarks, but they say they will have. I believe. If he's already saying that there's already margin without putting his hand on the mass, imagine when he starts to really get an effective scenario of operation and check the margin.

We are not discussing that the IBS/EBS tax will be appropriated two months after the second month of subsequent operation. This is another story. It's really about the impact on the market.

There is a discussion in the market too, because today we live in ostracism, which is this story of artificial margin increase because of taxes, because of tax assumptions and such. And in reality, companies anchor their prices in this story. I'm not talking about your companies, but there are many companies that do that. And then came a...

It's difficult to know the real price of a product. The one with the added value. I mentioned yesterday the Pesto sauce, which I love. I bought the imported one, I liked it, but the one from Oba was better at the time. So I bought the one from Oba. And it's more expensive.

now the price has dropped, so it's there, but usually the imported one is more expensive. In this case it was the opposite that I experienced. So maybe it's not the price that will affect the business, it may be

the quality, the added value, the experience, it depends on several factors. Here we are looking only at one margin and the comparison between one and the other and how the market will be located. Because depending on the company, it will say: I will not do anything, end point. I will not lower the price, but your competitor will.

And he is after his market share. He wants to increase his market share at his base. And he goes there and raises. And you know why he is doing this. Because you didn't touch your price.

By the way, we are talking about price. Will the price of the gondola happen? The physicist said: "This is not our problem, you decide." Until the government comes into the story and says that we will have to put the liquid price or the price with the tax. Anyway, there will be people saying: "I'm not going to that supermarket, you take the gondola and you will pay, there is an increase in the price." Do we know that?

But anyway, in this story of "I don't do anything and my competitor will lower the price", and then I have a serious reaction problem of mine. Then I have another one that is a reaction of the government, if he observes that the companies are not moving on the margin, and on the contrary, because we have heard there, is the following: the product today costs R$ 1,000, today, 2026,

but let's talk about 2026 and it starts to cost R$ 1,000 in 2027 with the liquid outside. It's wrong too. We've discussed it. At Envias I've seen people criticizing this position that we comment on. "Oh, you have to take the tax out of the price." It's the price, the value of the commodity that is there in the inventory. On December 31st,

from 2026, so let's increase the product to 31/12, then we go into column in this story, be careful, because the market will also react. So what I'm saying is this here, we already know this calculation, the product costs R$ 1,000, but in reality, depending on the CMS liquidity, depending on the state of the product, it costs

728 times 28 percent final product 932 and not 1280 already had this chat there in the company we will discuss this in a little while, okay, well, logically, there was this question there in the company in the company in the discussion with the fiscal Gislaine Nogueira was present including

Vinícius, who is the representative of Cefaz do Rio Grande do Sul, who takes care of some issues related to the tax rate, said the following: "Look, we are thinking of putting a field for the value of the commodity, the value of the product, without taxes. And then that field would be for you to use for the base of gross, of the price,

from Gross App to ICMS, so the value of the liquid market, zeroed, of taxes. So, Gross App to reach the ICMS base, I get this value and do the calculation inside. And this same value, without taxes, will be the base for the tax outside.

That's what the attorney said. What was the company's response? Even without analyzing it properly, they said: "No, this will expose me." That's what they said at the time. And I was remembering, I recorded this speech. I have it recorded here. I forgot to bring it, I could have brought it. But the attorney already pointed out for that. So here I'm going to pause because of this provocation that the attorney made.

Because from the meeting to here, this has evolved, right? The backstage, some companies and the coordination gathered to deal with exactly this field. But in the middle of the way came the decision of CONFAS. Have you heard of the decision of CONFAS, which has not been published yet? Does anyone know? Who was at the Getap second? No one was? Guys, you are associated with Getap. Getap makes that lobby story, right?

in Brazil. What was presented was the discussion about the inclusion of the IBS and the CBS in the ICMS calculation base, because CONFAS strangely decided that there is no way to avoid this kind of thing, this kind of recomposition. The states are in a deadlock, they will have the impact of the cash flow,

which is the same as the companies have, which is the same as here. Today the company receives from its clients, let's say, if it were here, one billion reais. And there in 33 it will receive 728 million. Oops, there's a difference there that I need to work.

the state will also have and there is a rule that says that it has to have neutrality if this neutrality is not preserved it has two outputs that are there in the regulation of the IBS and the CBS increase in the liquid point Pacific or the first point is the

increase in the liquid, which is that calculation that for recomposition, up or down, and according to the evolution of each year, there will be this work. Or make this adjustment of legislation that is also planned, the 87th complement. And that's what they want to do instead of talking about liquid, because liquid has a worldwide impact.

So this is the background for that discussion that evolved from CONFAS and was discussed at the Getapa meeting. I spoke after Monday with some of the board of directors and even asked: "But are they against it?" Like this: "Are they against it?"

I said: "No, imagine!" The problem is the moment you will say that. You can't say that there in December, November, October. The retail, for example, has Black Friday and it already starts to impact. The retail is prepared in September, being so very pessimistic.

This has to be done before to be able to plan consultancies, RP, adjustments and such, a series of issues. But then there is a political issue. Will this information come before the elections? Will it impact the current federal government? Will the election wait to be announced to the company? They run after it, like a rift. So at this point I take the second pause.

to inform you what was the call I received last minute. There will be a meeting next week with the Federal Revenue and the Board of Directors, because the Board of Directors is telling the Revenue that the companies are not prepared, that the companies have a lot to do, have a lot of project indefinitions, in short, it's not 100%.

The fiscal receipt itself, you see the technical note 9, for those who did not see the statement, it will be implemented, phased out, until December, until November. "Oh, I'm going to release November for you to test, hi?" So it's not ready either. But what the management committee is saying is that it does not reach the secretary and he needs the help of the companies, but he has to document it, he has to say: "Look, people,

It's no use talking about meetings, you have to do the job, list the problems, that's what a meeting is about. Also before the meeting with the revenue, there will be a meeting with the pilot companies to talk about this subject. So if you have problems with the lack of definition of legislation, which we just talked about,

difficulties in adjusting systems, processes, this needs to be taken to the committee, to the Secretary of the Farm, to the Federal Revenue, so that he receives the truth and not this "stuck" marketing that CEPRO has and his colleagues, to say that everything is fine, everything is great. This is a message that I received now, that needs

I will give the example I had. One day the client said: "I need to upgrade the SAP, but in April, not now, in December. If I do it in December, I have to pay twice to adjust the new, the old and then the new upgrade. What was done? I indicated a lawyer, specialist in the subject, did the job, the job fell there,

Confas was waiting for someone to ask for the deadline. Coincidentally, there were states that were not ready, as is happening now, but no one had the guts and the courage to ask. "Look, we're not ready to ask, right?" And they opened their beaks. And then, when the contributor's request arrived, "Oops, let's go on this ladder."

and then they put the extension for July if I'm not mistaken that the technical note 4.0 that happened this is

So, just to point you out on two points, the specific field about what is the value of the merchandise, which is the transparency of the margins, and the other is this complaint of the board of directors and the request to position themselves as things go, the project, the difficulties, to make it tangible for Receita Federal, the secretary, and

Then, on top of that, he deliberates, along with the management committee, some delay in entering production in January. Because in today's linear reading, the electronic service score does not enter in January, the sale of immobiles does not enter, the sale of gas does not enter, the sale of water does not enter.

and the rest will enter the events the debt and credit notes the operations that companies need this is the question this is the answer that has to be taken there to the secretary Barreirinhas and he said it's really a problem here on top of what you're talking about there, right, like that, if

Was it CONFAS or was it the board of directors? Theoretically, there are people from CONFAS. They anticipate the business from ICMS to August. If they can't attend neither IBS nor CBS to January,

Why not postpone this deal soon? It's in the package too, because what is the vision of the recipe? No, in August everyone is ready. And then yesterday they even asked. So, CONFAS signaled this, right? By not postponing this adjustment. It's an isolated issue, so let's separate CONFAS from the Federal Recipe.

Who says everything is ready is the receipt. Yes, I say what we are talking about. The management committee is assuming that we are not ready, there is a problem. It is that the majority or the part there were from the farm secretaries who are representing the states today in the management committee. Yes, it's true. So they know that there at CONFAS.

There is no way to unlink it to FAS, as a board of directors, although they are different bodies, but they are the same people who are there. So, it's a contradiction, because you are anticipating in practice a requirement that would only be for January, now in August, including an obligation on ICMS.

that was planned for 2029. I questioned that. Will it really be the Big Bang? Will it not authorize notes without IBS/CBS? What is the volume of notes you are receiving today? He said: "It's not like that, okay?" "There are many companies that are not ready yet." "Oh, so you think the government will risk not having revenue from the companies at the time of the election?"

So there is this fear there too, on the other side. Jorge, we have a lot of producer notes, Bruno must have too, right? That are issued by Cefaz. Not even the notes in that series 890 issued by Cefaz are highlighted by CBS/BS. Exactly.

And then with the postponement of the blessed technical CNPJ there for January, the poor producer who doesn't issue a note today, there's no way to test it, he's going to come in. Valendo. Valendo too.

is crazy people if there are more cases of this one, send me that I put it in the document if there are more cases of this one, except for harmonization of the laws for producers, the states A, B and C, issue, require note and counter note, the other

The other doesn't even require the note, like Goiás, he dispenses if the producer, if the buyer has how to issue to the producer, he issues the note to the producer, not even the fiscal note requires. So, each state works in a way, it speaks without harmonization and there is none. About harmonization and the last change of the CMF adjustment,

It's because it doesn't exist and it won't exist. The board of directors has already given up trying to negotiate with the states, that's why he made the adjustment in CNF number 20, because each state will make its own decision, will decide if it wants a note, if it makes the adjustment in the appuration or if it will have to issue a note. If it gets out, if it doesn't get out, it's crazy, my God.

Let's evolve here. I already talked about this market loss issue, elasticity, I love the example. Here at home I buy medicine for my mother on the internet and sometimes the site is bad, then I go there personally, I ask for the medicine, the site is cheaper. I do the same price in the store, because they say that there is rent, there is this, there is that.

but it has a margin to be able to follow the price of the site in the store. Pharmacy, pharmaceutical, which is a sector, yesterday we had an anchor there in the pharmaceutical sector saying that their margin is small. Well, and of course, the consumer will have to... Let's resurrect, I'm sure, not the tax officials of Sarney anymore,

the tax officers, but the granddaughters of the tax officers of Sarney are you, the granddaughters. If there is an increase in price coordinates, we will have government intervention. And then I pass... The fact that we have been there for a long time, with the government, we have certain freedoms, right? And I asked this question: "Man, look, I sent this presentation, another one before this, about

What is the expectation of the board of directors regarding Bernard's speech? To position myself in relation to the speech, he said: "Look, we are really analyzing and we don't rule out creating an organization to control this, because Proconi has no attribution to inspect profit, profitability, it's price. Profitability is another story. It would be maybe the Senacon.

So the government, the board of directors thinks that if there is a need, they will have to create it. But it's not that simple to create an organization like that. I'll show you what we have in terms of international precedents. India implemented the GST, created an organization called Napa for price audit. It's a profit-making organization.

But the anti-profit is heavy for a free market economy, a democracy. Price control is a problem here in Brazil. We have already experienced this several times. But the government used Procon to follow the fuel prices. I don't know if you know, at the pilot company meeting, we found some...

companies in the sector, he said, look, I went through a lot, I bought a purchase, I asked for a purchase fee, I sell, anyway, only they asked for what would be the good, right, that we are used to, but they didn't have it, then you have to have asked for the judicial and there wasn't, right? Jorge, I have a question there in the chat for you, I don't know if you want me to read it or... Did you get to simulate this calculation in the system, is that it?

Even for us to advance in time, Jorge, it's already 3:40, I don't know if you have more topics there. Roberto, no, who is asking, isn't it, Merson? The telecom sector has already generated a spreadsheet of how this price would behave.

There is a discussion, I forgot to say, it was good for you to ask this question, because today the management committee, it's their words, they are turning around to find a place to put ICMS, IPI, IBS, CBS and IS in the DUNF, keeping A4.

It's a bit difficult because they already treat it as a reality, although it has not been sacrificed, because it is the moment's rest for them. But I didn't do it, someone here did this calculation, we included the ICMS at the base of the ICMS,

Jorge, to complement the question, I'll try later, I sent the message to stay there, even not knowing if the topic had already been debated.

but it's a little more context, it was a group of companies that I talked to, from pharmacy, right, from the pharmaceutical branch, that they were having difficulties doing this simulation, they were already simulating, right Jorge? So they weren't even able to authorize the grades, I didn't get to that stage yet, it was up to knowing if the colleagues here had

this simulation possible in these systems, here at SAP we couldn't, it was to know if there was really something more evolved. The pharmaceutical staff was having difficulties even authorizing and forming this composition. They came to talk about customization, something, I didn't want to go that way, that's why I brought the topic here to discuss with my colleagues.

Ogis, if you can get that print I sent you of the formula that is in the technical note, I don't know if you noticed or if you remember, the technical note 2025.002, version 1.0, it has the formula including these values, but it's down there, future implementation. The future has arrived.

So I'll alert you when I find something like that. Jorge, but this is a hammer hit, because if I'm not mistaken, there was a PLP in the House or Senate to change the Complementary Law 17. If I change the Candir law, does it fall to the ground? Yes.

Bruno, I also remember this PLP16 from 25, if I'm not mistaken, I even talked to another colleague who participated strongly in this debate,

And the expectation of this group was that it would not prosper this year. Expectations. Now with the election, as long as we don't define this, nothing will work. In reality, they are entering recess, I think it's the morning part, it comes back only in August, then it's already in the election, incompatibility and it's over, right? Only November. So, that's why this meeting is next week.

to see if it will be thrown forward, convincing Secretary Barreras or... Jorge, by your contacts, do you see the possibility of not including the CBS in the CMS calculation base? Look, I doubted at the time, but when I call the management committee, they say:

that they are already working on the hypothesis of changing the layout of the Danf, which is a business that they didn't even want to move, it's a sign that they already believe in this story. Not because they ... because they know the size of the theft that is in their box. And then they asked me if the companies agree with this, and I said: "No, I don't agree." And more than that, the time you will publish this will also hinder a lot of people.

We know the delay and the political implication. And the judicialization of this, people. Certainly, as it was done with Psicofins, you will enter with action. Yes. The thesis of the century. Exactly, Bruno. The chance of having a new thesis of the century for this topic, it is...

It's great. I see it that way. Our basic problem here is how do I treat this in the company, how will the company position itself, are we going to develop the blessed pricing for this, will there be a plan B, activated, approved, I have the price ready, does it mess with the price, mess with the site, mess with the market, with the distribution?

and the note that I wouldn't be prepared to do it Jorge here in Paraná there is a bill to be able to take the base is true what is the point like this even had an internal discussion here in the positive I was like this as we have plants in several states like this Paraná will have a price and the rest will have another price

And there's more to it. There's already this discussion. The IT, the consulting, says: "Cláudio, I need your specification of what you're going to want." I say: "For now, I want both things. In the future, I'll define what I'm going to use."

There was a map that said that there were six or seven states saying no, São Paulo was among them, and on the other side, two or three states from the north and northeast saying yes, we want it, and others did not position themselves. There is this story, really, for those who are at the Brazilian level, there will be a pricing for each group of states that are in favor and against it.

Claudio, you're there, just so I understand, Jorge, Claudio's contribution.

So, the preparation is being: states that positioned themselves as to the inclusion of CBS in the CMS calculation base, you are preparing this systemic adaptation, already for states that did not position themselves, it is not taking, is that it? Exactly. Because, come on, we have less than six minutes.

The point is that now the consulting is the price of gold. Either you start developing now and leave the two scenarios ready, or you will pay a lot to develop and do a series of tests later. Imagine doing all this integrated again.

because of these... it's insane. So we're already working on a plan B because of that. But did you get to simulate or are you still in detail and documentation? Documentation. Documentation, then I'll have to present a spreadsheet to be able to say how you're going to do one scenario or another.

I understand, Claudio. Thank you, Cano. This meeting that will take place next week with the pilot companies, this topic will be dealt with and there is a spreadsheet there that I will bring here at the next meeting or even before that, I publish it here in the group. Cool, Jorge. Well, logically the objective of this organization was to inspect

It is a profit-free water and there was a fine and public exposure of companies that did not exceed the margin. On our side here we have CAD, which is competition, Senacom, which is consumer defense. Senacom is federal, Procon is state, that's why we put Senacom here.

And the committee managed as a tax administration, so there is a company that does price research, an institute that does price research, requires the return of margin, apply fines and force immediate price reduction. The institute, no, an organization. After that, they created three more companies, four companies to deal with the subject, right? Oh, people, sorry.

one for investigation only, the NAPA for decision and the CCI for absorption of the new model. Basically, that's it. Investigate prices, demand a refund, apply a fine and force immediate reduction. So, what do I have here? Look at it, compare prices before and after, that's what I'm telling you about the inventory.

Adjust the real cost and then there is the criticism, ignoring inflation, which happened at the time, ignoring the inflation of inputs, the competitive dynamics and, of course, it generated legal insecurity. Because he's saying, "I'm going to check the increase, if it exceeds the justifiable." This justifiable is very ethereal, right? And I calculate the value, then I had to adapt the word profiteado, which is profiteering.

the most researched sectors: pharmaceuticals, retail, telecom, fuel, consumer goods, like here, right? Interesting. Invested companies, image disruption, compulsory reduction, okay?

Funny thing is that the recipe went to India to show the SPED, at the time they said: "This here in India will not work, it is very difficult to put here." They put the reform, corrected the reform, the route adjustment, and now they are putting a digital model in India.

So, we are talking here basically about what we have already discussed several times, what is the tax burden, what is involved in the price, what we have here of margin that affects competitiveness. So, we will have a governance of pricing, of margin modeling and how to communicate this to the market. Of course, when we do this,

and I'm doing simulations, looking at scenarios and following the competition, the market. Some questions. But what is important to highlight, people, is

What will be the role of the tech or CFO professional in relation to this new model? There are those who say that the CFO will need to model prices, simulate IBS, understand elasticity, monitor competition and avoid movements that seem opportunistic.

In turn, the tax office will have to document the price logic, ensure compliance, monitor regulatory risk, align legal with CFO. Yesterday, by luck, the CFO was the head of the tax office, so he already had the two concepts. And anticipate the government's movements, which is also a challenge today.

So, logically, to do all this, you will need tools for it. I know some companies that do this market monitoring, that hire professionals to do this work, especially in the beverage sector. But who hires is the commercial area of the companies, it's not tax, it's not the financial area. He wants to see the market. Ok?

Now I'm going to my presentation, ok Xis? Just debate, the people will still discuss. Does anyone want to say anything else about this topic? It will reverberate in the company, right?

It was a slipper, as they say in the Northeast. I just want to confirm, I think that Keila's comment here, Jorge, then we send it to you. We just checked that the XML of the fiscal note issued to the Secretary of Economy here in Goiás and in fact the VUSA note does not have BSBS. Well, he will say like this: August 3, mate.

Let's go, quick, guys. The assisted operation is a super important item, it changes a lot in terms of the concept that we will have to adopt from next year, from January, within the current schedule. So we have the emission process, the processing, the freezing, the release, the adjustments and the payment.

and then of course, the period of the generating factor, the current month, then we have the freezing, which is the moment of processing, the release of the apuration and the credits. When I'm in this process here and I come to the release, the fiscal is freezing here,

doing the purification, if you want to talk in the middle, you can. You who command. And at the same time, the tax officer will process all credits, appropriate what is in fact. Only he obeys a rule. Soon we will get to the rule. So looking at the company's operating routine, looking at today, looking at the future,

you have a chronological order, organization of documents, compensation of debts and credit of the period, you have the link of payments, the payment ID is a serious problem in the split payment, that's why there's all this discussion about who will be the owner of the platform. And yesterday came a question to me from the beverage sector that I even shared with Giz. I think it's interesting for us to talk about it, which is the following:

"My client owes me, I pay the interest because I was late, but I also owe him, so I'll make an account meeting and I won't involve the bank and Neves died." What a brilliant idea!

Isn't it fantastic? He owes me, I owe him. Let's close the account and a hug. This is the model today, people. The model that comes up ahead is not like that. It won't be like that. The government is not stupid. If there is a fine, there is a loan, if there is an tax, it wants this tax. There is no account of accounts anymore. I said that last year in February, there in Santa Catarina.

And there are people who still don't understand the DARK generation model linked to the tax document that separates the tax. Anyway, just to remind you that these accounting meetings or whatever name I gave, need to be mapped and adjusted to the new model. Remember the SPED? Ah, the special regimes died. And they died.

but then the companies asked for it in the digital model. Jorge, there's a point there, I don't know if that also has this situation, but the Barter operations. It's because I do the operation there, I supply seeds, inputs and such, and I compensate for that value later, with the value that I'm going to receive from the soy. And then, it doesn't count.

I know, this is in the hands of the leader of this business here. In fact, when you brought me, I took it to him. There is this process in the rural sector and in the civil construction sector. If you look at the Barter operation, it is characterized by a fine-paying contract, so each one is responsible for their debt.

The big problem in agro is that the income goes with the deferment and when it comes to receiving the return of the agricultural production, it comes with the tax. I've already seen the State positioning itself and defining how the fiscal documents that attract this operation have to be. I saw the answer to the consultation of this. Giz?

I was also going to make a consideration, who also went through a similar process was Sara, Bárbara and Flávio. They went through a similar process of evaluating the anticipation hits, that is, I anticipate, then I can't make a delivery, or that delivery was lower than the value that was anticipated, which would perhaps be adjustments made in the financial.

These adjustments, that's what we're trying to demonstrate here, that it won't be possible, especially when it's a debt creation, occurred by other linked operations, I won't be able to make this financial right. It's more or less, I'll have to generate the debt from that period with that initial operation,

and make this request for restitution, for compensation, in other words, but I won't be able to make these financial adjustments that we can do today. I think Jorge has already summarized these operations a little bit and here we have other situations also shared in the group. Well, just to close, the spread of loans, appropriation along the chain and the processing of transfers. This scenario

of the appropriation and the sequential order, the chronology, the order of liquidity in Article 53, which has not changed in relation to the complementary law, you can see that here is 53 still,

of compensation, of the balance to be returned to the IDS, of debts, of the IDS, of current and fact. So, the sequential order is this. This is very important because when you are doing the simulation, the anticipation of the calculation of the appuration, you will say: "Where is this credit?" "But this credit is not here, it is not in my sequence."

which is the case of RAD, for example, just to cite an example right out of the curve. RAD will not enter, but I have R$ 1 million. RAD, ok, but it will not enter this debt, only the debt constituted in the front, or behind, if there was. So, you need to understand this scenario, set the flow to be able to absorb the issue of the operation.

It's the image I brought last month, but with a correction. I talked to Yamada and he said: "Look, from 1 to 5 is freezing, please."

I said: "But what about 6 to 15?" "I'm doing the appuration." Then I said: "Yes, but from the point of view of the accounting office, as Giz says, and the companies, they will have to wait for you to bring the appuration if they don't have a backup, a plan B to do the appropriation, to do the appuration." "Yes, you have to wait." But he wants to separate what is freezing in fact, that no one does anything,

than the period from 6 to 15, which can be issued the debt and credit notes, the company can work in parallel. The rest is all the same. And so, the winning is on the 31st of the tax, which was in the case here, the period is April, here is May, it came on the 31st.

But the April credits will only be released in June. Everyone knows that, it's no news to anyone. Be careful with the adjustment events that will be made here to be able to sensitize this physical appuration.

The idea is not to leave it to the last day. Just be careful with the issue of released. In fact, if he is released, especially when talking to the fiscal, the fiscal will say, no, it's not released in June, we release it in May. It's that you won't use it in the May appuration, because maybe you'll hurry there on the 20th to generate the guide to pay, but they will say, we released it in May. But it's no use. It was in May of the 30th.

and the 30th I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall, I didn't fall,

Then I generate my IR tax on the day. But it's IR Jorge, not IRPF. I'm kidding. Well, let's go. Adjustment Cine F49, guys, the summary of the opera, okay? This item here came up precisely because of this problem.

School 1, then they understand the state, states that define the storm via tax document, so they have to issue the tax document. School 2, state that speaks to make the storm via purification, via the account,

via adjustment at the end of the month, those adjustments. Have you guys already done this work that I already mentioned to you there in January? Get the credit and other debts appuration folder and set up as in the scenario of adjustments, debt and credit note, have you already done this homework?

to know the volume and when you will have to do these works, when you will issue these notes to let me at the end of the year. This is an interesting case lesson, I would like to know this work of yours later.

Jorge, Bárbara is standing up too. Let me ask a question while Bárbara opens the microphone. Jorge, I have the adjustment, you were commenting on the CNF adjustment, they asked me this question and I didn't know how to answer.

If you don't know, nobody knows. No, there's a lot I don't know. I can have, for example, the states, the adjustment in general, it must be followed, but each state also still has its own... The criteria of the UF, that phase. Exactly, the criteria of the UF, it can.

I go back to the question that Bruno talked about CONFAS, about these organizations, the power they have to unite these states so that we avoid leaving what we are and continue with a greater flurry than we have. In fact, nothing has changed. I always say that we added two taxes, two taxes. We haven't taken anything out yet.

So the answer he gave is: there is no such union that you are thinking about. The states are complaining that they are with

they don't have a definition or they are insecure about the new one because it is a government agency and it has limitations too, of system and people so he wants to at least guarantee the process that he already has today so that's why they won't adopt this

My question is, does the State have to internalize this INF adjustment? Yes. If I take today, who internalized it? I think two States, two or three, if I'm not mistaken. And the deal is for in 15 days. Then in this line, I don't do anything if he doesn't internalize it?

You continue with the existing model. That's right. I mean, the way it is today. This came about to equalize the operation so that you don't have to issue two notes, one for ICMS and one for IBS. If he didn't internalize it, there will be a second note to attend ICMS.

And then the suggestion is what? I open a consultation with my State and ask him if he will internalize or not, if he did not internalize, no, no, I say like this, if I apply from day three, the procedure? That's it. The problem is that he has the State and takes a year, right? No, a year? If it were just a year? Then again, the other question that I commented that I think that we were reinforcing.

because Katsu, the blessed of the management committee and CONFAS, do not define this right away. For God's sake, right? A thing is the management committee,

IBS, CBS, or IBS, or CBS. The problem is ICMS, right? The ICMS, and then it doesn't have the attribution. No, perfect, but then CONFAS has, they are basically the same people there, the Secretary of the Farm that is representing the State together with the committee, my God, there is no logic.

and good George answers just lie this doubt that I sent here I'll read it to you that I sent in the chat if we can use it for the purposes of the assisted operation test the beta environment because according to our tax solution the API is not bringing all the data is taking a long time which theme are you dealing with assisted operation of which tax

Of the two. No, it's different. The one from IBS, they just listed, published, bringing new companies to phase 2. The habilitation period, I have until August 31st to put the names of the people. And from there we will start to do the API testing of the operation, which is the one I showed you.

Sorry, from CBS. CBS, did you hear? When was CBS? No, CBS is not working, it's not working. And IBS too, I'm talking to Jacqui here in Yamaha, it's not working either. It gave a Zika, access is all messed up. Skip this part.

Jack is laughing, we were talking here at the meeting. Guys, who is testing here, just for us to validate who is in the watched operation of CBS, of IBS, sorry, I think Yamaha, there are more people here too, right? I don't think there's anyone here from P&G, is there anyone from P&G here? I think not. There's me here.

Hi Edson, you know if people are getting ahead in the tests, because I and Jacqui are here, I'm without access because I just got in, but the people from Yamaha are saying it's not working. The worst thing is that I don't know who's playing this excuse here, but I can confirm. You can confirm too, please, let's use our group there from GFES too, for us to unite and see the beat, honestly.

Beto already opened a complaint, we opened a call and we are here charging the APIs, the credit API

an API that is not bringing the information either, so we have to make a call and I'm trying to activate the colleagues via WhatsApp, also, right? So, this scenario that things are being done, in my view, this conversation with Jorge, who just said the call he's going to have, has already been delayed for a long time.

for a long time, that they are not talking to each other, that the federal ones are presenting things in the lives as if everything was ready and we don't have the basic one, which is the tax document, which is the start, so I'm not even going to dwell on it anymore, because I think that here we are messing around, doing therapy with things that we are not going to add. Here we are very focused on helping you to try to solve and see what we can do in response, okay?

By the way, the meeting, they were asking for a meeting, the leaders of the pilot, we are not leaders of the pilot, but they asked for our participation, okay, Justine? Yes, because tomorrow you have an agenda, right? If you can participate. Pass me the time, then I'll coordinate here to participate, yes. Okay. Oops, I advanced here, right? Yeah.

Ok, this subject, folks, we stressed a lot, I wanted to show you, I reduced, I just put the questions and answers that happened at the CTE meeting. In parallel to the meetings of the electronic fiscal note, there is also the CTE meeting and these were the discussions, they are quick, so

First question: Are successive registries valid? First attempt to address the unlocalized, second the absent recipient and third the delivery. All events are registered, not only the last one that is valid.

There will be no automatic replication, unsuccessful event will not be replicated for previous CTEs. Replication for electronic physical notes is uncertain. There is internal technical forecast, but it is not confirmed. I know that for many this is a bit strange, but some companies have these issues of attempt and error of delivery of goods. That's why I'm sharing with you. Answers about DCE.

"Ceará and Rio Grande do Norte do not accept the DCE as an original document." Look at that story of the autonomy of the states, right? "There may be future validations to restrict the use by PJ, a contributor to ICMS, physical person in recurring situations, commercial intent. Updates will be treated as being done by Paraná and passed on to the group, which was Paraná that developed the DCE." Oops, sorry. When you need an IPF, right?

or "reborn" Bankard. By Law 6078/2026, when you hire a TAC or a TAC-equipment, the registration of the operation and generation and the receipt of the CIOT must be done through a payment institution authorized by the Central Bank and authorized by the NTT to issue the CIOT. This is exactly the role of the IPF.

In other words, the autonomous contractor goes to the IPF. The receipt account is the driver's own, the payment and Cioti in the same flow, services that come together, balance, value, fee, supply, repayment and reconciliation are usually part of the IPF package. Why?

The decision flow is fast, to decide on the way, in a few seconds, the operation is in order, the operation is contracted by TAC or Equipanato, its NTC that registers, generates the CIOT directly through the NTT system, yes, the registration and the generation of the CIOT go to the IPF with payment on the account of the driver's own titularity.

Note that what defines the path is not the form of payment, but the presence or not of an author in the operation. Own fleet and hiring between companies follow the direct register. Operation with an author follows the IPF because the proper generation of the CIOT in this case is done by it. And to close, MDF and CIOT mandatory.

COT does not apply to self-loading transport with its own vehicle. NTT load criteria are insufficient, risk of indebted framing. Indebted auctions, here part of the complaint, right? Indebted still occur by old standards, divergent interpretations, fractional operations treated as loading,

plate operation, example: vehicle failure, you have to close the Ciot, new general agent, foreign contractor, there is no Ciot forecast, empty vehicle, there is no Ciot forecast, ETCs between themselves, NTT channel does not allow, but IPF allows greater flexibility. Offline contingency, elimination of IPEC,

Fiscal response: proposal is already in process in CONFAS, adjustment in F26, offline contingency will be created here, the meeting was before the adjustment, ok? EPEC will be eliminated, current problem: CTE transmitted without return and CTE in contingency, duplicity. Cancelation deadline can expire. Offline contingency will resolve the duplicity.

CTS Simplified Grouping by UF, Fiscal Answers, Confirmation of the proposal's full delivery, without divergences, IBS/CBS in the items is validated. The proposal returns the requirement that the service start and end in the same unit.

the same federal unit, in replacement of the previous restriction by the same municipality, making operational the grouping for large volumes.

Technical innovation: IBS and CBS groups will be listed in the items of each service in a similar way to the item of the note. This structure has already been discussed and validated by the technical operation teams, making the change feasible from the fiscal point of view.

Tax note via: "Tax plate will not be used to bind the buyer. New mechanism is in development to correctly bind the buyer." Payment in advance of freight: "Less people complained about it." Then the technical note will be published creating: "Indication in the CTE for early receipt according to the CTE to document the consumption of the value in advance." According to the CTE.

International transport, the summary of the opera. The management committee wanted the electronic CTE to deal with this. There is a problem of protocols, internal and treated standards. So the study is for another electronic model to be defined. And the NTT, minimum level in auctions. CIOT does not apply to the own cargo, foreign contractor and empty vehicle. Loading load criteria are insufficient.

indebted payments and plate change to close. These are the treatments to solve these problems. There are some news: Cioti validation rule, road mode, the rule is restricted exclusively to the road mode of cargo. Type of issuer: service provider of transport, globalized CTI transport or own carrier.

Obligatory data: The CIOTE data group must be informed when the above conditions are satisfied. This same rule should be implemented in the future for the easy fiscal note to be developed. Easy fiscal note, that of the application. Updates.

we had the technical note, we had the package, but before that we had the practical guide. The practical guide has 32 news, there wouldn't be time to deal with that, we'll deal with it in a more Latin way. He's adopting... -Dor, before you change, let me ask you a question about CTL that we were discussing here. When you talk about TAC,

He always says that to generate the presumed credit, the buyer has to generate a document to be able to make the credit entry.

So it would be a CT, a contra-CT, the document that should generate, the TAC would generate your CTE there, from the operation, and, let's talk about the contractor carrier, would generate a contra-CT to be able to generate the presumed credit?

this process I have to check, I don't follow this meeting, so put it on paper that I'll go after it. Okay, I've seen the technical note of the debt note now, right, of the advance payment and I think this will be good because what happens a lot there is the advance payment, right, of loans, it's a very well structured process.

In the situation, bringing to our reality of the non-contributing rural producer, he linked the issue of the confirmation of payment and the event by the buyer of the request for the presumed loan. Wouldn't they be similar in the case of CTE?

here in anticipation? No, I'm talking about the presumed credit of TAC, the autonomous carrier, right? Because I think the application of this issue of confirmation of payment, of the operation and of the credit request, which is like an acceptance, I think it applies to both articles, right? Both freight and, remembering the complementary law, right? Yes, yes.

The problem is how to operationalize it with TAC. With TAC and with the producer, right? The producer we are discussing here, because today we are talking about issue of note, poor thing is not prepared. Who will say to send the event? So, I said that yesterday. It was Monday. As he will use the Fiscal Note easily, he will have the application.

But then I even mentioned the sugar cane model when the electronic note came in and it was still on paper. Then what the sugar cane did, it made a war room, the producer arrived and there was someone there to be able to put the note in the system to make the whole process viable. What will happen is that companies that have these large volumes, or even small ones, but there will be someone there to be able to guide the rural producer and TAC how to operationalize this.

the service taker and the product. 40 million documents per month. So we're assuming that he's going to be doing this, right? I don't know, his accountant or someone he's going to hire to do this for him, right?

and he doesn't do it so there's a discussion some companies have talked about this story, right, that the company itself will be assuming to do it in the name of the producer and has organized to do this in the name of the producer I think the request here Bruno is

the event to be done by the company, for example, the company then receives when it issues the note and when it pays it sends the event and this is enough for the management committee to join because it depends on the client to do it, right, rural producer or TAC, to do this event

Exactly. Even the anticipated payment process, imagine him making the debit note there, so, there would have to be an alternative from the buyer, that is, the industry, the companies, to do this process by the rural producer.

or by TAC itself, apparently the technical note I don't think it foresees this hypothesis. It will happen that the carrier stops because he didn't receive it, right? Will that happen? Then you will emit it. This is like you were saying in the case of TAC, 70% is paid in advance, right? Otherwise he doesn't even run the transport.

Anyway, this process has to be redesigned. Is there a discussion, Jorge, in the forums you've been with? They are believing that TAC and the rural producer will take over and will do it. It's the market. Okay. What a world these people live in, my God. It's like the pedagogy, that he didn't think about how to treat the companies that pay the freight

pedagogy, now they will study another way than the model they thought, take the paper code and go there or then activate the operator to have a way to receive the authorization code to be able to go there on the site of the road and do the habilitation. They didn't think, each operator turns with their customers. Well guys, to finish here,

What is practical? It is absorbing the issue of the CNPJ-ALPHA, traceability of tax benefits, the inclusion of the field 7, it created the complete trail, document, adjustment and appuration, official recognition of the reduction documents,

documents issued with a reduction of values, quantities, temporary writing, I said 32 items, I only put 5 here, ok? Stricter rules for processing debts and credits, adjustments, deductions and transfers now require mathematical coherence, document link, compatibility with written operations and special treatment for third party documents. Guys, be careful with this.

Version 3.2.3 closes historical breaches, the document itself only enters, the document of the third only leaves. This is giving a name to everyone, I already charged Yamada, who is the coordinator of GT48 now. Reduction documents can have a zero quantity, the SPED eliminates ambiguity, who emits and who writes now has clear rules. So it is like this:

I had separated the picture, but I want to talk about this subject in the next meeting, if we can, we will talk about it throughout the month, because this changes a little the concept that you are adopting, that is adopted in Brazil for the own issuance or third party.

Here is a summary for those who want to do the individual study work later. The item I just mentioned is this 11.

In addition, we had the adjustments, the biggest expected impact was the adjustment 49, which technically the government, the State Government, the Board of Directors and the CONFAS are opening their hands to deal with the State in the way that each State wants to deal with the issue. And here, basically, each subject related

to these adjustments, what they are about, and here it is talking about patronization of guaranteed notes and repairs. 18, the reverse logistics of agro-toxics, the states did not open their hands to the emission of the note. Natural gas and biomethane, the adjustment in F22 of the DANF gas, the approval of the DANF gas for the authorization of use,

The CTOS DACT, and be careful with the CTOS DACT, or better said, the OS, because it puts some important things for the contingency emission. If it is a contingency emission, you will need to store the DACT.

has to be kept, so there has to be an operational treatment to know if it is both the DAC-TOS and the other, if it is offline, will have to store, something I never expected to talk about in life, but will have to deal with this topic. Here is just an adjustment of the exceptions of governance and regularity of registration and environmental registration,

Here is the other part of the CT for the storage of the DACTE. And the orientation note explaining how to write down the gas note. Then the property will come too.

is

is the most impactful item of the C-100 that changes how the system is treating the writing of the tax document, okay? But anyway, I still asked Yamada to take a look at this scenario because I found it a little strange what they put here in the practical guide, okay? I don't know if you got to study this

this new guide. I know that not because you are involved with the tax reform. Jorge, let me just ask you a question, is there any negotiation in this case for that case that Bruno had put there in the group demanding CFOP?

in the operations. No. ICMS indication, you think, even I don't even know how that grade was approved.

Because probably when you generate in the tax exped, it will generate with zero value. It is pending here in the state's fine mesh. He's saying he's going to accept not having given in relation to ICMS, which is what I saw at that time. But this one is not changed in this one, right? That's what I'm asking you, these changes that have been made now are not contemplating this, right?

I even commented, at that time I passed, he has this... wait, let me see if I can find it. So he will accept to take it zero. Yeah, because I complained to Yamada, if I put zero, it's given.

and the volume increases, it has to be a bare field, with nothing to be able to accept. He said: "Let's discuss this, if there is really a repetition, we will change." So, but then going back to the question I put there in the chat, we discussed it in the previous one, right? I'm talking about a debt, a mortgage, right? Which is a fact, is it a generator? No.

is calculation base, right? The correct term is calculation base of BSEPS only, it has no relation with ICMS, because water loads, this note has to have this FOP, operation nature and take the ICMS tag, being that it is not in the adjustment in F49, we are not talking about harmonization,

So it would have to be a debt note exclusively for IBS/CBS and that little rule that is there in the technical note, it should be rejected. Equalization has emerged so you don't have to make two notes, one for ICMS and one for IBS. If you make one note to meet both, one side will be with the PENGAM.

It makes sense to talk about losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, losses, Losses, Losses, Loss, Loss, Loss, Loss, Loss, Loss, Loss, Loss, Loss, Loss, Loss, Loss, Loss, Loss, Loss, Loss, Loss, Loss, Loss, Loss, Loss, Loss, Loss, Loss,

Why is it entering ICMS? This is a long story, even the slashes will roll over talking about it. But then again, this is not written in the technical note, this is not written in any legislation that this note has to have CFOP. True, you're right. And it shouldn't? And why is this note being approved like that, my God? It has to change the regulation, it's there in the regulation. One of the rules is there.

You have to change the regulation of the ICMS because I have to equalize the multi-bill too. So, the adjustment of this NF-49 would have to come... But if he regulates the multi-bill, he will charge ICMS for this multi-bill. Not necessarily. The future sale and delivery, the fiscal note of simple billing has ICMS. But do you remember when there was inflation that we had to equalize?

indexing better indexing the date of delivery has to update the retroactive tax the date of billing I don't know people like that but somewhere it has to be at least in the technical note saying that this note has to be the P because it's not from my head or from the head of someone who has to indicate that it has to be the P

I'm going to make this special request for you, okay? Not for me, for everyone! Everyone is the same! Bruno, let me say something here, we are still without rules, you generated this note when? No, it wasn't me, they generated it against me, I received the sold note, the note is pending for writing, I couldn't even write it down, because how am I going to send this note to the SPED?

I don't think so, right? That's what I think. I think the scenario is because there was no validation rule, he's accepting it, he sent a note to the CFOP 949, he accepted it, it's a note, right? And the worst thing is that the person generated it as a kind of supplement, it's a sales note, he used CFOP for sales and industrialization.

So that's the problem, right? He didn't even make this distinction of using a 949 as Jorge said that apparently it would be what Amada recommended. 5949, right? 5949.

So that's it, this rule is missing. I just didn't refuse yet because I was waiting for Jorge to bring us the positioning. And I only have 90 to refuse now, right?

Bruno, let's leave his challenge there. Let's go. But if someone else is issuing these debt notes, in this case, or multi-bill credit, are you issuing with CFOP? I will validate and tell you, Bruno.

I'm already issuing the tests. Bruno, what I knew is that everyone who is issuing interest and mortgage and even anticipation is demanding FAP. Then what we will certainly fall into this check, which was the question that I didn't want to bother you, Jorge, I just wanted to ask you if you were in this correction. Perfect, thank you guys.

Jorge, I just wanted to ask a quick question. Yesterday we had the publication of the prorogation of the technical note 08, which prorogated version 2 of the DANFAS to 3/8. One question: to issue a tax return within the national portal of the emissor, there are no reform fields, will this be released from 3/8?

I thought it was strange, because they came to question me here, because we have a situation in a city hall there, as it is a service service for a specific hospital and we only have this activity there in that municipality, we haven't brought this parameterization into the system yet, so we do this manual emission.

and it's already on the national station. So, for me to issue with the reform camps, for me not to be charged the fine there on the 3rd of August, the national portal doesn't have the camps. It doesn't even have the CECLASTIB, it only has the NBS and the National Tax Code.

That's why the board of directors called me now, the representative, for the meeting next week, for us to take all these flaws, because this note, which is theirs, Receita Federal, Barreirinha, the whole group, they will tell the public that everything is fine, and it's not.

This is one of the issues that I think even the GIS has already spoken to them at the Federal Reserve about the inconsistency of their discourse with reality. No, this is a subject, this complaint is what Alberto is talking about. But we have a joint act. If in a little while, on the third day, there is nothing ready to be sent, how can I validate or do anything? This is very clear in the joint act. If the environment is not ready to send, how do I do it?

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We've already got six municipalities that are already changing, asking to send the DPS on the 3rd of August. So the communication is coming here every 15 days, already publishing here for us to make the adaptation to the DPS, very likely because the city hall did not fit in.

and it's running there to be able to, in August, at least with the implementation to send it to the National, through the DPS. So we saw here several movements here from the prefectures that were not with the reform camps, migrating there, not to the issuer, but to demand from the DPS that we send the DPS. Because the DPS has everything, so let's go with the DPS. Exactly.

Bruno, are you there? Have you already gone to have coffee? Yes, master. The practical guide, this 323, exception 12, from January 1, 2027, for the tax document issued for credit notes, such as value reduction or quantities, have you ever heard of the term analogy?

field code situation equal to 9 or 10, the fields reg, operation indicator, emitting indicator, participation code, participant, mod code, code city, doc number, key and date are mandatory, what was not mentioned is not mandatory. Have you ever heard of the analogy? If the FOP is not mandatory for these special grades, then you can do the test.

I was confused. You wanted to say, "I will write, but these are not mandatory, he will accept." Section 12 left us, as you say, "as never seen in this country".

to write a tax return of the third in my exit broke my legs right and then I wait for it because how are we going to

mine I'll have to throw the note at my cost by the wrong value and when the third adjust the note that I'll be able to launch and adjust my cost, right, it's going to blow up my whole cost there, that's over with

as you say, with us here, because I don't know, Bruno, how you're thinking about dealing with the receiving of merchandise, but the receiving of us in agro, the reduction of value, for me, is the way for us to adjust the higher value issued.

So we discussed this a lot here, because basically every truck that arrives has a difference. There is a difference in humidity, classification, everything. I will have to do all the processes there, this adjustment.

And then the way we can make this adjustment, the value reduction would be a way for the producer to adjust, but I would already enter through the liquid, I would pay the rural fund, everything through the liquid, I would pay the life funds, I would pay all the others through the liquid, now

And then there's that question, this credit note, it's issued by the issuer, that is, the producer would have to make this adjustment in the amount or value

And if he didn't demand it, just like it's in section 12, to write this down, this supplier's note, I could simply adjust my entry and the supplier would issue this fiscal note only for the purpose of being BS. And he would adjust his life there and we would already have our stock correct. So, we were discussing this just this morning, right? Because I'm going to have to write down the entry

by effectively receiving and adjusting both tax, accounting, financial, everything, stock, everything by liquid, and only it will be different from the tax document. As for that, I don't see the problem that I've done this my whole life.

and it's not so the problem is that now it created a mechanism it created a mechanism that is the adjustment note beauty it will issue the adjustment note and it's forcing me to write this note then I'll have to wait for it to issue it to then adjust my stock I write it down I adjust my stock as if it were a chain account one compensating the other

Just like today I already have a problem to receive a supplementary note, I'll have to wait for him to issue a adjustment note? I came to this conclusion here. Never again, don't worry about me.

We were discussing it because the industry is still done by liquid. Here, for the scenario where the producer is not the issuer of the note, I already make the entry, because we issue the note. But the scenario where I have a physical note, our system is automated to enter with the base on the note. Then I make the subsequent adjustment, that is, return or supplement.

So for us it would end up just replacing the return note with a credit note, but the difference is that I have to wait for the issuer to do it. I'm going to take this subject there with BAT, BAT is Sousa Cruz, right? To see how they are dealing with this, because then we take it to the physicist and say it is operationally impossible.

Now, I know the time has passed, but a topic that we discussed a lot here is that event of aging in transport. Because it, unlike other events, adjusts the amount, it adjusts the value of the debt, of the credit, it becomes credit, but it is a tax document for IBS, but there is no ICMS, there is no PIS, there is no COFINS.

That's it. How is this going to reflect on the other tributes, this event? Do I have to submit another tax document to the other? The scenario we're in is that. Or as we were talking here with Keila, I already enter by writing the note by liquidating.

Something they wanted to avoid, having two notes, with this lack of integration of states or equalization, will be two documents. I was going to say that Jorge, we are so in a hurry to unite, because the way the movement is going, it will be two documents for tax effects.

And we have this... We are here on July 15th, we don't know where we're going and I have to say that I still have to develop. 7 RP for January 1st? Where will that be possible? January 1st? January 3rd, right? No, January 3rd, 8th. January 3rd, 8th? Where? Where will I be able to do that, guys? And look, I've been talking about this for a while, right? And nothing again.

Because there is no clear definition. You look, like Jorge is there, Giz is inside the board, inside the Federal Receipt, and the questions that are asked, there is no regulation, there is no place for that. It seems that they are learning as the contributor asks. "I hadn't thought about it, wait, let me see how it works." That's right.

So, but the insecurity of this is how do I adjust my RP, how do I adjust my processes, how am I going to say, oh supplier, you need to change your way of doing it, oh client, I'm going to have to change my process here. He's going to say, but where did you get this from, from your head? No, it was because Jorge Campos told me, so you adjust it there, client.

I'm proud of you Jorge. Because it's not written, you know? The blessed one from the postcard there, which was good, positive, I think it was very cool, but it should already be in version 2, 3, 4, 5, because all this that we are discussing here should be being updated in the postcard.

at least right at least the version 3 was ready but then there was a meeting and it had to be adjusted they found out that there was more to adjust more things people this 3/8 Jorge is impossible for us to be able to attend the next meeting Jorge you go down to the table there and say the contributors said they can't postpone this business

So, the contributors have to sign the office, right? Now? Where do I sign? Exactly, pass the list. Pass the list! Okay, Xis, take it from there because I'll have to come in the other meeting. Okay then, okay guys. I don't know, I think Roberto, who had questions, does anyone have any more questions? No?

So, ok, guys, I promise here that I will try to run so we can meet our schedule here. We don't have so many points left, let me just... Are you seeing my screen? I think so, right? Bruno, you saw the answer to the Jury and Salary note, right? I'm seeing here...

I was going to ask you, Keila, because we were in a meeting these days with a solution company, he was even commenting to me, he was talking about the concern, what is easier for the government to move to CFOPRA when we upload the file, the file to disregard these tax notes for the tax SPED, which I find much simpler, than us in the RP dealing with this and already sending the file without it?

Because it is not a fact generator, it has no incidence of ICMS, so it should be considered unlawful. It is very difficult to change the fiscal note to remove the requirement of CFOP, which changes the structure. So, just dispense this type of document from the tax office.

And then the RPs don't even send it, right? The RP, for example, here we have a separate solution, for example, the Atonsons. Atonsons will simply have a tag there, the tax note, model X, type C, etc. It's not even sent to the SPED, it doesn't set up the SPED file, that's it. Exactly. Now, no, I have to write, generate, send, saying it's not worth it. What a mess, people.

Guys, let's go to the last topics here. I recently brought, I don't know if everyone looked at their grades, right? Now in July, a publication came out again from the classification,

You saw that I commented on resuscitation, compensation, how these notes will be of influence, so in the company you have to start thinking about someone to monitor these notes, to also be following what is your status

in the tune, precisely for the use of those compensation tools, restitution, which will be prioritized by this note. When it is now in December, the tune will complete one year, so we will already have the history of 12 months and then the tax benefits can be requested for those who are with the extra, which is the design of benefiting the contributor accordingly.

All right, here is more informative, so we can know about this publication. Probably all of you received a note with the note. The last two points here are the alphanumeric CNPJ, the government maintained the date of implementation, that is, from July 31 the first alphanumeric CNPJ will be implemented,

But in the basements, this is the official, this is the basement, the basement has an implantation that is a multi-chrome. So what will happen? It will release on the 31st, but this alphanumeric will be released to those companies that have more than 999

CNPJs, that is, it will give priority to the most number of contributors. So, on the last day of July, it will be, in principle, for the white of Brazil, which is the one that has more than 999, and then it will start to do the test environments with this alphanumeric. Then in August,

it will monitor this information and then it will be released to the other companies. So, that's how it goes. You won't see the grade pop out of nowhere with alphanumeric, okay? They informed that they will be done gradually. We only know this because we are there in the discussion of the electronic fiscal grade. Because this is really from the fiscal, what comes official is this one.

when it's on the 31st, Keila will open a new CNPJ of someone, will open a CNPJ with alphanumeric, but it's not, ok? We know that they will make this criterion for the new CNPJs, ok? This is the backstage, this is the official, anyway, we have to be running there between

from July 31 to August to adapt the systems to accept the CNPJ alphanumeric, okay? All right, it's new to no one, right? I think that one fell here, it came in again, okay? Gi, let me ask a question about alphanumeric. For example, I have CNPJs here, right, Colgate,

which is theoretically far from reaching 999.

If I open a new unit today, do you understand that it will already be alphanumeric or will it not be necessary because I haven't reached 999 yet? According to the fiscal, the alphanumeric would already be created, which is what he is describing here in this official statement. If we read who will create, it will be creating an alphanumeric. But there in the backyards we know that it will not be that.

They will release the CNPJs that still have assets, that are not alphanumeric, they still have numbers, they will release them for this... Imagine, the accounting office, all the time, asks to open a new CNPJ. So, there are small companies all the time. So, if you imagine, on the first day of August, there were several companies opening CNPJs.

So I would understand if I read this statement, I understand that on the first day you open this new company, this new branch, it would be the alphanumeric.

But at the fiscal meetings they said: "No, we won't do that. We will first give to the big companies, which is the Banco do Brasil, then to other larger companies that have subsidiaries that exceed this number, and then open to the general population."

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The physical, the rural producer, TAC, the liberal professional, everything would have CNPJ, so then it would consume, I think their base there, they would need to release this alphanumeric. When they extended it, now it's kind of... Exactly. It's possible to work with a more quiet schedule, right? Exactly, so that's it, okay? So, we...

We are showing you what we know about the path we are on. And this publication probably

Bruno won't even let it happen, you know? They will leave maybe the little ones who are opening, the simple companies, finally, opening and seeing that it is not yet out of the alphanumeric, but entering calmly. But that's it, it was the breath that gave, when they published that for me, it gave me a relief, let's stop talking about renting, of other things that were only generating much more

giving a holophot for things that are not priority at the moment and focusing on these operations that we are saying here that are from the company's day to day. But anyway, your systems have to be prepared to receive an alphanumeric note at any time from the month of August, okay? Otherwise, it eliminates one thing or another.

And the last point I brought up is the issue of digital platform retention. I don't know if Mercado Livre is here now, who uses it? Fernanda is here from Casbahia, what else? Let me comment a little on a publication that already exists, Paula is here too.

But this is a lot for the issue of digital platforms. So what happened? There was already the payment, the collection of the source's retention, the income tax, in relation to the correction and remuneration commission paid to legal people on digital platforms. So you made a sale, there was a retention process. What happens?

The big question is that the tax office now wanted to bring the identification, in fact, the information of the collection of the tax by dispensing the retention by the payer. So, what happens? Let me put an example here, it will be easier for you to understand.

This issue of retention in relation to the commission already exists, which is 1.5% in relation to the commission, correction, this already works. What happens is that in the operationalization of digital platforms, this process was all under the control of the digital platform, but retention was mandatory to be done in the collection

by the seller. Deep down, this didn't happen that way, because the obligation of retention was from the seller and not from the digital platform. This publication came to

give an option for the platform itself to make this retention. So here I brought an example, a platform commission, sales of 10 thousand, the platform commission is 1,200, had an IR of 1.5, so 18 reais, in the traditional model the seller is legally the source of payment of the commission.

So the seller who made the payment. So I had R$ 1,200, I had the tax withdrawn by the seller of R$ 18, when the platform paid for it, it paid R$ 1,182. And then the seller who did the collection of the DAF.

What happens is that in practice it didn't work like that. The marketplace is the one that normally does all the payment receivment from the consumer, the commission discount, it does all the part, all the rate process, and then it only pays the balance. And then it stays there, although legally the seller is the paying source, who controls the financial is the digital platform.

And then what did the fiscal bring with this publication of this IENE, which is valid from July, I will confirm here in the IENE, I don't remember if it's from July or August.

but it gives the option for the platform to fully assume the collection. So it acts as the payment centralizer, it will make the option that it will make the retention, it will apply the systematics in the operations, it will formalize this in the Re-Inf FD,

And then in this case it will be the same thing, but now it will pay the same value of 18, but the collection will be done by the digital platform itself. Let me look here at IN right when it will be done. People who use the digital platform, I don't know if they are following this process, have they looked at this case of change, because it has an effect both in the formalization

of this Iene, as well as all the formalization of acceptance, that is, you have to choose this front, that you want to do the retention itself. Let me just look for the date to put it here.

People who are there, who use platforms, who want to or don't look, or those who are here are not the ones responsible for this front. Have you ever seen this situation of the IR being taken from the source, this change? 23/31, let me just put it here so I can show you the date of the option's obligation.

I ended up not putting it in the material sorry on the first of October ok for the current year if you want to use it already in the current year the platform can be used from the first of October with the formalization until November 15th so the option from the first of October to November 15th

this change is being made, but it will actually be valid from January 2027, okay?

Guys, that's what we planned for you, I don't know if you have any other topics, always remembering to put things you would like to see in our chat, check out my accounting agenda for me to send an invite on Friday and you will already have it organized, and then you can also send me messages of who you need.

Jaqueline is saying here, using CFLP, giving a return, Bruno. Each item in the note should refer to the original item.

in the CFOP and CCLS TRIB, no interest and fine per item, right? Yes, I think he had also put it, what I was in doubt is if that validation rule, if I don't indicate the CFOP, the ICMS TAG, it will approve.

Because one thing, ok, CFOP in the operation transfer I take, but when filling the CFOP and in the transfer of operation, the ICMS tags, I will open it? Don't open it, Bruno. Don't open it. I can issue the note,

will be sent by the nature of the operation will be sent by the CFP but I will not send the tag of SMS perfect is because here I received and there is SMS zero but there is but by the way the note is with the wrong type too right no it's with a fine and fine fine and fine everything is fine

I don't know why she approved, let her approve, she should reject, right? Or maybe because the validation rules were all open, right? We generated these now after July 1st. Perfect.

Andressa is asking me about the split, we don't have anything yet, I'm seeing some movements from some solution companies, discussing with banks, but what we have for FEBRABAN, nothing yet, because it's no use just making a agreement through the bank, we need to have

the orcay of this process and we see some publications there, but nothing is still very factual. Do you want to talk, Keila? Sorry, I'll talk later. No, no, no problem. So that's it, Andressa.

Denise, I don't know if she wasn't listening to you at the moment, Bruno, but she also did tests with items. Look, Denise, I'm putting you on fire there. But I asked her to do some tests with several items to try to see if it was validating and she was able to validate the fee and fine.

No, the one from the previous one, the one from the previous one that was with a problem, wasn't it? I haven't done it yet. Oh no, it was the one from the previous one. It was the previous one. Sorry, I did a mistake. It was Bruno who put it in the group.

I don't think it was the other one. No, no, ours was the bail jury. It was the bail jury that we had received. I think it was the lawyer, ADV, something, I don't remember. He said he was having difficulty doing it, but I managed to do it. I had even called the CFAS there, in Rio Grande do Sul, in the DFE, and they answered me, but

I made the call before the test, then I did the test and it was normal, I even shared it with you, right? I think he's informing some tag there that shouldn't inform, some little problem there in the system that needs to be adjusted. It's even risky, right? What Aquila was commenting now, if on the third day we start generating these grades with this information and

I even wanted to take the opportunity, so Giza, you said you could ask a question, I wanted to ask about the fiscal fee of the sale for future delivery / advance payment. How are you doing with the value? If I'm doing, for example, when we make an advance payment and this advance payment, for example, will anticipate the total value of the request there.

and for example you have ICPS, PIS, COFINS and the calculation base has to be withdrawn but the fiscal note is the rule, it is for future implementation, right? And then when we talk about it technically, as there will be no tax, I would have to put the advance payment of the value because it brings there in the legislation that the calculation base will correspond to the value of each parcel

pays. So I understand, if it fell in the bank and the parcel pays, I understand that he wants to be BS and BS on top of that value. Exactly, that's it, that's the understanding. Very different from Article 12, which says that it does not include taxes, ICMS, IPs, COFINS. Exactly, it doesn't do that for ICMS, IPs, COFINS, but it will do it for IBS.

So that's why when he talks about the anticipation note, I thought you were going to ask me, "Lei, if on the third day there's nothing, am I going to make that note or not?" No, no, it's not, for example, let's say that Alice's world is perfect, right? And then, we here in the world of wonders, we will issue tax credits

and then I will receive a prepaid payment and I will make this prepaid payment note my value of my merchandise was 500 thousand only I have inside it ICMS, PIS and COFINS and then the value of my fee I will receive 500 thousand because he is paying for me

and effectively the calculation base of my CVS vs is 399,300 because when I withdraw PIS, COFINS and ICMS, right when I calculate that it will not be in this note

and it's not in that note because because these taxes will not stand out in the future delivery sales note I don't have stock so I don't have physical fins I don't have ICMS because this is my only in the receipt but I received 500 thousand then I'll get 500 thousand the total value I received and the sale for the future delivery

you will build another base I understand I will build a different base from the value I received to be able to calculate CBS and BS I would do that because you for me it's not part of the base when you made the proposal proposal had to be but the validation rule there from the 1610 UB that is for future implementation is not what he says he says he has to do what

that I have that he will validate this, right? The basis of the CBS calculation, right? He says he will say different from that sum. And then, like, my God, we

That's why I say that we may go back to a path that I was commenting on with you here. Maybe we have a way of having two tax documents so we don't run the risk of having an incidence in these operations that have ICBS and don't have an incidence of ICMS.

But then I'm just making a document to attend the ICMS. Yes, but then you don't have a clarity of whether it's really 500 reais or if you're going to make the 500 reais deducted for ICMS. But then, when you bring it to the 49th, theoretically the debit note that you are issuing as a pre-paid payment,

it will be replaced by the sale/delivery/future/simple/invoicing/59/22. And that's exactly what you're bringing. That is, today, theoretically, as it works, I emit a global rate. And what he's saying is, if I received a peak, as many times as I will have to have this little note to proportion the value of the financial portion received.

And then I do several grades of 59/22. And so, until then, doing several grades, I still swallow, Bruno. I keep thinking like this, but let's say he has a grade there, the value of the contract is 500, but he has 200 that is of ICMS, PIS and COFINS.

.

liquid of the operation, which is the base of IBSCBS. She's asking, do I do 500 or do I do, I don't know, it's going to be 380 thousand, in the end of the year. Because on this note there is no ICMS, so it's not embedded, but I'll have to adjust it, but I'll have to adjust it in the supply. Because when you set the price,

In this proposal that she made, for example, now on the first day of August, she considered ICMS, because when she wrote the proposal she considered it. Yes, because I'm selling and actually I'm already counting that I will have the supply. And then the supply has IBS, CBS, PIS, COFINS, ICMS, depending, IPI.

That's right. That's right. What is the value of my Calc base? I don't know how to answer. I didn't get there. I was discussing how to issue this blessed note that we were still selling. The same thing for the jury and the fine, right? Yes, the jury and the fine we discussed in the last meeting, how it will reach this price

in quotes, right, from this note, the value of this note of interest and fine, because the tax incites, then it is at the level of item, there are several items, each item, whether it is taxed or not, you have to be proportional and still embed the taxes in this price that I will pay, in this value that I will add to pass to my client to pay me, only he already paid me.

and then the chicken egg, right? Yes, Denis. Let me comment. Look, how are we doing here, right? We use SAP and we get a birth certificate. SAP, as far as I know, didn't release a debit note without being a writer, right?

So we developed a sales order here, which will be coupled with the supply order. So it's a debit note order. In this debit note, for example, we will charge him R$ 1,000,

And in these thousand reais, the CMS is already in the TITO, FISCOFINS, everything, it is the price, let's say, the final price of the merchandise, it was anticipating the thousand reais. This is for the payment advance note. This, and the supply note will be the thousand reais too.

So, in this debit note, how do I do it? Its total value will be R$ 1,000, but my pricing is already reducing taxes, so it already puts the base of the IBSCBS already liquid.

and understand already there that it says I can't this year for the test, right? Because from the next year we are the problem is precisely that we are already thinking about it already in the future, right?

the implementation future right the validation rule the value of the tax is not inside even testing right we're here thinking that next year it's there right it's already there next year I have to pass the rules I have to pass the rules for people to start development I'll wait until December to pass this rule they will kill us

and I'm going to be asking for a job I'm going to lose my job people that's it there's no other way out say no for God's sake everyone will lose the delivery

I think the others are anesthetized with so much, right? But people, it's a lot, a lot. Guys, I don't know, does anyone have any more questions? Someone who is there, let's open your heart, as we have done here, right? Of agony, right, Bruno? But without much answer. I think the question has to be, does anyone have any doubts?

but if not, we'll continue there in the group, okay? I want to thank you again for your presence, thank you very much again and let me give a little message before we close. I'll ask a question too later, you can do it. Let me just give a message before I forget. On August 26th we are going to do an event called the Japh Experience, it's an event

that we call new companies to participate. It's a mini-JFES that we do.

with the clients, but it's not just bringing the news, it's not like the GFES, we bring a little update there for people too, but it's a face-to-face event that we're going to do there at Live University, you are invited by GFES to participate, whoever wants to participate in person, just fill in the

the little card there to sign up for us to book a coffee, right? So for you, but just for you to know, it's a commercial event for new customers to enter here at GF.

but if you also have someone to indicate, you can also pass the link, okay? Just to remind you, before I forget, there will be our August meeting, but at the end of August there will be this face-to-face meeting, okay? You can talk about it. I even put a question in the group yesterday, which I saw in the other Reform group that I participate in,

I put it like this, it's not our case, I saw this topic there, which is the incorporation of companies,

I don't know if you got to see it. I was worried because, for example, the company is incorporating the case there, it will issue a note until July 31 and will be incorporated by another, so this NPJ will give up because it will be incorporated. Then the person in question questions the following: "I paid until July 31,

And if my client doesn't receive the merchandise, refuses the act, or if something is not found, how am I going to issue this note?

partial refusal, according to the CNF adjustment. And she tried. The test was rejected. I don't know if they predicted this at some point, if they thought, our legislator friends. They didn't think anything of it. I was thinking, because it happens. I have some clients who are incorporated or merge.

In the reception of his note, how would it be? How would I record it? So I started thinking about a lot of things, with the fabular. I think this theme is important to take to them, to the draft, to the committee, to the reception, to see what exists.

Wow, that's what Bruno is saying, we seem to be at the beginning of the project, right? We are at the beginning of the end. These doubts should be being discussed at the beginning of 2024. Yes, back in 1900, right?

I saw your answer, but I didn't even interact because I didn't have their answer. The idea is to take it to see if you can interact with them when you participate in the events. We try. It will be a theme for them, because I believe that there are many people who will fall into this issue. If they don't agree.

ok guys, thank you very much again for a meeting, we will exchange figurines there in the group and thank you again, have a good week, bye, thank you, thank you