Harrisburg City Council Work Session 4-7-2026

Be mindful of your time. The time is

5:30 p.m. I would like to call our work

session to order.

Mr. Truesdale, could you please call

call the roll? Sorry.

Ms. Davis. Present. Ms. Green. Present.

Mr. Jones. Here.

Mr. Lawson. Here. Ms. Rolls. Present.

Mr. Rodriguez.

>> Present. Ms. Hill. Present. Thank you.

Uh we will begin with the work of the

Administration Committee.

Uh this evening the Administration

Committee has one bill and one

resolution. We will begin with bill five

of 2026.

Mr. Truesdale, could you please read it

into the record?

Bill five 2026, an ordinance forgiving

and discharging 2024 and 2025 city real

estate taxes including interest,

penalties, and costs and striking off

tax liens for certain historically tax

exempt properties.

Thank you. Solicitor Grover.

President, good evening. Um this is uh I

think the fourth one of these that have

come along with the exemption.

Immediately after we just did the other

one, we received another notice from the

county.

Um this is for what is now we understand

the Church of the Pentecost. It was for

years um

uh the Redeemer Church up on Cameron

Street. Uh the Redeemer Community Church

uh

that is our understanding till 2017.

Um they had put in their application for

exemption but had not reached out to us

until we got the notice from the uh

the uh tax assessment officer from the

county. So this is the same thing. They

were having not timely responded to the

original exemption mailing. They got

assessed taxes for '24 and '25. The

property had been exempt for years as a

church and it continued to operate as a

religious uh

operation.

Um so it is the same as we have have

done before to exempt the taxes for

years uh '24 and '25. Um and I believe I

mentioned the last time,

these will now trigger if it's a

three-year delinquency, a tax sale. So

if there's any other stragglers that

haven't responded, the notice on their

property will probably trigger

uh them going to the county to get done

their paperwork and then end up at all

the taxing authorities.

Okay, is there any further discussion on

your end?

Okay.

I will open the floor to my colleagues.

I don't have any questions. I think

we've gotten used to these but um they

may have some additional questions. I'd

like to begin with Councilwoman Davis.

Do you have any questions? Thank you,

President Hill. No questions for me.

Thank you. Councilman Rodriguez, any

questions?

>> Thank you, Madam President. Uh thank you

for that breakdown. No questions for me.

Thank you. Councilwoman Rolls, any

questions?

Uh thank you. Good evening. I I just

have one. I think I'm just a little

maybe I do understand the exemptions um

but I'm just a little ignorant in this

department sometimes. Um

even for maybe the people online like

what uh facilities always like maybe

probably get exempt from taxes? Cuz I

know that's raised a couple questions or

so many properties that get exempt and

um prop from property taxes that could

go to the city and the schools. So So

there are a series of constitutionally

authorized exemptions from real estate

tax.

Uh government owned property that's put

to a public use is all exempt. And

sometimes you get to the

nitty-gritty, is it all being used for

government or not? There's been some

arguments about that. Um

hospitals for the most part are exempt

but because they're so complex, they'll

have other corporations within them that

are renting from them that may in fact

for part of the square space, the

equivalent of a condominium, they might

pay real estate tax on that piece.

Churches and religious owned facilities

that are put to a religious use are

exempt. But very often what you'll see

the exception is the part the

the pastor's house. If they live in it,

if they provide them a house, that's for

personal use of the pastor. So that is

not exempt, that portion of the land. Um

those are the general categories. Things

like senior centers that are publicly

funded, those are exempt and other

similar things.

Thank you for that. I appreciate it.

Taught me something a little bit more

and I'm sure some other people. So thank

you.

Thank you. Vice President Jones, any

questions? No questions. Okay, thank

you. Councilwoman Green, any questions?

Thank you very much. I don't have any

questions. Thank you. Councilman Lawson,

any questions? Thank you, President

Hill. Um no questions. Okay, thank you.

If there's no further discussion, I move

to add bill five of 2025 to our next

legislative session agenda for a formal

vote.

Next we have resolution 22 of 2026.

Mr. Truesdale, could you please read it

into the record?

Resolution 22 2026, a resolution

authorizing the City of Harrisburg to

negotiate and enter into a professional

services agreement with McCormick Law

Firm to serve as special counsel for the

purpose of reviewing and revising the

city's business privilege and mercantile

tax ordinance and regulated and related

regulations.

Thank you.

Uh who from the administration is

present to discuss resolution 22?

>> Mr. Hughes, our tax administrator, and

the attorney is here from the outside

firm. Excellent.

Uh good evening, City Council. Mike

Hughes, tax administrator. Thank you.

Madam [clears throat] President, members

of Council, Nick Grimes from McCormick

Law Firm.

Great, thank you. If you wouldn't mind

taking a few minutes to just provide an

overview of resolution 22 of 2026.

Let me go ahead and Sure.

Um so I'm excited to talk about no one's

favorite topic except for mine, business

privilege taxes. Um Mr. Hughes had uh

reached out to me and we've known each

other for a while through professional

organizations in the state and it sounds

like it's time for Harrisburg to review

the rules and regulations specifically

around the business privilege tax. I

believe the last time your rules and

regs were updated was 2001 and the rules

and regs do a great job at providing

guidance to taxpayers to make sure that

they understand the tax that they're

paying, to make sure the tax is enforced

uniformly, and there's changes in the

legislature, there's changes in the case

law that require some updates to those

rules and regulations to be sure that

the taxpayers

um can understand and can comply with

the tax. So um what I've submitted is a

proposal for our firm to go through the

uh tax ordinance in the City of

Harrisburg, go through the rules and

regulations,

and then provide suggestions for updates

on those. We will draft the whole new

rules and regulations but obviously

that's something that would come back to

this body to review, to ask questions

about, um and if there's any changes

then to adopt those changes.

Thank you.

Uh what is the timeline for your

services?

It it depends on how much needs to be

done and if there's any hiccups for lack

of a better term but it sounds like in

talking um with Solicitor Grover and the

tax department that they would like to

have new rules and regs adopted by

January 1 of next year to be effective

for next tax year.

A- and that is doable um if if we don't

run into any issues.

Okay.

Mr. Hughes, did you want to add anything

before I open up the floor for

questions?

>> Yeah, I think that's fine for right now.

Yep. Okay, thank you. Um at this time

I'll open the floor to my colleagues who

may have some additional questions for

you. I'd like to begin with Vice

President Jones.

Thank you.

How you doing today, sir? I'm doing

well, thank you.

>> Uh

yeah, one of the things I'm glad that

we're here at this moment uh for this.

You know, um um I have spoken to Mr.

Hughes

uh a few times in regards to seeing how

we can actually uh

reduce some of the red tape um for some

of our businesses that are coming in and

doing business with the city. Uh as you

noted and I think we would agree some of

those

um

laws, so to speak, are are archaic um

for today's time and and what we're

looking to do with our city. So I'm

really hoping that we can really

dig into those areas where there's a lot

of businesses, small businesses here in

the city that has a a lot of issues with

a lot of things that they're doing in in

taxation. Everybody hates taxation,

right? But it's needed, it's necessary.

I get it but I think um if we can um

if I'm able to actually sit with you

guys and and and talk about some of

these things, bringing those exact

issues or where we're looking at. And

you said give you about a year or at

least

the rest of this year to go through some

of these. Is that the timeline you

If there would be changes to your actual

tax ordinance, I assume that takes three

readings.

Three readings, so those changes would

need to be before you at least three

readings before the end of the year if

it they were to be effective in next tax

year.

In practical terms, it has to be done

before the budget is prepared and

finalized because projections on the tax

ordinance, if it makes changes, would

have to be considered there for a

January effective date. We're not saying

the tax rate will change, but we're

having a review done.

Okay, that's fine. Yeah, um again, for

me, that that's one of the biggest

things that, you know, I'm interested in

for our residents and and some of the

businesses here. Um I'm sure Mr. Hughes

gets a lot of complaints around this

issue as well, but I think it's

necessary today, especially again, um as

we're looking to

um move the city of of Harrisburg

forward and uh revitalize the area

itself, not just the downtown area, you

know, but we definitely want to make it

attractive for businesses and people to

do business inside of the city without

so much tax taxation. And again, I hope

that we can just look at Is there any

specific areas that you're looking at

now, Mr. Hughes, that

uh

you know, that that are pertinent?

I'm sorry, what was the last part? That

are pertinent to today's uh yeah. So, as

far as updating the rules and

regulations, like

like Nick had stated, I mean, it was

2001 was the last time they're done, so

a lot of the examples are based on old

business models. They're talking about

steel and different types of

manufacturing. So, we'd like to bring it

into the 20th century with our examples

to better help guide taxpayers, you

know, with the new business models on

how they should pay their tax and

what applies to them, different

categories, and so forth. Um

So, pretty much just bringing the whole

document current um and adding any

updates that are required by the state

legislature that we have to put in there

also. So. Now, when you say that's

that's um

required, of course, I know what that

means. However, um

I think that's the reason why we're

doing this now because

some of that's outdated and we just want

to make sure that we're in today's

modern time

uh with with with those um

uh laws and taxations, I mean, taxes.

So, again, for me, that's one of my

biggest things that I will want to be

willing to sit down with Mr. Hughes and

even yourself, if if need be, um to look

at certain areas and I have been

um

talking to, you know, certain businesses

around here and probably have an outline

of questions that I can send over first

and foremost for you to take a look at

and then we can just move on from there.

Sounds sounds good. All right. Um no

further questions.

Thank you, Councilwoman Green. Any

questions?

Thank you, President Hill, and thank you

both for being here tonight. Uh one

question I have, um I saw the fee

proposal was $250 an hour for uh lawyers

and $150 an hour for paralegals,

correct? Is there an expected number of

hours? Is there a cap on the cost?

We did put an estimate in the proposal

that

>> It was pretty wide range.

>> It is a very wide range and it's very

hard to tell until we really dig into

your regulations and dig into your

ordinance and then hear on how many

changes you guys need. The initial

review that we do is simply for the

legality, the changes in the law and the

guidance that the taxpayers need. That's

things like what establishes nexus, um a

very important case out of Harrisburg,

Rendina, changed some of the laws on

what creates nexus um for businesses for

business privilege tax. There's been

updates in things like um what qualifies

as a as a purely public charity, which

is the test in Pennsylvania for tax

exemption from local taxes for

nonprofits. Um so, offering guidance to

taxpayers on those things in a modern

world, there's a lot more global and um

nationwide businesses, so offering

guidance to be sure that it's clear in

the rules and regs on what happens when

you have interstate commerce sales and

how that's treated. Um

if none of those things are in the

current rules and regs, we're looking at

a completely new document. If most of

them are addressed and just need

updated, it takes a little less work.

And then the ordinance takes a little

more time because you have to be very

careful when you change an ordinance. Um

it's the Tax Reform Act of 1988, I

believe it is, which says if you have a

gross receipts tax in Pennsylvania, you

can keep your gross receipts tax,

but you can't adopt a new tax and you

can't expand the tax in rate or in

subjects of the tax. So, um you have to

be very careful that you don't change

your ordinance in a way that violates

that law because then there's a chance

that your um tax can be thrown out

altogether then, which obviously is an

important piece of revenue. So,

there's times when we can go through

this and be at $10,000 or a little less.

There's times where there's a lot of

question, a lot of need for me to

address council, a lot of need to have

executive sessions on certain issues or

problems that you have that cost it to

be closer to $20,000. So, it's hard to

get a give a a concrete answer to that

question until we really get into it.

Okay.

Um a timeline for review. About how long

do you expect it to take to review over

um just to start with before we get even

get into revision.

The review itself is relatively quick.

Um I mean, your ordinances aren't that

long and the rules and regs aren't that

long. It's really after we do that

initial review, which would probably be

done within the next few weeks, that

then we'd have to sit down with the

administration and Mr. Hughes and decide

how we want to address all of these

concerns. Make sure that we know that if

you're treating your interstate commerce

as the three-factor apportionment that

the state changed their rules for it and

be sure that you want to keep the

three-factor apportionment for

apportioning interstate commerce. Those

those kind of concerns. Some of the

other things are are easy because

um the rules and regs regarding purely

public charities are pretty standard

among every jurisdiction since that's

um

done by state law, but we can have an

initial review done within a month, but

then the work starts on deciding how we

want to handle that and how we want to

adopt that into a new set of rules and

regulations. Mhm. Thank you. And then

last question for Mr. Hughes, how do we

go about choosing this firm?

I had uh submitted a couple different uh

I think it was three different firms to

to Neil for for review and uh

ultimately it was, you know, Neil's

choice, so.

Okay.

All right. Well, I don't have any other

questions for you at the moment. Thank

you for being here tonight. I think this

is something we need to definitely get

it into um and get our our regulations

up to date, so thank you very much.

>> Thank you.

Thank you, Councilman Lawson. Any

questions? Yes, thank you, President

Hill. Um thank you, gentlemen, for

coming out and and uh

bringing this up. It is important as uh

Vice President Jones had um

mentioned, when uh talking to business

owners, one of the

main topics they bring that they they

would love to invest, but they just

don't know all the the ins and outs.

They don't know the rules and and it it

becomes a little bit confusing for them.

Um

and and maybe this is a question for Mr.

Hughes, I'm not certain, but as we're

looking at this, would this be also a

great opportunity to look at how we

could streamline the process with our

mercantile tax and also our our zoning

permitting and and just kind of make

like a one-stop shop so that it's easy

for businesses to come and just

set up their their tent.

Uh it's a good question, of course. Um

and we've been

all the years I've been here, we've

constantly been tweaking, arranging,

trying to come up with a better

product, a better

option for taxpayers. Years ago, we did

switch to a one-stop shop, which is

they come to our office uh with all the

applications. So, we have one point of

contact and we're not sending them

around individually to well, then go to

zoning, then go to codes, then go to

fire, then go to health. So, they just

have to come to our office, submit the

application packet. Um so, we have two

processes, one for city-based

businesses, one for out-of-city based

businesses.

So, if it's a city-based business, you

know, that we then we intake that

application, we scan it,

and we have an internal laser fiche

system, uh so then that document is sent

first to zoning electronically,

um and it also not notifies the

applicant

of the different stages of the

application. So, when it first gets sent

to zoning, then the applicant is

notified, your application is with

zoning for review, and then Mr. Knight,

you know, reviews that application.

Um

when he finishes his review, then he

sends it on

uh to the next step, the codes

department. And then at that point, the

applicant's notified again via email,

hey, you're now with the codes,

and so forth. And then it either goes to

fire or the fire chief, depending on

what type of business.

And if there's food involved, it will go

to the health officer.

Once all of them review, sign off all

electronically on the document, it comes

back to our office

electronically, I do a final review,

and hit it in the system and then it

proves it, person's notified,

and we issue the license, you know,

within 2 days of it processing in

treasury. All right.

>> So, it it definitely has been

streamlined over the last couple years.

Are there still delays

that I would like not to be there? Yes.

Unfortunately, a lot of it just has to

do with people's schedules, you know,

depending on how long it takes to get

the zoning review. I mean, the health

officer, we have one health officer, a

lot of establishments, so sometimes it

takes a while to get that scheduled.

Um you know, a lot of the other steps we

move quickly. I mean, we move it right

away that same day.

I move it within the day when it comes

to my in-bin, but you have to realize

along the way other people's schedules

kind of they can't move it so quickly.

Um

I don't know what the answer is there,

but like I said, we're always exploring,

always trying to improve and tweak the

project process, and we are open for

suggestions if you have any, so.

All right. Um well, if if I could

tag along to Vice President Jones'

meeting when you have that, I'll I'll

survey and and maybe we'll have some

some other questions, uh you know, at

that point. Um and and then, you know,

the other question I have is just you

you mentioned that it was

2001?

It was written in 2001, but I think the

actual passage, um

and just for reference, this document is

available on the city website where

everyone can review what the current

document is.

Uh if you go to the tax enforcement

website, other documents, you can find

the rules and regulations out there and

and take a look at them now, so.

Um but it was actually right, effective

January 1 of 2002. So, the work was put

in same during the year of 2001, it was

effective January 1 of 2002, so. And

then, my question would be if if we, you

know, put together this this uh this

update, could we write in like an

automatic

review, automatic update, so that we

don't go to a period where we're waiting

25 years?

We we we would probably advise against

that. Okay.

>> Because just in a transition, if it gets

dropped, there'd be a question of what

whether the taxes are now legally in

place.

If it if you went if you mandate by

ordinance a review period, and just, you

know, administration has changed, so

someone leaves who's in charge, and they

don't know that provision 7 years from

now,

and then no one reviewed it, the

question is does the entire tax get

challenged by a taxpayer 2 years later?

So, those kind of things are, you know,

it's easy to put in the regulations

that's the power of, let's say, the tax

enforcement administrator to cause a

review, as opposed to it will be on this

time time frame, if that makes sense. It

does. Yes.

All right. Thank you. That's everything

that I had.

Thank you.

One moment, second.

Uh

Councilwoman Ross, any questions?

Thank you, uh President Hill. Uh most of

my questions have been asked and

answered. I just had one follow-up

question to Councilwoman Green's. Um

Mr. Hugh uh Hugh

Excuse me. Hughes, I am

cannot speak right now. Um I know you

said you did not pick the law firm, and

um uh

Solicitor Grover did. Uh I was wondering

um why did you choose McCormick?

I'm tongue-tied today, so. So, it really

was just about who first, I will tell

you, an attorney in Pennsylvania has an

ethical obligation when there's a

specialty they're not in is to affiliate

with a firm or a lawyer who has that

specialty, and that was part of what

triggers this.

Um there was another firm we

interviewed, and it was purely a um

economic thing. We were discussing

uh

transportation costs. My firm our our

office generally doesn't pay you to

drive here from a far distance and drive

back. We look at it as not a good use of

taxpayers' money. Um when I arrived, we

used to pay lawyer Pittsburgh lawyers

from Pittsburgh to drive in to meet.

Yeah. And to drive back. So so, we were

paying like an extra 8 hours a day just

for driving. So, we had instituted that

provision 10 years ago or more. So, that

was a discussion we just never got past

with the prior person, and

you know, this firm was the next on the

list in terms of qualifications.

Okay. Thank you. Sure. That's it for me.

Thank you. Councilman Rodriguez, any

questions? Thank you, Madam President.

Thank you, gentlemen, for joining us

this evening. I just want to was is the

McCormick website mc-law.com? Correct.

Awesome. Awesome. And you guys were

recently recognized

2026 edition best law firms. Yes.

Awesome. Well, congratulations. Um what

would you say is your expertise when it

comes to uh city ordinance and

mercantile tax? Um for me specifically,

business privilege and mercantile tax

has been a specialty for me. Our firm as

a whole and within my practice area as

well is municipal law. Um the majority

of my clients and the work that I do is

with school districts, cities,

townships, boroughs, authorities. That's

where I do most of my work, so not only

do we understand how third-class cities

operate, but we understand how

ordinances and resolutions and

regulations work. And then, for me

specifically with that knowledge, um I

have a background in the business

privilege tax working in the shoes of

Mr. Hughes for the city of Williamsport,

Keystone Central School District, and a

few other entities that have collected

the tax um prior to going to law school

and becoming an attorney.

Awesome. Thank you for that. Over 240

years of experience in the form of firm,

52 municipalities served, and 164 years

in operation. Definitely seem qualified.

Um and my next question is for Solicitor

Grover. You briefly touched on it,

Solicitor, um but for the residents'

edification that's watching, um although

we do have our own solicitor, why was it

important that this was through way of

third party? Uh in not just local law,

but in in this country, tax law is

considered a specialty. You can get your

own separate legal degree just in tax.

Um and again, our obligation as

professional, if it's a specialty that

we are not uh

functioning in, it is it would be it

would be irresponsible, probably

unethical, to put out that we understand

it and can rewrite that provision

without affiliating with someone who

does it full-time.

Awesome. Thank you for that. No further

questions, Madam President. Thank you.

Councilwoman Davis, any questions? Thank

you, President Hill.

Uh good evening, Mr. Hughes and Mr.

Ross. Thank you for being here this

evening.

Um I actually have been in conversations

with the administration, so I'm very

pleased to see that

this area of taxation is going to be

reviewed. Um specifically, the business

and mercantile tax.

I think that the penalty currently is

extremely high for businesses.

Um but again, I'm not the professional,

so I just want to say kudos to the

administration. Thank you for being

willing to review this

the entire tax laws here for the city.

Our um businesses deserve that, and it's

well overdue, so.

Otherwise, my questions have been

answered by my other colleagues, so.

Thank you again. Thank you. Thank you.

Vice President Jones. Yes, uh I want to

revisit you guys again. How you doing?

Good.

>> [laughter]

>> Uh

one of the I have two questions. One one

is is around again

the taxation and and the collection of

it. Um in your experience, have you seen

in other municipalities where

um when it comes to businesses period

inside of the city or or doing business

inside of the city, have you ever seen

those those uh taxations tiered?

For business privilege and mercantile

tax, you can tier it based on service or

physical sales, and that's usually the

difference, and it's not always the

case, but usually the difference between

your mercantile tax ordinance, that's

when you sell a physical product, and

your business privilege tax ordinance is

generally for rental and services. You

can tier it based on those

classifications, but in Pennsylvania, we

have the uniformity clause in the

constitution, which

which requires I'm getting tongue-tied,

too. Requires [clears throat] you to be

uniform in your taxation unless they are

separate and distinct subjects. And

that's why we don't have like a tiered

earned income tax. That's why um for

real estate taxes, you can't charge a

business different than you would charge

a residential property in your tax rate.

So, you can tier in specific categories

that have been said that are allowed to

be tiered within certain caps, but you

can't arbitrarily treat different

businesses within those categories

differently. Right. And I hate to bring

up this word again, but it's just

something that, you know, again, I've

been dealing with with uh residents and

small business owners.

Um again, this was a topic for a minute,

uh our our amusement tax, and people

think it's rather high. Um you know, and

I get where we, the city,

uh is charging five, and then we're

collecting for the school district,

which makes it a a even 10, which I

still think is a

pretty decent number um when it comes to

that. So, in that area, you know, some

businesses may

um look to tier in that area. Have you

seen that when it comes to amusement?

Amusement tax, most of the

municipalities that we work with have

either a flat rate amusement tax. Um

I don't work with one myself who who

uses who does a percentage amusement

tax. I'm certainly familiar with that. I

don't recall any tiered rates within the

percentage. Um there's a range of

percentages with the cap. I believe the

local tax enabling act caps that at 5%.

Um and it is not unusual at all in the

amusement tax or other taxes for

municipalities to be at the cap

established by the local tax enabling

act. Okay. And the second thing was just

just to go back to what uh Councilman

Lawson was talking about. Um when um

there's one incident that I seen was

working with a resident trying to get

them when he's talking about

streamlining um the services. So, I I

would

I don't even know how to frame it, but I

would just say it that um some of the

businesses I what I witnessed one time

is where

it may go through zoning.

Then it go through codes and all of the

the process, right? And um zoning might

say, "Hey, this is great." Or the fire

department might come in and say, "Hey,

you're good." But then when it gets to

zoning, they be like, "Hey, you can't

none of this." So, I'm looking to see um

and I I discussed this before when that

when that uh issue arise.

Um

is there a way that I know that code

shouldn't be doing zoning's uh job, but

is there a way that, you know, everyone

can work together again to his point

where they're not just running into a a

brick wall or a roadblock because well,

zoning said it was fine, but now I get

here and you guys telling me I can you

you understand what I'm saying? Is there

a way that we can do that? That's just a

much bigger discussion. It really is. I

mean, there is a a web of laws that

people have to comply with to have

property in the city and open a

business. And it's usually the reverse.

It's usually that

codes doesn't see an issue necessarily,

but but zoning because the code is

mandatory and you have to prove you're

entitled to a to an exemption or a a

variance for for it. Um it's just either

the zoning code changes, which is a very

involved process. It's doable.

But or um

you know, because the planning these

what we adopt for the codes office is

generally statewide codes, right? That

we put in. But then we localize a zoning

code, which is one of the few true local

powers that all the courts recognize

that we we collectively know what's best

for our community, where things should

be and shouldn't be.

Um and so uh it's a process. The last

time we did a full zoning code change

was 2014.

As far as I can tell, there were

probably eight or 10 versions of that

that never got adopted over the years.

It just kept getting processed and then

it never went for a vote for whatever

reasons. I we weren't here that then at

the time. So, changing the zoning is a

big deal and it should be because

property owners' rights are a big deal.

Um but

the real place to start is is this

property zoned for what you propose?

Right? Right. And that's that's the that

you start from that question.

Uh you I I did ask that question on what

we can do on our end, um but sometimes

it's just that a new developer or new

business owner come in, they may not

just be aware. Is there a way that we

can I mean, far as educating those

individuals that are are seeking to do

uh create a business or put a business

in certain areas, at least informing

them, educating them with a one-pager or

something because again

um it was very frustrating for that

individual. They they they didn't know.

They weren't all together even though

we're all together. So so so we I think

we all know how things sometimes work

out there. What happens is some property

owner will move ahead, open a business,

not pull any licenses, renovate a

building, not pull any permits.

That's different. No no no, that happens

a lot. And then they come in and you as

the buyer

I'm buying a four-unit building. It's a

four-unit building. I'm buying a a local

store. It's a local store. You come in,

put your money down in good faith

and you know, and you come in and find

out to get your license that it's not

zoned or allowed.

>> And that was the instance. They thought

they they could have a daycare on the

fourth floor

and there was no way that you can have a

a daycare on a fourth floor, but they

were well, it was previously a daycare

and then so It it it occurs quite a bit.

And so, a lot of times in planning where

they're doing the corrective, you know,

the new owner's trying to comply with

the rules and then they're trying to get

their variance cuz it's that's what they

paid for when they bought the business

and the property. Um and so, it happens

more than I think people would think it

happens. Um and so, we chase a lot of

things in the city. Mike's office does.

Jeff's office does.

Uh

codes does. Just trying to bring people

into compliance, not trying to punish

them, just trying to bring it into

compliance so you're doing what everyone

else is doing who did pay to get their

permits and things.

All right. That's it. Thank you. Thank

you, President Hill. You're welcome. Are

there any other questions, comments,

Councilwoman Davis? Thank you, President

Hill. Yes, um

since we're talking about business

privilege and mercantile tax, have you

ever

uh

handled a case or work with a

municipality and the

penalty actually was reduced because of

the research that you've done?

According to the law, there's two

circumstances where you can waive you

don't have discretion to waive penalty

and interest.

If there was delay, undue delay by the

tax officer, then they're required by

law to waive penalty and interest for

that undue delay. I believe Busy Beaver

was the case. Um it was a a plumber who

uh had back years in taxes. They had a

jeopardy assessment done and I believe

I'm I'm trying to recall the

circumstances of this case. If I

misstate something, I apologize, but

that assessment sat on the tax officer's

desk for a year or two years. And then

they tried to get the penalty for that

year or two years from when it sat on

that person's desk and it just needed to

be mailed out. And the court said, "No,

you can't do that. You can't charge him

penalty and interest there."

And the other place is if there's

written advice from the tax officer to

treating your business a certain way.

For example, if you say, "I'm not sure

if I'm a purely public charity, should I

be exempt?" If you submit a request to

the tax officer, the tax officer

responds in writing and says, "Yes, you

are exempt." If a new tax officer comes

in and says, "No, you're not exempt. You

have to pay the tax."

You still have an obligation to pay the

tax if that's the correct legal

determination, but you can't be

penalized with penalty and interest in

the interim from relying on written

advice from the tax officer. Those are

the two circumstances that the law

allows it. Now, there is on occasion um

municipalities that will adopt, usually

by resolution, a threshold where a tax

officer can negotiate or settle a

certain amount of tax due. And that's

usually [snorts] at a cap um that that

the board would give them authority to

do to say, "If you're reducing the

assessment by less than a thousand

dollars,

um you have that discretion."

But as a settlement. Because the issue

you run into if you give a tax officer

pure discretion to waive penalty and

interest is the uniformity issue where

all taxpayers have to be taxed equally.

And if you are abating penalty and

interest to some taxpayers and not

others a judgment call, then you risk

violating that uniformity clause.

Okay.

Thank you for that clarification. You're

welcome.

Thank you. Councilman Lawson.

Thank you, President Hill. And just on

on that uh

last

question there.

Uh I I've noticed where I've known like

maybe the state has done something or

the federal government where they say

they're going to give like a a holiday

for the penalties in in an effort to try

to gather

that tax revenue. Is that something that

could be done? Like basically it's just

across the board or would it have to be

you have no discretion and and we leave

it there. My advice would be yes, it can

be done, but it needs to be done

uniformly. And that would be a

conversation we would have to have with

council and your solicitor to make sure

that any of those policies are uniform.

We saw a lot around the time of COVID.

And if you're going to treat every

single business the same, that's

allowed. Um

where you start to push that line is

sometimes when you say

if you're a business who who has never

paid the tax and you willingly come to

us and say, "Hey, I'm five years

delinquent. I'd like to get current."

There's some places that adopt a policy

that say, "If you come forward as

opposed to us having to go to you with

enforcement, we'll waive certain penalty

and interest." Again, the only way that

that's even could be discussed in my

mind and my advice to you would be is if

that's uniform for every single business

that comes to you that way. But where

there's still a risk that we would need

to have a conversation to look at where

that level of liability is is what if

another business who is currently in

compliance and then gets charged penalty

and interest for a late payment, if they

challenge and say, "Well, you're not

uniform because you waived this person

for five years of penalty and interest

for nonpayment, but you didn't waive

mine and I was only late for one year."

So, that's where that analysis would

have to come in. But but those are

usually the methods that um

municipalities and even the state uses

to um

within a uniform system abate certain

penalty and interest in certain

circumstances.

Okay. Thank you for that. And and then I

just had

what well, quasi question, quasi

statement because the the

the the process that Mr. Hughes

described was very seemed very easy. And

and and I know it's easy to say that

here as we're sitting here. And and when

you get into the process, it may not be

quite as easy.

Um but but I think right now there's a

perception that it's more difficult than

maybe it it really is.

Um and and I'm just wondering how we may

look at ways to change that perception.

Um

again, we we want people to invest in

the city. We want to make sure that they

believe it's going to be

a fair, seamless process um that they

can go through it and maybe

we we start them with, you know, your

office and say, "Okay, go in this

direction." and and try to prevent

people from going through that uh

the process of buying the the daycare

before they find out that it's out of

compliance with zoning. I know you can't

stop all of it, but I'm just wondering

if there's a way for us to kind of get

that message out there a a little better

so that the the business owners or

future business owners um know that

there is a process that should be fairly

streamlined.

Yeah, I mean, I guess we could work with

our communications department a little

more closely and see if we can,

you know, put some additional uh

information out there. I mean, we we do

have

information on our website. And in the

past, you know, I have attended

different um

uh business development uh meetings and

uh we've met in the community in

different locations. Uh you know, when

when there was different people in the

business development role, and I would

speak about this. So, we we were always

try to educate people.

You have to get them to attend the

meetings uh

read the information. I mean, we we're

open for suggestions, uh but I think as

you stated,

uh or it seems like we're always having

people that they just open up and then

we have to deal with it after the fact.

And it doesn't usually turn out happy

for that person. So, but we're always

trying to make, you know, adjustments

and improve processes. Um so, we'll

surely take that into consideration. So,

Thank you very much. That's everything.

Thank you. Are there any other

questions?

Okay, seeing and hearing none,

I move to add resolution 22-2026

to our next legislative session agenda

for a formal vote. Thank you very much

for your presence. Thank you.

This concludes

the business of the administration

committee. Next we have the business of

the community and economic development

committee. I will defer to our community

and economic development committee

chair, Councilman Lawson, to lead

discussion.

Thank you, President Hill. Um we have

one resolution um for consideration

today, um resolution 20-2026,

a resolution approving the preliminary

final land development plan for 1171

South Cameron Street, um presented by

Oh, oh.

My eyes. Chris

Cantinia?

Catonia? All right.

You know I didn't, but he's he's he's on

the Zoom, but he can hear me

mispronounce his name. Okay. That's

but of of Storage 5 Harrisburg LLC to

convert an existing office building into

a self-storage facility and construct

additional storage unit buildings on

site and associated site and access

improvements. And it looks like we have

Mr. Knight here on uh here for the

administration to discuss this. Yep,

thank you. Please. Uh yes, good

afternoon uh council members. Um so, as

Councilman Lawson uh noted, uh this is a

preliminary and final land development

plan for 1171 South Cameron Street.

Um the applicant is proposing to convert

the existing office building into a

self-storage facility and construct

additional storage units uh storage unit

buildings on site. Uh if uh council

members are familiar with the property,

uh it is the former, I think, O'Kane uh

corporation building, uh which is just

across Cameron Street from uh the county

mental health building uh down there at

the intersection of Cameron Street and

Sycamore Street. Um and uh the property

itself, uh based on our research, has

been vacant for about 6 years. Uh so,

sometime in 2020, uh the property

vacated, so the building's been sitting

there uh vacant since that time.

Um and uh the applicant's proposal, um

you know, represents a pretty sensible

um reconfiguration of that space into uh

both interior storage units within the

existing building, as well as new

storage units being constructed around

the base of the building on the east

side of the building, so on the back

side of the building, as well as some

new structures in the parking lot uh

that occupies the southern half of that

property. Um and uh

overall, um you know, the project is

going to result in a bit more of a um

a simplified

uh traffic circulation pattern for uh

the property itself. Um they're going to

be putting in a little bit of uh

bump-outs

uh to better control traffic. Right now,

it's just kind of a big asphalt uh lot

surrounding the building, so it's a

little bit uh confusing as to where you

can go. Um and this is going to create

um a much more simplified uh traffic

pattern around the buildings uh on site

and uh to and from the property as well.

Uh and uh overall, um again, it

represents a pretty sensible

reconstruction of that property. Uh so,

with that being said, the

planning commission uh is recommending

that city council approve the request uh

with the following conditions. Uh

because the property is located in the

AE 100-year flood plain, any proposed

development is subject to conformance

with the regulations in chapter 7-315 of

the zoning code, specifically with

respect to investment in the existing

structure and the construction of new

storage buildings on site. Uh and to

provide a little bit more information on

that, about the western, I'd say, third

or quarter of the property uh is located

in the

um 100-year flood plain. Uh so, the

building the investment in the building

itself will be subject to those

regulations, and from my initial review,

I don't think there's really anything to

be done there. Uh but the construction

of the new units on the southern half of

the property uh will need to be

developed in conformance with the uh

flood plain regulations, which primarily

require uh the structures themselves to

be elevated a foot and a half above the

base flood elevation at this location.

Um and then the second condition uh is

that the applicant should construct a

separate stairway on the north side of

the center driveway connecting to the

proposed curb bump-out in front of the

main entrance to provide dedicated

pedestrian access and ensure safer

circulation for all potential customers.

Um and again, that is uh if you go out

from the main entrance, uh which is

along the south side of the building, uh

out to Cameron Street, uh there is a uh

one of three uh drive driveway access

points at that location. Uh but there's

no real uh pedestrian access onto the

site. You just kind of have to walk

through uh the driveways. So, uh the

condition requires that steps be

provided there so that there's a

dedicated separate

um pedestrian access. Uh and that will

connect right to one of those curb

bump-outs that I was describing earlier.

Um so, it should definitely make uh

pedestrian access safer than the current

conditions allow.

Uh with um

the planning commission uh recommends

the

city council approve the request for the

following reasons. Uh the adaptive reuse

of a large commercial building as a

self-storage facility will ensure

rehabilitation and occupancy of a long

vacant structure. Uh proposed site

improvements such as access gates,

one-way traffic flow, lighting, and new

sidewalks and pedestrian infrastructure

will improve visibility and enhance the

safety of customer circulation to and

through the property. And finally, the

location of the proposed storage

facility on a major mixed-use corridor

near adjacent municipalities, Steelton

and Swatara Township, and the new

Interstate 83 access ramps and proximate

to a dense apartment complex to the east

establish conditions that should ensure

the viability of the proposed use.

Um with that, uh I'll uh hand uh hand it

over to the applicant.

Thank you, Mr. Jeffrey.

Good evening, uh council. My name is

Steven Taylor. I work for the

engineering firm representing um Storage

5, the developer here. Um

>> [snorts]

>> I didn't really have much to add uh to

Jeffrey's summary. It was uh quite

thorough. So,

I guess I will turn it back to to you

all for any questions.

Thank you. I I appreciate that. Um I I

did have

one question, and um

Mr. Knight, you may be able to help me

out because I don't remember the exact

designations for the flood zones. You

said AE is where the the main building

would be.

Um what what does that typically affect?

Uh so, the AE is the is FEMA's

designation for the 100-year flood

plain. Um

and uh for existing structures, it

limits investment in that structure to

uh less than 50% of the fair market

value of the structure. There's several

ways of calculating that, but um and off

the top of my head, I'm not exactly sure

what that is for this structure, but I

think it's somewhere in like the maybe 3

million, 4 million dollar range. So, the

amount of investment necessary in that

building is not going to trigger that

threshold, and they should be good

there. Uh and then for new construction,

they require it to be uh elevated um to

what's called freeboard, which is a foot

and a half above what the base flood

elevation is to give a little bit of uh

buffer area.

Um and uh that's again to prevent uh the

incursion of water into uh a structure

like these storage units or a home or

whatever uh in the event of a 100-year

flood. Right. The only only reason I had

the concern just because of the the

the property being a storage unit and

and people putting their stuff there and

and probably forgetting about it until

there's a a heavy rain event.

Um and

just wanted to make sure that, you know,

there and now I guess you're the

engineer. So, making sure that there are

steps taken to make sure that there are

their items are protected. So, that's

that's the only uh real thought that

came across as as I was looking at this.

Overall, I I I I like what you put

together in in the plan and and what

you're looking to do, but I did have

that concern about the the flooding. So,

that's that's all that I have for

questions myself. I will um

start to my immediate left here and ask

uh

Ms. Green if she has any questions for

you.

Thank you very much. I don't have any

questions regarding this.

Vice President Jones? Yes, thank you,

Councilman Lawson. How you doing today,

sir? Is someone on Zoom?

And his name is?

There's two people. My name is Chris

Catania. I'm the owner. And then John

Clark, he's the architect. All right. Uh

nice to meet you, Chris. So, my question

>> Nice to meet you. My

My question for probably would be in

regards to you.

Um

I see [clears throat] that this project

is um

generating at least uh well, going to be

about 6.7 million in construction

and about 10 million

uh

in total.

Um I see that you said that it will be

from 50 to 100 construction jobs and

about two permanent jobs.

But then when it gets to uh with the

respect to MBE WBE DBE,

um you said there will be no

participation there.

Uh for me,

I am very big on making sure that local

businesses are included in the economic

growth of the city of Harrisburg.

Uh so, my ask would be with those in

between those 50 to 100 jobs

construction jobs,

um how much of that are you looking to

spend locally? I mean, in the city of

Harrisburg is cuz we do have

uh very talented plumbers, electricians,

uh drywall hangers, all of those

different things. So,

uh my question to you is why no MBE WBE

DBE and how much of that spend of those

50 to 100 construction jobs are you

looking to do locally? One of the things

we see here, um there's a lot of

economic uh development. One of the

things I'm very interested in is

economic empowerment. And um any project

that comes to our city, uh I I I believe

that some of the people here should have

an opportunity, a fair opportunity to uh

at least um

apply for some of these positions to to

have a chance to to to grow

economically. So, that's my question for

you.

Yeah, and Steve, if you could if you

could um

clarify the question could uh in the

response that we gave,

what

the the acronym I'm I'm not familiar.

Tell me what we said we were not going

to.

Uh the MBE

>> is minority business uh enterprise.

Yeah. WBE the women's and the DBE. So,

these are all like I want to say like

minorities.

Yes, I'm I'm familiar. Sorry. I

I don't know why and and Steve from CEC

would have to answer this.

Did Was there a question that asked if

we would if we would do this and we said

no cuz we we solicit for local

subcontractors

in all of our projects and

we essentially only hire local cuz it

makes the most sense for the project. It

It gives jobs to the community. The

money stays in the locally.

Um

there's cost advantages uh for local

contractors. So,

I the answer is actually yes, we will

look for contractors in those

categories.

Yeah, well, I'm reading here. Maybe I'm

reading this wrong. I'm going to read it

back to you.

Whereas in regard to economic

development, the applicant has stated

that the construction value of the

project is six

million 700,000 dollars.

The total value of the project is 10

million dollars. The number of

construction jobs is 50 to 100 and the

number of new permanent jobs is two.

With the respect of MBE WBE DBE

participation, the applicant has stated

no.

So, that may have been an a

misunderstanding on uh our part. Um

assuming that those were like

engineering um Excuse me. Can you please

speak into the microphone? Thank you.

>> Yeah, so that may have been a

misunderstanding of asking whether these

type of companies would be involved with

the design um architecture or

engineering design of it. Um

We weren't thinking about the actual

construction, which he um as Chris

stated, yeah, he he likes to use the all

local resources. So, That's That's good

to know. To be honest, I wasn't aware of

WBE or MBE construction companies. I'm

really only familiar with the

engineering world. I've I've seen that

in the engineering world. Um

you know, a lot of municipal pool and

city projects require a certain

participation

from those from those companies. So, I

thought that was the engineering {slash}

architecture {slash} design um

aspect of the project. So, the second

part of that question.

So, now we got that part cleared up.

Of out of the 50 to 100 construction

jobs, how much of that 6.7

spend do you spend plan to I mean, if

you can give me an a rough estimate, it

doesn't have to be an exact number. Are

you looking to spend here locally within

the city limits of Harrisburg?

Um Chris, I think that might be a better

question for you.

>> Yeah, so

um

it's going to be

I'm I'm estimating. I don't have our

general contractor on on the call, but

um

it's over 50%.

The the largest item where

where we would we would send money kind

of outside the community would be on the

storage storage units themselves cuz

they're proprietary to a company that's

a that's a national company.

Um but they do they do bring in

uh local labor. So, they would have to

be broken out, you know, material versus

labor.

But then everything else, HVAC,

um

plumbing, electrical, um all the big

trades, those will be local to the

community. Um now, is it going to be

Harrisburg versus a surrounding

neighbor, you know,

adjacent city or or township? It It's up

to the general contractor in the bid

process and who comes back with the most

qualified and cost cost,

you know, effective bid.

All right. Yeah, um

I I I understand that. And again, so

when when I say local and I get it, I'm

not saying to spend all of your money

here. I got I get it. You have to

There's competitive prices and you know,

different uh experiences uh that these

companies have. I I I'm definitely full

aware of that. But again, hopefully you

guys um this is just something that that

that I'm huge on again is making sure

uh some locals and again, when I say

local, I'm using not York, Lancaster,

I'm saying in the city limits of

Harrisburg. Uh we do have plenty of

qualified individuals here. And there is

a list that may be um the city can

actually share with you with some of

those uh construction companies. Um

but again, it's up to you uh to utilize

them. It's just something that I'm

asking. And uh

I have no other questions.

>> [snorts]

>> Thank you for your question. Thank you,

Vice President Jones. And And there

there is a list of uh qualified local

contractors that has been that's being

compiled with our uh diversity officer

here within the the city of Harrisburg.

So, if you talk to your general

contractor, you may want to have them

just make a call into the city just to

to get some names and maybe there's an

opportunity for a spend with someone

here locally.

And President

>> do that.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry about that. Please

Please

I didn't mean to cut you off.

All right.

President Neal.

Thank you.

I just had a few, I guess, follow-up

questions

um related to the planning commission

report just to learn a little bit more

about um your business.

So, it was asked during the planning

commission meeting whether uh the

developer had other storage facilities

operating in the region. I just wanted

to clarify um it notes that the

applicant stated they did not, to his

knowledge, but that they were evaluating

several other locations for such

facilities in the area. Um can you

confirm that you are Texas-based and are

you evaluating other locations in the

greater Harrisburg area or other

locations

um along the East Coast?

Yeah, so we are Texas-based. Uh we

operate um

uh through a a an ownership management

structure. So, this particular site,

just to give you a little background, I

will be the owner under under a a

company called Storage 5. This one

Storage 5 Harrisburg. Um and then Extra

Space Storage, which is a publicly

traded

um national company, will be the manage

manager of it. So, the the the people

who actually run the store, the district

manage managers, they're all from that

local area and they have other stores

already in Harrisburg.

So, us as an ownership group or me as an

owner,

um we have a existing property in King

of Prussia um

near PA if you're familiar.

Um

we just purchased and closed on the

building at 1000 Nationwide Drive. We

will be doing the same thing there,

converting that to a self storage

facility. We actually got a a zoning

variance for that.

Um we have one under construction, a

ground-up project in Secane, PA. And I'm

actually on the road right now calling

you from a hotel room cuz I'm visiting

uh a project that we're finishing in

Milltown, New Jersey. So um

we have

properties in Rhode Island, New Jersey,

Pennsylvania.

Um

kind of expanding as as quickly as we

can.

To answer your question. Yes, thank you.

Um and there will be two employees on

site.

Yeah, the self-storage stores typically

operate with two full-time employees on

site. Um

you know, for coverage hours.

Okay.

Um I don't think I had Oh,

in reference to the uh planning bureau's

conditions for approval, the two that

were outlined and previously discussed,

are you agreeable to those conditions?

I believe it was the stairs and Steve,

we talked about that. Yes, and you have

to remind me what the other one is.

Hold on, I'm going back to it. I went

back to the

It was the flood plain issue, but 1

second.

Okay, the first one

uh relates to the flood plain. I think

we talked about it, but I just wanted to

confirm that you are agreeable to the

>> Yes, yes, the flood plain it will it

will be in compliance. And I just want

to also mention that the existing

building is built outside the flood

plain. And um that we have an elevation

certificate that shows base flood

elevation and finished floors already 1

and 1/2 foot difference.

Okay, thank you. And then the second one

was correct, the separate stairway.

So you said you're agreeable. Okay.

I don't think I have any other questions

at this time. Thank you.

Thank you, President Hill.

Um Councilwoman Ross.

Thank you, Councilman Lawson, and and

good evening to you both and to Mr.

Katana. Is it Katanya. Katanya, thank

you.

>> No one says it right, so don't

It's okay. Okay, well, thank you, but

I'm going to try my best.

Um I just had um two questions. Um my

first question was just um

why did you decide to come to Harrisburg

and

um want to build a storage unit

um storage five development um on

Cameron Street?

On Cameron Street, excuse me.

Uh a couple reasons. Um I'm a

businessman, so there's a opportunity in

the market. Um there was a building that

was uh underutilized um that came

available.

Um most of our facilities are

conversions of existing facilities into

or existing structures

um into self-storage facilities.

Uh we do ground up, but a

majority are are conversions. So there

was a market opportunity. Um

second reason is um

it's a it's a capital city. So um

you're kind of guaranteed it its

existence and hopefully continued

growth. Um visiting the area, there's a

lot of infrastructure projects going on

right around this site. Um so I think

that that shows progress and I think

everybody kind of alluded to that

earlier about wanting to get more

development around that area. Um

I personally like to visit Harrisburg

and Hershey. Um my wife has family

there. Uh I have a young daughter and we

like to come and visit. I like to visit

places I do projects in. So um

you know, obviously the business aspect

is

the the driving force there, but uh it's

also a place I like to visit.

Well, thank you. That was a pretty good

answer, especially since you like to

come visit and

pour your money into our city. So I I

can't object to that part. Um

my last question was I just was

wondering what the address was to the

storage five Is it called storage five?

That will be what it's called. I know

it's storage five development LLC. I did

find that online, but is that what all

your storage units are called?

No, so everyone is a single asset

entity.

So storage five Harrisburg LLC is the

entity that owns this facility. The one

at Nationwide Boulevard, um that is

under a name storage five Capital City

PA LLC. Um and then again, across the

country, they're going to be similar

storage five something. Usually it's

it's the name of the city or township or

street it's on. Um but again, this one

will be managed by Extra Space Storage.

So it's going to be branded Extra Space

Storage, which is the green storage

facility. And it has a specific store

number, if you'd like that. Um it won't

be on the sign, but it'll be

uh part of its um like when it does its

business filings for for employee tax

and stuff, it'll be on it. Okay, no, I

didn't want to I didn't want the number.

I was trying to see what it looked like

in King of Prussia to see what it might

look like here, but

>> Oh, oh, oh, the King of Prussia The King

of Prussia one? Um that one is

>> Space.

>> Yeah, that one's branded as a um a

Public Storage. Okay.

>> And I can give you the address of it.

It's probably the easiest way. Yeah, I

just wanted to see what it could

possibly look like cuz the pictures were

black and white. I I don't really know

what that's going to look

>> Yeah, that's the King of Prussia one.

It's

125

Borough, b o b o r o

Line Road.

Um

the King of Prussia. Thank you. And

there's an Extra Space facility on

Lincoln Town Road.

Ah.

That's the same company.

>> That's the managing the storage

facilities owned by companies like this.

>> the same. Okay, thank you.

>> Yeah, but I I would I would caution you

to if you're looking at other Extra

Spaces, I couldn't really hear that.

Some Extra Spaces are corporate owned,

which are typically

you know,

and then some are or some are managed

like mine. So quality varies. Ours Our

Our quality is built to class A. So what

I just gave you the address in King of

Prussia is a pretty good representation

of what a finished product would look

like. Well, that's good to know cuz we

only want class A here.

Nothing else in the alphabet. Thank you.

So that's it for me.

Thank you so much.

You're welcome. Thank you. Thank you,

Councilman

Ross. Um Councilman uh Rodriguez.

Thank you, Chairwoman Lawson. Um no

questions for me. I did have a question

geared around WBE and MBE participation,

but uh you've alluded that you weren't

familiar with the program at the time.

Um I just want to say as you're going

city to city, state to state, you might

definitely want to do just a little bit

more due diligence of, you know, the

different areas. We're not all a

monolith. There are differences and

variances depending where you go, more

rural, more urban. Um to your point, Mr.

uh

Katani Katani Katanea Katanya. Katanya.

Um you are right, this is the capital.

Uh but, you know, as a city high in the

70th percentile of um

uh

just uh WBE MBE uh participation,

looking to participate. It's uh

it's something we champion, although we

know we don't have control over how

independent dollars are spent as opposed

to development, but it is something that

is near and dear to this council's

heart. So um you know, any any support

you could give to local businesses in

the area, it would definitely be an

advantage to uh you know, just the

juvenile rejuvenation

uh revitalization of the local area and

our economy. Um

and like I said, it's no pressure on

you, but it is something we definitely,

you know, champion and look forward to

with that kind of participation. So uh

thank you for joining via virtual and

thank you, gentlemen, for being here.

That's all for

>> Understood, thank you.

All right.

Thank you, Councilman Rodriguez, and

Councilwoman Day.

Thank you, Councilman Lawson, and thank

you, Mr. Knight, Mr. Katanya, Mr. Clark,

and I think there might be one other

person. Thank you for being here this

evening.

Um my sentiments, as my colleagues

mentioned, we appreciate any

consideration for the

women-owned, minority, and diverse

business

any work that you can give our local

community.

Um I have a question here. I don't

remember why I wrote this question down,

but I'm going to ask it anyway.

And this question is for Mr. Knight.

What would be required in terms of

refuse refuse collection for a project

of this magnitude?

And

recycling dumpster or can recycling be

put in a dumpster in this particular on

this site? Um so that's

something that would best be answered by

the Department of Public Works. And

actually, this project was the first one

that we've looped in the Department of

Public Works on preliminary reviews.

Usually it's like police, fire, city

engineer,

but you know, we had been putting

recommendations in of coordinate with

the Department of Public Works, and I

just figured out like why don't we just

do that as a part of the uh review

process. So I do believe they've uh

reviewed this. I don't know off the top

of my head whether they responded or

not, but um you know, the applicant will

need to coordinate with them on refuse

disposal going forward. And you know, as

a self-storage facility, I wouldn't

imagine it's generating a lot of um

trash on a daily basis. You don't have

like a lot of people there. Maybe people

are throwing stuff out from their uh

units, but I'd imagine a dumpster would

be necessary uh for the for the use.

Okay, thank you. That was my thought at

first that this would be a question for

public works, but I just thought I'd ask

anyway. Otherwise, my questions have

been answered. And thank you again for

being here this evening.

Okay, Councilwoman Jones. Yeah, I got

one last question. So, say some of these

storage units once they up and running

and and someone leaves them behind. Do

we have Storage Wars in Harrisburg?

>> [laughter]

>> No, what do you do? Honestly, what do

you do with those storage?

The the the answer is you could come to

Harrisburg.

Yes, they auction off units. That That's

handled at the management level. So, the

the Extra Space Storage would do that.

I I don't believe that any of our

facilities have ever been featured on

Storage Wars. It's a question I get

asked all the time.

I would I would caution that it's not as

a glamorous. Most time when people

abandon a unit, it's a it's a bed frame

that that we got to get rid of.

Not not treasure, so

But it could happen. That was just a

question. I I mean, it was funny, but it

was a serious question. Honestly, I mean

No, I I I get it. I get it. But it it it

does get brought up a lot. Storage

auctions in Pennsylvania are governed by

a state statute. What notice you get,

how how it has to happen, the time

frames. So, it's pretty black and white.

And the the last thing hopefully that

you can send over again just um

I don't know it's what's in the in the

resolution already with the know to the

MBE WBE DBE.

But

we did have you say that you're looking

to at least spend 50% of that spend here

in the city, correct?

Yeah.

All right. Thank you.

>> Yes.

You said yeah. You sure?

>> [laughter]

>> Yeah. As much as as much as we can spend

there locally, that's that's the goal.

I appreciate it. Okay, so Mr.

>> one last thing. Just just a point of

reference, it's question number five on

the application. So, just in case you

see it again, it it's on the

application. It was question number

five. Yeah, and and I'm sorry that I

didn't clearly hear it earlier. And and

we're very familiar with with with small

business women on business, minority

owned businesses. And we do lots of work

with them across the country. There's

there's no reason that we would exclude

them. That that's

crazy to even think about.

We encourage that and I and I personally

encourage it. So,

we'll we'll be looking for businesses

like that. Thank you. Yeah, it's a long

acronym, so It is.

I apologize. But no, thank you for

explaining that more.

That's it for me. And it looks like uh

Councilwoman Davis, thank you.

Councilwoman Lawson,

one more question. Where would the local

or the jobs be listed? Would that be

Would they be listed on Is it PennBid or

how

would you advertise those positions

jobs

for the local community?

>> For

specifically for the construction side?

Or any of them?

The I know the the construction side,

yeah, there there's various portals that

the the general contractor is going to

put the

the plan set into and then they'll be

able to get solicitations from

whoever's signed up to those those those

specific portals or or websites, which

they're pretty common.

Like PennBid and stuff like that. And

then when it comes to the actual

employment of the of the

once the facilities open,

I know Extra Space, they will about one

or two months before they'll solicit for

job openings in the community cuz these

people live and work there.

How they do that, I I believe it's

through various online

work, you know,

related sites.

And then they'll bring them into the

program if they're new to storage and

they'll train them at another facility,

get them ready to to come to ours.

I would think like, you know,

your typical job search websites. I'm

I'm not familiar with that as much as I

am the construction side.

Thank you. I know PennBid is one that

Mhm.

Are you familiar, Mr. Neidert solicitor,

other

portals?

So, there's there are really two

different things. The construction one,

they may or may not use a site like

PennBid.

But

the you have the state Department of

Labor has sites various entities have

sites for jobs.

And so,

it really will be I think Extra Space is

a sophisticated player in management and

ownership. And they will probably have

it down to how they advertise for jobs

in the community.

Okay, thank you very much. I will note

I'm a tenant and the same guy has worked

there ever since we first rented a spot,

the exact same man. So,

Thank you.

That's great. And anyone

else have any questions?

Okay, so

Mr. Can

Cantania?

>> Cantania. Cantania.

>> Yeah. All right. So, thank you very much

for

zooming in here with us. And we we said

that we wouldn't put any pressure on

you, but

our diversity officer heard that you

didn't hear of you didn't know of WBE,

so she came to our meeting today. We'll

make sure that she can get contact

information to

to your company. So, this way when you

guys are talking to the general

contractor, he can reach out to her to

say, "Hey, what companies can we hire as

subs to to work on this project?"

That'd be fantastic.

All right. So,

based on

his willingness to to to to work with us

and

the fact that you're taking care of the

flood issues, I'd love to

recommend resolution 2026 to make it to

our legislative agenda.

Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Next, we have the Parks, Recreation, and

Enrichment Committee. I will defer to

our Parks, Recreation, and Enrichment

Committee Chair, Councilwoman Rawls, to

lead discussion. Thank you, President

Hill.

Mr. Truesdale, can you please read

resolution 21 of 2026 in

Resolution 21 2026. A resolution

authorizing the submission of a grant

application to the Pennsylvania

Department of Con- Conservation and

Natural Resources Community Conversation

Partnership Grant Program in conjunction

with the Capital Area Greenbelt

Association for up to $100,000

for funds to acquire real property in

order to relocate a portion of the

Capital Area Greenbelt in South

Harrisburg.

Thank you, Mr. Truesdale. Who is here

from the administration to speak further

on this resolution?

Good evening. My name is Debbie

Breihart. I work as a project manager

for the Department of Facilities and

Special Projects.

Thank you. Good

Good evening, Ms. Breihart. How are you?

>> I'm great. How are you? Good, thank you.

Yeah, [clears throat] so as soon as Mr.

Truesdale is done, you can go ahead and

take it away. And do you want to

introduce yourself, too? I know who you

are, but Yes, hi. I'm I'm Doug Hill and

I am president of the Capital Area

Greenbelt Association.

I'm a city resident downtown, 709 Green

Street.

Thank you, Mr. Hill.

Go ahead, Ms. Breihart.

So, I'm I'm going to step up. Uh

I appreciate you bringing the resolution

up for consideration tonight. And

certainly we appreciate all the work the

city's been doing with the Capital Area

Greenbelt Association

to try to restore the link in South

Harrisburg that we lost because of the

development of the Veterans Outreach,

Eden Village, and Town Towers.

We You have the application in front of

you, the resolution. There's also a

four-page summary of where we stand

relative to doing the connection. As you

can see, it's a little bit

complicated project. We've divided it

into two phases. And so, the application

that you have for a grant under

consideration this evening is for

property acquisition for phase two. And

with your permission, I'll just do a

very brief overview to give you a little

bit better context of what you have

under consideration.

So, the Greenbelt historically on this

chart, this is the Susquehanna, Cameron

Street across the top,

and the traditional trail of the

Greenbelt went down through here and out

this way.

This is all the portion that we lost to

the development for the housing for the

veterans and critical needs first

responders.

And so, since that time we have been

detouring from Front Street along

Sycamore Street to Cameron,

back over and in at Shenoy and then

reconnecting with the trail here.

We've been working to develop a

reconnection that is safer and more

suitable for the type of users that we

have. And we've divided it into two

phases.

The reason is phase one is just a little

bit easier. Phase one comes from Front

Street to the driveway at Pennsy Supply.

And that is all city property.

Essentially, we're widening the sidewalk

along Sycamore Street along with an

access

and a crosswalk down at Front Street.

Phase one, we have grant funding in

place, $750,000

in LSA funds from DCD, as well as

$150,000 from DCNR. And we have some

funds available as well from a private

prior Dolphin County gaming grant. Phase

two is to make the final reconnection

and that is a little bit more complex.

And what we will be doing is what we

what we are working on doing because

it's not nothing's finalized yet is to

do a ramp off of the Pennsy driveway

down parallel to Sycamore Street

underneath Sycamore Street bridge and

then through a lot here and reconnecting

to city property. And so that's the very

brief overview. To give you a little bit

better perspective this larger view is

the entirety of the Pennsy property and

so they're all currently in act still in

active operation. This is Interstate 83

Paxton Street Sycamore Street over here.

And what we're talking about is some

land acquisition in this immediate area.

And so what we handed you tonight so

that you have a graphic and don't have

to figure it all out from our four-page

description

shows you the land acquisition that

we're talking about. So phase one comes

to

up here to right about here at the

driveway and then phase two begins there

and the design we we have again loops

around underneath comes through this lot

and reconnects and this is city land

from here on down. The trail's not

developed there yet but that is city

property right now. It's already

dedicated for recreational use.

So the grant application is to acquire

the land that we need

from Pennsy Supply to do this and it's

in two different parts. The first part

on the north side of Sycamore Street is

about por 0.4 acre right-of-way

acquisition. So we wouldn't be

subdividing we would just be acquiring

right-of-way.

And [snorts] then acquiring all together

by fee simple a currently subdivided

property on the south side of Sycamore

Street

owned by Pennsy Supply. We are in

negotiations with Pennsy on the

acquisition. We've completed one

appraisal. They've asked us to complete

a second appraisal for comparison

purposes. We expect that appraisal will

be completed by the end of April and

then we'll go into final negotiations on

purchase price. As you'll see we have

letters of support from the president of

Pennsy Supply for the project obviously

not committing to sell the land to us

but rather commitment to continue these

negotiations if we reach an agreement on

a price then transfer will be made.

>> [snorts]

>> It was more convenient to do a

right-of-way on the north side because

subdivision is a

tricky in this location and particularly

because Pennsy ultimately

may be conveying the may be selling the

entirety of their property as they

readjust their operations. And so the

right-of-way seems to make the most

sense. As I noted this lot is already

subdivided. It's about 1.3 acres.

And is rather easily developed. It's all

flat and while you see the design here

with the zigzag

this was done if we thought we needed to

stay close to the boundary line. We

don't and so instead we'll probably do a

little more meandering through and still

connect right over here. So the

application is for $100,000

for DCNR and it's on the C2P2 program

the community conservation preservation

part or partnership program. It is a

50/50 match so we're obligated to raise

the other $100,000 to match against

that. The and you see the

how we break that down in our narrative.

Um

I will note

since we submitted this our costs our

estimated costs have gone up a little

bit for two reasons. Number one Pennsy

asked for the second

appraisal and so that's going to be

about $16,000 all together. And then

second

when we go to do the survey because we

abut the railroad there are some special

requirements to when you're doing a

survey and you're touching railroad

property and that may increase the cost

of the survey. So we're now estimating

total cost is going to be about

$216,000.

The first appraisal we got for the

property shows the lot value

is $150,000

or $125,000

and the value of the right-of-way is

$50,000. Again we don't have any

preliminary numbers for the second

appraisal but we'll be seeing how that

compares.

So I think that's the briefest overview

on the page I sent

put in front of you you can see where

the property line runs. It's something

of a faint line but at least you can

look at it a little bit more closely and

get a better perspective of where it is.

The lots would be the lot would be

conveyed to the city the right-of-way

would be conveyed to the city

and so would become part of city's

recreational properties.

I'll be happy to answer any questions.

Thank you Mr. Hill. I didn't have a

question as of now. I just wanted to

clarify and you can tell me if I'm wrong

because you had already mentioned

it's a one-to-one match Right. and that

COG is going to be responsible for

raising the $100,000 and I just wanted

to note that I believe

I know my council members saw but

anybody online who didn't see the

resolution that part of the way you are

going to raise the money is to apply for

a gaming grant for $75,000.

>> That application's already pending.

Okay. Thank you. I just wanted to make a

note of that. Yes. Thank you. You're

welcome.

>> And I'll note as well that part of this

includes

the some of the survey work and the all

the legal costs that are involved and

we're in discussion with the city

whether that can be absorbed through the

city offices.

To absorb the legal costs.

>> Right. Okay.

I'll start to my far right with

Councilman Lawson.

Thank you. I I don't have any uh

I don't have any questions right now but

thank you for that presentation. Thank

you for the the work you're putting

together here keeping the uh

the the cyclers and the walkers safe.

That's that was my main concern

when you're detour through Cameron

Street and and so

hat's off to you. Thank you.

Councilwoman

Green. Thank you very much. I don't have

any questions regarding this. It's

pretty simple why wouldn't we want to

authorize the submission of a grant

application, right? Thank you for the

work that you do and for continuing to

push this forward. Often times things

get changed and they kind of just get

left behind or pushed to the side. So

thank you for continuing to push this

forward.

Vice President Jones.

Thank you. No questions.

President Hill.

Thank you. Good evening. I don't have

any questions.

Councilman Rodriguez.

Thank you Madam Chair. Always a pleasure

to see you. Thank you both for joining

us this evening.

No questions for me. I knew this was

coming in some way of fashion when

Tonals for Towers project was announced

and if you remember my big thing was I

didn't want COG left with this big bill

trying to figure things out. So I'm glad

there's some light at the end of the

tunnel when you're making great

progress. So just looking forward to it

and as Councilman Lawson said you know

that vision zero making sure the

cyclists making sure you know the

walkers are safe high priority. So kudos

and hats off to you and

if you need any help please let us know.

Thank you. Thank you. And Councilwoman

Davis. Thank you Councilwoman Rawls and

good evening Mr. Reinhardt and President

Hill. Thank you for your work and I

don't have any questions. Have a good

evening.

I just could you just clarify the

timeline again? I was typing and then

you went a little bit too fast and my

hands did.

Okay. For this grant the deadline for

submission is April 30th. And so you are

well ahead of schedule

understanding the potential if you act

favorably tonight that it can be on the

agenda next week for final final

approval.

I will note we

are

working with the city staff right now in

preparation of submittal of another

grant to DCED. This is a more

generalized grant would be for about

$250,000

for design work for phase two. And

you'll note in the narrative we already

have a grant application pending that

the city sponsored with PennDOT for I

believe that's

$895,000

and that's for the construction for

phase two. Okay. Thank you. I should

have clarified I meant timeline for the

project. I'm sorry. Okay. Timeline for

the project phase one we are in the

process of signing the engineering

contract getting the final design work

done.

The only issue we have with phase one is

that because it involves moving the

Jersey barrier that's there on the

Sycamore Street overpass over the

railroad we have special approvals

required from Amtrak and that can take 6

to 12 months. And so optimistically

if we get that moving and get those

approvals we'll begin

construction on phase one in the spring.

Phase two will be entirely dependent on

whether we get the PennDOT grant for the

construction work for phase two. And

then from there we'll be able to develop

a better calendar.

Thank you very much. I don't have any

other questions and I recommend that

resolution 21 of 2026

be on the next legislative agenda and

that is it for the Parks, Recreation and

Enrichment Committee. Thank you.

Thank you.

We will move forward with our meeting

agenda. Next we have public comment.

Just a few housekeeping notes before we

begin. If you're interested in offering

any public comments, please state your

name and your address for the meeting

record.

>> [clears throat]

>> If you don't feel comfortable sharing

your address, please share the vicinity

in which you live within the city.

You will have 4 minutes to share your

comments. Mr. Truesdale has added a

timer for the screen for your reference.

I'll begin to my right. Is there anyone

that would like to offer public comment?

Yes, ma'am.

Okay.

I'm Brian Muhammad.

2346 Loose Street.

I'm I'm calling about speed bumps.

So we need some on

Loose Street. There's a lot of children

on Loose Street.

A lot of activity on Loose Street. I

talked to

Public Works.

They said they were going to send

engineers out there to put some stuff

down to

track

the

the traffic.

Putting their traffic.

Trap houses, stash houses, all that

stuff there.

And the motorcycle guys are with the

small motorcycle there. They're

That's Loose Street.

And Derry Street, that's a hot mess.

Always a lot of accidents on Derry

Street.

And North 20th Street needs speed bumps.

That is the thoroughfare to uptown now,

especially this since Market Street's

all messed up.

They fly up there.

On 20th Street. That's between Market

and

Whitehall.

Okay. That's all I have right right now.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Is there anyone in the middle section

that would like to offer public comment?

Seeing hearing no one, anyone to my

left?

Okay, seeing and hearing no one, the

time is 7:01 p.m. I will entertain a

motion to adjourn. Motion to adjourn. Is

there a second? So moved. Thank you. We

stand adjourned.