Harrisburg City Council Legislative Session - 12/15/2025

Prior to calling the meeting to order,

I'd like to conduct our legislative

caucus. So, following our caucus, I will

call the meeting to order. Mr. Trudale

will call the role. The invocation this

evening will be led by Councilwoman

Ross, followed by the pledge of allegian

allegiance, excuse me, which will be led

by Councilman Rodriguez.

For communications this evening, we are

joined by Mr. Cedric Humphrey, the

assistant city clerk, who will share a

presentation, city council's year in

review. We will then move to courtesy of

the floor followed by the approval of

minutes for the legislative session that

occurred on November 25th, 2025 and the

approval of the minutes for the special

legislative session that occurred on

December 9th, 2025.

Uh you will hear reports from the

following committees. I will deliver

um a report from the administration

committee on the work session of

December 9th, 2025.

Vice President Green will deliver a

report on behalf of the budget and

finance committee on the work session of

December 9th, 2025.

Councilman Jones, our public safety

chair, will share a report on the work

session that occurred on December 9th,

2025.

and Councilman Rodriguez, our public

works committee chair, will deliver a

report on the work session that occurred

on December 9th, 2025. There are no

ordinances for first reading. Ordinances

for amendment, we have bill 12 of 2025,

bill 13 of 2025, bill 14 of 2025,

and bill 15 of 2025.

Ordinances for final passage. Bill 12 of

2025, Bill 13 of 2025, bill 14 of 2025,

and bill 15 of 2025.

We will then move to resolutions. The

first resolution for consideration is

resolution 74 of 2025, which we will

vote upon. Resolution 86 of 2025, we

will vote upon. Resolution 87 of 2025,

we will vote upon. Resolution 88 of

2025, we will vote upon. Resolution 89

of 2025, we will vote upon resolution 90

of 2025. We will vote upon resolution 91

of 2025. We will vote upon and

resolution 92 of 2025. We will vote

upon. Is there any old business for

discussion, council members?

Okay, seeing and hearing none, any new

business?

Okay, Vice President Green, any other

new business?

Okay, and then we will adjourn.

Okay, if everybody is ready to begin,

the time is 6:08 p.m. I would like to

call our legislative session to order.

Mr. Mr. Trudeale, could you please call

the role?

>> Miss Daniels.

>> Miss Daniels.

>> Miss Davis,

>> present.

>> Miss Green,

>> present.

>> Mr. Jones,

>> here.

>> Miss Rolls,

>> present.

>> Mr. Rodriguez,

>> present.

>> Miss Hill,

>> present. The invocation will be led by

Councilwoman Ross.

Thank you. Um, President Hill, I just

want us all to take a moment. Um, the

holidays are coming up. Uh, the weather

is getting cold. Um, snowstorms. Just

thinking of people who are less

fortunate, who are not excited for the

holidays and are just trying to get

through them. Uh, I just want us to take

a moment and think of everyone in need.

Um, for a moment, please.

Thank you.

>> Thank you, Councilwoman Ross. The pledge

of allegiance will be led by Councilman

Rodriguez.

>> All rise for the pledge. [clears throat]

>> I pledge allegiance

>> to the flag of the United States of

America and to the stands nation

for all.

Thank you, Councilman Rodriguez. For

communications this evening, we are

joined by Assistant City Clerk, Mr.

Cedric Humphrey, who will share city

council's year in review. Mr. Humphrey.

>> Thank you, President Hill. Um, like I've

said, my name is Cedric Humphrey. I'm

the assistant city clerk and I'm just

really quickly going to share the 2025

Harrisburg City Council year in review

and we'll take a little stroll down

memory lane as we wrap up this last

session of the year.

So, starting out with some committee

work and legislative highlights. Um, in

2025, the Harrisburg City Council

continued its work with a focus on

oversight, transparency, and

collaboration. Uh, the committee

leadership remained as President Hill,

the chair of the administration

committee, Vice President Green, Budget,

and Finance Committee, Councilwoman

Daniels, Community Economic Development,

Councilwoman Davis, Building and

Housing, Councilwoman RWS, Parks,

Recreation, and Enrichment. Councilman

Rodriguez, public works, and Councilman

Jones, public safety. Over the year,

council completed several key

legislative actions, including approving

multiple land development plans,

including the landmark Penmark project,

which also required a zoning MACM

amendment and a public hearing prior to

its adoption. Filling all boards and

commissions for which council holds the

appointing authority, ensuring full and

effective membership across the

adversary adversary bodies, authorizing

routine operational legislation,

including contracts, appointments, and

administrative approvals necessary for

city functions. And tonight, adopting

the 2026 budget, completing council's

annual fiscal responsibilities.

This year, council held several targeted

policy work sessions to gather

information, review performance, and

promote new ideas, and increase

transparency. The topics included a

policy work session around the center

for employment opportunities um

providing opportunities for supporting

re-entry and workforce development, a an

active boards and commissions policy

work session where we reviewed vacancies

and the appointment processes and

ensured that the bodies remain engaged

in functional and an ARPA spending

update um a policy work session around

the status of the remaining allocations

from bill 5 of 2023 and council received

progress updates on the currently funded

projects. These sessions uh strengthen

council's oversight role and help inform

decision-making.

Recognizing our community throughout

2025, council celebrated residents and

organizations whose achievements and

contributions strengthen the cultural,

athletic, and creative fabric of

Harrisburg. This year, council proudly

recognized the Harrisburg boy Smurf

football team who were a rowdy bunch to

say the least. if you were here that

night. The Harrisburg Flea and Open

Stage Harrisburg. These recognitions

reflect council's gratitude for the

individuals and the organizations who

inspire pride and strengthen our city's

sense of community.

This year, we also uh recognized the

retirement of city clerk Michael Parker

um and celebrated the kindness and

positivity and the friendly spirit he

brought to city hall. He was always

someone who greeted others with warmth

and made the workplace feel welcoming.

and his upbeat attitude, helpfulness,

and genuine care for the people around

him made a lasting impression on staff,

council members, and visitors alike. He

was a bright spot in the building, and

his presence will be missed and has

certainly been missed since we've since

he's left us.

Engaging our community council remained

active and visible throughout the

community, engaging directly with

residents through events including a

town hall series in partnership with the

Harrisburg School District which

launched in October to create an open

forum for conversations on education,

safety, and community priorities. The

National African-American Readin at

Marshall where council members and

office staff join students and teachers

in celebrating literacy, culture, and

black authors. Council also participated

in the city's annual holiday parade,

celebrating community pride and holiday

spirit and as always participated in

National Night Out where the council

connected with families, neighbors, and

law enforcement to support community

safety and trust building.

And there were several council supported

events and initiatives this year as

well. council proudly supported

initiatives in citywide events that

brought residents together, including

Hotspot Saturdays in its third

iteration. Uh this year, they removed

78.4 tons of illegal dumping and as a

total have now surpassed 200 tons of

illegal dumping waste that's been

removed from the city since the

program's inception. And the program

also was part of the reason why um there

was an award, the keep PA award. Um,

pre-tick-or- treat night as always in

partnership with the Harrisburg Fire

Department. The second annual Dez Mingus

Classic continuing the celebration of a

beloved coach in the city and supporting

youth athletics and the SNAP program

meal distribution where on November 7th,

uh, Councilman Rodriguez, Craw Daddy's,

and the public works team fed over 300

hot meals to residents that had lost

their staff benefits due to the federal

shutdown. And all of this work took

place at our public works building on

Paxton Street.

This year, several council members were

able to attend the National League of

Cities Conference in Salt Lake City. Uh

council members represented Harrisburg

at the 2025 NLC conference where they

participated in sessions on housing,

public safety, infrastructure, and

municipal innovation, engaged with local

leaders from across the country, shared

Harrisburg's priorities, and highlighted

challenges effective with local

governments. and the attendance at the

NLC reinforced council's commitment to

professional development and informed

policym

and so looking back at 2025 by the

numbers this year Harrisburg City

Council considered 92 resolutions 15

bills including the 2026 proposed budget

which will be voted on tonight. There

were nine land development plans

approved by council. Altogether, council

heard over two hours of public comment

during meetings, which is always my

favorite thing to go back and look up

when making this PowerPoint, and held

three policy work sessions focused on

employment opportunities, boards and

commissions, and Bill 5, 2023, ARPA

spending.

And like always, Harrisburg City Council

is nothing without the community that it

serves. In 2026, we want to hear from

more residents in the city, more of you.

So, you can join us for a meeting. Work

sessions occur every 1 and third Tuesday

at 5:30 p.m. Legislative sessions every

second and fourth Tuesday at 6 pm. You

can follow us on Facebook, Instagram.

Um, subscribe to the city's YouTube

channel where all of the meetings are

streamed. And you can also check out the

city calendar for exciting events and

upcoming meetings.

>> Thank you very much.

I always look forward to our year in

review because it's a great reminder of

the um hard work that we do throughout

the year. So, thank you very much, Mr.

Humphrey.

>> Thank you.

>> We will now move on with our meeting

agenda to courtesy of the floor. Just a

few housekeeping notes before we begin.

If you're interested in offering any

public comment, please state your name

and your address for the meeting record.

If you don't feel comfortable sharing

your address, please share the vicinity

in which you live within the city, you

will have four minutes to share your

comments.

U Mr. Trudale will serve as our

timekeeper. I think he's going to add a

timer to the screen and I will begin to

my right. Is there anyone that would

like to offer public comment? Okay,

seeing and hearing no one, anyone in the

middle section?

Seeing and hearing no one, anyone to my

left? Seeing and hearing no one, we will

move forward with our meeting agenda.

Next, we have the approval of minutes

for the legislative session that

occurred on November 25th, 2025. Council

members, are there any revisions to

those meeting minutes?

Okay, seeing hearing none, the minutes

stand approved. Next, we have the

approval of minutes for the legislative

session or excuse me, the special

legislative session that occurred on

uh December 9th, 2025.

Are there any revisions to those meeting

minutes?

Okay, seeing and hearing none, the

minutes stand approved. We will now move

forward with reports of committees. I

will deliver the first report on behalf

of the administration committee on the

work session of December 9th, 2025.

On Tuesday, December 9th, 2025,

Harrisburg City Council hosted a work

session. The administration committee

met to discuss um one bill and two

resolutions.

The first bill was bill 15 of 2025, an

ordinance amending chapter 2-701,

compensation of elected officials of

title 2 administrative code to adjust

the compensation of the elected

officials of the city of Harrisburg.

The interim business administrator,

uh, Mr. Samowski was present to discuss

the bill. I would like to note for the

meeting record, Mayor Williams was not

present to discuss bill 15 of 2025.

[sighs] Mr. Sowski shared information

relating to um other mayoral salaries,

other uh city treasurer salaries, other

city controller salaries, and other city

council salaries. Some, not all, of

which um are part-time roles. Um, of

course, the mayor salaries that he

shared are full-time roles, but the

majority of the remaining salaries um

are part-time.

Council members asked questions um

relating to the bill. Sh some shared uh

their thoughts on the bill. Uh at the

time of the work session, I tabled the

bill. Um at that time we wanted to

review the document that Mr. Sowski um

was referencing during his presentation

of the bill. Um the next day he shared

it. So that's why you'll see it on our

uh legislative session agenda this

evening for a formal vote. Um I

recommend to my council members to vote

as you please um on bill 15 of 2025.

Um, I will be voting no and I will share

my thoughts later.

So, that was bill 15 of 2025.

Next, resolution 86 of 2025, a

resolution authorizing the city of

Harrisburg to negotiate and enter into a

professional services contract with

Steve Zimmerman to provide access and

service of the city's historical

mainframe programming operations and

related services in the Bureau of

Information Technology.

Uh, Mr. Steve Bortner was present to

discuss resolution 86 of 2025. Mr.

Bortner serves as the IT director for

the city of Harrisburg.

He shared um that Mr. Zimmerman assists

with the day-to-day operations uh data

requests on the mainframe. Uh he assists

with exporting the data from the

mainframe. Um he noted that Mr. Zimmer

Mr. Zimmerman's hourly rate in 2025

um was $100. There is an increase this

year to $115

per hour equating to $120,000

for the year.

Um there was one question that I asked.

I asked how long do we anticipate the

need for Mr. Zimmerman's services? Um as

we all know this is a recurring

agreement every year. Um, Mr. Bortner

noted that he anticipates the need of

Mr. Zimmerman's services for the full

year of 2026 and partially um through

the following year of 2027.

I encourage my colleagues to support

resolution 86 of 2025

um as the city continues to migrate off

of the um historic main frame.

Next, resolution 89 of 2025, a

resolution approving the extension of

the Broad Street Market lease and

management agreement between the city of

Harrisburg and the Broad Street Market

Alliance.

Mi solicitor Grover was present to

discuss resolution 89 of 2025.

Um

the request is to extend the current

lease until December of 2026.

Um he mentioned a grant for renovation

of the stone building.

Um but he also mentioned that a

long-term plan is needed.

Meetings will begin in January.

Questions. Uh council members asked the

following questions. really relative to

the tent. Um what is the city paying?

How long are the are

we going to pay that rate? Um Mr. uh

Grover shared that there are three

separate leases currently present. Um

one with the tent, one with the land.

And

I think it's unfortunate that today a

wall collapsed at the market. So, it

seems timely that we're having this

discussion. I really do hope that

whatever meetings of smaller groups are

coming together with either the um Broad

Street Market Alliance Board, the

members of the administration that are

active in the process of the rebuild of

the market, um members of the public,

whoever is a part of these meetings, I

hope that they do begin in January and

that we have some type of resolve or

something to share um with members of

the public, residents, and all lovers of

the Broad Street circuit. So, I um

encourage my colleagues to support

resolution 89 of 2025 as um a means to

continue this painstaking work of

rebuilding the broad street market. This

concludes um the report for the

administration committee and the work of

the administration committee for 2025.

The next report will be delivered by

Vice President Green, our budget and

finance committee chair on the work

session of December 9th, 2025. Vice

President Green.

>> Thank you, President Hill. Uh during the

work session of December 9th, 2025, the

budget and finance committee met to

discuss bill 14 of 2025, an ordinance

amending chapter 5-503 tax abatement and

exemption of title 5 licensing and

taxation code to further extend the

statutory termination date by one year

to December 31st, 2026. Uh this was

discussing LERA. Uh we had a

presentation by Mr. Graves as well as

Miss Gloria Martin Roberts uh where they

told us that there was a draft available

of the new letter uh new letter bill but

it was with the school being sent to the

school district and waiting on a

response. Uh and until we got a response

back from the school district we

couldn't move forward because this has

to be a collaboration between all

parties. Um and then we also discussed

resolution 87 of 2025 a resolution

authorizing the city of Harrisburg to

negotiate and enter into a collective

bargaining a excuse me. Oh, I'm just

making stuff up. Um, enter into a

collection agreement with the city uh

the Harrisburg school district for the

collection of the business privilege

mercantile tax and the amusement tax for

the 2026 tax year. This is something

that comes before us every year so that

we can collect the merkantile and the

amusement tax for the school district. I

would ask that my colleagues support

both bill 14 and resolution 87.

While

in December, the budget and finance

committee also met several times

throughout the month of December to host

a series of four budget hearings about

the proposed city of Harrisburg 2026

budget. Uh, as we went through each

department, we had a presentation from

department heads regarding their

department goals, demographics, and

answering any questions council members

uh presented prior to the presentation.

Council members also asked

administration members questions

regarding their budget and their

presentation at the budget hearings. I

would like to thank all department heads

and the administration for participating

in the budget hearings as well as my

colleagues for taking the time to review

the budget and ask insightful questions

to ensure transparency for the residents

of Harrisburg. Uh, I just want to remind

everyone that in order for Harrisburg to

move forward, one of the most important

things we can do is have respectful and

honest discourse between council and the

administration because in the end we

should all have the same goal of making

Harrisburg better. Uh, we are the

capital city. We want to make it the

best place for all who reside here,

including us. And that concludes my

presentation. Thank you.

>> Thank you, Vice President Green.

The next report will be delivered by

Councilman Jones, our public safety

committee chair, on the work session of

December 9th, 2025.

>> Thank you, President Hill. On December

9th of 2025, the public safety committee

held a work session where we discuss

resolution 92 of 2025. Resolution 92 of

2025 is a resolution approving,

adopting, and placing into immediate

effect Dolphin County 2025 emergency

operations plan as the official

emergency operations plan of the city of

Harrisburg.

President to discuss resolution 92 of

2025 was senior deputy chief chief

Michael Solder. Uh we discussed uh we

talked about the need for this emergency

operations plan. We discuss how local,

county, and state government would

implement this plan being on the same

page with shared information. Also, as

this resolution is passed, it will allow

uh certain funding dollars to roll in.

In that regard, uh council really had no

questions. Most of my colleagues

understood the resolution and the need

for it thereof. Deputy Chief Solder was

was thanked for his presentation and

explanation of it. And this will

conclude the business of the public

safety committee. And again, I would ask

my colleagues to support resolution 92

of 2025.

>> Thank you, Councilman Jones. The final

committee report you will hear this

evening will be delivered by our public

works committee chair, Councilman

Rodriguez, on the work session of

December 9th, 20125.

>> Thank you, Madam President. And um

please bear with me to my colleagues and

those in attendance. I'd like to

consolidate just my point of view of the

budget hearings uh in collaboration with

my report. Over the past several weeks,

city council has dedicated a significant

amount of time and energy reviewing the

administration's budget and evaluating

its vision for a more fiscally

responsible city of Harrisburg. Before

sharing my remarks, I want to formally

commend my colleagues on council for

your leadership throughout the process.

Council, I applaud you. The public is

not always aware of the long hours

involved during budget season. Twice

during this process, I found myself

getting home after midnight, and I would

do it all again for the residents of the

city. I cannot forget the

administration's prep preparation and

the presentation of the city's proposed

2026 budget. A huge thank you to our

city clerk's office, our city clerk, Mr.

Jared Trudale, and deputy or assistant

clerk, Mr. Humphre, for everything from

working on the fly to ensuring we were

accommodated. They didn't miss a beat.

And I have to thank you gentlemen on the

record for your efforts. Still, I'd be

remiss not to acknowledge every

department's director and staff for

taking the time to stay late on occasion

to share this information. Passing a

budget that serves more than 50,000

residents and countless businesses is no

small task. It requires us to set aside

our interest and approach this work

collectively with the responsibility to

represent every ward and every precinct

in our city. This process demands that

we put aside ambitions, considerations,

or differences and focus solely on

making the best possible effort for the

people of Harrisburg. So, in addition to

the budget itself, Bill 12 of 2025, one

of the most discussed matters for us has

been Bill 15 of 2025, an ordinance

amending chapter 2-71

of the administrative code to adjust

compensation of elected officials in the

city of Harrisburg.

I want to be clear, this process has not

been perfect. I would have welcomed the

presence of Madame Mayor during the

certain discussions to address some of

the difficult questions raised,

particularly regarding the timing of the

legislation and how such adjustments may

impact future candidates for public

office. At times, discussions became

personal and I believe that energy could

have been better redirected toward the

public interest. For me, this is not

about an increase or decrease in my

salary. The residents of this city as

well as this council know I've

personally given portions of my salary

for the residents on more than one

occasion and would happily do it again.

As with any legislative process, there's

always room for improvements, stronger

collaboration, and better communication.

And I pray the proceedings to follow

this evening are a demonstration of

such. That said, my responsibility as a

councilman is not to govern based on

personal feeling or opinions alone, but

to reflect the voices of the people we

serve. Throughout this budget season,

I've listened closely to residents,

former officials, and business leaders

who share thoughtful and informative

perspectives on both the budget and the

proposed compensation adjustments.

Former city councilman and Harrisburg

resident, Mr. Bruce Weber spoke to the

importance of increasing compensation

for elected officials and referenced

earlier efforts alongside Dr. Eric

Waters to pursue similar legislation

just years ago. Also, Dr. Waters himself

has publicly announced how such

adjustments can be critical to

attracting and retaining qualified,

committed leadership for the future of

our city. Additionally, Mr. Ed Jarrick,

a Harrisburg resident and local business

owner, noted that the last mayor's

compensation adjustment occurred in

around 2013. When accounting for

inflation and cost of living increases

over more than a decade, the proposed

adjustments align closely with what

could be considered modest and

reasonable annual increased over time.

As the capital city of Pennsylvania, it

is appropriate that the leadership

structure reflects both responsibility

and accountability. We also heard from

Henry Hill, a Harrisburg resident and

member of the Intergovernmental

Cooperation Authority. Mr. Hill

acknowledged the transparency of this

year's budget process and commended

council for its thorough questioning and

public engagement. While the A's formal

report will follow the budget's uh

passage, his insight was both valuable

and constructive. Furthermore, the

people of city of Harrisburg entrusted

us with their votes with the expectation

that we would make decisions not only

for today, but for the long-term health

of this city. Every administrative and

legislative actions carries both

positive and negative consequences, and

is our duty to weigh those outcomes

carefully. As an elected official, I

must put aside I and continue to think

about Harrisburg, not just in the

present moment or who holds a current

seat, but 10, 20, and 30 years into the

future. I must also acknowledge the past

mayors, councils, council members,

treasurers, controllers, and public

servants who laid the groundwork that

would even us allow us to have the

conversation here today. At the same

time, I must prioritize, and I have to

reiterate this, I must prioritize the

residents who keep this city functioning

every day. I believe the council's

objective is to make decisions that

support Harrisburg's continued economic

recovery, sustained growth, and eventual

exit from Act 47. I pray the decisions

we make today will leave behind a

stronger capital city for future

grandchildren, both yours and mine. Now,

with committee business. First and

foremost, I'd like to celebrate

Councilwoman Shemaine Daniels, who I

believe may be presiding over her final

council meeting tonight if all goes well

with the budget. Um, thank you,

Councilwoman Daniels. Your service for

over a decade is an accomplishment to

celebrate. Thank you for your unique

perspective and approach to being a

legislator. On December 9th of 2025, the

public works committee met to discuss

three resolutions. Resolution 88 of

2025, Resolution 90 of 2025, and

Resolution 91 of 2025. Joining us were

Director David West, Deputy Director

Kevin Jackson, and department manager

Mr. John Watson. Questions from the

council were minimal, but there were

many salutations and congratulations to

the public works department for their

ongoing excellent work. Some statements

from the council expressed appreciation

that we can ensure students are

traveling safely to and from school when

it's icy due to the benefits of

resolution 90 of 2025 and noted that the

department continues to generate revenue

under resolution 91 of 2025. The

committee chair moved to have all three

resolutions on the floor this evening

for a vote and I ask my colleagues to

support them in the affirmative. That

concludes the report from the public

works committee from the work session of

129 of 2025 and happy holidays and thank

you to everyone.

>> Thank you Councilman Rodriguez. We don't

have any ordinances for first reading.

If everybody is

your pleasure, I would like to move to

resolutions before um discussing the

ordinances for amendment and ordinances

for final passage. So we will move to

resolutions. The first resolution for

consideration this evening is resolution

74 of 2025. Mr. Trudale, could you

please read it into the record?

Resolution 74 2025, a resolution

approving the preliminary/final land

development plan for 333 Market Street

submitted by Bradley Jones of Harristown

Development Corporation to convert

vacant office space into residential

units and associated site and access

improvements.

>> Thank you. Council members, are there

any final questions? comments or

concerns related to resolution 74 of

2025?

>> Yeah, I have a question. Um, Councilman

Jones,

>> was council um

I know you guys had asked for something

from Mr. Jones, some more information. I

know we were tied up 33. Did everybody

get what they needed?

>> It's my understanding I only received a

letter from Mr. Jones and I don't think

it provided the clarity that was

requested.

So, I will be voting no on resolution 74

of 2025.

>> Okay. Yeah. You know, I was a I was a

yes vote on this, but I know I wanted my

colleagues to make sure they had

clarity. So, I mean, I guess the vote's

going to be what it's going to be. Um,

>> okay.

>> All right. That's it.

>> Okay. Thank you. Any other questions,

comments, or concerns related to

resolution 74 of 2025?

As I mentioned, I will be voting no. Um,

my concern lies

um with the lack of information

regarding the third party that will be

involved. Um, so I will be voting no.

Mr. Tuzale, could you please call the

vote?

>> Miss Daniels.

>> Yes.

>> One more time. We saw you take yourself

off mute, but the sound didn't come

through.

>> I'm off mute. I'm off mute. Let's say

yes.

>> Can you hear me?

>> Yep. Now we can.

>> Miss Daniels,

>> yes.

>> There you go. Miss Davis,

>> no.

>> Miss Green,

>> yes.

>> Mr. Jones,

>> yay.

>> Miss Rose,

>> yes.

>> Mr. Rodriguez,

>> yes.

>> Miss Hill,

>> no.

Resolution 74 2025 passes by a vote of 4

to three.

>> Thank you. Next we have resolution 86 of

2025. Mr. Trudeale, could you please

read it into the record?

>> It was 5 to2.

>> I I thought Davis said no or

Councilwoman Davis said no.

>> She did. She we both said no.

>> And then rolls.

>> She said yes.

>> My apologies. Clarification. The vote

passed by a vote of five to two.

>> Thank you. Next we have resolution 86 of

2025. Mr. Trudale, could you please read

it into the record?

Resolution 86, 2025, a resolution

authorizing the city of Harrisburg to

negotiate and enter into a professional

services contract with Steve Zimmerman

to provide access and service of the

city's historical mainframe,

programming, operations, and related

services in the Bureau of Information

Technology.

>> Thank you. Council members, are there

any final questions, comments, or

concerns related to resolution 86 of

2025?

Okay, seeing hearing none, Mr. Mr.

Trudeale, could you please call the

vote?

>> Miss Daniels,

>> yes.

>> Miss Davis,

>> yes.

>> Miss Green,

>> yes.

>> Mr. Jones,

>> yay.

>> Miss Rolls,

>> yes.

>> Mr. Rodriguez,

>> yes.

>> Miss Hill,

>> yes.

>> Resolution 86, 2025 passes by vote of 7

to zero.

>> Thank you. Next we have resolution 87 of

2025. Mr. Trudale, could you please read

it into the record?

>> Resolution 87 2025, a resolution

authorizing the city of Harrisburg to

negotiate and enter into a collection

agreement with the Harrisburg School

District for the collection of the

business privilege and mercantile tax in

the amusement tax for the 2026 tax year.

>> Thank you. Council members, are there

any uh final questions, comments, or

concerns related to resolution 87 of

2025?

>> Okay, seeing and hearing none, Mr.

Trudeale, could you please call the

vote?

>> Miss Daniels,

>> yes.

>> Miss Davis,

>> yes.

>> Miss Green,

>> yes.

>> Mr. Jones,

>> yay.

>> Miss Rolls,

>> yes.

>> Mr. Rodriguez,

>> yes.

>> Miss Hill,

>> yes. Resolution 87 2025 passes by voted

7 to zero.

>> Thank you. Next we have resolution 88 of

2025. Mr. Trudeale, could you please

read it into the record? Resolution 88

2025, a resolution authorizing the city

of Harrisburg to negotiate and enter

into an intergovernmental cooperation

agreement with the Commonwealth of

Pennsylvania Department of General

Services for the purpose of authorizing

the city to provide municipal solid

waste refuge, industrial, lunchroom,

office waste, and recycling collection

and disposal services for designated DGs

facilities within the city.

>> Thank you. Council members, are there

any final questions, comments, or

concerns related to resolution 88 of

2025?

Okay, seeing seeing and hearing none,

Mr. Chel, could you please call the

vote?

>> Miss Daniels,

>> yes.

>> Miss Davis,

>> yes.

>> Miss Green,

>> yes.

>> Mr. Jones,

>> yay.

>> Miss Rolls,

>> yes.

>> Mr. Rodriguez,

>> yes.

>> Miss Hill,

>> yes. Resolution 88 2025 passes by voted

7 to zero.

>> Thank you. Next we have resolution 89 of

2025. Mr. Trudale, could you please read

it into the record?

>> Resolution 89 2025, a resolution

approving the extension of the Broad

Street Market lease and management

agreement between the city of Harrisburg

and the Broad Street Market Alliance.

>> Thank you. Council members, are there

any final questions, comments, or

concerns related to resolution 89 of

2025?

>> Uh, yes, Madam President.

>> Councilman Rodriguez,

>> I just had a question for legal. Um,

Solicitor Grover, are there any updates

yet on the current uh state of the brick

building in regards to what happened

today? Um, I'm just not sure if that

information would be pertinent to the

lease. I don't think it's pertinent to

the lease because they're not

controlling the Rick building until it's

repaired. Right. Right. Um the update as

far as I know is that uh the engineers

and architects were out there today

because we have an insurance carrier.

They have an engineer had been involved

previously. They're coming back to

Harrisburg this week. Uh I think with

the with the engineers that we have uh

and they will have a report as I

understand it tentatively on Thursday. I

just wanted to ensure that we were doing

our due diligence to see if this would

stagnate the process at all or how this

would play into anything.

>> The lease really is about um

>> the land or

>> Well, no, it's about the stone building

and a grant from the Commonwealth to do

some renovations there that they need a

full year's lease in order to move

forward.

>> Okay. Thank you. Nothing further, Madam

President.

>> Thank you. Are there any other

questions, comments, or concerns related

to resolution 89 of 2025? Okay. is

seeing and hearing now. Mr. Trudeale,

could you please call the vote?

>> Miss Daniels,

>> yes.

>> Miss Davis,

>> yes.

>> Miss Green,

>> yes.

>> Mr. Jones,

>> Miss Rolls,

>> yes.

>> Mr. Rodriguez,

>> yes.

>> Miss Hill,

>> yes.

>> Resolution 89 2025 passes by vot 7 to

zero.

>> Thank you. Next we have resolution 90 of

2025. Mr. Trudeale, could you please

read it into the record?

Resolution 90 2025, a resolution

authorizing the city of Harrisburg to

negotiate and enter into a memorandum of

understanding with the Harrisburg School

District to provide salt to the school

district at a price of $125 per ton

during the 2025 2026 winter season.

Thank you. Council members, are there

any final questions, comments, or

concerns related to resolution 90 of

20125?

Seeing and hearing none, Mr. Trudeale,

could you please call the vote?

>> Miss Daniels,

>> yes.

>> Miss Davis,

>> yes.

>> Miss Green,

>> yes.

>> Mr. Jones,

>> yay.

>> Miss Rolls,

>> yes.

Mr. Rodriguez,

>> yes.

>> Miss Hill,

>> yes.

>> Resolution 90 2025 passes by vot 7 to

zero.

>> Thank you. Next, we have resolution 91

of 2025. Mr. Trudale, could you please

read it into the record?

>> Resolution 91205,

a resolution authorizing the renewal of

a services agreement with Penn Waste

Incorporated to continue to serve as the

city's single stream recycling disposal

service.

Thank you. Council members, are there

any final questions, comments, or

concerns related to resolution 91 of

2025?

Seeing and hearing none, Mr. Trudale,

could you please call the vote?

>> Miss Daniels,

>> yes.

>> Miss Davis,

>> yes.

>> Miss Green,

>> yes.

>> Mr. Jones,

>> yay.

>> Miss Rolls,

>> yes.

>> Mr. Rodriguez,

>> yes.

>> Miss Hill,

>> yes. Resolution 91 2025 passes by vote

of 7 to zero.

>> Thank you. Our final resolution for this

evening is resolution 92 of 2025. Mr.

Trudeell, could you please read it into

the record?

>> Resolution 92 2025, a resolution

approving, adopting, and placing into

immediate effect the Dolphin County 2025

emergency operations plan as the

official emergency operations plan of

the city of Harrisburg.

>> Thank you. Council members, are there

any final questions, comments, or

concerns related to resolution 92 of

2025?

Okay, seeing hearing none, Mr. Trudale,

could you please call the vote?

>> Miss Daniels,

>> yes.

>> Miss Davis,

>> yes.

>> Miss Green,

>> yes.

>> Mr. Jones,

>> yay.

>> Miss Rolls,

>> yes.

>> Mr. Rodriguez,

>> yes.

>> Miss Hill,

>> yes. Resolution 92 2025 passes by votes

7 to zero.

>> Thank you.

Okay. So we are going to begin with the

ordinances for amendment. I'd like to

begin with bill 12 of 2025. Mr. Trudale,

could you please read it into the

record?

Bill 12, 2025, an ordinance establishing

the budget for the municipal government

of the city of Harrisburg for the year

2026.

>> Thank you. I would like to um I will

entertain a motion to suspend the rules

for discussion.

>> So move.

>> Is there a second?

>> Second. Thank you.

>> I'd like to invite Mr. McCutchen to the

microphone. Is this appropriate for the

other funds discussion?

>> Okay. Thank you.

I will defer to our budget and finance

committee chair, Vice President Green,

to lead discussion.

>> Thank you very much. Good evening, Mr.

McCutchen. Uh I know you said that you

wanted to take some time just to go over

um city fund balances and things like

that. So, if you'd like to go over that,

we are here for your pleasure.

>> Okay. All right. Very good. Thank you,

uh Vice President Green. Um Thank you,

President Hill. Uh good evening,

everyone. City Council members, Brian

McCutchen, accounting manager, budget

and finance. And just a real quick

update and um I wanted to actually

prepare a schedule summary to distribute

to council members today, but there was

additional refine um proofing work

associated with uh some of the uh the

budget information. uh relative to the

the current year 2025. Uh the the two

main funds of course include the general

fund and neighborhood services. And for

the general fund right now it's still

it's it's very rough because there are

ongoing revenue that's coming in quite

significant revenue and we still have to

process uh two check runs and two

payrolls before the end of this month.

But right now what I'm seeing is

approximately for year-to- date revenue

for the general fund will be and again

this is a projection

uh 80.2 million versus

uh anywhere between 76 and 77 million in

e expenses. Um so that works out to

anywhere between three and $4 million of

net revenue for the year which of course

is a

a favorable thing to report. um what

that does to uh the city's cash fund

balance. Based on that, we we should be

somewhere around 21 to 20 21.5 million

by the end of the year for the general

fund.

Uh and and in in a comparable way for

neighborhood services. Um and again that

includes

uh the mainly the the city's trash

collecting collection revenue sources

and involving the the three burrows. But

right now what I'm seeing is

approximately a break even result for

the year uh where where revenue will

approximate

uh 21.9 million uh versus the same

amount in uh in expense. So that would

get us somewhere around 5.5 million in

cash fund balance for the neighborhood

service fund uh by year end.

So what I can do that the the schedule

or or summary schedule I had in mind to

distribute to you I'm I'm going to of

course keep pushing to work on that and

I can distribute that to you uh

hopefully before the end of this week

just to give you a better a better solid

update. So thank you for that.

>> Thank you very much Mr. McCutchen. I

appreciate your diligence. Um, I think

that's useful information as we're

evaluating the 2026 proposed budget. So,

thank you for that.

>> Shall I move into amendments or did you

want to go first?

>> All right. I will turn it back over to

President Hill.

>> Thank you, Vice President Green. I will

entertain a motion to resume our

legislative session.

>> So moved.

>> Is there a second?

>> Second.

>> Thank you. We will now move to Bill 15

of 2025.

Mr. Trudeale, could you please read it

into the record?

>> Bill 15, 2025, an ordinance amending

chapter 2-701,

compensation of elected officials of

title 2 administrative code to adjust

the compensation of the elected

officials of the city of Harrisburg.

>> President,

>> yes. that you still had a bill on the

floor and open when you moved to this

one without asking for amendments to it.

>> Well, we have to we have to act on bill

15 prior to amendments to the budget is

my understanding.

>> Yeah, I think just to formally table

bill 12 for the moment because you got

two open bills on the floor.

>> Okay, I'll move to table bill 12 of 2025

for the moment.

>> So,

>> thank you.

Okay. So, before us we have one bill,

bill 15 of 2025,

which Mr. Trudale just read into the

record. Council members, are there any

final questions, comments, or concerns

related to Bill 15 of 2025?

>> Uh, I do have um

a statement more than a concern.

>> Sure, Councilwoman Ross. So, bill bill

bill 15 which speaks about the

compensation of elected officials which

I know is a huge topic. Um

when I first um heard the bill,

I initially definitely um in my mind

thought yes, I think separating

the person from the seat. Uh

a raise is necessary and speaking of the

mayor seat and other elected officials.

um even in the treasurer's department

where they've just now resumed hours to

4 pm

and then um

I got an overwhelming amount of emails

from my constituents, my the residents

of Harrisburg who feel there should be

no raises. Our city is in distress.

um

the way our city looks, the way our city

feels,

that money could be used in a better

way. Although it is a small portion

which um interim acting business

administrator um Mr. Sooski sent us and

said it's only $65,000

out of the $88 million budget. Small,

yes, but couldn't that money be used

somewhere else? Um, another thing, I

never asked for a raise as a council

member. Um, I'm not here in this seat

for the money. I'm here to help the

residents of Harrisburg to be their

voices, which why they elected me

was because where they are not speaking,

I am. When they are rooms, not in rooms

that I am in, I am speaking. Like now,

everybody in the city is not here. Not

even a portion of the residents are, but

they still reached out in their own

voice and asked no.

So for me,

although yes, I do believe setting aside

the mayor seat other than all the other

elected officials, that seat does need a

raise. But now is not the time and my

residents of Harrisburg have said that.

So when they reach out to me and say no

or yes, I vote the way that they asked

me to because they placed me in that

this seat for that reason. So I didn't

want anyone to assume or guess or make

believe on why my answer was no. I

wanted to speak on why I'm voting no

tonight. why I've changed my mind is

because the residents of Harrisburg who

reached out to me have asked me to and

I believe in

what they need for the city and what we

need for the city and I will be voting

no on bill 15 cuz one I don't need a

raise and I haven't asked for one and

two the residents of Harrisburg want

better for this city and I agree with

them and I will stand with them on that.

That's it for me.

Thank you, Councilwoman Ross. Councilman

Jones.

>> Yeah, thank you Council President Hill.

Um, yeah, my my no is still the same.

Um, I just wanted to reiterate and to

follow up with uh Councilwoman Ross and

Council President Hills had addressed

it. This is something that council did

not ask for. um you know uh but you know

I can get it on both sides that um

inflation all of these different things

that we're going we're dealing with um

as a city and as individuals when it

comes to pay. Um but again I just don't

think um that we're operating properly.

our process isn't isn't correct and um

that's why my no is that um again not to

you know shun my colleagues or anything

uh but I just don't think that this is

the right time um and I will be willing

to revisit this at a later date just not

today so again I'm sticking with my no

>> thank you Councilman Jones any other

questions comments or concerns related

to Bill 15 of 2025 Yes. Thank you,

President Hill.

>> Sure.

>> Thank you everyone

um for your comments and good evening.

The issue of salary adjustments for

elected officials has been revisited

on several occasions. Yet compensation

has remained unchanged for roughly two

decades.

With salary increases being planned in

the 2026 budget, my focus is

specifically on the proposed salaries of

the mayor and council. While I do not

support the large increases that are

being suggested, I believe a measured

adjustment is reasonable.

Given the passage of time and the

evolving responsibilities of city

leadership, I believe it is appropriate

to act on this initiative now while

maintaining a conservative approach.

With that said, I make a motion to amend

I don't know if this is I need to make a

motion, but amend the proposed budget

to establish the 2026 salary for the

mayor at $90,000

and council members at $22,250

each.

This proposal is designed to acknowledge

the mayor's role by setting compensation

at a level consistent with other third

class cities across Pennsylvania.

The proposed $90,000 salary places

Harrisburg's mayor in line with

comparable municipalities.

This proposal is also designed to

maintain council salaries responsibly at

$22,250.

Harrisburg's council members already

earn more than their counterparts in

other thirdclass cities where council

service is also part-time but full-time

responsibilities.

This adjustment

acknowledges that reality

while still recognizing the value of our

work, ensuring compensation remains fair

without moving into overly generous

increases.

This amendment represents a careful and

balanced step forward. It provides a

modest adjustment after two decades

without change while ensuring that

compensation remains appropriate given

Harrisburg's position as a capital city

relative to other thirdclass

municipalities.

Rather than pursuing larger increases,

this proposal offers a measured solution

that supports fairness.

acknowledges the responsibilities of

city leadership and enforces the city's

commitment to fiscal responsibility.

Thank you.

Is there a second? There is a motion

to amend on the table. Is there a

second?

Okay.

I will just add my discussion in. Um

>> Okay, that's fine.

>> Just kind of comments. Um this isn't a

new discussion as far as increasing

compensation for elected officials. Um

it's been talked about for several years

by several different elected officials.

Um, and I've I've heard from many

residents who feel like there should be

an increase to the salaries of elected

officials uh for the work that's being

done, but then also to ensure that

it is comparable and competitive to to

our surrounding regions. Um,

I think that it's important that as we

look at this, we have to separate people

from positions. Uh, not just the mayoral

position, but also council positions,

treasurers positions. uh and understand

that even if you're not the biggest fan

of some of the elected officials that

the residents have chosen to vote these

people in. So it's not like we're making

the choice of who takes the seat. Um so

I think that this is our opportunity to

increase the the salary for the elected

officials and so I will be supporting

it.

>> Great. Thank you. I just wanted there

any other potential amendments

on the floor? Okay. Seeing and hearing

none, I'd like to move to uh final

passage for bill 15 of 2025.

>> You you have to get through that whole

section of the thing. You I think you

know I think you know the intentions

now, but you have to get through

amendments first. So

>> Well, then I'll make my final comments

on bill 15 of 2025.

I have thought long and hard about bill

15 of 2025.

If I'm being honest, I am disappointed

that Mayor Williams was not present to

discuss the bill during the work session

on Tuesday, December 9th, 2025.

As I've shared previously, Harrisburg

City Council did not request this

legislation. The legislation was

requested by Mayor Williams. I

understand the neverending role of a

member of Harrisburg City Council.

However, we knew what we've signed up

for when we decided to run for public

office. I feel very strongly that

instead of a raise, the mayor, her

administration, and Harrisburg City

Council should focus their energy on the

number of issues present within our

city. There are many blighted properties

throughout the city of Harrisburg. dark

streets with no lights, a dying

downtown,

no real plan to spur economic

development, and a parking system that

will drive anyone away. These are just

some of the issues that should be

discussed and acted upon instead of a

raise. I would like to remind everyone

that the city treasurer's office

recently resumed regular business hours.

Finally, I can count the number of times

Mayor Williams called this council

incompetent

under my leadership and she wants a

raise. The answer is no.

Okay. So,

I move to resume discussion on bill 12

of 2025.

Mr. Trusdale, could you please read it

into the record again?

[clears throat]

>> Bill 12, 2025, an ordinance establishing

the budget for the municipal government

of the city of Harrisburg for the year

2026.

>> Okay, I will defer to Vice President

Green to lead discussion surrounding

amendments.

>> Thank you, President Hill. Um, so I will

read any amendments that were sent in

beforehand by council members. I will

move each of these amendments. Each of

these amendments then will need a second

before they can be voted on. Uh, to make

it clear, all these amendments are not

from me, but I will move every

amendment.

Amendment number one to increase the

city clerk's 2026 salary to match the

excuse me. I make a motion to amend the

2026 budget for the city council by

increasing the proposed budget and

salaries and wages for the position of

city clerk to $80,765.

Is there a second?

>> Second.

>> It's been moved and second. Does anyone

have any comments that they would like

to make regarding this?

>> I do. Um, I would like to note that I

did not craft this amendment. Um, if

we're looking at salary for the city

clerk and we want something comparable

to that of our former retired city

clerk, Mr. Parker, Mr. Parker was

bilingual, and I think that has to be

taken into consideration here. He was

able to uh translate our documents, our

meeting agendas um and our um

infographics for social media to ensure

that we are able

to

connect with residents of our city and

without

that translation I think there is a a

small disconnect there. So, that is why

I made the decision um to fund the the

city clerk's salary at an even $70,000.

>> Thank you, President Hill. Um I guess

when I was looking at the the budget in

general, um I felt like if the assistant

clerk had been moved into the clerk's

position, uh that that you must have

felt like he was qualified for the

position. And so that um the salary

should then match the previous position.

Um I will say that I wish it would have

been more communication that the the

clerk the assistant clerk was moved into

the clerk's position. Uh I I found that

out through a conversation with the new

clerk himself where I took the time to

congratulate him uh and his his new role

as well as uh Mr. Humphrey moving into

his new role. I mean, I just think as as

council members that that would have

been nice to have heard uh either from

you or from the clerk just like via

email or something because

>> Oh, I'm sorry. I thought it was clear

that that was going to be the transition

following Mr. Parker's retirement, but

that's fine. Okay. I apologize, but I I

don't I think that it is

I think the the fact that Mr. Parker was

able to translate our documents and was

a former Spanish teacher. He's

bilingual. I think that is what I

accounted for and I think it that it

should be accounted for in the current

city clerk salary.

>> Thank you. I do understand that. Um and

this isn't like a back and forth. I was

just finishing up what I was saying. Um,

but just to say that uh if that if we

were looking for someone bilingual, I

think that maybe we should look for a

different candidate that, no offense,

but someone that fit the bill, if that's

the entire bill we were looking for. Um,

and so that that was just kind of my

thought process when I was thinking

about the salaries, just kind of going

if someone moved into the new position,

um, I thought that the the salary would

stay the same. So, I'll open it up to

anyone else. Um, any other comments?

>> Yeah, for me, um, you know, since I've

been here, I I'll just say this. I

didn't take in consideration what

President Hill said about uh bilingual.

Um but Mr. Parker did a wonderful job

and I just thought by moving into that

space, it would naturally go into that

and I can understand uh council

president's concerns. But uh you know

for for me as far as I've been here um

Mr. Trudale has done a wonderful job um

for us as a body not just myself but

just for us as a body and

>> [snorts]

>> um I just want to give you my support

man. So you know that's where I am.

Oh, I have something else. Um,

>> no, no, it's fine.

We are still looking for someone uh who

is bilingual

um to fill that gap. I would also like

to note Mr. Parker is a city resident. I

think that needs to be noted too.

I just had I just wanted to say I

supported the raise due to the fact I

did not take in account of the bilingual

piece and I agree we do need that here

down at at city council for our

documents um so we can stay connected

with um our residents who do not have

English as a first language. Um but I do

take in consideration the parts that our

current uh city clerk plays in the roles

of technology um information and um

making sure we're up to date in those

pieces. I think he brings a wealth of

knowledge in those areas um and is

always um very diligent in our making

our flyers communications. I think a lot

of things that I'm unable to do he can

do. So I was taking that into

consideration. So, I just was putting my

um two cents in there for that part. And

>> I'll just I'll just kind of say I was

looking at it from the perspective of

comparable to the colleagues. Um also,

there wasn't a line item for translation

in the budget. So, I didn't realize that

city council was deducting

that like translation from a salary. Um

but also um the

you know in the time that Mr. Trusel has

been a cler uh has moved up to this

role, he has never failed to send the

bill up to the mayor's office on time

and that is incredibly incredibly

important. Um more so than translation.

Translation is something we could

contract out. It's something we could um

you know we have people in the comm's

department who can help with

translation. Uh so you know uh I think

as as far as a legislative body we need

people to send things up on time. Um

and that's like my reasoning.

>> Thank you. Uh President Hill and then

Councilwoman Davis.

>> Thank you. I just wanted to clarify that

we are not uh able to utilize anyone in

the communications department to

translate anything for city council. So,

I just wanted to note that per the

mayor's direction.

>> Councilwoman Davis.

>> Thank you, Vice President Green. Um yes,

I was just looking at this from the

perspective of a um a gradual growth

process. If the $78,413

plus a 3% annual raise was Mr. Parker's

uh salary and Mr. Trudale is just

getting promoted. I think that um

somewhere in the middle that he should

be because Mr. Parker was here for many

years and he had to work up to this. So

just from that perspective, but

otherwise Mr. Trudale has been a great

city clerk and I can't take anything

away from him for that. So,

>> any other comments or discussion?

Seeing none, Mr. Trudale, if you

wouldn't mind uh calling the vote.

>> Miss Daniels,

>> yes.

>> Miss Green.

>> Miss Davis.

>> Oh, this this vote sheet's wrong. Miss

Davis,

>> no.

>> Miss Green,

>> yes.

>> Mr. Jones,

>> yay.

>> Miss Rolls,

>> yes.

>> Mr. Rodriguez,

>> yes.

>> Miss Hill,

>> no.

>> Amendment one passes by vote of 5 to2.

>> Thank you. Amendment number two. I make

a motion to amend the 2026 proposed

budget for the Department of Building

and Housing by eliminating the gender

general fund funding for the proposed

2026 budget under salaries and wages for

the position of interimm director for

building and housing and development.

>> So move.

>> That was the second. Thank you.

>> Uh

does anyone have any discussion?

>> Yes, I do. I offer this amendment.

I would like to note the number of times

that we invited the interim director

of building and housing, Miss Gloria

Martin Roberts, to attend council

meetings. So, please bear with me.

December 9th, 2025,

uh the work session that was held, she

was present to discuss bill 14 of 2025,

the LER extension.

December 8th, 2025, that was the budget

hearing. Uh she attended

September 10th, 2025, the policy work

session related to the non-ARPA funding.

Uh she did attend

July 29th, 2025, that was the special

legislative session um to discuss the

2025 annual action plan. Um she

confirmed her attendance

July 1st, 2025 annual action plan

invite. Interim director Martin Roberts

noted inability to attend due to prior

engagement citing a vacation that was

scheduled from June 1st through July

7th.

I think it should have read July 1st

through July 7th.

January 7th, 2025

work session invitation. Um, this was

related to the ARPA funding.

Mr. Sowski responded saying that interim

director Martin Roberts will not be

attending. He cited that she provided a

detailed written report for quarter 3 of

2024.

And Mr. Sokowski offered to respond to

any questions in writing if sent over

and needing more specific responses.

December 12th, 2024. That was a budget

hearing. She confirmed her attendance.

December 9th, 2024, that was a work

session. Bill 9 of 2024, the LERA

extension. She confirmed her attendance.

October 1st, 2024,

a work session invitation was extended

regarding the status updates on ARPA

programs.

Um,

Miss Willingham

emailed noting that Miss Gloria Martin

Roberts was not well at that time and

she would not be in attendance. Um, she

did confirm her attendance prior on

September 27th.

September 17th, 2024, work session

regarding ARPA fund updates. She cited

prior arrangements.

September 10th, 2024, a legislative

session related to resolution 47 of

2024,

she confirmed her attendance. And then

September 3rd, 2024, work session

relating to resolution, the same

resolution 47 of 2024, she cited having

a previous commitment and she couldn't

attend. July 30th, 2024 was a special

legislative session. uh discussing the

annual action plan. She confirmed her

attendance. July 2nd of 2024 was a work

session. She was invited to discuss

resolution 41 of 2025 which or 24 which

was the 2024 annual action plan. She

confirmed her attendance. And then July

4th or excuse me, June 4th, 2024, a work

session related to the Harrisburg

Housing Authority Board of Directors

consideration. She confirmed her

attendance. Then um I

offered this amendment because

there's still nothing happening

um with the general fund portion of her

salary related to uh community and

economic development. So I say all this

to say I shared her attendance and we've

extended invitations time and time again

over the past two years now. and

sometimes she comes, sometimes she

doesn't. And I just think it's a it's a

disservice to our residents. Um, this

information that's shared is critical. I

still haven't received a response for

the LERA information that I asked for

every single year. And the home funding,

um, it's just what are did we meet our

benchmarks? Simple question. Still

haven't received a response because Mr.

Trudale didn't uh share a date that it

was needed. I think it's just

unfortunate. I really wish that the

position was opened up so that other um

talented and qualified residents could

apply. So that's why I offered this

amendment. Thank you.

>> Thank you. Anyone else?

>> I did have something to say. Um, I

wanted to speak because I do um agree

with this amendment, but I wanted to say

first it's not a personal reason. I

think um at our last meeting that was

brought up uh that there are personal

tensions um between council and um uh

Miss Gloria Martin Roberts. And I want

to say my decision on this has nothing

is nothing personal. It's nothing

personal against her. For me, it's the

process and what's right here in our

government. There's a process for

someone to become a director. They do

start as entrram acting um for a certain

amount of days and then they come down

for a vote. I think it's been over 300

and some days, but I'm probably wrong. I

think it's been even more than that.

Yeah, that it's been more than a year

that she's been in this position and we

have no communication if if she will be

coming down for a vote. Is she going to

be the director? And I think that um we

need to follow the processes. They they

are what keep us accountable. Um so I

think that it's unfair for her to be in

this position when there have not been

correct processes followed. So I agree

that the portion of the money that comes

from our budget should be taken from her

and I do understand that she still gets

federal um portions of her money, but I

do think we we need to follow the

correct processes when we have

directors. So, I do support this

amendment for those reasons. Nothing

personal.

>> Thank you, Councilman Jones.

>> Yes. Uh thank you, Council uh Vice

President Green and Councilwoman Ross

for your sentiments. Um I too made this

amendment and my reason being again is

the process isn't fair. And there was a

statement made that this is personal. It

is personal for me. This is personal

that our residents get what they

deserve. You know, when you're in a

position of of leadership, you have to

be held accountable. What does

accountability look like? You know, we

have accountability. When we call out

these things, we get thrashed and

whether it's the media or social media,

people will come after you. But I I just

want to stand on the side of

righteousness. Um again, the process is

flawed. And for me, I think it's a it's

a disrespect to council when um people

have sat in this chair before. You know,

you you know what this process is.

You're going to have to make tough

decisions. There's going to be nos,

there's going to be yays, there's going

to be nays, and they're not always going

to fall on the right side of what people

feel they should. But I think in this

instance, for us to be completely

ignored in my opinion, um this is why I

also uh made this amendment. So those

those are my sentiments.

>> Councilman Rodriguez.

>> Thank you, Madame Vice President. Um

Madame President, I just wanted to get

your idea of why specifically u moving

them to the municipal host fee. Just for

my just

>> it's not we can't

>> Oh,

>> so it's just right now it's just the

funding uh the portion of the funding in

the general fun.

>> Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

Any other comments or questions

regarding amendment two?

Seeing none, Mr. Trudeau, could you call

the vote?

>> Miss Daniels.

Miss Daniels.

>> Yes.

>> Yes.

>> Miss Davis.

>> Yeah, she knows.

>> Yes, she knows.

>> She's here. She was just unmuting her

mic.

>> Is it my turn?

>> Miss Davis? No,

>> Miss Green.

>> No,

>> Mr. Jones.

>> Yay.

>> Miss Rolls.

>> Yes,

>> Mr. Rodriguez.

>> Uh, no.

>> Miss Hill.

>> Yes.

>> Amendment two passes by vote of four to

three.

>> Thank you very much. Amendment number

three.

>> Right here.

I make a motion to the amend to to amend

the 2026 proposed budget for the

business administrator's office by

eliminating the funding for the proposed

2026 budget under the salaries and wages

for the position of business

administrator.

>> You have a second.

>> Thank you. Is there any discussion?

>> Yeah, I guess I'll start here too. Um um

I I also,

you know, helped make this amendment um

again for the purpose of our process. Um

the business administrator is definitely

a vital role in city government.

However, I've seen other governments or

municipalities work without it. And just

to the mere fact that um there was a

vote um I do give Mr. Sowski. Um, kudos

for at least coming in front of us and

having that respect to to be voted yay

or nay. And um, and for that, you know,

I just have to have respect in that

regard. But again, um, there was a vote

and it wasn't being followed. And so I

just think this is a time again, I know

people, we're in a time where everyone

wants to be uh, politically correct. U,

we want to pick a side of who we're with

or who we're not with. you know, I'm

with the people of the city of

Harrisburg, and I think that um until we

have that respect for our citizens, our

residents here, um I'm just going to be

a continual voice that speaks in a

regard that those phone calls that I get

from my residents, uh the emails that I

get from the residents that um like what

is going on with the city of Harrisburg?

What's happening? What's going on? And

to the best of my ability, I tried to

speak to it um and and be courageable

about it and not worry about the

repercussions or who's going to not like

or you know I was put here for a reason

and I'm going to hold to that in that

regard of keep to keep the people's

voices heard and respected. So um that's

why I made my adjustments for this

amendment.

>> Thank you. Any other comments regarding

this?

Seeing none, Mr. Trudo, could you call

the vote?

>> Miss Daniels,

>> yes.

>> Miss Davis,

>> no.

>> Miss Green,

>> no.

>> Mr. Jones,

>> yay.

>> Miss Rolls,

>> yes.

>> Mr. Rodriguez,

>> no.

>> Miss Hill,

>> yes.

Amendment three passes by vote of 4 to

three.

Amendment number four. I make a motion

to amend the 2026 proposed budget for

the department of building and housing

by eliminating the funding for the

proposed 2026 budget under salaries and

wages for the position of project

director for business development and

learn administrator.

Second.

>> It's been moved and second. Is there

anyone interested in discussion?

>> Councilman Jones.

>> Uh yeah. I just think um again, you

know, we we've we've summoned not

summoned, I hate to use that word. Um I

didn't make this amendment, but I'm

going to support it. Um because I think

that, you know, um as I go back in time

and I just keep looking at these um

discussions that we're having, the same

conversations are being held. And I hate

for someone to pee on me and tell me

it's raining. Not saying that this is

the case here, but I just think that um

in this space, we're not really getting

what I think we could with uh out of

this department. And I'm not knowing if

this person's hands being tied behind

her back because of other leadership,

but I just don't think um at this time

we can continue down this path with with

with no results.

>> Thank you, President Hill.

>> Thank you. Um I'll just note that we've

we've been having the same conversation

for four years now. Um, and personally,

I've been looking and waiting for a

clear economic development plan to move

this city forward. So, I support the

amendment.

>> Thank you very much, Councilwoman Ross.

>> Um, I just wanted to add that I just

this position is so important. Our our

downtown, our economic development is

not where it needs to be. And we've been

asking for a plan for

since I've been on council and probably

before that and there just hasn't been

one and I'm just very displeased with

that and so are the residents of

Harrisburg. So that's why I do support

this amendment.

>> Councilman Jones.

>> Yeah. Just and just to be clear on um

for for these type of uh amendments,

this doesn't mean we don't want these

individuals in the city of Harrisburg. I

just think they could do better in a

different department. This one is just

not working for me.

Um, I'll just make my my little comments

on this one. Uh, I will agree that the

position has not been

yielding the results that the residents

of Harrisburg deserve. Um, but I don't

think it's the position. I think I don't

know if it's what's being asked of the

position. I don't know if the person is

being stretched into too many different

ways. Uh, I think this is a very

important position. Um, we talk about

development. We talk about wanting more

economic development and as of right now

um according to the administration this

is the only road doing that job. Um my

question is what other job is being done

because we're not seeing that job being

done. So I kind of am on the fence about

this. Um I think the role is very much

needed. I think it needs to be a better

job and perhaps that means a different

person for the job. So that's my

comments. Uh President Hill.

>> Thank you. I just like to note that

we've had successful uh business

development and learner administrators

even during the pandemic. The former

uh business development learner

administrator um held online uh training

certificate programs with Google hosted

um regular um co-working meetings for

startups. So I think I don't know if

it's the person I don't know what what

the disconnect is, but we've seen this

role perform successfully. So I don't

maybe there's not a need to reinvent the

wheel, but it's been done before.

>> Councilwoman Davis.

>> Yes. Thank you, Vice President Hill.

Um I just wanted to mention that um

if the disconnect is with the person

again as my uh colleague Mr. Jones,

Councilman Jones mentioned it could go

to another position and it's okay that

you know someone may not be suitable for

a specific job. You know they may be

suitable for another position.

Thank you.

Thank you. Um, just my final comment.

I've made my decision. Um, [laughter]

um, I will say that I'm going to vote

not to support this because I think the

role is needed. Uh, but I do think that

we need to find someone more suitable

for the position. But I think the role

is needed. As noted by President Hill,

this role has performed successfully in

the past. So I can't say defunding the

role gets us the results we want because

that defunds the entire position.

>> So madam vice president would it be

appropriate to amend the amendment

keeping the allocations in under the

contingency of maybe an open

>> we do not we do not hire or fire. That

is the role of the administration. Um we

can have discussions with the

administration but we do not make that

call. So um we control the power of the

purse and so we fund we defund we um we

can do that but we cannot we cannot

choose who stays in in any any role.

>> Well I didn't mean choose at no regard

but maybe work in collaboration to

ensure we're going back into a hiring

phase but um I totally understand. It's

just I hear the general common synopsis

that the role is you know intricate for

the city but may just not be the

individual currently. So, I'd hate to

wipe it away and not be able to fill it,

but I do understand council's take on

that. Thank you.

>> And I would hope that we could have a

discussion with the administration as

far as um

finding a better suited person for that

role and maybe finding a better position

for the other person, but I cannot

guarantee that. Uh it looks like leak

has something.

>> I just want to make sure everyone

understands what you're doing. You're

reorganizing the government. You're so

there will be no director of economic

development there will be no business

administrator portions of the code that

dictate that and if you do this there'll

be no so it's not that there will be a

position it's not that there'll be a

position to fill when you do do it this

way so I'm just make want to make clear

that's that's what it will be so um then

there will I'm not quite sure where it

goes from then because they have to

start pulling apart the code for example

with the business administrator what do

you do because they have statutory

duties

>> follow the process

>> may I ask a question So you mentioned, I

guess this was last week, that the

previous Oh, that the previous

administration operated how long without

a business director?

>> They did, but they had it budgeted. So

I'm saying you you you're by eliminating

the position by defunding it. You know,

you you are you are basically

eliminating the position, it's going to

be a zero position in the budget. So

they searched for for a business

administrator. Um, but frankly, I don't

know why anyone's going to apply to my

office or anyone's going to apply to any

other office.

>> So,

>> the city of Harrisburg when the council

defunds positions of existing employees.

>> So, I mean, that is one of the realities

of of what decisions you are making.

>> I think this is short of taking

ourselves to court because there's

there's law and I asked you about this

several time that's on the books. The

mayor has the the right to appoint long

as council approves. He was voted down

yet he's still here.

>> I believe I believe it's the longest

legal opinion I've ever written was

related to this issue four years ago.

>> So you you're saying what we what what

we should do and I asked you but I think

this is this would this would make the

process something something has to

happen because um we didn't approve this

gentleman.

>> I understand

>> we have we something has to happen. If I

give if I I didn't win um in the

election do I still take the seat? I sir

I got I'm just I'm just trying to make

clear what you know what what the

rearrangement does and what happens.

>> So how do we do this without removing

the position

>> defunding the position?

>> I mean isn't the BA slightly different

because it is a statutory position.

I think maybe the other ones are are

being totally removed, but the BA will

always exist because it's part of our

>> but they cannot run a search for dis for

a position that has no funds, right? I

mean, this is this is the issue. So,

you're going to have to come back and

the mayor's going to have to come back

and you're guys going to have to figure

something out together. I mean, that's

simply the reality of it.

>> But we've been asking

>> we have and I think the reality too is

certain jobs aren't being done. Our city

is in a certain disarray because certain

people have hold certain roles and

certain jobs that are so important

they're not being done. And after time

and time of asking you get nothing.

And what in in reality if you don't do

your job

you you get let go. I I hear you. There

there is where I tell you the difference

between executive function legislative

function. You have the power of the

purse. That is absolutely right. But I

want to be real clear there. There

wouldn't be a search to be done for a

position that has no funds in it. The

other side is I don't know why anyone

would apply to work for the city of

Harrisburg if your position is defunded.

>> Why would you apply for any job here?

>> Any job.

>> Your job.

>> What do you re what do you gave us? You

really gave us no. Now we have a great

legal opinion because we're in this

situation. When we ask about this

illegal opinion of what could we do?

This is short of us taking ourselves to

court, which will really look crazy

because we made a decision here at

council and it was ignored.

>> I believe a legal opinion was provided

uh that stated that they are no longer

and they are no longer in an acting

position but now in an interim position

which isn't a position that is legally

defined in the code. And so, uh, it's

been used in the past

>> for for years. And and unfortunately,

it's where it is. It just is where it

is. I I I'm just telling you where, at

least from my my seat, what it what it

looks like. It's hard enough to attract

people as it is. I don't think this

makes it easier. Um, and I go to court

all the time, so I'm not that unus to

it. The, uh, other things is you can

amend the code otherwise. You can add

other you can add other carrots and

sticks, but that's, you know, that you

can take a legislative action to do

that. that when you ask what else you

do.

>> Yeah, that's what I was getting back to.

So,

>> carrots and sticks, that's that's you

know, you have provisions already that

restrict the what the controller can do.

So,

>> Councilwoman Davis,

>> thank you, Vice President Green. I just

don't see how defunding the position is

going to help us. Um, I think that by

inter having the interim directors

there, it gives the administration the

opportunity to look for

uh more qualified.

>> These positions were never opened up.

>> Yes,

>> they were never opened up when they had

ample time to do

>> positions were not opened again. The

>> what is this? The interim building and

housing director that was never open.

So, we were never able to see if there

were other residents, members of the

public that were even interested in the

role. This this amendment right now

though, I understand the need, but

again, we've seen this role done

successfully and this just is not a

success for me.

And just piggybacking off of the general

conversation, not so much this role, um,

but kind of more into the like interm

roles, um, I suppose the the other

option for the administration would be

to fire and hire someone every 120 days.

So essentially, um, they have to come

before us every 120 days, I believe

statute says. Uh and so the mayor has

the right to or the ability, the duty,

um and the privilege to appoint someone

to fill the role for 120 days. They can

then reappoint them again without them

having to come back come to council

because they have to come once they hit

that 120day mark. Am I correct?

>> Yeah. The the only case law out there

was a governor reappointing someone the

Senate had rejected and then

reappointing them again. and the court

said that was the governor's right to do

and it was the legislator's right to

reject them and that's the only guidance

we have from the courts on this question

in Pennsylvania.

>> Okay. And has that been done as far as

these uh positions?

>> They that's when they converted to the

interim was basically to so to to not

keep going through that process. That's

that's how this came about.

>> Well, when exactly did they convert to

the interim? I think that happened under

well I think it was done in both the

patent flu administration. It was done I

believe in the Reed administration and I

believe it was done in the uh Thompson

administration. I believe Mayor Reid

took one director and and made them the

deputy without a director over them

because he could not come to an

agreement with city council. I mean

there's no this is this is really

government at its most fundamental with

the two branches of government is trying

to find a way to govern and operate and

trying to find a way to get the branches

to agree. Um you know the uh uh and my

point is really just simply about

I have no concern that people vote the

way they vote. I just want to make sure

it's understood that you can't search

for a position that has no funds. Right.

the the mayor doesn't have the

>> we understand that. But again,

I I can't speak for my colleagues. I'm

only speaking for me. And it's it's very

frustrating when we get to a point like

this now, everybody's paying attention

to what we have to say.

>> And that's wrong. And I find it

disrespectful that when we we we we

again, if we pass anything here tonight,

it has to be followed.

If not, what are we here for? What are

we doing? The disrespect that comes out

of that position

for for this body

is is disrespectful and it's

disrespectful for our people. We knew it

when we came in. I I I said it

personally to Mr. Sowski that I would

not be supporting him just based off the

resume and then the attitude didn't

help. No one comes and talks to us until

this point now until it's time to we're

we're making a decision and I think that

this is the right decision whether it

passes or not. I just think it's the

right decision until we can correct our

process.

>> I will say I feel like I feel like the

disconnect here is communication, right?

Um it seems like there there isn't much

communication happening on an atlarge

basis between the administration and

council. Um and so it kind of comes down

to okay well I'll call your bluff right

you don't talk to me I'll I'll take your

funds right um because the communication

is at a standstill. The unfortunate part

is that

it's the city that suffers, right, by by

the mayor, not talking to council, by

council, not talking to the mayor. I'm

not pointing fingers in either

direction. I'm simply saying that no

matter what the case, if this is how the

communication continues in the future,

the city's not going to move forward.

Um, just because

the residents talk to us, we make it

clear what the residents are telling us.

We make it clear what we're expecting to

get from the administration as far as

communication, as far as reports, um, as

far as community economic development

plans. And it seems like we're not

getting those things. And uh, to my

colleagues points and and then there's

no communication after we don't get

them. Uh, and so the only time we seem

to get the communication is when it's

time for a budget hearing and then, you

know, we kind of get a little bit of a

conversation here and there. Um, so I

think that's kind of where where the the

biggest issues coming in at is just it

seems like we're not talking. So, um,

President Hill,

>> I don't know if I agree with that. So

the quarterly reports

um were implemented as a mechanism

for us to learn what goes on in these

departments and bureaus on a quarterly

basis so that when we arrived at this

point today to vote on a budget nothing

was a surprise. we would have known

maybe months ago in some cases uh what

the needs were and how the departments

and bureaus were operating through their

budgets throughout the year. So I don't

know if it's a matter of communication

and maybe it's one-sided because as I

mentioned during amendment one when the

suggestion was made for city council to

utilize a staffer or staffers in the

communications department to translate

our documents into Spanish. many of

these departments aren't even allowed to

communicate with us. So, that's the

reality. So, it's a one-sided

communication issue. I don't think

anybody up here on this day is um

doesn't want to communicate or maybe

want to foster better relationships with

the directors

um or anyone in the departments or

bureaus under their purview. But when

they're being told they can't

communicate with us, that's crazy.

>> I think that gets exactly to my point of

the issue seems to be communication.

Lack of it.

>> Yeah. But it's not tick for tack. If you

don't speak to me, I'm going to take

your I that's not my narrative. So I

don't want that to be my narrative. You

don't talk to me, so I'm going to take

your funding. But I do think this is an

opportunity for us as a body

to let not only the administration

but our public know that we are willing

to stand to correct what's happening in

our city. If we don't do this and it's

just my opinion if we don't take these

hard stances and we have friends there's

people that I communicate with. This is

not a personal thing in that regard.

It's personal in the city as a whole.

But if we don't take a stance now and

change this direction of the history of

city council and administrations, we

have an opportunity to do that. And I

think um until we can correct

in-house stuff, and I hate to do these

things publicly because it just doesn't

it's not a good look for us. However,

we're not being heard on the other side.

I agree with President Hill. Some people

get phone calls from administration and

others are just completely ignored. And

I agree that we've been told that they

are not allowed to communicate with us.

Now, what does that do for our

constituent services that is bad for our

residents? So, I'm just going to stand

in this space. Whatever the

repercussions to this is, um, Lamont's

willing to stand in it.

>> Councilwoman Davis and then President

Hill. Thank you, President Vice

President Green.

Um, I think that the

uh concern for me is that a lot of the

back and forth is personal.

It is personal. Um, I've heard from

uh members of the administration

and I've sat here, I haven't missed a

meeting since I've been here. um they

feel threatened.

You know, I've watched pretty much I've

watched I've been here watching the back

and forth this total disrespect in

communication.

So, I think that this is good that we're

having this conversation, but

um and it's also an opportunity

to move forward. the administration and

council, we have to communicate. Our

residents deserve

communication without the personal

attacks that I've witnessed. I've

witnessed

>> or the personal relationships if that's

allow everyone to finish speaking.

>> President Hill,

>> thank you. I just wanted to note for the

meeting record that the mayor does not

communicate with me. It's a one-way

phone call. When I call her back, if she

does in fact call, she's only called me

twice this year, it goes straight to

voicemail. So, do you know what that

means? That means I'm blocked on her

phone. So, I wanted I wanted to note

that she only communicates with three

people on council. So, it's never And I

wanted to address Councilwoman Davis's

point. Nothing is personal in this seat.

It is about the residents of the city of

Harrisburg.

That's who we have to answer to. So

nothing is personal. It's business.

I wanted to reiterate with the

communication. Communication is very

important and there is no communication

right now. But I want to I have always

said I will say again one nothing up

here is personal. Everything I am voting

on is because I see our city. We all see

our city and there are at least two

positions on here, business

administrator and Lerta that have a lot

to do with our city and the business

administrator told interim acting told

me last week he had no opinion on

anything that wasn't his business. So

that's concerning. Lerta has so much to

do that that whole position has so much

to do with our city and our economic

development. As I said, we have asked

time and time again, when you don't get

your job done, this is what ends up

happening. It's not personal, it's

business. Also, I've the mayor has

called me probably maybe three times

this year. I cannot call her. I'm

blocked. I cannot send her any text

messages. I am blocked. So, the

communication is only when she wants it.

I am here and I am willing to work with

her whenever. I will take any meeting,

any phone call. had one meeting with her

which was on the $250,000

for senior citizen programming. That was

the only meeting I had with her and

nothing happened after that. So once

again, nothing I'm doing up here is

personal. It is business for our city,

for our residents, and I want nothing

more but to communicate with the

administration so we don't come to or

have to have or make decisions like

this. Thank you.

Any other Councilman Rodriguez,

>> thank you. Um, I too have had my phone

blocked for nearly a year, but all of my

communication goes through my department

directors and they do their best to

coordinate different meetings, whether

it's with the business administrator or

Madame Mayor herself, but I don't let

you know something just like a block

phone or I get it. You know, sometimes

people hate you one day, they love you

the next day, but I still want to try my

best and attempt to reach out in good

hopes to communicate and get things

done. So even if I was referenced as one

of those people reached out, I have to

elaborate and many of you seen me try to

make phone calls and go to voicemail. So

you know um I just I just I'm willing to

try and I care and not saying no one on

this day doesn't and not saying that the

administration doesn't. I just think

it's going to take a lot more to

overcome a lot of the hurdles and

obstacles that we're facing. But I

appreciate everyone's time. Thank you.

>> All right. Any questions regarding

amendment four, which is a motion to

eliminate the funding in the proposed

2026 budget under salaries and wages for

the position of project director for

business development and alert

administrator.

Seeing none, Mr. Trudell, would you call

the vote?

>> Miss Daniels,

>> yes.

Miss Davis.

>> Okay.

>> No.

>> Miss Green.

>> No.

>> Mr. Jones?

>> Yes.

>> Miss Rolls?

>> Yes.

>> Mr. Rodriguez?

>> Yes.

>> Miss Hill?

>> Yes.

Amendment four passes by vote of five to

two.

Excuse me, Vice President Green, just u

just for me just a a simple point of

clarification.