Harrisburg City Council - Legislative Session 09/23/25

We are a little delayed in getting

started.

Um so just to for everyone's reference,

we are going to have a quick workshop

facilitated by the law bureau. Then we

will begin our work session to discuss

resolution 63 in 2025.

And then following we will host our

legislative session. So please bear with

us this evening. Um I'd like to turn the

floor over to city solicitor Neil Grover

uh to begin the presentation on the city

bid process.

>> Uh thank you madam president, members of

council. Um this presentation comes to

you in the context of the fact that um

we are now the bids are now out for the

broad street market project. Uh the

council rarely does uh have a chance to

look at how public bidding works. So

it's really to give an overview of it

which informs then the coming resolution

for the appropriation related to that.

So we thought on the front end having a

presentation about how the bidding just

works generally you know may be helpful

to the public and the council you know

to to have a more robust discussion when

about about the money requested. Um I

want to just go over a brief uh

sort of context setting uh discussion

about um the broad street market. Um as

as as everyone knows it's been part of

the fabric of Harrisburg for 150 years

or more now. Um it has been important to

the city uh and a few decades ago the

city found it so important that they

actually took ownership of it. Some

people believed we always owned it. We

did not always own it. We acquired it in

the second half of the 20th century when

it was in u desperate straits. Uh the um

the city did that because it thought it

should remain and thrive. Um there's no

question that uh the market has has it

ups and downs over the many decades, but

it's also endured over the many decades.

It's like the theater. No matter how

many times it seems like it's on its

last legs, it comes back again. Um uh

but everyone knows in July 2023 is a

fire that sort of called all that

history into question and decisions had

to be made. Um the uh that disaster sort

of made a determination of whether that

what I might call the marker of history

in Harrisburg should continue be

replaced um or or or simply forgotten.

It seems the universal answer from the

public from officials and everyone else

is that it needs to continue. Um and

then the question is how um to do that

um we undertook after dealing with

insurance companies and I think it was

somewhere between 13 and 16 adjusters at

the beginning uh because everyone had a

different company uh an analysis of the

market. It was on the national register

places which frankly people had to go

find because it was put on there so long

ago. No one here working was dealing

with that question. Um, so a lot of

people got involved in the process of

figuring how to restore it. As you know,

you'd already voted on contracts related

to the construction manager and to the

architect engineer design for it, which

had done on the RFP process. Um, and

then the process to put together this uh

set of requirements to restore a

national structure on the historical

register got underway. Um tonight you're

going to be asked to consider uh discuss

a resolution which is going to go to how

to fund what will be the construction

contracts that go with this. Um and so

to do that we it seems important to uh

go through and see uh what exactly the

public bidding process was that would

get us to these types of numbers. um

what those numbers mean at this stage of

the process. Um and just what has to be

done for the restoration to get to the

other side. Um as you know, some funds

have already been expended from initial

insurance money and other money. Um

some funds that will be expended will be

reimburseable by fire insurance, but

some certainly will not be. Um, no one

can tell you with any certainty what the

ultimate reimbursement will be because

the insurance company under the policy

will go through the submissions line by

line to see if it's an eligible expense

or not. Um, just like you or I if we

have a house fire, um, we are insured as

to the condition it was to be replaced

at the time of the fire. If it was a

50-year-old building without a porch,

you don't get to put in a deck and have

insurance pay for it. Um, so part of

this is plainly covered. Part of this is

plainly not covered. Um, and and so so

some monies will be coming back from

insurance, but some plainly will not.

The um

design that has come through seems to

have uh been wellreceived by the state

museum commission and their um

representatives about its historical

accuracy in terms of what they're trying

to do. Um it's been presented and seems

to provide a better uh long-term look at

some infrastructures improvements in the

area. Um, and most importantly, it will

continue the long-term use of the market

for decades to come. Um, with with that

sort of framework, I want to just go

through the public bidding process uh

and talk about um how it has to happen

in Harrisburg because we didn't write

the rules. The rules were provided to us

by the state. Um,

there are steps to public bidding which

we've put up uh onto a PowerPoint here.

Um the reasons we do these under the law

is because the third class city code

says we must which is what we're

governed and the state procurement code

says we must. Um and it tells us when

and how we have to bid. Um we do a bid

uh which is simply a set of documents we

put together about what construction we

are looking for that internally and

externally working together has to have

specifications and a scope. That is what

we brought in the architects, engineers

and construction manager to assist uh

facilities with is to work through that

scope. Um they did so um this particular

project was divided into 11 separate bid

packages. Some of them are um mandatory

by state law. We have to divide bids for

HVAC, plumbing, electric and other for

into separate packages. Some of then are

are best practices where you divide them

into se to separate things like we're

doing demolition separate. We're doing

it we need an inspection service that's

separate. Um there's a number of items

of the bids that went out. Uh 10 of the

11 categories received bids. Uh what is

called um uh site prep did not and that

had to gone back out to bid under the

procurement process right now. and

that's ongoing and that second round of

bidding for that is I think closing out

this week. Um once the bids go out, uh

there's a chance for uh meetings with

the um potential biders and that

happened out at the Broad Street Market

in this instance, but it happens in all

of those cases where we're doing a

construction bid. A professionals agents

get to come out and look at the project,

ask questions about the project. We then

have because it's going to be a public

bid, those questions have to be put in a

way that everyone can hear the question

and everyone can get the answer. We

can't give out those answers

individually. Um over time what the city

has done uh and has done uh I think and

been pleased with is we've utilized

what's called pen bid which is a service

by which we put bids up for all kinds of

things including construction projects.

uh you have to get an account to be a

bidder, but what you log on there uh and

um you can get your questions put in

once you're logged on for a potential

contract and you can and then that

everyone can see the question that you

know ABC construction put in. Everyone

can see the response that came back from

here the city of Harrisburg. Um

sometimes the the questions are easily

answered, sometimes they are not. Um it

just depends on the specifics of the

contract. Um after the bids are out,

they're evaluated. Um the uh a

tabulation sheet is created which shows

each of the bids that came in for each

of the categories. That is reviewed and

signed by at least three people. Uh the

procurement officer, the mayor, uh and I

frankly I think it's the part department

director is the third one on this

particular one. Um when they do that um

that becomes a public document. These

are the tabulations of the bids that

that came in. Um within those bids

though there are sub numbers

subcontractors are captured in there um

to make up that total bid. And then

there in a in a bid there can be

variations that is there can be uh

add-ons that are laid out in the bid

that you can add on a category the city

might need or we can have it a deduct

which means something we might take away

depending on the overall cost of the

project. And the biders are informed of

that on the front end and can put

pricing in for each of those. What a

tabulation sheet is supposed to show you

is the top number that's going to be

there. You know, what is the most that

particular uh contractor is going to be

paid based on their bid. Um we then uh

while there's contract documents to go

out with the bid very often after as

bids are awarded some negotiation has to

go on particularly for some terms of

conditions for specific types of vendors

because of their own insurance things.

We require the insurance we require the

bonding. Um but those things are what uh

are sort of the nuts and bolts of

getting the thing to the point where

it's actually a final contract. Um there

is what goes out the door a uh notice of

award to each contractor you know which

uh which tells them that they are the

successful bidder. Others can challenge

that if they wish once that's out the

door they can see why they weren't

successful. Um the uh

often times there are such questions in

in smaller contracts. We get them even

down from anything from fireworks to uh

a vehicle replacement where people are

putting in and questioning, you know,

why why what was their bid? Why was that

the one that was uh the most successful

and I um in that process there is um you

have a question? Sure.

>> Yeah. Um, I remember when we were going

through this particular um, contract

with Alexander and you know, we had to

vote a couple times to to get this

right. And I think one of the things

that we did ask, if I'm correct, as

council is um, can we have something in

place like that when someone isn't the

lowest responsible bidder and they can

know why? Because if you if it's like a

a test, if you don't check a box of why

they didn't get it, they probably can

make the same mistake the next time. Did

we even look at something like that?

>> So others can speak to that, but as my

understand that happens all the time is

that people inquire why wasn't I the the

responsible bidder? And some don't

follow the instructions. Like you'll

you'll say that you know you have to

provide uh this much material, you got

to provide it and be done in this period

of time. If they can't do those things,

they're not the lowest responsible

bidder, even if they're lower. Some are

based on experience, frankly, not this

type of contract, but others because

someone will put in a bid so low. We

know from having done it year in and

year out,

>> possible way they can make it.

>> There's there's no way that they can.

>> So, you're saying there is a document in

place?

>> I don't know if it's a document. I don't

know what I would call that. I mean, I

there's a process in place, but very

often it's up to you as the bidder to

inquire. Why didn't And you can get

answers to that question.

>> Yeah. I was just saying I think that we

had talked about that as council to see

if we because of what we had to go

through with JM Alexander

still works and a few other ones.

Yeah, I can I can inquire if there's a

document used.

>> A bid.

>> Okay.

>> So, I can inquire if there's a document

used, but it's very hard to be universal

in that because the type of bids we do,

right? We most of our bids aren't

construction. Most of our bids are much

smaller items. That's where most of our

pen bid activity is on much smaller

items. So I'm there's like what what you

would do for road construction, what you

would do for buildings, what you do for

a car being built or fire radios are all

very different from each other.

>> Gotcha. Don't let me hold you up.

>> Okay. Oh, I got all night. We can just

hang out and chat, sir. Uh

um in the meeting there's usually but

not always a mandatory meeting for the

for the potential biders where they have

to come. It's up to the entity whether

they will make the meeting mandatory or

not. Um at times the city does not make

the meeting mandatory for the simple

reason that sometimes that will exclude

um vendors who are not as sophisticated

as as you know a large vendor um because

they haven't been in the process before

and the city tries not to instantly

eliminate you by failing a mandatory

step. Um and it lets them actually

affiliate sometimes with a with another

contractor who who who gets it. Um you

know that's sort of a project by project

bid by bid package. But um some we do

mandate it and it just depends on the

type of nature. This one my

understanding is we did not mandate it.

We had public information meetings for

biders uh and walkthroughs out at the

Broad Street Market at least twice uh

prior to the bids going out the door. Uh

and um that was attended by city

officials, the construction managers,

the architects. Uh and I yeah, I

understand they were fairly well

attended. Um so uh and but that's a

standard process by which you have such

a meeting and and and talk about the

project. Um there is a scoring committee

appointed for any bid package. Uh

typically it's three, sometimes it's

two. Um the you know that depends on the

on the nature of the bid and how big a

issue it is. Um but biddings are then

scored but but basically the question is

did they meet the check boxes that you

put in on the public bidding document.

Um and there are times no one can meet

all of the checks boxes and that's not

unusual because government is a hard

thing to bid on and then some judgment

calls have to be made. Um, you know, the

city adds some additional conditions

that aren't always there. Um, maybe if

you're with the Commonwealth or have

different conditions than maybe if

you're bidding with the Commonwealth and

they don't have certain documents

readily available at the time of the bid

and then we work to make sure they have

them. They have to have their bonds in

place. They have to have their uh

insuranceances in place. They have to

prove that insurance is in place. If

they had other other obligations, we

required we have to have those

documents. Sometimes we have the

responsible contractor certificates that

come from the city ordinance that they

have to get in place. Um, and then

there's work done administratively to go

back and forth between city staff and

the biders to make sure those things uh

materialize in the course of the project

before a contract can be signed. Um,

we then review the contracts. We look

for compliance. We the law bureau does

we see if there are gaps in what was

supposed to be there. inquire on why.

Um, sometimes there's a very rational

reason. There's a gap there that that is

beyond everyone's control. Um, but the

lessons from the past, the big hard

lessons are the fundamentals. Everybody

has to be bonded. They have to have the

right bonds and they have to have the

right insurance. If you remember when

the incinerator issue happened, there

was a lack of bonding. That was the

ultimate failure of the project because

there was no one to cover it when it

failed. Um and that is what bonding does

to the public. That protects the public

money on the project and that is why

it's there. Um

once the law bureau signs off for the

contract, it circulates then to the

mandatory signers uh on the city side

under city under the optional uh third

city charter law and under the city

charter that is the mayor and the

controller. No contract can be signed or

used without the mayor the controller

signing them. So the law bureau is

required under the third class city code

to review and repair contracts. The

mayor and the controller signatures are

both mandatory for a contract to be

valid. Um

uh

in the course of this there are

thresholds

um which are a little different for

third class cities than they are for

some other municipalities in

Pennsylvania. But um we are under

there's a state threshold for what must

be bid with some some categories that

are exceptions. And now because of um

consumer price index increases that

number for this year is $23,800.

A contract over that amount that is

subject to bidding must be bid, but it's

not an exception. Um other

municipalities, you'll see three

categories of numbers there have a

different requirement for that middle

than third class cities. they have to

take more steps than third class cities.

Um we have some um

we have some room for uh judgment on

those because third class cities are so

varied in their size. There's 53 of them

and some have a few thousand people and

some have 160,000 people. And so the the

legislature left us with some discretion

uh to figure out what we require. Um,

what we require is three quotes, three

bids on those middle numbers that are

above $3,500.

>> So, uh, excuse me, solicitor Grover,

just for my own edification. So, any

agreement, u between about 0 to $3,500.

AOU would suffice in executing.

>> It's not neou. Sometimes it's just a

purchase order or or a similar document,

>> nothing formal of an agreement.

>> Sometimes it's just an order document,

but and but it depends what it's for,

right? If it's something that has a

warranty connected to it, if it's

something that has an ongoing commitment

that's a multi-year obligation on the

city, then it may require the full

signature of everyone. Okay.

>> Um, it can't get through the procurement

process,

>> in the contract process. It also has a

series of entity people that have to

sign off to get through procurement. So,

it's not that one person can get it

through and then it gets paid.

>> It still has to go through a process.

>> It goes through a process. It goes

through finance. It goes through

business administrator office. goes to

procurement office just to make sure

that that is all there. Uh the the

controllers's office then looks for

supporting what they call pre- audit

documents to show that it's

appropriately to be paid. So there are a

lot of checks and balances to make sure

money just doesn't go out the door

>> for each step

>> for each step for any government. So,

um, the last page of this document is

really just some links to some of the

many, many, many, um, areas where, uh,

there's information on public bidding.

The first one is just to city

information. Um, that is our written

procurement policy, which is is fairly

robust. It's been developed over a lot

of years. The number, the threshold that

got to $3,500 used to not be $3,500.

used to be a whole lot less um coming

out of receiverhip and over the years

that has developed where there's a

little more discretion for those things

that have to go out for the multiple

quotes just so that business can be done

for things people need to pick up and

use. Um that's sort of an academic to

what we're talking about tonight with

the broad street market. uh that is uh

what guides decisions in offices

throughout the city on what they have to

do to go procure a particular contract

or purchase. Um the second one is of of

interest for people that want to look at

it. It's the pen bid one. It actually

what serves us and many many many other

municipalities as how bidding works. You

can see our bids. You can see bids from

all over the state. You can see how they

handle it. It it has been a fairly

sophisticated system that's provided a

lot of service for uh governments using

it. It it eases the burden frankly on

local governments by having to do what

they have to used to do by themselves.

So it's a very it's been a it's very

robust and we we frankly use it all the

time now. Um the uh to be a vendor in

the city you have to um in our contract

you have to get a business license with

the city. It's one of our requirements

in the ordinance. You can't bid on a

contract. get the bid and not have a

city license to be here. Um, that's a

particularity thing to the city of

Harrisburg. I wouldn't say everyone has

that, but that's one of our

requirements. That's an easy one for

them, right? It's a $50 year license, I

believe. So, if they're going to be

successful bidder, they get the license.

I just had a quick question because I

know this was an issue when it came to

the broad street market were about the

rubrics that are placed on pin bid and

them being um the same as uh what's on

pin bid and what we were grading. So who

creates those rubrics that then go on

pin bid? I I'm guessing it's the city

but I just want to get clarification. I

I think others can speak to it through

procurement, but it is the city, the

facilities director or the other

department director trying to figure out

what rubric you would need is different

for what project you're

>> of course they should change with each

project.

>> And so sometimes there's a consultant

who's already on the project and is

advising this is what you should be

looking for.

>> Okay. Um sometimes there isn't and

you're just you're working with sort of

a normal purchase thing you know and um

you know it depends on the complexity of

it but it's the procurement office and

the and the department and the business

office work together to come up what the

standards going to be for a particular

project.

>> Okay. And pin bid is just um kind of

like a hub where we post the

information. Is there also a compartment

of Pinbid that like looks at what we're

posting and gives thoughts and ideas? Do

they help with templates or are they

just the hub where we upload everything?

>> So, it's actually also a resource of

information and and some for us but

really for potential government bidders,

right? That that it tries to boil down

because we're all working under

generally the same rules. You've got to

do these things. Okay.

>> To be here,

>> right? And so there's a lot of

information on it and a lot of

assistance in terms of input like

guidance and how to put your thing

together. They won't tell you how to

break it down.

>> Um you have to know your business to

break down your bid how it has to be.

You have to follow the municipality's

instructions. Right?

>> If the municipality says, you know,

we're going to be um um bidding the

chassis and the body of this vehicle

separately, then you better be putting

in

>> them separately, you know. Um so you and

not everyone does. It's one of those

things people just some sort of

automatically do it. Some people some

companies are always just putting bids

in and they don't necessarily comply.

>> Oh, I'm sure. Right.

>> I mean, that happens,

>> right? And we have all types of places.

I

>> I don't think people can say enough

about the work for our procurement

officer, Hillary Green, who just manages

this very complicated system again and

again and again with every office. um

you know the uh it is the it is the

departments the bureau's responsibility

to make sure that what they're putting

for pen bid what they put out as

proposed contracts have an appropriation

to go with it

>> right um that's the controller is the

backs stop checking that that happens

before contracts are signed but that is

really where this goes from here tonight

here there there is a request to do um a

series of contracts and fund them um

there is obviously not enough money by

close right now appropriated to do it.

And as a rule, you do not sign a

contract that is not funded. It's not

fair to the taxpayer. It's not fair to

the vendor. And you probably should not

expect a vendor to sign a contract that

says, "I've got a third of the funding

in, but sign it for the whole thing, and

we'll promise we'll give you the money

later." It doesn't work that way. Um, so

you have to have the funding up front

for the contract. You can sometimes

break it into multiple years and

multiple phases. And you've seen that

happen before, too. Um, and uh, but

government contracting is fairly strict

in many ways. And, uh, a contract that

takes less than 12 months for the city

or for the Commonwealth, it has to be

funded. There's no question. Contracts

that exceed 12 months are subject to

annual procurement. So, and that is

what, you know, a bidder has to know.

Um, I'm unaware of us taking away the

funding for an existing contract ever,

but that's been the law, as far as I

know, for for for decades in

Pennsylvania. That's so that one

legislative body isn't automatically

bound by the last legislative body. Um,

they can make decisions based on the

reality on the ground when they're when

they're when they're making votes on

appropriations. Um, here, this money, it

is anticipated, should be able to cover

it. I think one of the realities you

have to look at which everyone has to

look at. In government construction, the

costs tend to be more than originally

thought. That is simply the reality in

government construction. It's very much

was that way with the public safety

building. It'll it'll be a bit that way

as you'll see uh or as you saw with uh

the FMB field construction and by

waiting for for the for the building

next door the cost of construction is

25% more from when the first bids came

in that were unfunded or the original.

So when you wait the numbers go up. Um,

the last thing that I think is worth

mentioning is that because of the

policy that we had at the time for fire

insurance, it covered every single

structure that we had as one policy, one

thing. Only some of our structures are

historical. Um, the timeline for

completion for the policy was two years

from the date of the fire to be

completed construction. it didn't

account for the historical nature of a

building and what you have to do. So,

under the policy, we were to be

completed by July of 2025. Um, but they

also deal with the reality of what

they've insured. So, we are on uh 90-day

extensions to keep it going. We we have

monthly meetings with them. They're

coming back out, I think it's October,

the week of October 20th to examine the

building again to see where we are in

the process. I am certain that's not

their last visit. Um that um basically

they want to make sure their insurance

money is getting used for what it's

supposed to be used for. Um if we stop

that 90-day extensions go away, you

know, and then there is no more

coverage. Um that's the simple reality

of the contract that we entered into

long long ago. Um, and you know that

that's one of the ones we're dealing

with is uh we're in we're in a position

where we're just sort of at where we're

at with the monies that's available to

us. Uh, business office is still looking

for third-party funding from grants,

but you can't wait for that money to

enter into contracts, which is why the

procurement is there. If it if it

arrives, it arrives. But right now, you

know, there are funds that are being

asked to be moved to make sure these

contracts can move forward. And that's

what is going to be discussed uh later

this meeting uh and then before a vote

happens after this meeting next week or

the week after.

I am happy to answer any other

questions.

>> Are there any other questions, council

members? We have Councilwoman

Daniels

participating virtually and Vice

President Green. Are there any questions

regarding the presentation?

Okay.

And I will just note the last document

up there is a separate document. It is

just two pages out of what is a very

good resource for anyone in

Pennsylvania. It's the Pennsylvania

legislator's municipal desk book. It

breaks down issues that you encounter

all the time, sub subsection by

subsection. These two pages simply are a

simple table on what municipal

procurement is. Almost anything you

encounter as a council member, as a

citizen, you can find that subject in

this material which is free online. Um,

but it really does boil down the basics

of some misable obligations. Uh and so

we just provided that uh for you and

we're happy to give a link to that as

well.

>> Um Solicitor Grover, um just your

professional opinion as the city

solicitor being as though the Alexander

projects were more of the ones that kind

of caused the uproar in the city. Do you

feel in your professional opinion we

followed your presentation as acquiring

them to a tea um on both instances both

FMB and Broad Street?

>> So and I should make this distinction

right and Those

are not construction contracts, okay?

>> Those are professional services

contracts which don't come under

procurement codes. They're specifically

excluded from procurement codes. So we

do as a practice and it's not a

requirement to do RFPs for professional

contracts. That is, I think, one of the

actual true benefits that came out of

act 47 receiverhip is forcing the city

to be better stewards of this

information and not just having

contracts come down that no one vetted

anywhere um for professional services.

So these were vetted and you know the

Alexander from at least my observation

has been our advocate in these meetings

with the contractors on both of these so

far. They've been our advocate in the

meeting with the commonwealth. They've

been advocate in our meeting with the

architect and they're the ones who know

that time is money and it's costing us

if this doesn't move forward.

I'm a lawyer so I'm used to rough and

tumble. Um not everyone likes rough and

tumble. I like rough and tumble. Um so

so you can might be gruff about what

you're saying but if you know what

you're talking about I think that's the

service the city wants. We want people

that know what they're talking about and

not just sort of frankly blowing smoke

up our ass. Right. And so that's that's

my experience with them.

>> Councilwoman Ross, you had another

question.

>> I did. Um when it comes to um securing

bids for construction companies that do

have to have the RFP is what you're

saying, right?

>> The RFP is different. It's actual bid.

RFP is a request for service, right?

Partial.

>> And this is actually a bid, a public

bid.

>> Okay. So for those I know one of the

issues that we had during the process

with the um broad street market was um

who was grading the rubric the team that

was put together are the teams diverse I

know when I looked up procurement the

team can be kind of anyone you want it

wasn't um saying it had to be always

city employees it can be residents it

just had a broader spectrum of

individuals could be part of the team so

I know that was an issue for for some

council members up here was broadening

up who's looking at the rubrics and I

was just wondering do you know if that's

something that um future-wise is is

going to be happening or are we still

sticking to the same four people for

every single um RFP that we do and bid

that comes through construction wise or

thereafter. So I think the easiest way

to answer that is when we get to the

portion of the meeting on the resolution

for these things you can talk about who

has been the people involved who who

have scored them who put them together

you know literally individuals and but I

I have to answer it with the lawyer's

hat at the end of the day right

>> in the third class city vote in the

optional there are two very powerful

sentences

>> one is

>> the legislative power of the city is

vested in the council the other is the

executive power is vested in the mayor

it is the executive ive authority that

decides who and how those things are

scored. There's not another legal

requirement other than the state

conflict of interest laws that says

whoever's scoring it cannot have an

interest in any way, shape or form or

any promise related to those or

contracts. And if they were, that's not

just an ethical violation, that's a

criminal violation.

>> So that is where the Commonwealth has

put the the the one line. So, as long as

you don't fall into that connection,

>> then it's the it's a it's a mayor's

judgment in our model of who is best to

serve on this particular and that's the

legal requirement. That's different than

whatever the policy decisions are. But,

but you know, that is a mayor's

authority just like it is the council's

authority to run the power of the purse

and decide if money can and cannot be

appropriated. That's exclusively yours.

It is the mayor's authority to decide

how to execute things when there is not

otherwise the law prescribing it.

>> Okay, I understand. Leadership is

important.

>> Yes.

>> Thank you.

>> I have a question.

>> Sure.

>> Um, can biders provide alternate

solutions for add-ons or takeaways? And

what are like some of the common reasons

for add-ons and takeaways?

>> So, so the add-on draet determined on

the front end by the package that goes

out the door. There is some back and

forth that can go on if for example uh

the biders in the questioning part said

in our industry X Y and Z we would use

this material or this type of thing now

because of whatever reason because China

doesn't send us the whatever the answer

is and that kind of back and forth can

happen. Um but but they don't get to

sort of make the call. Again the

information has to be available to every

bidder and go back and forth. That's why

it's the questions are put up online or

they're done in a meeting with the other

biders. Um but you can ask uh in the

course of um the process of approving

the uh allocation request what exactly

was the back and forth. Um there is a a

word I learned in this which is called

descoping

which is in my I'm not sure this is even

correct but in my mind it's the

equivalent of debriefing.

um you know after the bids come in and

the biders put them in there are

meetings to discuss the scope of the bid

and how the city viewed it and how the

bidder viewed it to make sure before we

go down that track we all are talking

about the same thing. Um, and that's

just a sort of a practical piece. I

think a valuable piece, frankly, that

that did Alexander did bring to this

process is to sit down and do a

descoping with every single bidder that

was there to talk about and make sure

everyone understood what they bid on and

the city understood what the biders

read. And sometimes language is a

problem. What we think it means, that's

not what a bidder thinks it means.

>> Thank you.

>> Thank you, council members. Are there

any final questions regarding the

bid process?

Okay, seeing and hearing none, the time

is 6:20 p.m. I'd like to conclude the

workshop. Thank you to the law bureau

and solicitor Grover and everyone for

their assistance with the presentation

this evening. Uh, the time is 6:20 p.m.

I'd like to officially call our work

session to order.

>> Mr. Trudale, could you please call the

role?

>> Miss Daniels.

>> Miss Davis,

>> present.

>> Miss Green.

Okay. Mr. Jones

>> here.

>> Miss Rose

>> here.

>> Mr. Rodriguez

>> present.

>> Miss Hill

>> present. Thank you. Uh I would defer to

Vice President Green. Are you able to

hear us?

We can't hear you.

Um hold on.

>> Well, her mic's not unmuting, so she's

not she's not trying to talk.

>> She did unmute, but we couldn't hear

you.

>> I talk.

>> Okay, now we can hear you. us loud. We

heard you.

>> All right.

>> Okay. I will defer our sole committee

business for this work session. It lies

with the budget and finance committee.

So, I will defer to Vice President Green

uh to lead discussion.

>> Thank you, President Hill. Uh Mr. Trud,

could you read resolution 63 of 2025

into the record, please?

Resolution

63, 2025, a resolution approving the

sixth proposed 2025 budget reallocation

related to the rebuild of the Broad

Street Market brick building.

>> Thank you. And who do we have from the

city that's going to present tonight?

Big enough.

>> Uh, yes. Hello, Vice President Green.

Uh, Brian McCutchen, accounting manager

is present.

>> Good evening, Mr. McCutchen. if you

wouldn't mind giving us an overview of

the resolution. Um, and then we can go

for questions after that.

>> Okay. Uh, certainly. Thank you. Good

evening, uh, council members. Thank you,

President Hill as well. Um, thank you

Jared for helping me out with, uh, the

display up on the screen is exhibit 8 of

the six proposed budget reallocation for

2025,

all about Broad Street Market. Um and I

think what to to start off with this uh

I tried to make it as simple and

straightforward as possible. There have

been uh several meetings, a lot of

analysis,

a lot of thought-provoking

um strategies on how to develop. I mean

the expense side is is easier of course

but but the top line uh of of of this

schedule and this is all within the

general fund within the facilities and

uh special projects

uh budget unit. Uh the rest of the lines

on down from that below the expense

account there are all revenue line items

uh representing sources resources of the

city.

So, let me turn your attention to column

H, which is the the uh requested

proposed budget amendment. Uh, and it's

the 14.4 million to increase expense.

And then the lines that that flow below

that represent an equivalent an

equivalent amount in total. That's why

it just nets to zero at the very bottom.

Um so the way this was developed uh

includes an analysis of what the city

has paid during 2024 and what it

projects to pay for 2025

including what's still sitting out there

uh in incumbrances which is mainly uh

the the the construction project manager

Alexander and and the architectural firm

uh Murphy and Ditton Hafer.

Um we in um in the prior year there were

also construction type payments of

mostly of a demolition nature related to

various other companies or contractors

that did such work. So when you tally or

total all that up

uh I I get we get to uh a subtotal of

3.3 million as a starting point. Then

what we did through the the facility uh

the city's facilities department and the

director there and his staff uh a total

overall project cost is being projected

on this. It's in the $23.1

million ballpark and again this is that

that is an estimate uh but we've looked

at it quite extensively. So the

difference between that 23.1

and what we're projecting to pay or or

on on a cumulative basis what's already

been paid 3.3 gets us down to the 19.693

million. Now up on the screen it says

19.193 the difference of 500,000.

Uh you may recall already in the city's

original budget for 2025, $500,000 has

been appropriated within the host fee

fund. So that that's where that

difference comes into play. But of

course, the general fund is picking up

um the the remaining material amount.

Um

so that that explains how we get to with

this proposed amendment would push that

budget up to what we're believing we the

city needs uh on on an estimated basis.

Um now in looking at the the revenue

lines below the insurance reimbursement

for loss um there is also uh an estimate

on what the what the city anticipates

receiving overall and we that that

figure exceeds uh 11.7

million and again that's not a hard

number to be solid or rely upon. It's an

estimate.

You when we we calculate further to back

off what the city's already received,

there's also a $1 million uh sorry, what

we've already received is uh 4.93

million. There's also a set aside amount

of $1 million that's meant for the

temporary structure uh and and the

associated cost.

That gets us down to 5.787 million in

the city's original budget this year.

The the original appropriation was 4.5.

So the difference is what you're seeing

up on the screen to increase uh the

budget the revenue side by the 1.28287

million.

Moving down to the third line, which is

uh and again, these are all

transfer in, meaning that we're we're

we're proposing transfers from other

city funds to help uh bridge the gap.

The $1 million there for uh the CDBG,

community development block grant

through the city's economic development,

building, and housing department. As as

you know, they work with the HUD funds

that they manage. So, there's a

commitment out there already for $1

million, but it's specific only to the

architectural design fees,

which you can see we've already

transferred in some of those funds uh

currently uh through the end of August.

So, that's building up to an available

amount of $1 million.

The next line down, a capital projects

fund. Um there's two components to that

which includes hotel tax and street cut

uh uh uh fees that are complete

historically and continue to be

accommodated in the capital projects

fund as as those receipts come in.

The city draws upon those during the

year the the hotel tax amount in in the

normal course of things. So, the

breakdown on this would be to draw an

additional

$450,000 of available hotel tax and

$375,000

of street cut fee revenue that that

makes up the the 825.

Next line down, another transfer in.

This is from one of the special funds,

the blight remediation fund. Uh it's it

it was an estimated pick of 100,000.

Not severely depleting that fund, but it

it's not a an immaterial amount for that

fund. Right now, the cash position of

that fund uh has a balance of

approximately $460,000.

So the ask here is to utilize that fund

again uh for this particular project.

Before I move down to the grant funds,

can uh Vice President Green, can I I I

stop right there for any comments or

questions?

>> Yes. If anyone has any comments or

questions, I'll start to my what will be

my far left with Councilman Jones.

>> Thank you. Uh Vice President Green.

Um yes. Um I I just just need some

clarification. So if we're looking at

the proposed budget amendment lines

where the 14 million the 14 144 14.4

and those numbers underneath of there

those transfer ends equal up to that 144

right

>> correct. All right. So, now I'll go over

to the available

budget after approved amendment where

you get the 19.

So, um those numbers where are they

transferring in from? I'm just trying to

see where these funds are being

um pulled. It just cuz if you if you

look at the line you just did

uh where it's the the blight and

remediation fund, you got 1 million

oh yeah 100,000

in the available budget in the proposed.

Are we adding another 100,000 to get to

the 200 in the propo to the budget

that's after

>> right that that's correct in in the

final column it's just a mathematical

walk through starting with if if we stay

with that line um in from the blight

fund the original uh the budget of

100,000

there's been no activity yet this year

that's why you're seeing a zero so then

that just mathematically adds over to

what is available ailable still. And

then the proposed amendment in column H

is asking to to bump that up by 100,000.

And then the ending column I is the

ending result. You know, the proposed

the proposed amount applied to the

available budget column of column G.

That that's the sum right there. In

other words, um

um when you when you add mathematically

add G and H, you'll get column I.

>> Okay. And so I I see again and I'm you

know just looking at the words um

words are important and just so I have

clarity um when you say you're

estimating a carryover of 5.5

and that's also adding to the number the

total number if approved after after the

budget's approved um to the 19 correct

>> you did you I'm sorry did did you Did

you jump? Did you jump down to the

estimated cash? Okay.

>> I'm sorry. I'm looking at this whole

thing. I'm sorry. I know you stopped at

a certain line, but I apologize. So,

what I'm what I'm basically asking when

when when you have a estimated cost or

or what projections are these

projections or what we the city may

bring in or what we're looking to spend

on this project and and and I'm saying

if if that's the case, are these real

numbers? Can we balloon or could we fall

below? I know if we fall below would be

a good thing, but what if we go over

>> um

the the the insurance line, you know, is

that that has potential to change

because again is as as solicitor Grover

mentioned, that's all based on

submitting information to their forensic

audit review and they go they go piece

by piece and decide whether or not okay,

yeah, this is eligible for

reimbursement.

This was just this overall look was

built on on what the potential is based

on what facilities already has on hand

for their um for for their knowledge for

their uh understanding of of what the

potential insurance would be. The rest

of the lines down the transfers are all

solid because that's saying that if if

if this would be approved, they would

actually happen in those amounts. They

would not change.

>> I get that part.

>> Okay. Mhm.

>> All right.

>> Um, yeah. So, that that that was my my

question about this. Um, because if

again, it would be great if we fall

below the numbers. I mean, we can hold

on to a couple dollars. But my other

question is I heard Solicitor Grover

say, um,

somebody left their phone. Is that your

phone?

>> Did not.

Uh um somebody must have left it. Anywh

who uh you I heard you say that um

>> Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me. C do

you mind silencing your phone?

Thank you.

>> Really

>> proceed.

>> I thought somebody left their phone. Um,

I heard you say that uh

you don't know

when we will be reimbursed and if they

didn't pay out all of the insurance

money. So if this because it's supposed

to cover the whole

>> So so I think you're mixing two

different concepts, right? This is to

fund the opening contracts. It doesn't

take into account what gets reimbured.

It's to make sure there's enough money

to fund the contract. The hope is to

maximize the reimbursement

and we're actually paying someone to

help us maximize the reimbursement, but

that will come over time piece by piece.

So that money's on top of this money.

The money you're seeing for example

insurance, that's what's on hand.

>> Right.

>> Right. So you're again you're

anticipating I heard Mr. McCutchen say

almost another seven

>> and we would hope more. So it we

actually it's down frankly legal

definitions, right? It's down to what is

code improvement and what is

restoration, right? And those are those

are for both sides a very real dispute,

right, that they can be in. You know, we

we think this repointing is is is not

code. This is this is restoration. We

think this pillars are required for the

building to be standing. They think,

well, that wasn't required by till some

law in 1937, right? Those are real

disputes with an insurance company. And

I I don't mean a bad dispute, but but

you have to work within the language of

the policy to get your coverage. So, you

know, we're going to I think the

business office is going to work very

hard with our our um outside entity to

get and maximize that return. We really

won't know though until we're in the

weeds on that. So, we're actually

spending the money on the particular

bills. So, this number simply funds it.

Now, one reality is this is a projection

of what the funding will going to be

>> and that's what I was asking,

>> right? The could the contracts end up

being more? Yes, that could end up being

more particularly

>> anticipated to be

>> and and I'll give you the what I

consider the most telling example. You

know, government's imperfect like every

people are imperfect. When we did the

third street multimmoal project in the

deep

weeds of engineering design, there was a

like the wrong measure of concrete on

the one portion and it said cubic inches

and it was supposed to be cubic yards,

right? So suddenly the project was way

underpriced when it went out the door

and that was just in many many documents

in one page. No one caught one thing. So

you know could there be an increased

cost? Yeah. But that would come back to

council for an appropriation right. Um

and that would be you know that would be

a change order in a contract if it went

up if that thing happened. So you, you

know, you will certainly revisit some of

this information when it comes budget

time for the 2026 budget and have a

better sense of where we landed,

>> right?

>> But this gets those contracts signed.

>> Yeah. I was just um asking because uh

the numbers really weren't making sense,

but to due to some of the clarity that

was given, I can actually see, let's

just go to the CDBG fund where was

418,000,

right? Um that was an expense. So that

money was spent, right?

>> That that that's actually the the

revenue, you know, that that's

materialized so far. In other words,

>> you have an I'm apologizing in in the

available budget. So I can see that the

the subtraction from the proposed budget

where you see the one 1 million sitting

and then over in the available budget

after the approved amendment, you see

the five and I see that that number is

being deducted from that million. Is

that correct?

It's the let me back up to the the the

actual column which is column F which

includes see it includes everything

expenses and revenue but but these lines

are revenue. So that 418 tells us that

that's already been transferred as

revenue into the general fund.

>> I got you.

>> Okay. All right. I just needed to

because the numbers really weren't

>> how do you how we interpret

>> right

>> what what what they mean how they're

flowing on the schedule. Um I I I get

that.

>> You satisfy my concerns. No further

questions. Yeah.

>> Very good. Thank you.

>> Thank you, Councilman Rodriguez.

>> Thank you, Madam Chair. Um Mr.

McCutchen, I'm not sure if you'd be able

to answer this question. It's regarding

the project, but not so much as the

money. I know numbers kind of get thrown

at us on a casual basis. I'm more

interested to knowing after three years,

what has actually been done in

succession to the brick-andmortar

building? Besides the hiring of

Alexander,

right, and Alexander going with who they

would like to go with,

>> I drive my son to Hamilton or Cougar

Academy every morning to go to school

and I'm literally looking at a bone like

a boneyard, right? It's just great

bones, but nothing really done. I could

be speaking out of ignorance. I

understand there may be studies and a

lot of things that many residents at

home wouldn't quite understand, but just

on a really remedial base, what has

actually been done to the building in

three years?

>> Yes. And I think I'm not the the best

one, but I I and I I'll defer to uh you

know the director in facilities on that,

but but I think what's happening with

these bids that are materializing right

now is getting to what as far as far as

seeing anything visible, but if

>> Sorry, I see brother Baker back there.

>> We'll wait.

And Brian's just being modest on the

weekend

thing and he's out there doing mortar

work on the weekend by himself.

>> Listen, Mr. McCutchen, you were doing

amazing like answering and to the best

of your ability, but I do understand

there's certain components that you just

couldn't quite delegate out. So, it's

great that Mr. Baker's here. Director

Baker, it's great to see you. Do you

have a response? If you heard, I could

ask the question again if need be.

>> Um, let me take a swing at it. Good

evening, council. Um, so I guess in a

nutshell, uh, for the most part, we we

have lots of processes internally as the

city goes. Um whether it be uh vetting

contractors, which we're way down the

the road in in doing, or um as you said,

uh starting studies, uh speaking with

the historical museum board, um going

through the design phase, which that in

itself can take up to a year, uh for a

building like this because not only do

we have to start the design and we have

to get the buyin uh from the interested

parties, but then we also have to get

the approval uh from other individuals

to move forward in the direction we want

to um if we're trying to move forward

with certain materials uh that someone

deems as not historically accurate uh or

or not structurally significant or um

you know up to par of wherever they need

to be, we might need to go back to the

drawing board as far as the design phase

goes. Uh so a lot of the time that's

been taken so far to get where we are

has been put into design and uh just

thinking out each step that needs to

happen to keep all the governing bodies

uh happy with what we're doing and to

really uh make the construction process

happen the right way the first time, not

have to go back to the well to ask for

additional funds. And um that is

something that that our consultants they

really have been advising um diligently

uh to the city as far as uh not taking a

step you know one step forward two steps

back. We've we've kind of been planning

everything out very strategically and

unfortunately it has taken a long time

and I can tell you um my office has been

working every single day on the broad

street market.

>> No no and I respect it and it's a very

crafty answer. I highly appreciate it.

But let me just ask the question again.

What has been done in three years to the

brick andmortar historical building

known as the Broad Street Market?

>> So right now there's there's a lot of

administrative work. Um if you're

looking for actual physical but we have

a

>> Yes. like the actual repair of the

building. Cuz what I would like to get

to, what I'm landing the plane on is

would you attest that most of the

hiccups that we're incurring wouldn't be

a legislative administrative kind of

back and forth. It's due to the

processes how things can take a very

long time.

>> Yes. Yeah.

>> So, I just like to have that on the

record so we can just extinguish the

rumor that councils are hold up or the

mayors are hold up. I like it to be

known today, September 23rd of 2025,

that it's either party and its processes

and there's a lot that goes into it. So,

I just like to extinguish those

erroneous kind of rumors and just kind

of move forward in a positive light

being that we were given the information

you gave us this evening.

>> Yep. We have I mean, 1600page documents

that had to be created. We have uh plan

sets that are as thick as

>> and I respect that. And just for the

sake of time, when we were going through

that long, you know, hearing, we kind of

went away from it, then we approved it.

We were told that's all that's needed.

We just got to get Alexander in acting

and we can get this building rebuilt,

right? A lot of going on. And to this

day, my son still rides by like, "Dad,

would would they ever get that back? I

want to kind of go back to the old

building, you know? Um, a lot of our

local businesses depend on that. And I

just can't see the sustainability of

that tent um or how durable it'll last,

you know, or how long. We haven't really

gotten the study to that or how long we

would even have that. But I'm pretty

sure our local vendors, business owners

can't wait to get back into that

building. So, I'm confident in your

leadership and I look forward to any

kind of update you can give us. Thank

you, Director Baker.

>> I don't mean to chime in. I do have a

question that maybe you or Solicitor

Grover can answer. Um, bringing up the

white tent, um, right now the city's

paying at least $5,000 a month for that

to be there. In 2026, it'll be $6,500 a

month. So, how long do we anticipate?

>> So, the the ant

>> and what happens and what happens last

question and what happens to the white

tent once the brick building is

restored? I know we won't hopefully

won't be continuing to pay for that,

>> right? So is I can speak to the

logistical side of that. Um financial

side we we need to get uh probably

solicitor or Brian to do so. Uh but

logistically uh we have a estimated

18-month construction period that's

going to start uh very very soon. Um

that being said, if we look at I would

say at least 20 months roughly give or

take um for the use of that that uh tent

just because uh and this there's a

there's a lot of balls in the air. No,

not after a total in total. Um so at

minimum 18 months um I'd say if we had

to push it we'd looking at roughly 20.

But this is kind of a moving target

we're looking at for this tent right

now. Uh because it's it's going to be

there. It's going to be erected. It's

going to be in use. Um and then we're

going to need to decide once we've

completed the market, the actual brick

building market, and we start moving

vendors into that building and they

start, you know, utilizing those um

those spaces. Well, then we have planned

funding allowing we have planned to do a

complete remodel renovation to the stone

building. We've not really gone through

any of those details because we've been

inundated with all the details with the

brick building. um trying to get that

done as fast as possible. So once the

brick building starts the actual

construction process, then internally,

you know, our staff can start the

planning side for the remodeling and

we've already started the funding

opportunities, things like that for the

stone building. When we do that, we're

going to displace those vendors

temporarily. So, we need to decide what

the next best course of action is going

to be to displace those vendors, but

still allow them to continue serving the

public on a day-to-day basis while we do

the necessary uh renovations and

upgrades to the existing building. So,

I'd love to give you an exact date, but

as I said, it's kind of moving target.

We I'm sure we'll be back here in this

same spot discussing more details on new

plans and new options in the future.

>> And I appreciate that. So maybe you can

answer it because I'm just looking at

the financial side of what the city is

paying. And

>> so so the tent is a is a lease. The

heating system for the tent is a

separate lease and the land is a

separate lease. So and and that's just

the reality of what it is, right? And so

inside the tent, from my view, Dave

built a building inside the tent. Him

and his his crew came in and so that is

our material as far as I know. But the

tent has to go back and you know

>> right the land isn't ours. So

>> the land is not ours and so um and and

you know those are the realities. Um I

don't I would be frank when we did the

discussion on the original tent there

was not a discussion about continuing to

use it um for the stone building. It

doesn't mean such a discussion can't

happen. It just means it just wasn't

part it was the the emergency was the

original discussion about how long we

need it and uh um and then whether

that's the appropriate way to

financially handle it will be a

discussion for I think the mayor and the

council at that time. Does it make sense

to continue these leases? Is there

another option that make is economically

viable or is that the best economic

viable option at the time when you're

doing the stunt building?

>> Well, yeah. I I you know I'm again I'm

just looking at what we're spending and

I don't think that the public's aware of

that that that we're spending that

money. So I know in 24 it was pretty

much free. Then 25 beginning of 25 is

when the 5,000

>> the land lease.

>> Yeah. Then 26 is going to be 6,500. I

don't know if it is it going to go up

some more.

>> I I don't remember. I do not remember.

It does have an expiration date I

believe but don't don't know for

certain. has a renewal piece in it, but

I'd have to frankly go back and look at

that. It's a lot of contracts ago. Um,

but you know, but those are the kind of

you just have to deal with on the ground

as they come. You know, what are what

are what are our options? Um, obviously

the stone building's totally connected

to funding like like you don't start it

if there's no funding to get to the next

step. So, those are all all work that

happens in in the order that it happens

in. Um, you know, right now they I think

have a $300,000 grant to do some work

there. um that frankly won't do much for

an old historic building. It'll do some

things to help out that the

association's doing. Um um and then the

overall, as you know, needs a longer

term thought and plan for the long-term

future of the Broad Street Market and

its operation for the entire thing. And

and frankly, that's got probably a lot

of people in that discussion over time.

>> All right. Thank you. Yeah. I just

wanted to know when how long um we going

to um continue. And of course, we're

going to have to use it until the brick

building is completed, but I was just

worried about those those fees. So, um,

thank you for answering my questions.

Um, no further questions, Vice President

Green, and I apologize, Councilman Ross.

I mean, Councilman Rodriguez.

>> Thank you, Councilwoman RS. Any

questions?

>> Um, thank you. Uh, good evening,

everybody. Just for the sake of time and

and just to let Mr. McCutchen finished

the um what he was talking to us about

the reallocation. Um some of my

questions were already asked by

Councilman Rodriguez. I had the same

ones, but I was just wondering if um

maybe Dr. Baker if you would be able to

um send council any itemized

uh items on like what we have done to

the brick building so far, what the cost

was. Just for transparency for us, we

get a lot of residents asking us and

honestly usually when something leaves

our desk and goes to administration, not

to fault of anybody that's government,

we just don't know. Um, so if maybe just

anything you can give us that's

transparent wise, so when residents do

ask us, we're able to say, "Oh yeah,

this is what's being done. Here's what's

going to happen next." I think it just

helps us all. It just opens the city up

and lets residents know that um this is

what's happening. So, if you don't mind.

>> Yes. So, we have um hard costs for the

shoring of the building and all the the

site securing and all that that were

done by, you know, local business and

whatnot. So, we can show you the

individuals who did the work, how much

we paid for the work. Uh we can also

send you guys more of a high level

construction schedule so you can have

the estimated dates of when we're going

to start when we you know when we're

proposing and when we're hoping to

finish with all the different phases of

the project.

>> That would be great. That would be so

helpful. Thank you so much. And I think

also anything you're able to put up on

the website that's allowable lawwise. I

don't know if you can, but if not,

anything you can send us that we're

allowed to share would be nice. And the

only thing I think we really haven't

talked about that has happened is we're

there was some you know environmental

and similar related testing that was

required lead testing asbestous testing

and so those and they're testing the

bricks and and for so there are people

in there taking tests to help determine

what has to happen and what's safe

>> and those sort of just are small pieces

that keep moving

>> right but that need to be done to

>> that had to be done to get to this

point.

>> Yeah. No, thank you for mentioning that

too and that's what we don't know. So

sometimes when it looks like nothing's

happening, maybe something is. So I

think it just helps us, helps the

public, helps you. So anything you can

share, please. And

>> so I know time is of the essence

>> when you can email us. I don't want to

hold anybody up.

>> Well, just to to solicister Grover's

point, I completely forgot about that.

So, we've had staff out there, city

staff actually hand digging holes

throughout the entire foundation area,

you know, sporadically where we have

engineers pointing out and requesting um

just to to see the foundation depth, if

there is a foundation, what's under, do

we need to underpin the actual

foundation after we start removing

material? Um, we have engineers out

there. They've been out many times uh

taking selective brick sampling uh to

actually laboratory test the bricks to

see how hard they are, what they're made

of, what kind of mortars we can use. Um

one of our uh engineers, consultants,

even our architects, they specialize,

highly specialize in historical brick

restoration. It something I didn't even

know there was such a field of of

expertise in. And these people just I

mean they could talk all day long about

brick mortar. Um, and these are the

kinds of people we have in this project.

And you'd be amazed at the amount of

information that goes into every asset

of this project. And again, one of the

reasons why uh it's taken the time it

is. But again, we we want to make sure

we do this once and we do it right and

we don't come back in in five years with

foundational issues or, you know, step

cracking in bricks or you name it. You

know, we're making sure it's these are

these are not typical construction

walls. They're very very thin and

they're very very tall. Typically, you'd

have a triple wall, we have a double

wall. It's not near as thick as normal.

So, we have to come up with historically

acceptable ways to fortify and stabilize

these walls. So, you know, we have to

keep all the governing bodies happy and

keep the public safe at the same time.

So, there's again lots and lots of

engineering going into this project.

>> Thank you for that. Appreciate it. That

that's it for me. Uh, Vice President

Green.

>> Thank you, President Hill. Any

questions?

>> Yes, thank you. Um,

thank you for

sharing the movement of the funding. I

think I'm clear a little bit on some of

it. Um, but I the larger question is,

are we simply increasing the expected

revenue to match the actual cost? And if

so,

are those funds that we've

received? Because some of these funds

were not budgeted for, which we know

like CDBG fund was not budgeted for, the

state grants fund was not budgeted for,

the federal grants fund was not budgeted

for. Some of the others there's still a

little bit of money. Do you anticipate

exhausting these funds or

>> um I I don't uh but you're you're spot

on on

the the the column column

H which has the revenue sources. You're

you're you're correct. Those are not in

the current year's budget. They are they

are an existing new source to balance

the the increase in the expense.

>> Okay.

>> If that If does that help?

>> I think it helps a little bit. Yes.

Because simply because they weren't

budgeted for, so we had no clue like

what

>> they they were not in the original

appropriation, of course, and then they

haven't been uh tapped or or utilized in

all the reallocations that have been

done up to this point this year. Right.

>> Right. Right.

>> Um and then you mentioned the host fee

funds. $500,000 from the host fee.

>> Yes.

>> Was expended. Okay.

>> Yeah. Yeah. the host uh host fee

municipalities fund, right? The the

right the the the budget

>> uh the that contains that 500,000 is

from the original appropriation this

year.

Um and was that fund was just looked

upon as uh

before the budget was was presented, it

was it was proposed as uh utilizing that

fund to assist this particular project.

>> Okay. Thank you for clarifying. I don't

have any other questions.

>> Okay.

>> Thank you, Councilwoman Davis.

>> Thank you, Vice President Green. Um,

thank you, Mr. McCutch McCutchenson. Uh,

and thank Councilman Jones for asking

the questions in reference to the

numbers on this chart. I pretty much

understand

um what's going on here. Now, I just

have one question. the proposed budget

amendment. Where do those numbers come

from?

How are they how do we come up with the

proposed budget amendment?

>> The proposed numbers again the top

number is the the expense. So that's

that's based on that was our starting

point to figure out what is it going to

take to see this project through at its

full cost and

where based on that to figure out where

the budget needs to be and and the focal

point really is what's what's been

happening very recently and currently as

these 11 bids are coming in the the real

heavy costs for for construction. Uh

that's that's that's the main driver

behind such a a large proposed increase

in expense. The the rest of it on down

the line are just trying to come up with

a strategy for what available revenue

sources can go toward to offset

uh the 14.4

million in expense.

So it's it's based on reviewing funds

what what the funds have um what what

revenue potential is out there. I I

mentioned the insurance proceeds. That's

that that that of course has potential.

Um but but the main the main piece of it

is to try to produce uh an analysis of

our other funds like what what what are

their basically their cash positions are

right now and is it is it reasonable to

try to utilize some of those those

positions in in in different city funds.

For example, the grant funds, the

capital projects fund. You you can see

on this schedule there's there's various

funds identified that are beyond

uh beyond the general fund because it's

it's a transfer to the general fund but

it's coming from a different a different

fund if that helps you.

>> It helps somewhat but the exact amount I

mean the proposal is just a proposal.

It's just a proposed number. So is your

real question, how did anyone decide

that the number we need is $19 million

in change?

>> That's a good question.

>> Right. So that question is this is

working with Alexander, the architect,

the engineers and facilities working

with them to come up with their

knowledge of the industry where they

thought the bids would come in for each

of the 11 projects. Um that number

internally pre-existed the bids and they

were pretty close. I mean, that's the

reality. What's that?

>> They were they were incredibly close. I

mean, we're talking hundreds of

thousands less than perfectly accurate

so far. So,

>> right. So, so they had some bids, the

low bids were, you know, for for some

that were not responsible biders were

lower than their number when you put

them together. the high bids, the

highest bids were above that, but

frankly the where the where where the

lowest responsible biders want came in

very close to what they projected based

on their experience where they would be.

And that's so so that that is um and

frankly that was a hold your breath

thing until the bids came in, right?

They were saying, you know, we think

we're going to be in this ballpark and

they were very close. And again, that

comes down to the the pre-planning that

the city and Alexander uh have put into

this project and the amount of um

information that they've got out there

to the public and to the trades. So,

they not only, you know, we publicize.

Uh Hillary Green does tons of of

publicizing. Uh she uses Pen Bid for all

of her publications as well. Uh but

Alexander contacts

different organizations and groups and

says, "City of Harrisburg's putting this

out. This is what they're interested in.

Here's the different trade packages.

Here's whenever we're opening it opening

it up to the public. Come and bid on

it." Uh because a lot of these

contractors will say, you know, we

didn't know this bid was happening or

they're too busy and they they didn't

check. And there's a lot of different

venues and avenues they can use to bid

on projects. Uh, but whenever you have a

respected company out there that says,

"Here's a good one. It's historical.

It's it's known, be part of it." Uh, we

got great responses. We got lots of

people that responded. We've had

projects where we've gotten no responses

before and we've put out all kinds of

notices to the public. Uh, so this one,

we were really fortunate. We had one

trade that we didn't get a response on.

Every other package we got multiple

responses or or we got singular

responses, but we got responses. So that

also lends itself to allowing Alexander

to have a fairly accurate um estimate

number. Uh because if we only get one or

none, it's going to cost us more next

time we go out. Those contractors are

going to see nobody bid on it, you know,

so they're going to know they can go

higher than previously uh expected. So

it really comes down to the estimates

are sometimes amazingly accurate. I

mean, they can always be off. There's a

ton of factors. That's why they're

estimates. But we have so far we've

lucked out with the estimates. They've

been really spot-on.

>> Thank you. That was helpful. Thank you.

>> That's it for me, Vice President Green.

>> Thank you, Councilwoman Daniels. Any

questions?

No questions. Sorry about that.

>> No worries. Thank you. Um I have a

couple of questions but I'll I'll save

them for the end. Um so uh Mr.

McCutchen, you can continue with the

presentation.

>> Okay. Very good. Thank you, Vice

President Green. Um so the remaining

lines uh

the the the first two perta pertain to

the city's grant funds uh namely the

federal grants fund and the state grants

fund. Actually the state grants fund.

I'll talk about that one initially. So

that is uh the 1.663

million increase as as a re again as a

revenue source into the general fund. Um

the the the the most significant piece

of that is 1.3 million we're projecting

in available interest income uh within

that fund and that it it ties back to

it's it it's not the uh American Rescue

Plan Act or ARPA funds but but the ARPA

funds that we receive are are are

producing such a such a return of uh

interest income in the sense when that

money was deposited into the federal

grants fund and a a large there was a

large piece of revenue replacement that

was moved from the grants fund to the

general fund and then of course

uh there was the initiatives and the

activities there there was a

presentation recently from from the

business administrator on that but those

funds have been moved from the general

fund over to the state grants fund where

they are generating interest income Um,

and we

we researched going all the way back to

the the receipt of the ARPA money. Uh,

the federal government has confirmed

there's no need to be concerned about

returning any interest income, which

which can be the case at times when it

comes to federal grants. The city does

not have to return that interest income

that is generating. and also as a as a

bonus if you will there's no restriction

on uh the use of of those funds. So it's

a good utilization uh for this

particular project as as a new a as an

additional funding resource to the

general fund. Um the

part of the grant funds too have amounts

that are still there on deposit from

previous initial outlays by the general

fund where the general fund had to do

upfront expenditures and then submit

those to the grtor agency and then would

be subsequently reimbursed. So there are

various such amounts in uh both state

and federal grants fund that are due to

the general fund which were not in this

year's original appropriated budget.

So um that that's the biggest again the

biggest component of that 1.6 is the 1.3

million in projected interest income. Um

for the federal grants fund it's it's a

little smaller. It's it's $412,000.

Again, these are amounts that are uh

earmarked to be reimbursed back to the

general fund which has not occurred yet.

Um there is an older

uh CO 19 grant from the US Department of

Justice which is a little over $161,000.

And also police has uh a training

assistance grant that is periodically

uh re reimbured peace meal based on

submitted time documentation. Uh it's

through the alcoh alcohol, tobacco, and

firearms firearms program. So that that

has been building up over time. That

that amounts to about $150,000.

So those two, the the ATF and and and

the COVID from DOJ, uh, make up about

75% of that 412,000.

So again, grant fund related for those

two lines. Now, the last line is the

estimated cash carryover. And this from

time to time gets referred to as fund

balance, the city's cash fund balance.

So the again it's closing the gap on on

what's being asked uh from on the

amendment side of expense.

Uh one thing to note about this and it

kind of dubtales back to what Dave and

and uh and Neil were talking about with

timing. Um, so this budget amount of

19.3 that we're trying to get to, we

don't of course anticipate that's going

to be an actual spend before the end of

the year because it's an 18-month

projected project. Um we've roughed out

percentages as to what the potential

spend could be and uh again these are

also I know there's so many estimates

but we figure say about 40%

in the last three months of this year

for significant upfront costs that have

to occur right away and then another 45%

next year for the whole you know going

through the year and then finally say in

the first quarter of 2027 the remaining

15% % based that's like a spend

projection.

But uh as you know when it comes to

these contracts that are being uh

finalized right now for these heavy

construction costs

ultimately when they get signed off by

the law bureau and the mayor uh the

mayor and the the uh the controller uh

the biggest thing that they need to have

on hand is to know that budget is there.

it's secure and available and there's

also incumbrances that are going through

the system right now to commit to the

obligation. So the the budget is needed

to to accommodate that. So that's why

this is looking at it, you know, from a

from such a full overall perspective on

what what the full budget need needs to

be this year before the end of the year,

but knowing that the it won't be uh

equated to is the full spend of of $19

million before before the end of 2025.

Um,

last thing I'll mention, uh, Vice

President Green, just on the schedule,

um, the the down below other funds are

just meant to show a tie-in to what's

shown above. Uh, the the first two lines

are the blight fund. This is the

transfer out component going to the

general fund. There's two separate

budget units, salvage and permit

penalty, that are split, 50,000 each.

that makes up the 100,000 that's going

into the general fund up above. And then

the capital projects fund appears there

as well. The 375,000

that

um that would relate to uh street cut

and that's the public works side of the

capital projects fund. And these are

shown because they are actually in the

original budget ordinance that was uh

approved by this body um for for for

2025. So it's it's good to show these

because

on this on this schedule because they

play a role uh in in budget uh budget

ordinance-wise whereas the other funds

the grant funds are not

in the same way included in the budget

ordinance but but they are nonetheless

have available amounts and in some cases

they they have project budget which

which can accommodate the requests we're

making.

And that's Vice President Green. That's

the last comment I have on on on this

presentation.

>> Thank you, Mr. McCutchens. I'm going to

start with questions for my colleagues.

I'll start to my right this time with

Councilwoman Daniels.

>> No questions. Thank you.

>> Thank you, Councilwoman Davis.

>> No questions.

>> Thank you, President Hill.

>> I don't have any questions. Thanks for

clarifying where the influx came in for

the state grants fund and the federal

grant fund. Thanks for that.

>> Yes, you're welcome.

>> Thank you, Councilwoman Ross.

>> Thank you. I don't have any questions,

but same sentiment with um President

Hill just now I know where the influx is

coming from. So, thank you for that

clarity.

>> Yep. Glad to hear it.

>> Thank you, Councilman Rodriguez.

>> Thank you, Madam Chair. I'd like to

thank Director Baker for giving us some

some of his time and um Mr. McCutchen

for the thorough presentation. Um

nothing further from me. I just uh can't

wait to or I anticipate the project

getting up and going. So, thank you.

>> Thank you. And Councilman Jones,

>> no questions. Thank you.

>> Thank you. And thank you, Mr. McCutchen.

I do appreciate the presentation. Um I

do have a couple of I guess kind of like

requests. Um, I'm not sure if they're

for you or for Director Baker. Um, and

they don't need to be given tonight, but

I'd like to have them before we vote on

this. If we can get something in

writing, whether it's a presentation, a

write it up, just um going over the

total project cost and a breakdown of

the cost, like what are we expecting to

be done with this money? Is there going

to be HVAC system? You know, like what's

the the actual expectation of the market

project? Um, obviously if we have a

total budget now, we um have an idea of

what we're expecting to do to bring the

the market back to opening. Uh, if we

could also get a timeline of how long we

think that'll be. I know we said 18

months just now of this presentation,

but if we can kind of just get a

timeline breakdown so that the public

will kind of have some information of

what we're looking at as far as when the

market might open um, and what all might

be coming in it. Um, and then for

Solicitor Grover, uh, is this

legislation timesensitive? Would it be

okay if we put it on our October 14th

legislative agenda?

>> It it is very timesensitive. The

original notice that went out with the

bids in August um had anticipated bids

uh contracts in um signed in September.

Um the initial ones can be signed

because there's already the funding for

them. As I think Mr. Mr. McCutchen

indicated originally the overall

project's about $23 million. It is

getting this appropriation up to the 19

that allows all the contracts to be

signed. So, for example, today because

it was already an appropriation, the

demo contract was the first one to go

was signed by the mayor uh through the

bid process. Um the uh last bid is still

not in for the site prep. Um and so

we're they're looking for that number.

Um

but because entities have to order

materials uh and things like that along

the line, it is timesensitive to get it

in. It is time sensitive to lock in the

bid numbers that we got. Um there is

just and I don't I don't have a hard

deadline in my head for what the what

what the the bid announcement said of

how soon the contracts would do. I can

get that for you, but it is

timesensitive. And I I was frankly going

to ask the council president from a

discussion I had with the clerk's office

earlier today whether we could add a

special session to next week's uh

September 30th meeting just to vote if

and that discussion hasn't happened yet.

>> Okay. Thank you for that. I would be I

would be fine if we had a special

legislative session. Um I just don't

think I'm ready to vote on it tonight.

Um, and I don't think it would be fair

to the public or the council to ask for

it to be voted on tonight. Um, and our

next scheduled legislative session isn't

until mid-occtober. So, if we could get

a special legislative session, I'd be

fine with that.

>> Yeah. Legally, you cannot vote on it

tonight. That's just not legally

possible. So,

>> okay.

All right. Are there any other questions

or comments regarding uh the six

proposed budget reallocation?

>> No. No. Um, thank you.

>> It's Vice President Green. Uh, it's

Brian. Uh, the schedule. Um, the

timeline of course that's Yeah, that's

another one that would be, you know, of

course, uh, Dave Dave Baker would be

would be good with that one. U, but I

I've developed actually too many

schedules in recently. But there there's

what you mentioned about uh I have a a

summary that I can send out. Do you want

me to just send that out to to all of

council or do you want me to send it to

you? Which will I think it goes to what

you're talking about. It'll summarize

the payments and then it it summarizes

the the 11 bids, although they're not

done, right? They're not finally

approved. I mean, but it's that kind of

a a look currently.

Do you want me to send that just send it

out blanketly to uh council members and

everybody?

>> Uh if you can send it to Mr. truthale

and then he can forward it all to us. I

would appreciate that.

>> Okay, that's that's perfect. Thank you.

>> Thank you.

If there are no other questions or

comments, um I will ask that this is

moved to our next legislative agenda. Uh

not tonight obviously and hopefully we

can have a special legislative agenda

that this will be on.

>> Thank you.

Uh we will move forward with our meeting

agenda. Next we have public comment. Um

just a few housekeeping notes before we

begin. If you'd like to offer public

comment um on the work session agenda

items, um please state your name and

your address for the meeting record. If

you don't feel comfortable sharing your

address, please share the vicinity in

which you live within the city. You will

have four minutes to share your

comments. Mr. Trudale has added a timer

to the screen. Um, so I'll begin to my

right. Is there anyone that would like

to offer public comment?

Yes.

Okay. Seeing no one, anyone in the

middle section? Seeing no one, anyone to

my left.

The time is 7:17

p.m. I will entertain a motion to

adjurnn.

>> Is there a second?

>> Second.

>> Thank you.

If it's okay with everyone, I'd like to

move right into our legislative session.

So, the time is 7:17 p.m. I will

entertain a motion.

Oh, I'd like to call the meeting to

order. Sorry.

Mr. Trudeale, could you please call the

role?

>> Miss Daniels,

>> here.

>> Miss Davis,

>> present.

>> Miss Green,

>> present.

>> Mr. Jones

>> here.

>> Miss Rose

>> present.

>> Mr. Rodriguez

>> present.

>> Miss Hill

>> present. Thank you. The invocation this

evening will be led by Councilwoman Ross

followed by the pledge of allegiance

which will be led by Vice President

Green.

>> Thank you, uh, President Hill. Um, I

would just like for us to take a moment

um and have in our thoughts and in our

hearts the uh five police officers,

three who were um killed and two who

were injured um in York. Uh also I would

like to have on our hearts and thoughts

um the homeless or the I don't like to

say that but unhoused population right

now who um have to um move. um where

they're going to move, how how that's

gonna happen, and just um keeping them

in our thoughts and also just anybody

else who is going through anything or

having some trouble. Um just keeping

everybody in our hearts and our

thoughts. Let's just take a moment of

silence, please, for that.

Thank you.

>> Thank you, Councilwoman Ross. Vice

President Green.

>> Thank you. If everyone could please rise

for the pledge of allegiance.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the

United States of America and to the

republic for which it stands, one nation

under God, indivisible, with liberty and

justice for all. Thank you.

>> Thank you, Vice President Green for

communications. Thank you. This evening,

we are joined by Mr. Stuart Landon. He

serves as the producing artistic

director for Open Stage. We are

recognizing Open Stage's 40th

anniversary season.

>> Awesome.

>> Good evening.

>> Thank you very much for having me today.

I really really appreciate your time

everybody. Um I uh although I certainly

have a lot of them in my office, I have

not brought a single spreadsheet for

you.

I know if you need them, just stop on

over. I'll show you. Um, so the, uh,

first of all, uh, in case you're not

familiar, which I know you are, uh, this

is Open Stage. Um, first of all, I'm the

producing artistic director at Open

Stage of Harrisburg. Um, we, um, this is

a professional theater company here, one

of two professional theater companies

here in, uh, our capital. Um, we've been

located at 25 North Court Street for

over 30 years uh, at the street level of

the Walnut Street parking garage. So,

it's all of a minute walk from right

here. We've been part of Harrisburg's uh

cultural and civil uh civic life since

1983, though, and we're proud to call

downtown home. If you go to the next

slide, please. Uh so, we produced a lot

of really powerful plays and musicals

for the four decades that we've been

producing because of course we're

entering into our 40th year. The Diary

of Anne Frank, A Christmas Carol. We

produced those two shows for 25 years,

which is amazing. Um, and uh, those are

being reinvented this year, which I'll

talk a little bit more about that in a

second. Um, we produced wonderful

musicals like Funh Home, Hedwick and the

Angry Inch. Um, plays like Fored Girls

or August Wilson's um, Pittsburgh Cycle.

Our, uh, musical uh, concerts in the

fall have honored people like David

Bowie or Fleetwood Mack.

uh we honor the past and uplift the

present and we're going to champion the

future and the next 40 years. So let's

go and uh next slide please. These are

some of our wonderful artists here that

you're seeing. So uh this season our

theme is the next chapter. Um that's our

theme of the 40th season and we're not

looking back uh but we're honoring our

past and we're taking a bold step

forward. Um and I'm it's been a

wonderful season so far. We've started

it just this past month. So, next slide,

please.

Uh, right now we're doing a um wonderful

concert, a celebration of the Beatles

called Come Together that runs until

this Saturday. And uh it's a joyous

night of music and heart uh with

wonderful voices. And next up, we have

Dracula, a comedy of terrors, which is

spooky and funny and it's also really

stupid, which sometimes we need that. Um

and uh we operate three performance

venues. Uh our 108 seat Capital Bluec

Cross main stage, our 60 seat studio

theater, and the Court Street Cabaret,

which is a 40 seat venue offering

comedy, music, and community events. In

2019, we completed renovations after a

capital campaign and uh that the

community was very generous with

creating those revenue generating

opportunities and building a more

welcoming downtown arts campus. going

from one theater which can hold about

100 people to three spaces which is

really nice. Um this is their holiday

season. We've got EMTT Otter EMTT

Otter's Jug Ben Christmas uh which is

going to be hopefully a new tradition

that we have at Open Stage and Whose

Holiday, another really fun comedy. Uh

so that will fill our December. Um uh

EMTT Otter is based on a beloved um Jim

Henson muppet holiday special and whose

holiday is about Cindy Luhoo, but she's

all grown up and life did not go as

planned. It's uh both are very fun. U

EMTT otter for the family and whose

holiday is definitely not.

Um we stay busy in December with music,

comedy, and holiday cheer. And in fact,

we now produce events for nearly half

the year, keeping our stages and our

city full of life. So, uh, on this

slide, you can see a couple of shows

that we're taking on tour this year.

This fall, we're taking A Christmas

Carol on the road to schools, libraries,

and retirement communities. And in the

spring, we'll tour Anne and Peter, a new

play that we're writing, a moving new

piece, imagining a conversation between

Anne Frank and Peter Van Pel's. uh you

know we presented uh Christmas Carol and

the Diary of VanF Frank on our stages

for 25 years and I would say we're a

little bit of an expert so but right now

schools are going through a really tough

spot and I think it's really important

that we meet them where they are. So

we're taking these shows to them rather

than expecting them to come to us. We

know how busing is tough right now with

so many districts um and of course

budgets are always tight. We're going to

meet those students, those seniors, and

those families with compassion and

creativity. And I'm really excited for

that. Um, and then that every spring for

the last four years, we presented the

good at heart festival, which is

inspired by Anne Frank's quote, in spite

of everything, I still believe that

people are really good at heart. And so,

we have a week of conversation and art

uh and celebrate Ann's spirit. And we

bring together films and conversation

and theater. Uh so that's going to

happen again this coming March and

that's going to be very exciting. Um all

all of it's open to the public and much

of it is free. Um next slide please. The

Alced Theater School uh which was

previous previously called the Open

Stage uh studio school was uh named

after our founders Don and Anne Alced in

2019 and uh sorry in 2017 when they

retired. We serve uh hundreds of

students each year through year-round

education programming. We also of course

have thousands of students that come

through our doors when it comes to the

different uh shows that we presented

over the last 25 years or 40 years

depending on how you count it. And we

also partner uh with local uh schools uh

to mentor young artists and to of course

uh bring our our shows to them. We're

not just teaching performance though at

the Alletic Theater School. We're

building confidence, compassion, and

future citizens.

In the spring, we have a big show, Jesus

Christ Superstar. We're going to be at

the Forum Auditorium, which I'm really

excited about. For one weekend only,

we're going to have the largest cast

that Open Stage has ever had. We're

going to be in the largest theater Open

Stage has ever been at, and we're

probably going to do one of the biggest

shows Open Stage has ever done. um but

thrilling vocals, this large ensemble

and community partnerships. This is

certainly going to be a wonderful way uh

to uh celebrate our 40th year with um uh

Harrisburg being at the center. Uh uh

the next slide, please. Um and this is

my final slide with just some pictures

of some wonderful shows we've done over

the last few years. Um honestly, folks,

my wonderful council I' I've been a a

citizen here. I I moved to Harrisburg in

2007. Uh and I love Harrisburg. Um and

Open Stage loves Harrisburg and but

we've never been just a theater. We're a

family of artists and um and I I'll say

a pillar maybe in the arts community,

although I hate that word sometimes, but

I think that's what we are after 40

years, right? At a time when funding is

scarce and even decency and passion are

called weakness, we choose to lead with

courage. We open minds. We lift voices.

We make room for truth, joy, and

complexity. We ask big questions without

easy answers. And we're standing right

now at a strategic threshold. We want to

pay artists a living wage. We want to

expand our education and touring

programs. We want to reach more patrons.

And we want to support Harrisburg's

growth by staying rooted here and

staying visionary. So, just so you know,

we've been operating at 80% capacity

over the last couple of seasons, which

is actually astounding for our

particular industry and the standards

there. Um, that means people are coming

to Harrisburg. People are coming

downtown. People are spending money in

our city. They're dining out. They're

parking. They're walking here. They're

investing in our city. And we're part we

we were part of the last downtown

revitalization when I talked with our

our founding artistic director, Don

Aledc, about that a bit over the years.

and we're looking forward to the next

one honestly as we continue down that

journey and those explorations we're

currently having. Um I invite this body

uh to come and have a tour at Open Stage

if you haven't yet. Um uh maybe a drink

at our bar if that is something you'd be

interested in and uh or maybe take in a

show musical or a play. We'd be glad to

have you. And finally, we've been called

a hidden gem for years. We're on that

grand thoroughfare of Court Street after

all and I think it might be time to just

be a gem. So, thank you very much for

your time.

>> Thank you so much. Um, we do have a

proclamation in recognition of your 40th

anniversary season. So, just bear with

me a moment. The city of Harrisburg,

Pennsylvania, Office of City Council and

Office of City Clerk