Harrisburg City Planning Commission Meeting - 10/01/2025

zone industrial by Charlotte Kim Moyer

with Capital Region Water is to

construct an industrial building and

associated site and access improvements.

The applicant has requested that the

application be withdrawn.

We don't have to vote on it.

>> No vote.

under new business. Uh first item is a

special exception application for 2017

North6 Street. It's zone commercial

general. It's filed by Robbie Singh.

Hope I got that right. With 2017 North

6th Street LLC. This is to request

relief from the off- streetet parking

requirements associated with the

redevelopment of the site and expansion

of the convenience store component of

the site.

>> Uh yes. So the applicant is requesting

relief from the off- streetet parking

requirements associated with the

redevelopment of the site and expansion

of the convenience store component of

the site per section 7-327.6

of the zoning code. The new structure

would require 58 off streetet parking

spaces whereas the applicant will only

be providing 31 spaces on site. Property

at 2017 North 6th Street is a 0.52 acre

lot featuring a one-story 1884 ft

structure which was constructed in 1965.

Property is bounded by Mcclelay Street

to the north, Wallace Street to the

east. The property at 2015 North 6th

Street to the south and North 6th Street

to the west. This detached structure

features elements of vernacular

commercial architectural style.

Character defining features include the

brick facade of the primary structure,

the former garage bays on the front

elevation infilled with siding doors and

windows, a building addition on the side

elevation topped with a metal railing,

the standing seam metal roof with ice

stops, and the coupoopa with louvered

vents. The main entrance features full

view metal double doors flanked by

sidelights and topped with a roll down

security gate. There's a secondary

entrance on the side elevation which

features a solid metal door with a kick

plate. Administration also includes

windows of varying sizes and

configurations. The front elevation

features large storefront windows. The

structure is topped with a standing sea

metal roof featuring ice stops and ice

stops and topped with an ornamental

coupula featuring louvers and a final. A

large canopy sheltering four gas pumping

islands uh projects from the building

across the width of the site much of

which is paid for vehicular access and

parking. Although there are pockets of

minimal landscaping along the street

front edges and a large freestanding

sign in the corner near the

intersection. The eastern third of the

site is a gravel lot with overgrown

vegetation surrounded by a chainlink

fence topped with barbed wire. The

building and accessory structures have

little in the way of aesthetic value and

the property differs significantly from

the blocks to the north. As such as such

the property does not contribute to the

architectural character of the

streetscape.

The planning bureau staff recommends the

request be approved with the following

conditions. Uh, the applicant should

consider removing the westernmost

proposed curb cut on the Mcclelay Street

frontage of the property given its

proximity to the intersection and

potential to create confusing and

dangerous traffic circulation for both

drivers and pedestrians with traffic

anticipated to increase upon completion

of the building directly to the north.

Uh, pedestrian volumes will likely

increase at the intersection as well. Uh

the applicant must coordinate with

Capital Region Water regarding the site

disturbance and proposed development

footprint to ascertain what storm water

mitigation effects may be necessary

efforts may be necessary. Uh the

applicant should consider installing low

plant screenings in the setback areas

around the perimeter of the site to

improve the aesthetics of the property

andor incorporate storm water management

infrastructure if possible. Uh the

applicant must ensure that dumpster

enclosures designed and built in

conformance with the regulations in

section 7-3312

of the zoning code. And finally, the

applicant must ensure that signage for

the redeveloped site is brought into

conformance with the zoning code and

that current non-conforming signage

signage such as feather flag signs and

electronically changing signage is

removed and not reinstalled. Planning

Bureau staff recommends the request be

approved for the following reasons.

Proposed development will replace an

outdated makeshift structure and

overgrown undeveloped lot with a

blighting influence on the streetscape

with a modern convenience store building

that will enhance retail options for

surrounding residents and workers.

Because the use is already operating on

site, approval of the proposal will not

alter the essential character of the

neighborhood and will provide benefits

such as temporary cone con construction

jobs, aesthetic improvements and

improved traffic circulation. And

finally, the project will result in the

removal of one unnecessary curb cut

along North Sixth Street, and if the

bureau's conditions are adopted, a

second curb cut along Mcclay Street,

clarifying vehicular access to the site,

removing vehicular pedestrian conflict

points, and making access and

circulation safer for all road users.

Thank you, Jeff. Could you state your

name's address? Sorry. Yeah. Your name,

register to the project, and and your

address.

>> Yes. Hi, I'm Jacob Domen, attorney with

Stevens and Lee in the Harrisburg office

here. Uh the attorney representing the

applicant. And what's me?

>> My name is Sean Haw. I'm the civil

engineer for the project from Langan

Engineering. I'm a senior project

manager with the firm.

>> Okay. Um you gentlemen heard the staff

report with the conditions. Are you

acceptable of those conditions?

>> I I believe we are. Uh I mean I would

like to talk to our our client. Um so we

apologize the applicant wasn't able to

be here tonight about the restrictions

for the northwest corner off of

Mcclelay, but I think that's that's a a

condition that we can work through um

with dead end parking or something

similar in that corner.

>> Okay.

>> And the rest of them I believe are we're

willing to comply with.

>> Okay.

Um, commissioners, I no questions at

this time. Uh, so if you have any

concerns or questions, I'll start with

Commissioner McKenzie.

No questions. I think this project's

pretty straightforward. It's a

reconstruction of a very tired similar

function predating the zoning code. So,

>> Commission,

>> uh, yeah, I agree with Mr. McKick. It's

straightforward and refreshing what's

already there. So you have in favor?

>> Commissioner Reed?

>> No. So we won't be changing that at all.

There will be a modification to the

canopy. Um right now where we're

proposing the drive aisle in the

southern boundary or in the southern

side of our our plan, there's a you know

a pole that supports the canopy. So

we'll do a structural analysis of what's

what's out there now so that we could

remove that propose better circulation,

but the fueling stations will stay the

same. Okay,

that's

>> Commissioner.

>> Um, no issues with the application of

special exception. I have a question.

Maybe this would be for the planning

bureau. Wouldn't this would this need a

land development plan?

>> Um,

>> right.

>> Well, we wouldn't because there's no

change in impervious surface. Um,

>> are you sure? Uh yes, because the gra

the the gravel area where the proposed

building is like we consider compacted

gravel to be impervious surface unless

gravel is specifically designed uh to

handle storm water management. Um we

have not um required a land development

plan for like a change in a footprint of

a building like this and especially if

there's no increase in impervious

surface.

>> So why do we do land development plans

for residential conversions?

Um, I would say

>> often times we see an existing building

footprint with no external changes, but

they still have to submit a land

development plan.

>> I think that's

>> and this one has a complete rebuild of a

building and a restructuring redesign of

a parking lot.

>> Um, I that's a good question actually.

Um, that was more of uh something that

we've kind of continued from before when

I worked here to when I started. it was

uh that was the standard by which we

determined uh land development plans. Um

so I just maintain that going forward. I

don't disagree with you that maybe the

threshold uh for what uh should be a

land development plan especially with

conversion of properties might be a

little different. Um but that's uh the

regulations and the standards we had

when I began here. So I just continue

doing it.

>> Interesting. Okay.

Yeah. I would I would look at site

changes, right, to predicate a land need

of a use of a land development plan

being needed.

So, but we go with what's currently

written in our city codes. So,

understood. Thank you.

>> Jeff's saying no because it's already

the entire site's already fully

impervious and that's not changing.

>> They may still have to go to DCD because

they'll have to dig up the property, but

the before and after essentially of what

is impervious won't change um from the

regulatory standpoint, but the actual

action of getting in there and digging

it up is what will cause the DCCD

review.

>> Yeah.

>> Um Commissioner Jordan.

>> Yes. Um another question for Planning

Bureau. Um, I think there's two

different references to it in here.

Basically saying that the convenience

store should require in this particular

case 58 spaces, but we're allowing 31

just due to the transient nature of um,

business.

>> Um, is that something that maybe should

be looked at in the future so that maybe

it require a special exception in the

future for this particular type of

property?

>> Absolutely. And you know, I thought

about that as I was going through where

I was just like, yeah, I was kind of I

was kind, you know, there I think

there's justification in that there's,

you know, on street parking and

surrounding blocks, especially on Sixth

Street to the south, and there's bus

routes that go through. But when I'm

when I was thinking about this and I was

like, well, who's going to take a bus to

the site anyway as a as a justification?

I mean, uh um and yeah, I think I it

certainly seems um to be a pretty

excessive amount of parking to provide

for again such a transient use.

>> Yeah. Like if maybe the threshold for

the convenience store with the gas

should just be lower so that there's not

so many things that are meeting a

special extension.

>> Correct. Correct.

>> Come and go nature.

>> Yeah, I definitely think um you know

something I I don't know what a correct

one would be. We'd probably have to look

at some other um more modern ones maybe

in the surrounding municipalities or

elsewhere in the state here to see what

they're using. But um yeah, you're not

going to have 58 cars on the property at

one time. Okay. Um, and the only other

question I had is for um the first

recommendation um I'm not familiar with

this. I'll just ask. Is

is when it comes to the curb cuts, is

that something that we require or is

that just something that we can just

recommend?

>> So, I would say that this is a

recommendation. Um, I would I believe

that um applicants have a possibly legal

right to maintain the same amount of

curb cuts. Uh we certainly appreciate

them getting rid of one and I would say

that probably from a traffic engineering

perspective you would not have them this

close to the uh intersection just

because I could see somebody pulling out

as like cars were going through. Um but

it's an artifact of you know an older

design when you didn't have those

standards and you have those legal right

to maintain that. So um I would consider

this to be more of a condition uh and or

sorry a recommendation uh than a

requirement

>> and that's due to it already existing.

>> Correct.

>> Okay. All right, that's all the

questions I have. Thank you.

>> Um I'm just gonna ask the solicitor if

she had any um concerns with what

Commissioner Jordan said.

>> I mean,

but at this time, no.

I noticed you sort of

>> I was looking up.

That was a good question to me.

>> Those of us who were on the board,

you know, so

there needs to be some,

you know, some of the uniqueness of

these projects does bring up some of the

little flaws that are

suggest

Commissioner

>> in terms of retail for

>> here.

for the parking. I I think it's for this

one. It's somewhat based on our

experience with other convenience store

developments um in areas within city

limits and outside of city limits. Uh

we've worked on, you know, other

convenience stores with a bigger

footprint and they have

>> Yeah. While this is not a specific end

user at this time, um, in terms of like

a bigger name or anything like that, 31

seems to uh, you know, kind of comply

with what this site has, whereas we're

looking at bigger units that might be in

the 40s, the low 40s. This one's a

little bit smaller. It's within city

limits. And then, you know, based on the

feedback from from the engineer, you

know, there's streets with potential

parking there as well and other means of

accessing the site other than car

traffic. I think the 31 kind of makes

sense for the site specifically.

>> With that, I'll go to the public um 314

against this project and I'll start with

the middle section

and go on the right

appears there's no one with questions on

it. So, commissioners, uh, most of you

said this is straightforward.

Could I get a motion?

>> Is there a second?

>> Second.

>> It's been moved. A second for approval

of this project with the conditions. All

those in favor state by saying I.

>> I.

>> Opposed.

Obstensions. Motion carried. Goodbye.

>> All right. Thank you all for your time.

Okay, this is item number two. This is a

variance in special application

application for 1332

North Second Street and 122 C Street.

This is a residential medium density

followed by Adam Berman with Brenamman

Properties LLC.

It's to expand the existing

non-conforming multif family dwelling

used on site by adding eight new units

to the existing five units on site by

converting space occupied by the former

funeral home. The applicant also seeks

to utilize existing service parking lots

on the properties as a parking lot or

structure commercial use.

>> Uh yes. So the applicant is proposing to

expand the existing non-conforming

multi- family dwelling use by adding

eight new units to the existing five

units on site by converting first floor

space occupi formerly occupied uh by a

funeral home uh which requires zoning

hearing board approval of a special

exception per section 7-321.4b.

The applicant also seeks to utilize

existing surface parking lots on the

property as a parking lot or structure

commercial use which requires zoning

hearing board approval of a variance

application for section 7-305.7

zoning code and the planning

commissioners may remember that this was

brought up a few months ago um and it uh

was denied by the zoning hearing board

um and that was for but that was just

for a singular use of the um accessory

parking lot at 1332 North Second Street

as a commercial parking lot. Um and so

uh this proposal envisions it being

almost um a secondary aspect to the

expansion of the existing multif family

dwelling in the uh building on site. Uh

the property at 1332 North Second Street

is a48 acre lot featuring a three-story

structure resulting from the combination

of three separate buildings into a

mixeduse building, a funeral home and

apartments with a total area of 8,428 ft

which were constructed circa 1900 and a

separate storage garage of 20020 ft

which was constructed in 1957. Property

is bounded by Calder Street to the

north, North Second Street to the east,

Safeford Street to the south, and the

property at 124 Safeford Street and

Safford Street and a small Grocerer's

alley to the west. This semi- detached

structure features elements of of an

indeterminant architectural style,

character-defining features include the

form the formed stone facade and water

table, the multiple access points

sheltered by awnings around the

building, the regular fenistration

pattern, the upper floor decks on the

rear elevation and roof, and the

freestanding signs near the parking lot

and building entrances. There are

multiple entrances throughout the

building, although the main entrance on

the eastern elevation features panel

double doors and a and a full view door

set in simple frames which are sheltered

by a large awning with square posts and

an arch section. Other entrances on the

front and side elevations feature the

same windows, same types of doors and

similar awnings. Menistration on the

front elevation features two over two

windows set in simple form stone

surrounds with soldier course headers

and sills wrapped in aluminum.

Administration on the side elevation is

more irregular and features two over

two, one over one and plate glass

windows. Structure is primarily topped

with flat rubber roofs. The other major

feature of the site is a sizable surface

parking lot occupying the southern half

of the property which is bordered by

planting beds with trees along the

eastern frontage with second street and

a 4ft high chain link fence along the

center southern frontage with Safford

Street. Though the architectural style

differs somewhat from other nearby

buildings, specifically with respect to

the formstone and awnings, and the large

parking lot distinguishes the property

from others in the historic district,

the building height, massing, and

location along lot lines does generally

reflect built environment of the

surrounding community. As such, the sub

the subject property minimally

contributes to the architectural

character of the neighborhood. Property

at 122 Calder Street is a 09 acre

surface parking lot with curb with curb

stops for 11 spaces on site. The only

access is via metal gate accessed from

Cder Street and access is otherwise

prohibited by metal ballards. Property

is bounded by narrow rights of way to

the north and east, Cer Street to the

south, and Lton Street to the west. The

planning bureau staff recommends the

request be approved for the following

reasons. If or with the following

conditions, if granted zoning approval

to move forward with the project as

proposed, the applicant must submit a

land development plan for the

establishment of 13 residential units on

site. Any exterior alterations to the

property must be submitted for review by

the city's historic preservation

specialist and may require harveiness

application. Uh the applicant must

remove the ballard from the sidewalk

along the lot and street frontage of 122

Calder Street and reconstruct the

sidewalk at that location to allow safe

pedestrian passage. Finally, the

planning bureau recommends the applicant

identify a method of controlling access

to the lots, either through automated

keyed entry gates or through on-site

management of the lots to prevent

unauthorized access and ensure spaces

are available for the principal users of

the lots, the residents of the multif

family dwelling. Planning bureau staff

recommends the request be approved for

the following reasons. The proposed

expansion of the multif family dwelling

use from 5 to 13 units represents a

reasonable proposal for reuse of the

former funeral home on the first floor

is likely to have less impacts than

other potential uses for the space such

as a convenience store or restaurant and

will provide new housing units to

address the need evident in the city

generally and the neighborhood

specifically. With respect to the

proposed parking lot or structure

commercial aspect of the proposal, the

planning bureau notes that

does not require zoning relief for any

proposed development or use, but rather

who will be using the existing parking

spaces and thus represents a deminimous

deviation from the zoning regulations

which meets the applicable criteria in

the zoning code. While surface parking

lots are generally not advisable from a

planning perspective as they represent

an underutilization of valuable urban

land and create impacts such as storm

water runoff and urban heat island

effect, in this instance, it is

reasonable to maximize the utility of

spaces in an existing lot by leasing

parking to local residents. And finally,

reuse of the property to accommodate

parking demand created by residents and

businesses of the surrounding

neighborhood. Can provide benefits by

reducing on street parking near

intersections in crosswalks and on

vacant lots. can provide secured parking

for those residents wishing to sign

leases and can be designed to

incorporate elements such as landscape

screening that improve the aesthetics of

the property.

>> Thank you, Jeff. Could you state your

names, address, and relationship to the

project?

>> Yes. Excuse me. Phil Patrina, uh, Mcnes

Wallace and Eric, 100 Pine Street,

Harrisburg. Uh, attorney for the

applicant, Brenamman Properties LLC.

Uh Michael White, Midtown Property

Management, 1419 North Third, authorized

representative and agent for the owner,

Adam.

>> Okay. Uh you both heard the staff

report. Are you acceptable of the

conditions?

>> Um yes, we generally concur uh with Mr.

Knight's report. Uh that was very

thorough and I believe covered the the

application well. Uh we did have a

presentation tonight, but understanding

that you guys have quite the agenda um

this evening. Uh so I won't belver the

point uh of Jeff's report. Um we're in

agreement with the conditions uh and the

general characterizations of this

project uh from the bureau planning

report and as stated in our zoning uh

application.

Um, one of the areas I always talk about

is uh parking, but it seems you guys

have good a lot of parking spaces

available.

>> Yeah, this one, and I think Jeff sort of

got to this uh and as we stated in our

application, this is a unique situation

where you have a former funeral home in,

you know, in the middle of Midtown um on

Second Street that has sort of declined

usage over the years. And attached to

that funeral home is a very large

parking lot um with a secondary parking

lot just across CER Street from it uh

with total access to 46 off streetet

parking spaces. Um so you have an

unusually large paved pre-existing

parking lot in the city which is is a

rarity as you guys know down here. Um

and

for the intensity of the use for multif

family only requires 16 parking spaces.

So you're left with this still

cumbersome large parking lot um that the

applicant has to figure out what to do

with which was uh you know the the

calculus behind the variance request um

to be able to lease those parking spaces

uh in the RM district to neighboring

property owners um both know in in the

neighborhood and other um residents of

the neighborhood who may be in need

parking space.

>> Thanks. As I said, you're sort of

different than most people. Most don't

have enough parking.

>> Yeah, we have the opposite problem here

uh for a change, which yeah, is an

interesting one.

>> Good problem.

>> Uh commissioners, that's my only

question so far. So, I'll go to you with

your questions and concerns. Start with

commissioner.

>> No, I think this is kind of a unique one

in that the the damage is done in terms

of dem demolition for the surface lots

long before current zoning orlay. Um

Josh, I just want to reconfirm. I I

think I know the answer, but we're

outside the no compete area.

>> Correct. It actually runs down the

center of second street. Yeah.

>> Okay. So, that's that's

an important issue, you know, we've been

talking about. So, um

I have I've got no other questions. I

guess that what's what's the use of the

lot in right now?

>> It's basically vacant. Um the funeral

home uses it on you know the occasion

that they have a funeral.

>> Are they still functioning within the

building or they will stop at the end of

this?

>> They uh so we entered into an agreement

of sale and at this point in time

they're not conducting there. Um

our understanding uh in conversations

with the owner, the current owner of the

property, is that the the reason for

them closing that location is they were

only having maybe two funerals um every

couple of months there at that location.

So, they just didn't really have a need

for it. Um most of the funerals that

they're doing are out in Susana Township

on Nlestown Road. Um and so they made

the decision to just close this

and put it up for sale. Um, at which

point our client entered into agreed to

purchase it.

>> This was this bitner has it most

recently.

>> Yes.

>> And it's been it's been there since at

least the 1950s. I think probably even

longer. It was a funeral home. Um, for

whatever reason,

>> folks are are using funeral homes uh

outside the city.

>> Right. When it opened, we had 90,000

residents in the city, too.

>> Yeah. Sure. very different from

scenario. I have no other questions.

>> Okay, Commissioner.

>> Yeah, Jeffrey, to the best you can, what

was the um zoning hearing board's

rationale?

>> Um I think I didn't read through all of

their um uh their decision. Uh but I

believe it was basically uh related to

there could be a future use for the

building that necessitated the use of

some of the parking on the So they

didn't think that it met the

justification for a variance where the

full use of that surface parking lot

would be just as a commercial parking

lot because I think they felt that there

was an opportunity for reuse of the

building as the applicants are proposing

and therefore a need to use some of that

parking and without knowing what that

reuse would be they didn't know how much

of the parking necessary.

>> All right.

Of course one of the issues that comes

up when look at something like this is

the uh the density. Obviously, you don't

have a problem with the

>> uh they're actually in conformance with

um the regulations. They could have up

to 14 units by right um due to the

relatively large size of that of this

parcel and that's not including 122 CRE

Street either. Um so the 13 units is in

conformance.

>> All right. Yeah. Nothing beyond that.

>> Commissioner Reed,

>> I have no questions. Commission Merrick.

>> Nope. No. Uh, no other questions for me.

>> Commissioner Jordan,

>> one question for you, Jeffrey. Similar

to the last case, um, with the landscape

screening, um, is there a reason that it

is a recommendation and not a

requirement for the lots? Uh, I mean,

because the lots are as they are right

now, and I'm also not quite sure without

having a full layout of what the parking

lot's going to look like, whether they

have space to be able to install that

around, um, the periphery of the site.

They might need all of that to fit in

the number of spaces that they're

proposing. So, um, the applicants did, I

think, indicate a willingness to, uh,

bring the property into conformance by

putting in landscape screening. Um, but

I would presume that would be dependent

upon what the design of the parking lot.

Okay, that makes sense. Um, beyond that,

um, sounds like a smart use of the

parking, its benefit um, to the owner

and obviously the community around it.

So that's it. Thank you,

>> Commissioner Vincent.

>> Yeah, no question. Sounds pretty

straightforward. Extra housing and

adequate parks.

>> Okay, I'll go to the public. Therefore,

against this project, please state stand

and state your name and address. I'll

start in the middle

and go to my right.

So, commissioners, as we all said, it's

pretty straightforward. Can I get a

motion?

>> Uh motion to approve with conditions.

>> Is there a second?

>> Second.

>> It's been moved and second for approval

with the conditions. All in favor by

saying I.

>> I.

>> I.

>> Opposions.

Motion carried. Good luck.

>> Thank you. Have a good evening.

item number three. This is a special

exception application for 1100 North

17th Street. It's zone of residential

medium density followed by You're going

to have to help me with your name there.

What you need

>> following

is to establish a place of worship use

at the subject property.

>> Yes.

>> Uh yes. So the applicant is proposing to

establish a place of worship use at the

subject property which requires zoning

hearing board approval of a special

exception for the proposed use per

section 7-305.7

of the zoning code. Property at 1100

North 17th Street is a 09 acre lot

featuring a two-story 5646 square foot

structure which was constructed 1988.

Property is bounded by 112 and 1106

North 17th Street to the north. The

properties at 11:02 and 1104 North 17th

Street and North 17th Street to the

east, Hurst Street to the south, and

Shot Street to the west. The semi-

detached structure features elements of

an eclectic mid-century architectural

style. Character defining features

include the L-shaped building layout,

the very facade treatments including

brick, CMU block and wood siding, the

diverse window designs and the fullstory

building and the fullstory building

projection with cedar shingles and

inverted dormers on the side elevation.

The main entrance on the north 17th

street features a half view metal door

sheltered by a round canvas awning. It

is accessed by a narrow concrete

pathway. There is a secondary entrance

onto the Hurst Street sidewalk featuring

full view metal double doors. There are

three entrances on the rear elevation

that feature half view metal doors.

Administration includes windows of

varying sizes and configurations. The

first floor of the front elevation

features two storefront windows and

wooden infill panels of the other

storefront windows with circular

cutouts. A configuration that extends

around to the side elevation, although

they have been covered with plywood.

Otherwise, windows on the second floors

and the rear elevation are generally

plate glass windows with some featuring

hopper windows. Majority of the

structure is topped with a flat rubber

roof while the northern building

extension along Shot Street features a

simple hipped roof clad in asphalt

shingles. Property otherwise features a

small grass lawn along the frontage with

North 17th Street. Structure differs

significantly in both age and

architecture from the surrounding built

environment and has been significantly

altered over the years. Thus, it does

not contribute to the historic and

architectural character of the

neighborhood. In addition to the

principal property, the request also

involves the associated properties under

the same ownership at 1616 Hurst Street

and 1625 Cumberland Street, where the

applicant intends on providing the

required off- streetet parking. These

properties are generally asphalt surface

parking lots striped with parking

spaces. The former consists of two rows

of line parking, including two ADA

spaces enclosed by a 6ft high aluminum

fence and a small CMU black block garage

with three bays featuring roll down

security gates. and the ladder features

a row of lined parking and half of a

grass lawn enclosed by a six foot high

chain link fence. The planning bureau

staff recommends the request be approved

with the following conditions. The

applicant must submit a detailed site

plan developed by a professional for the

accessory parking lot at 1616 Hurst

Street showing the installation of

required landscaping along the western

frontage and new landscaping along the

southern frontage and parking spaces

configured in conformance with the

applicable regulations in section

7-327.8

eight of the zoning code. And that's

because the two rows of parking you see

the newest lined uh row of parking does

not permit um access into that second

row. Um that's kind of like a what would

be called a valet parking in our um

zoning code. So we need to see how

that's relined. Um the applicants do

have sufficient off- streetet parking if

that uh new row of parking is removed

regardless. Uh and then the new wall

signage as proposed by the applicant

will be limited to four square feet. uh

they noted it might would be six square

feet uh and must otherwise be in

conformance with the applicable zoning

regulations or a separate zoning relief

application will need to be approved by

the zoning hearing board. Planning

bureau staff recommends the request be

approved for the following reasons. The

property has experienced a an extended

period of vacancy of seven years and

previously accommodated a different

non-conforming use a child care center

on site. As such there support for the

allowance of a non-conforming use that

the building can be actively occupied.

Uh the project the project used is

fairly low intensity. um which should be

compatible with the surrounding

residential neighborhood and should not

increase and should not create adverse

impacts for residents. And the final one

supposed to say the applicant is

committed to building and site

improvements that should improve the

aesthetics of the property.

>> Okay. Thank you Jeff. Can you gentlemen

state your name, address, and

relationship to the project?

>> My name is Abdul Jal.

91

I'm

manager of the community terms of

getting the property so that's my

position

>> I'm one of the member of

>> okay still state your name and address

>> yeah my name

My address is 4123.

>> Okay.

>> Gentleman behind you. Is he with you?

>> Just address.

>> My name is

um you gentlemen heard the staff report.

They had two um

conditions.

Are you acceptable of those two

conditions?

>> Yeah.

>> Um Jeff, this is more for you. I think

you said in the report that they had the

right amount of parking spaces was about

19. Is that what you said? uh they have

about 20 and then the new five that they

put in and that was the 25 that they

have in their application but like I

said I don't the new ones were put in

you know and basically made the back

ones inaccessible if if you were to use

these so uh we just like to see a site

plan for that property um which you know

lays out exactly how legal spaces and

drive aisles will be installed so that

um all the spaces will be accessible if

parked.

>> Okay. My concern is they said they could

get up to 50 people.

>> Where are they going to go?

>> So, uh, the off street parking

requirements for a place of worship use

are one space for four seats. Um, and,

uh, the applicants didn't indicate how

many seats they would have, but they did

say they'd have 20 to 50 individuals on

a, um, weekly basis for services and up

to 75 for special events. So, I use that

as a proxy for the number of seats they

would have um and therefore what their

off- streetet parking requirements would

be. And uh as noted, between um the two

lots at 1616 Hurst Street and 1625

Cumberland Street, they do have uh the

required amount of off- streetet

parking.

>> I just don't know where the overflow is

going to go.

>> And I don't want them to park on her

street. Well, there is no parking. Oh,

there's parking across the street on her

street, but um there's no parking on

their side of her street.

>> Okay.

>> Okay. Uh with that, I ask my

commissioners if they have any questions

or concerns. Commissioner M.

>> Uh no, no specific questions or

concerns. I think just to note that the

uh uh it would be a difficult pro uh

property to convert to other but it does

seem to be appropriate given the

interior configuration for what's being

proposed. You know it's a good building

for remake. So uh you wish him well.

>> The only question I have is for Jeffrey.

Jeffrey was was this property before us

within the last two years maybe? uh you

probably I think it was in 2022 uh they

were proposing um I don't know if this

was these gentlemen but uh they were

proposing a convenience store on site uh

but I believe that got denied I don't

know that was being managed by our

former deputy planning director so I

don't know whether that was denied at

the planning commission or is on a

hearing board stage it just looked

familiar and I just don't just curious

so yeah that I'm in favor

>> well just to add to that I remember that

one a lot of the neighbors didn't want

that convenience

It came out

>> might be trouble and so forth.

>> Um, okay. Commissioner Green,

>> I have no questions.

>> Commissioner,

>> uh, no, I don't think I have any

questions. And I agree that uh this type

of use, you know, makes sense for for

this building space and what was there

previously.

>> Commissioner Jordan,

>> question for you, Jeffrey. Um they said

in their application they had u

referenced possibly installing a bike

rack.

>> Um I guess I was curious why that wasn't

a condition.

>> Um I guess I didn't have it in there as

a condition. I think I wrote it in there

in the parking area where I suggest or

in the section relative to parking where

I made a recommendation that it be um

located near the main entrance on 17th

Street and potentially sheltered if

possible. I don't know what kind of um

uh exterior alterations there the

applicants are planning to do, but I

think there's a possibility they remove

the existing awning that's over the main

entrance. And if so, they could install

a wide enough awning to uh shelter any

bike racks that could be installed

there. Okay. And um this is just more of

a general question in that same vein. So

um when it comes to bike parking, if

it's if it's a recommendation, is it

always a recommendation or can it be a

requirement?

>> Uh so we do have a uh the zoning code

does require bike parking if it's if a

proposed use has 10 or more required

spaces. Um it doesn't really um

kind of give any more information beyond

that like say what kind of design the

bike racks will be or even how many

there will be. So I would say that's

probably yet another deficiency in the

zoning code. Um but uh you know as a

general rule um we recommend using uh

the kind of bike pack uh r bike racks

that are out in front of um the Mad

Moose Tavern. I don't know if you're

familiar with those. They're just like a

single post with a circle. Uh they don't

take up a lot of space and they can be

attached to on both sides. Um so they

tend to be a pretty uh useful um model

to use.

>> Okay. So so basically when when a bike

rack install is required then beyond

that it's optional how it's how and

where and what type.

>> Correct. I mean sometimes in some cases

we do make recommendations of where it

should be. Like usually we recommend

they uh be close to a main entrance so

it's not like around the back of a

building and again sheltered if

possible. Um, so, uh, and usually I have

that in here as a condition of approval.

I think I just maybe slipped my mind as

I was writing these.

>> No worries.

>> But, but, but even the positioning is

still just a recommendation.

>> Correct.

>> Yep. Understood.

>> Nothing else from Thank you.

>> Thank you, Commissioner Vincent.

>> No questions. Seems pretty

straightforward. Okay.

>> I'll go to the public. If anyone's for

against this project, again, stand and

state your name and address. Let's start

with the middle.

And no one's to my right. No one to my

left. So they left. So commissioners

again. Uh could I get a motion?

>> Is there a second?

>> Second.

>> It's been moved and a second for

approval with the conditions. All those

in favor state by saying I

>> I

>> oppose. Obstensions. The motion carried.

Good luck, gentlemen.

This is item number four. This is a

variance and special session application

for 160516

to through 1613 Market Street. Again,

it's uh zone RM is filed by Chris

Franklin handles Hingham

Foundation and to request relief from

the regulation regarding lot with and to

request relief from the off street

parking requirements.

>> Mr. Sure. I'm a The applicant's a client

of mine, so I'll be accusing myself of

this application.

>> You understand?

>> That's it.

>> For once,

>> for

so uh this this application uh this

application and the next are related.

This is one of the zoning relief land

development um combos. Uh the next one

will be as well. Um so I can uh you know

read I don't know if you guys want to do

the um discussion for both um or I could

do one at a time because the conditions

are a little bit different. I usually

apply most of the physical conditions to

the land development plan um aspect. Um

up to up to you guys on how you want to

move forward but I can begin the case

review and you guys can decide from

there. Uh so the applicant is proposing

to construct four attached single family

town homes along with associated site

improvements. This project will require

consolidation and resubdivision of the

existing five lots at 1605 and 1613

Market Street into four lots. Given the

the space constraints, two of those

lots, lots number two and three, will

only be 16 ft wide. Because section

7-307.3

of the zoning code requires lots in the

residential medium density uh district

to have a minimum width of 20 ft. This

aspect of the project will require a

variance approval from the zoning

hearing board. Additionally, the

applicant is also requesting approval of

a special exception for relief from the

requirement to provide off- streetet

parking. The project site is comprised

of five vacant parcels totaling 0.15

acres owned by the Harrisburg

Redevelopment Authority, which

previously accommodated a small

community garden with raised planter

beds, although now features a

deteriorating vinyl fence along the

front property line, rutdded ground that

has been used for vehicular storage,

debris from the former community space,

general accumulation of litter, and some

mature trees along the southern property

line. The project site is bounded by

Market Street to the north, the property

at 1615 Market Street to the east, a

narrow grosser alley to the south, and

the property at 1603 Market Street to

the west. Uh, the plan bureau staff

recommends the request be approved with

the following conditions. Uh, the

applicant will receive approval of the

lock consolidation subdivision and land

development plan submitted submitted

concurrently

uh with the zoning relief application

and any departmental recommendations

and/or conditions of approval applied to

that review. Uh the applicant should

consider fencing in all or portions of

the rear yards or consider installing

fences and gates along the sides of the

end units to give residents more privacy

and security. Uh the planning bureau

staff recommends that the request be

approved for the following reasons. The

applicant has demonstrated that they

have met the burden for granting both

zoning relief requests. It provided a

lease for five spaces at a nearby uh

service parking lot if necessary. And

the requested variance is a minor

deviation that obiates more intensive

zoning relief regarding setback

encroachment and landscape screening

while providing secondary egress from

the rear yards in the event of an

emergency. The massing sighting and

design of the proposed row homes will

reflect the character of the

reflect the character of the surrounding

neighborhood providing compatible infill

development along a primary corridor

through the Allison Hill neighborhood.

Specifically, the planning bureau notes

the inclusion of front porches and oral

windows on the second floor matches many

of the other row homes on the block and

is a significant improvement over other

designs featuring flat facades. The

project will improve currently vacant

and overgrown lots with affordable units

that are pressing need in the

neighborhood specifically in the city

generally. And the project advances the

purpose of the RM zoning district

provided in chapter 7-305.4C 4C of the

zoning code as it provides a development

at medium densities that will not

adversely affect the stability of the

area and advances chapter 7-301.27

of the zoning code by protecting the

residential neighborhood providing

diverse housing opportunities.

>> Thank you. Just state your name

address in relationship to the project.

>> Sure. Uh my name is Zayn G. Uh I'm with

Integrated Consulting, the design

consultant for the applicant. We are

located at 430 North Front Street in

Warm Leburg.

>> Okay. You heard the staff report. Are

you acceptable to those conditions?

>> Yes.

>> Did you want to add anything or

>> uh none other than the fact this this

was this property was before you uh back

in April, I believe, as a multif family

proposal at that time. Since then,

obviously, there's been some changes in

in terms of what they think is

constructable within their uh their

budget for the project here. Um, but

ultimately I I think that this uh

approach actually fits the character of

that neighborhood a little bit better

with what's proposed now. Um, and you

know, they're committed to making a a

nice project out of a vacant lot here.

So, I appreciate the opportunity to be

back in front of you to present a

alternative approach to to this

property. Um, and I do have a rendering

on the back here to kind of give you an

idea. I think it was in your packet, but

um

um which you know in back and forth with

uh Jeffrey and and with the applicant um

we we believe we've come up with

something that provides a little more

exterior uh detail as a fit in with the

with the neighborhood than what was

previously proposed as well.

>> That's it.

Um, commissioners, I have no questions

at this time.

I think it's definitely better project

than it was before. Appreciate that.

>> So, I'll go to my commissioners and

their questions if it's time.

Commissioner McKenzie.

>> Uh, no questions. I think uh there

there's definitely an attempt here to be

um you know uh reflective of the

community knowing that you're dealing

with a budget and we know the finances

of that and uh uh hopefully if you if it

gets build it'll provide a value in that

area.

>> Thanks for letting me know.

>> Will these be rental town homes or will

they be for sale?

I believe they are.

I don't know if that's known at this

time. I have to check.

>> Yeah,

obviously.

>> What's that?

>> Yes. Yeah. So, I think there's supposed

to be fees simple at this point versus

the multif family was rental, but that

could, you know, it depends at the time

in which this actually goes through, you

know.

>> Okay.

Commissioner,

>> I don't think I have any questions. I

appreciate seeing an infill project and

um you know this this type of housing we

don't have a lot of new. So seeing

single family town homes is also a plus.

So

>> Commissioner Jordan,

>> no questions at this time.

>> Commissioner

No questions. Uh clever use of uh the

Rock Church for extra parking needs.

>> Okay, we'll come to the public. I'll

start in the middle.

>> As a public participant here, I just

I just like to answer Jame Jamie's

question. They are for sale at the first

time homeowners.

>> Yeah,

>> I got to know if you're for this project

again.

your name and address. There's no one

before left to my right to my left.

Okay, commissioners. Um, can I get a

motion?

>> I make a motion to approve uh with Do we

have any conditions in there?

>> Yeah,

>> there were two conditions. Okay,

>> is there a second?

>> Second.

>> It's been moved and second for approval

of the project with the two conditions.

All those in favor state by saying I. I.

>> I. Opposed

extensions on one of motion carried.

Good luck. Oh, we'll go to the next one.

>> Just for the record.

>> Yeah,

>> I'll just do it for

>> Okay.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah, there are different conditions.

So, um this aspect of the project um is

the land development component. Uh and

the applicant is proposing to

consolidate and resubdivide the various

lots comprising the project site into

four separate parcels on which four

attached row homes will be constructed

along with associated site improvements.

Each row home will have four bedrooms

and two and a half baths and feature

front porches and second floor oral

windows which reflect the architecture

of the surrounding blocks. Uh project

site is uh the same. Uh and uh the

planning bureau staff recommends the

request be approved with uh the

following conditions. Uh, the applicant

is required to receive a certificate of

qualification pursuant to chapter 12-101

of title 12, the affordable housing

certification prior to recording

recording the lock consolidation and

land development plan with the Dolphin

County Recorder of Deeds. If possible,

the applicant should consider building

designs with a zeroep entrance threshold

or other accommodation to ensure

visibility of the structures allowing

ADA access for residents and visitors.

Uh the applicant should consider

different divisions along the front

porches and the proposed fence panels

such as railings similar to those of the

to those along the front porches of the

porches front portions of the porches

which will contrast with the

architectural front facades and the

applicant should consider fencing in all

or portions of the rear yards or

consider installing fences and gates

along the sides of the end units to give

residents more privacy and security. Uh

the plan bureau staff recommends the

request be approved for the following

reasons. The project is in conformance

with the city's comprehensive plan and

has been designed to minimize the amount

of zoning relief necessary. Approval of

the project of the proposal will enhance

the character of the neighborhood and

improve the streetscape by developing

prominent and long-standing vacant lots,

installing street trees, constructing

compatible info development, and adding

to the neighborhood's housing inventory.

And the proposed project will contribute

to the city's need for affordable

housing by providing four new affordable

housing units in fourbedroom

configurations which will be certified

and maintained long-term as affordable

units. The proposed configurations

represent a size of unit that is in

higher demand throughout the city. And

finally, the project will enhance one of

the primary corridors in the Allison

Hill neighborhood, adding new residents

to the neighborhood, activating the

street and community on nights and

weekends, and growing the customer base

to support local businesses.

Are you acceptable of the three

conditions?

>> Yes. I I'd just comment on the ADA

testability portion. Um is one thing

we're just going to have to evaluate a

little further to see what's possible

here because obviously the alleyways are

pretty narrow to get back there and we

are providing landscaping in accordance

with the zoning ordinance on there. Um

and so and then the front is sort of

meant to be uh in line with what the

front elevations would be consistent

with the the side of the street.

So, it's something we'll have to discuss

a little bit further, maybe back and

forth with Jeff. That's the only one

that I wanted to just make kind of a

quick comment.

>> So, you'll be working with Jeff on that.

>> Yeah. And again, I would say that that

that uh condition is again more of a

recommendation. I don't know that we

have a requirement for ADA access.

Um, and to the applicant's point, um,

you probably can't get around in behind,

uh, to have like rear access and they

are trying to match the existing, uh,

architecture of the of the properties on

the block. I didn't know if there's a

way to, um, you know, maybe replace one

of those steps with a short ramp or if

there's ways to have, uh, maybe a um,

you know, a ramp you can move and

install to get in and out or something

like that. Um but you know again it was

more of a condition uh to again try and

uh enhance uh conformance with our

comprehensive plan which you know

generally recommends to make as many of

our housing units as ADVA accessible as

possible.

With that, I'll go to the public again.

Anyone in the middle?

I'll come back to the commissioners. And

this is really straightforward. And I'll

start

on a motion. I need a motion.

>> Yeah, I think we're there already.

>> Yeah.

>> So moved. Second

>> move conditions.

>> Second.

>> It's been moved a second with the three

conditions. All those in favor state by

saying I

>> oppose and abstension. One.

Motion. Car.

>> Thank you very much.

>> Would it have made it possibly been

easier to put that onto the special

exception for the special exception your

conditions? Uh, yeah. I mean, I'm just

saying I know you're thinking as one

project, but in terms of being able to

have more teeth to it,

>> right? Yeah. Um,

>> you know, I I struggle with that

sometimes because it's like, do you just

put all the conditions on one and and

tie them together or do you split them

up or how do you do it? And frankly, I

actually think it probably makes more

sense to have recommendations with a

zoning relief that address maybe aspects

of the zoning code like signage or

something and then have aspects of land

development plan that deal with more

physical

>> where we can do a little more

negotiating in return for the exception

where versus land development you're

kind of

>> correct

>> recommendations

major. Okay, this is item number six,

I think it is. Um, this is a special

application for 1909 North Front Street,

uh, which is zoned riverfront. It's

followed by David Butcher with WCI

Partners LP and it's to convert the

existing office building into a

multi-dwelling use in the Riverfront

District.

>> Uh, yes. So, the applicant is proposing

to construct a 60-unit multi- or family

dwelling use with associated site and

access improvements. The proposal

requires EHB approval of a special

exception for the proposed use for

section 7-305.7 of the zoning code.

Property at 1909 North Front Street is a

1.01 acre lot featuring a four-story

58,832

foot structure which was constructed

1983. Property is bounded by Delaware

Street to the north, a narrow public

right ofway uh to the east, Min Street

to the south, and North Front Street to

the west. This detached structure

features elements of a vernacular

mid-century architectural style.

Character defining features include the

brick foundation with concrete facade on

the upper floors, the main entrance uh

into a glass enclosed atrium, the modern

oral window projections on all four

elevations, the consistent fenestration

pattern, and the prominent cornice on

the western elevation. The main entrance

features a unique uh entrance vestibule

clad entirely in glass with a full view

sliding glass door projecting from a

four-story atrium. There are secondary

entrances around the building, most of

which are simple solid metal access

doors, although there is a full view

metal door flanked by a wide side light

on the side elevation which is accessed

by a simple concrete stoop. Fenistration

also includes consistent repetition of

five plate glass windows up the facade

extensions located around the building.

There are additional plate glass windows

interspersed throughout the facades on

the northern and southern elevations.

The most prominent aspect of the

building is the four-story atrium at the

main entrance which is clad on the

exterior with floor to ceiling windows

and is topped with a trapezoidal glass

box. Structure is otherwise topped with

a flat rubber roof. Although the Front

Street corridor is is defined by a mix

of building sizes, uses, and designs,

subject property represents significant

deviation and intrusion that contrasts

sharply with many of the nearby historic

structures and overall lacks much in the

way of architectural identity. As such,

the building contributes little to the

character of the streetscape and

neighborhood. The planning bureau staff

recommends the request be approved with

the following conditions. The applicant

will receive approval of the lot

consolidation and land development plan

submitted concurrently with the zoning

relief application and any departmental

recommendations and or conditions of

approval applied to that review. Plan

bureau staff recommends the request be

approved for the following reasons. By

adaptively reusing an office building

along the riverfront corridor through

conversion to residential units. The

project conforms to the goals,

objectives, and action items in the

comprehensive plan and the purpose of

the riverfront zoning district as

outlined in section 7-305.4G 4G of the

zoning code. Uh project site is located

in a mixeduse corridor with nearby

residential, commercial, and

institutional uses and there are only

minor proposed exterior changes to the

building and site and thus the proposed

multif family dwelling. You should not

have an adverse impact on the

neighborhood. Finally, the proposed

development will add new residents to

the neighborhood to activate the street

on nights and weekends and grow a

customer base to support local

businesses.

>> Thank you, Jeff. Could you state your

name, address, and relationship to the

project?

>> Sure. Uh Dave Butcher with WCI Partners.

Uh our address is 1900 North Second

Street. We are the developer for the

project.

>> Richard Gribble, architect by design

consultants, 1950 Market Street, Camp

Hill.

>> Um

I don't have any direct questions so

far, but just want to let everyone know

if we don't approve this, this is

because of the applicant, Dave Bler.

Don't put it in Don't put

up the recording.

Yeah, you gave to the city.

Now it's looks like a good project here.

Um, with that I have no questions and

I'll go to the commissioners

with questions concern.

>> No, I don't think I have any questions.

Is the building fully occupied? I don't

think I've ever seen it full. top uh

first three floors.

>> That upper floor is still voided up.

Yeah, they never I don't think it ever

filled up or if it did that's been a

long time ago,

>> right?

Yeah, it uh you know it's is a bit of an

intrusion but it's there already and it

does have a sense of the bays which is

fortunate which works well I think for

departments and I have to say I like the

fact that you have looked at the concept

of tenant amenities and storage and

things like that that we don't see in

many of these other things coming in uh

so to be commended on that so y that's

all

>> oh I have no questions

>> you forgot

I thought I left them out.

I thought I thought they were I had the

last two out and rolled up my sleeves

ready to go to work on day one.

>> Uh this was initially a nursing home.

Correct.

>> That's right.

>> All right. And 1983 has to be one of the

newest constructed buildings on Front

Street.

>> Um and I was outside with How many units

were we going to put in here?

>> 60.

>> 60. All right. Uh my only question is

for staff. Are we going to I guess

change the street to the immediate

north? Are we going to change the name

back to Delaware Street?

>> Uh well I think you're thinking of the

one to the south. Min street is called

like Hersha Drive or Hersha Street for

that stretch between Front and Second

Street.

>> I I I mean it's we still refer to it as

Min Street, not Hersa. So I would guess

you know whatever

>> supplementary signage is up there

probably will be taken down.

Avenue has a nice rain.

>> Yeah. No further questions.

>> Commissioner,

>> still no questions.

>> Um

I I think you know working with the

building this is this is a pretty nice

adaptive reuse of the space. Um like

Commissioner McKisick pointed out. Um

It looks like it's all onebedroom

apartments. Is that okay? So any inset

just that's what worked

>> for the

>> Yeah. Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you

off.

>> No, no, go ahead.

>> So yeah, that's what worked with the

layout. It's um very rational for plan

because of the way the window bays lay

out and the structural columns kind of

proceeded from there.

And then just from a market standpoint,

one bedroom seems to do really well.

Bedrooms just take a little longer,

harder.

>> Yeah, I remember you mentioned that.

What was that last month? Two months

ago. Well, when you were last in here

for a different multif family

conversion, you mentioned that you're

just seeing demand for one bedrooms over

anything else.

>> That's right.

>> And that's what's that's what's

occupying the most. So, it's

interesting. I this is just a general

comment has nothing to do with your

application but while we're we're seeing

obviously a lot of applications as of

late that are very residentialheavy

and a lot of multifamily conversions uh

across the whole city

>> which is interesting to me um if there's

demand you know that's great I just

wonder at what point do we look at our

development plans plans for the city and

say we need to make sure we're also

bringing in businesses and commercial

and providing commercial spaces.

>> Yeah. You know

>> where what's where's the line on

>> right?

>> I think you know I think for a lot of

these bigger buildings um especially

they represent a development paradigm

that is probably going by the wayside.

You have these bigger buildings that are

purpose-built for like an office or

something. Um and you know just with the

overall trend towards work from home. Um

and I think uh you know especially from

this with respect to the city um people

that are companies that are you know

still have campuses or something want

something out in the suburbs with like

surface parking that you know doesn't

quite work in the city here. So, um I

think it's it'd be I think preferable to

maybe use a first floor and have it

broken up for like small commercial or

something like that. Um I know a lot of

times and I've spoken with some

developers about this. Um

uh it can be difficult because it can be

difficult to find a viable commercial

tenant. Everybody's going to need a roof

over their head. They need a place to

live. They need uh a residential unit.

But um the needs of businesses can be a

little bit harder to project. And so

when I've spoken to some developers

about you know we'll think about a mix

especially with new construction more so

um we'll think about a first floor

residential or sorry a first floor

commercial space um you know uh they'll

just say we'll look into it uh but it's

very hard for us to I think um

project what that income stream is going

to look like for them as they're

financing. I know one of the places this

came up was uh the Moulder Square

apartments, those like 50 units that um

were spread out across three sites up

there and you know that was all new

build and we said you know it'd be great

if to have a laundromat or you know

something uh there and they just said

it's really hard for us to find tenants

uh for these spaces because you have to

have somebody with a viable business

plan and it may that spacer may may

remain vacant for a year or 18 months or

something like that. that's very

difficult for them to do when they're

trying to again I think plan out you

know their revenue streams and stuff

like that. Um I think it's maybe more it

might actually be more viable in these

types of uh businesses or these types of

buildings. Um but the other thing is

they only have one real entrance to the

uh to the building. So, it'd almost be

like you'd have to go into this mixed

space with the residential, you know,

the res uh the residents and then go

into these places and they wouldn't have

that direct access to the public

outside. And so,

>> I I think it's it it'd be great if these

buildings had originally been

constructed with more access points into

them and, you know, they just weren't.

And so it's more of a how do we adapt

this floor plan that was didn't at all I

don't think think consider what a

residential use for this building would

be to a to whatever its future is. So um

yeah I mean I I think it's it's easier

from I think a um construction

standpoint to do it in new construction

but I think the financing makes that

more difficult almost. So it's kind of

like these two things are odd,

>> right? From a developer standpoint, I

completely understand that appro logic

and and approach. I conversely just

think about a city's economic

development standpoint and at what point

does the city look at

is it chicken egg, right? I I from a

developer standpoint, I completely

understand

>> you would want to have a a tenant ready,

right, to move into that space.

>> What happens when commercial businesses

want to come into the city but don't

have a space to occupy? Um what you

know,

but maybe that's not happening right now

in the city. Would we like that to

happen at some point? you know, and and

what are we doing to to to sort of build

that foundation or create that

enticement, right, to bring commercial

businesses in. Um, and again, for this

specific property, I completely agree

like this is not feasible to have a a

first floor, you know, commercial spaces

or things like that. Maybe I should have

saved my question for the next applicant

application. But but so for this doesn't

it this is more just a general

observation as we're seeing over the

last several months this influx of a lot

of multifamily conversions.

>> Well, and I think for better or worse,

uh we do have like the sixth and seventh

street corridors that are largely

vacant. Um so that's a new development

and um uh with a new Mccclelay Street

Bridge that'll be coming in uh that is

me, you know, intended to kind of uh

help traffic flow uh through that uh

area. Um you know, there are

opportunities if somebody's coming in to

look in for new build. I think probably

less so to your point if they're wanting

to just take it over an office space. Um

but uh you know, I think that'd be a

good problem to have.

>> Sure. Yeah. Agreed. Agreed. would be uh

that's it. That's all my ponderings for

the night.

>> Uh yes. Um start off with uh Jeffrey. Uh

I don't want to bounce between this one

and the land development just to cover

everything. Um I guess for starters

where it says that there's no section on

the land development plan for the

application to consider compliance with

the city comp plan.

>> Yeah.

>> Is that something maybe we could change

in the future? I feel like, you know, it

would be good for the applicant to, you

know, be considering the comp plan in

their proposals.

>> I have a draft template that's in the

works that's been in the works for like

nine months of like updating all of our

applications. It's been it's been mostly

putting out fires this year. So, um

hopefully as we get toward the end of

the year here, we get a bit more time.

Uh it is my intention to update all of

our applications like we did with the

very special exception one. um and uh

include things like that. Make a

notation if the units are for rental or

for sale um things like that. So um

yeah, we are it's definitely on our

radar and uh we will be including it in

our updated applications.

>> Okay. And then um the other thing I had

was um in the land development plan I

noticed you you said that there should

be well they should consider an enclosed

dumpster pad if it won't um affect the I

guess for DPW. Is is um should that have

been a condition or is that just more of

a general statement?

>> I'd say it's more of a general statement

at this point because they are the

building already does have a dumpster

pad. Um it's a little bit different than

if you're doing new construction or

significantly increasing the intensity

of what you would develop. They have a

dumpster pad out in the back there. Uh

it's not enclosed or anything and

obviously that's a non-conforming aspect

of the site. Um it would be preferable

to have that there. I think maybe just

for the tenants own, you know, benefit

so they're not just like having to see

that and uh maybe they're able to

enclose it to kind of keep that

visibility down. Gotcha. And the only

other thing I have is for you gentlemen,

I was looking over the plants. Um am I

overlooking the laundry facilities?

>> Um each unit would have a laundry

closet. It's hard to see. You're not

overlooking. It's just our drawings are

small.

>> Okay.

But it's a it's a closet. It um

>> is like a stackable

>> stackable. Okay. Y

it doesn't call it out.

>> But it is

>> all right.

>> Um and I I do um with respect to the uh

dumpster pad we do once

>> but for the reasons.

>> Yeah.

>> Just aesthetics.

Sounds good. Thank you.

>> Good questions.

Uh, Commissioner Vincent.

>> Yeah. No, no questions for the

applicant. I think that's good. This

might be along the same lines that was

just asked, but are do we are we

proactively thinking about how we're

tracking projects that are achieving

these objectives so that we have some

type of reporting that maybe we can even

provide to city council, you know, once

a year. this many projects

>> were approved due to adaptive reuse.

That way when we do hit like, hey, this

many we have this many housing unit,

this is our goal. We should we now need

to look at balancing somewhere else.

>> Yeah, I actually do have an Excel

spreadsheet that I reference as I'm

going through the reviews of the land

development plans that has each goal,

objective, and action on it. and it has

columns beside it,

you know, from like 2020, you know, out

to like 2035 or something where uh it

was my goal to um try and populate that

uh to make sure that we're doing it. And

maybe it's sparsely populated, maybe

it's well populated, you know, that

we're not getting a lot of projects of

something or we're not doing something

or maybe we're doing a lot of something.

So, I have that template down. Um it's

just, you know, getting in and and

filling that out. It might not just be

my department. It might be public

safety. It might be the city arborist.

It might be other departments. So have

the have the template down. It's just a

matter of like

>> staff constraints, time restraints.

>> Yep. Yep.

>> So um but uh yeah, again, that's that's

one of the big things on my radar here

toward the end of the year um to take

advantage of uh that uh the month off in

December uh to start going back and

revisiting them.

Okay, we'll go to the public. The last

two

people are still here.

If you have any

concerns or questions with this project,

please stand and state your name.

commissioners

appears to be a good project and like

everybody said this will probably fill

the that building. It'll be useful

because people need places to stay now.

So that uh could I get a motion?

>> Now this is the special exception we're

doing first.

>> Uh this is just the special exception.

>> Okay.

>> I make a motion to approve with the

condition as noted.

>> Okay. Is there a second?

>> Second.

>> Moved and second for approval of this uh

project with the one condition. All

those in favor state say I.

>> I

have such

right.

>> Makes it a lot easier.

Okay. Oh, motion carried. Sorry about

that. And now we'll go to the next one

which is the land development plan.

Um if we can

>> Yeah. So the applicant is just proposing

to convert the existing office building

into a multif family building with 60

units. Uh the planning bureau staff

recommends the request be approved with

the following conditions. Uh the

applicant should remove the middle curb

cut driveway on Domin Street and replace

it with curbing sidewalk and landscaping

uh to remove an unnecessary pedestrian

vehicular access point. Um it looks like

that at one point was a loading dock

where I'm guessing you'd have trucks

back up to that. Uh which I imagine

would not be necessary um under the

proposed reuse. Uh and then the bureau

also recommends installing a direct

pedestrian connection from the um

building entrance to the front street

sidewalk which is differentiated through

physical features such as brick stamp

concrete or raised walkway through the

parking lot. Um and then that would, you

know, better connect um better connect

the uh the building to uh the front

street and to Riverfront Park so that uh

anybody walking through um or visiting

the property would not have to walk

through the vehicular driveway access

points um which is, you know, an issue

we brought up before in the past, having

uh dedicated uh pedestrian access

points. Um, the planning bureau

recommends the applicant replace the

tenant storage closet closest to the

main elevator with a bike storage room

for residents or their guests who do not

drive. Uh, due to the building's

footprint within the AE flood plane,

100-year flood plane, any investment

into the building or new installations

on the property will require conformance

with the city's flood plane ordinance,

and the applicant should continue

coordination with the flood plane

administrator regarding the application

of these regulations to the subject

property. Uh we've already been in

conversation with the applicant uh

regarding the configuration of the

building and its relationship to the

100red-year flood plane. Um it's

generally built out uh of the flood

plane. Um but there is a small

mechanical room um that is below the

base flood elevation which we need to

confirm exactly with FEMA um what that

does to the uh to the property and and

what requirements it imposes on them. So

um that's pretty much the only real um I

think uh snag uh with respect to the

building itself. Uh, and then finally,

any proposed exterior alterations to the

building or site must be coordinated

with the city's historic preservation

specialist, and if necessary, must

receive HARB approval of a certificate

of appropriateness application. Plain

Bio staff recommends the request be

approved for the following reasons. The

adaptive reuse of vacant and

underutilized office spaces and new

apartment buildings is a long-term trend

within the city, and the project

presents a reasonable proposal to offset

the loss of a commercial tenant and meet

the increasing demand for housing

through the provision of new units. The

project site is located along the

mixeduse riverfront or the mixeduse

front street corridor and other

conversions of former office buildings

have demonstrated the proposed use does

not adversely impact the character of

the neighborhood. And the project will

address the primary concern of such

conversions through the provision of

sufficient off- streetet parking to meet

the demand from new tenants and their

guests. And finally, the proposed reuse

will add residents to the neighborhood

to activate the street on nights and

weekends and grow a customer base to

support local businesses and will

provide additional units to the downtown

housing midtown housing in inventory.

>> Uh Dave, you're acceptable condition?

>> Yes.

>> Okay, with that straightforward, could

we get a motion?

>> Motion to approve with exception. And is

there a second?

It's been moved a second for approval of

the project with the three conditions.

All those in favor state by saying I

>> opposed.

Good luck.

>> Thank you.

>> Yeah.

Item number eight, this is a land

development plan for 333 Barker Street

and zone downtown center is followed by

Brad Jones with Paris Town Development

Development Corporation. It's to convert

the vacant office space on floors 11

through 19 to 81 residential units with

one and two bedroom configurations.

Uh, yep. So, the applicant proposes to

convert vacant office space on floors 11

through 19 into 81 residential units

with one and two bedroom configurations.

The project incl uh the units range in

size from 828 ft to,25

ft. The property at 333 Market Street is

a 8 acre lot featuring a 22tory

257,615T

structure which was constructed 1979.

The property is bounded by Marcus Street

to the north, the properties at 335

Marcus Street, and three unadressed

partial unadressed parcels to the east,

Blackberry Street to the south, and the

property at 321 Marcus Street to the

west. This attached structure features

elements of mid-century architectural

style. Character defining features

include the expansive two-story entryway

on Market Street extending through the

block to North Fourth Street and

Blackberry Street, which features large

support columns and two escalators. The

large wraparound storefront stretching

from Market Street through the entrance

area featuring Florida to ceiling

windows and large blue awnings

sheltering the sidewalk. The large

balcony on the second story above the

retail shops, the concrete panels with

vertical decoration comprising the

facade. The substantial setback of the

upper floors and the consistent

fenestration pattern. Although there are

various access points around the

building, the main entrance to the

office tower is located on the second

floor and not visible from the public

right of way. Entrances to the

commercial spaces on the first floor are

recessed and feature full view metal

doors topped with large transoms and

flanked by storefront windows.

Penistration on the lower floors is

varied, but the upper floors feature

horizontal ribbons of plate glass metal

windows. The structure is topped with a

flat roof of varying elevations that

appears to feature gravel and pavers.

The structure is the tallest building in

Harrisburg with a massyration pattern

similar to that of other modern

buildings downtown, but it does feature

unique architectural elements like the

large entrance arcade, curved

storefront, and concrete facade panels.

As such, the property contributes

minimally to the architectural character

of the neighborhood.

The planning bureau staff recommends the

request be approved with the following

conditions. The applicant should install

a secured bike corral or bike storage

area in the sheltered entryway to

accommodate non-automotive trips by

residents and their guests as the modal

shift for trips to and from the property

will likely shift as a result of the

conversion from offices to residential

units. And the applicant should consider

landscaping options to soften the

building's exterior and improve the

aesthetics such as additional planters,

green/ living walls, andor green roofs.

The planning bureau staff recommends a

request be approved for the following

reasons. The project proposes the

construction of one and twobedroom units

in sizes larger than proposed for other

similar office to conver residential

conversions in downtown. The adaptive

reuse of vacant and underutilized office

spaces into apartment buildings is a

long-term trend for downtown Harrisburg

and necessary to enhance the the

vitality of the neighborhood and the

market street corridor. Other

conversions of former office buildings

in the surrounding neighborhood have

demonstrated the proposed use will not

adversely impact the character of the

neighborhood. And the project will help

maintain the viability of a large

structure endangered by the threat of

extended vacancy. And finally, the

proposed reuse will add new residents to

the neighborhood to activate the street

on nights and weekends and grow customer

base to support local businesses and

will provide additional units to the

downtown housing inventory.

>> Thank you, Jeff. Could you state your

names, addresses, and relationship to

the project?

>> Hi, good evening. Brad Jones um with the

Harristown Development Corporation at

320 Market Street.

>> Richard Gribble, architect design

consultants, 1950 Market Street.

>> Okay. Uh gentlemen heard the staff

report with the two conditions. You're

acceptable with those conditions.

>> Y

I don't have any questions. I think it's

pretty straightforward here, but we'll

go to the commissioners with their

concerns or questions. Commissioner

McKenzie,

>> I don't have specific questions. I I

think the structural bay gives you

opportunities for a little bit larger

units than what we are seeing in some

other projects at like,00 square feet if

my eyes aren't going too bad here, which

is nice. I mean, we don't have that in

the mix here. So, uh, now your parking,

what would that be? 333,

uh, garage is more than adequate to

support any need that's in here, even

though I don't believe parking is

required in that zoning district. But,

>> yeah, there's almost,00 parking spaces

in that garage,

>> which lightly occupied

>> anymore. I remember when that was fired

up and running.

>> It's full.

>> Yeah.

>> Yep. Over full.

>> Yeah. What happens to the escalator? I

missed I've stepped out.

>> What happens to the escalator?

>> Yeah.

>> Uh the escalator was replaced uh about

five years ago. So it's relatively new

>> and in good working order.

>> I remember that was the always treat was

would it work or wouldn't it work when

we went to the building for 25 years

>> because it's outside

>> but it feels like it's inside. It's kind

of an odd architecture

kind of grind up some

>> nothing else. Thank you.

>> Uh does the redevelopment authority

currently own the building?

>> That is correct. Um we are we have a an

option to acquire which we are are

working with the redevelopment authority

to acquire the building. Um and that

will occur between now and the end of

the year.

>> All right. kind of following up on

Commissioner Merrick's previous

comments. Uh

yeah, for the last four or five years,

we've been bringing I mean converting a

lot of old uh office buildings and uh

into residential and yet if you walk up

Second Street right now, you you won't

find six or seven people in any of the

restaurants. Have you Have you guys done

any like market research to I've been

led to believe it's like a a Gen Z

millennial issue that they just No,

seriously.

>> Yeah. What is it? They sit at home and

get Uber Eats and watch porn instead on

the computer instead of going out and

trying to meet girls. I mean, no,

seriously. No, no, no. I mean,

>> so so um I mean the good news is and I I

think this is really good news is that

there's a lot of conversions coming

through here because we have a lot we

have a million square feet of vacant

office space in the downtown

at least a million might be conservative

and I have a

that I keep these are all dots on the

map in the downtown projects that need

to be done probably maybe use right so I

mean it's a big list and

your question about you know we need

more people right we need more more

people period and you know with these

buildings mostly vacant or completely

vacant like 333 market you're going to

need to you're going to slowly build up

critical mass of residents in the

downtown it is going to take

and and you know the office workers are

better and busier more visibly seen

customers during the day than the

residents are. I mean I've just noticed

that in my you know as we look at our

own buildings that we've converted you

know they're just not as active and it

may be that people are staying inside um

more but uh I think it's going to take

time to build that capacity to but but I

think you're going to in the next, I

think, three to five years that

gradually these buildings as they fill

up, you're going to see more small

businesses thrive off of their, you

know, customer base.

>> Yeah. I just thought by now at least

we'd see like a little bit of retail,

like a bodega at least, but just in the

100 block of Pine Street.

>> Yeah, we're getting crushed on retail.

Um, I mean, we've lost uh, you know, we

lost a liquor store the lack of foot

traffic. U, you know, we lost right aid

through bankruptcy, but it was probably

closed due to the lack of traffic. Um,

you know, we're it's going to be a

little bumpy for a while, but we're

these are going to really help, but it's

going to take time.

>> One thing it does beg the question, what

happens on the floors below at this

point?

>> What's your thought process for those?

Do you have

>> on the floors below at 333?

>> Yeah.

>> Uh, well, we have, you know, we I think

the liquor store is a a very viable

retail space. So,

>> you're starting at the 11th floor,

right? Isn't

>> this is we look at

through 11. Are you reserving those for

>> We're going to reserve those for office.

>> Yes. So, it would be this would be a

pretty unusual stack. You know, you have

basically half the building in office

and half in, you know, it's a strange

building. You got street level, which is

where the retail is. And we, you know,

we have the city's largest retailer

right now, which is DTLR.

There's a bunch of retail left. That is

the largest retail probably in in the

downtown.

And then, you know, we have another good

shell with liquor store, which I think

will be is a viable um alternative,

especially if we fill the building. The

building, you know, held 3,000 people.

There's 50 people coming.

>> Yeah.

John, for a question for you, maybe I

should know this answer, but I don't.

um relative to the issues that we have

dealt with with parking because this is

a change of use. Are we clean and clear

of anything to do with S+ and Feda and

everybody else relative to using those

bases?

>> So I I don't know how that necessarily

works again because um

>> are they going to come sweeping in?

>> So I I called I called the asset manager

today uh to ask that question and we're

good. So, you know, there's plenty of

spaces for this use, right? And of

course, at the rate that the city, you

know, the SP

>> if you read the agreement until they are

adequately full in their mind, whatever

that means.

>> Yeah.

>> Supposedly, we're supposed to look at

disdain on any other uses or

transitions.

>> They'd be thrilled if if if we went to

them and said, "Can we have, you know,

80 to 100 spaces?" Right

>> now, the other piece, I mean, there is a

residential program

you know, residents can get a discounted

rate, but it's, you know, got some

>> got some goofy things.

>> It's got some goofy things with those

five incidentals a month. So, you can't

move your car between nine and four,

>> you know, which is kind of crazy, right?

>> So, there's

>> that's kind of a sleeves out of the

vest,

it looks good, but when you look at it,

>> you're in a unique position. You have

the parking as long as they don't raise

a situation.

I figured you were on top of that

already.

>> If I could respond to your question

about the offices,

>> there's two separate uh elevator uh

sherps

are on their own elevators.

>> Yeah, there's there's 11 elevators in

the building. There's a high bank and

they're built it was built almost like

the World Trade Center. It's got like a

high bank of elevators and a low bank

and a freight elevator.

>> So you could keep the the office,

>> you know, separated by

>> as long as you when you when you start

looking at the cost of rebuilding those

elevators to current.

>> I'm sure they haven't been well

maintained.

>> Yeah, we we are underway with a full

elevator modernization. Those are

original 1979 elevators. Uh all 11 need

to be remodernized.

>> It's probably a $10 million project.

say all half million.

>> So, we're starting on the low bank and

we're going to work our way up.

>> The other thing about this building, I

think that maybe Jeffrey mentioned the

the windows are uh very unique in this

building where you have a you have a a

vertical piece that then turns into a

horizontal piece. And obviously, we're

not changing any of that. That's kind of

a unique feature that I haven't really

seen. You look down through the window,

right? I mean, through through the glass

of the bottom, which is like the the

seal.

>> It's very strange.

>> Yeah. And and both this project and the

previous project, they both have killer

views. I mean, views across the river or

the views across the whole entire city

from the top floor.

>> The views are stunning from almost every

floor above 10.

>> It's it's almost like, you know, it's a

waste that these spaces are sitting

there empty.

So, I mean, you have all this beautiful,

you know,

the views are amazing.

>> I'm just feel

[Laughter]

down at the old what's Crown Plaza? We

come to town and look out the back

window and watch the steel coming up.

Back then when you're a young kid, you

want to be an architect. That was the

coolest thing you ever saw when I came

to the county with the tallest building

was four stories.

>> It's my turn.

>> Along the same lines of some of the

earlier uh comments, HDC has done a lot

of conversions downtown. Uh what's your

current occupancy rate?

>> Uh we're running about 95%.

>> Really?

>> Yeah. The res market is is pretty hot

still here. We'll leave a few stubborn

vacancies here and there, but

>> but for the most part, the good news is

people want to live in the city.

>> It's great, right? I mean, so

>> I hope it continues because kind of the

one sector

>> we really needed to continue to work.

>> Okay.

>> But I think it will.

>> Okay, that was it for me.

>> I have one very important question. Do

the tenants get to use the escalators?

>> The Yeah, of course they do. You bet.

>> Okay, great.

>> Yeah,

>> I'm sold.

>> Yeah. No,

>> we're in the middle.

>> I didn't I I would I didn't know if

because right like you said those

escalators like they start outside, they

kind of take you into like that middle

open floor and I didn't know if those

were exclusive to the office. I should

come over for

>> I didn't know if they were exclusive to

the office spaces over there. You have

to go up the escalator to get to get to

the lobby and then get in the elevator.

>> It's street then lobby and one

>> through 19.

>> Okay.

>> Very strange numbering system.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So they get to use these

escalators. No, I I I mean I think Yeah.

It's great that you're filling in this

these spaces and you know given the

location too, right? I mean, you have

Harrisburg University and and other

business that influx, right? Right. It

makes a lot of sense. Are you does

Harrisburg University provide student

housing or are you working with them to

sort of help students have a housing

accommodations?

>> Uh we are. Yes. Um, we have some they're

leasing some of our housing for their

students and then they have some

students at Pennsylvania Place and then

at 335 the old Governor Hotel right next

>> at least we know where to find now

>> Commissioner Jordan.

>> Yes. Um the only question I had was the

entrance on Fourth Street is said it's

being reconstructed as a switchback

design. Is that going to be ramp or

stairs?

>> It's a stair. It's a new stair. Uh the

old stair was, you know, needed to be

reconstructed and we designed a new

stair that makes so that you can see the

stair from from the market street side.

The old stair was kind of oddly designed

and falling apart. So, we're in the

middle of about a $3 million facelift

for the stair and the upper walkway and

the facade of that.

>> So, if somebody had like device, how

would they access the building?

>> So, the there's an ADA

elevator off the back.

>> Okay. That would be cool.

>> Thank you.

>> Could I also add you know you're in the

parking garage. In the parking garage,

you come right into an elevator lobby.

So, if you drove in, you're even up to

that second walkway level. Once you

would come out of your car, you're right

at an elevator lobby stairs or can get

you into that lobby level that can take

you to the office or to

>> Thank you,

Commissioner Vincent.

>> Um, no questions, but just like everyone

else, I I was just walking by this

property maybe a few weeks ago and you

know I know within the application you

know you you mentioned that the liquor

the wine and liquor store closed and I'm

always wondering I was just wondering

what we were doing with that space. So

looking for a spring purpose.

>> Yep. You know anybody send them our way.

>> All right.

>> Yes.

Think it's a great space.

My question is, is that um is it WPTV or

one of those stations? Are they still

located?

>> Yes, sir. Yep. Just renewed their lease.

>> They're building their space over in

Keystone building.

>> Yeah. They've been there since like

1980.

>> Okay. With that, since there's only one

person in public,

you get this project.

Just can't find anything better to do on

a

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, it's pretty bad to be here.

>> You got him out of his apartment, right?

He came out, right?

>> There we go. We got one.

>> Okay. With that, as we know, this is

pretty straightforward. Can I get a

motion?

>> Motion to approve with conditions.