Harrisburg City Zoning Hearing Board Meeting - 3/21/2025

engineering

board. Um,

yeah. Okay. Call me water. My name is

Clark Cooks. I'm the chair of the zoning

board. I didn't understand this.

Just so

And on what we have remotely, Mr. James

Hobs. Okay.

Um to my left is our uh sitter for

zoning hearing board for Michael Connor

and Mike Hos. Hi Kosh. Okay.

Um for the uh for the city but I think

is uh the director of planning. Okay.

Jeffrey Knight and representative from

the solic uh city law department.

Thank you. Okay.

Um please this is u where someone

hearing board is a form award. Okay. We

have a transcript from this meeting will

be is being created by by our recorder

quarter. Sony hearing court functions

like a court of law hearing court's

decision based off of facts and law not

popularity or unpopularity of a project

for what seems to be to the board a good

or bad project. In other words,

applicants must meet a legal burden of

proof that proves the elements of the

variance or special exceptions is being

requested. Okay.

uh people in the audience who are going

to speak on the project they will take

the mic and make they give their name

and address and everybody here will give

their name and address. Okay. If there's

people speaking for the project u

formally the attendants name and address

and basically your proximity to the

location question.

Okay. With that I'm going to turn

to Okay. Um thank you Mr. Fipps. Um

um so this evening um as uh the chairman

indicated um we have uh two members. Um

Bob Fipps is the chair and um on the

phone uh we have James Hobbs who's also

a member of this board. And

unfortunately Mr. Hobbs is traveling. He

had a uh funeral to go to out of town.

Uh so what we're going to do is um we're

gonna have since we have a quorum

present um one here and one on the phone

uh we're going to take some steps to

appoint the chairman to be the hearing

officer in this matter to hear this

matter um in the absence of um Mr. Hops

because he's going to have to um leave

this call uh as he's traveling. Um, I

just want to uh indicate uh prior to

doing that that uh we did have an item

on old business. Uh it was uh item

number 2598. It was a special exception

application for

2931 North Front Street. Um we did

receive correspondence from the

applicant's attorney on that matter that

that matter is being withdrawn. Uh so

there's no action uh to take on that uh

as uh as the matter has been withdrawn.

So, um, Mr. Hobbes and and Mr. uh, Pips,

um, what we need to do is, uh, appoint,

um, Claude Pips to be the hearing

officer for the remaining, uh, items on

new business, which is application 2599,

2600, and 2601.

Um, and as a hearing officer, um, uh,

the municipality's planning code allows,

uh, if there's an appointment of a

hearing officer, the hearing officer to

conduct a hearing and make a decision on

this matter. Uh, so with that being

said, um, is there a motion to appoint

um, the chairman, Mr. Fipps to be the

hearing officer with respect to

applications

2599 which is 236 North North 2nd

Street,

2600 which is 234 North 2nd Street and

2601

uh for 1605 1613 Market Street.

Mr. Would you? Yes, I make a motion.

Okay. U and then uh is there a second?

I'll second. Second it. All those in

favor signify by saying I. I.

Okay. The motion passes. Um so um at

this point in time for the

uh applicants here uh we're

have chairman officer this matter

um normal this is a threeperson board

there's only two right now be another

one uh another member um appointed but

that hasn't happened yet um so given the

circumstances this

Uh so with that being said, Mr. Hags, uh

thank you uh thank you very much for

being able to

participate establish.

Okay.

All right. Thank you.

So since I'll be hearing it, do you have

any the so you have any issues with

these standing by myself.

Eric Hume, I'm the attorney for the

applicant on uh 2599 and 2600. Uh we

have no objection to you, Mr. Fips,

acting as the hearing officer and

running your visit. Okay. Thank you. So

now I'll turn this back over to the

solicitor and you can call the first

case. Okay. So, the first

case located at 236

uh North Second Street uh in Harrisburg,

Pennsylvania. And so, uh we have here uh

with us uh this evening um Eric Hume uh

who is the uh attorney representing the

applicant. Uh Mr. Hume, do you have uh

anybody that you receive calling

something like this? If so, we'll have

swear in so take care of that. Yes. Uh

we have three individuals that I think

would should be sworn in if necessary

for testimony. On the first is um Craig

Dunl who's immediately to my right. He

is one of the principles of the

applicant. Uh to his right is Justin

Browning who's another one of the

principles for the applicant. And then

also Justin Hershey is providing uh

consultation services for um sound

engineering on the projects.

Um Mr. Mr. Browning, Mr. Hershey are the

three. Yes. Um

Mr. Um all three of you, could you raise

your right

hand? Do you swear or affirm that the

testimony you're about to give before

this board is truth and nothing but the

truth?

Let the record reflect that all three

answered the truth. Um and then for the

city um placing bureau um Mr. Knight,

you swear affirm the testimony you're

about to give before this board is the

truth and nothing but the truth. I do.

Um for expediency sake Mr. Hume if

you're okay I have the board exhibits

that were submitted I can identify as

exhibits. Yes. Proceed that way. Is that

okay if I do that and then you can have

your own exhibits? Yes that's fine.

Yeah. So uh for this uh

application uh which is the application

for 236 North Front Street. It's

application number 2599.

the following exhibits that uh were

received by the board by the zone

hearing board previous to this meeting

as part of the application process. I

mark this board exhibit number one B1

proof of publication time and place of

particular nature of this matter was

advertised in the Patriot news.

Publication occurred on April 6th and

April 13,

2025.

Um and uh so that's uh exhibit B1.

Exhibit B2 is a letter dated April 17,

2025. Uh this letter was sent from the

planning director uh Jeffrey Knight to

the applicant notifying the applicant of

the time and place of the hearing. Board

exhibit number three is the hearing

notice which was posted upon the

property in question and that occurred

on March 26,

2025. Board exhibit number four, the

the applicant's notification letters to

required neighbors. Uh board exhibit

number five is the application

uh packet uh including a dwelling

unit 500 foot buffer map. Board exhibit

number six is the deed establishing the

applicant standing to pursue zoning

relief in this matter. Board exhibit

number seven is the planning bureau case

report.

Uh board exhibit number eight is a city

of Harrisburg planning commission

resolution. Board exhibit nine which

came in with the application was an

email exchange between the applicant

and relating

similar request back.

So we have warnings one and nine in this

matter. And with that being said,

um Mr.

Knight, you want to it's up to you if

you want to give a synopsis or have the

applicant.

Um sure, I'll provide a a brief

synopsis. Um so uh essentially the uh

zoning relief being requested for both

this one and then the related case for

234 North Second Street uh are uh the

establishment of nightclub and or dance

hall or for dance hall uses uh at both

properties. Um so a variance is required

for that uh for properties located in

the commercial neighborhood zoning

district. Uh and per the specific

criteria um such uses are not permitted

within 500 ft of a dwelling unit. Uh so

um as the applicants uh do note in their

application and kind of spelled out a

little bit more in uh detail uh in the

case report uh the property has been

used uh for live music events uh in the

past um in uh researching the history of

properties particularly as they as they

um apply to um non-conforming uses. uh

you know we often times uh coordinate

with our tax and enforcement office as

they're the ones that manage uh the

city's mercantile permit applications as

well as the amusement tax uh which is

kind of specific to this type of

particular use uh because that is what

is collected for live music events. So

that helps to establish that live music

are occurring live music is occurring on

a property um and if that's a continual

record through time uh that would be the

continuence of legal non-conforming use.

However, if that's interrupted uh for um

a year and uh uh which is considered

abandonment of that particular use, um

then the property must be brought back

into conformance with the zoning code if

somebody seeks to do that use. Uh in

speaking with our tax enforcement

office, um it appears that amusement tax

wasn't filed uh post 2014 uh when a

former business on site which had a

comedy club aspect to it uh closed. Um

and then in 2023 when the applicants

were um establishing the business on

site that's what the communication was

for in uh in the packet uh was basically

discussing this the applicants had filed

uh for the variance and then withdrew

that at the at the time before it was

heard at the March 2023 meetings um in

order to get the restaurant up and

running um and then sometime in the uh

intervening time uh some live music did

start up. So this we can say this is

kind of an after the-act application uh

to address this. Uh now with respect to

the um conditions of um the variance

criteria uh you know it's evident that

the property was previously operating uh

as live music. Um the property itself is

located in the downtown area uh where

you know other live music events are

held whether that's uh nearby at Sawyers

or um some of the larger bars up and

down this stretch of Second Street or

even uh in the past for city festivals

or kind of in the post-pandemic years

when we were doing um concerts in the

middle of Second Street. They would shut

down Second Street. Uh so the building

itself um is certainly designed to

accommodate uh live music. uh live music

is um occurring elsewhere in the

downtown area. Uh and so we feel that

the property itself um you know does

have a justification for this and I

think the applicants will discuss some

of the soundproofing measures they're

going to take um to you know help ensure

that uh any impacts are limited to the

building. uh with respect to the 500

foot uh buffer around um such uses uh

that's why we included that buffer map

that was actually developed I think in

2022 or 2021 for um another uh such use

and uh in that when we were uh

recommending uh support for that one we

provided that we developed that buffer

map uh to basically demonstrate that

there almost is no place in downtown

Harrisburg uh where you would be able to

have one of these even in properties in

which this use would be permitted by

rights such as the downtown center. Uh

we had larger one for uh the whole city

and it showed essentially the same

thing. Uh the downtown map just shows

like the cap state capital and like the

UPMC campus being the only places you

could have one of these that were not

within uh 500 ft. Uh and then the larger

map shows basically the camera street

industrial corridor as being like the

only place you could have these. Uh, and

I would note too in the development of

that map, I believe we used multif

family dwellings as a proxy for um,

dwelling units. Uh, so, you know, we

weren't always sure whether there was an

apartment over a store in a mixeduse

building or something. So, that might

not even be everything. And of course,

it's a few years out of date. But the

intent of that map is to basically

demonstrate that um you know the zoning

regulations themselves like would

preclude this type of use which is

frankly a you know not uncommon use in

cities uh from occurring anywhere by

right within uh the downtown where it

would otherwise be permitted by right uh

per the underlying zoning. Uh so for uh

the those reasons uh we feel that both

uh the site and the building um do uh

possess aspects and conditions that

justify the variance requests. Um and

with that being said, the planning

commission recommended the zoning

hearing board approved the request with

the following conditions. Uh prior to

the zoning hearing board meeting, the

applicant must host a community

engagement session with residents within

500 ft to discuss the proposal, answer

questions, and solicit support. And I

believe uh the applicants did host that

meeting uh on April 16th. Uh so they

have met that condition. And then prior

to the zoning hearing board meeting, the

applicant should provide documentation

regarding proposed soundproofing

measures planned for the building. Uh

the applicants uh expert testimony at

the planning commission meeting from Mr.

Hershey uh did demonstrate uh that they

will be, you know, meeting those

uh meeting the general standards for

soundproofing buildings of this type. Uh

the planning commission recommended the

zoning hearing board approved the

request for the following reasons.

Although the nightclub or dance hall use

requested by the applicant has not been

operating on site for at least several

years as determined through review of

all resources available to the planning

bureau. Such use did previously operate

on site under multiple different

businesses establishing a history of

such use that supports its

reestablishment. As the applicant notes,

the building in which the proposed use

will be reestablished is is of sturdy

concrete and brickmasonry construction

which provides natural soundproofing and

features an open floor plan that

supports a music venue. Uh and finally,

with respect to the relief from the

specific criteria regarding proximity to

the nearby residential units, planning

bureau notes that the existing

regulation would effectively preclude

the establishment of nightclub or dance

hall uses anywhere in the city,

including in the downtown center zoning

district in which the use is permitted

by right.

Thank you, Mr. tonight. Um, is there I

failed to ask. Is there anybody in

attendance here today that is uh here in

opposition of this uh

application? The records show that

there's none. Um, Mr. Pips, do you have

any questions of Mr. Knight at this

point in time? Well,

Mr. I think you answered it that

basically tried to satisfy requirements

for nightclubs. There's no place in

Harrisburg again with the current

existing coding standards. Okay. You

you'd have to go to city council and get

actually amendment to the coding

standards to do something like that. So,

um, no, I'm I'm okay. Good. Miss

Cameron, do you have any questions of

Mr. Okay. Feel free anytime you have a

question. They explained it very well at

planning. Okay. So, great. Uh, Mr. Hume,

do you have any questions of Mr. Knight?

No questions for Mr. Knight. Okay. Do

you want to proceed with your case then?

Absolutely. Thank you. Um if I may, I

have um some exhibition exhibits to

present to

Thank you.

I don't know if I have enough.

Thank you. Mr. Knight um you know we I

think he accurately um covered the

history of this property and um it was

basically to provide a little bit more

detail for the hearing officer as to why

um we believe we're entitled to uh to

variance relief in this case. Um this

property I mean historically for the

last 30 years has been part of the

restaurant row revitalization um has

served as a nightclub um on several

occasions and um thank you trying to

reach the feedback. Um, and and you

know, the interesting thing about this

property, which I didn't even realize

until I um I got involved in this case,

is that the um the property itself, even

though there's windows, for example, on

the exterior of the property, um they're

actually covered on the inside. So, um

this property is extensively

soundproofed, um from its prior use. So,

um and you know, and actually to convert

this property to something that would

not be used as a nightclub, in other

words, those windows to the inside. Um

that would be an extremely expensive

proposition. If you look at exhibit 4,

which we've provided, that's an estimate

from widener construction. And in that

instance, you know, they're indicating

that in order to comply with um all the

costs that make this economically

viable, I mean, it's approaching almost

a million dollars. So, um, you know,

it's our belief that there's a real

hardship here in that in order to comply

with the ordinance, uh, my client would

have to invest an inordinate amount of

money, um, just in order to make it

suitable for a, uh, per use in the

district. Um, we'll also note that I

mean, I know there was some question at

the planning commission whether

financial hardship is is valid for a

variance.

There are um Pennsylvania decisions that

have indicated that yes, that um

financial hardship in some circumstances

can be grounds for a variance. But even

I don't think you even need to get

there. I think if you look at this

property um it's been in this

configuration for years. Um it's got a

masonry and concrete construction that

um naturally absorbs sound. Um my client

did not create the conditions. Um but I

think um most importantly this is not

going to have an adverse on the

neighborhood. If you look at the um the

history of this property, it's been used

this way for 30 years and therefore

there's really no um concern that it's

going to change the neighborhood because

the neighborhood's been used to this. Uh

I think in support of that. Also, if you

look at um applicants exhibit five,

there's a long uh list of letters of

support that have been um provided and

um All these all these are are people

some of them have um are located right

in the vicinity of the property. Others

are stakeholders in the community and

they're all they all agreed that this

would be a valuable project for the

city. Um in terms in regards to the

conditions that were discussed at the um

planning commission meeting. Um I can

indicate that on April 16th there was a

community meeting that was advertised

and held uh that was held actually at

the property. Um and at that time any

questions that were asked to

um said I do have we do have three

witnesses available happy to place some

testimony on the record or answer any

questions that um the hearing officer

may have but I don't also don't want to

blame your point

well that's up to you I mean if you want

to put

on some testimony do that it's up to you

we want to proceed No I think I mean I

think we've laid it out pretty well in

the um in our narrative in support of

the application. So I think at this

point um we have a pretty good idea of

what requesting. So

um so just so I have all the exhibits

you had hand did you hand this uh

narrative support of use variances. Is

this the updated a little A1 on the

bottom?

I don't know if it has an A1 on the

bottom, but yes, there's a narrative in

support of you.

I just want to make sure

Let me just say

that it wasn't in the packet you handed

to to the board. But what I pulled out

was an updated

narrative because with the initial

application, it was a different

narrative. And I imagine Mr. Hume before

you were retained, right? And then you

prepared it after that. Correct. Um if

you might though, you want to just come

up and just take a look at it, verify

because it wasn't it wasn't in the

initial packet and in your packet, you

know, you said it was previously

received just so it's complete.

Yes. The updated narrative, right?

So Mr. What I'm going to do is I'll mark

this as a A1 applicant

one and then the other packet of

exhibits I'll mark the whole packet as

A2 but then

it's so we have a

yes that's acceptable

and

then Mr. Dumple. So, are you uh the the

application and the updated narrative

um are do you are are you in agreement

with everything that's contained in

those two documents? Yes, sir. Okay. And

you're you're one of the

principles.

Um does anybody

Mr. Do you have any questions of the

Yes, two questions. Uh you indicated on

416 you met with the and this is to

address one of the variances to with the

neighbors basically the 500 foot rule

and they were in support of it. Do you

have any documentation? I know sometimes

like

a petition or something.

Yes.

Okay. We'll get to those. Thank you. And

my second set questions is that um

and this we didn't ask this off any

businesses any type of business on on

Second Street. Um let's talk about

security. Okay. A little bit. Um have

you spoken with a with Harrisburg Police

Department to basically understand that

there could be

some additional security uh arrangements

for this envir for this environment. I'm

saying that because of the activities

that have taken place this year on on

Second Street. So you just covered my

name is Justin Browning. I live in

Harrisburg. I'm the managing partner of

the where

you go. Um since that particular

incident which I believe referencing

from Patty's weekend, there has not been

police presence on Second Street. Uh but

we do operate this facility with 12 to

15 security personnel. Uh every night

that we're open. Uh we we do still have

a good relationship not only the

Harrisburg Police Department but the

Capital City Police Department. Um they

do patrol regularly. They stop just to

check on us. Uh we have a first name

basis with them as I do. Um and I also

operate JB Love on Second Street and

Sawyer's Din Street. So at each of these

properties, we we have an excessive

amount of inhouse security that we use.

It's on our personal payroll. It's not

and they all go through a training

period, a 90-day probationary period.

They are all given a handbook how to

properly ascertain a situation. We have

a hands-off policy with customers.

Everything is as much talking as

possible without using physical force.

Um, and in the month or so since that

incident happened outside of venue,

Absolutely no problems on Second Street

that I'm aware of. I'd say things are in

good standing. Any video surveillance

equipment that you will have cameras and

stuff in your

property of time frame the capture time

frame? Yes, there are 40 cameras in uh

236 North Second Street alone.

Okay. 234 has not been set up yet. We

haven't begun construction on this year.

cameras there. What's the capture period

of time at least 60 days in their

cameras as well time period of at least

60 days of footage uh realistically

between 60 and 90.

Okay. And if there is something take

issue takes place that you will be able

to release that to HPD for or or county

DA for further investigations.

Absolutely. Okay. they don't have to go

back and well they have to get a

warranty either way. So, okay. Um, last

but not

least, you were talking about

soundproofing place and the cost would

be prohibitive almost a million dollars

if you had to really go out and

soundproof it. But that's pertaining to

236 specifically. 234 is a different

story. I was thinking it's glass and the

glass stops. You know, you

basically I hope the glass class on the

exterior of 236.

So to to clarify 236 uh the the color

was made to the change of use. Currently

the building is fully soundproofed. We

inherited it that way. Okay. Um the

insulation soundroofing was done inside

the walls and drywall over. So I guess

that discussion argument point was that

to to undo all that would be uh to

convert back to a performance.

Well, I was just thinking, you know,

sometimes we people get a little

rambunctious in the city. Okay. Um, the

glass itself, the glass is safety glass.

So, it would take aiz effort to

basically cause that glass to shatter

and cause any injury. Glass is

glass. The glass is reinforcing,

but okay. It's not. Okay. Um, that's all

the questions I have. Okay. Um are there

um individuals um here today that want

to speak either for or against this

project? They could come up stand by the

microphone so we could pick you up on

the TV channel here. Just state your

name if you're

residing. But I'm Mark Santana. I live

in the 200 block of Liberty Street. I've

lived in downtown Harrisburg since 2000.

about 25 years. I'm the president of the

popular area neighbors. It's called CAN

for short abbreviation. Um our

organization's been in existence for 30

years, even before I even got here. We

had fought off the federal courthouse

from taking over our neighborhood on

North Street. Made them up where they

are at the

time. Um and this goes from street to

third to street. So basically the whole

downtown center Mr. No described um it

encompasses all 500 ft of the area

that Mr. Brown reached out to me and

asked us to hold town hall meeting

uh I think he contacted me on Friday

sent a message to our membership on

Friday we

would mean until May 14th, but our our a

message out to membership on Friday,

sent a reminder out on Monday, and then

on the 16th itself, we sent out a third

reminder. Um, and we all came down um

went to through the establishment. He

described what he was planning on

doing, answered any questions or

concerns that people had, people that

asked any emails that could be there

that I asked questions on. I didn't hear

anyone

from all those communications get any

kind of opposition or or saying that

they didn't want the project or I think

everybody was kind of surprised that you

know historically that was revolved and

they're like well that was been a

nightclub for so many years I think

people were kind of surprised that they

had to go through this process

but our group is supporting his project

and we're kind of excited for things to

be different in Harrisburg because it's

been kind of the dry spell and dead down

lately

looking e

economics as far as recreational

possibilities.

Thank you sir for coming here speaking.

Is there anybody

else? I'm part of the same

organization as

web

huge. I was impressed.

It reassured me personally that the rap

plan is going to be a little bit

different than what I had

expected for about 20 some years. I've

seen ups and downs in the city. I've

seen some of the incidents you were

addressing. Uh I think they're doing

things and I think they're going to

things a lot better

than this is going to have a lot of

music. I know a lot of the residents are

excited to come down to it just to have

some

Thank you for

coming.

Mr. correspondence

with attorney regarding a neighboring

property. Was was that condition that

you talked about this property or

for the next property?

Anything else?

I'll say that we're closing. Um, no,

just two quick things. One, I just ask

Mr. Dunl if he could just confirm

everything that I presented to the board

in my presentation. Is that accurate? Is

that accurate? Um, second, I just ask

then for the admission of

Yeah. All the exhibits

um exhibit

A2 exhibits

B19 are all admitted into evidence. Is

that correct, Mr. Chairman? Yes, it is.

Nothing else. We'll take a recess now

recess. Thank you.

Stay away.

Yeah. Yes.

It was just so big. I just click on it.

There's not usually so many. Right.

Right.

27. Okay. Yeah. That's I mean

that's still had enough to get through

before the July 1. Was it July? I

thought it was

that was different.

Oh, did they?

Okay, we'll go back on the record. Um,

Mr. Knight, we just had a quick

question. The uh the resolution of the

planning commission um indicated uh two

conditions, but it's my understanding

that those conditions have already been

met. Is that right? Uh, that's correct.

Okay. Okay.

So, can everybody hear me? Okay. Yeah.

So, based off of the testimony, all the

information provided by planning bureau

and by the applicants, um, I want I'm

going I'm going to approve this request.

So, thank you, gentlemen. Um, and thank

you for speaking up. Okay. I always said

that has a lot to do a lot of times with

decision criteria. We see neighbors in

support of projects. Okay.

Okay. And and like always, the approval

is uh in accordance with the application

and everything that was presented and

represented here today. And Mr. Hume,

would you be okay if the written

decision would be sent to you via email?

Yes. In 45 days. Okay. Okay.

Okay. So that is um

uh application

next. Yep. So um case number 2600 is

next. Uh Mr. Hume, you have this one

also. Yes.

Well, uh, since these are all separate

cases, it seems redundant, but we're

going to have to go through and swear.

Um, well,

um, let's just go through um Greg Dunle,

Justin Browning, and Justin Hershey. Um,

you were just sworn in in the previous

uh hearing that we had. Uh would you

agree that uh you continue to be sworn

in and that the testimony you're about

to give before this board in this

particular application for 20

application number 2600 for 234 North

Second Street is going to be the truth

and nothing but the truth? Yes, it is.

Okay. We'll let the record indicate that

all uh answered in the affirmative and

then um uh Mr. tonight. Uh you uh would

agree that you continue to be sworn in.

Is that correct? That's correct. Okay.

So, um with this one, I'm going to mark

um exhibits that the the board has

already

um obtained. Uh and then just for the

record, uh we also have from the law

bureau um attorney uh Tarsa Cameron here

representing the law bureau. So for this

uh matter um I've uh marked as uh board

exhibits uh exhibit B1 board exhibit

number one is the proof of

publication the time and place in

particular nature of this uh matter was

advertised in the Patriot news which is

a newspaper general circulation for the

city of Harrisburg and this publication

occurred uh on uh April 6th and April

13th of 2025. Board exhibit number two

is the letter dated April 17, 2025 from

the planning director, Jeffrey Knight,

to the applicant notifying the applicant

of the time and place of this hearing.

Board exhibit number three is the

hearing notice posted upon the property

in question and that posting occurred on

March 26, 2025. Board exhibit number

four is the applicant's notification

letters to required neighbors. Board

exhibit number five is the application

packet uh design proposal, floor plans,

budget proposal

uh and dwelling unit 500 ft buffer map.

That's all exhibit number five, B5, B6

is a deed establishing the application

standing in order to pursue zoning

relief in this matter. Board exhibit

number seven is the planning bureau case

report. Board exhibit number eight is a

city Harrisburg planning commission

resolution. And board exhibit number

nine is a letter of support that was

submitted um as a part of this uh record

from Justin Douglas, Dolphin County

Commissioner/chairman. So we have board

exhibits number one through nine and

then Yep.

Yep. So

um Mr. Knight again um it would be up to

you if you would like to give a little

synopsis or Sure. Okay. Thanks. Um so

the issues um inherent in this

particular request are very similar uh

to that of the previous request. Uh

there are uh probably two distinctions.

Um the first being uh the length of

abandonment. Um it was a a somewhat

similar time frame, but it's a little

bit more unclear. Uh it appears that the

last time there was a formal um live

music happening that we collected

amusement tax for was about 2014. Uh but

in discussions with our tax enforcement

officer, he indicated that uh in

subsequent years um they were performing

um some live music, but they were giving

the proceeds to the Central Pen uh food

bank. Um, so we weren't really

collecting tax, but he was in

conversation with both the the owner of

the property and the Central Pen Food

Bank to confirm that they were receiving

payments. Um, but then sometime around

2018, uh, uh, those ceased and he

formally closed the amusement tax um,

log for the property uh, in January of

2019. So there had been about, you know,

five years, six years of um, abandonment

of this particular use. Uh, and then the

other um, being that the use has not

been established yet. So this uh is a

totally new uh issue here being brought

before the board um in uh in contrast to

the former one. Uh in this case um you

know the property is um much larger uh

than the other property and

um it is uh was originally a bank. Uh so

it was designed you know with uh similar

um sturdiness to construction the

materials of construction designed to be

impenetrable. So, uh, that's from the

outside in presumably, you know, going

inside out. Uh, the sound, um, will also

not be an issue. Um, again, in contrast

to the other building, in this one, they

will be installing new soundproofing.

So, that it wasn't already on site. Uh,

this will be installed as part of this

proposal. Uh, and, uh, during the

planning commission testimony, the

applicants noted uh, they had visited

the adjacent property at 226 North

Second Street, uh, with the property

owner. um played uh the music um at the

I guess decibb that are they anticipate

during shows uh and there were no

impacts and um from what I recall was

largely non- auditory um at in that

adjacent property. So um you know we

likewise anticipate that there will be

even less of an impact once the

soundproofing goes in for this

particular property. Uh and again with

respect to uh the relief from the

specific criteria um the same uh

considerations would apply to the

previous case. Um the uh use uh the

location of use is such that uh there's

no way for uh this particular um live

music uh proposal to be established um

without being within 500 ft and even in

any zoning district in which it was

otherwise permitted uh wouldn't be

feasible uh by right. um in downtown

Harrisburg here. So, uh for these

reasons, uh the planning bureau and the

planning commission are recommending

approval. Uh the only difference

um uh the there are two differences in

the planning commission's uh resolution

uh of approval. Uh the first being that

the applicant must remove the permanent

fence and closing the seating area in

front of the building. Uh and the

applicants have removed that. Um that

was an issue we had had with the

previous business on site. It created um

constraints for uh pedestrians

especially during busier periods at

night or uh in the winter when snow gets

plowed up on the sidewalk. It really

constricts that uh walking area and it

wasn't ADA compliant. So the removal of

the fence there uh definitely um

improves that situation. And then the

planning commission did want to make a

note that the uh that any hardships

imposed by the historic district

designation uh would not be considered a

justification for the approval. Uh the

planning bureau did not make bring those

into consideration our recommendation.

Um but they just wanted that to be said

and I think the applicants clarified

that at the planning commission meeting

that um you know they weren't saying

that the historic district would prevent

them from going back to a conforming use

or anything but the planning

commissioners wanted that explicitly

noted in the um resolution. Uh and the

uh reasons for appro for the planning

commission's recommendation of approval

are the same. Although the nightclub or

dance hall use requested by the

applicant has been operating has not

been operating on site for at least

several years as determined through

review of all resources available to the

planning bureau. Such use did previously

operate on site under multiple different

businesses establishing a history of

such use that supports its

reestablishment. As the applicant notes,

the building in which the proposed use

will be reestablished is of sturdy

concrete and brickmasonry construction

which provides natural soundproofing and

features an open floor plan that

supports a music venue. And finally,

with respect to the relief from the

specific criteria regarding proximity to

the nearby residential units, planning

bureau notes that the existing

regulation would effectively preclude

the establishment of nightclub or dance

hall uses anywhere in the city,

including in the downtown center zoning

district in which the use is permitted

by right.

Mr. Thank you, Mr. Knight. Uh, I have a

quick question now. So the planning

commission's conditions

um they have both been met. Is that

true? Uh well for all three of them or

no? Yeah. Uh in this case again the the

soundproofing hasn't been installed yet

but I believe that's a part of uh the um

building permit documentation that they

have submitted to begin the work here

which is being you know held until

tonight's meeting and a decision is

made. Uh but um due to the testimony and

that documentation, we consider the

conditions having been met. Yes. Okay.

We'll we'll address that. And then the

other thing is this per this permanent

fence that was removed.

um if for some reason

um this applicant should put a fence

back up, would they need a permit to put

it back up or is there need to be a

condition saying it can't go up anymore

like ever again? Yeah, we do have I mean

we do have annual um sidewalk use

permits uh that are um applicable for uh

restaurant uses downtown that want to

put seating out. Um the last business

that was on site uh did put this um the

fence that was permanently anchored into

the ground. It wasn't like having the

little airport stansions that some of

the restaurants put out there and it was

frankly an issue that we were butting

heads with them for for a while on and

it just uh kind of didn't end up getting

resolved. So the applicant's frankly

proactive resolution of that particular

issue is you know really really

appreciated because um uh it was an

issue and going forward uh or looking

back uh subsequent to the installation

of this fence we haven't allowed any

permanent installations in the sidewalks

um here and in fact there were a couple

other um uses Kiltas being one when that

got reused we had them take the f uh the

fence out there the red door ZAS that

happened to had them take the fence out

so we've been having will remove these

permanently anchored fences into the

sidewalk. So, it's not something that

we'd probably approve in the

future.

Okay, we'll get we'll get to your stuff

then. Um, do you have any questions? Uh,

Mr. uh, Fipps of uh, Mr. Knight,

Miss Cameron, do you have any questions?

Okay. Um, Mr. Hume, do you have any

questions of Mr. Knight? No questions.

Okay. Do you want to proceed? Yes. Thank

you. Uh I guess first just a matter of

housekeeping. I would ask that the

record from 2599 also be incorporated

into this case just for the sake of

clarity. Okay, we could do that. So

um you know for if for some reason

there's an appeal then both records

would go up. Is that what you're saying?

Yes. Okay, we'll we'll note that. Um

and then um I do have uh another exhibit

packet and I would ask that the I do not

have the narrative

um that was submitted. So we Well, let's

look let's look at that, Mr. Hume. So I

have we printed out this nar this

updated narrative. Um I just want to

make sure. Does it include these photos

also? So this whole packet, contractor's

affidavit, all that. Yes, that's also in

this packet.

All right. Oh, so just the written

narrative. Just the written narrative.

Okay. Okay. So, let me just do this so I

don't get mixed up

here. Okay. So, I'm going to mark the

updated narrative for 234 North Second

Street as exhibit A1.

And then you're handing me an exhibit

packet as we did in the last record.

We're going to mark this as exhibit A2.

And then you have subsequent tabs on

that. Yes.

Is that acceptable? That is acceptable.

Okay, you can proceed then. Thanks.

Thank you. Um so um just following just

uh building upon a little bit what Mr.

Knight had presented. Um so this

property at 234 North Second Street um

this property is over 100 years old. Um

the vast majority of its existence it

was used as a first federal savings and

loan. Um then it did have a nightclub

use and most recently was used as a

federal tab house. Um what my clients

are proposing is they want to turn this

into a live music venue um known as um

Capital City Music Hall. Um the intent

here is to um take advantage of the

masonry and poured concrete structure um

and utilize its natural soundproofing as

well as the reinforced floors and the

the large open floor plan. Um, you know,

as with the property in 236, this

property is um unique in that um it's

due to its construction and the way it's

been adapted over the years for um the

restaurant and nightclub use, it's it

would be very difficult to um use this

structure for anything else. That would

be very expensive. Um if you look at the

um applicants to tab uh four that's the

report from our contractor uh in there

uh he indicates that it's would be over

a million dollars potentially in order

to convert and up this property for a

use that's permitted by right in this in

this zoning district.

Um, you know, one of the, um, concerns

that has been raised on this one, um,

has been the, uh, the soundproofing. Uh,

what I'd like to do, I think it would

probably be a little bit more efficient

if I just, um, have, uh, Mr. Hershey

answer a couple quick questions for the

board to explain um, how the property is

now, what testing was done, and what is

intended for the future. Um, so, Mr. Mr.

Hershey, I don't know if you want to

slug up so you can go to the imaginary.

Your voice should care. It's very

wireless.

Oh yeah. Hey, my name is Justin Hershey.

Uh 17 East Coover Street Mechanicsburg.

Uh I am the principal and head engineer

at Hershey AV Solutions. Uh we design

and install low voltage systems as well

as acoustic treatment. Uh we have a

pretty strong foothold here in

Harrisburg everywhere from XL to

Riverfront to uh Bethl Temple. Um we

will be handling the acoustic treatment

and the audio reinforcement in the room

uh beyond what the room is already

capable of. We're looking at achieving a

75 to 80% reduction in sound

transmission of all frequencies from

high frequencies to bass frequencies

from inside of the building out on any

of its four sides. Um everything we're

doing is done under the guidelines of UL

listing for fire rating and for smoke

index uh according to all safety

measures and then beyond. So as much we

did recreate 105 dB awaited in the room

uh and met with Angelo next door from

ZME who went into the hallway with no

transmission. We are still going to

treat that wall uh just as we would as

if he could hear through it to make sure

we maintain good neighbor polics. to

improve the acoustics inside the room

for the bands. I've been a part of that

building since it was Dragonfly. We used

to do concerts in there as well. Uh the

volume that was achieved at that time 20

years ago is no longer acceptable in my

industry as it's just beyond the

threshold of pain. So we will be

generating less volume in the room than

had been in prior use without the

treatment that we have to solve.

There any questions you guys have on me?

Do you have any questions from that? I

have two. We're I'm looking at your

example

here. You're going to have uh dancing on

both. Uh this is twotory facility,

correct? Okay. And I I see the steps in

the elevator on that second story. Is

that going to be where the major dancing

and that'll be? That'll be a mezzanine.

It'll be reduced square footage, but

there will also be uh a separate sound

system facilitate volume up there. And

what we do that for is so that there

isn't one very loud volume source. There

are several volume sources of a reduced

decel that it reaches more people in

more areas.

Yes. Like several lights instead of one.

Okay. Engineering studies did work.

Okay. Okay.

Um outside of that I'm looking at the

examples. There's not a lot of gl I I

see that the only entry points are

uh I'm looking at your example off of

section three

the example at the top se number two

that's the major entry to the facility

correct

yes sir okay so there's no again so

issues I I had with the other building

there's no exposed glass or anything as

much carry some and we will be using

portable goos which are sound reduction

devices that are on wheels that will

help us eliminate from any glass while

also uh being easily movable if we need

anything beyond the already approved

egress plans for fire escape should we

need uh wider doors out front they are

on wheels and sides very easily and my

questions as it did with the other one

that glass would be safety type glass or

something not easily shatterable okay

and

security issues they it's right it's

right next to each other so I guess when

one place if there's an issue it'll be

we will also facilitating the cameras we

also have 60 to 90 days of high

resolution footage available so

okay did you have further qu um

questions of the witness Mr. Hume just

what um Mr. I encourage you just to

confirm I'm showing you it's on

applicants 2 tab five. Is this the uh

report you prepared for the work that

will be done to the space? Yes, it is.

Okay. And um based on your experience,

will this further reduce any acoustic

energy that would go into property? Yes.

By scientifically 70 80% uh hearing is

not linear, it's logarithmic. So it's

it's pretty substantial reduction. Yes.

And and to be completely honests

accomodate the sound inside as well

which will be pleasing to both sides of

and on the record and off topic if you

guys would like that feedback eliminated

my numbers

on driving

no problem at all

um very briefly Mr. Don, you heard my

presentation to the hearing officer. Is

everything I indicated

accurate? Um, also wanted to mention

that there is, as with the prior

application, there have been several

letters in support that I were provided.

They are on tab six. Um, and these are

from individuals both in the vicinity of

the property as well as um, you know,

community stakeholders. Um, and just to

confirm the conditions that were uh

requested by the or imposed by the

planning commission, um, as Mr. Knight

indicated, the fencing was removed um

from the sidewalk and um it was a joint

community meeting on April 16th for both

this property and 236.

Okay. And then one other question. Uh

this is the property where there was

correspondence with the Zambi's owner's

attorney regarding it's my understanding

that um uh your clients are agreeable

that uh that the sound level for

performances will not exceed 105 dB on

the sustained basis. Is that correct?

That is correct. Okay. And then with

regards to the fence, um the fence was

removed, but um Mr. Dunle, are you

agreeing that you will not install a uh

another permanent fence? You'll adjust

it or Mr. Brownie. Yeah. Uh the property

next door 236 will be using similar

structures. They're referred to as bike

rack. It's a metal structure that

interlocks. It will be taken down at

night. It's for safety purposes only.

Please perform your alarm so it doesn't

go out to the street and then we're

correcting people because it's not

smoking. So okay. Is that acceptable,

Mr.? Yes. Okay. I just want to make sure

they wouldn't be grandfathered in if

late if later on they decide to change

their mind. They would have to come back

for a special for an exception to that.

Correct. Uh well I Yeah, they would have

to come back to get a relief from a a

condition of your decision. Okay. Yes.

Okay. So So So if this is approved with

the conditions set forth in the

resolution of the planning commission

that would suffice the city I think so.

Yes.

Okay. Is there anybody from the uh uh

here tonight from the audience that

would like to

um speak with regards to this

application? If you want to come up to

the imaginary mic.

Since uh um this hearing has already

been associated with the other record, I

won't say the same things again, but I

didn't want to just uh just for the

record, could you tell us your name?

Sure. I'm Mark

Santana Liberty Street. I'm the

president of the capital area neighbors.

Our meeting, our neighborhood group had

a meeting on the 19th 16th. Um, we had

three notices out to our membership. We

asked for if anyone was in opposition.

We did not hear anyone in opposition.

People that couldn't make it to the tour

that that Mr. Brownie had given us had

given us questions to ask him to report

back to them. Everyone that had asked

those questions got got satisfactory

answers. Um, and we supports uh the

Okay. Thank you.

Is there anybody else?

Green. Okay.

Okay. And then your your comments from

the last hearing are incorporated into

this one. Is that acceptable?

Okay. Thank

you. U Mr. Hume, do you have uh any

other

Uh anything else you want to present?

Just um just a comment for um the

hearing officer that uh you referenced

the condition that would be imposed

about the 105 dB sustained. Um the uh

the property owner that had requested

that was the the owner of Zendes and he

indicated that with that condition he is

in support of our

Thank you.

If nobody else has anything, we'll uh

we'll have a a short recess and I'll be

back in a few minutes then. Okay.

We'll go back on the

record.

Um, Mr. for uh FIPS. Um is it uh is it

the case that you're willing to approve

this application contingent upon uh the

condition set forth in the resolution of

the planning commission as well as

um a uh condition that

um the sound level for performances

uh with respect to 234 North Second

Street will not exceed 5 dB on the

sustained basis. It is I

approved with the exceptions that were

stated by Okay. Um so your application's

been approved with those conditions. Um

Mr. Hume, again I'm going to ask is it

acceptable if the decision which is

rendered within 45 days if uh that is

sent via email to you? Yes, that was

acceptable. Okay. Thank you. Thank you

very

Okay, we're going to go back on the

record uh with respect to application

2601, which is a special exception

application uh for the property located

at 1605 to 1613 Market Street in the

city of Harrisburg.

um for the

um so what we'll do is again

um Jeffrey Knight uh is the director of

planning who's here this evening uh Mr.

tonight. Um, if you raise your right

hand, do you swear or affirm the

testimony you're about to give before

this board is the truth and nothing but

the truth? I do. I also want to note

that um, uh, Tissa Cameron is here, uh,

council for the city of

Harrisburg. Um, and then the applicant,

if you, uh, would like to introduce

yourselves and let us know who's going

to be testifying so we could swear them

in.

Yeah, my name is Sean Oul.

with on hill development which is a

consultant to uh the applicant handles

public hands foundation. Uh I don't know

if there's going to be any testimony

that I can swear myself in just in case.

Mr. Oul, are you an attorney? Yes. Okay.

And you're representing the applicant.

Uh

and not necessarily not necessarily in

my capacity as a lawyer. Okay. I'm with

a on hill development which is also a

consultant matter. Okay. Um, and then

who's with you? Also, Zengist with uh

Integrated Consulting, the design

engineer of record for this project.

Okay. So, why don't we just uh out of

precaution, we'll have you both sworn

in. Uh, if you raise your right hand, do

you swear or affirm that testimony

you're about to give regarding this

matter to this board this evening is the

truth and nothing but the truth? I do.

Okay. We'll let the record reflect that.

Both answered in the affirmative.

Um I'm going to mark uh exhibits that we

have received in this matter um of

record. Um I've marked as board exhibit.

Board exhibit number one is a proof of

publication. The time and place and

particular nature of this matter was

advertised in the uh Patriot News. The

Patriot News is a uh newspaper of

general circulation for the city of

Harrisburg. Publication occurred on

April 6th and April 13th, 2025. Board

exhibit number two is the letter dated

April 17, 2025 from the planning

director, Jeffrey Knight, to the

applicant notifying the applicant of the

time and place of the hearing. Board

exhibit number three is the hearing

notice which was posted upon the

property on March 26, 2025. Board

exhibit number four is the applications

applicants notification letters to the

required neighbors. Board exhibit number

five is an application packet um

including 19 photographs of the exterior

of the property

um preliminary subdivision and land

development plan renderings of the

proposed structure and full and floor

plans. Board exhibit number six is a

resolution of the city of Harrisburg

redevelopment authority designating the

applicant as a potential developer of

the property and thus establishing the

applicant standard to pursue the v uh

zoning relief this evening. Board

exhibit number seven is the planning

bureau case report and board exhibit

number eight is the city of Harrisburg

planning commission resolution. So, I

have board exhibits one through

eight. And as we normally do, uh Mr.

Knight, um if you would like to give a

synopsis uh with regards to this

application. Sure. Thanks. Uh so, um

this particular application uh is uh two

special exceptions related to the

development of a 9-unit uh affordable

housing project uh on the subject

properties. Uh the first is for the uh

proposed multif family dwelling use uh

and the second is for uh relief from the

off- streetet parking requirements as no

parking will be provided on site. Uh the

project site itself um are a collection

of parcels that uh have been owned by

the Harrisburg Redevelopment Authority

for I think probably 20 plus years. Um,

it's I I think in going back through the

application, I believe the properties

were demolished around 2013 or 2014 uh

that were on there. They were demolished

by the city uh and hence uh were granted

to the redevelopment authority to look

for redevelopment um opportunities of

just such this type.

Um there isn't really much activity

going on on the site. There it looks

like there was at one point a community

garden, but over the last few years, uh

the uh activity on there definitely

seems to have lessened, if not outright

ceased altogether. Um the project as

designed um outside of the two special

exceptions being requested. is otherwise

in conformance with the uh applicable uh

development standards uh with respect to

setbacks, impervious surface coverage,

uh landscaping um and then density. Uh

because the project will be filed

through um the city's um affordable

housing uh program, uh the project is

eligible for the density bonuses granted

uh by that section of the zoning code.

uh and thus the uh proposed nine units

uh are in conformance with that section

of the zoning code. Um with respect to

the off- streetet parking while the uh

planning bureau would be supportive uh

of the uh relief full relief from the

five off street parking requirement uh

required uh for such a development. Um

it should be noted that the applicants

uh have provided a draft uh letter with

the owners of 1501 Market Street uh

which is a church which has an on-site

um parking lot uh to uh lease spaces

there if necessary uh in their lot. Um

so again while we are recommending uh

support for the uh full um relief uh the

applicants do have uh an alternative to

secure parking if necessary. Uh with all

that being said the uh planning

commission has recommended uh that the

zoning hearing board approve the request

with the following conditions. The

applicant will receive approval of the

lot consolidation and land development

plan submitted concurrently with the

zoning relief application and any

departmental recommendations and or

conditions of approval applied to that

review. Uh the planning commission uh

recommends by a unanimous vote that the

zoning hearing board approve the request

for the following reasons. The project

conforms to the goals, objectives, and

action items in the comprehensive plan

by constructing a compatible infill

development featuring affordable units

in a vacant site along a priority

corridor in the city. Uh the project

site is located in a mixeduse corridor

with nearby residential, commercial, and

institutional uses and thus the proposed

use shall not have an impact adverse

impact on the neighborhood. Uh the

project is designed to reflect the use,

massing, and configuration of most

properties along the block specifically

and in the surrounding neighborhood

generally. Approval of the proposal will

enhance the character of the

neighborhood and improve the streetscape

of the corridor by developing

long-standing vacant lots with a new

infield development and associated site

improvements, providing affordable

housing and demand throughout the city.

Finally, the proposed development will

add new residents to the neighborhood to

activate the street on nights and

weekends and to grow customer base to

support local

businesses. Okay.

Um, Mr. Fipps, do you have any questions

of Mr. Knight?

No, I don't.

Uh, so Mr. Knight, I just want to make

sure on the the

conditions.

Um, there's a one for the law

consolidation. I understand. Um, the

second one is I guess we'll hear

testimony on that, but I did you did

forward to me this draft letter. Um, I'm

going to mark that as board exhibit

number nine. So, we'll have that as part

of the record. Um, is is there also a

condition that uh

this property

um confirm with the uh affordable

housing standards uh that I know there's

a separate um ordinance with regards to

that that reduces uh some of the

requirements. Uh correct. And that was

actually included as a condition of

approval on the law consolidation land

development plan application. So that's

why we tie these two together so that

one applies to the other. They're not

looked at independently. They're a That

makes sense. Okay. I didn't understand

that. Okay.

Um Mr. Oul, do you want to proceed with

your matter? Yeah, we really have

nothing more to add.

Okay.

Do you have any questions, Mr.? Yeah.

So, I have a couple questions. I didn't

want to give them to Mr. Knife, so I'll

give them to you. Would you again

um these these units will be affordable

housing? Do this to you. What do you

consider the price range on what these

units going to

be for the people? You say it's

affordable. So what are you using as

your your

So to be filed through the affordable

housing um that is subject to 80% of the

AMI for the city. So that's that's

included within the uh affordable

housing program legislation. So it's not

something that's like flexible or open

to interpretation for different uh

developments. So if they are submitting

through that uh they'll have to follow

that um affordability index. Yeah. The

reason why I said because we've had

other units that come up in the city and

they'll tell me fair market value but

I'm saying but it's supposed to be

targeted but as an affordable affordable

housing. So what do you consider fair

market value versus affordable housing?

Yeah. Okay. But yeah but I I think what

Mr. Knight saying is uh because because

they're like those applicants were just

saying hey it's going to be affordable.

Yes. these guy these this applicant is

actually filing under part of the

ordinance that um requires them to

be it gives them a standard as to so

they that'll set the rent for them and

that's been considered to be affordable

funding model basically takes that in

consideration it does yeah that's the

whole purpose of that right they have to

or they won't that's how they get the

density and the offspring parking if

they don't have that it's like they

certify, you know, then they certify

that it is within that and if they don't

then they those are they don't they'd be

they'd fall out then they're outside and

they're here then they're here again. So

yeah,

it says the current owner is at those

lots of the redevelopment authority of

Harrisburg. So who own this afterwards?

uh as as we proceed towards the

beginning of construction at some point

in time the Harrisburg redevelopment

authority will we have an agreement with

the each of the parals to handles

helping hands foundation

so helping hands foundation they'll be

the eventual owners oh absolutely

okay don't have anything actually looked

this over else to say this is pretty

straightforward

Thank you.

Okay. Um

Okay.

So,

you're okay. So, um

um we'll close the the testimony at this

point in time. Um it's my understanding

we just uh Mr. Fipps had indicated

exception. Yeah. Okay. So the the

parking requirement you're I have a

letter here from Rock Church that you're

going to lease

uh parking spots and that basically

eliminates that satisfies requirement

for special position for parking.

Correct. Well, I think what the city is

saying that um that they're okay with it

without that, but um that they're asking

them to, you know, move forward to try

to to to to obtain those if they can.

Okay. Is that correct, Mr. Knight? Yeah.

My next question would have been is if

that was still a requirement um cost of

running those plate those slots from the

block church would that be passed on to

the residents or would that just be part

of overhead for m for maintenance the

building I would anticipate be part of

overhead I don't expect it to be

excessive okay good

okay so you just indicated to me Mr.

Fipps just um that um that is is it your

decision that um you would approve this

application

uh conditioned upon um th those

conditions is set forth in the

resolution of the planning commission uh

the ex uh conditions one and two.

Yes, I do. Okay. Approve.

Okay.

Sounds good. Okay. Um, so a written

decision will be issued within 45 days

of today's uh date. And I just want to

make sure because do we who who would be

Mr. Oul is this

helping hand the applicant? Right. Okay.

So if we send that written decision to

handles helping hand foundation at the

soul at o2 law office.com would that be

acceptable? Yes. Okay. Thank you. Thank

you. So if you're ready you could

adjourn this meeting other business in

front of

us

meeting board for April the 21st.

Thank you everyone for attending. Thank

you. Thank you, Miss Cameron.