Harrisburg City Planning Commission - 2/5/2025

e

e e

at approximately 6:30

p.m. uh commissioners receiv received

your January 8th

20255 many meeting minutes um are there

any changes deletions

additions if not could I get a motion

for

approval so moved is there a second

second been moved and second for

approval of the minutes as they are all

those in favor state by stay and I I I

opposed

exstension motion Carri

under old business there is

none under new business this is a

preliminary Land Development plan

application for 1103 South Front Street

Zone RF all by Harry Lane with Eden

Village of Harrisburg for the

construction of a transitional housing

development featuring a 2400 square foot

Community Center including services for

residents and 32 individual tiny homes

uh yes so the applicant proposes to

construct transitional uh housing

actually think it's permanent yep sorry

permanent uh housing uh development for

homeless individuals featuring 32

individual tiny homes a 2400 foot

Community Center offering services for

residents and Associate site and access

improvements project received zoning

hearing board approvals for the required

zoning relief requests at their October

21st 2024 meeting property at 1103 South

Front Street is a 15 acre lot which is

largely vacant although it's still

obtain some of the building foundations

and site infrastructure from when the

property accommodated a steel mill

currently it accommodates a critical

connection of the capital area greenb

but little else in the way of bment

interactive uses there's currently a

subdivision application in the review

process which will result in the

partitioning of the existing property

into two tracks an 8 and 1 half acre lot

and a 6 and 1 half acre lot this project

will be located on the lad lot to the

South the property is bounded by the

property 1101 South Front Street to the

north railroad tracks to the east

property at 1105 South Front Street to

the South and ssan Street ssan River to

the

West the planning Bureau staff

recommends the request be approved with

the following conditions uh the

applicant should ensure that the tiny

homes will be ADA Compliant via zero

step entries and the community center

will likewise have Ada access to ensure

that they're able to accommodate as much

as the population as possible uh the

applicant must install landscape

screening along the western side of the

proposed parking areas to prevent

headlight spillover into residential

units uh the plane bu recommends that

the app can continue coordination with

the City Arborist regarding required

landscape screening and trees retention

of existing mature trees and the

installation of native plants and

pollinator plants in landscaped areas

throughout the site and more

specifically around the proposed storm

water detention basins uh the alant rec

the plan be recommends that the

applicant install the required bike

parking near the main entrance of the

community center and that it be

sheltered for the benefit of staff and

volunteers residents in the tiny homes

can store their bikes and their units

and finally the applicant should

coordinate with with the owner of the

property to the north of the site to

ensure to secure easement agreements for

Access through their site and provide

such documentation to the planning

Bureau planning Bureau staff recommends

the request be approved for the

following reasons the applicants have

received approval from the zoning

hearing board for the various relief

requests needed to effectuate the

project as proposed uh the proposed

project will meet a critical need

housing for homeless individuals will

provide units with full bathroom and

kitchen facilities that have improved

their that improv their standard of

living and will further development a

housing typology that has been proposed

and completed for other sites in the

immediate area uh the project represents

a continuation of recent development

projects in in this area intended to

provide accommodations and services for

those experiencing homelessness and

finally if the recommended conditions of

approval are adopted the proposed

project will provide improvements that

benefit residents including better

bicycle infrastructure and increased

vegetation and ecological

biodiversity thank you Jeff gentlemen

could you state your name uh address and

relationship to the project we start

with Josh widler I'm the civil engineer

for BL companies at Marketplace

Harrisburg PA okay thank you um

Commissioners at this point I have no

questions um and I'll start with my

commission who have any questions or

concerns commissioner

mic there's a

here there's a letter here uh from what

was it January 3D I think asking for a

lot of specific exceptions and waivers

to a number of

items

yeah um so I you know generally speaking

uh these waivers are um requested are

actually pretty standard uh for what we

get um in developments and frankly the

applicants have probably gone you know

above and beyond uh with like the space

between buildings uh things of that

nature that you know normally we don't

even kind of do a review of on our case

um so from the you know planning

bureau's perspective uh for the most

part um the traffic impact study that's

not required because it's not going to

be 40 Peak uh trips per hour uh STM

Water Management facilities I mean

that's something that actually the um

capital region water would have to sign

off on anyway so that's kind of more

within within their purview um and so

you know we find uh the proposed waivers

to be acceptable on our end and

otherwise would have to be addressed

through um you know capital region

water okay I guess the the one question

back in back in the day we we had a city

engineer who

reviewed those requests on that we don't

have I I didn't we don't have anything

like that anymore right uh no we do um

so I had I believe in the uh at the back

uh the city engineer did review uh the

request and did not uh the did review

the project and did not make any

recommendations noted in here I just

missed it uh I think it's like right

before um

the right before after the comprehensive

plan uh portion of the case report

it's under page seven of the case report

yeah uh recommending approval without

additional conditions without additional

comments sorry okay I missed that thank

you yeah and and and usually if if the U

City engineers's response is more robust

I'll include that as a separate

attachment to the to the plan but uh

there was really nothing to provide

right okay no other

question Commission

M read I have no questions on the

application but I forgot how you said

you were going to uh get your homeless

individuals how are you selecting

them process and we'll be partnering

with other organizations throughout here

okay which ones uh we we're working with

Bethesda mission right now I could also

see as working with Opa we have

relationships with them also okay okay

thank you

uh commissioner

Nork

um I don't think I have no questions on

the

actual layout you know the develop the

development plans as presented um I

think one related question would

be the South Front Street Extension is

that a public road is that becoming a

public road at this point uh it is as

far as through this site or through the

p that site well you now have this

extension which is a roadway now going

through three different properties pass

pen dot yeah um it is not it is a uh

private drive from basically the

intersection with Sycamore Street uh

through the pendot so it's not even a um

uh public right of way through the pend

do property see okay so okay is that the

one you I wasn't sure if you were when

you mentioned the easan agreement I

wasn't sure if you were referring to the

Front Street Extension or that um

emergency the gravel road on the the I

guess that would be the western side of

the properties yeah um that was for

basically any easements whether they're

utility easements or access easements um

and it's more of a I would say formality

uh we had we've had people inquire um

about uh any easements once the VOA

facility was um approved uh and

constructed and so I just wanted to make

sure in the future if we got you know

requests for these or if the property

changed hands either this property or

the one to the north and we had uh you

know those parties asking us for those

for their own legal purposes that we had

that on file yeah yeah yeah I would

agree because I at this point if that's

technically a private driveway that

belongs to VOA then what's preventing

them you know at some point either in

the middle of it yeah saying you guys

can't drive up here if let's say there

starts to become an issue with um folks

that are occupying spaces on either

property yeah Anda says I don't like

this anymore I don't want your people

coming up here what so so vpa when the

original subdivision for vopa was done

and and Jeff you can correct me wrong

here but they they did provide with that

subdivision the public access for South

Front Street so it's so it

is recorded in an easement as public

access the South Front Street extension

and then okay the southern portion of

that or Western portion I guess on the

on the bottom of the site that's record

also recorded as emergency access okay

and access for utilities okay so both

the top and the bottom have already like

been recorded as they're not roads right

they're not public roads so that the

city doesn't take care of them right

it's the responsibility of the owners

but that recording will will follow

through with this with this plan and

with the T to job as well okay has that

and on the western

side

right yeah all right that's uh that's

good to know glad that's been been

addressed and uh at this

point I know we had conversations back

during the sketch plan and the variance

phases of this project along with the

other projects that has the green belt

um bike PA the pathway has there been

any movement one way or the other is it

possible to utilize this extension as

access for biking Where Do We Stand um

to my understanding uh based on the um

review during the tonsil Towers project

tonso Towers intends on having Gates and

fences across these which will

effectively prevent Public Access and I

think um the capillaria green belt

Association is moving forward as though

that will be the final configuration of

the site and so they have been uh

looking at alternative alignments I

don't know that there's anything formal

as far as um a study underway uh they've

definitely they definitely know where

they want to go I think but they don't

um have the the formal uh engineering

study complete certainly I don't know if

they're in discussions I haven't had any

conversations with them in a little

while so um I I do believe they're in

the process of fundraising for that uh

study um and again I think they've had

conversations with the owners of the

property through which the the

alternative alignment would run um which

seemed to be going well I guess as well

as as well as they could um and uh you

know it's their they seem optimistic uh

the green B Association seems optimistic

that they will be able to find this

alignment and at this point it's a

matter of engineering and money okay

understood nothing that would pertain

then to this this subject of property I

can say is an engineer looking at it

they did share that with us and uh there

is a request for the city to assist in

an application for funding um so all

that's ongoing um so they I think I saw

the numbers between two and a half and

three million that's one set of numbers

you know I think without an engineer's

actual thing you know and uh there's I

think a question about whether things

will be donated or not in terms of

Rights uh so there's there's just

they'll be moving Parts but it looks

like they are on track to solve their

problem relocating got it okay that's

all the questions I have

thanks uh commissioner Jordan um with

with that bit of information I don't

think I have any further questions

then is there anyone from the public for

against this

project as I look

around I scolded before for not asking

any question I think it wasion now was

there anyway so Commissioners this is

pretty straightforward

U I got a

motion before before you make a motion

can I can I speak a little to the plan

so the one there's one item in the uh

conditions of approval actually there's

a couple here in the conditions of

approval just wanted to go over have a

little exhibit

um so this is really regarding the

uh approval with conditions item one

that Jeffrey had stated uh which is I'll

just read it again so we can read it

record the applicant should ensure that

the tiny homes will be ADA Compliant via

zero step entries and that the community

center will likewise have Ada access

access to ensure that they are able to

accommodate as much as the population as

possible um so our initial submission

and submission that was reviewed did

include um the houses at grade basically

to allow not even a a rant isn't wasn't

really required right it was just a zero

step like you'd go into any grocery

store something like that um in the

process of getting some quotes there's a

significant almost double Savings in

price and correct me if I'm wrong KY

Wendell if we move to a like

pre-constructed preab building which

would require since they come in as one

item they need to be set on basically a

small crawl space that would require um

handicap rant to be installed which is

still which still provides at zero

access I think what we would like to do

is and just change the wording a little

bit U we'd like to recommend that the

Planning Commission change that

recommendation uh to

state will be ADA Compliant throughout

the interior and provide accessible zero

step alternates for those residents

requiring such access So the plan that I

showed you which would be the ramp

basically the ramp length that would be

required it's basically a 30 foot long

ramp and that kind of switch switches

back so we we are certainly going to be

provide all the houses with internal Ada

access and then where required where

there Ada accessibility necessary uh

provide this alternative access um that

way we're not installing them at every

single house that's a kind of a big ass

um for the for the site so just kind of

wanted to add that in there C can you

clarify that please because if it's new

construction the ADA requirements for

it's a residence though it's it's an

individual residence

so well I guess that's one way to look

at it but you you have a center you're

putting there are they going to own the

residences you know so are you going to

put them in

as residents switch over I mean I mean

I'm just asking the Practical side of it

you know it's

uh

uh I'm going to reserve the right to

look at that question between here and

City Council on on the

Ada without offering an opinion at this

point in time uh but the city is

generally trying to make sure that

everything becomes ADA Compliant because

we're 40 years behind so and I think

looking at um the new um sketch plan

that the applicants have provided um

whether that's yeah and and I think you

could even do it if if it's between

units like this like have another one

over on the other one so maybe it's

you're only doing one set of ramps

between every two buildings or even for

half the buildings I I um what and

whatever is required by Ada uh my main

concern was uh um and again looking at

the elevation plans of the tiny homes it

did look like they were but I just

wanted to make sure that was clarified

but looking at the um Community Center I

did didn't see ADA compliance I saw in

fact they each seem to have like a

little threshold or step up so that was

like more of my concern was that the

community center itself was Ada compli

yeah and if there are great changes

required for that uh reason or we'll add

that ramp there there is enough space at

the at the main entrance you can see

gets a little wider uh at the entrance

where toward the parking lot so we could

certainly provide the Ada accessibility

that ramp

there you kind of talking about

elevations there kind of sparked my

curiosity what is flood playing at this

site um so the FL I forget the elevation

exactly it's about four or five feet

below the kind of embankment where it

drops down the dark green kind of where

it drops down to the river it's about

four or five feet below

there and that's and that's which flood

plane for which event St 100 Year FL

that is it is that high there yeah um

and actually the 500e flood plane

for FEMA does does extend into the

property so while that's not really you

know why we're recommending this like

change to the ramp height it would

actually help in that manner as well it

would be outside the 500 plane yeah I

just know for other applicants in the

past we've um I think one 30 inches

above the certified flood elevation for

the lowest occupiable floor uh so a

flood constructed building yeah our free

board which is the kind of buffer you

provide above the Bas flood elevation is

18 in uh here in the city for new

construction is it 18 now yep okay and

we so we will be above that height for

the for the 100 for all the first floors

even if they're the lower even if

they're and and to and to clarify uh the

entire site is in the zone X the 500e

flood plane but the Zone AE flood plane

the 100e flood plane uh is west of the

western emergency route and uh east of

where their driveway and parking area is

so uh no part of it encroaches on their

proposed development footprint okay I

figured you had you've done such a

thorough job and everything else but

just curious yep it's always interesting

to watch what comes Downstream on Front

Street when the water High that's all

yeah thank you um so another another

item was uh item two which uh describes

the the request for landscaping kind of

between the parking lot and then those

houses that have the rear facing the

parking lot so um we're fine providing I

think it's actually a really good point

right we don't want head or yeah car

headlights going to the backyards um so

we'd

like it to State rather than just

Landscaping landscaping or opaque

fencing because we have the fencing

there we we might provide a fencing

instead like solid fencing there in that

section and then just a just a

clarification on your item number five I

think we talked about this already but

we we will the access to vpa is already

guaranteed through their easements on

the South Front Street and then the

emergency access out yeah and I think I

think it was more and I do recall seeing

um the E the easement documents for vopa

but there will soon be a different

property owner between um the penda

facility and your property so I don't

know whether vopa's easements override

all that or whether you have to have new

easements with a new property owner and

if nothing changes and the easements

that have been filed are you know in

perpetuity for all of the projects here

I think that's fine I just want to we

just want to make sure that that's clear

again for future uh planning Bureau

staff and if the requests come from

anybody

okay any

other um I guess no the only other thing

was and I think um ver you had mentioned

it that the waivers

while they're kind of brought up kind of

on the side they're not specifically

mentioned in the conditions and we would

like that especially because we had crw

looking at this we would like kind of

that confirmation the waivers you know

recommendation of approval with the

waivers as as request in and and we and

we would be fine with um we would be

fine with uh grany approval of the

waivers that we have the right

to um if it's crw and they say this

isn't Inc conformance uh we need you to

do X Y or z um I wouldn't want our

determination or the the planning

commission's determination to overrule

that great I think what yeah and what

I'm looking for then is just the the

board's kind of acknowledgement that

from our perspective you're you're

comfortable with the with the waivers

asking for but obviously it would be

determined by

crw still more and also the npds permit

so am I correct neither crw nor the

Dolphin County commission has weighed in

yet not yet I it and that was frankly my

fault I was a little uh that that's okay

but I'm saying we we do have to rely

upon both of them as we review a project

it's not really it's not really a our

discretion to push them aside you know

they're separate government agencies and

uh you know um I do not find crw as a

general rule to be willing to wave much

of anything so so they they they waved

they specifically did wave the um both

the vopa site and the tunnels to Tower

site for the two storm water related

items we were asking

for but I certainly agree like in

general people on standard for a reason

right um and and I would get and frankly

I would guess that um these are in

our uh Soo because it's from 1988 um and

that was when we still had a city water

department which would have handled all

this stuff and so there it might not

even be applicable as far as the soo is

concerned that we would have the

authority to ran waiver or even that

they would request that from us so um

you know I I I'm fine with uh the

waivers requested that the city has any

you know authority to approve um but you

know would want crw to weigh in on

their and when you referenced earlier I

thought I heard someone say this is the

sewers private did I hear that right are

the other two

private yeah okay so and what what that

means it's basically VOA who installed

that private line from their site to

connect with the public sewer so oh I

got you

okay homeowner that's responsible for

their private line gotcha but it's a

pretty pretty long private line pretty

long private Liney long private line

right so in our in US discussions with

crw we'll need separate permission from

vpa in order to be able to tie in as as

we have currently shown on utility plan

we could we could tie separately in um

if they wouldn't allow that but it seems

like their

favorable that's also why they need to

access

these gotcha so it's uh we have meetings

coming with with um RW which they are

under a 40-year consent degree to get

the system in place which we are under

as well and you know they want to have a

next steps kind of discussion so I don't

really know uh at least in my meetings

they didn't really feel like they

were willing to do anything that someone

could put and say you're not complying

with h the consent degree

so any other

changes no that's all that's all I have

thank you so much appreciate it

Commissioners with the uh additional

information

um could I get a

motion on this

project I'd be prepared to make a motion

and I believe that would need to State I

guess the two conditions that we're

going to

modify that the city had had in there

the fence and the um the zero Ada could

be accommodated through ramp okay Y and

then I would probably put that to get

back to the other Clarity I would

probably go back and suggest this would

also be conditioned upon crw and any

other uh applicable

ahj relative to the waivers that were

provided here

is there a second on the

motion I'll second just been moved a

second for approval with the

conditions um all those in favor state

by say

I

oppostion motion Carri good luck

gentlemen thank you appreciate

it

sorry I'll make sure I correct before go

counil

yep is there any other business um

nothing uh new on our end I don't think

um I don't we've only got one case for

next month so far so um the submission

deadlines is this Friday

though why are they coming in so

slowly um beginning of the year maybe

tariff impacts you know who who who

knows um

we got caught up in that one

to and was it a one-year extension is

that what I heard

yeah because once upon a time it was a

10year declining some balance I think

right back in the late

9s

okay uh Joff if I might uh any update

relative the Broad Street Market that

you'd be able to provide have you had a

chance to be included in anything yet

yeah so um did uh meet with um the

design team uh uh yesterday and um other

members of Staff our facilities manager

um and uh they discussed um some of

their process up to this point um which

they've developed they developed a few

different layouts for the internal um uh

layout of the building uh they are the

focus of phase one um is reconstruction

of the brick building um on the same

footprint um in a

historically um historic appropriate

manner um I forget whether it was like

preservation versus restoration I think

was a bit of a discussion um but uh so

that will be a part of it um there will

be modernization uh mechanical updates

things of that nature Ada uh updates um

they have a couple of different um floor

layouts I think they're planning on uh I

know they've solic visited uh they

circulated surveys amongst the the

vendors uh to get their input on you

know what the new layout will look like

I think they've got a couple designs

that they're going to you know share

with them and see what their feelings

are on um which they which they want and

uh otherwise I think a um public

engagement uh timeline and strategy is

still being finalized uh to um kind of

go out to the public

okay thank you

anything else with the good other

water if not can I got a motion

for

adjournment is there a second second