Copywriting Masterclass, #1 Creator Mistake, 1M Books Sold — Alex Hormozi

Alex rosi has written two killer

business books that together have sold

more than one million copies and all

that obsessive writing has gotten him to

9 million followers across social media

platforms and this is the first

interview he's ever done that's all

about the writing

process one of the things that super

distinguishes you is you just like go

into Heros cave every morning and you

just write right right so tell me about

how you do that

I wake up and then I caffeinate and then

I put earplugs and headphones on um I

close all the windows and I really only

write on Bays that I know have at least

like six hours or more un

interrupted um sometimes eight like I

definitely suffer from like zerck effect

which is open loop right the idea like

if you have something later on in the

day like it it it messes with me a

little bit because I feel like I want to

be able to lose myself in the writing

and then like come up for air whenever I

want to come up for air rather than

think like I have to be done by this

time so that I can prep for this meeting

or take this call or do this thing um

and so I almost exclusively write on

days where I have nothing on my whole

calendar and so I optimize a lot of my

calendar around when I'm in a heavy

writing season around not having

anything at all on my on on it and then

when you sit down to write and say at

6:00 a.m. are you like I want to write

for six hours these are the things I

want want to get done I'm GNA get to- do

list how do you think about that man I

feel like I'm incredibly unstructured

with the writing besides just like

violent effort but that's about it like

I I write what I write um I never had

writer Block in my life I usually have a

game plan of what I'm going to write so

like I would say from a writing process

perspective I outline a book with what

the table of contents is first I think

we were talking about that before this

started like the table content is the

hardest thing I spend my time on once I

have that that's like basically the game

plan and so each of the chapters I tend

to have the same structure because I

write the way I would like to read and

so I like to have some sort of narrative

or story that kind of puts context to

what I'm talking about I also write

obviously non-fiction and so this just

gives color to that um I give a very

short description of what this thing is

that I'm that I'm going to be talking

about um and then usually plentiful

examples and then I will basically put

all of my my Alex notes um basically is

the end and I pretty much stuck with

that setup for all of the books that

I've written um and I think that that

setup has just gotten cleaner and

clearer between the books um because

they fundamentally are like my notes

brought to life in a book format um but

the hardest part for me is usually

picking what story I want to tell um in

each chapter that best embodies whatever

the principal is or whatever the the the

the core message of the chapter is um

and what visual framework I can tie to

that that kind of like melts everything

together or like ties it all together in

a really clear way that's what I spend

like I and I usually do words first and

I'll then put these highlighted caps

marks where I'll say like a picture that

looks like this and then I'll move on so

I basically do words first then I'll go

back through I'll keep cleaning words

and then I'll put rough Doodles in and

then only at the very end will I come in

and put the final Doodles because

sometimes like my orders change and I'll

put numbers in a doodle that if I move

the paragraph around like I have to redo

it um but that's been my My overall

process for writing but I just I just

write and I write as much as I can until

I can't write anymore where I feel like

my words pre-uni of time starts to like

Drop pretty precipitously tell me about

those notes where do they come from is

that like a note on your phone is that

stuff that you've written in emails I

have so many books to write like right

now I have like 20 more books that I

have outlined my books are limited by my

ability to promote and launch them more

than they are limited by my ability to

write them uh because I have what I know

what my other books would be like I

already know what my next two books are

going to be yeah um

and I write a lot of stuff down because

I don't want to forget it like I have

this this Excel sheet that has like 600

stories of my life and when I go back

through them I'm like oh yeah I forgot

what that happened like and it's like

it's it's in some ways it's kind of

scary because I'm like man this was my

life and I barely remember and I have to

like retrace the synapses to like go

back into the experience and I think

that um a great a great fear of mine is

forgetting um and so I write to

crystallize um the memory but also

whatever the finding was because I feel

like if you can't remember the lesson

you might as well not have lived it and

learned it and so I spend a lot of time

trying to crystallize uh the knowledge

into like artifacts that and I refer to

my own stuff like I I use my own books

for reference I think there's an Indiana

Jones quote that I like a lot it's a

it's Sean conry who says I think it's

Indiana Jones th um and he says uh he

says I wrote it down so I wouldn't have

to remember it and uh because he was

like you don't remember it he's like

that's why I wrote it down but but it's

funny because people write things to

remember things but they also write them

because they think they'll forget them

so it's just kind of this really

interesting dichotomy like how how

writing serves people different ways

yeah so then when you're writing your

books it seems like you're really good

at crystallizing ideas in your head so

when you sit down write leads or offers

how much Fidelity do you feel like you

had before you started the writing

project versus how much of writing is a

process of discovery for you I say it's

two-third Discovery one third getting

the stuff that I already have out okay

yeah like as I'm writing it I'm like o I

didn't think about about that I'm going

to have to clarify that and that's kind

of like I feel like the most exciting

part that's the fun part is when I like

encounter some apparent conflict between

two ideas that I know are both true but

seem to be conflicting yeah that's where

like all right where's the Nuance here

under what context where where's the

through line for this that can create

some framework that actually applies to

everything and so um the two modes that

I use for the Frameworks or even the

writing that I have in general is uh

util utility and validity h so uh is

this

true and in how many situations is it

true and is it useful H and so for

example if I say sometimes things happen

and sometimes things don't incredibly

valid not very right now on the flip

side a lot of like at least in the

non-fictional World a lot of like sales

and marketing lore very useful not valid

so I can prove a time when there's some

sort of tip or trick that works maybe in

this scenario but not that scenario and

so trying to distill out like what's the

fundamental principle that applies to

all scenarios is what makes that

interesting for me like I have tons of

anecdote and that's what creates some of

the stories that are like in the books

that I have um but I I call it like how

do I break this so I'm like how do I

break this model how do I break this

truism and if I can't break it I can't

think of a way that I'm like it's done

like it's good yeah my challenge when I

do that is I kind of fall in love with

my ideas especially after I've just

written them so like if I'm 2 p.m. I did

a morning writing session I mean it's

like I it's like my mom like you can't

say anything bad about her you mean but

like it kind of takes time and so I'm

pretty depended on other people that how

we break ideas it doesn't sound like you

have that same challenge though I

definitely rely on my editor but I feel

pretty strongly in saying that like I

have very little um loyalty to my ideas

like I'm very willing to be like oh yeah

this is probably not right I'm

absolutely married to the truth zero

about how we get there right and I think

that's that's um that's at least how I

approach this so what do you do you

enter these intense writing seasons and

is that like a season of no type thing

where it's like an official thing so let

everybody know I'm GNA be writing and I

do say it's a season of no so um Rea

team knows that basically like I'll

probably cut my calendar down

significantly and maximize for full free

days and typically during that season

I'll only have two days ra te meetings

and so I have five days a week that are

completely

empty and one of those days will

probably get hijacked but I would say

I'm pretty good about keeping that

schedule because I also really like

writing writing has definitely been a um

a guilty pleasure um I love writing and

it doesn't it doesn't make the most

monetary sense for me but I really enjoy

it like I was the um VP of the school

paper I was the editor-in chief of the

literary magazine when I was in high

school I got a full scholarship to

toughs for writing um when I was in high

school I end up going to VB but like

that's so like I I really love writing

um and I think that a big part of it is

I love learning and I feel like if I

really want to understand something I

write a book about it yeah and that's

been the process and so I love business

and so I love the components of business

and I come in with like my preconceived

ideas these are these anecdotal

Frameworks that I when I have four five

six 8 10 Frameworks that all of a sudden

start have like a through line that I

see I'm like there's a book here but

then when I dive in it sometimes

sometimes it goes great and I'm like wow

I was right and then sometimes I'm like

oh my God I was wrong that's when it's

like really going through the muck

sometimes not as fun but I want to like

get to the other side and I know the

value of getting to the other side

because that's where I feel like you get

the most uh fulfillment where you're

like this is true like you either talk

to people one onone or you talk to

people one to many they're either people

who know you they're people are they're

not fight me right you I mean it is

valid and it's useful I love the idea

when you're writing and you feel like

you've just got an x-ray vision on how

reality works it's like I've looked at a

hundred sales letters and I just saw

like the core component that just went

in all those that for me the line that

people say sometimes is I don't like

writing I love having written that's how

I feel about the craft it sounds like

you enjoy the process a lot more though

I like both I really do think I like

both I really enjoy writing I do enjoy

writing and I enjoy having written those

moments where you have those like little

mini breakthroughs ever we call them at

least my editor we call them like fight

me fight me statements we it's like we

say his things it's like fight like that

is true like there's nothing you can say

about that you know and um when it's

also useful that's when it's like we

create these at least these little

monarch to live by tell me about

usefulness you've mentioned this a lot

usefulness utility how do you think

through that when someone uses this

thing because I write non-fiction right

and so when someone uses this framework

this tool this tactic do they get to the

desire they get the desired outcome and

so if it is valid um then it is true but

if it's not useful to anyone there's no

context under which they would actually

use it and it would materially change

the decision-making process or their

behaviors in a way that would humiliate

or make their lives better and so I like

the the best frame like the value

equation was is probably the core

framework of the offerus book right

that's the like that was the me that

actually took like multiple years before

I actually you know crystallize that um

but that framework is

useful all the time everywhere like it's

useful for ads it's useful for sales

letters it's used for making offers

because fundamentally it's what do

people want right they want things that

are fast they want things that are easy

and they want things that are

risk-free and if you try to find another

component that that's that's not one of

those variables it's like it probably is

one of those variables I have yet to see

and maybe we'll see it later um but I

I've seen many people will republish the

value equation either as their own or

they like change the icons but like no

one has changed the for like they are

the forward and so I see that as like it

is valid now when I see like I think bad

Frameworks you can make a framework

anything you put a triangle you put

three things on it it's a framework

right yeah but that's not a good

framework because I can break it pretty

easily if I see lots of people starting

to morph things around then it means

that it's not correct right whereas the

the like value equation has like stood

the tested time at least for now I only

a few years but do you know the concept

of Mei so this is they use this a lot at

McKenzie different companies like that

so it's mutually exclusive collectively

exhaustive so an example would be ah

we're struggling with our content

strategy for the business all right well

we got three options we can do more yeah

we can do better or we can do different

but actually there's no kind of content

Improvement plan that isn't part of

those

ofs so when people break down

problems they'll use the word Mei and

then that's how they think about it so

it can hit all the options but also all

the options are different from each

other wholeheartedly agree and that's

the that's 100% how I think about it I

can't think of something that's where I

think breaking the model like if I can

think of an example that doesn't fit in

this the model's wrong and I just keep

doing it until I get those I mean more

better news or more better different

um is a great monor that I use a lot

just in business to um but it's like are

there are there other of those indiff

sub segments or subcategories that don't

exist or that that people aren't using

and that's that's what I enjoy trying to

discover let's do this take a 100

million doll leads and I want to walk

through how you think about book

marketing so let's just focus on the

cover okay and then just show it to the

camera and what I want to hear is as you

talk through it how did you think about

leads the icon yeah the subtitle and

then we'll talk about the back of the

book after okay so the cover I basically

had to make the decision so this was the

first book I was like am I going to do

something totally different or am I

going to just basically make this into a

series so immediately what we see is100

million the same you took out the

testimonial at the top that's what I see

yeah um and so I just went with another

color there was really no Rhyme or

Reason for blue I was like blue sounds

fine yeah

um in terms of uh the the icon I'm

pretty sure I wanted to do a magnet I

just kind of was like you want to

attract leads and I couldn't think it it

was either going to be fishing or a

magnet I think I saw somewhere that you

AB tested the heck out of them yes so I

AB tested the heck out of this I AB

tested probably like three or four of

the image of different basically

different um different magnet variations

um but the word leads I tested the hell

out of

and so I had $100 million promotion $100

million advertising $100 million leads

$100 marketing and leads was the one

that won uh and so I was like okay if

leads and kind of interesting though

because leads is the output of

advertising and so no one wants to

advertise people want leads huh I mean

that's that's Alex's conclusion I could

be wrong I haven't tested it but like

right but if I if someone said why do

you think that that would have been my

that would have been my answer and so um

I tested because what's really

interesting I mean and to be fair it's

like kind of the contents of the book is

um people do judge a book by its cover

of course and if you're going to go

through all the all the the work of

writing the book which is significantly

harder than testing the cover in the

title um like do that right you know

what I mean I think the first time I

heard about this was I think Tim Ferris

uh tested 4our a 4our work week yeah for

his book and he hated the title but it

it crushed uh all the other titles and

so he because he's like I don't even

really believe like just only working

four hours a week but it just it

murdered and so that's what the book

became and obviously became bestseller

and I read this um there was this uh

like white paper that was released by

this uh publishing company or that

helped self self-publishers and they

talk about this uh dating help book that

sold like no copies and saw this okay

yeah and then all they did was they

changed the cover and they changed the

headline or the you know the title of

the book and they became like an

international bestseller and when I saw

that I was like all right this is

important I should take the time time to

actually like make sure now the big

picture that was basically how I picked

the the the headline and then the image

and then the subhead I also tested a ton

too which is how to get strangers to

want to buy your stuff and how do you

test that when you say this what I would

assume as I go to Google on Facebook and

I see what drives the most traffic but

how do you test the subtitle I can tell

you I have the actual tests here so it's

like okay I had the realistic versus the

cartoon version so I tested that out and

so the real one did better it also was

aligned with the real image out the

first one so I was like okay that's good

um advertising Crush promotion so I was

like okay advertising is the winner and

then I did um advertising versus leads

then leads was the winner then I did

leads versus marketing now that one was

really close but leads still won so

that's why I ended up doing leads u in

terms of subheads I only showed two of

the tests here but I ended up doing like

probably five or six how to get more

people to want to buy your stuff how to

get strangers to want to buy your stuff

so strangers narrowly beat out more

people now this is the one that I

thought was the most interesting test of

the whole thing so how to get more

strangers to want to buy your stuff how

to get strangers to want to buy your

stuff 71% to 29% like just a one word

and so when I saw it's like it's so

sensitive and I just I just come in with

like no ego about what I think it's

going to be and even because some people

are also like hey you should do a

shorter version so just get strangers to

want to buy your stuff versus how to get

strangers to want to buy your stuff 70

to 30 with howto in front right and so

even work concision wasn't necessarily

um the thing that people kind of like

optimize for right and so anyways yeah I

tested that the how of the the title the

image and the subhead because

fundamentally anybody who's in my

audience who has read the first book

they have a high likelihood of buying

the second book if they got B from the

first one I'm not making that for them I

could just call this book two and they

probably would have been willing to at

least take a shot on it I have to make

this for all the people who don't know

who I am and I have to optimize for that

one split-second decision where they're

like uh it's like you know actually it

sounds pretty good like and it's clear

like what does this book do get

strangers to want to buy your stuff okay

what's the opp of that leads okay this

makes sense I need to leads so I will

buy this book on how to get strangers

one right back cover talking about that

so this is like my little mini sales

letter so I just wrote this as like kind

of like blind bullets um of the stuff

inside of the book it's so I basically

just took the chapters and tried to

translate it into a a bullet that

doesn't say what it is but gives kind of

like the benefit of it but hold on when

you say this is my sales letter that is

like uber Hermos brain going do that so

what matters in a sales letter so you

can get 2x 10x or 100x more leads than

you currently are without changing

anything about what you saw that I think

is fair like it's a fairly compelling

promise and so then it's like okay I

want to learn more about that now the

next kind of like bigger fun is I wrote

this book to solve your leads problem

and if you talk to small business owners

the largest reason that people will say

if you look at like the small business

surveys why they go out of business they

say lack of lack of leaf lack of

marketing lack of your business what

whatever second is running out of money

but I see that as lack of blads right

chicken you chicken egg and so then I

put a little bit of proof so it's like

today our companies generate 20,000 new

weeks per day across 16 different

companies or sorry 16 different

Industries um and they do it using eight

never- go hungry playbooks inside uh

once you see them you can't unsee them

they're so powerful they work without

your permission right so like once you

once you use it like you don't you don't

have to believe it's going to work it

just works better period And so you know

the easiest way to get another five

customers tomorrow so that's warm out

reach that's the first the first of the

core four so it's the benefit of the

core four that's War Outreach it's the

how you get first five customers uh the

hook retain reward system so that's

content it's the second chapter um and

so I just talk about the media part of

it uh for that you know six part ad

framework that gets more people

especially strangers to want what you

sell that's G to be the paid ads chapter

and so I just took the chapters and

turned them into the benefits of the

chapter um those are super specific

that's what strikes the bullets yeah

right cuz if I look at these bullets

right the six-part ad framework that

gets more people especially straight

rers to want what you sell how to get

people to want what you sell would be

like ah but you're like there's actually

a lot of things going on six part at

framework the specificity leads to

credibility there more people especially

strangers to me that Nuance is like yo

I've thought about this I know how you

think well and these are just very

concrete yeah so that's how I thought

about the front and the back cover of

the book I like it how is your writing

different for when you're writing for

books like that versus video and what

comes first the books lead to the videos

the videos lead to the books how do you

think about that totally process yeah so

um mainly because of the volume um that

has to go out if I'm on camera I'm not

very scripted um it's more like these

are bullets that you know we'll probably

make sure that we nail the introduction

because that's very important um so

nailing the introduction nailing what

the road map is for the for the see the

movie for the video and then like it's

almost like I'd say this the the YouTube

videos are far closer to what my writing

outlines look like than my final prod

because if I were to write the YouTube

videos as they were writing the book it

would take me probably a week of pure of

five days five full days to to write

just the video to make it to air you

know airtight air seal uh all the words

but we can do uh you know a a writing

outline in like 30 minutes uh or an hour

you know for for a video and that's much

more manageable like I actually do other

stuff for a Liv how do you think about

those hooks so we will look at other

industries that have higher performing

videos typically and look at packaging

that seems to have performed well and we

say is there a business version of this

that we could do so what's an example of

that uh there's this one where this girl

said like my my memor my my system so

that you can uh out learn anyone or

something like that and I think we made

a version of that was like how you can

outwork anyone uh and I think that's

what we ended up doing for the video so

then as you think about the interactions

the hooks the frame for the videos what

matters because it's interesting you

basically said I'm pretty unscripted

except for the very beginning which a

lot of work goes into kind of like the

book well except the book is very

scripted a l way through but like but

like the amount like 8020 on the effort

of like where's the biggest the biggest

bank for the buck is always going to be

it's you know hook packaging title

thumbnail first you know 30 60 seconds

is going to be where you have probably

the biggest leverage on performance for

a video and this is just something we

learned um obviously average VI duration

long term is going to be something that

lifts a video but right out the gate um

it's hard not impossible to overcome a

video that's just tanky yeah we want to

make stuff that people want to consume

and so I think the like solving for

making sure they want to consume it is

the title and the packaging and the

introduction and we have to just solve

for congruence like is the thing they

clicked on the thing that they're going

to get and making sure that they feel

like they're going to get it like that

that promise is going to get delivered

on and how do you think about when

you're delivering a story how that is

different in video versus writing I

actually feel like my stories in video

are pretty are pretty comparable in my

stories in writing yeah because I think

I have a pretty colloquial kind of tone

that I use in the stories and writing I

my writing more mirrors how I talk when

it comes to stories right yeah so here I

am in the middle of nowhere right like

you know like and a guy pulls a gun like

Stephen King like if you're not sure

what do with the story just bringing a

guy with a gun yeah um same same kind of

idea uh but I just I tell it like I

would be telling it to a friend there're

probably different styles of writing I

assume you would know this better than I

do but um I tend to try and get

everything out as fast as I can yeah and

then I kind of look at as like coats of

paint and that's the description I like

it's just like yeah I let it breathe

then come back to it and then I do

another coat and then another coat

another coat and for me most of the kind

of coats of paint I'd say the the vast

majority of my editing that not

socialized is me crunching is crunching

things down crunching things down

crunching things down how can I use few

words how can I use simple words how can

I use few words I can use simple words

and I keep doing that until I feel like

anything else that I would remove would

materially detract from the substance of

the book once I do that and the that

process right there is usually like 10

drafts so I do a lot a lot of drafts you

did 19 for leads yeah need leads was

unor and I basically started from

scratch at about halfway through those

so like at like I think it was I think

it was draft 12 I like I remember it it

was like draft 12 was like I was like

I'm done like this is it this is this

book's awesome and then that's when I

socialized with like 10 or so readers

and was like okay let me know what you

guys think and the feedback that I got I

was

like I have to rewrite the

book and so I rewrote the book um but

most of the time um the editing from the

socialized post um is I actually use

Stephen King's kind of like method there

which is if people have like little

tidbits I'll usually clarify those

pieces add those in that's easy if I

have many people who have different

comments about one

section their comments usually don't

matter it's more that there's something

wrong with the section and so um in the

third book that's coming out there was

there were like like two chapters that

were short that I put at the beginning

which is you know Prime territory in

terms of you know people falling off on

I'm super to front-end feedback and

there was just like every reader had

something to say about this chapter and

um I just cut the chapter entirely and

then just like edited the book to not

reference the the material in that

chapter and I thought of the chapter as

a pretty core chapter to the book and so

then I was like okay how can this book

exist without this chapter and I ended

up being able to do it by literally just

doing control rrf for a word that I

basically hardcore toine as this as one

of the Core Concepts and it was like I

just will fully explain it every time I

have it throughout the book and as soon

as I cut uh it was it was actually I

think it was three chapters one section

um it was like the book was just it's

like reading downhill you I mean it's

just like you just you just keep rolling

totally and um that's kind of how I see

so little things I'll just if I agree

with them I'll quick fix if I don't

agree I'll just ignore but if many

people come in one section I'll strongly

consider deleting it entirely um or I

have to just delete well I'll delete the

whole thing and then rewrite it or I'll

just delete it entirely most times I'll

just delete it if I can and then when

you say the pain is the pitch I mean I

understand what that means conceptually

but tactically when you're sitting down

to write copy you're working with a

business and you're trying to get more

leads or something like that what do you

do with that sentence so you

fundamentally have two two two methods

of persuasion right um you could go for

I can go into that but like you have

more good stuff less bad stuff huh

fundamentally so you got promise you got

pain these are your two weapons right uh

and so my goal is to highlight both of

those now from a selling perspective you

make an offer at the point of greatest

deprivation not at the point of greatest

satisfaction and so for example let's

say you're you're incredibly hungry

and you come to my steak house and I say

do you want a steak and you say yeah so

you have a steak and after you have the

steak I'm like how was it you're like oh

my God it was amazing thank you so much

and I say awesome do you want another

steak and you'd be like uh no I'm good I

be like what you didn't like the steak

and you're like no I liked the steak I'm

I'm I'm good right and that's because

I'm trying to sell the coin of greatest

satisfaction not a great greatest coin P

coin of greatest pain whereas if you

walk in the second time a week later and

you're starving and you walk in I say

hey you're really hungry and you're like

yeah you're like want two stakes you

might be like yeah two stakes hungry

right and then you buy you buy more

right and so we sell the point of

greatest pain not the point of a

satisfaction now the caveat to this is

people are like wait you should sell

when you provide value only when the

value that you deliver creates a new

problem that you can then solve and so

for example if you are a marketing

agency whatever and you help a customer

um get a whole bunch of leads all right

you once you solve their leads problem

if you say hey do you want even more

than they're like no I can't even handle

them so at that point you solve the

first problem but now they need somebody

to help them work the leads they're now

hungry for dessert right right or

whatever so they have a new deprivation

that we can then sell the next day and

so I see that as a big mistake from a

copyrighting perspective is actually the

timing of when the copy is being

delivered in the in the larger context U

rather than the subc context of the of

the the Prospect and so when I'm

thinking about the pain is the pitch to

bring this full circle is I want to

think about as many very concrete

examples that someone would experience

pain and so I remember when I was uh so

when Le I were really poor and I just

lost everything and we decided that we

weren't going to actually do the gym

business anymore so there there's this

like you know 30-day period where we

decided we're not going to do the gym

Fin and so uh I said okay she had lost

100 pounds intended a fitness

competition all that stuff and I was

like all right I'm going to write a

sales page of your story because my

story isn't compelling I've had a six

talk my whole life no one cares and so

but her she had all this weight loss

whatever and so I wrote her life story

and she was like this is more compelling

and I'm the one who lived it and I

didn't live any of it but I just thought

about like how she would wear a coverall

when she would go to the beach and she

would get chafing between her thighs

when she was walking all day she was

overweight back to that specificity and

not wanting to be in pictures and just

be always in the second row or to the

side because she didn't like having a

picture taken and I'm like how many

these moments right so like pain happens

in moments and so it's I want to capture

the moment because anyone who's had that

pain is like I never want to live that I

will never never want to have that

happen again I think that if you can

accurately describe a prospect's pain in

their own language in their own

experiences you can persuade them to buy

whatever your product is based on how

well and how knowledgeable they believe

you to be as a function of how specific

you were about the pain they're

experiencing and so if I if I'm talking

to a business owner that's doing $10

million a year

and I'm like this is what's going wrong

in it right and this is what's going

wrong in sales and this is what's going

wrong in your marketing and this is

what's going on in they're like okay I

get it I get it you you know where I'm

at I'm like right do you want my help I

don't have to make a promise if I can

describe the pain so acutely and they're

like you can't know that pain this well

and not be able to deliver sure and so

that's where the pain is the pitch comes

from and so often times um when people

trying to write sales Pages or even

they're trying to do sales pitch um they

I think many people will overemphasize

promise and there's nothing wrong with

having promise you know private it's

compli all that stuff um but the thing

is pain is what motivates a lot of

people take action it's cool to hear you

speak because what really stands out is

how much of an engineer you are and you

have this almost

mathematical not formulaic way of

speaking but you are in search of

formulas in the way that Engineers are

and basically trying to break down

reality into formulas to basically say

yo I'm trying to figure out how things

work simplify it get it to a place where

it's super clear concrete stories

examples and then I'm going to share it

for you so that any problem that you

have here's an answer feel like that's a

lot of what you're going for and you're

right it's 100% what I'm going for is

actually very well described when I get

like in my deep emotional places I'm

like I just feel like I want to

understand the world better and a lot of

times I feel like I don't understand it

well at all and so a lot of my writing

is an attempt to just understand one

tiny quarter of it and that's just

happens to be the quarter that I spend a

lot of my time in and so I spend a lot

of time thinking about business and so a

lot of my Frameworks a lot of my writing

a lot of my content is in search of

simplified formulas of seeing the world

accurately and so fundamentally if you

can predict you can control what do you

mean if you know all the variables that

you can influence to create an outcome

right which means that if you have a

perfect predicted model so this would be

like from a science perspective like if

you have all the variables that

predicted outcome then if you verse that

it means you can also control the alome

okay if you can manipulate the variables

if the weather is one of the variables

fine if I can't control the weather but

if I can put someone indoors and mimic

the weather then I can in a very way in

a real way uh control the outcome so

what you're saying is that businesses

have these similar equations and you can

say I'm shing with this I can pull the

lever on leads and then I know what's

going to happen here or there yeah we

don't have enough demand okay well

demand is straightforward are we going

to talk to people oneone are we going to

talk them one to many well what how many

customers are we going after Fortune 100

so it's probably going to be a one to

one approach are we going after Mass

Market weight loss it's probably one to

many okay cool if we're doing one to

many like are we going to do paid ads or

we gonna be making content okay well we

could use one-on-one to get Affiliates

who then are doing paid ads or doing

content on our behalf well then we can

use that strategy but fundamentally the

only four things that you can do as the

entrepreneur or whatever is cod Outreach

form Outreach PID ads content that's it

it's the only thing you can do but what

about Affiliates well you do one of

those four to get the affiliate MH you

reach out to them you make content

saying hey I'm looking for Affiliates or

you run ads saying hey I've got an

influencer program you're going to still

have to do that first core 4 to get

other people to come do the other stuff

on your

behalf ah here's the other Fair Alex

there's the dude there's two lines that

I feel like I've really that that I

think you really nailed okay the first

is we'll talk about this one first that

if you put in 10 times more work into a

book MH because the quality is better

you end up with a 100 or a THX the word

of mouth yeah talk to me about that it's

kind of the difference between you know

gold medal and fourth place the real

difference is small the Practical

difference is enormous so what's the

difference in terms of someone's life

when they're the gold medalist of

something they get endorsement deals

they're forever the gold Champion like

all that stuff fourth it's like you get

nothing right and so I think a lot of

people don't even get fourth to be real

you know like they're like number 100

and they but the thing is they still try

pretty hard yeah it's just that all of

the best Returns come at the end of work

it's like those it's the it's the 16th

coat of paint that really just makes it

that little bit better and I think in an

increasingly connected World more things

are win or take all well the way that I

put it is that the curse of the internet

is global competition yeah the gift of

the internet is global reach yeah and

because of that your stuff has to be way

better in order to stand out but then

the rewards on the other side are way

bigger yeah I think nval has a good

quote on this he says um technology uh

democratizes consumption and

consolidates production and so it means

that if you're the best in the world you

get to do it for everyone Y and so then

it's like if you get to do it for

everyone then it's like then trying to

become the best in the world and the

best in the world definitely not going

to do it on four yards a week it's

higher leverage to work more which

sounds ironic or counterintuitive right

because then that's kind of the point

the like I think why you like that

statement it's like how are you telling

me that this unscalable effort where I'm

putting in n equals whatever many more

repetitions like I'm getting diminishing

returns here right how can it how can

that be more efficient than doing half

the work or having a ghost riter it's

like well if I have a ghost writer no

one's going to tell talk about my book

right like I'm just going to have a

marketing campaign I'm going to sell

whatever it is before people read the

book and that's it but the long tail on

time is huge and so the fact that like

Rich Dad Poor Dad still sells 100,000

copies a month 40 years I 50 years later

than when he originally wrote it I'm

like I want to build assets

not magazines with hard

covers and that's also why I spent a

long time on all the books to try and

make them to make them Evergreen like

think about writing a book on

Advertising without talking about any

single platform Facebook is not in there

Instagram is not in there so as you were

thinking about these you were like in

20080 I want this book to be as useful

as it was when I wrote this and the

easiest way I do it is I back test it

what does that mean does this make sense

2,000 years ago people still want things

to be risk- free they still want them to

be fast they still let them be easy you

can reach out to people one one that you

know that you don't know reach out one

to many uh that you know that you don't

know like reaching out one to many is

standing on the corner corner of a

street and

shouting right that's what it is right

right you could put a billboard up you

can have a sign like this works 2,000

years ago and so that's so rather than

try to predict the future I just look at

the past and say does it still work this

one's good too it's from

mangela if people saw how much work I

put into my they wouldn't think it's as

exceptional as it is I love this um this

visual which is that if you look at a

marathon right if you've ever like God

with somebody to some Marathon that

they're running and you wanted to

support

them 95% of people are in two places at

the beginning at the end but the

marathon is everything in between and

so we as a society the Highlight Reel is

only these two places and so what

happens is most people in their mind

assume that that is the race starting

and then finishing but the 26.2 miles

that happens in between like the mundane

middle right Master the middle um is the

part where the Champions made and so I

think that to the same degree like if

people saw that I wrote 19 drafts of

this book they wouldn't think it was

that special can we do this can we open

up to that table of content once again I

just want to remind you take as much

time as you need to find so it's the

second sticky note here so if you go

right here should opened up right to it

but as much time as you need to go

through the table of contents and I

think it' be really cool to walk us

through how some of these ideas changed

and also I just want to emphasize before

you start here this table of contents

it's not like oh Alex made a table of

contents no no no this the table of

contents is the outline for your book

yeah and so it does a lot more than a

standard table of content and I feel

like that's

how Alex's opinion I feel like that's

how books should write like if you want

to if you want to figure out if you want

to read a book I feel like you should

read the table of contents and be able

to make a good decision sure and that's

kind of and I try to make my my titles

and chapter headings like pretty

descriptive like this is about Orma

reach so what's going on here so when

you start what am I looking at so

believe it or not this book was was the

original through line was going to be

about

leverage and I ended up cutting all of

the leverage Concepts from the book for

the most part except for one chapter

right before lead Getters um because I

just it was so difficult to try and

weave it in that I it felt forced I

still believe it to be like the actual

essence of that but because it's like

how can I as one man get 20,000 30,000

leads a day like how well I can't do it

I do it through leverage sure and so

that was kind of like the the Catalyst

for wanting to even like begin writing

about this yeah um but anyways so uh

this was kind of like my rough ideas

okay you know I have to Define some

terms right I have to define media lead

gen leads content promotion uh the three

contact types which is not even a thing

uh I thought it was going to be a thing

it wasn't a thing promotions I ended up

just cutting entirely from the book and

using somewhere else I'll just leave

that there um you know and you know I

was going to take this very like like

everything we used to talk about

marketing is wrong right and um I do

believe that to a great degree that that

is somewhat true but it's like okay now

you got to define the target so there's

like the market you know deeper up down

adjacent um different Market types I

ended up cutting that from the book so

but what I see you doing here is you're

kind of trying to do a full pass give

yourself enough Fidelity to see where

you're going but you're not married to

this I mean we did 19 drafts here and we

completely rewrote it after number 12

but you're not married to this but it's

crucial that you're actually putting

enough on that you're like I can at

least start walking now yeah and so I

would say that one of the biggest

filters that I use for utility is

whether it can be operationalized H and

so the fact it's unsurprising to me now

because this was however many years ago

that I wrote that the activity box is

what I called this I didn't even have

the name of the core for yet but the

idea that like what can I tell someone

to do if I can't change their behavior

they cannot learn which means that

there's no point in writing about it

unless it changes their what they do

right and so that has pretty much been

the a the biggest lens that I use from a

cutting perspective when I'm making the

book and so I think the reason a lot of

people are like man the books are from

what I understand people say that it's

they're they're really digestible

they're really easy to use really easy

to understand it's because I talk almost

zero about theory yes I only talk about

what you do yeah and by talking that way

it's it it demystifies a lot of it I

will eventually write a book on branding

but I looked up all the all the

definitions of branding on the internet

from different marketers and I was like

I don't know what any of this means

they're all fluffy yeah it's all like

the feelings Impressions experiences

that a prospect has and Associates I was

like I don't know what any of this is

right it's like well if I want to Brand

I have to figure out what I do what I do

to Brand right and and answering that

question has pretty much been how I try

and answer everything within business

it's just like okay how like what is

sales sales is just having a

conversation that increases like that

someone purchases right it's like Okay

cool so then everything that increases

the likely that someone purchases within

the context of conversation is sales

right and so then like okay now I can

start working through this right okay so

this is the first version and what I

will say that often happens is like I'll

write all these ideas that I want to

have in the book and I'll probably end

up being able to make the book like 10%

of it so like if I look at all of this I

cut out like I cut out so many PE like I

have this the just this one line was the

second half of the book like just this

one line um like operational drag

reliability method platform off all of

that was cut uh more new better I

actually put at the end of section one

around the activities like anyway I move

so actually this is really interesting

that you don't actually have a very good

sense of what ideas are going to be the

best ones like you love more new better

you absolutely love that idea but look

where it is it's section six bottom line

almost looks like an

after so that this idea right here

that's like an embryo that then really

grew through the process of writing this

book oh yeah so like once I get tired

enough of something I'm like all right

I'm going to rewrite it from the top

again and so this is me rewriting it uh

the sections right and so I'm like okay

now it's actually just toine the target

where when give ask evaluates scale so I

thought it was going to be this like

incremental process that I'm leading

somewhat because again leverage was like

this through line that I wanted to have

um uh through the book and so then I got

to like okay maybe I can try and

visualize this a little bit better and

so you know marketing like where do

people actually come from right because

people exist how do I get them to find

me like I would have forced them to find

which fundamentally is what I think

advertising is you force people to find

out right it's also just striking that

you're doing a lot of drawings to

basically work out the high level thing

this isn't you're writing and then

you're drawing it's like you're drawing

and that's how you kind of get the

conceptual map of where you're gonna go

yeah I do almost all Doodles in the

beginning yes so Doodles are at the

beginning at the end and this is an iPad

thing yeah yeah just like just you know

just notes or whatever I mean there's a

huge amount of time that I was like you

know media different you this a book on

Advertising so I'm like okay well media

is a huge thing platform's a huge thing

audience selection is a huge thing and

so the whole time I'm thinking like okay

maybe that's media section one platform

section two audience section three and

I'm like that's not that's it's going to

be so boring like it's going to be a

terrible book um and then I was like

okay what about the process like how do

people buy now real quick when you get

there you're like oh it's G to be so

boring it's be a terrible book are you

down on yourself or you at this point

like you know what I'm going to work

through this I need to find another way

so right here this right you these four

little lines end up being the second

half of the book wow right so like it it

totally like it just keeps and a lot of

times it's like this cutting away

process right this actually just

continued from the the one before

because I went this is all leverage all

this stuff was leverage so I'm like okay

this is the first time I'm like really

I've got this attract attention

interrupt attention so I was like maybe

that's G to be like an angle yeah

because I didn't I did but see this is

the mosy method which is like you're

always trying to find either mutually

exclusive Collective collectively

exhaustive or these contrasts where

you're either on this side or you're

this side which I think is how you can

make the mees yeah like if you draw like

if you draw one line it's going to be

valid if you draw two lines it's much

harder prob not be valid because are

they all true mutually exclusive right

um yeah so this is me trying to put

sentences in place of all the different

ways you can get customers okay um God

this is so like and then I try to

makeing this like Leverage equation of

like you times promotion times offer

times the medium times the platform like

that's all the variables that that exist

this whole thing ended up being one

paragraph wow in um in the second half

of the book that's absolutely striking

to me is how you just don't actually

have a very good intuition for which one

of the ideas are going to be good and

that's not I think that that's all

writers we just kind of have to wait and

see and I was like I'm supposedly good

at marketing so that was a little

humiliating um this has been my big

filter is like what what do I do what do

I yeah what does someone do as result

and if I if I can't clearly Define that

then I probably either just need to

break it down more or I just need to cut

it it's just not a thing yeah that's

been probably my number one filter for

everything like what does it change

about someone's behavior and that's why

defining learning was so important for

me like if I want this book to educate

educate it's about changing Behavior F

if you don't change your behavior you

learn just like in the simplest like

that is how you find learning um and the

speed of the speed of the rate of uh uh

of learning is intelligence so if I have

to show you the same multiple times

before you change your behavior then you

are dumber than some you can change it

immediately sure right um so growing a

you got do more pay more new platforms

more frequency more uniques more impr

like I I kept like working through this

and so this was actually just continued

there from that same that same page and

them like okay SC all of that let's

start with just like what about the

basic questions of like okay maybe it's

just who what where when how how much

how long and what's crucial is you don't

get here unless you have all these pages

and so that I for a minute I thought

this was going to become the table of

contents and then what it really became

is this became the action uh at the end

of every chapter for U yeah go for it

yeah so that's the final result of me

being like oh this isn't the table of

contents this is what I need to show for

every way of advertising so when you're

posting content and you make your action

checklist you just have to say okay

who's my customer you know what what am

I like what am I going to do where am I

G to do what medium or platform when am

I G to make this post so this is

basically how you make your list of this

is what I'm going to do ni I love how

messy all this stuff I don't know I find

that to be so gratifying you know

because it's so clean in the output and

it's just that this is a train wreck

thanks

man yeah three ways I mean I could keep

going on this but if do this go to the

very last one or the table of contents

in here fin yeah let's go to the finals

yeah and so I got to hear and then I

thought and this this is what was so

painful I thought this was going to be a

thing forever like I thought that I had

this like friction framework thing like

filters cuz I thought was like maybe

it's like a distillation process like

you distill like raw attention is the

input and then leads is the distilled

output of that and so I kept doing that

lead there legely distillation process

and so then I was like maybe I make an

acronym around this um and then I'm

coming back to this method medium thing

that took forever to try and work

through um and then I was like can I do

pce like I don't know if I can find an

outr I use it I kept going I don't even

know where the end of this thing is

right so right here I see start here get

understanding get leads get lead Getters

get started yeah and then this became

the final so this was like a couple

versions before the final and then that

was the final nice that very messy

process got me to hear wow I mean this

is the work man if it's all it's draft

after draft after draft so we look at

how much stuff is here yeah

right the amount that actually made it

to here is like this this

line This became one chapter and that's

it everything else I more or less threw

up so that's how I came over to the

table of content and then I was like all

I gotta do now is just write the book

right so then once you did that then it

was basically game time yeah then then

it was easy

I want to tell you about the only app

that I use to read articles and it's

called reader so tell me if this sounds

familiar you read something brilliant

like an amazing quote the perfect

article but then one day you go back

you're looking to find it and it's just

gone you can't find the thing that used

to drive me crazy but then I found this

app called reader and it's become the

backup system for my brain here's how it

works so whenever I'm on my phone I'm on

my computer I'll come across a new

article and what I do is I just toss it

into reader and then whenever I'm ready

to read I can find all the articles

pre-downloaded with no ads and no

clutter but here's the kicker every time

I highlight something reader

automatically saves it for me so then if

I'm writing and I need that perfect

quote that perfect example it's just

right there waiting for me and because

that I don't have to dig through old

notes or endless browser tabs anymore

and that means that I can focus on

writing

reader is the sponsor of today's episode

and look I got to love a product in

order to promote it and I can tell you

that I use reader every single day so

this what I did I called up the CEO and

I said yo will you give how I write

listeners 60 days free and he said sure

they got to sign up though at readwise

doio David Perell and there's a link in

the description below all right back to

the

episode tell about this how do you think

about

who you're writing for because one of

the things I learned from you is there's

this difference between being known and

being respected true and it's really

easy to look at the analytics and say

number go up therefore good but no

you're trying to reach a specific kind

of person so how do you think about that

I think it's the validity utility piece

like is this useful and I think that

people will consume things that are

useful for them like does it make their

life easier does it make things happen

faster does it make things less risky

depending on who you talk to like

if I talk about food then that applies

to everyone if I talk about leads it's

only apply to people who are advertising

which is usually business owners and so

I think about this in context of deep

and wide deep versus wide and so wide I

Define as um something that is only

useful for a

beginner and deep I toine is something

that is useful for

anyone like in a in a verle and so how

to get your first five clients is useful

really only for a beginner because

anybody who already has customers is

like I know how to get my first five

clients but if I talk about um

strategy that's useful for somebody

who's starting out and somebody who's

got a billion dollar company because I

don't think they're mutually exclusive I

can have something that's deep and wide

um and those that's that's kind of our

sweet spot for what we try to do now we

don't always succeed but like that's our

that is the intention is I'd like to

have something that a beginner can get

value from and somebody who super

Advance can also get value from them

independent of their context and how do

you think about the general Str strategy

of what you're doing like what was the

Genesis moment of we're going to make

rock and business content and then

that'll be the first Domino that then

makes all these other ones fall Tim

feris has his concept of like the big

Domino so you kind like I don't know if

you're purposely referencing it but

basically like is there one thing that

is so important that I can do that if I

do that it makes the rest of my to-do

list irrelevant and so it's like if you

have 100 things on the too list it's

like there's probably not one that's

important enough because if it were

important enough it would make the other

one disappear either shrink into

irrelevance or accomplished by

consequence right and so we're investors

right and we have capital and so what

does every investor want they want

proprietary deal flow and you want to

shift the supply demand um in your favor

and so if I can have unlimited people

coming towards me who have good

businesses that want to do Deals Only

with me then I can decrease the

likelihood that basically I can decrease

my skill at picking

and and negotiating and still probably

do well I saw the ultimate Way of

maximizing my luck surface area as

building you know our hope is the most

valuable business brand out there to

business owners and if we can build that

then I don't need to worry about all the

negotiation tactics I don't need to

worry about having the most capital I

don't need to worry about having the

best term sheets I don't need to worry

about any of these things if I just have

more people who want to do business with

me than I can possibly do business with

and then after after you you you match

the supply demand of like okay there's

more people who want to do business with

me then it's how what quality of person

like basically then you can just

consistently continue and that's kind of

an unlimited I think continue to raise

the bar of the quality of company and

entrepreneur that you work with and so

like the companies that we that we

invest in now don't even look close to

the companies that I invested in four

years ago talk for you about this the

number one Creator mistake is building

new products for Their audience rather

than building more audience for their

product okay I'm going tell you this

little Side Story and then I'll ask the

question so um I I'm I'm really a pretty

big stickler with written word um and so

it's been very difficult for me to have

anyone write for me at all and so as a

result basically the only thing that's

fair game that my team can use to put

captions on stuff is stuff that I have

said in a video and they can just

transcribe it or tweets okay that's it

and anything else that you've seen

that's written is me okay and so like

just put context on like if all the

words that are out there like I have

written all of them or I've said them

that's it and so um to your question

this is more of a business mistake than

I think it it's just creators fall in

the same traps and so let's say they

they spend this time gring Their

audience and they get to call it you

know 100,000 followers whatever and then

they come out with a product and then

they sell the product and they make

money and then they're like huh I should

come out with another product to make

more money but what it did was it

reinforced the wrong activity because it

was late so the activity that made the

money was building the audience not

coming with the product and so what

happens is you find these creators who

have like six businesses essentially

which is really just like six different

products that each of the businesses in

of themselves could be hundred million

plus businesses but they don't have

enough audience and so they do the

short-term fix which is come up with

another thing but long-term you end up

drowning in the fact that you have six

businesses and your attention split and

so there's two components to this so one

is that if you just launch a product on

its own and there's no repurchase rate

or it's not consumable and there's

nothing recurring about it then you're

going to have to keep coming with

products which means that's kind of a

strategic mistake right you should have

just thought of something that like if

we launched it people were going to buy

it quickly but then keep buying it now

you have a regular stream of income and

you can take that income and keep

doubling down on the audience to grow it

or pay for other people's audiences or

pay for ads or like all the other

strategies that are in the book of like

expanding expanding your reach um but

fundament that's the Trap is that rather

than saying because like you just think

about a long enough time Ros it do you

just keep starting new products and then

you in in 20 years you have 30 products

that you're doing uh or and my when I

say products a lot of times it's

businesses because the products are

actually not they are too differentiated

to be like a second product in the same

line I someone have two different

t-shirts I don't see that as different

product if someone goes from t-shirts uh

to selling Consulting that's a different

product right versus the alternative

which is like I just make t-shirts and I

keep advertising and all I do is I keep

getting more and more people to find

about my t-shirts and my my brand and

that's how I grow my sales and it's

going to be more steady less pops but

that's how you can build a really big

company whereas if you have seven

businesses which are like the most

common thing I see um you're end up just

going to be split thin and all the

products going be crap yeah and I see it

all the time so when you say hey I'm a

real stickler about words how does that

show up we have by large solved this

problem by having lots of video content

and the team being able to take any

snippet from anywhere if it's

appropriate to use it as you know like a

caption or something like that um like

LinkedIn is the only thing that I don't

write right uh so captions and Linkedin

are the basically things that I don't

manually write but they are taken from

either tweets or they are taken from

videos and so that's but emails I write

books I write copy I write um not add

copy that's one that I don't write much

but that's a problem so I'm fixing it so

tell me what is the business model of

these books break it down for me cuz

it's you sell them for cheap they're you

spend a bunch of time on I mean the the

sort of naive person could be like what

are you doing yeah makes no sense uh so

that's part of it is that it does make

no sense um but the other part is that

long term like I think that I'll die and

I My Hope Is that these will still be

around but but I don't think that's true

isn't this the thing that sort of

initiates everything else kind of gets

you

yeah oh yeah yeah so from the asset

perspective I write these because I

really want them to be assets I want

them to help a lot of people and that it

like I think that anybody who reads my

books can feel my intention behind what

I'm trying to do like if it were just a

lead magnet which is why I think it

would cheapen it to describe it that way

they wouldn't be bestselling books right

I think they would just be lead magnets

and suck and so I think the ultimate

lead mag should be timeless assets and I

think that's where a lot of people mess

up when they would like 99% of people

will never buy anything from you and but

99% of people are what create your

reputation and so I would want them to

consume something that is still

exceptionally valuable because they are

ultimately the ones who will create the

reputation you have now of course be

like well you don't know them or you've

never done business with them it's like

yeah but the internet doesn't really

deal in nuance and so yes this is the

gateway drug but really before this the

gateway drug is the content and so the

content is really the first thing that s

consumes and we want to make that really

really good um and then if they got them

enough value from the content they're

like maybe I'll give one of his books a

shot and if they read the book and then

they get way more value um then you know

maybe they come into my world they show

by our headquarters come to you know

comp one of our you know advisory events

and when you speak to people come to the

advisory events and what not what kinds

of people what kinds of businesses do

you recommend that the founders be

writing like you do and then if if they

do that what do you tell them so that

they can be successful and yeah honestly

I I basically try to dissuade most

people from writing a book and I think

that's because it's people who aren't

writers who don't love writing see my

book and think oh I'll do that and it

just like it's the Michelangelo quook

you don't understand how much work it is

and you I could already tell you if

you've never written before you aren't

willing to do it like I've been writing

for a long time I haven't been writing

as publicly from a books perspective but

I have four books like it's not like I'm

and before that I I loved writing you

know in my I've Loved writing since I

was a kid and so it's something that I I

can do and

can immerse myself in and really lose

myself to the to the craft and a lot of

people can't do that the amount of

people who are entrepreneurs who I know

who are like hey man I I wrote my I

wrote my book in in 12 weeks and I'm

like that's amazing

um but it's it's probably not that good

uh and I try to like got say that mean

way but it's like yeah I'm like first

draft they're like yep just knocked it

out I'm like that's

okay you know sure good luck how you

launch a book determines how good you

are at marketing how well the book is

selling two years later determines how

good the book

is is there a tactical way that you get

more Amazon reviews or is that just one

of those things or yo if the book is

good people are going to review it but

you really can't influence it that much

I'm always scared to make a review ask

because my own insecurity is like well

what if it sucks and they remember to

leave a bad review right um but think

that in some ways it's almost a liit Mis

test of how confident you are about the

quality of the product like if you're

willing to ask everyone to leave a

review then you're really confident that

people will like it and so I have a

review ask in the middle of both of the

books um and I figured I put it in the

middle so it's like if someone got to

the middle then they probably like the

book like right enough to get to the

middle right not on page five yeah

exactly not exactly oh by the way you

know like it's like I haven't given you

any value yet so like no I've put it

after they hopefully they've got a

signic amount of value I do think that

making ask increases the likelihood that

they leave review um but I think if you

have a crap book then people are like no

or they'll leave you a bad one which is

you know arguably worse okay I don't

know anything about your love for

writing as a kid and I want to hear

about that yeah I wrot short stories or

WR

poems um and I enjoyed that I enjoyed

that stuff the free that's why the the

literary magazine was probably where I

spent like that's where I wrote L my

stuff so it's all student submissions

for short stories poems um and so I so

and art and art too like kids who put

art so like the cover art you know we'd

get a bunch of paintings and we'd be

like okay which of these be the cover

and then between stories and between

poems we'd put other art from you know

the the art Department from the kids who

are you know making painting or whatever

they're doing you pictures of that

sculptures things like that and so we

you know we do a review every week and

so that that helped me get better at

writing just being able to like look at

other people's writing um and so I just

I enjoyed it I enjoyed that writing

significantly more than everything that

was assigned to me I didn't enjoy that

writing and that was actually a really

interesting breakthrough for me is that

like I didn't like reading that much and

that's not common usually writers like

reading I think um I didn't even know

that non-fiction was really a genre

until like like after I graduated high

school because everything you read in

just about everything you read in high

school is fiction or a textbook right

textbook suck and fiction I felt was

useless and so I enjoyed making my own

fiction but like think about like from a

learning perspective what does this

Chang about my life nothing I'm like

okay some person some random land just

did some thing and whatever it doesn't

affect me so I never really understood

the point as soon as I became an adult

or whatever uh I got introduced the

non-fiction and I was like oh my God

this is useful and so then I got more

into reading for specific purposes but

I'd still to separate that as like I was

trying to learn a specific thing not

analyze the writing right um and so yeah

I just I really liked writing and I just

it was one of the few I feel like I can

get to flow really easily with writing

like writing and drawing which is why

all my books at lots of drawing lots of

writing and I like doing my

brainstorming with a a pen because I I

don't know it feels more tactile I I

lose myself in it more easily that that

was pretty much my experience and I did

take a bit of a break from writing when

I got into the business world and it was

only like gosh it was probably was this

like the gym launch days yeah well I

wrote the gym launch book but getting I

think I wrote that book in 2018 so

writing the gym launch book was the

first like real writing that I had done

that wasn't like copy or things like

like writing writing that I done and I

think as soon as that happened I was

like oh I missed this it's like I

forgotten how much I liked it and so

then I I pretty much haven't stopped

writing s last question so you get a

call from UNLV they're like hey Alex we

want you to teach a writing class yeah

how do you structure the curriculum what

are the core things that you want to

teach people I'll bet you the first day

I probably Define

terms uh or first week I mean that would

I break this into sections rather than

than the sessions but like the first

section would be definition of terms um

the next one would be clarifying the

objective of why why are we writing what

are we writing for How does writing

serveice why is it even why is there why

does it even matter and then I would

probably transition from there to the

rules of writing what are the rules of

writing so there's at least as as I see

it and I would probably be paring a lot

of Stephen King's um on writing if I

were to say but like I think that's one

of the best books on writing out there

as few words as possible like if you can

use a simpler word use that word

um you know very sentence structure so

there's a rhythm to it you know short

short long you know and then from a

stylistic perspective I purposely try to

use uh lower grade language because I

want more people to understand it I

don't think there's I don't have um any

ego to people thinking that I'm I also

have no nothing against people who use

bigger words it is like altimate word

concision uses more complex words right

but I want maximum comprehension rather

than maximum word concision so I use

concision only as a a tool to increase

comprehension uh at large yep uh so

short words short sentences big promises

uh this is so they have rules of writing

anything else um that would be yeah that

probably be the next section and I would

probably practice super constrained

writing for people if I was trying so if

the objective of the course was to teach

people to write yeah then it would be

like I want you to write an entire paper

on this thing in one page and really

force people because I think like

Twitter I think is or X I think is a

wonderful platform for learning how to

write because it just you have you have

to force the I you have to keep

crunching the down and I think that's

honestly I think X is one of the best

tools for learning to write because you

get fast feedback um the other one is I

would probably use U like

Hemingway as U because that also gives

you real time feedback yeah and so

typing into there is so helpful because

you know Stephen King pretty much says

this it's like just don't use adverbs by

large just don't use them like there's a

better verb that you're not using X and

Hemingway would probably be the vast

majority of the remainder of the time

that I had it would be repetition of

them getting fast feedback on the

writing that they're doing under

specific

constraints and I would probably have a

lot more uh free like freedom in terms

of topic and far less in terms of

rules like you have to obey these rules

but you can write whatever you want you

have to do it in page or you have to do

it in half a page and you can write

whatever topic you want but you have to

obey these 27 rules now right because

fundamentally what I'm writing for the

most part I now they're like a lot more

or less ingrained in how I write um but

if like a section still doesn't seem

good I'll paste it into heav way and be

like oh that's why like and like I you

know long sentences like there's just

there's things that you just learn that

you're like oh this might have sounded

good in my head but no one can read this

and so that's get super right tactical

but that's that's why we do this how I

write mate it's called how I write yeah

that's probably how i' like out so

definition of terms uh why this

matters and how how it's useful for you

and I basically sell them on why they

should even do this uh rules of the game

and then practice and that'll probably

be everything the rest would just be

practice rock on well I just want to

thank you because I've read a lot of

your stuff consumed many many many of

your videos had a lot of questions and

uh feel like you to them well but also

you've been a big inspiration so thank

you oh I appreciate it I'm glad they I'm

hopefully they were useful and valid

that was cool thank you yeah appreciate

it boom okay quick thing before I bounce

if you just listen to that episode and

you're thinking to yourself okay I need

to listen to another hght episode the

one I recommend is the one with Harry

dry it's all about copyrighting but it's

not boring cliche copyrighting like that

LinkedIn course that you started a few

months ago but never finished it's not

that okay and if if you have anything to

sell anything to promote in your life I

recommend listening to it I think you're

going to love it all right see you next

time