Paulina Chiziane | Escritora | Pioneirismo Literário e Lutas Sociais | T1 Ep 26

[Music]

Ladies and gentlemen,

welcome once again to your favorite podcast. The

young man can do

much more

this time. I wo

n't take long,

Mother Paulina, here beside us, in front of us.

I'm very happy

to have you here, to have

met you, for our paths to have

crossed. Thank you,

and here we are today. You

accepted our invitations, you're available here

for a chat, and that's it.

Before we

begin, I want to start this

program with positive energy, and Mother, I

have some

beautiful capulanas as a souvenir for you.

Thank you. I

was on that program with that

young man,

a

wonderful Mother. Thank you very much for the offers from

our store here on the program, from the

pandemic house. Thank you

later. When we finish our

chat, we finish our work, for

example, to go there with the boys,

they had a small meal here at

Rock Papapa. They have delicious grilled food, I love it, wow. Thank you very much, thank you.

A small steak. How did I meet this

person

last week?

Yes, last week, last year,

young man Eduardo came here, Eduardo, the

assistant here, collaborates with Mother

Paulina. He came here, he says it's a package, we asked

here, I need to record something here.

Okay, so I was

a little hesitant, wondering what would happen

a day

or two before the supposed

start of the recording. She came to see the

studio, and that day I felt

a connection, my energy,

especially because of

her love. You'll see, she can laugh, it's

contagious.

We clicked

with her,

and on Friday

[Music]

a song, a music video, a song,

and believe me, I'm already here in the studio.

This is about recording music videos, songs,

our daily bread,

but the sound I heard, I'm

truly relaxing. This is the kind of sound I'm

listening to after a long

time, and I could feel it. You

'll see when this comes out. I think it's for

Mom, she deserves congratulations, and the whole team

that was behind this deserves

congratulations. I'm happy to

know how a lady of her age

is still tirelessly seeking to

bring joy to us,

especially to herself, and she embraced a new, I would

n't say face, a new challenge. It's

written, we're moving on to another

part of

all this. She's a real artist.

Explain, Mom, how is it going? I'm

going to start this conversation, we're going to start

because

it's easy... I think this subject... I do

n't know if I can be... I'm a bit

ignorant sometimes, I don't keep up with everything,

but I want to know about this song that I saw we

're working on, it's

the first one that's going to be released today, is there

anything like that? How is this

project going? How did you decide that you have to

embrace this, that you have to do this?

I know you already had projects with a

song with the late Asa Gaia and all that,

but let's talk a little more about that, Mom.

Thank you very much. I think the women are

beautiful, and we're going to enjoy a lovely

meal.

And thank you very much for inviting me to

this very nice place.

My stories are long, I'm not going to

tell them all,

but I would start by saying that

art is the essence of humanity.

The rest are different expressions of the

same art. So, I

'm a writer, I

'm now making music. If I

understand that I should do ceramics

because if art is the essence, if I

put the energy into a

neighborhood, I'll do a

fantastic job. Therefore, it's about

expressing our soul. I

have no difficulty leaving Mars for

another option, different expressions. Now, what

I can say is that music

was my first passion

at 13 years old. I wrote my first

musical composition

in the 60s, and even today, people

who make music, men or women,

are not well regarded in society.

My father repressed it, out of

protectiveness, a daughter who sings. No. So,

since I couldn't write my own

compositions at the time, I would

take my notebook and start writing

my things.

My father and mother would pass by from afar, saying, "She

's studying, she's doing her homework," and that's how

writing

took root. Meanwhile, music hibernated,

and now,

my father and mother, may God keep them in

heaven,

I am a free citizen. My eldest granddaughter

is 23 years old.

I am returning to my second childhood, resuming

this dream, giving back the dream and

bringing it to life.

So, this thing about being an artist—

many times we think there's an age limit, but there is

n't.

Human beings are artists par excellence. For

example,

a mother has a baby; the baby cries,

the mother will rock her baby and

compose a song for her son or

daughter to sleep, she

will say some words, some poems.

Therefore, we are talking about art. The

first socialization of the human being in the

world of the living is done through art

and through music.

The Wind... The sound of rain, the singing of

birds, a woman of the waves, depending

on where we are

and when we are older,

but we decide, like me, to like

a second childhood.

The body can't keep up, it can't

run like before, but the soul,

the essence, is present. Therefore, there's no

age to be an artist. At 90, at 100, at

zero, you

can be an artist, and that's it.

That's what I can say.

The vigor I saw,

Mom, is enviable. Believe me, you

have such vigor. I could perceive it that

day; the energy flowed

on that side that we were having

here during the recording of your music video. I

could see you embody it. It

's incredible, man.

All of this, man, is something that, how can

I say it? People

have to see, understand, and learn, even

with this example you are

transmitting.

Sometimes it's a problem of education,

sometimes a problem of socialization,

always saying that old people

are tired, poor old people,

because old people go this way, old people go that way.

Look, I'm 68 years old,

and

my body is tired, but my soul

vibrates, and it's necessary to show people that

it doesn't die. So we are in a

complicated social phase;

many people are being

compulsorily retired, and They fall into a

depression because I can't

work anymore, it's true, but it's necessary

to discover the energy between them

and make it vibrate. You can't go to the

office or the job you usually

did, so you create something new from your own soul.

Well, I don't know if it's doing well,

but

on March 10th of this year,

we created the first opera. The

opera was presented

at the University Cultural Center,

and I worked with a luxurious cast

within our team. The oldest person

is 80 years old

and the youngest is 7, and we did a beautiful

job

because

generations have to communicate; the

transmission of values ​​is sometimes done

this way. It was an

extraordinary job, a super

positive energy. I wrote the lyrics and composed the

opera, and it was very pleasant. After

4 weeks, to see that another group is

also going to present their opera, and it

seems there will also be more than one

opera. So

we were bold enough to

awaken this society and say

Mozambique needs opera, and we made

a team that was

absolutely...

It's true that a work of this

magnitude requires many resources.

And so there

are, but we didn't stop there. Our

clothes... Each one went to buy them, each one in that

friendship,

each one brought their energy, and it was a...

Fantastic work, a project

we will continue to do,

and

the music we recorded is part of this

opera.

We won't present a technical question

about timing, but we will

release the album very soon.

We're trying to create

confusion;

when we think of opera, we immediately think of

European opera. We're not going to talk about

African opera,

which is basically made with our

instruments

and many others. And there are moments when we

cross-reference

the instruments because, after all, the so-called

modern instruments are also ours.

Anyway, it's an adventure, but a beautiful

adventure that starts when we're 80 years old, and up to

seven,

everyone is committed to this. They've already made their

first public appearance, and that's what we're

planning, a second one

this year

[Laughs].

I'm listening for resources; let's support it. You

know how to get here? It's a cause,

please don't keep those 500 there; you

have many people who

need this incentive, right? I think

the culture of our country isn't in its

best phase.

Anyway, let's leave that subject for

another day, for another time.

I think this subject is important,

yes,

culture is our essence, culture,

art is our essence. I usually say

the following: imagine it's an earthquake, one

of those that knocks the country down.

What remains of us,

music, the books we manage to

put out into the world, everything that is material

disappears, but that which is the essence of the

Spirit, that will not die. Therefore,

culture must live, it must stand,

and we cannot give up,

even if

the resources don't exist, we have to do

something.

Another moment caught my attention:

recently there was a tribute from

the artistic community,

mainly worldwide.

They paid tribute to Mother Paulina.

Explain a little about that, but it revolved around how

this

movement arose, how you fit into it,

if we can expect a

video or a song from Anhembi Hip Hop soon, from

Mother Paulina.

Unfortunately, due to scheduling issues, I

couldn't be present at that event. The

young people spoke to me, and I

fully agreed that they should pay tribute, but

the hip hop movement is something

I respect very much because they are innovative, they

are dedicated, and they bring truths that are often

difficult to reveal. I would say

congratulations to these young people. In any case,

in my work, I work a lot

with young people;

we have incorporated

some raps and

some things very close to the IBOPE (Brazilian music genre),

but it's a movement that must grow, that

must challenge in order to build. Because

sometimes our constant questioning

is more of

a blind questioning, which isn't good either, and it has to

be a lucid questioning with

proposed solutions to the problems we

face, whatever they may be.

But making a hypothesis, you know, someday I

like to experiment with things

[Laughs].

A little bit, how was your relationship

with falsehood?

Sometimes it's difficult to talk about because it's

a very deep thing.

I knew him like any young person. I

'm young, I

talked a lot with him, and one of the

things we did together was exchange

books. I travel a lot abroad, I

bought books in Brazil, books in

Portugal,

whose themes were very connected to what

he did. So,

a book,

then he would come, pick up the book, read it,

then we would meet in the shade of

my house, we would discuss the books. I'm

remembering now,

one of the last

damned on Earth

and a series of other bibliographies,

and one day he said to me, "Mom, come beside

you,

because you are very similar to my

mother, whom I haven't seen for a long time,

Mom is living now." So it was like that.

An emotional moment.

My relationship was like that.

I always worked with him

when I launched one of my books, which is

now the theme of this...

He was performing in the opera "The Song of the Slaves,"

and he was supposed to be part of it on this album, this opera that we released

on March 10th. But

he passed away the day before, so it

was the 9th.

But it was actually the day before, so

we released to

the public the song he made with us

that will be on this album, which I'm going to

Africa. He does the rap, and Helena is the singer.

Sad, but it's the reality of life.

And the song he made with me,

the song

that Helena sings,

the rap is his own work, so I

act as a kind of producer

because at the time I didn't have

enough audacity yet.

He had a magnificent voice. So,

but there were many dreams, among them

recording, for example, a reggae project

with this wonderful cast,

but anyway, in homage to him, in

his memory, we're going to do something. Anyway,

Mom has very beautiful eyes, they've

always been like that, they didn't

start changing at 25. It's a

genetic thing, part of

my mother's family is like that, part of

my father's family too, and when they started

changing color, I would run to the doctor

thinking it was some problem, but not

later. I was informed that this is

called arcus senilis; as

the eyes grow older, they lighten and

change. My mother passed away with her

eyes completely altered, which is why you,

the lady, are perhaps a defender of this.

Let's see if we

understand, if I understand you.

Polygamy

isn't anything out

of this world, but for me, it's something like this, from what I've been

researching a bit. If you're a lady,

a woman who defends this, and I think it's

rare, right? In the two of us, we have

women who defend polygamy. How is

this something

that's been with you since your

first works? How many years have you been

defending this issue of

polygamy? How did you get there? How did you

see it? How did you think the world

should be this way, that it should be

normalized, for example?

It's a

complex issue because

people

have a habit of trying raw food.

Talking about polygamy isn't defending it; it can be

criticizing, it can be denouncing.

So it's not common

in Mozambican society to see a Black

intellectual. If I were white, they would call me...

and because I wrote about these issues, they

start putting labels on me... Their

ignorance about my personality leads them to

say that polygamy

is a system

built by various societies since

ancient times.

Polygamy has various forms depending on

the culture.

We have polygamy

based on a fence, we have

patriarchal polygamy based on the

priest, and there are many other

aspects of polygamy. So, what

can I study, what can I

recommend to my people? I've studied, and

let me call names, that's what

ignorance dictates. I speak of polygamy

because it's a cultural issue, and speaking of

polygamy, defending it... Since when does it have

good things? It has bad things

too, but people are

interested

in dragging me down because a black woman

is an old woman in a dirty kitchen, she's poor. I

'm an intellectual,

excuse me.

That's a problem.

I've written about various topics, and each

topic is different from the other.

I wrote about women and they

immediately called me a feminist;

I wrote about healers and they called me a

healer

or sorcerer; a sorcerer, or whatever; I

wrote

about slavery and

African liberation and they called me a traditionalist. And the

last book I published,

called "Voice of the Prisoner," I wrote on the

prison walls that I visited in order to

write it. So I'm waiting for

society to call me a criminal because whoever

touches on the subject has to be smeared. So, in the

context of history,

this society isn't prepared for

growth, it does

n't accept it, it's continuously

written by a man

of Christ,

and today it's the most read book

because it's a great contribution to the

construction of African theology. Therefore,

I'm sad that

artists in the beginning weren't seen

in a good light, but the

great revolutionaries, all of them,

were never classified. There was

always a look at

everything that happened against them, but today, unfortunately,

I think it has to do with, I don't know,

our level of literacy or

our general culture.

We are very behind as a people.

I think it's the situation with

Africans, for example, that the further behind

education is, the better, isn't it?

So, for example, reading, reading is

a habit that we don't have. I

'm guilty here. I admit your works

are beautiful, I've read them, but I have

n't picked up one of your books yet, to read or

study a little before this

conversation. Since the day we met, I've known... Yes,

ma'am, you were an example, the

first African woman to win the

Camões Prize. If I'm not mistaken, it wasn't that,

I don't know, it's a... how

can I call it?

A prize that's awarded for how many years?

32 years ago, and you, in 32 years, were the

first African woman, the first

black woman,

because there were Africans, men,

whites, mulattos, black, in the history of the

prize, only the first

[Laughter] It

's incredible.

Congratulations again. I'm

happy this podcast, you know, it's

called Bode, which again, how did it

come about? It's called Bode Moçambique, okay,

and it has a continuation which is the very

bad ones. This is the name of this era, it's called

very bad, and you are truly worthy, a

winner, to be here. To give

this lesson because, in fact, a

very bad person, in this good sense,

but it's all right, I

can say the following: what happens in

our country has to do with education, yes,

but it also has to do with the mental colonization

that produced self-denial

[Music]

in the colonial system. The colonial system,

during the five centuries, always

considered the black person as a cold being.

And the Black person themselves ended up accepting the

status of inferiority, so

we as Black people still haven't gotten used

to thinking that we are capable beings, that

we are thinking beings, and that's why

when society sees a Black woman,

especially a Black woman, asking where

she thinks she's going, I went, I arrived,

I won, so it's necessary to teach this

society that the 500 years

of colonization and the colonizer are gone,

we are the ones who must liberate

our people and their minds, we

have to be warriors of ourselves

and get rid of these crazy ideas in our heads. I am, yes, I

can, I will, and when I fell, I

am 68 years old, I am doing today, I am doing

not because I am special, no.

Maybe the background I had since

childhood gave me this audacity, I

want to live, I want to win,

don't look at age,

sometimes we think that only

those with big degrees win,

Douglas, that's fine,

but I have knowledge

as a person, and I raise the flag of

my culture and I go, and I won an

award for that, so it's necessary to

encourage, above all,

people,

people who today say, "Ah, now what am

I going to do if I went to..." The

reform

reveals what you have inside,

fighting so that this coming generation doesn't

suffer what we suffered in terms of

mental colonization, thinking that the other is

better than me

is a matter of self-esteem. What

people are doing with Paulina's figure

has to do with self-esteem, the

low self-esteem that Black people have for

themselves, but I, a Black woman, have

very high self-esteem and I can fly, and I will.

The feline has to be like that, Mom,

manage to create a group,

create a movement of elderly people

or whatever, and make it happen, even if we're already

without energy to move forward, create a

group, I don't know, talk to the kids

there, create a movement there, bring

people together, start meeting, even if it's just

a round table once a week

or a place.

I said, my steps, if you want to

make a little group, like what's

done well, let's try, Mom will talk, will

stimulate, will tell people, man, let's get

moving, let's do it. It's

happening,

for example, in this last work that

we recorded here, it's

still in progress, the video

we're making, I'm acting alongside

a very special person,

Mr. Antônio. Mr. Antônio

is... An older person

is a very good-humored person, a

natural artist

[in music]

who perhaps didn't have opportunities when they

were younger, but today, with the age and

resources they have, they

do it very well. Sometimes we

also have prejudices that a good voice

can only be made by young people,

those kids who play guitar.

Sometimes we think that a good voice or a

good

cinematic or dramatic performance can only be

achieved because someone went to a very special school,

and when we do that,

we eliminate our own

talents, we

stifle our own talents.

Talent is nature, of course,

school will always help to develop it. Involve him,

but we can never judge

individuals by the number of

books they own, or the number of

bank accounts they have, or whatever

social status they have.

As I said at the beginning, art is the

essence of humanity. If you are a

human being, whoever you are, you have art

within you, old or young, you

will be an example.

Yes, he is a spectacular man. I saw

his energy that day, but it wasn't even

necessary. Here, our friend Eduardo

is telling him, "Mr. Antônio, repeat

nothing." The man even does better than what

was explained.

We will have the opportunity to meet

Mr. Antônio when the video here with his

mother is online. You will see a

synergy between this couple that is, wow,

terrible.

Besides, after this, let's do a

podcast. We will do a

strong job; we will prepare something

interesting here for you to see that

life is beautiful, isn't it? It has to be lived

well, enjoyed. It

's never too late, but

the people here, we are giving

an example,

giving an example. I think it's for his mother; it

will encourage many young people, people

of his age, younger people, that it's

never too late to chase your

dreams, it's never too late to do what

is a dream. Here, for example, sometimes people

think, "Okay, your childhood

must not have been easy back then,

for example, you said your parents wouldn't

allow it, but today you're an

acclaimed writer,

and it's not a notion that awards are

paid for, that we buy, they aren't truly

deserved awards."

It's true, I think it's what young people really

need to follow, to learn, it

's very good, and this energy,

especially this energy that's

here, this beautiful smile,

is incredible,

yes, but there's also another important issue:

we put the material first

and the spiritual side

second.

I know many young people who say, "

Oh, I can't leave school because I do

n't have lunch,

Oh, I can't do this work

because I wasn't given sponsorship."

You know these guys, and there are many,

so it's a dependency,

a feeling of material dependence. It's

fair, it's logical, but

if art is the essence, material things ca

n't be considered essential.

If we look at the great names of

humanity, great artists were very

poor, some were just a few teeth,

but they didn't stop making art. So I

remember now the case of Beethoven, who

died, well, who knows music

exactly, but that didn't stop him from

transmitting to the world what he had. We

have the case of... Let me tell you that I really like

this man.

His story resonates with me to this day

because he was born with sight but had

conjunctivitis and lost his vision.

So he

had a habit, he was starting to develop the

habit of sitting in the street begging for alms. His

mother said, "No,

King Charles,

come home because you have everything to

be someone—strength, intelligence,

willpower to see the outside world, but you also have

eyes to see your inner world."

So,

his biography... he cried,

but something told him that tomorrow he would be

right. He didn't look back, he couldn't

look outside, but he started to look at

what he had inside. And today, King

Charles is a universal reference.

Therefore, I'm not saying that material things

aren't important;

the poorest of the poor can be the

most enlightened and create works of

universal and temporal greatness. It's necessary to

know that this strength exists within each of us.

So, it's a long conversation

too

[Laughs]. What's it like

being an artist in Mozambique, a

person of your caliber? What's this life like, being a

writer? How has everything

been? Is it happy?

I can start by saying the following:

when I go to Brazil, it

's a celebration,

a huge party.

When I go to other

African countries, not so much.

When I go to Portugal,

it's a celebration,

but... When we arrived, it was freezing.

I think you understand

what I mean by that – a lot of

coldness around me. But it won't be

because of what I mentioned,

because this São Paulo, I think, has

reading habits, they know his work, they

know what that means, the impact

of his words. We perceive that they

feed on it, they pass it on. On

one hand, yes, on one hand, yes,

reading is a good thing, but for me,

above all things, there's the issue

of self-esteem. When I went to Angola,

you can't imagine the Festival of my

presence. I

went with my young people at the invitation of

Yuri da Cunha. Okay, for a

celebration, right?

They are students. So, let's do

whatever we want. We

went again at the invitation of Yuri da Cunha and

Fortunato,

we had incredible moments,

and we returned, friends.

Things are improving. There's no doubt,

because, well, I think the

public opinion of other countries

is starting to weigh a little, and they already look at me

with some respect, something very little,

but I believe things will improve.

You are things that change, occupy me.

As a young Mozambican being here, I

see these things, doesn't it? It leaves a little...

the appreciation, even, father, that's what... The

lady said we are valued outside,

yes, inside the home, no, and sometimes

we ourselves even think we are

worthless. My luck was being able to

travel and see my reflection

on the other side of the world, so when I

come back they joke with me here,

they don't know what they're saying, it's better to

forgive. But

we need to value ourselves, we have

unique things, very unique. Today my books

are already theater, they are soap operas, they are

paintings, they are cultures, I mean

producing

a series.

So,

for example,

I've been to Brazil at the

international theology conference, I've been

to Angola at the

theology congress because of the

books I wrote,

those that Mozambicans call "

Before Christ," but others have already seen

that it's a contribution to the construction

of an African theology. So

my life is made of contradictions.

Once I was very

sad, but

a gentleman who is a pastor told

the believers, "Don't read this diabolical thing,"

because of these books I wrote.

Meanwhile, he needed to do a

doctorate in Brazil, and

when he arrives in Brazil, they say, "Sir,

the bibliography is here,

no, this diabolical book, sir, have you read it?" "

No, how can you classify

something you don't know?" "

Look for it." Read the book and then come

do your work. You

had difficulty talking

to me? Of course, you sent people to surround me.

They managed to get the book that a certain Ito,

the healer, sent, the New Testament,

and he wants to do it. Since the tutor

ordered it, I have to read it. That's it. I didn't even

know this story when I least expected it.

Someone is knocking on my door at

home. "

Excuse me, ma'am, I condemned you for never

realizing the vision you have." I

only said, "Look, you are forgiven.

I see that you are honest. I can't

leave you, I can't stop talking about what

is mine because it's a society

that won't condemn, not when God

is on every corner." My culture,

what's the problem? There

were missionaries before me

who wrote about the

subject, but when it's written by a

foreigner, even a missionary, it's

sacred. When it's Paulina, she has to be the

antichrist and a harvester. And what's the

problem? I'd like to be arrested, you know,

but unfortunately,

Paulina is black.

If it were Paulino,

things would improve a little. They would

improve. Worry Lino, well, it seems he

thinks now, "Why don't you stay

in the kitchen? It's complicated." Look, I used to say, I'd really

like to learn, that's

true. But I can't be because I

'm not elected. That's the most

interesting part because the healers at this

point in the elections are making

money. It's not writers who don't earn

anything there, it's the neighborhoods where they can get

votes, to bring down the other, to shine. That's what's

happening, they're making money. They're

eating well

[Laughs].

Of course they do, and if they're part of us,

why can't we talk about these

things? And I do. It's like I'm

denouncing them. Maybe the practices that

others want to respond to, that's

it.

But we'll get out of this someday,

Mom. Another thing, you can live as a

writer, never, never, never, never,

that's not possible. I don't know of any cases in the

world,

I know writers, yes, offices,

writers who write articles for

newspapers to earn a little more

for the family income

of people who really live off art. I'm

thinking now of

Paulo Coelho from Brazil,

he can live off writing because he

sells millions and millions. Exactly, he

can live, but most can't.

We have to do other jobs.

Okay, and at least you, I can

say, are a bit luckier than

others because you're a good

writer, at least

celebrated. As I said, okay. Her

works are still circulating, perhaps not so much

here internally, but more in the interior.

But perhaps the luck that she has is something

many other writers we have here

don't have, right? And I mean, it's really

love, that's it. I ca

n't just be a writer, I can't

live only from that here in Mozambique.

Come on, girl,

my income... I only write books,

my books are sold, I receive from

that, but it's always crumbs

that aren't good for anything, not even to

buy bananas, so it's complicated. It's

really out of love for the job that we do,

and this reality is very common. In several

countries,

there are great authors who sell

more of what we see, best-sellers.

I study that in the United States,

in America, reading, book sales, I think it's

an industry that moves

millions, isn't it, without a doubt?

But in

Europe, many other countries,

people write every day.

For example,

the books that are now in fashion

in Latin America are spiritualist books,

books that talk about the Spirit, I do

n't know, the spirit and witchcraft, those

things, like, the person died, then the

spirit left, then I don't know what, anyway,

spiritualist books sell like 10,000, it doesn't move

a fraction. You

can take two jars to sell, but

spiritualist books fly off the shelves, that

's a different story, a different reality

[Laughter]

those are the ones that make money, there are

stories about spirits that came

later, that were later, that were later, that were later, that were later, that were later, that were later, that were later, that were later, that were later,

true or false,

spirits can't be seen, so they talk

about the invisible,

it's a good business

[Laughter]

let's go, on our program, it started there,

today we're going back, back, back, let

's see how far we get, but

Mrs. Paulina Lia here too, you,

in the times when you started, you were

part of our party, the party was there, it was

during the time of the armed struggle

that you joined, you stayed there,

when you met these people, all of them, did you ever have any contact

with them, how was

your time there?

From when did you go until where did you go

and how is

your situation now?

First, it's necessary to know the history

of the liberation movements to be

able to make a judgment,

the liberation movement has several

phases, several stages and several arenas,

one of the arenas was the armed wing that

was in the bush,

other arenas were the clandestine struggles,

so I was always in Maputo, I

always worked with

a group of young people,

we We did clandestine work,

one time

my team and I

had to

spread leaflets about Frelimo

on the factory gates,

I know, through the windows.

Each one of us would spread them on the ground, late into the

night.

The Colonial Police caught me when I

saw the police car. I grabbed the

leaflets, measured them inside the

drop boxes. The police said, "Hey

boy, what happened?" "Oh, I'm not here, I'm from the

hospital where I took my

mother. Look, it's dangerous to walk at night,

girl." They

even gave me a woman and took me

home.

My colleagues, the guys who were more

agile, some escaped, others were arrested. The

leader of our team at the time

was the late José

and other people who are still alive, for

example, Matias, well, there

was the late

Matias' wife, Angelina, Rogério, who

was the mayor.

Where did we do it? Because it was

a printed leaflet.

So I

had great moments. Now it

's important to know that the word Frelimo

means Liberation Front of

Mozambique,

a front

for everyone. I was part of the front.

Now, when it comes to dependency, it

transforms into a political party and

becomes a profession. Some people,

I said, "Political profession, don't let me

do my things the way I want." I

understand, I don't know if I explained myself well. I

was part of the front, not the party;

they are two very distinct realities that

sometimes need to be

analyzed.

The movement is a popular movement;

the party is more restricted. Nothing

happened;

I simply didn't want to make

politics my profession.

So, soon after Independence, you

started a while ago, then you

were never involved in it again. I prefer to do

other things. Art needs

freedom.

I can't make art,

nor can I do what I want, if I

'm linked to institutions like

my party. I can't

betray the party line; my church

can't betray the principles of my

congregation. I told him, "

I was born to fly, let me be free." I left all that behind.

Today I'm not

linked to any institution; that gives me

that freedom. Whether it's

church,

party, or observer, I do what I have to

do and I'll leave free. So, if

there's something that displeases me, that

disappoints me, I have enough freedom and authority

to criticize it.

I'm not linked to anyone and I'd like to

die like that

[Laughs]

peacefully,

without loving them. Why? And your life has

been like this, living like this, you've had a

happy life, you've flown, how you've enjoyed it.

As I said, this

freedom has made sense, I

feel it to the extent that wherever I

go, in any space in the world, I

affirm myself first as Mozambican,

second as African, and third as a

human being. I have this freedom and I don't

have those restrictions, like, "Oh, I

can't say that, no, my

church will take me away in its suitcase, I'm not

free." And that's precisely why I've managed to

get so far, because freedom is the

most precious gift of all

human beings. So I don't want to be tied to

anything.

Very deep conversations here, every

time I listen I'm

thinking about my next question,

but no, no, let's not stay too long, we've already had

almost an hour of conversation, we still have

more work to do, otherwise the mother of the

house,

for what we want to do, might

not be in the mood anymore.

But what message would you

leave for young people,

for youth

at this time, tonight? What is your

position?

Each time has its own law and each generation

has its own challenge, it has

difficulties, today it fights and wins.

When I was young, our challenge was the

colonial system, we fought and we won. The struggle

is all in the subtext, that's it,

never expect the other to give you

freedom, fight for it, never expect

bread to come to your hand, just sow, that's all.

When are we going to release the video, Mom,

what's your prediction?

[Music]

Two,

he says two weeks, so it's the day, let's go, the

14th, the 15th, around there, prediction, we have the

video ready,

make a timeline here for this

episode to air at that time,

so

ladies and gentlemen,

I hope you enjoyed it,

absorbed it,

she had it when she had a little bit here,

maybe because of the lights,

outside of this, it's for this lady, it's another, I do

n't know why, she's a little

shy,

but she has a smile, a laugh, it's

contagious, but the person

is really young inside, the white hair

makes her more beautiful, sexier,

very happy, Mom, once again I thank you for

the time you made available

to be here chatting with

strangers like me, that's what

young people can be inspired by,

team, let's have more now, can I

read a little more, mine, today we are

all stuck, I read the information that

is on the phone here in tiny letters. We do

n't have the habit of reading,

at least not for ourselves at home. We're

trying to introduce it to our children

to see if they become different from their

parents, you know?

But it's important, right?

Anything else? Thank you very much and see you soon.

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[Music]