Harrisburg City Planning Commission Meeting - October 2, 2024

like to call the Harrisburg commission

to W at approximately

635 uh Commissioners you received your

August 20 24 meeting minutes are there

any changes deletions

additions if not I like you got a motion

for

approval is there a second second it's

been moved and second for approval of

the men as they are all those in favor

state by saying I I opposed motion

carries under o business the first item

is a special exception application for

2743 North Front Street which is Zone RF

is followed by Justin

Hershey with First Choice Home Buyers to

establish a Supportive Housing facility

on site are the applicants

here well we'll move on and if they come

in sure

uh the second item is the preliminary

Land Development plan for uh application

for 1103 South Front Street this is Zone

Riverfront it's filed by the Steven

Steven Stillers tunnel to Towers

Foundation associated with the

construction of transitional housing

development featuring a 64 unit multi

family dwelling including services for

residents and 20 detach confer home

uh well I believe the Commissioners

reviewed uh this or heard the review of

this case and the discussion of the case

at the September 4th meeting uh the

Commissioners uh asked the applicants to

go back out and hold a public meeting uh

with uh members of the sh neighborhood

association uh which I believe they've

done um I I don't have a documentation

on that so I can't Prov

from the planning bureau's perspective

but perhaps the applicants

can okay um gentlemen

and good evening Che your name and

address I'm Bruce from

3631 Street Harrisburg representing the

applicant of Steven S Tunnel to Towers

Foundation joining me is G he can

introduce himself kin NES and vice

president of the tunnel to Towers

Foundation 2361 Highland St Island okay

is there anyone else that's going to be

speaking David could you take your name

and

addressy

okay first Mr chairman I'd like to make

a request um procedural request the uh

Plan before you was uh labeled a

preliminary plan but it contains

information uh that would be in a

combined preliminary final plan so uh we

would like to request

that this consideration be deemed for

the preliminary final plan um it has

almost all the same information except

for some technical notes um uh and that

would be ordinarily filled in between

the time of this hearing and the

submission to the city council uh anyhow

so um we uh informed Mr Knight's office

and solicitor Grover's office of this

request

previously is that and the city is no

objection that actually is closer to the

norm of what we do is do the as

preliminary final

plans okay what I would like to get from

everyone in your group here is an update

from what we requested certainly I'd

like to start with that on September 20

um staff from the foundation met with

approximately 30 residents in SHO

including mayor Williams was present um

for more than two hours um and there was

a discussion of several issues with the

mayor some of which were concerning the

impact of this project on their

neighborhood um and frankly um get in

the distance and different groups um uh

we explained that we don't anticipate a

significant impact on their neighborhood

then on September 30 um solicitor Grover

helped facilitate a stakeholders meeting

between uh the owners of the uh property

um and green belt um and uh the owners

expressed uh grave concerns about

Security on the property um things have

uh damage has been done uh even to V's

property uh such as um uh motorcycle

riders motorbike Riders tearing up their

grounds uh even after uh the chairman

asked them to leave and explain that it

was private property and it's posted as

private property um gas has been

siphoned out of the cars of Staff during

the

daytime uh pendot has erected a chain

link fence around their employee parking

lot for security and so the owners

explained that um they they they

understand that it's not green belt

members per se that are doing the damage

but when the property is open to the

green belt it's open to the public and

that is an unacceptable security risk um

uh the discussion then turned to

possible Alternatives and we understand

and I'm sure Mr Hill from uh Green Belt

will say more about other possible

Alternatives um that meeting uh included

um the current owners of the property

greenbell the city and mayor Williams

was

present

okay Commissioners I don't know I'll

come back to you I have the public speak

first

okay um if the public is here and you

have U you agree with the the conditions

of the um of this project and or if you

don't agree with it um if you could

stand and state your name and your

address and I'll start to my left is

there anyone for this project or against

this

project you stand and state your name

and address

you for against you

okay do you have any reasons or just

against it

oh my name is pardon me sir uh would you

be able to come up to the mic for the

benefit of the

recording hello my name name is Timothy

bosk I'm a Harrisburg homeowner who

lives about a block away from the green

belt and I'm also a two tour combat

veteran Another

War as a veteran I understand the

importance of taking care of our

nation's veterans however I don't

believe that the tunnel Towers

Foundation is acting in the best

interest of Harrisburg and

citizens I find their excuse that the

proposed compromised location of the

trail will rob Veterans of their dignity

and safety to be disingenuous and

insulting veterans do not need to be

hidden and sheltered away from the

communities like Paras they need to be

integrated to the

communities the green belt is a major

attraction for the city and can used by

the veterans of this proposed uh

development T Towers should want to have

a safe space for veterans to be part of

the Harrisburg

Community um we we want as a veteran I

want safe housing for Veterans but I

don't want the city to be robbed of

something that's a jam of the city

that's beloved by the whole city thank

you

is there anyone else to my left you come

to the

microphone state your name and address

yeah Bruce Weber 428 Bo Street I don't

have anything prepared um but

uh there are moments

when uh the direction of the

Future come to a single point and you

can either go down One path or you can

go down another path unfortunately the

future you know is unknown and it's only

in hindsight that you know whether that

path that you've chosen is correct or

not there is no

question that this is one of those times

the green belt is

a gem

unique and

a a asset of this city that once

squandered and lost cannot and will not

be

regained and the cascading consequences

of that will be dire for economic

development for

Community for

recreation for the Civic life of

Harrisburg it is

fundamental to our identity

and I understand the

situation here the issue of private

property the issue of access the issue

of safety the issue of Veteran

needs

however this is bigger than all of those

combined it is about where we are going

as a city what we want to be as a city

and having and and losing just a little

bit of that can have effects that down

the line will be detrimental to uh the

the the the place that we call home here

in Harrisburg uh and as a Civic Gem and

asset as I said for the for the for the

for the the the community here as well

as the broader community at large and

squandering that has to be taken with

careful consideration and should be

tried to be preserved by any means

necessary there has to be a way to find

compromise and a solution that works for

everybody I understand Peggy I get I

don't have I if I if I had the money I

absolutely would excuse me excuse me

Peggy please

don't you have your chance okay thank

you very much I appre

is there anyone else to my

left

okay St your name and address Mary

Martin Bill 722 shower

Street I have no objection to ten

tunnels to hours and their

goals and their distress at having gas

siphoned and people destroying their

property I understand because we have

that too in shoke all the time it's

being part of the

neighborhood so you've got to find a way

to deal with that without shutting

yourself off from the rest of the

neighborhood and the city that's all

thank you thank you anyone else to my

left

not we'll go to the

center state your name and address good

evening I'm Doug Hill and 709 Green

Street Harrisburg and I'm president of

the capito area Green Belt Association

it's good to be with you again uh it has

been a long journey that we've been on

in trying to find a solution

uh to the continuity of the green belt

here in South Harrisburg uh I do want to

say thank you to the city for putting

together the stakeholder meeting the

other night and thank you for all those

in the room because there are quite a

few of them who were participants in

that meeting I'll mention as well that

uh the mayor was there and there were

also representatives from Eden Village

and from VOA who participated as well so

it really was uh a broad stakeholders

meeting uh I also appreciate the

comments uh were just made the green

belt is a genuine long-term asset uh for

the city and continues to be and it is

an attraction uh not just for the

residents of the city but our neighbors

and for people who are visiting the city

for other reasons and so the green belt

Association while it doesn't own any

piece of the trail uh our mission is to

assure that the trail is properly

developed properly maintained and

properly preserved for those in the

future and that's what we've been trying

to do as part of reaching a solution

here uh I will also uh reiterate think

com couple comments I made at prior

meetings the green belt uh is a good

neighbor uh We've demonstrated that for

more than 30 years now uh as many of you

know because I know many of you are

users uh the green belt goes through

literally every type of neighborhood in

the city every type of residential area

uh at one time it passed through the

grounds of the Dolphin County Nursing

Home it goes through uh histor

properties uh parts of the trail go

right past people's backyards and their

Gardens and we don't get any complaints

at all about the users uh I do truly

regret what's been happening with vpa I

saw the video today of someone doing

donuts on a motorcycle in on in their

yard uh and that is remarkably

regrettable and I I can't begin to

imagine the frustration that they're

experiencing with those kinds of

behaviors and those kind of behaviors

frankly have made our negotiations with

tunnel to towers and with the property

are that much more difficult uh and so

the juncture where we find ourselves now

is that we appear to be at a place where

we cannot reach an accommodation on

working the trail through the tunnel the

tower's property uh in a different place

in time we may have been able to work

that out uh and maybe sometime uh in the

future that might be something that's

workable uh once they're in and

established and it becomes a

neighborhood again rather than a

construction site uh but that does not

seem to be something for the immediate

future uh as a result uh we had already

been doing our due diligence uh in

finding uh appropriate and safe routes

for the trail we've uh executed an

agreement with an engineering firm uh

and we are exploring a number of

different Alternatives I'm not in a

position to describe where they are we

did talk about those a littleit a little

bit at your last meeting in in broadest

terms uh but what our objective is is to

find a way to ensure that the connection

is there that this continues to be a

solid route that encircles the entirety

of the city that is available for uh

public transportation for recreational

use uh for use of visitors uh for the

use of families and others uh and that

it is safe that it is convenient that is

environmentally sound and is one that's

going to be a credit to the city and

credit to coming Generations uh we have

commitments from those here at the table

that uh they will assist us in those

reviews uh the we have commitments from

the city as well uh very candidly some

of the Alternatives that we're looking

at are going to be considerably more

expensive than uh had we been able to

use some of the existing trail system

that's been historic in South Harrisburg

uh but those are those are simply

hurdles that we are going to have to

overcome in the short term but uh that

that's the situation where we find

ourselves uh I will also reiterate

comments that we made previously uh we

are we were supportive and continue to

be supportive of opa uh we have

expressed that support for tunnel to

towers and we have expressed that

support for Eden Village because they

are uses uh withing approaches to

Veterans and homelessness uh that we

think are important uh to the fabric of

this community and to help the community

in many ways so I do appreciate the

consideration that you've been giving us

uh in each step of this process and

we'll be happy to work with you and

happy to answer any questions okay thank

you is there anyone else microphone

state your name and

address my name is William cogi C o l o

g IE and I live at 1401 South Cameron

Street which is the corner of Cameron

and Magnolia which is right across the

street from the Green Belt I've lived

there over 40 years I've owned three

dogs all of whom live to be more than 12

years old who I walked daily on the

Green Belt uh I am a long time time user

of the green belt I believe a lot of the

concerns raised about Mischief along the

green belt are

overstated uh in all those times you

like I usually took a trash bag along

with me when walking the dog and police

the green belt as I went uh I don't

recall finding drug paraphernalia on any

of those walks uh as a green belt

volunteer I did help clean up the

homeless camp that was temporarily on

the green belt and that was the only

time I found evidence of drug use along

the green belt um it is indeed a

treasure I'm also a bicyclist and I used

to be able to leave my home and bicycle

all the way up town and around the green

belt and I haven't been able to do that

because that would take me in a heavy

traffic area on Cameron Street I live

there I know how fast the cars go it's

not a really safe place to Bicycle I

unfortunately coming down Sycamore

Street one evening uh right when pendot

was getting out of work there was heavy

traffic and I thought I would cut

through the parking lot of the county

building unfortunately I kind of hit

their driveway sideways and fell

breaking three ribs in my collar bone

and spent most of this biking season

with my arm and a sling uh that wouldn't

have happened had we not had the detour

uh it it is a public safety issue indeed

I can vouch for that firsthand and i

would support know I have no objection

whatsoever to the veterans coming into

my neighborhood in fact I wrote to Mr

Zimmerman welcoming him to the

neighborhood trying to be as gracious as

I could never hurt back uh but uh you

know I I would really in hope that we

have continue with that safe traffic

safe pedestrian bridge over the railroad

tracks it's incredibly convenient and

wonderful and I hope we can have that

going forward thank you very

much okay thank you anyone else in the

center

okay to my right is there anyone for

against this

project you state your name and address

uh my name is stepen Holmes uh live in

3782 Dairy Street Harrisburg and I'm a

veteran

uh I've listened

to basically all the different sides and

different things that folks are trying

to do and yes I am biased toward the

veterans I me we're looking at

housing over 100 Veterans to change

their lives men and women that have did

everything this country has asked them

to do and to be able to support the

tunnel for Towers is a is a major

accomplishment for me and as far as uh

that's concerned I'm the have also the

commander of Harrisburg Legion Post 733

in the city and one of the things I

noticed about

when there's a neighborhood where

there's a veterans organization or

Legion it betters the neighborhood we

actually met set the example of what

other neighbors should do when when we

look at our properties look at what we

do the biggest thing that I have here

I'm listening to

compromise compromise

compromise and to me there's no way that

we should not be able to move forward

with this with a compromise there's 20.9

miles of green belt and

Harris there has to be a feasible way to

be able to compromise so that we can get

this tful Towers project up and moving

on behalf of these young men and women

that are sitting there we don't even

know how many folks are out there just

waiting on something to change their

lives they've paid the price they've

done what America asked them to do and

we can't tell you cannot tell me that we

cannot

compromise period

on whether it's tunn for Towers green

belt in order to get this project over

the finish line there's no

way other than that thank you very

much anyone else to my

right state your name and address my

name is Ken

stau I'm one 696 brania Court in

Harrisburg I'm a retired army attack

helicopter pilot um I'm currently

serving as the Dolphin County commander

of the American Legion representing over

5,000 households I'm also representing

the 19th District of lemin County kland

County and Dolphin County encompassing

over 9,000 households I'd like to thank

everybody for what they're doing I was

very pleased to hear the willingness to

to compromise and continue the work of

the green belt I grew up along the green

belt out on Dairy Street

and thank you that's all I'm going to

say this this is deeply

appreciated anyone else to my

right state your name and address John

Hickey 391 pamade Drive Mechanics for

Pennsylvania um

I uh am a member of the veterans

Outreach of Pennsylvania Board and we I

wanted to say as an organization we do

support this project I've spoken in

support of it before um what we are

doing at vpa is really sort of an

intensive onsite Therapy Program um I'm

pleased to tell you tonight that we've

already had two folks go through our

first phase um we have a four-phase

program and after 90 days one of them

was able to reconcile with their family

and move back home and another one has

found an apartment and and seeking

prepared a resume did those other things

so our program is had it's it's very

baby steps now at the beginning but

we've already had some success um we

view the tunnels to Towers project as

another Outlet once our folks get well

enough to move to that next phase of

living more independently outside of the

group therapy that we provide um we view

that as something that would be very

beneficial to the city and we look

forward to having them as neighbors um

to address some of the other things were

said tonight we also appreciate um what

has gone on um but I will tell you the

when we talk about Safety and Security

it's not a question of whether the folks

that use the green belt the majority of

the folks that use the green belt are

doing so um particularly the green belt

members Mr Hill and it's they they've

marked it they've they've said where

where are you're supposed to turn around

and not come back on private property

we've had Fairly persistent and

insistent um trespassing even during the

construction phase um people that are

mad people that Express frustration and

and the folks that we are serving are

very vulnerable population these are

folks that have substance use disorder

they've got um um PTSD there's a lot of

things going on so we do I understand

you you say you want to integrate those

folks back in they're not ready for that

yet or they wouldn't be living um

outside so we we do feel that it's a

safety issue for us and I do appreciate

we had had a long discussion with Mr

Hill before the meeting the the thinking

that's gone into some of the alternative

plans that are being proposed and I hope

that we'll remove conditions that had

been earlier proposed for this approval

thanks okay um I'm gonna go oh okay

state your name and address yep I'm uh

Ed jerro at 1521 North 2 Street in

Harrisburg um I attended last month's

Miss meeting I did attend the shyo

meeting which I thought was very nice

for the record I'll just share and I'm

not speaking for the sh people since I

live in Midtown I think the meeting was

an hour of actual public meeting and

then I think you know most people left

and there was I'm sure a continuing

conversation I will share that um my

friend that lives down there said that

they never got the mail notice and the

people did acknowledge that they put

some kind of notice in the mail but I

think a lot of people didn't get it

there were there was well attended and I

would say that everybody down there no

one was against having the you know the

people down there but um they're they

are definitely challenged a lot of ways

I think from people in their area um you

know Etc but that's really not my point

I'm here about the green belt and so I'm

just from tonight's presentation I'm

really disappointed that I didn't hear

any alternative plans from the applicant

right that I think people said hey we'd

like to have it go this way in fact you

know the planning director last month

had I think it was option one laid out a

plan there's been no plan on impact to

say hey if we follow what the city wants

to do we're going to be to only serve

fewer people or whatever whatever and so

i' I'm not a lawyer I'm not an engineer

but I did a little Google in and chat

GPT and I I really think you guys should

recommend a city council exploring the

use of eminent domain what I've read is

that eminent domain can be used for

public good it's usually used for roads

and bridges and forms of

transportation and I think in this case

and I want to be very clear that the

seller does get compensated so that's

all I know about it but I think you guys

represent the people and I understand

you make a recommendation to city

council and I think you would recommend

I hope you recommend the city council to

explore that it may help with some of

these negotiations it may level the

playing field I mean right now I get it

everyone acknowledges in the green belt

they're not an owner but they've said

they don't have a legal leg to stand on

right but you do have a leg to stand on

you can step up for all the people

because I've myself have talking about

10 people just socially that I know and

when you say they're going to reroute

all this everybody their jaw drops okay

the every no one's against the veterans

but this is really a big issue so I hope

you can explore or recommend the city

council that they explore eminent domain

so we can support the planning

director's original option number one

thank

you there anyone else to my

right

Peggy wish you would but yes you can

the ren belt was a guest Peggy St your

name oh pardon me Peggy Grove um I live

at 2920 Parkside Lane which is on the

Italian Lake I was a former resident for

11 years in shipoke um almost down to

where the um there's been a lot of

problems um attending the shy pooke

meaning I was abored by what they are

putting up with and it's not just

homeless problems it's also problems

with the Harrisburg University students

that have been abusive to the residents

of shipoke Etc there's many problems in

in shipoke right now that they are

putting up with and I don't know how

they do it um if I lived down there

there' have been petitions and city

council would have heard from me a long

time ago so so um that's in support of

shoke I think once the the um homeless

encampment that's on uh Alex grass's

trust property and Alex grass for your

information owned 54 of all these Acres

all the way from shipoke down to the

point where um vpa is that it where the

Paxton Creek goes into the um Aris I

mean the sesana river we also have a

piece of property that is landlocked

because it's behind the um the

sanitation um property I paid taxes on

all of this for 29 years regardless of

whether I had access or not I could have

have uh petitioned the city to try and

give me access but looking at the health

and safety issues regarding um

sanitation um plants Etc and all of the

terrorism and all the other things that

we have unfortunately had to deal with

in the past um 20 years it's got up

certainly uptick by comparison what it

was when I was

younger um anyway I chose not to do that

but the only way to access that um six

some OD acres and it was owned by um

previously by the Harrisburg Authority

and I it was a quick claim deed so I

talked vpa into taking that along with

the rest this and I told them I'd buy

them some rowboats and that they can do

um sustainable Gardens perhaps grow

vegetables Etc in the future or make a

place um of of you know a timeout maybe

for someone that uh just couldn't live

at all within the structure that they

have of the tiny houses but they'll use

the land in some manner or another and I

told them I'd buy the rowboats so um

just a a a funny aside

um Green Belt

wanted to use the

Riverside they

unfortunately I think that there was a

mixup in you with the people term the

access road both by perhaps some of the

staff of the city as well as

others when we were talking about the

access road we were talking about the

east side of the property that I paved

and put the utilities in so that vpa

would have access to City

Utilities um and that was at my own

expense I donated the land to vopa along

with that six mod Acres of the

landlocked um land um and I'm probably

going to be donating the land to Eden

Village because they are having trouble

raising the money and that's going to be

affordable housing at $300 a month for

people who are transitioning and to keep

them from going on the streets coming

from shelters coming from the YWCA or

whatever whether it be a man or a woman

inead a household with some children to

keep them safe and to give them a chance

to get some

education um and I'm sure wendle wendle

will speak to this later and I'm not

going to St seal his his information but

um they'll get some um training and

budgeting

and uh hopefully some maybe some ideas

on how to get a better job so that they

can be self-supported Etc um anyway when

I first did the when I first was

approached by vpa

um and then I was approached by Ian

Village and then when John Hickey who's

on the Voca board brought me tumbls to

Towers I was just thrilled um I anyone

who knows me knows that I have done a

lot in the city of Harrisburg a lot of

of donating plus I've been supportive of

of several groups in the city of

Harrisburg that help women children um I

gave scholarships and have for 30 years

even when I didn't have the money I gave

scholarships because somebody saved me

when I was a child I was very we I came

from very astute poverty and

abuse um so I understand what these

people are going through and and I

trying my best to leave a

legacy for the city of Harrisburg and

for those people who are not able to

take care of themselves and I have made

an offer to the uh Green Belt to help

them if they have to purchase the

land one of the three um potential um

ways that they are going to um attempt

to um continue that rib we called it a a

ribbon a green ribbon around the city of

Harrisburg I have always been supportive

of of of um the green belt always um but

this in this circumstance it's not just

the green belt that's being led in it is

the public and that's the

problem um the public has not got the

respect nor the the same kind of U value

system possibly that the green bill

members do and um it's it's

important that as you've heard from

various different sunry people here that

these people be protected this is an

isolated

area um up until 20 22 which is two

years ago I had someone go in my staff

go in there at 6 am in the morning 2

o'clock in the afternoon plus I had

off-duty police that would go in there

at night and use spots you know

spotlights like they um they use for

hunting to make sure that I never had

homeless down there naive me I thought

these people were trying to tint

Camp when I had a few at one time or

another um but I see now just recently

as Saturday night when I got stuck by

the bridge there were three different

people because three suitcases three

remnants of clothes Etc um that I

removed um that uh indicate that the

homeless are are migrating down there

and I haven't had that ever I mean I

caught them early and um

so I don't know if there is a way um to

do security I know that is coming but

tunnels to Towers is going to have um a

wall around around their property um for

their health and safety as well as um to

make it it seems safe and um and open

for the people who are going to live

there um some of it is going to be

permanent housing for the veterans and

I'm sure there's going to be um certain

standards that they're going to ask them

to um to abide by and I'm sure that they

will be good neighbors

um and U the people in shipoke that I

spoke to individually after the group

meeting all said that they're are are

welcoming tunnels to Towers um there's

not one of them that was against that

they were upset about all the things

happening with the homeless and when

they heard that this was a homeless

project they assumed that people were

going to be homeless and and War tin

Village or whatever prior to it being

built so I think there was a lot of

confus Fusion plus um John Hickey

fortunately had some information about

some of their specific questions about

um Megan's Law and things like that um

so that their questions I I think were

very aptly answered and um and if there

needs to be more meetings like that for

other neighborhoods I I I think we can

arrange that uh I was very pleased that

the mayor was able to accompany us thank

you very much for listening

okay thank you and I'm sorry but I have

tonight okay thank

you

commissioner don't have a specific

question but uh we'll see if you have

any concerns um

commissioner Jeffrey uh just to refresh

our everybody's memory here we the uh

planning's position is the approval

subject to four conditions

correct uh yes okay and we're the

applicants in agreement with the first

three of the of the uh yes all right so

and again gives the the what the four uh

the fourth condition which is the bone

of contention here what's uh yes so the

the fourth condition as uh referenced in

the pling bureau's case report was that

the project uh will accommodate a

relocated footprint of the capital are

green belt including the removal of the

proposed vehicular gate and fence across

the existing connection to the green

belt where the emergency access road

along the western portion of the site

and to be clear that is the emergency

access road that the planning Bureau has

referred to

um intersect where the

uh Access Road along the western portion

of the site intersects with the Dolphin

County General Authority property uh and

then based on the proposed site design

uh the green belt could be accommodated

across the southern boundary of the

property connecting the existing bridge

over the railroad tracks to the

emergency access road along the western

boundary of the property all right yeah

I have nothing further to add I mean we

went through this last week or last

month and apparently nothing has changed

so I have nothing to add okay uh

commissioner re oh I have no

questions commissioner

M um thank you Jeff for um reviewing

that fourth condition uh that we are

requesting I am not hearing a solution

or a

resolution to address that condition

otherwise I'm also not

hearing a Sol solution to move forward

with that condition um I understand

there have been conversations which is

great but I do not hear what we are

requesting uh this

evening so Mr chairman if I may just

because we did host the stakeholders

meeting just to talk about it seemed

important to get

everybody who was involved because this

has problem in part has been you have a

singular issue in front of you which

can't resolve the other properties

you just can't you can't you can't

impose on the neighboring property

condition they're not before you want it

it's happened three times now it's going

to happen for a third time in your other

thing because they because you have one

application for one development after

it's

subdivided um so what I would say came

out of that and who was not in the

meeting but has been in different

discussions as well is the city did talk

to the dolin County General Authority

representative pend representative dcnr

representative um

that I think the commitment across the

board is that the green belt would have

to be redirected with these developments

I don't think the commitment is there

across the board to make it a

safe

uh continuation of the green belt so it

can be a closed loop I think the reality

which people just have to look at is

that that takes time when you're dealing

with multiple government agencies at the

state and local level I mean you're

dealing three different levels of

government um and and anyone who says it

can happen like that has not dealt with

government um right so I'm saying that's

so I think everyone in that discussion

wants the Green Belt to finish the loop

it has moved its path in the past uh it

has had been required to particularly on

County Land um and it's been an evolving

issue if if you remember the original

presentation it was originally conceived

a 100 years ago it was

reinvigorated in 1990 as the current

Association to bring back things that

were lost um and and this is not a

recommendation the city did not come

into this meeting that they had they

simply asked that everyone basically

State what the needs of their particular

organization was their particular entity

trying to come to you know uh the city

tries not to see this as veterans

housings versus the Green Belt I mean

because both are of value to the city of

Harrisburg the people that live here and

the housing is a very real issue for the

city um the homeless issue that is down

there frankly is completely separate and

a whole different problem and the city's

painfully aware of it and not just us

but every local government's dealing

with a homeless surge everywhere um and

we are in constant meetings with the

state and the county trying to find

solutions to those problems um this

won't solve those problems right just it

just won't that's a different issue uh

people going onto people's properties

what's

that the veteran hous will not solve the

current homeless problems and it's not

intended to solve the homeless problem

in Harrisburg it's simply going to

provide a group of underserved folks

some of who are homeless and alternative

housing that is also desperately needed

but there's lots of housing that is

needed um so uh the question is if

everyone's able to basically Take the

Long View I mean because it is the Long

View um versus the short view I mean you

know uh the Long View is both things are

of value uh both both things have to

somehow move forward housing has to

happen and and this is one the second of

third for this particular one and far

from the last one that has to happen to

provide housing and the green belt has

to continue both things are real um the

reality is the city has no appropriation

for a public taking which is eminent

domain right and that's what would have

to happen to take private property um

but there's is as I heard it a

commitment from Mr Grove to contribute

to them having alternative path pend do

had advised me that if dcnr is on board

they would want to be at the table the

dcnr actually I sat through an a meeting

about providing a supplemental

alternative Grant application from the

city on behalf of the green belt to

redirect it but that one was over the

private land we're talking about so that

sort of stopped right where it was but

they were willing to entertain uh an

application to per to help the green

belt be relocated but those are all

really I mean an engineer has to get

involved an engineer has to say what's

safe and what's unsafe everyone knows

this borders up to places that are very

dangerous on the road uh and and someone

has to come up with a plan and a

financial ability to do it that is

simply a long-term issue it's there's no

quick solution and um

and allowing or not allowing will not

change that reality it's a long-term

problem but one that is I think people

are committed to continue to fix I mean

over time um but I I just give you that

as the benefit of what the what we at

least what I took out of that meeting of

all those people I don't think anyone

was there in bad faith I don't think

anyone was there unaware of each other's

needs it was just really just trying to

solve a problem where people as Mr Weber

said it's a point where you have it

seems there's two different issues and

the path has to be picked I would

suggest that there's not just one path I

would suggest that alternatives are

available if they're just going to take

time um so I I have two questions to

follow up on that um

is there so out of this the meeting I'll

direct these questions maybe towards the

city um out of the meetings that have

occurred since our last discussion on

this project um till now and of the

conversations that have been had is

there anything in writing at this point

in

time

around the solutions that were being

talked about for the green belt is there

anything in writing there is not and

think there can be because it also

involves other property owners that have

to be negotiated with as well I mean I

think that's one of the realities you

stated that there's been multiple people

that are making claims in good faith

efforts that they will make a monetary

Don you know contribution or that they

will you know be involved on a safety

evaluation or a grant you know

assistance there it's not in writing

that these are discussions is there a

possibility to create a document um like

an enter

interorganizational

document can the green Bel Green Belt

facilitate an agreement document again I

think that's long term that's not short

term I understand that I'm asking but

I'm asking the question because if

something is not put in writing and a

solution is not

actually in concrete I don't see then I

don't see this you're you're forcing us

to make a decision based on just what

we're we're being told but we're not

actually seeing real viable Solutions

here in writing or real agreements in

place so and you're right we are at a

pivotal pivotal moment here of having to

pick one and sacrifice another I don't

want to have to sacrifice either thing

here I'm with you 100% so so I what I

can tell you in terms of the history of

the city with the green belt is there

have been many many agreements over the

years as different stages of it happened

it's been pretty routine but they're all

unique from each other because each

piece of development is unique from each

other so to me it's sort of part of the

routine of when these things move along

I mean the project they've been doing to

uh improve the green belt in the last

few years that brought five or six

different granting agencies together but

that was a long separate process that

had to be put United there's no one

thing that can make it happen so I think

I mean I guess the question is is there

any reason to believe that can't

continue to happen I mean that because

that is how the Green Belt has developed

slowly piece by piece by very

good-hearted committed people who stay

at stay here and stay going to agencies

and do the lobbying to get the the

funding and frankly it is the green belt

people who've done it the city has come

along with it all the way but that has

not changed under four different

administrations I mean that has been how

how the Green Belt has stayed here and

been built and I think it is you have to

I believe people have to have faith in

the long term that people of good faith

can still accomplish things together um

and and I realize people would like

something writing this scenario doesn't

make that possible because we're talking

lands being divided to three separate

owners all have contingents on buying

and building and and there's just and

there's an existing owner on top of that

and there's no way to do that and then

get a County Board to vote on the one

side and get pend out to commit on the

other side I mean there's simply you

know there's a highway that requires a

highway Ox be permit on the other end of

this place um so there is I don't think

anyone who work in this field can say

you can tell you what the solution is

but agreement after agreement has been

arrived at over the years I can't

guarantee anything I don't attend to

guarantee anything I'm just telling you

I don't think the city sees it at one as

as one of the other can exist I think

that both need to exist and then the

city has a job to do to make them work I

mean and I think everybody who's rowing

the boat is in that same

place as a cynical old man I still have

optimism on a few things in life so that

is that is surpris well said Neil so

you're saying you you are H you're on

board I don't

know Joe I have a clarifying question

the other because I really feel uh what

commissioner Merck was saying that we're

just sort of being told stuff I know

last time there were visual depictions

of various things regarding this

particular parcel of land and

alternatives are the other alternatives

that we hope would be would happen in

the good faith further efforts of these

parties that are before us and it sounds

like other property owners who are not

do those Alternatives involve this

parcel of land no okay so it would be

rerouting the G up onto other things

where so if this approval goes through a

build of these many tiny homes would not

sort of then change the equities of this

situation where we already built all

this stuff and now we're trying to

change something

right I mean that's the thing I this the

the As I understood coming out of that

meeting these Parcels of land were not

going to be where the path was and

alternative to the path would be made uh

and with very clear discussions about

safety about line of sight about what

would and won't work and people willing

to say while that might sound like a

good idea that isn't safe you know you

may think it's safe but those kind of

discussions actually have to happen in

real time with people who are trained to

come up with the path and do the work I

mean and so it's not really something we

can speculate about which is the best

one but there's going to be even more

than one option it's just you got to do

the work to get to that option thank you

and that that truly was a clarifying

question I share all the concerns about

just the basic lack of any control or

anything in writing that we would have

after this point but it so but what it

sounds like these alternatives are do

not involve this piece of land so that

was my that was my question

Jeff do you have

any to add um not really in the interest

of future me who will be writing these

meeting minutes I'll try and keep it

short and uh just say that um you know I

do not believe um the green belt and um

this project or the following project uh

for Eden Village are mutually exclusive

things um

I seems there's some disagreement on

that uh amongst uh between the

applicants and myself there um but uh

you know my goal at the end of the day

um is to ensure the implementation and

effectuation of the city's regulatory

documents including the zoning code uh

which includes the completion of the

green belt among its Community

Development objectives in section 7-31

point4 uh and the comprehensive plan in

which the green belt is pretty prominent

throughout um and so you know I

just want to see the preservation of the

green belt at the end of the day um in

the safest uh and um most enjoyable

manner for every member of the public

including the future residents of these

projects

okay thanks

Jeff Commissioners

um I know this is difficult to come up

with anything on this project but uh and

I know we're for

both U the green belt and as as I said

last time as a veteran myself definitely

for the veterans project but we got to

vote on what's in front of

us and U I would like to got a motion

all right all right let's uh what I'll

do is I'll make a motion that we approve

it subject only to the first three and

not to the fourth

condition is there a

second can I ask a clarifying question

so what does that do for the fourth

condition it doesn't exist doesn't it

doesn't factor into this at all what

does that do for the

project may I say

something where're not really

apologies I'm sorry I wasn't here last

month so I didn't get all the discussion

commissioner tokens I think it green

lights the project to move forward

without needing to retain the piece of

the green belt that currently goes

across it that's what eliminating the

yeah someone feel free to correct me if

that's wrong

okay is there a

second if

not that

motion it does yeah is there another

motion on the

floor I'll make a motion to

approve the preliminary final land

development plan with all four

conditions noted

is there a second on that

motion I'll second that this been moved

and second for approval of the project

with the with the um all four conditions

yeah yes keeping all four that Jeff that

was originally on the reval

question I

concern by them saying they can't do the

fourth they don't

it yeah I mean that's the that's that

would be the

agreement the approval that we're

putting in place would be to keep all

four conditions um depending on how the

commission would vote that would reflect

how we feel towards that it would go to

city council for final decision on as to

whether those four conditions remain

commission you heard the the motion and

with the second all those in favor state

by saying

I I

I all those

opposed and obss motion carried

you I or n or

exension under new business I'm

this is um item number three this is a

varant and special exception

application for

1103 South FR Street Eden Village which

is Zone um RF is Follow by Harry

Lane who's with Eden Villages of

Harrisburg

associated with the construction of a

transitional housing development

featuring a 32 unit supported housing

facility use a community center and

Associated site and access Improvement

and to request relief from the minimal

Building height

requirement uh yes uh so the applicant

for the current proposal is uh proposing

to construct a transitional housing

development for homeless individuals

featuring 32 indiv ual tiny homes which

include bathroom

facilities um and a community center and

Associated site and access

improvements the project requires zoning

hearing board approval of a special

exception for a use not specifically

prohibited in the zoning code per

section 7-33 111b of the zoning code and

of a variance application for buildings

shorter than the 36 foot height minimum

height outlined in section

73073 A of the zoning code property 1103

South Front Street is a 15 acre lot

which is largely vacant although it

still retains some of the building

foundations and site infrastructure from

when the property accommodated a steel

mill currently it accommodates a

critical connection of the capill green

belt but little else in the way of

development or active uses there's

currently a subdivision application in

the review process which will result in

the partitioning of the existing

property into two tracks an 8 and 1 half

acre lot and a 6 and 1 half acre lot

this project will be located on the lad

lot to the South the property is bounded

by the property at 1101 South Front

Street to the South or to the north

subsequent railroad tracks to the east

East the property at 1105 South Front

Street to the South and the ssan river

to the

West the planning Bureau staff

recommends or request be approved with

the following conditions if granted

zoning approval to move forward with the

project as proposed the applicant shall

submit a land development plan for

approval from the Planning Commission

and city council the applicant should

ensure that the tiny homes will be ADA

Compliant to ensure that they're able to

accommodate as much of the population as

possible and just to be clear I'm not

quite sure based on the um elevation

plans of the tiny homes whether that's

the intent um but it looked like there

was a slight Step Up um so I just wanted

to add that as a condition in case that

was not being proposed uh the applicant

should coordinate with the Capal area

Greenbow Association and t2t regarding

the retention of the greenb across the

property this will retain a recreational

amenity for the community at large and

will provide a walking biking route for

residents to connect to the surrounding

community and the city overall as the

applicants note at the applicant notes

many will not own Vehicles based on the

proposed site design the planning Bureau

notes that the site can accommodate the

green belt in the northeastern corner of

the property connecting the existing

Bridge of the railroad tracks to a

future alignment to the north uh the

planning Bureau recommends that the

applicant install the required bicycle

parking near the main entrance and be

sheltered for the benefit of staff and

volunteers um residents of the tiny

homes can store the bikes in their units

uh when I say the main entrance that

should be to the community center um and

then finally the planning Bureau

recommends that the applicant coordinate

with the city artburst regarding

required landscaping and trees on on

site and consider installing native

plants and pollinator plants in

landscaped areas around throughout the

site generally and more specifically

around the proposed storm water

detention basins uh planning Bureau

staff recommends the requests be

approved for the following reasons the

proposed project will meet a critical

need housing for homeless individuals

will'll provide units with full bathroom

and kitchen facilities that improve

their standard of living and will

further development of a housing

typology that has been proposed and

completed for other areas for other

sites in the immediate area the project

represents a continuation of recent

development projects in this area

intended to provide accommodations and

services for those experiencing

homelessness and finally if the

recommended conditions of approval are

adopted the proposed project will result

in improvements to the site that will

provide benefits to the greater Public

Welfare including formalized access for

green belt users improve trail

conditions and maintenance of existing

natural and ecological

buffers thank you Jeff could you state

your name address and relationship to

the project so with uh wendle Hoover Uh

1500 smok House Lane Harrisburg I'm on

the board of Eden

village C Lane 4605 faring Harrisburg

I'm the president of the board Josh

widler with BL companies we the civil

engineer for this project okay um

gentleman heard the report with the

conditions are you acceptable of the

conditions yes and yes we've looked at

the conditions and we find them

acceptable

okay did you want to add anything to the

report the report says

transitional have SAR

concern continue

to yeah you have to

yeah yeah we will continue to work with

TTT uh we have similar concerns uh and

we're not transitional we permanent

housing

and my apologies for the inaccuracy in

that okay Commissioners I have no

questions at this time um but if you

have concerns or questions I'll start

with commission ool I have none commiss

re I have no questions commiss

Merck uh yes I do have a couple

questions and and I do apologize I was

not present during the July meeting I I

think that's when there sketch plan the

sketch plan review was conducted so I

may have missed some information but I

would love to hear more about exactly

what Eden Village is and what you're

intending on doing with this project um

with this

development doing my due diligence yeah

if you want to go and walk them through

the

prop Eden Village is a uh permanent

housing tiny home uh organization that

is for the chronically homeless uh it is

uh individual single occupancy uh 400q

foot tiny homes with a community center

that Community Center will provide

medical mental health uh life skills uh

for the residents that are there uh we

will be working with both parties both

Neighbors in the community and

identifying those that fit uh the

chronically homeless um qualifications

and there is a rent that will be paid um

a small rent but it's a r they they will

need to

pay and Josh could you walk them through

the plane

people begin

right the green belt heads

East yeah right the AIS Road basically

that's would form an intersection of

what the green belt path has been to

what the new route would be correct okay

thanks that was probably one of the

bigger things I wanted to clarify for

myself um okay got it

um in regards

to the applicants that that would apply

for that for the tiny tiny home home

housing is is there an application

process Are there specific organizations

or entities that you are work working in

direct Consortium with how does that

work who who are the folks that you are

providing these tiny homes to there is

an application process uh we are working

with other organizations with as Mission

uh we're in Communications with Daily

Bread we'll be working with vpa we'll be

partnering with TTT um but there is an

application

process

okay the focus of this project is it for

specifically for um

folks within the Harrisburg Community or

are you looking with are you also

partnering with organizations outside of

the city of

Harrisburg this is it's not limited to

Harrisburg but the focus will be on the

the citizens of

Harrisburg okay no other questions right

now

thanks Jo no further

questions um is there anyone in the

public for against this project can I

start my

left

Center there's one person there

okay

commissioner can I get a

motion make a motion you approve with

conditions is there a

second second it's been moved and second

for approval of this project with the

conditions all those in favor stay by

saying I I I oppose extensions motion

carry good luck

thank

you thank

you

okay item number four this is a

preliminary final land development plan

for 126 1270 Market Street is Zone

c um commercial neighborhood followed by

Christina Herman with wildart

Ministries uh this is to consolidate the

five Parcels comprising the project site

and develop a new mixed use building

with 13 residential units

4,875 sare Fe of commercial space and

Associated site and access

improvements

jaff yes apologies

[Music]

um the applicant is proposing to

consolidate the five Parcels comprising

the project site and develop a new mixed

use building with uh nine residential

units 4,875 ft of commercial space

across four commercial units and

Associated site and access improvements

the project say is comprised of five

vacant Parcels totaling 0. 21 Acres

owned by the Harrisburg Redevelopment

Authority which previously accommodated

a community garden and Gathering space

although Now features overgrown

vegetation debris from the former

community space and some mature trees

along the northern property line project

site is bounded by the properties at

1257 to 1265 belly Street and 8 North 13

Street to the north properties at 1272

and 1276 Market Street to the East

Market Street to the South and the

property at 1258 Market Street to the

West

the planning Bureau staff recommends the

request be approved uh with the

following conditions uh the applicant is

required to receive a certificate of

qualification pursuant to chapter 12-

101 of title 12 the affordable housing

certification prior to recording the

lock consolidation of land development

plan with the Dolphin County recorder of

deeds uh as part of the applicant's

proposal to reconstruct the full width

sidewalk and install Ada ramps on the

Market Street Frontage they should

coordinate with the city Engineers

office on the removal of the curb cut

and driveway onto Market Street

which is at the southern end of the site

uh the applicant will also need to

submit easement application and receive

approval from the city for the proposed

Ada ramps and access

stairs uh the planning Bureau encourages

the applicant uh to coordinate with the

city Engineers office on the

installation of bike racks in the public

RightWay the bureau would recommend that

such Park bike parking be located near

the main entrance and sheltered if

possible uh to be clear uh compared to

other uh proposed developments um the

applicants are not required to provide

that because uh the bike parking

requirement is attached to the uh

development of surface parking which is

not being proposed as part of this

project uh the applicant will provide a

formal photometric plan to confirm

consistency with the environmental

performance standards in chapter 7- 331

of the zoning code uh the applicant

should consider a vertically

differentiated facade treatment in

materials that reflect the architectural

elements of the surrounding neighborhood

uh and the planning our planning

Commissioners may recall that we uh

recommended this same condition in uh

the review of 1610 North 4th Street um

so that it didn't look like a monolithic

building it kind of uh Blended in

visually to the um

streetcape uh the applicant should

coordinate with the city arur on the use

of native tree species and pollinator

plants uh and finally the applicants

will coordinate with the Department of

Public Works to confirm the appropriate

size and location of refu collection on

site and update the billing accounts to

reflect the new use uh planning Bureau

staff recommends the request be approved

for the following reasons approval of

the proposal will enhance the character

of the neighborhood and improve the

streetcape of the corridor by developing

prominent and long-standing vacant Lots

constructing compatible inflow

development improving sidewalks adjacent

to the property and introducing new

commercial space for small businesses

the proposed project will provide nine

new affordable housing units and two and

three bedroom configurations which will

be certified and maintained longterm as

affordable units proposed project will

also contribute to an overall goal of

the city to provide much needed

affordable housing to Residents and

finally the project will enance one of

the primary gateways into the Allison

Hill Neighborhood adding new residents

to the neighborhood activating the

street and community on nights and

weekends and contributing to a growing

customer base to support local

businesses thank you Jeff could you

state your name and address and

relationship to the

project Zan gist I'm a project manager

and civil engineer with integrated

Consulting the civil engineer for this

project oh sorry address uh 430 uh North

Front Street in warmley

B my name is tanan Herman at 333 South

13 Street and I'm the executive director

of

wildart okay you both heard the staff

Report with the conditions are you

acceptable of those

conditions yeah I would just like a

clarifying question on condition number

one um from how I was understanding

that's relevant to Section 8 this is not

a Section 8 project so if there's

information for me to be aware of please

yeah yeah so so this is uh relative to

uh the city's affordable housing

legislation um as a calculation on the

uh a a calculation of the density that

would be permitted by right uh based on

the lot area 7.7 units would be

permitted by right and because you're

proposing nine um I was presuming you

were operating under the um density

bonus that would be allowed by the

affordable housing um uh uh program

which would allow I believe up to 11 uh

units so um in order to have this be

byright with respect to the density um

it would need to go through the

affordable housing it's and it's just

like a paperwork document okay great

yeah all right thank you for clarifying

um just the only other comment that I

had was um regarding the the manzer

design we uh that was actually just a

mockup that we were also displeased with

so uh your comments about it being

vertically differentiated we're already

instituting those changes as we speak so

um but everything else beyond that

are we're we're agre yeah I'll make a

note about for the trash collection too

um that was something that we briefly

discussed with the project team and that

would be something we'd use uh

individual receptacles for that because

one uh the lack of space as you can see

it uh we're pretty tight on Space here

really uh maximizing what we have

available with the uh you know

development so uh there's not really

room for a dumpster space we really want

to encourage public you know use of of a

dumpster in this area either so to us it

it'd be um probably best that we we

would address that by having individual

receptacles for the different units

there um out along the street so um but

other than that yeah we we don't have

any ex objections to any of the

conditions we're working on the lighting

plan we didn't have that quite uh ready

yet by the time we were submitting for

Land Development we wanted to uh get

through the start the approvals process

but we do have the me staff that are

working on a exterior lighting around

around the building so we will have that

ahead of or try do our best to have that

ahead of our meeting with city

council um maybe you could uh give a

quick overview of the project

and you got one yes no absolutely um so

uh a brief history on Wild Heart

Ministries we actually began in 2016

inside of the community of Alon my wife

and I actually moved um into the

neighborhood in

2013 began projects at that time which

up until this date we've now uh managed

to be able to remove over 3 million

pounds of trash from the Allison Hill

Community in those efforts a big

discovery that was made in that was uh

more of a boots on the ground

perspective of the need for housing

inside of the community specifically for

affordable housing um so discovering

that from a firsthand perspective as

well as when councilwoman Bowers first

was appointed to take her position on

Council uh I had connected with her

about wanting to find new uh ways to

serve in the community she suggested

affordable housing that began that

conversation for us to explore if

wildart would uh have any role in that

um which followed me reaching out to Mr

Knight to then ask how would you see

this best moving forward so from the

beginning it's always been for us about

partnering with the city to accomplish

the goals specifically around affordable

housing um when we found this location

owned by the Redevelopment Authority uh

for us one of our main concerns was I

think there's a difference between

development and good development and

desirable development and really trying

to that our neighbors were the primary

beneficiaries of whatever um project we

did so the whole project every unit is

an affordable unit instead of it being a

peripheral goal of the development so

we're very proud of that to offer that

to our neighbors um as you guys have

seen in your notes it's going to provide

nine residential units all for home

ownership again the purpose of home

ownership for us is securing our

neighbors future inside of that

community and not being subject to

gentrification through bad development

um so we uh bring this to you guys

really as the first of many so we are we

are calling this project the Gateway um

because it's an intersection of multiple

communities the downtown of Harrisburg

Allison Hill Summit Terrace all very

proud identities inside of the city on

their own right but really making it

also an invitation for people to to

build Bridges you know um not just in

the social fabric of the city but also

in the literal sense of what does it

mean to bring everybody together so

we're uh very proud to offer this in

front of you guys for your consideration

and are grateful for your

um I so also I wanted to I don't know if

you have a a picture outline that you

could show us the propose of what what

we have here of what the structure looks

like yeah um do you have

anything um I did not bring the

architectural like the rendering that

Heth had put together there's okay there

there should be I I believe the

Commissioners all have that do you guys

all have that in your package

there was a uh there was the land

development plan and then there was also

uh floor plans and elevation plans

separate yeah

MK from the news yeah yeah that

would okay I will say as well if I'm

allowed that we uh are the beneficiary

of a grant through the DCd uh DC um and

they hosted a press conference there at

that site two weeks ago um as as well

and supported the project so we're

excited to have multiple levels of

Engagement okay um I no questions I

definitely think it's a good project U

because I know going up Market Street

that's pretty um ey sore in that lot

there so it definitely will be

Improvement um with that I'll if I have

any other concerns I'll come back to

myself

we'll start with commission2 any

questions yeah not really question but

no I think it's a great project all in

favor of it uh I wean God for 25 30

years nothing was happening on on U

Allison Hill and I think the motor

Street I don't even know if that you

consider that atin hill but that's the

first time since I've been to Harrisburg

I've seen any development there and now

TLC is just wrapping up their first

phase I think of the Cornerstone and I

know a couple other projects coming so I

it's great uh getting a little ahead of

myself but Jeffrey the parking

requirement would be like what 14 uh

well they're not required to have any

parking because it's the CN District

okay um based on the uh amount of

um units uh they'd be required to have

four and a half uh because it's half a

space per affordable unit and then it

would also be dependent upon whatever

businesses were located in the um

commercial space because

many of our commercial uses are uh the

off street parking requirements are

predicated upon the floor area yeah well

even we're a parking require there's so

many Open Spaces up there I think we

Overlook that so but they're not but to

be clear they're not required to provide

par that's good all right yeah great

project commissioner Reed all my

questions have been

answered commissioner Mark yeah I would

Echo commissioner ul's comments you know

around the project itself um I think

this is is a great project I have one

question just curious if you have any

prospects on the commercial units uh

that that are being me there's four

commercial units that will be provided

do you have an idea of what that might

look like uh we don't have any confirmed

prospects however the goal of this

project is also um with the benefit of

the or the primary benefici of the

project being the community service

providers or anybody who can add value

to that me inside of the community on

just a standard retail operation okay

thank

you I'll quickly add to that uh We've

designated four commercial spaces is the

maximum based upon the zoning

requirements and what we think is viable

there but uh to be truth with the floor

space on the commercial sides on the

right side and left side I think it's

still up to it wouldn't be any more than

four probably depending on who ends up

filling those those spaces and the need

for that floor space Oh So Right so they

could potentially occupy two units right

because of the layout of so it could

potentially just be a larger floor space

for two okay got

it

Jo no

questions is there anyone from the

public for against this project in the

middle no

one's ini could I get a motion

oh

[Laughter]

boy

right

back I'll make a motion to approve with

the conditions noted is your second

second it's been moved in second for

approval of the project with the

conditions all those in favor statewise

saying I I I oppose extensions motion

carried good luck thank you so much we

appreciate it

Jeff other business updates uh no other

business um we managed to kind of keep

this one I guess shorter than I was

anticipating so hopefully we'll be able

to get both the meeting both last

month's and this month's meeting minuts

done before the November meeting fingers

crossed we're we're turning to the first

item where they didn't show I mean the

question the question is do you do a

motion to continue it or you dismiss it

I don't know how you want to handle

that yeah my my what I usually do in

this case when someone doesn't show up a

first time's free kind of thing so like

I would recommend a continuance um I

think they my guess is maybe they hadn't

had their meeting with the community yet

and thought maybe they didn't need to

come back um so I think um you know we

obviously supported the proposal and so

I'd like to give them a chance to uh

come back before you all okay a motion

for

continues so moved is there a

second second mve to second we

continuous number

two all those in favor state by say I I

I opposed exensions motion carried

anything for the good of the order

Commissioners Mr chair I do have just

one quick point of personal privilege I

think most of the Commissioners know uh

my wife and I had our first child

recently and which thank you and coming

along with that is going to be for us a

move to a bigger home and unfortunately

it's going to be it's not far but it's

going to be outside the city

limits and so I think uh either this or

next meeting I I believe there's a

residency requirement for the commission

so my time with the commission will

actually be drawing to a close very soon

so I just wanted to make everyone aware

of that I sent a letter uh to the city

earlier this week but so thanks it's

been a it's been a great time yeah we

lose all the good people

uh if not I got a motion for

jman is there a

second we stand