Shaolin Master’s Guide to Self-Mastery & Inner Stability | Shi Heng Yi

The reason why we suffer throughout this

lifetime is because we want to be

someone. I had parents that came as

refugees from Vietnam [music] running

away from war with the idea of finding

safety in a foreign country. [music] Do

your education, get a proper job, earn

some proper money. That was the idea of

my parents. Nevertheless, with the age

of four, I got acquainted with the

practice of the martial [music] arts. I

can do all of these things. I'm a high

achiever, but this one never satisfied.

[music] Yes, on the outside it looks

great. There it doesn't look great at

all. No matter how I felt, [music] there

was literally nobody I could somehow

share with. So, I just [music] kept it

for myself. Everything I started

building up started to crumble. Then I

was [music] sitting there and asking and

then what? I stopped my traveling. I

stopped social media [music] and

literally was just sitting with myself.

Truth can never be spoken.

Empty yourself. [music] Then the

universe speaks to you.

Hey everyone, welcome back to the know

thyself podcast. Our guest today is a

35th generation Shaolin master and

founder and headmaster of the Shaolin

Temple Europe. He has been steeped in a

practice for over 1,500 years known as

the Shaolin way. And he uh has been

sharing practices through his talks, his

books, his teachings about connecting

the mind and the body. Shi, thank you so

much for being here today.

>> Andre, thank you very much for the

invitation.

Let's see where this is going to go now.

[laughter]

[gasps]

>> Let's see. The mystery is ahead of us.

Where I'd like to start is that it feels

like we live in a time with more

external comforts than ever before and

yet it seems like we're more internally

uncomfortable than ever before. Why do

you think that is?

I can't right now tell you why but let's

start with some very very obvious

observations that we have. I mean while

we are having this talk right now, I

mean on some parts of the world, you

know, the media is like broadcasting it

all over. We have wars going on. We have

missiles and bombs uh falling down.

But interestingly also and this is maybe

where many people at the moment feel

something is just about to shift or

there is a shift going on.

And just by looking what is this type of

shift

I mean we see for example let's just

take it yeah Dubai

what was it known for what type of

people go there what was your view upon

going into such a country

if you have your financial means there

is nothing that you cannot get in Dubai

right but right now in these

circumstances

the less thing you're thinking about is

spending your money in any type of

luxury. Let's put it like this. And why

is that?

Because very clearly this life right now

is showing you that there's one

essential point

missing. And if that is not there, it

really doesn't matter anymore what you

are aiming at, which is safety.

the current situation, whatever it is,

it is just displaying to you very

clearly. Once safety is gone,

you have way other problems and things

to deal with than uh figuring out where

to spend your money in. And so it comes

ultimately also to this point of safety.

What is it that makes you feel safe?

What takes your safety away?

and already being with this term of

safety.

Now sometimes I also saw some of your

podcast already. It is the title of your

series of your podcast. Know thyself.

Meaning,

who is it ultimately

that either misses the safety or that

feels the safety? And to make it like

really quick and then we can afterwards

talk about it long time.

identifying yourself with this,

walking through this lifetime, you'll

always be afraid of losing this one.

That's the starting point. So, let's

keep diving in.

You would think that

through the times of modernity, the more

technology, the more access to food at

our doorstep, um the more affluence

would correlate to increase in

well-being. And yet we see the

loneliness epidemic, we see anxiety

through the roof, um teenage suicide.

All of these markers indicate an

internal poverty, so to speak. amidst an

external abundance.

And I think when you're referring to

exploring what what is it and who do we

identify with is getting to the heart of

the matter. Um and uh and and so I'd

love to just keep on diving a little bit

deeper here with you. You said it

already. There's never been a time where

you seemingly

could spend so much of your time being

in comfort also based on what nowadays

we have available.

Nevertheless,

how it looks on the inside when we right

now make the separation of how does it

look on the outside, how do people feel

on the inside. Apparently, the approach

of giving you more comfort, more

technology, more possibilities on the

outside doesn't seem to

fill up something that internally more

and more feels like getting either lost

or all of these outside things don't

even fill up that lack, that longing

that apparently if you're sensitive at

some point, realize there is more

important things for me to have this

feeling of thriving and living and and

feeling actually full feeling grateful

about walking on this earth.

So number one is the approach that maybe

a lot of people nowadays are looking at

the approach of building financial

wealths or in general

that there's always something more to

reach. I mean it's been going on like

this since forever almost but at the

same time it doesn't seem to get better.

And then on the other side we have more

and more of the modern age

spiritualities

coming. We have more and more people

apparently

tracing back to the ancient teachings

that there must be something hidden that

there is already the answer.

And

well maybe yes. And this is where this

whole idea comes from

that you won't find the answer outside

of yourself.

Yeah. And continuously start running

searching for something in the hope that

it's going to bring you the fulfillment

that you are eventually wanting to feel

it. Apparently, this approach right now

is not working. And therefore I

appreciate very much also the the

possibility of these podcasts like yours

where just different perspectives are

being shown and especially also

throughout all the different guests that

you're having. So the bottom line is

also to make it clear

there is a nice nice image which is

on the top of the mountain there you're

going to get the clarity but there is

not one way to get there.

Yeah. In a way this idea of there is

something to climb. Yeah. But there is

not one path that moves up there.

Therefore which teacher is right? Which

tradition is right? the one that at some

point maybe resonates with you and that

you also start walking from beginning

until end. And uh yes,

so it seems like so much of your work is

aimed at exploring the the paths to to

selfmastery and people that are

listening to this podcast have various

different traditions and lineages and uh

ways in which they've turned inwards

essentially.

How would you define selfmastery and the

uniqueness of the Shaolin path as a

distinct way up the mountain so to

speak? Okay.

So maybe I have to jump a little bit

back into the past in order to build a

little bit this uh this framework. This

framework why do I think is important

if somebody would see this podcast like

right now and looks at me. So I do

assume there is a lot of projection.

Okay. He's Asian dressed. He has a

shaved head. Yeah. He talks about all

this spirituality and about knowing

yourself. So apparently he has never

worked outside in the world with the

normal problems that we all have. That's

why he can be somewhere at his temple or

hide inside the mountains or in the

forest in order to reflect upon life.

Well, first of all, that is a

projection.

It is not what I am. And therefore,

jumping back a little bit, my journey

started like the journey of many other

people as well. Meaning I had parents

that came as refugees from Vietnam to

Europe because in Vietnam they were

running away from the regime and of the

consequences of war that time with the

idea of finding safety and stability in

a foreign country. So now already it's

like important to acknowledge. So you

have two human beings, my father and my

mother, running away from their home

country

in order to look for safety in a foreign

country. So this idea of safety was very

very deep embedded into the mindset of

my parents. Therefore, their focus in in

uh educating me and my brother was based

upon no matter what you do. First of

all, the important part is

do your education, go to school, qualify

yourself, get a proper job, earn some

proper money and this financial uh

wealth is going to give you some

stability. So that was the idea of my

parents. Therefore, I went the whole

academic system until I studied two

times also for the sake of my parents.

Nevertheless,

with the age of four, simultaneously,

I got acquainted for the first time in

my life with what is known nowadays as

Shaolin kung fu. So, meaning the

practice of the martial arts. So

[snorts] growing up now as a boy as a as

a child as a teenager growing up I

always had like two areas in my life.

Academic education and then also

training myself, training the body,

training the martial arts

and

already having like all the stress and

all the pressure of you need to deliver

good grades, you need to be good at

school. Yeah, of course it puts me under

pressure. And so sometimes this pressure

I just felt very very naturally.

I was looking forward going into the

training and releasing some of the

energy that just like starts to build up

during normal life.

And now a little bigger jump after

finishing my studies now when the time

has come where I had to actually decide

what am I going to do for my living. say

I was just thinking okay what is it that

I can do the best what is it that I feel

like this world needs and that I can in

a way provide

and more than having the knowledge from

the school and then studying more than

this type of knowledge was actually the

knowledge and the experience that I had

in the field of martial arts and also

meaning to actually know how to train,

regulate, adjust myself and uh just have

some good knowledge about myself

and this all was happening now in

Germany in Europe.

Meaning

I [snorts] grew up seeing how the how

the the market how the business world is

developing. What is it that is

concerning for the people? And more and

more that was the time where burnout was

such a big topic and I just felt like h

okay [snorts]

if the people would just know about the

possibilities of using your body

literally as a medicine in order to take

some effect on the psyche on the mental

states. they would probably be less

stressed and would be able to deal

better with their life whatever they are

doing. So and this was the starting

point where I started founding the

Shaolin Temple Europe with the idea of

just spreading simple simple practices.

You don't need to be a martial artist.

You don't need to go into a temple. You

can just do some basic exercises to get

more movement into your daily life. That

is what actually kicked off everything.

And then now jumping more far together

with the with the co times with all the

restrictions. Everybody was at home. You

were not allowed to travel anywhere. So

this is then suddenly where all the

online teachings and what I was sharing

five six years prior to that started to

somehow being spread in the world and

then everything just went its course.

Yeah. And

meanwhile

and meanwhile it it's mostly like this

that when I'm invited somewhere that

primarily I start sharing something by

words but actually the field of where I

was coming from was simply the field of

martial arts.

If stress management seems to be the

doorway in to a lot of different

modalities and potentially

Shaolin or martial arts practices, uh

what later down the line, decades down

the line is the core and the essence of

of really what the goal of the practice

is.

Conceptually

I understood very very early there is no

way in trying to change the ideas of my

parents.

There is no way in even trying to invest

my energy and trying to figure out what

people in my surrounding are expecting

from me or having ideas what am I

supposed to do with my life

in that in that field of stress

management. I also realized very very

quickly people getting stressed by the

phone calls they receive, people getting

stressed by the emails they receive. And

so I just felt like all the time.

So I wake up in the morning, have a very

great day.

Then I just look at that phone. I just

open like my my my laptop, read

something and suddenly my life quality,

my great day is gone.

And I just felt like

that that just doesn't make sense. This

is not the way of how I imagine to live

my life being so dependent upon what

type of um impulses

I am exposed to like meaning whatever

[snorts] is happening there on the

outside I don't want to be so much

influenced that all these things can

take away my well-being eventually and

so that means very clearly

I cannot rely my own well-being, the way

of how I feel based on what is happening

on the outside.

First of all, I can't fix it.

So very rationally thinking, there was

only one solution.

It is it has something to do about me. I

need to somehow find the key to regulate

myself to be able and learn to cope with

everything that this world is throwing

at me.

And so there I understood for myself

that there is a similarity between the

physical and martial art training. It's

like if I'm placing on my mind, okay, I

want to like do some proper push-ups. My

aim is to do 200 push-ups. Nobody's

going to help you.

It is you yourself who needs to go

through the pain, who needs to go

through the training, who who is the one

who needs to motivate yourself, find

your own purpose in why am I doing this?

There is nobody else out there helping

you to achieve what you are setting on

the mind. And just similar like this

development of your physical form. I

felt okay.

It is also the mental qualities. It is

also the mind capabilities that I felt

like they also need to be properly

trained and developed. And this is the

similarity that until today um I'm

trying to share with the people where

many times you heard also maybe the term

discipline.

Every proper martial artist has for sure

that amount of discipline

being able to push through the difficult

times

because we know first it's difficult

then it becomes easy

and same also sometimes for the mind.

is in the beginning difficult to stay

away and tame yourself from temptations

but on the long run it's going to be

good for you

and this is like what uh I like to view

this whole pass in and why eventually

um what I try to like in the way of how

I tried to name it was selfmastery

don't need to look for a master a

teacher outside of you have the key.

It's literally like we all have our own

master sitting inside of us. He just

needs to be cultivated.

We just need to nourish him. Give him

the proper thoughts. Give him the proper

energy. Give him the proper training.

Then that master comes out.

Yes. And that means taking your life in

your own hands again. Stop relying too

much on the outside. This is your life.

That's why you need to be responsible

for it. That is the whole idea behind

it.

It feels like so much of the path is

this progression from unconsciousness to

consciousness, from compulsivity and

reactiveness to responding to choice.

And if we're to have any shot at, so to

speak, unlocking the master within us,

um

there is this uh saying or phrase about

chi follows ye that I would love for you

to speak to because it seems like right

now we're giving our energy, our life,

our attention to so many things

externally and not giving self the

opportunity it has to be examined, to

inquire about it and uh and to grow

awareness in it. And so what what does

that mean?

>> Okay.

>> So in the field of martial arts,

especially when it comes to the field of

so-called nowadays so-called internal

martial arts, which means you are having

different methods, you have different

practices that are aiming in cultivating

something very, I would call it refined

about yourself. so refined that

sometimes we call it even you're at the

level ofqi. So sensing the bio

electricity of your body and this bio

electricity or the energies of your body

it is saidqi

follows e

in that in that sense meaning attention

or intention. Attention, intention

meaning thought,

energy follows your thoughts.

Now just keep that in mind and we make a

little jump into some Buddhist teachings

that also has a very nice lineup. It

says, "Watch your thoughts because they

will become your words. Watch your words

because they will become your action.

Watch your actions because they will

become your behavior.

Watch your behavior because they will

become your habits. Watch your habits

because it will become your character.

Watch the character because it will

become your destiny.

Putting now that long chain of what I

just said together with the idea of

energy follows intention. There is some

similarity.

If something in this world you want to

create,

creation needs energy.

So ultimately where does this energy

come from? It comes ultimately from

thought.

So now we have to ask ourself first of

all

are you at all times aware

of what are you thinking?

This is number one. This is where in all

the traditional ancient teachings you

have the practices that are aiming in

finding a space or being in a space

where you can literally see your own

thoughts

and that means it's already one step

ahead of what is happening nowadays in

the world.

What is happening is you think and

that's why

what you are thinking you think that's

you. So you think you are your thoughts.

A thought is popping up. Ah so that's

what I'm supposed to do. Blindly

following the thought.

Now the problem with this is

that you have no

power.

what type of thought is popping up.

It is an everlasting experiment in

trying to um trying to figure out what

is going to be the next thought that is

going to pop up now in 10 seconds.

You can't predict what type of thought

is coming up.

And therefore in the ancient teachings

there is one let's call it one method

which just says like this number one

distance yourself from the idea that you

are your thoughts. This is where it

comes from. You are not your thoughts.

Even if right now for many people it

might be a concept. I'm not talking

about concept but you can still use it.

You are not your thoughts in the moment.

you are able to tap into this reality

then you can let thoughts come and at

the same time you can see thoughts go

that means you are at the space that at

all times is just unmoving.

Now thoughts energy creation this taking

it back also meaning

on whichever thought you are getting

hooked on

this is what you create

and this is why

to be aware and conscious whether you

are willingly by your own how I say

if you're consciously choosing a thought

or if you are by habit being hooked by a

thought is a big difference.

And this is how it then ultimately

translates into why is it that some

people let's say

get things done in a proper way and

other people let's say try and try and

try but somehow seem to get lost.

It's exactly because you cannot trust

all thoughts that come every day into

your mind because it's not your choice.

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I'm curious your thoughts on like I

think the more that you gain awareness

of that,

the more painful it becomes to not be

living from that place because you refer

to this distinction between choosing

your thoughts or in essence your

thoughts choosing you. It's like uh

regurgitation of past conditioning and

stimulus from our parents and society

that keeps on living its own self

instead of me living my own free life to

choose the path I want to go on. And I

think the more that you become aware

of that it uh it becomes I definitely

have at different parts of my journey

like become sort of indignated about

that realization

and a bit rebellious to the unconscious

parts of me and I think that's so much

seen in the shallow spirit as well.

You referred earlier how you very much

so use the body to free the mind and the

interplay between the two and I think

it's the body is in some circles put so

much emphasis on in terms of in the

health and wellness space but not really

understanding how energy body and mind

are all connected and interplaying at a

deep level. So thoughts you have on the

Shaolin way and and spirit. Okay.

So one reason why

this expression of Shaolin spirit in the

first place somehow was spread into the

world was simply like this

spirit

why is it called spirit because it

doesn't have a form

it doesn't have a form so meaning also

how can I demonstrate to you a shaolin

spirit what does A Shaolin spirit

exactly what is it exactly? I can't tell

you

meaning it is something formless.

You might now say or what I would uh

like to emphasize is [snorts] it is more

like a quality.

It is like something that is guiding you

no matter

what you are doing.

It's not about the what. It's about the

how.

As long as the how is being maintained,

no matter what you do, it always follows

the same type of spirit. So, and what is

one essential essential point of this

Shaolin spirit for example, it is

there are there is more to this life

than what meets the eye. That is where

it already starts with. So meaning if

you are living this life right now and

only believe in what you see, I would

say okay that might not be exactly

what I would have wished for for you to

understand about the Shaolin spirit. So

number one is the openness of mind.

There is more

to this existence than what we see in

the world. So then of course because

Shaolin is so close connected to the

martial art field. Another quality

therefore is also

this life is not here to give you

pleasantness at all times.

You're not being born into this world

and just like walk through this lifetime

like it would be Disneyland. This is not

happening. What you are facing,

what every human being at some level is

facing is difficulties.

So difficulties in the field of Shaolin

martial arts, nothing new. No

difficulties, no growth.

So what is like the how again about this

approach?

It is to really embedding and trying to

integrate it into your life. There will

come hard times. I won't give up.

But because I keep this consistency and

I keep this trust,

something about me starts to elevate.

Something about me starts to grow. I'm

starting to transform.

But by accepting that pain and suffering

to some extent is part of this

existence.

Yeah. that already removes the idea of

what nowadays let's say is I just felt

like is is propagated that [snorts] it's

a onedirectional

it's a one direction street where it's

about better higher more beautiful good

health growth yeah that is one part of

the truth what about the second one

and there I simply feel like

it is

you're creating your fantasy in your

mind how this life is supposed to be.

Then you're being faced with the reality

of how

life on earth right now really is. And

then you're wondering why you're having

such a difficult time. It's because you

focus all the time on 50% of the truth.

You had a preference.

you had a preference for the gentle,

nice and and pleasant things.

So, and one area of Shaolin spirit like

I said is again

we need both.

It's not just that we need both, we are

going to face both. That's where you

also No, it's not just the Shaolin

spirit. The Daoists way before that they

have the yin and yang symbol, right? And

even other religions, other cultures,

they have the devil and the angel

or the demon and the Buddha.

Two sides of the same coin.

So how do you translate this two sides

of the same coin? Yes, this is you. It's

the same of what's happening nowadays

also in the world where to the public

you show the glorious and shiny side of

you. Yeah. What about the other side

and it is existing from the outside in

people might see from the more

commercial perspective of the Shaolin

warriors or exuding extreme selfmastery

over their physical body. uh which is

one side of things, but you've alluded

to throughout and you do through your

book and your in your talks about it not

being just what we do, but the

consciousness in which what we do and

and who we are being while we do what we

do in the world. And I think this kind

of gets to the heart of of Buddha and

the cultivation of of the virtues. Um

because when you see that everything is

infused with the consciousness in which

we do it then we do turn that gaze in

inward um and examine the motivations

and the intentions behind our actions.

We live in a world that is very much so

externally outward perceiving from

social media and society lens. We're

very

uh programmed to think of the appearance

of a thing and not as much the essence

of a thing. And uh and so as we examine

those two sides of the same coin within

us and we des and we desire to embibe

more of those virtues which are going to

benefit self and others more

consistently. Um I would just love for

you to set the stage of what those

virtues are. Give us like a road map of

um what are those qualities that we can

continue to develop.

Okay. Prior to that I think there's

something also like worth mentioning.

Um

so my journey I would say like this

started with the physical

the physical training of the Shaolin

practices.

At some point in my teenage years, why I

stayed with this type of practice was

very clearly that even for me it was so

interesting actually to

to understand. Ah okay there is that

development of skill in the physical

area but is happening traditionally from

a temple. All of this being developed in

a temple therefore Shaolin temple. So it

was not just about right now becoming

skillful with the body. My question was

what does it has to do with that temple

area with that temple uh name inside of

there. So and after some research you

all uh you you will just know that

[snorts] it is a Shaolin temple meaning

there is the Buddhist teaching or more

precisely what nowadays is known as Zen

is the foundation of everything that

this temple is bringing out into the

world. This is how it's supposed to be.

Now

when I realized this which was in my 20s

and I went on Google and put in Shaolin

what I witnessed for myself was okay

it's physical abilities its performance

its demonstration its show its fighting

where's the zen part

where's the zen part and I for myself

that time didn't find it

I also didn't find teachers at that time

that could

uh in an un in a in a understanding way

for me uh tell me what is the zen aspect

of it. So therefore I started to somehow

shape my own path figuring out what does

all this physicality

has to do with zen with the core what it

is supposed to be. So and meanwhile

after spending 36 years along this way

and walking through everything that I

walked through also meaning like

yeah it's not that I only have friends

in this world. Let's put it like this.

Yeah.

But I just cannot

um

I I don't like so much to support

anymore this idea of

showing Shaolin only in the way of

physicality

because I'm feeling that by doing so

much of real value is being taken away

from what people associate nowadays with

Shaolin

because it's never going to happen that

8 billion people in this world are going

to practice Shaolin martial arts

because maybe based on the way of how

they live their life, based on what type

of obligations they have, but there is

one thing that 8 billion people have in

common

and it is this one thing

that the Zen aspect is dealing with this

is why I feel like this is way more

important meanwhile regarding everything

that is going on than sharing with

somebody how to inhale, how to exhale,

how to make a punch, how to make a kick,

how to move a form. [snorts] Yeah.

And my master simply just tells me, what

would you do if tomorrow you cannot move

anymore? What did all the training of

the martial art help you if from

tomorrow on you're not able to move

anymore? Body you cannot use.

So where's the helping benefit? Well,

there can only be one if you have

practiced or understood something

that it all comes from mind.

that the key to answer a lot of things

in this world is by understanding more

about

you know it you had so many guests here

it always comes down to the same this

one

who am I

what am I this is the essence

so also meaning right now because you

ask about the virtues along Along the

way of know thyself, along the way of

figuring out what you are, there's one

important part along this way. [snorts]

There is no standard to it.

As soon as we set a standard, having a

conceptual idea how something is

supposed to be, it's not.

Yeah. And therefore why I mention this

these virtues that I also mentioned like

in these books and that you also find

like freely freely already on the web.

You can take them of course as a

guideline but at some point even 14

virtues have nothing to do with this

one. This is the essential point.

It makes me think of the references you

give to Star Wars and the force meaning

you could come to know who you are,

understand the energy that you are and

yet there isn't quite a standard in how

it's going to be used. You could you

know the morality or the or the virtues

um is something that you choose to

cultivate. But here also this picture.

Yeah.

They both have discovered the force.

The one uses it in how you would call it

in

in a compassionate and lightful way.

>> Mhm.

>> And the other one uses it in in a

different destructive and maybe like

evil way. Still both of them have still

something in common.

They are just fueling the force with

their thoughts.

So it's not ultimate stage.

The one does good, the other does bad.

There's still separation in that whole

idea.

>> Mhm. So meaning

no thinking,

no thought is the way.

sort is already creating a type of

container. It's already creating a type

of [sighs and gasps]

[snorts]

a type of standard

and uh something's telling me no, one

step too early. Yeah.

So for those of us that

can see very clearly that we have both

the light and the dark within us and and

we want to

be more like a light walker or a Yoda

instead of a Sith Lord or a dark Darth

Vader. Yeah. Walk us through the journey

of examining what those virtues are and

then how one could put into practice in

their daily life. Okay.

>> That and then maybe sharing your own

lens of where it's been difficult or how

it showed up.

A very practical one is to really

look at your own actions.

Whatever you are doing to whoever you

are talking to

for who are you doing it? Why are you

saying something? Meaning [snorts] if

you are always doing things, saying

things and ultimately the how do you

call it the the beneficiary

>> is yourself

less of that.

This is where in many traditions the

idea comes in of community work.

investing your own life energy in truly

benefiting others.

Not doing it in order to hear from all

of them, thank you, you made it all

possible. That's again the wrong way.

Yeah. But the idea of investing your

lifetime and just bringing it out.

This is one very effective way in

putting into practice that whole idea of

we are connected and this is not an ego

trip on this earth. Yeah. So therefore

to donate to help to do community work

and always observe yourself for who are

you doing this and I me should not like

pop up there.

Yeah, this is one of these things.

>> Yeah. The difference between uh service

to self or service to others being the

dominant energy or focus. I heard you

say

that there's only one way to become free

and that's to become transparent.

>> Yes. What do you mean by that?

The reason why we suffer and have

problems throughout this lifetime is

because we want to be someone.

We want to make ourself a name. We want

to have some type of acknowledgment.

The easy way, no, it's not the easy way.

transparent meaning

you are fine with being no one. You're

fine with being nothing.

You know it sounds super paradox

especially right now being in LA and

mentioning that one being no one. This

is not what the culture in the west is

built upon. It's always built upon do

something with your lifetime become

someone. But the problem is

again

[snorts]

you are creating an avatar, you are

creating a persona, you are creating a

role, you are creating an identity.

But

whoever brought us here, whatever

brought us here, I cannot believe that

this power brought us here incomplete

for you to figure out along the way what

you need to create.

Meaning the more you try to become

someone, the more unauthentic you become

because you're moving away of what you

are all the time.

And this is why again [snorts] and again

I love it and it's a super interesting

journey.

And this is where also in the

traditional teachings there is the

illusion of the self. The illusion of

the eye. The artificial creation of the

self. Know thyself. Which self?

Exactly. Which self?

And there this is where all these

interesting things come from.

Who's the doer?

To who are all the swords coming from?

From where do the swords come? Where do

the swords go afterwards?

Nothing and no one. That's why I do feel

like transparent describes it also very

much in that way. You know I mean we

also have this expression of just go

with the flow, right?

>> [snorts]

>> But let's just imagine, let's just

imagine right now like

there is a stream right now like flowing

through this room there's a stream

whatever type of stream it is.

What would it mean to go with the flow

while the both of us are like sitting

here?

It means to not take our own ideas about

myself right now so important

that I'm getting stiff and hard of how I

am.

the more I want to actually really

realize where is the flow, where does

the flow want to take me. What you need

to do is literally

get transparent.

Release all of this

um dilute yourself.

That would be the way of ah [sighs]

now you are being now the flow just you

just go with the flow. But the harder I

am here, this is my idea. This is my

life. this is what I think, this is what

I want. Then it just means you are

surrounded by the flow all the time, but

you're not being taken with the flow.

You're not going with the flow. Why?

Because you are res um resisting it.

Resisting it by your own mind,

by your own ideas. That's why this whole

idea of empty yourself.

Then the universe speaks to you.

I'm curious where this has shown up in

your life because I think the tendency

to identify with something as self, an

identity of sorts is so deeply

ingrained. Even the idea of someone who

is becoming empty or living a noble path

that can become an identity in and of

itself like the ego is so slippery and

elusive in that way. And um I feel like

the way you're referring becoming

transparent is like there's no place

within self I'm not willing to look and

meet and stare into the darkness so to

speak. How has that shown up for you? So

like probably 10 years ago

like the name Shang Yi or even Shaolin

spirit wasn't so well known as it is

nowadays. So along this journey starting

also with co

How I say this? Of course, it was nice

at some point to say, "Okay, nice." Like

the followers are growing and some

recognition and some appreciation from

everyone and so many possibilities and

you're being invited here, you're being

invited there.

in the beginning was nice but at some

point I also started literally really

thinking okay so in the meanwhile I'm

invited here yeah the doors are wide

open so I could literally visualize in

my head already where this whole journey

might go if it would be up to to my mind

meaning okay I can make more events I

can have more podcast I can join more

television shows I I would maybe even

make it easily to somehow join maybe in

some movie and then I was contemplating

okay let's just imagine all of this is

happening

and and then I I literally was sitting

there and asking

and then what

literally and then what

and this was like one starting point

where I literally said Okay, there's

[snorts] no point in really pushing more

forward like more followers, more events

and and whatsoever because I already

could sense and see for myself this is

not the way.

Yeah. And then simultaneously on the

outside I would say different things

started happening. So meaning also I had

to restructure the temple that I was

building up for many many years like a

lot of conflict started to happen there.

I needed to to interfere again. So what

I literally saw in front of my eyes was

that everything I started building up in

a way started to crumble from the

inside. It started to crumble. Then many

other incidents also happened that

literally put in front of my eyes. No

matter what you're building up, [snorts]

it can be gone like this very quick

also. Now, I don't want to like uh make

it too big, but um

in the same way of when I was following

some martial art practitioners, martial

art masters, I [snorts] always thought

like this. So when I would follow you

with all everything that you are

teaching me and you would be let's say

my master.

So the best that can happen to me is

that I'm actually going to become you.

I'm going to become you if I follow all

your advice exactly in the way of what

you're telling me. And just like this I

also thought about all the teachers all

the masters that I had in my life and

was then asking h

so if I follow this path longer I'm

going to be this if I follow that I'm

going to be him. So it's all been done

already.

So that means my my inner urge of like

staying with one teacher for example

also was not fulfilling anymore.

And

ultimately what I then started realizing

okay everything on the outside sto just

started to be so

[snorts] I don't know how to say

meaningless

outside was very meaningless for me.

Yeah. And then I can't tell you why, but

it just happened to be like this that

despite everything that was going on on

the outside, I just then had my time or

took my time to just be with myself,

not being um

not being distracted too much anymore

about the outside. I stopped my

traveling. I stopped being too much on

social media and literally was just

sitting uh with myself. And this is

where slowly slowly slowly some lights

maybe went on. Some lights about okay

why is this all happening on the

outside?

Yeah. It's because everything you're

doing carries consequences.

And the more you push something on

one-sidedly on the one side, it's just a

question of time until there is another

type of force bringing it or bringing it

in front of your eyes that it's about

balance.

Balance, not one-sidedness.

So and therefore I started consciously

and willingly actually to start and

letting go letting go of a lot of things

and now sitting here and being able to

tell you this I just have to say right

away

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I think we all want to feel that light,

that lightness, you know, we want to

and it's it's interesting to examine

like the parts of us that we're feeding

in any given moment that are bringing us

more towards that lightness or we get

identified with the success that the

relative success we're having or um I'm

curious for you to like list if you

would like what virtues come to mind as

like those are the aspects of self that

we want to nourish and feed. What what

are those? Whatever comes to mind.

Trust.

One of them I would definitely say trust

or is not mentioned exactly like this in

the virtues or belief.

But now belief

in terms of

[snorts]

not believing something because you have

evidence,

but before even having evidence,

having something so strongly in your

mind that you do not need any type of um

proof to still have something unbroken

about you. And this one for example, the

belief or the the belief that

there is more to what meets the eye.

That one I regard as a very very

important

quality

>> to look into. Yeah.

In the same way I would say

what makes yourself light is like stop

comparing yourself

stop comparing yourself to anyone and

also learn to on the one side you could

call it have respect for other beings

and also learn to be happy for other

people's

uh growth

because to be competitive

uh you know how I say

sometimes you're the winner but

sometimes you're the loser but this is

not a proper state of of mind that I

would say would be worth to continuously

develop it

what else

consistency

consistency of

staying true for let's say for what you

regard as being true.

What else?

What else would you like to know? Well,

one thing that I have heard you share a

good amount about is commitment. Um,

which I think a lot of people struggle

with in this day and age. Commitment

is a good one. It is a good one. And it

is not namely in one of the virtues

right now, but it's still good that we

mention it.

I feel like people don't have a problem

to make commitments,

but sometimes

those commitments are being broken in

the moments where it would make sense to

have that commitment which is when it

gets tough,

when it gets difficult.

But this is again yeah like let's take

the commitment of staying true to

staying true to your better half staying

true to your wife staying true to your

partner.

It's very easy to stay with somebody who

all the time behaves in the way of how

you expect that person to behave.

And it's very difficult to at some point

despite all the ego and all the triggers

coming up inside of you to still figure

out

why would you stay?

And I just can can maybe tell you from

from this perspective

the biggest transformation

the biggest internal transformation is

happening when you're under fire.

And therefore every time you find

somebody in your life that is

proddding and poking. Yeah.

It's very nice. It doesn't feel nice,

but it is the transformation that does

the most to you. And I cannot deny that

it even has a very very high I would

call it spiritual quality to it.

Because I don't know how to say,

as long as there's something to trigger,

it just means there's something inside

of me, there's something inside of you

that stops you from feeling that freedom

that you're supposed to to sense. So,

it's good that you know there is still

something to do.

Yeah. And therefore I really feel like

sometimes this type of commitment in

having a proper training partner

it's quite nice. Yeah. So when you find

a training partner

stay

uh training partner in the temple

setting in the life setting uh like more

of accountability. Um are you referring

to the physicality of the training or uh

just like any relationship that can be

that any type of relationship?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. So of course when it comes to to

[snorts] the training in the field of

martial arts of course would be nice to

have a super good training partner there

as well. This is why like having a type

of brotherhood definitely helps. This is

where like the whole idea of community

uh comes into play.

>> Yeah.

>> Yes.

I think it's so important to rewrite our

thoughts around challenges being a bad

thing. You're like really shining light

on how they're the most, you could say,

spiritually dense, like the most growth

and possibility for transformation in

those moments. It's easy to be nice to

strangers. It's difficult in moments

when you're triggered by a family member

at Thanksgiving to to to embibe those

virtues, so to speak. One aspect that

feels very predominant in the way that I

see you and the way that I see the

shaolin path also is this level of

self-control.

[snorts] Now I'm curious for you just to

share whatever comes to mind in regards

to self-control and what is the balance?

What is the dance between

healthy regulation of thoughts and

emotions so that you don't identify

yourself as them and where it leans too

much into or where it can be suppression

of emotion?

>> What do you what do you think about

that?

>> Thank you for mentioning this example.

It's the perfect one for me.

>> It's the perfect one for me. So

unconsciously and maybe without even

knowing

I'm extremely good in

keeping all type of energies for me.

Yeah. So regardless of why do I keep

them for me?

I would say

that thanks to the education of my

parents on the one side but also due to

the training and in the way of how that

whole martial arts system is being let's

say being taught it's very clear that in

those areas in these Asian traditions

you always have this very clear master

student relationship

meaning the commands come from top to

down. The only thing you are supposed to

do is to follow the instructions.

It's not so important how you feel as

long as you fulfill the orders of your

superiors.

So that means until today I would say

Asian culture is not very well known for

being able to openly communicate

emotionally with any other um with any

other beings especially when

simultaneously you are a martial art

practitioner.

So what did it mean for me on the long

run growing up with this? It meant that

for example no matter how I felt there

was literally nobody ever in my

surroundings I could somehow share with

what I felt. So I just kept it for

myself.

The result of all of this is

that

my endurance of taking suffering and

pain is extremely high. my level of

resilience is extremely high. [snorts]

Therefore, I think it's one of the

reasons why in the first place until

today I'm like still standing and why

all of these things were happening

because I can easily go and go and push

push forward.

But at the same time, what I hap what I

what I felt is

I'm a high achiever. I can do all of

these things, but this one

it's never satisfied.

Something's missing.

Yeah. And so my example is suppression

of energy, suppression of emotions is

not the way. Is not the way. Which made

it extremely hard for me to open up

>> to open up. Yeah. which is still like a

process which is ongoing but where I'm

also like very very grateful for the

people that I have where I can open up

to

and you know this is for example like a

topic right now I'm happy that you're

mentioning it but in the way of how like

Shaolin nowadays is being propagated

this one doesn't play a role at all it

is interesting that the people can do

all the acrobatics and all the great

stuff. Yes, on the outside it looks

great. There it doesn't look great at

all

and this is not how it's supposed to be.

So therefore [snorts] um yeah

really paying attention how did the past

um

how did the past shape you? And this is

therefore why sometimes it's just

necessary to look into the past again in

order to resolve it.

>> And this is probably nothing that

nowadays you would say what Shaolin is

known for.

>> So how do you cuz people give what seems

like conflicting advice. One says feel

feel all your feelings. Some other might

see a more stern, stoic individual

saying, "Don't be swayed by the whims of

your emotional state."

So, [laughter]

so what to do?

Surely there's a middle way. Yes,

it's undeniable that

we are conditioned.

Our body is conditioned. The way of how

we are thinking is conditioned. This is

the part that we refer to as this is

karma.

There are habits meanwhile of living so

long on this earth. Habits that we carry

along with us. So now of course you

could say

so we need to do healing our whole life

until all of our negative habits and all

of our negative triggers are being

removed. That's why people apparently go

on a healing journey their whole life.

This is the one area. [gasps]

The other area is like you just said to

maybe

um suppress

or just get yourself out of the

circumstances that anything could

actually arise that would give you a

hard time.

And the middle way

is the one where you just start

realizing

that

this one has no karma.

This one is the one

for which all of the things appear and

disappear again. And as long as you

somehow learn to not get hooked upon

them, I think this is the shortcut.

This is the shortcut.

At least this is the path that right now

I feel the most

resonance with

because something is just telling me

like

again searching

again trying to look for something that

apparently right now I don't have no no

meanwhile I really feel like enough.

Why?

Because I do think that the answer must

be here right now.

And after like just contemplating and

being like really present, there's

something that I literally sense.

There is a type of stability that is

present at all times. And regardless of

what comes up or disappears again, there

is a type of stability. That's it.

and to practice just maybe to stay more

in that state

is already very very helpful.

It feels like there is a big interplay

in the way that you write also about

these different dynamics how it's

important to have that stability within

yourself and then also have the

adaptability

uh the structure and the freedom and I

feel like we have this programming that

like freedom means you can do what you

want when you want how you want with who

you want as much as you want and one who

goes down that path experiences a lot of

lethargy and not an experience of

freedom. So I would love to get your

perspective on how freedom is truly born

through structure.

Okay. [snorts]

This book was written in a time where I

was still in the space of

achieving going forward moving doing

and all of this. So meaning it's an

extremely helpful book for this lifetime

that right now you are having in this in

this form. It helps you let's say it

helps you in this lifetime.

It won't help you if you stay with that

for everything else that is still there.

Yeah. So just don't get me wrong. Okay.

Now

one of the

core

uh sharings that are also mentioned in

his book is exactly this. How does

freedom and structure

how can you understand that they fit

together? And there I used to um tell

the story of how even in our temple you

normally have a very structured daily

schedule. Meaning at what time do we get

up, at what time is the breakfast, at

what time is the training taking place,

at what time are we having working

hours, at what time is lunch, at what

time is dinner, what time are you

supposed to go into bed.

similar like military structure.

What is the whole idea of this

you take from whoever joins this

structure? You take away the necessity

to even think about what needs to be

done. What needs to be done? It's

written on the plan. So what is your job

actually to learn

at some point?

Because let's just imagine you would

come as a visitor and join us a little

bit in the temple and you have your

daily structure here already. So it's

very likely that if you come you're not

going to like that that that schedule.

You still feel tired in the morning.

Nevertheless, it's wake up time. You

don't feel like doing the training, but

it's training time. And so what you are

being faced with all the time is with

your thoughts.

All the time your body is living the

structure but your mind is having a lot

of resistance against it. So are you

free? No. You are enslaved by the mind.

But after some time when you start to

literally give up your resistance

which happens by consistency

first week you still fight against the

schedule. Second week you might even

feel like oh cool actually it's not so

bad. Third week fourth week oh you

actually start to really go into the

structure surrender into the structure

and suddenly all sorts have disappeared.

So what is it that has happened?

Even so it looks so rigid but [snorts]

you inside are just free.

And this is this is the first type of

understanding that

the true freedom is is that one that you

could even be in jail.

Your body is in jail. The important part

is but the mind is not supposed to be

there.

And out here in the world it's exactly

the opposite.

You have the possibility of traveling

the world and going everywhere and

having so much comfort

but you're still enslaved

because of that one.

So which one is the freedom? And this is

what how we understand or what I try to

share a little bit in the past that

really

going into like a

a structured day removes the thinking

and when that happens

thoughtfree space it feels good from

time to time it really feels good. This

is the whole practice of it and why I

also feel like from time to time it's

good to make this experience.

Yeah. Because

the alternative is you have 24 hours to

freely decide what you want to do at

what time you want to eat what you eat.

And does it make you free? No.

>> I love that distinction between the

physical versus the mental enslavement.

You know the we we presume freedom is

this physical autonomy and yet so many

of us suffer with our mind feeling like

it is anything but free. And

what's sad is that so many of us grow up

in an education system where we are not

taught the simple mechanics of how this

body and mind work and function. Simple

things about the breath that we're just

like never taught. And so what I thought

would be really fun to do and is is a

bit unique cuz we haven't really done

this on on the podcast yet. So, this is

kind of first to step out. Uh, for those

that are listening, probably hop over

over to check out the visual, but I

thought we could go outside.

It's uh should be around about sunset

right now. And maybe you could share a

couple practices with us all that would

help us understand our body and our

breath a bit more.

>> Absolutely.

>> Let's do it.

>> Brilliant idea. [laughter] Let's go.

Okay.

>> All right. So, here we are. What are we

going to do? [laughter]

So, I mean, Andre, you asked me. You

want me to smash some bricks, which is

not a problem at all, but I think I

would just like to guide you through a

little bit of what is it really that at

the end you're putting it all all

together that makes this more easily

possible actually to break.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah. Which means for example, does the

breath matter? Absolutely. Because with

our breathing we do have an effect on

what in the field of martial arts we

sometimes call chi or energy. So

therefore I would say let's just start

very very easily. Um both feet

approximately shoulder wide.

>> Got to get ready for this.

>> Yes. Get ready.

And what is the what is the intended

purpose of the like uh these practices

and the brick smashing is like uh when

people observe it shows that you are

able to literally deliver power.

>> Yeah. So deliver power is the one thing

also demonstrates that your fist or your

so-called body weapons have a certain um

strength but for right now very easily

let's just do some inhalation exhalation

in order to synchronize breath and body

from here inhale

with the hands

>> just like chest level exhale

in

and out. You know, just continue with

this pattern of inhaling, exhaling, but

simultaneously

sense inside of the body and release all

unnecessary tension. Drop the shoulders,

drop the tailbone, make the knees a

little bit softer.

Now this time we're inhaling in the same

way

but exhaling both palms to the front.

Yeah. Stretching the fingers.

Inhaling. Come back.

Exhaling down.

Now just relax a moment.

So you see at some point the breathing

is in

out in

out in

out

in. That means it becomes very natural

that however the body is moving it is

always accompanied by the breath still

like in out.

>> Okay. So this is like a typical practice

where when you repeat it more and more

every day very slowly with patience

breaths and movement start to literally

synchronize

which is important. For example, when we

try this

both hands let's say just stretch

[snorts] inhale

out

in

out. Now you see for example if I like

display it with my body when I open see

body is completely open legs are like

stretched fingers are stretched this is

all inhalation it's like I inhale fill

up my body on the exhalation even if I

make it slow you know I see I start to

shrink the volume of my body starts to

get small

in

out,

in in

out. And so this is the same. Yeah. For

example, really practicing no

resistance, no nothing. But

I can feel when you do this terraining

more often you can literally feel

I just call it did it arrive or not.

>> Yeah. I can't like literally explain now

what is it that is arriving. I just know

>> it has arrived.

>> I just know. Yeah.

>> Because it's also like I show you a

little bit. If you just like hold my

hands like now, see if you like just

feel, you see, I would actually say my

it's I'm I'm empty.

>> No, if you touch me, I'm like empty.

>> No, it's like you're just touching me on

the outside, but I'm empty.

>> When I'm here.

>> Mhm.

>> You know, now it's different.

>> Yeah.

>> Now it's like empty again.

>> Mhm.

>> This is now you know I'm here.

>> Yeah. No. And it's this very very subtle

shift which is also happening what I'm

paying attention on when I smash these

bricks. Okay.

>> So that means I don't want to let's say

hit it

>> and in the moment of hitting this is

empty. I want it to be as full as it can

be. And this is being done on the one

side by being able to regulate your

breath, synchronizing body and movement.

So, and now of course the other part,

the other truth is you won't smash these

if like your how I say this, if your

bone structures,

>> yeah,

>> is not really conditioned. Let's say,

>> yeah, you got you got some strong bone

density there. [laughter]

Like it's like a

>> No, I'm sorry. You asked me for it.

Yeah. I think my assistant told me you

wanted to actually try some

>> iron bars.

>> Here we go.

>> You You're lucky I'm right now not in my

full training, but

>> just want you to like literally feel for

yourself

>> what like sometimes the human body is

really capable of.

>> So just take from here this part of the

body which means this area and we just

like slowly do this. Okay.

So

right now for example I'm just telling

you this is now like I have there's no

intention there is no real energy in

there. Yeah. Now I just give you the

first stage of when I start to put

intention in

first stage. Yeah.

>> How many stages are there?

>> No. Let me give you second.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah. [laughter]

>> Yeah. You sense already.

>> Yeah.

>> It's absolutely not comfortable.

>> I know.

>> Yeah. It's like hitting a iron bar or

something.

>> Yes. And this is just like if you do

this on a regular basis,

>> it's not only that you do all of this

with the mind. Yeah,

>> it is real training of having a training

partner and doing this type of exercise.

Yeah.

>> Always every day together with a

training partner

>> and then the body just starts to really

develop tissue, additional tissue which

makes it really really solid. So and

after this type of conditioning then for

what are these things used to really

just demonstrate ah okay he can do it.

>> Mhm. So yeah, I don't know if you want

me to do it now. So yeah, we can bring

it. So let's see. We got a couple of

bricks.

Um,

so you would place a brick some

something like this.

So for example, yeah, just if I make it

like as a as a dry practice,

it's the same like I showed you before.

[snorts] Inhale.

Exhale.

>> Inhale.

Exhale. And what I'm paying attention to

right now is just

I need it to be full. I need it to be

full. So therefore now I just do some

concentration.

The hard ones.

got the extra 100 bricks today.

[laughter]

Should we get a different surface?

>> You have another surface?

>> Yeah, let's get a different one real

quick.

>> Let's try another one.

>> Okay. Could bring a rock over.

Let's try this one. Okay.

>> I'm sorry, little plant.

This is definitely

Americanmade.

>> And look at how how dense that

>> hard bricks. You got like indestructible

bricks, bro. Where do you get these?

>> Wherever you get this one from,

[laughter] tell them it's a really good

quality. I'm definitely not trying that

now.

>> Like for example, what we regard as

forms at some point when you practice

like the mash arts is similar like a

choreography.

>> Yeah.

>> That in the beginning it's like you have

different moves then you merge them

together and then they become like a

sequence. And the nice part about it is

that after some time you're actually

getting into a type of flow where

there's no thinking anymore. Give you

for example simple flow we can do

together.

>> Okay. Is that here?

>> Yeah. From here bring the hands to the

front.

>> Mhm.

1

2

3

4

five

back. Let me show show you just from

here.

>> One,

two, [snorts] three,

four,

five.

This is like one [snorts] type of

sequence that we can do. Okay.

>> Front.

>> Mhm.

>> Down.

Up.

Out. Yeah. So, let's try this together.

Okay.

1

2

3

4

5

down.

One more time.

Hands to the front.

One,

two,

down.

front

down.

>> Something like that.

>> Something like that. Let's try from

here.

>> Okay.

>> One. Turn the body to the left side.

Okay.

>> Left side.

>> Right leg. Step out.

Open.

Step in.

>> Okay.

>> Let's just make two movements from here.

Step out.

Step in.

>> Okay. Step in.

>> Okay. Step out. Both arms also pointing

outwards.

>> Okay. Left leg straight.

And from here, both arms rotate, rotate,

rotate, rotate. Right leg step [snorts]

in small.

Yeah. Go out.

>> Now here, for example, pay attention the

way of how the hands are moving.

Rotate. Rotate. Rotate. Here. Now you're

here.

>> Okay.

>> You see? So, there's a rotation of arms.

>> Step out.

Remember the rotation this direction.

Step in.

Out.

In.

Yeah. Yes.

Rotate.

Yes. Now just have a look for example.

>> Yeah. Look the whole idea is

like on a philosophical point of view we

want to use the body as one unit as one.

So look when

You see this is this is the movement we

just did. But look how everything is

here.

So when my when my

center

center shoulder waist move everything

move when I open my center

one

[snorts] and this is for example how

then until now everything is gentle

gentle

but using this idea of

we have high therefore we have low. We

have left therefore we have right. We

have close therefore we have open. We

have soft therefore we have hard. We

have soft

therefore we have [snorts]

hard.

[snorts]

Yeah. So, and this is where then you can

[snorts] just practice how to release

energy.

>> What what is the point of the of these

like choreograph movements? What are you

cultivating? What's the intention? And

how could somebody take one of these

practices they saw or maybe others that

you share in your book and online? What

are they cultivating? So on the one side

it is

while doing all of this thing no

thinking.

So definitely I don't have right now any

type of problem that's outside of where

I am right now. So it means you really

learn to focus on the one side. But then

the way how to move the body is in you

know the idea is that we're using

everything as like one unit like in

harmony and what it does therefore when

the body use in harmony your energetic

system also starts eventually to adjust

itself and become harmonious like what

sometimes we call the meridians the

channels or the energy in your chakra.

However you call it, by using the body,

you're naturally harmonizing all of it,

which eventually means what is the

benefit? You're not sitting the whole

day, not using the body, and therefore

all the energy inside the body starts to

get crazy in having thoughts that are

not useful and helpful at all.

>> Mhm.

>> Yeah. So you you start to create crazy

thoughts because you haven't used your

body to help you regulate your energies.

>> So what is the first thing that happens

that people will realize in daily life

when they start doing movements more?

You feel more balanced. You feel more

harmonious in a very natural way. Yeah.

No esoteric uh component to it.

>> Just very naturally. You have a body,

therefore use it

>> in a in a different way that typical

exercise might, right? So like with

physical exercise, lifting weights,

compare it to some of these more uh some

of these practices that perhaps have a

more energetic component to it.

>> Mhm. I think it comes from the fact of

that you don't have any type of let's

say machinery.

>> There is nothing else that you are

working with only with yourself. You

work with your own movements, with your

own body, with your own joints, with

your own breath, with your own mind.

That's all you need. Mind, body, energy,

meaning breath.

>> And so this is the idea why, you know,

it's available to everyone. I would say

this is the the easiest and most

affordable, most quickest way of doing

something for yourself.

>> Yeah, that was challenging, too. like a

few of the a few of those movements. I

was like out of breath after doing a few

of them, which I think I'm in decent

shape. So cool. Well, let's go. I have

some questions. Let's go back in the

studio and let's chat more about this.

Cool.

>> All right.

>> All right. Don't hit me too hard.

>> Hard, man. Your forearms.

>> Fun. Fun. It's a It's like a recess when

you're a kid. You get to go outside and

play, [snorts and laughter]

>> man. It's so uh so very fascinating and

just impressive. Also, I think what is

so uh attractive initially to what

people see online with with Shaolin

monks is these incredible physical feats

uh breaking bricks and woods and metals.

And it's yeah, it's very inspiring to

see how far this body can be pushed um

with a level of mastery.

I've also seen some crazy things online

whether or not they're real with people

doing stuff with their chi and um

you can also feel it like there's

obviously a a real dense physicality to

the movements when you exert yourself in

a certain way

but there's an energetic component that

from maybe more of a scientific lens

[snorts] uh it it feels a bit woo but I

think in in the real practice uh you

feel you feel so

so immediately and um I'm just curious

for you to share your thoughts on on

that component that the that component

that she and the energy

I mean let's

you know all of these things of breaking

the stuff and all these apparently

superhuman feats yeah

after all you see humans doing the

things here so first of all Meaning why

is it superhuman? It is humans right now

doing it. It is just that

many of these

people have just dedicated a lot of

their lifetime

in cultivating something through

consistency, maybe even through passion.

And this is the ingredient for just

about a lot of things when it comes to

if you really want to achieve something,

that's just the way to go.

But now in this field of martial arts we

call it having a skill, developing a

skill. But there are other areas in this

world where you are also like completely

amazed by what are people able to do

which have now nothing to do with

martial arts but is still very very

impressive.

So

it is nice of course to look at all

these things. It is also nice to be in

the training sometimes and like uh show

off a little bit what you have learned,

what you can do, all of these things.

But and now it's important again in

[snorts] the context of that one.

It's rather counterproductive even I

would say. Why? because you're trying to

develop and create something that more

and more just literally strengthen

strengthens your sense of false self if

you don't pay attention.

>> But core teaching is not about that. So

this is the part where I would just say

you can train all of these things. It is

fun in a way, but don't forget the

essence of why are you training all of

these things. And the why is

to maybe help you to use all of these

things as a bridge. as a bridge meaning

[snorts]

to

yeah to at some point

make the jump from the physical

physical and visual aspects to something

that cannot be seen

but okay anyhow

>> it's fun for sure

>> super fun

I would love to come next time in Europe

if you're at the temple I would love to

come

>> absolutely Yeah, I love just being a

student and uh there's so much to absorb

there. For everybody that's listening

right now, what's one thing you would

teach them about the breath in a very

practical sense that they can carry with

them?

>> So also this is one thing that I

mentioned in uh in the book also

we can live without a lot of things in

this world. We can't live without the

breath. But the breath is so

undermined in terms of we literally

don't pay any attention to it and just

think it's about in and out. Okay. So

what is the first thing people can do?

It's not just in and out. What you can

pay attention on is how much in, how

much out, or how fast in, how fast out,

or [snorts]

how let's say

how how deep actually do you follow the

breath entering through the nose inside

of the body. This is where you hear

about abdominal breathing, reverse

breathing, danten breathing, doesn't

matter. The whole idea is by practicing

becoming more aware, the breath can

actually travel quite deep. This is how

it feels into the body. Then [snorts] it

is not just a shallow breathing which is

related to the chest and the lungs. it

[snorts] actually becomes the fuel

for for the whole body.

Yeah. So, and these are all like things

how the breath can actually also be

uh a very nice meditation object

meaning something to put your mind on

and just follow the flow of breath.

just walk through the day, follow the

flow of breath. So, and um why is this

like very helpful? Because through the

breathing you can adjust at least and

regulate quite a lot also about all

different types of imbalances that

people nowadays have. I wonder how much

of the imbalances and illnesses and

sickness and disease could be really

regulated and supported by simple

understanding of our breath.

>> It's not only the breath, it is the

whole lifestyle itself.

>> This is why in in [snorts] traditional

teachings there are literally like three

areas to really like pay attention on.

Yeah. It's your lifestyle.

It is the way of what are you breathing

and literally it is the diet to to boil

it down like you want to make some big

changes in your life those three areas

what is your lifestyle meaning what time

do you wake up what time do you go to

bed what are you with in what type of

surroundings are you spending your time

in second of all everything related to

the breath

do you have develop breath, do you

breathe shallow, do you smoke anything

like this? And number three is your

diet.

All these three things together makes a

big big amount of how do you feel on an

average day? What problems

mental and psychological and also

physical problems are you facing? I do

feel like those three areas is something

where you can directly look into.

It seems like so much of the

advice, the conversation, the

inspiration, the ideas that we're

sharing are all aiming towards alignment

in some context, in some way, in some

fashion. And

the eight-fold path is very much so

referring to the various different

aspects to find that a level of

alignment for right speech and thought

and action. What does right in that

context mean? uh to take it to one

example like right view.

What does that mean for you?

Let me try to really make it not too

complicated for people and and

especially not too religious for people

also because the noble eight-fold path

is often related to Buddhism and still

many people in this world are believing

that Buddhism is a religion or Buddhism

is let's say a way of life but

as for my understanding in the first

place it is a practice.

It is a practice. And what is this

practice aiming at? And therefore, let's

jump very very clearly back. What is the

aim of Buddhism? Let's say to liberate

ourself to transcend the cycle of birth

and death. Why? Because if you don't

transcend it, you suffer. So meaning

what's the purpose of Buddhism? To not

suffer anymore.

What is the reason why we human suffer?

Greed. We want more than we need.

Hate. We reject sometimes or have

resistance against what we are facing.

But the third one very interestingly is

called ignorance.

And now ignorance for what?

ignorance for the reality, the truth of

how things are.

And this

ignorance meaning as long as you

identify yourself with this with the

body and the mind,

you are ignorant. You're ignorant for

how the things truly are. Now we're

living in the 21st century and it feels

super strange now for me to sit here and

try to convey to the audience also that

there might be the possibility that what

you regarded as self and identity up to

this point is not the way how it is.

And if you continue to ignore this

um statement, the chances are high, you

continue to suffer. And now based upon

this these three uh these three um let's

say views right now, greed, hate,

ignorance, this is where a stepbystep

instruction for example is [snorts]

starting with the noble eight-fold path.

So if people want to know so what am I

supposed to do now

like practical wise like stepbystep

guide it is exactly this watch your view

how are you viewing yourself into this

world the right way the perfected way of

viewing yourself embedded into this

nature

because if you have

a false view already. If you're looking

at the world with false eyes,

then everything that follows afterwards

is not based on truth anymore. It is

again based on your thinking, based on

your own imagination. Therefore, meaning

um

the consequences of false speech, of

false action, of false behavior is just

going to follow. Yeah.

So [snorts] what's the way to do?

I do feel like taking your time and

literally opening the space and the

possibility. How come that the audience

right now is watching this podcast with

a very very clear title know thyself

and me sitting here trying to already

like for the last like four podcast like

keep telling the same stuff over and

over again that I feel like something is

shifting in this world and it's all the

question about realizing

Yeah, it's different.

Yeah. And I don't know how how else to

say this.

>> So I I wouldn't say it's a it's a

coincidence for whoever is watching this

episode right now,

seeing this one, seeing you, seeing me,

and listening to whatever they were

listening right now.

And that is at least from my side now

also the final message. Yeah.

To continuously walk right now in this

lifetime and always just looking for new

input, new input, new input, new input.

But not actually taking really into

consideration what is right in front of

your eyes. This is also ignorant.

It's already here.

It has already been spoken many many

many times and that's why looking for

more knowledge and for more information

but none of that putting it into real

experience and and re and and practice

and real life is not helpful at all and

it's just going to bring you nowhere.

So therefore, listening to one podcast

and really trying to maybe go into it

and deeply contemplating about the

content of what just has been said

sometimes is more useful than [snorts]

just waiting for the next podcast to

come and look for more input

>> just to like distract your mind.

Yeah, I think that's an important

reminder cuz especially

I mean I love listening to podcasts. I'm

sure people that listen to mine listen

to many others and they hear these words

and um

there's these insights and and words

that can be shared, but the experience

is what essentially can't be

transmitted. And and so it kind of comes

back to I feel like that reminder you're

giving everyone to like put it into

practice and to your own life. Um

the uh for me like cultivating right

view or like the to view things as they

are is like one of my strongest aims and

desires in life. For me it's deeply

painful to be living life in my own

prism of imagination and coloring

circumstance based off my own prejudice.

Um, and I think something I'd love to

get your perspective on is there are

clear blockers throughout time that many

different individuals have come to

realize that are consistent throughout

humanity and the the way this human mind

and body is set up and uh you refer to

the five hindrances. There's many

different ways and frameworks to

explore. What are the consistent

blockages or blockers to accessing our

true self? Um, I think that's really

important to to go and and now and I

know you have shared many times on

different podcasts and whatnot, but I

think it's important to keep sharing.

>> Okay.

>> Prior of me traveling to the US for

example and also like knowing already in

preparation there are going to be so

many people asking me questions. Yeah.

I also consulted with with my teacher

and asked him so cuz he kept on telling

me be careful the more you talk the more

you talk the more you try to explain how

this life is functioning

you are actually misleading the people

he always told me talk less

talk less and just how I say he just

said talk less don't try to answer

questions of each individual, [snorts]

you need to break the question.

>> And I was contemplating then at some

point like what do you exactly mean? And

he just told me like this, if you have

50 podcasts, you're going to receive

minimum 50 different questions. And I

could continue in this lifetime

answering these questions.

First of all, most of the time these

questions are always asked

because the individual who is asking

how I say this

actually knows the answer already.

The question is the answer.

Second point he said is

don't focus on the question.

Why?

Always try to point back and ask

where's the question coming from and

where is the question returning back.

This is the answer to all the questions.

This is the answer to all the questions.

So stop trying to give everyone a single

key to unlock their one question.

Just try to give them the master key

which is not even me giving to you which

is you just realizing for yourself by

figuring out where did that question for

example come from

and where will it go?

That is the state to stay and then

nothing needs to be done anymore.

Too many question just brings back to

thinking.

Thinking is what stops from

realizing,

conceptualizing the five hindrances, the

noble eight-fold paths, the four noble

truths, the whatever commandments

is concept.

Concept can never be truth.

Truth can never be spoken.

That's why it said you can't read it to

get it. It can only be transmitted

sometimes. And when you are lucky

enough,

it just happens without any recipe of

how did you get there? It just happens

and that's what I trust.

>> Mhm. I agree. I think that

especially in the podcast space um it's

a delicate balance right cuz here we are

supposed to be talking on a podcast

>> and it's a balance at least for me you

know as a someone who's asking questions

uh surely if the seeking and the

question asking is sincere then surely

there would become a point in which one

no longer wonders about the same

questions and so for me I'm in my own

inquiry of like what questions questions

are being asked that I think will

actually provide a useful framework that

eventually will have to fall away but

will be useful in the meantime for those

listening. Um where is my genuine

seeking coming from? Where are my actual

questions? I think that a question well

phrased is an answer half given. Um when

you actually know what it is you're

actually asking. Um it's a whole art

form and something I'm passionate about.

Um, and uh, and so I fully resonate with

you and I do think that these frameworks

with the context that you just gave

allows people to find that reference

point and and pinpoint it in their own

experience, right? Not take it as a

doctrine that just they add into their

mind, but when it comes to sensory

desire, you know, and and how that how

that clouds our mind to like pinpoint

that and name it when it arises in the

moment. So, I would love to still go

through these 500s if you're down.

[laughter]

Good. All of them.

All of them.

Sensory desire,

aversion,

ill will, like monkey mind, let's say,

sloth and torper. So, feeling like not

being able to move forward. And at the

end also um what is the last one? Um

>> skeptical doubt.

>> Doubt. Okay.

At the end you can all view them as

[snorts]

clouds

covering the sky. Very simple like this.

Five hindrances of what in that story of

or how I named it was you're on the

journey up on the hill. Let's say you

have a mission. and you have a goal, a

very clear mission you have and there

are five hindrances that would actually

stop you or make it difficult for you to

continue your clear path. Why? Because

when those five hindrances appear, they

are covering your view. You you're

starting to lose the path what you

initially wanted.

But now in the Buddhist context, those

were named the five hindrances like we

just named them before. Meaning you are

very very easily irritated

by temptation.

Yeah. What? All type of temptation.

Yeah. Temptation to the eye, temptation

to the nose, temptation to the ears.

Doesn't matter. Like you are getting

lost into the pleasantness of life.

>> The sensory experience. the sensory

experience. This is the one part. Yeah.

So that means in practical ways pay

attention of what on a daily basis is

pulling your awareness or your thoughts

on what are you getting hooked that you

would actually feel like. Yeah. But

isn't it a nice thing? Yeah, of course

it's a nice thing. That's why it's easy

to get you hooked. But the devil is not

stupid.

Yeah.

The devil has a very very nice ways of

tempting you. That's why it's not so

easy to sometimes

say no. Okay, this is for example this

idea of watch what is it on a daily

basis that easily hooks your mind even

though you think yeah but isn't it

something beautiful to follow my passion

to follow that call whatsoever. This is

the one one type of cloud that takes you

away from the way. The second one is

that I described as let's say ill will

or aversion meaning

something happens in your life that

literally you don't like it. It feels

unpleasant to you. But because of this

unpleasantness,

you you start to

um create something in order to push all

of these things away from you. So you're

trying to reject something um and not

accepting the fact of it is how it is.

It's raining right now. It is really

difficult to walk. It's not pleasant. I

know. But you can't stop right now.

Either you continue your path or you are

getting again hooked away by the

negative thinking that this situation

that you're in right now should be

different.

But should be is thinking.

So again,

regardless if you're being hooked by

pleasant thoughts

or you are trying to reject unpleasant

thoughts, they all have one thing in

common. Again, we are talking about

thoughts again.

And this just continues even with the

hindrance number three, restlessness.

It's not finding

not finding clarity or peace of mind

because you continuously jump like the

monkey mind from branch to branch very

restless.

But what is it actually that is