Venâncio Mondlane | Activista Político | Inspiração para a Mudança | T1 E54

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Welcome back to

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I'm Isma, and today I have

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grow,

man! And let's get to it, people. I'm here today

with the illustrious Venâncio M. Venâncio Monan

is a guy I admire, I think many

of us admire him, I'm not the only one,

mainly for his

attitude, for the way he faces things, for the way

I consider him

a revolutionary. In my point of

view, I have enormous admiration for him.

He's the first politician I've brought here, and I invited him to be on the

podcast. I

have no

experience talking to politicians; it's a

subject I'm afraid of, but I'm

here to face my fears.

I'm here for that, as I

said before, which is to get out of our

comfort zone and into our

confrontation zone. This is a space reserved for

the very bad ones. I have this

regard for him; I think he

fits that profile that I

call the very bad ones, and I want to have

a conversation with him. I want to

understand

his position, I want to get to know him a

little

better, talk about some

things in general and in depth about some others as

well. That's it, people, let's go.

Venâncio, welcome man. Thank you, welcome

to our podcast, thank you

for

honoring us with your presence. It's an honor to be here

talking to you, for accepting our

invitation. It

's a subject, man, talking to you

always gives me

butterflies in my stomach, right? Just

kidding, it's true, because I

'm not a politician. Okay, I haven't avoided bringing up

political topics on our

podcast, but I'm interested in talking

to you, man, a guy who... I admire you, I

see your struggle, your battle, it's not

from today, and let's

go for it. Yeah, okay, uh, now I don't

know why sometimes in some studios

when you talk, they say, "Hey, your camera is

this one now," I don't know if we're

talking, but when you have something like that

that you want to direct to, I can

speak to that camera, you speak to

that camera, okay? Ah, well, first,

thank you for the invitation, maybe share

some things that we're going to talk about off the record.

Please feel free here,

because I really also... it

's not just a kind of

compensation just because you said some kind

words to me,

I'll do the same, not for that reason, I'm being

very sincere. I met you in a different

environment, in a different circumstance,

you came to provide a service for my

church that had to do with the

Covid era. I really liked your

professionalism, and that's how I

saw you, as a content producer,

as a professional in the field of communication,

but I never imagined that you would

also transition to, let's say, being

an influencer, I mean, a

podcast host who

is currently a reference here in the

country, so

congratulations too. Having accepted this challenge, right? As

you say, moving from the

comfort zone to the confrontation zone. I liked

the expression. So, this challenge, you

can use it, I can

use it. So, this

challenge is to overcome yourself, right? To do

things that apparently some people

think you don't have a

natural ability to do, and you, you, you

naturally accept these kinds of

challenges. That's what makes life, that's what

makes societies leap forward. If

we look at development, for example,

there are countries that

we admire, but how did

that country become such a developed country today,

with such wealth and great

innovations

? What really makes the great

transition is this transition of

everyone leaving their comfort zone for

confrontation. So you find

Dubai, right? It doesn't have minerals, it doesn't have

agriculture, it doesn't have water, and it doesn't have

great wealth and natural resources, but they

used intellectual resources, they used

academic resources, they used

innovation resources, and that made Dubai,

let's say, a

reference today, even for tourism, one of those countries with

more natural resources than

Dubai. So, the secret is there, the

secret is exactly in that. Just

to complete my reference to you,

person. So I congratulate you quite a lot, right?

For this leap you took, this overcoming,

challenging yourself to go to a

field where there are no shadows, everything is solid,

but you went there and the shadow followed

your course, your determination. So, as

a person of faith, there's something I

believe. I know you're Muslim, I'm

Christian, but I believe that some

issues are very common, especially in

faith. One thing is religion, another

thing is faith. Faith in our faith, which I

know is common—I don't know Islam very well,

but I know it's common—is that

first, before I have the cup, I have to

believe that the cup exists, and the

cup comes, it follows what I

believe. So, first, there are people who

believed that the

independence of Mozambique was possible, then

the armament, the organization, the people, the

logistics—they followed or pursued a

belief, followed an ideal, followed a

thought. So, exactly, this

means I believe that whoever believes and whoever

has faith and persists in the physical, material must

follow those who have faith and not those who

have resources. One thing is to have

resources, another thing is to have faith. So,

resources follow those who have faith.

Resources don't follow those who have resources,

so that's more or less it. To

conclude, what's important is taking

the first

step, really getting out there. This is real.

When I say that we have to leave our

comfort zone for confrontation, in practice,

you

clearly mean that if we've reached this point today, we've already

completed a year of existence here on the

podcast. You're already in

our second season. Hmm, okay, okay.

Our idea was one episode per week

for a year, and we've completed 52 weeks already,

so we're really in the second

season. Interesting, very interesting.

Yeah, you too, Venâncio, are a reference

in this sense. You

're here in a fight, man, you're showing your

face, man, you're fighting for your

principles and for what you believe in. And

man, I feel that now, in these recent

events, it seems

things haven't gone very well for

you. For

example, apparently it's sad for me. It's

something,

man, this repercussion is something I think

you didn't deserve. Hmm, hmm, oh, I'd prefer it,

man. But politics is what they say,

politics is dirty, man, I'm seeing that

happening to you. It's not even

something from the opposition party anymore, it's something

that's happening inside your own

house, of course, of course, of course, without a doubt.

Look, for example,

if we were to talk a little about the

election results, it's not... uh-huh, it's like this, you

know, sometimes when I say this,

people say you're not talking about that. It's

a motivational issue, you know,

like you have motivational speakers here,

those guys always say, "Think

positive, always think this and that." And

sometimes they themselves are the most depressed,

so saying, "No, you're being

motivational." No, I'm being as

sincere and honest as

possible. I'm not shaken, I mean

shaken in the sense of a guy who's

down, because in fact it became more

than clear that we won the elections

in the city of Maputo, and I'm not just saying this

as casual conversation, coffee shop talk. I

presented data that

anyone can access online. We

created a link on Google Drive

that anyone, national or

foreign, can enter and see the results, polling station by

polling station, school by school, and

do their calculations for everything. The

entire city of Maputo, this is the

first time this has happened in the

electoral history of this city since

1975 until

today. There has never been a case of a

general election (now municipal elections, which began in

1993) where

the opposition

managed to have all the

evidence of its defeat or

victory. This was the first time it happened

on October 11, 2023.

We set up a scheme, we organized, we changed

the paradigm of how the vote is controlled, and

we managed to have all the minutes and notices from all the polling stations in the

city of Maputo. We

even scanned these minutes and notices

and made them available to the public.

I even made a presentation to

the diplomatic corps in Mozambique;

practically all the countries that support

the General State Budget, the entire G8,

were there. I presented step by step

what supported our claim that we

won in the city of Maputo, and we even

got the electronic link and gave it to all

the embassies. The embassies sent their

staff. One of the embassies did the

calculation and arrived at exactly the same

results as us. We won the

elections in the city of Maputo with 55%.

All the embassies did the calculation and

arrived at that conclusion. There's a group

called "More Integrity," a

consortium of seven of the

strongest civil society organizations in

Mozambique, and they arrived at exactly the same

calculations as us: 55%. So, when I

say we won in the city of Maputo, I'm

talking about evidence that exists to this

day. That's water under the bridge, man. You think I've

seen

this before, but it's always that thing,

right? Because it was noticed that your campaign,

at least here, was a

euphoric campaign. It was something that... well, but the

results... man, I'm not going to get into that. I don't

know why... well, it's a different

story. But now I can, I can

perhaps explain to you why this

campaign was different... and why it

created such a commotion, such a huge

impact... this campaign that

we did... a simple reason. We were still off the record, there

with our

friend, whom you had challenged to

come on the program and say what he was

saying outside, but he said, "Hey, no, no, I can't

talk." I'm talking about everything here, but live

on air—and don't put me there, don't put

a camera there—I'm not going to talk about that, okay? One of the

things we're talking about is that, and

you said this, the city of Maputo

today, for example, is that everyone lives their own life.

Today, families no longer have that

community spirit that we used to have,

like a big family. You'd

knock on your neighbor's door—ah, back then

not everyone had a

television, but you could go to the house of

someone who did. You'd knock on the door, they'd greet you

joyfully, everyone would sit down,

but it was very natural, right? Nowadays, there's

a tendency for people to live a

more isolated life, much more

isolated. There isn't that warmth, that

natural camaraderie that used to happen.

Exactly, we don't have

that anymore. We're losing it for that reason. The

idea that was created is that Maputo, from a

political point of view, wasn't

mobilizable. That is, for you to organize a

political event, to get 100

people... Look, it's something that would require

an astronomical effort to get 200

people; it would be a great victory if you

could manage to get... 200 people

walking down the street with flags and

t-shirts, oh man, that's when you said it was the

gold on blue, naturally, in the

central and northern zones, for example in

Climan, in Não Pula, it's natural to have

10,000, 15,000 people to run a

campaign, but it's a joke to have 200

people, that's a feat. So this is what got into the

heads of, for example, the party that's in

power now, to get 300

people, they have to send buses

to the neighborhoods, they have to promise food, they have to

promise drinks for the young people

who, after our march, will drink, will do whatever,

so all kinds of promises

to get 200, 300

young people, and this is because it shocked

the city of Maputo for the first time,

you saw, without giving food, without promising

drinks, without sending buses to the

neighborhoods, having

7,000 people marching in the city center,

following the individual, I remember that image, it

passed on Avenida Guerra Popular, it was

full, yes, yes, yes, the worst day, the worst

was on the

27th of... October 2023, the worst or the best?

Ah, I say the worst in the sense of the

adversaries because they never, ever

want to, I'm sure they never will want to.

Remember that day when we left

Praça dos Trabalhadores (Workers' Square)? Let's not focus

on the adversary, my dear, let's leave that aside, let's

talk, I want to talk about you.

Exactly when we left Praça dos

Trabalhadores and entered 24 de

Julho Avenue, hum, there were undoubtedly

almost 10,000 people walking

spontaneously. That's why when

we arrived at Interfranca, due to the

frightening Valencia, we were stopped by the

police. A great confrontation with

tear gas began, including the use of

live ammunition. I think many people saw the

images that went viral on social media

of men in civilian clothes with

K47s in their hands, so they fired

live ammunition at the demonstrators because it was

never imagined in the city of

Maputo that 10,000 people would be walking on an

avenue with such a focus, so that was

frightening, wasn't it? So,

people might ask, but why did

this happen here in the city of Maputo,

so much mobilization of people, so much?

Avalanche of people, what was

behind all that? What's behind all

that? Ah, without wanting to toot

my own

horn, and without ceasing to be modest

because I know you're very modest, aren't you?

You're a very humble person. So maybe, maybe not, no, no, no, no, no, to

unbalance your

humility, also be a little

humble. And I believe that one of the issues

that mobilized people in the city of

Maputo

is that,

ah, they saw a

politician whose words reflected what

he believed. So I was

listening here a little while ago saying that

politics is dirty, really, politics is

dirty because... Because many times the

political discourse made public doesn't

exactly reflect what the politician thinks and

feels inside. You know how

I decipher that right away? When the politician is

incapable of having a speech without reading it, yes, yes,

most, 90% of the guys I

see who have directors or

specials, man, I don't know how they

put up with that, man. Yeah, but that, that's

a shame. This is poverty, a

very deep poverty. I don't know

what to say. It seems like I'm being

told to read this

[Applause].

I have to speak from the heart.

People have to look, people have to

believe that this individual is speaking

from the heart, is speaking

spontaneously. Okay, and this is what mobilizes

people. This is what mobilizes hearts.

This is what touches people's souls. This

is what makes someone leave their house

even without having breakfast, even without the

promise that there will be breakfast

that they didn't have at home, but the person

takes a sign and marches for 10 hours

from Zimpeto to the

city center under a 40º sun. This is what

does that. When you touch

people's souls, when you speak to

people's hearts, and people look at you and

believe that this man is saying what he

feels, is saying what he believes,

is saying what he is willing to

give everything of himself so that this can

happen. So the day we have

a politics that is done like this, you

will see that the image of politics... Dirty, things

will change, but Francio, let's say here in

Mar Salva, you're bad at oratory, at

speeches, and at how to use words.

How to do this, man, there are few, because there are

some even from the

Frelimo party and all the others, but hey, your

posture is something that stands out, it's something that makes you

stand out in the crowd. TS, I

understand, I see it this way, I became somewhat

enamored with your

speech because of your way of

expressing yourself, your way of being, your

way of speaking, of using words that are

easy to understand. TS, I understand, that's what

Malta identifies with, the

public, the common people, all of us, man, that's what

Malta wants, we want someone, I'm already talking about

myself, we want someone who can have a

speech like mine, from me to me, yes, yes, yes,

that I can understand exactly, man.

What is it? I'm already here, man, no, we

're already in 2024, but we're already in a

generation of internet, of

accessible information, of so many other things, we see

the world, man, we're no longer that

illiterate little class that, man, you're going to

control, understand? Access to information

allows us freedom of thought

too, man, and we all want to see

good things, we want our country to have

Good leaders are what we want, that's how I think.

Sometimes I think, okay, Venâncio,

for example, is a guy from the opposition, but he

might have good ideas. Of course, if

your ideas are good, why can't they be

implemented? Why can't others

call him, "Hey, let's

talk, discuss your thing, what's up?"

If you have a solution, the solution

is for everyone. That's how I think. That's an

interesting way of looking at it, but I

can say why that doesn't happen. It does

n't happen for a very

simple reason: only

those in positions of power, of

leadership, but who are

honest, will do that. If you're in a

leadership position, but you're a

swindler, you're a

fraud, you're a crook, you're a traitor, you're

a

corrupt guy, you're a thief, it's not

possible, no matter how much you want to be

open to

integrating people, even if they are of

different political colors,

but who bring ideas. Why?

Because the first thing you should do, the

first thing that comes to mind is that

you have to protect your schemes, you

have to protect your

scams. So, sometimes fear even exists among

these people, but they're afraid

that from the moment we

open up to integrate people, it's

also for my own gain, where they come from above.

So what do they do? They

close themselves off in a circle; you don't have access

to any information. They shut themselves off, and it

becomes something

almost taboo to be there.

There are things today, for example, that

scandalize me:

information that even

public institutions, other types of institutions,

should promote this information to the

public, but it's treated as

confidential information. I'll give you a

very simple example:

if I take you now, go knock on the

door of the Ministry of

Mineral Resources and Energy and ask, for example, for

the list of all the

companies that are doing, for example,

prospecting for oil or gas in the

Rovuma Basin, or that own the mines

of what? Nobody will give you

that information, but that's

public information. It's good that you're

talking about the mines; there's something in

Mozambique, a debate that's been going on for over

20 years, but it's never been resolved. This is what's

called the Mining Registry, meaning

a list of mining concessions

across the country and the holders of

those concessions. It

's a

natural thing, a normal thing. If

I'm exploiting a natural resource, they don't give

us this information. They don't give us this

registry, which is the idea of ​​a

database that you can consult at

any time. It's a debate that's been going on for

20 years, and people always try to

sabotage it so it doesn't move forward because they

know very well that if it's done, it

will become clear

who is exploiting it. "And about exploring

our resources, I'm going to give you a

very interesting piece of information here, I'll even look

at the cameras just for you. Something

I really like about you... You know what? You're the

data guy, man, you have the numbers. You

know, it's impressive, isn't it? It's just that some

things I say, for example,

people ask, 'Ah, but why don't they ever

take you to court?' I don't know, it's just that

some things I say I'm

willing to prove them. For example, what

I'm going to say now... Someone might say it

's very dangerous, but I'm

willing to prove it to everyone after a

challenge like this, in any court,

which is the

following: before the conflict in Cabo

Delgado, the conflict in Cabo Delgado... many

people say it started in July 2017,

but it didn't start then. It starts a

little earlier, but okay, fine, so as not to

confuse things, let's say the

first attack occurred in 2017. Let's

consider that 2017 was the official start of the

conflict, the

insurgency. Ten years before that, that is, 2007. From

2007 to

2017, the number of mining exploration licenses..."

One-third of the number of mining exploration licenses

that began to be granted

from 2017 to 2021 – that's the data I

have – from 2017 to 2021, we're talking about four years, we had three times the

number of licenses

that were granted in the ten years before the

conflict. What does this mean? It

means that from the moment

the

insurgency began, the struggle or the race

for natural resources, especially

minerals, increased three times more. In

other words, when people say

that war enriches some, here's

just one piece of data; we can see

others from this data alone. You notice

that this war in Cabo Delgado is

enriching some. The

question that will arise is:

to whom were these licenses given? That

's another question. It's simple:

see who benefited from

these licenses that emerged from 2017 to

2021. We have data that shows they are some

Renamo members; they are precisely the current

leaders of the country, and more seriously, one of the

holders of a good part of the... Regarding these licenses, it

is precisely the Minister of Defense—that is,

the individual who should be

concerned with defending the population that

is being slaughtered, the population that

is being killed by the insurgents—who is

more committed to investing in mines than to

actually defending the population.

So, with this D alone, I am willing

to prove it. Someone will say, "What financial resources?" I'll

look for them where. I am willing to prove this.

We will go to any court. I will prove

it, and it will get even worse because

we will remove the maps, we will remove the

names and everything else.

So, this here is the big problem

we have: how are

you going to have hope that this war will

end when the Minister of Defense is

one of the biggest holders of

mine licenses in Cabo Delgado? This means

that the conflict is favorable to him. He has

much more possibility of getting rich

now with the war, the insurgency, the

terrorism than before. This is the

big problem: how are you going to stop

the war in Cabo Delgado? So, this is

the big question we have here, hence

my approach. Some

people say, "Ah, but V, because you like to create

controversy." It's not about liking to create

controversy. The problem is that to polemize

is what? To polemize means to create

controversy, right? So, ah,

but maybe to polemize shouldn't

be created, it should be from sheep's pollen,

but okay, sometimes I also invent another

word, but okay. Ah, the big question

here, my brother, is this problem

isn't a problem of Arnal, this problem I

'm explaining here isn't a

problem of Ferlim, it isn't a problem of the MDM.

This is a national problem because it

clearly demonstrates that the

governmental structure, the defense and

security forces, and the Mozambican secret services

are all

more committed to enriching themselves with terrorism

than fighting terrorism. So this is

n't about Deputy Arnal,

this is about you, it's about me

because it's the inheritance we're going to leave

for our children, right? It's the legacy

we're going to leave for our grandchildren, our

children, our great-grandchildren. This is what we

're building in the country, but I don't even

know why I was talking about this. There was some

question, some comment

you made, and I made this

approach, I don't know why, but okay,

some data remains, no, all of that came about because of what

you... You were saying

that if you go to the Ministry they won't

give you the exact data, they'll give you

information that should

be public. For

example, Ismael, in

Mozambique we've had a

contract

with AOL for about 20 years for the Pandar gas pipeline. It would be

important, after

20 years, to tell Mozambicans

what our country has actually gained from that gas pipeline that goes from

Mozambique to South Africa.

Zero. We

have nothing. And a curious thing is that when

Mozambicans want to talk about

this issue, they are still persecuted. The

first one—I don't want to promote that

organization, but I have to say—

they did a study. CIP was the first, the

first research center that spoke

openly about the contract between the

Mozambican government and AOL regarding

Pandar gas, and they questioned why

Mozambique, in fact, up to this point, has had such

miserable gains. It's a

misery that we should have gained in 20 years. In

20 years we gained practically nothing.

What is the response

from the government? There are threats,

false data being used out there, but nothing. The

government has never clarified this

publicly. So this is

important: the contract was renewed. Oh, okay, it's

renewed. So this is

important for Mozambicans to know.

So, because after 20 years of exploring gas in Pando,

which is in Emban, what

profits does

that community get from the gas that has been

explored for 20 years in Amban? What

profit do we get from the coal that

Vale spent more than 10 years

exploring? Now it's passed to Jindal

in Tete, in Moati, in Moati. The

air pollution in Moati is so great that...

Hours after our conversation, you

run your hand across the table, your hand

is black because of the

residue of the

gas dust that was explored by Jindal, which was

previously explored by Vale. What did

that population gain from this? The only

thing you have is that in Katem, where

the population was resettled,

those houses... not even... The ability to

remain standing for 2 years, the quality

of the houses is horrible, terrible, and the population

has given all the resources they have, so what about this? These

are issues we

have to discuss. We are talking here,

for example, just a short while ago, during the

break, about Rwanda. What is

Rwanda doing in Mozambique? What

are the real gains that Rwanda has brought

to Mozambique in relation to the conflict in

Cabo Delgado? Now,

about thirty poor young

men from the Mozambican army have been murdered. My

question is, how many Rwandans have already been

murdered in Cabo Delgado? People

have to ask themselves this question: are

n't the Dutch being killed in Cabo

Delgado? Why are the Dutch in Cabo

Delgado only protecting what they call

Green Zones? The Green Zones

are camps of Total and Exom

Mobil, but nothing. People are dying

2 km away. They haven't fired a single bullet. They are

only focused on defending

Total. So what real help

is Rwanda bringing to

Mozambique? These issues have to

be discussed openly, and they are

essential questions. For the movement of the

country, and if this isn't discussed, there's no

data on it. If you ask for this

information, they'll never give it to you. What

agreement did the Mozambican government have

with Rwanda? Have they made it public? Have

they released the terms of the agreement? What are the

counterparts that Rwanda has in

relation to the supposed defense of

national interest that Rwanda carries out in Cabo Delgado?

What is it? And then, look,

many people only talk about Rwanda. They don't even

imagine... we have many forces here,

we have forces here, we have the Armed Forces

of Portugal, we have the Armed Forces of

France, we have the Armed Forces of

England, we have the Armed Forces of the

United States, we have the Armed Forces

of Israel. I mean, but this is never talked about,

this is never talked about. I

even know the headquarters where they

are, but I won't say it here for

their own security.

So all this isn't talked about in this

country, this information isn't given

to the people, the people don't know about

this at a time when Cabo Delgado is

full of people fleeing. Look, now there's been an

attack, at a time when everyone is

in disarray,

people are being discarded. There is a beheading going on.

There is an organization that has been in existence for less than

two years, to which the Mozambican government

granted 25,000 hectares in Cabo Delgado.

This organization is causing the population to flee,

abandoning the land. The government

demarcated 25,000 hectares and handed it over to an

organization that, in two years, has not yet established itself. What is the

objective of this? When people

say that the real objective is to push the

entire population out of Cabo Delgado,

and Cabo Delgado becomes a kind of

free zone, purely and simply for

mining exploitation by major

international interests with the connivance

of the Mozambican government, that is why

some even suggest the possibility of

Cabo Delgado becoming a kind of

autonomous republic. And it's not crazy

when people talk about this;

all the signs are pointing in that direction.

This information needs to be made public.

Today in Parliament, a

protocol between Rwanda and Mozambique is being discussed in

which Mozambique is willing to extradite

to Rwanda all the people who were

opponents of the Kagame regime. In other

words, Mozambique is accepting that

people will be taken. Those who are refugees are

fleeing oppression and persecution in

Rwanda. They're being taken and handed over to

be shot and murdered in Rwanda.

I saw a post a few days ago, also from that

Angolan fan who was here, I'm already gone.

I fought as far as I

could. Some people ask me, "

But then what am I going to do? Am I

going to put myself in front of the bullets and

fight with all the police?" I don't know, I mean, there's

a limit to the fight we

wage. Some did this fight,

I fought, the

Women's Forum fought, and so many other

organizations that I don't want to

disregard, but there were a large

number of human rights organizations.

We fought as far as we

could, but in the end, the

Mozambican government, violating our own

constitution, our Constitution doesn't

allow what happened, it doesn't allow

everyone who is being persecuted

for political reasons, wherever they are,

we can't punish that person

because there are no guarantees that that

person will receive justice, that there will be

a fair trial. Therefore, what

is happening, we know that Manena

and her family are there for... ...to be executed,

and how can a government, a government, a

sovereignty like Mozambique, send a

family, an individual, his wife, his

two children, to go to a country

knowing they will be executed? That's what

we're doing, we're sending people

to execution.

What kind of country do we have? Where are

we going with a country like this, man?

We have a country that still needs a

lot of work, my friend, and you're

fighting your fight, my friend. That's what it is, man, that's what it is, you do

n't understand? And despite

all these evils, all these forces,

you're there, you're doing it, my friend. I

congratulate you for that, man. I pay my

respects, man. I am grateful that we have

a Mozambican like you,

understanding everything. And man, it's not easy, I believe, my friend, it

's not easy at all. I win, and you've been in this

fight since when, my friend? Ah yes, this

fight, you've been watching. And let's say, how was

your entry into politics? Ah yeah,

good question. It's like this, uh, if you'll

allow me... I hope to be concise, sometimes

some accuse me of not

being concise, so I'll

try. So, it's like this, uh, my

civic career... No. Well, let's put it this way, I've

always had a

natural inclination,

and I'll tell you something as a Christian and

as a person of faith, I believe that

we all have a mission here in this

world. Some discover their mission and

follow it, others die without knowing

what mission they came to

fulfill in this world, which is sad, is

n't it? But it's always good when

we discover what God really

sent us to do in this world, to fulfill that

purpose. What

purpose do you have in this world?

What did you leave to do, to

fulfill exactly what? And what

happened is that since I was a child,

very young – this started when I was 5 or 6

years

old, at school, on the street, in the neighborhood – I

was always inclined to defend

someone who was being wronged.

Those kids, we were playing soccer, and

when a kid was getting beaten up

by the older ones,

I would always step in front, even

without much strength, to defend them.

Sometimes I would get beaten up trying to defend someone,

and that's how I ended up

doing

martial arts. Yes, I did. I'm a martial

arts instructor.

Japanese martial arts, up to the belt I

went up to brown, one belt before

black, oh

enough, I'm structured, ah, now not so much,

not so much, yes, but what

happened was I ended up practicing

martial arts because, well, I wanted to have

better tools to continue

defending my sisters, to

defend my friends, to

defend my neighbors better.

And so, believe me, when I started

practicing at home, almost once

a week, it was natural, even though I still lived with

my parents, someone would come knocking on the door

complaining because, hey, someone beat me up, a

gang from another neighborhood,

so I'd grab myself and go there with

my sneakers, "Where are they? Where are they?"

to defend the kids.

So that was always a

natural inclination. I went to school, believe me, I

was never that well-behaved, I was very

undisciplined, but despite being

undisciplined at school, when it came time

to choose the class leader,

both the teachers and the students

were unanimous, venance, venance, venance,

because they always saw this tendency to

defend the weaker ones. So, when

the students had a problem with

the teachers, I... Raising my hand,

this story of the boss speaking and

everyone remaining silent—this isn't new. Back

when I was in school in the

80s, this happened, and I was one of the few.

When the teacher said, "Is this true

or not?" I'd raise my hand and

ask to speak, and then I'd ask to

speak to defend the students.

Afterwards, there would be applause because the teacher

would send me away, punish me, saying, "

You don't come into my classes! You have to

call your supervisor!" This

story of being punished for defending others is something I'm

used to. From ages 12, 13,

14, I was always punished. It was

a serious punishment because I defended the

weaker ones. So this has always

been a natural tendency in my life.

Until, for example, in 2000, this became even

stronger. Why? Because in

2000, during the great floods, I

mobilized support for the flood victims

throughout the district, where I saw that

the Campano district... District 5.

So I was the coordinator of all the

district's youth aid to support

the flood victims, and we

delivered almost 10,000 tons of

various products, clothing,

household goods, appliances, and we

collected everything. At that time,

I must have been around

16 or 17 years old. We

managed to

gather all the young people from my

district, and we gave about 10,000 tons

of various products to the Red Cross. At

that time, there was a commentator on

television—I think you've heard of

Emilio Manhique, who passed away—the famous

Emilio Manhique, who was a

very good radio announcer with a spectacular voice. He

invited me to TVM to talk about this

achievement. That was more

or less the trigger for my

social activism. From then on, I never stopped. I

started always taking on these

social causes, these causes for others,

helping others, all

humanitarian causes. I was present in all of

them. Well, that just kept going, it kept going.

Skipping a few steps, but one

of the areas I've always enjoyed is

literature. Literature,

meaning reading and writing, I've

always liked it.

I even had a

column in the biggest literary magazine in the

country, called Lua Nova, when I was 18 years old. It was

a magazine from the Mozambican Writers' Association.

I don't know if it's still

published. At the time, the

general secretary of the

Mozambican Writers' Association was called

Marcelo Panguana. This gentleman lived in

the 25th of June neighborhood, where I was

with my parents. One day he visited

my parents and found a text I had written on a table.

I left the text there, went for a walk,

played football, or something like that.

He looked at the text and asked

my parents who wrote this. "Ah, this kid

likes to write,"

my parents said. "He's called Venito." "Ah, it was Venito." He

took the text home, read it, and

was so

impressed that the following week, without

consulting me, he published my text in the

Lua Nova magazine. So, I'm entering this with a

text I wrote occasionally, and

the general secretary of the

Writers' Association... I found it on a table in my

house, took the text and published it, always with the

result. I just want to say congratulations, man!

Congratulations, humble as you are,

publishing in that magazine! Just so you

have an idea, in that magazine, who

wrote? M. Coto, Paulina Chiziane, Marcelo

Panguana, Nelson Saú, they were people of that

stature who wrote for that

magazine, and then this kid, 20 years

old, appears writing, writing, and

everyone was impressed.

So what does that do? It makes me,

really, because I wrote

sports stuff, I never took it seriously. So I

really started to take

the subject seriously and then I started

writing, I wrote for several newspapers,

shared it with several friends, and

then I wrote a text that was the role

of a university student, and I was already a

little more grown up, already in

university, I wrote a text for the

newspaper Notícias, which was the role of a

university student for the

development of the country.

Ah, on television, Gramar, at the time we are

talking about

2003, we are talking about 20 years, right? More

or less 21 years ago, 21 years ago, I

was around 30 years old,

one of the Brazilian directors who... I was

at TV Miramar, back when it was still

analog television, and he read

my text in the newspaper Notícias about paper, a

university shelf, and told me to look for

whoever wrote this text, that I wanted to

talk to him. He told me to look for them, that they

wanted to talk to me. I went to Miramar, I got there and

said, "Look, but you

wrote this text?" He said, "Well,

look, if I put you on television, you

can say what you wrote here."

I've never spoken to a

television camera, I don't have the experience, and I don't know

how to do that. I said, "

Let's

try it." A curious thing, you know, I

interviewed the current governor of Nhan,

Daniel Chop, that gentleman is a journalist, he

was one of the presenters... And a program

on TV Miramar called "The Voice

of P"...

I went to Miramar to talk about a

text published in the newspaper Notícias, which

interviewed the current Governor, Dear

Daniel. I arrived there and had my first

television interview ever,

an hour-long exclusive interview. Wow!

So, I started talking about the text. I

wasn't affiliated with anything, I was a member

of the family party where I was born. I

mean, it's a family party,

I didn't even choose it, you know? They came and

said, "Take a picture, sign

here." I signed, they gave me the card. I

mean, it wasn't a matter of discussion, it was

in the family, it was a family party,

okay? In the interview, I

started talking about the role of the

University Center. The director of

information at Miramar, a Brazilian who

had just arrived, said, "Ah, I said this and that." Then

there were phone calls, I don't know, I grabbed

myself and left. And I was in doubt, if I had

n't messed up there,

well or not. My friend,

Machuabo de, the most famous Machuabo de

in Mozambique, said, "And I thought

I had messed up there."

Oh, the director called me and said, "Wow,

but I think I made

a big blunder here." He said, "Look, there's

something I wanted to tell you." I said, "

What is it?" He said, "Well, we want you

as a resident commentator." "Huh?" I said, "What?" I

thought, "I made a blunder." I said, "No,

you come here as a resident commentator.

We want a permanent contract with you

to comment on Miramar." So in

2003, I started as a resident commentator

on TV Miramar, commenting

on social issues,

education, and

culture. But in

2004, a year later, I started to get interested

in commenting on political issues. That's when

the problem started. I started making

political comments, I started

investigating politics.

And the issue that arose was that I started

criticizing my own party,

which was the party at the time. So I made

very harsh criticisms, and he started

warning me, "Look, you can't do that.

You're a member of the party. You can't

be criticizing the party like that.

Otherwise, I'm a commentator, and I

'm noticing that there are mistakes I've made." For

example, I'll give the first example that

caused me problems. We were... When

discussing the financing of

political parties at that time, it was normal for everyone to

speak ill of Renamo, saying things like, "Ah, Renamo misuses

the funds, receives state funds, and

misuses them." I discovered in the

political party law and the electoral law

that all parties receiving

state funds for electoral processes are

obliged, at the end of the electoral process, to

justify the funds and publish them in the official gazette.

The first offender, who

had never published accounts, was the Renamo party, which

was my party. So I denounced

that very vigorously. I called the

first party bankrupt, fraudulent, and bandit-like,

and I was a member of the Renamo party at that time.

And then the scandal... how can

you say that the party is

bandit-like, fraudulent, and... I don't know what, even

Renamo... this party is

governing, it has greater responsibilities.

The opposition parties have to serve

as an example. So I was called to the

party, I was interrogated, I don't know what... But I

went back to the charge. Well, I went through

those stages until I reached the point where I was

informed by the director of information at

Miramar that they had received

superior orders to fire me.

Commentator, commentator, so I left

Miramar, but months later I was

invited to Atim Atim, which had a

program called "The Hour of Truth." I

also stayed there for months. At that time,

the director was Bruno Morgato, and I

know Bruno, who was my classmate in

primary school. They also ended up

calling me, saying they had orders to

fire me from the "Hour of

Truth" program. So I left there and did

n't do any commentaries for a while. Oh, until

by some

chance I was invited by Daniel

David and Jeremias Langa on STV, who

said they had a challenge for me,

that they saw my commentaries and

wanted me to go to ESSV for the "

Points of View" program. So this

program was in 2008, but look, I

started commentating on television in

2003, and only 5 years later did I go to

ESSV, hired for the "Points

of View" program, which is the program that gave me

great visibility nationally and

internationally. So there I really started

doing commentaries that were much more widely

consumed; there were people who knew that "

Points of View" was on Sundays, and there were young people

who would run home just because

they wanted to see Venâncio. So, what I'm going to say is that

in 2008, I was making comments in

2009. I had a contract for a program

called "Special Elections," but at my

job, my

managers told me that I had

orders from Frelimo to stop

speaking on television for a

while. So I stopped for a bit. But

then,

in 2011, I first received

calls from people at my workplace

saying, "Look, there are municipal elections in 2013,

and we want you to

run." The party that

invited me was MDM, represented by the current

president, Lutero Simango. After speaking

with Davis, they said, "We want

you to take on the biggest challenge of

municipal elections, running for mayor of Maputo."

At the time, the election was still direct, not

now that it's broadcast live. So,

after much

deliberation, because I was still with the

Frelimo party at the time, imagine

my comments, which had already

created a lot of conflict in my family. There

were meetings almost every week because of

me. Now imagine going into

active politics and already being in conflict

with Frelimo... It was the

biggest scandal, but... well, many meetings... I

can't mention the names of several

senior members of Ferlim who were

sent to talk to me, so she

had... I always had coffee every

two days, coffee with this, coffee with that, older people,

get out of there, Ferlim, don't do that, do

n't do that, your family,

your father... my father was a senior manager, uh,

public, of one of the biggest

insurance companies in the country, yes, and he

retired there, so... and you know, nobody gets to that

position if they aren't nominated by the

party, right? So, well, easy... How did

you, TS, get involved in this... I don't know what... so,

well, but against everything and everyone, I

entered the battle, so I started in

politics with this civic path, and

then I entered politics, uh, after

some time, I went from RENÃO to RENÃO, I went from

MDM to RENÃO, no, from MDM to RENÃO,

where I am now. What made you leave

MDM? Oh, simple things, uh, I joined

MDM with a lot of... you left MDM

after Davis's death, no, no, it

wasn't before... It was before, it was before, it was

Before, he even made some comments

on television about my departure and such.

Okay, but why did I leave? I left

for a simple reason. I entered with a

lot of expectations, and even today...

One of the things I'll say is

why my approaches sometimes

generated a lot of comments.

I think

my backbone is that of a

political activist. More than a

politician, I consider myself a

political activist borrowed from politics. So,

even if you don't have a

party, you don't stop being an activist.

An activist isn't

attached to those things of

parties; they're

attached to principles, to values, and that's it.

So I think my

activist side is much stronger than

my political side. Hmm, so

when I joined MDM, I saw it as a

party where I could

express my activist side with some force.

Hmm, it was very

complicated. So there were several

serious issues in the country, remember those issues

I was raising here? I

think this is what parliamentary debate

should address: those major

national issues structuring the economy.

National policy on

diplomacy and foreign relations—things that

aren't discussed are taboo. So I

wanted to have this debate in Parliament, and I did. I

had several occasions where

I wrote and proposed serious debates, and I noticed

that within my own party, that's where

the obstacle was, preventing these issues from being

debated at the

parliamentary level. When I reached that point, and

at the time I was being

blocked from discussing serious things, one

of the issues I'm going to talk about

openly, even though I wanted it to be

discussed, was at the beginning, in 2016, at the

beginning of the debate on the

extractive industry. There was, let's say, a

transfer of shares, or a

sense of shares, of

Exon Mobil. So the Americans

came after the Italians; the

Italians were the first, before

Exon Mobil. There was a transfer

of Exon Mobil shares, and that was much

talked about in the country as the

first

event that proved Mozambique was going to

have large dividends from the

extractive industry. So it was said that...

Normally, when a company sells shares

to another, Mozambique taxes the... The

sale of these shares is what's

called capital gains, so these

capital gains were valued at 350

million dollars that the company was going to pocket,

and all the newspapers were reporting on it, and

everyone was like, "Now, it's

exactly like now, the El Dorado of

Mozambique started, every

public and private newspaper was talking about the 350 million

we were going to pocket." I wasn't

satisfied with that, so I looked for

people who were specialized in

extractive industries, we got the

law, we spent a couple of days working, and

we did the

calculations. We kept doing the

calculations, and curiously, we came to the

conclusion that we shouldn't have

pocketed 350 million dollars, but

should have pocketed 800 million

dollars. I mean, look, everyone was

happy, clapping, blowing

trumpets because we were going to receive 350

million dollars, but in reality,

we should have received 8800 million

dollars. And then, it was like

a lightbulb moment, you know, those old comic

strips, like

Zé Carioca? Well, that's a lightbulb moment from

Zé Carioca. I said, "Damn it, no! This is a

debate I have to bring to the public.

The country is being cheated. We think

we're winning, but the country is being

cheated." So I took 450 million,

cheated the country, I took it upon myself, I wrote, I

stayed there, I lost nights writing,

doing calculations, proving that the country

was being robbed and everything else, and I went to

my bench, which was supposed to be a

parliamentary debate. That was my biggest

frustration. Everything was done within my

own party so that it wouldn't be a

debate, so that it wouldn't be a debate. I

was very frustrated with that. I said, "We

are seeing that the country is being

robbed, the people are being cheated, and the

opposition is on the side, the opposition itself,

preventing my proposal from being

debated." So that was

the last straw for me. There were other issues, but

that was the last straw. I mean,

I said no, it can't be. And at

that time, I was already in talks

with the president. Hmm, so that's when

I said no. The old man had been

inviting me for a long time to go to the

Gorongosa mountains. Ah, but I asked, I talked to

him, but I never accepted. No, hey, that's

dangerous. "There was a lot of shooting up there,

but he insisted so much. By then he

was already there, he was already

hiding, he was still

hiding, there were still some shots at

the time, uh, but then I grabbed my [

something] and said, 'This time I know, yeah, do this, man.' I grabbed mine, went to the Gorongosa mountain range, went to see him, stayed there for a couple of days talking and stuff, and when I left I said, 'Baptizer, no way, damn it,' I

said, 'No.' So, look, I

decided, because of the

conversation, because of the principles that

old man had, allow the term, the

magnetic way in which he

transmitted values, what democracy is,

why he spent almost 40 years

hiding in the bush, he made me

understand, and I was amazed by that, it was

everything I wanted to do, it was

everything I was searching for,

even if I had to sacrifice

myself, but fighting for the people, fighting

for the underprivileged, it was something that, let's say,

moved me, and I saw that in him, I mean,

I was impacted by

that conversation, he said, 'Let me think about it,' I let him think,

and I came back. It was

September 2017 and..." I returned in April

2018 to give him the answer. Ah, okay, I

went up. The only answer I gave him was, "Yes,

I'm willing to take on this challenge." I

accept. And a month later, in May 2018, the

old man passed away. But I... I kept the word

I gave to Afonso Lakama: "He lives, he sees."

Onward! When I went down, I went to

Parliament and said, "Since I no longer

identify with my current party, I want to take

on a new challenge where I believe

I can fight for something I'm fighting for."

I was the first member of parliament in the history of

this country to resign mid-term

because I disagreed

with the principles. I resigned, I

left everything behind. People said, "You're

crazy, you're going to lose everything." I mean,

apparently, a member of parliament has a series

of privileges, so they lose everything,

but apparently not, right? It's not

apparently...

you... yes, yes, you have some, you have some,

not so big, but you have them, depending on

the level, yes, yes, yes, depending on the

level. Let's see, it's not... no, if

we consider it on average...

250 MPs in there, yes, with the

average salaries that exist

in this country, yes, it's a good salary, good perks, there are

other perks besides the salary, right? Yes, yes, for

example, those who are part of the bank's management,

like me who was part of

management B, yes, you have fuel, you have an

official car, you have rent,

employees, you have communications, you have, you have.

Yes, regarding that, I'll say yes, the

MP has them. I personally disagree,

man, I think you shouldn't. You don't

deserve any of that. The salary is already good and enough,

or else give yourself that salary

but work

more. The big problem is that

nothing is produced, that's the mistake.

MP T has all those perks

above other people. For example,

you have a PhD professor, a

full professor at the university, they just

do their undergraduate degree, let's say

more or less, they study for 10 years,

do a master's degree, plus 2 years for a post-

doctorate, plus 2 years, so the

person spends 20, 25 years studying from

books until they become a

full professor. P goes to teach at a

public university, how much do they receive?

50,000 metals and no benefits, which is

half the deputy's salary. You understand,

right? So, really, either the

deputy is earning well or

should improve. But you know what?

These conceptions are what

deceive us, yes, because everyone ends up

thinking that the best thing worth doing

is being a politician, being a politician, you know? So,

man, if you get a place there, it's

set for

life. I'm not mistaken, they were discussing, maybe, so

that you would have

lifetime perks. Of course, of course, of course, it's not like that.

Listen, one

thing: if all these perks were

given, but with terms of reference,

concrete goals to be achieved in defense

of the people, I think there wouldn't be any problem. I

think there wouldn't be any problem.

The problem is that there are no goals. A

deputy—I know deputies who have been in

Parliament for six terms, 30 years—has

never opened their mouth a single day in

defense of the people. So that... That's

really scandalous. In this case,

for example, it's logical, that's scandalous.

I mean, we're paying the

individual all this, and this individual has

never come to the defense of... His people, not even a

single one, not even to say

a word for a minute, to rebel

against the situation the people are going

through, or in Cabo Delgado, the kidnappings,

abductions, murders, the cost of living, anything, a

minute to speak, never

spoke, never, never showed their face. He's been in six

mandates, 30 years. Ah, that's a scandal,

that's not a scandal, that's shameful, that's filthy, that's

disgusting, yes, I

agree in that aspect, I agree, but if they

produced, if they demanded accounts from them,

that they should give them, that's one

example, one of the things I defend.

I am elected, for example, to the

electoral district of the city of Maputo,

I have to go to the

market, go tell the lady at the market what

I am doing in Parliament, what

I say in favor of, in defense of, what

I say in defense of, so many

children are being kidnapped now

in the suburban neighborhoods, you know, there is a lot of

kidnapping of children, of women, there is

organ trafficking, trafficking of women

for sexual exploitation, all these things

need the voice of the deputy. I

cannot watch this and remain silent.

I have to go and tell the

lady whose daughter was kidnapped, who was

going to school and never came

home, she needs my voice. I have to

speak up because I have the

privilege of having a platform, of having

a microphone, of my voice being heard. I

have authority, I have authority, so

I use that voice to do what? You don't

use that voice, so I don't use that voice. I

'm in my neighborhood, in my neighborhood, and there's

a street there, and on that street, for example,

someone came and built a house in the

middle of the street, and then all the young people, everyone,

has to be harmed, they have to work

around it. You don't say anything,

and you live in the same neighborhood, and you see

this. You're in a neighborhood, there's a

soccer field there for the kids, someone suddenly

came and built a company, hum, there's no

soccer anymore, there's nothing. There was an area

that was a park for young people to

hang out, to have picnics, it was

swallowed up. You live in the neighborhood, you're silent. Are you a member of

parliament? No, and those should all be, but they should

all be imprisoned or hanged.

That's disgusting, that's dirty, and that's what

's really condemnable. But if it's a member of

parliament... What a fight, battle! He fights

for his people, gives his body, takes the bullets, and if

there are any... Ah man, I don't know, if there

are, he should stand up, speak up, right?

And show it, but my perception, and I

believe that of many in the public, man, is that it's

not good, no, it's not good, no,

I'll even give you

just one piece of data here to understand how useless the

Assembly is. I'm even talking about

looking at the cameras, how useless the

Assembly of the Republic has been

since the multi-party Assembly of the Republic

was instituted in 1994

until

today. The Assembly of the Republic has

three functions: one is representation.

That is, representing the people,

as all the people can be there. All

250 are there to represent the people. Representation,

that's what they do very well, all 250 are

present. The second is oversight of the

government's actions.

Clearly, that's all we're

talking about here, which isn't being done, but we already

know that. And the third is

legislative action. That is, I look at the

problems that the people have and make

proposals for laws to protect their

rights. Regarding the people in this

legislative role, for example, I want to

talk to you about the

seriousness of the legislative projects, the

legislative proposals that are decided

by Parliament. Only

2% are initiated by the

Assembly of the Republic itself;

98% are sold by the government to the Assembly.

Therefore, the Assembly of the Republic is

useless, it's useless. The government can function

without the President of the Assembly of the Republic

because if the government is there to

approve things, nothing is useless in that aspect; it's

totally useless. In what aspect is it useful?

So, in what aspect is it useful? It's useful to

fatten 250 people, that's all. That

's the only usefulness. I mean,

today I feel like this, a

banal thought, yes, man. You who are

the minority, other parties will never be

able to do anything, man. In the current

situation, we couldn't do anything in the current situation. In

all situations, there was a mandate,

perhaps, that had some kind of purpose, there was that...

Okay, so how did that go, the

electoral union, when Assembly 99, I think we

reached almost 111, 112 deputies.

Maybe, but always in all the

times we've had in this country,

Parliament has always had

greater representation from a single

party, but I'll say one thing,

for me the issue isn't a number, it's

what the number is. You can have S, you can

come with the best project there,

you can have C, and for example, let's

suppose now 250 deputies, even if the

opposition had

120, now we are ARN, we have 60. Imagine

if it had double, it's going down more and

more, so imagine we had double,

120 or 125, the problem for me isn't that,

the problem is having people

available to do the real fight

in favor of the people. I'll give you a

very simple example, you see in Portugal there's

a minority party, it

seems that now it already has three or

four deputies, in the previous term it was

one individual, one or two, look, but the

noise that guy made alone,

that guy, every time he opened his mouth... The

guy shook the entire structure of the country,

one guy

alone. So the problem isn't the

numbers, it's your availability. To

what extent

can two individuals shake a country in the fight for the people? Look, but

FMA Gandi... hum, he achieved the independence of

a country alone, without firing a

shot, without strangling anyone,

without beheading anyone. A

committed individual, truly

committed to the soul, can

shake an entire nation. Now the

problem is that you have 120 guys, 125, you

have 250 guys who have

absolutely no commitment to defending the people.

There, my brother, the numbers won't count

for anything. Now, if you have

committed guys, then yes, how do you

justify this at a time when the cost of

living is higher than in the last

20 years? There's a proposal to reduce

or remove VAT from essential products

like oil, soap,

mackerel, and there are deputies who reject the

proposal to remove VAT from the

most basic products of a miserable people, a

people who are in

misery, who live on mackerel. When you

manage to do that, you refuse to remove the

VAT. What kind of... These deputies are

completely useless. You can't

expect much from these people. Look, I'll

give you an example from Italy. I

liked this example. I was talking to someone

once, back when the

Italian Communist Party still existed (now it's

gone), there were three guys in

Parliament. They wanted a law

passed, and Italy has always been a coalition—I

mean, in Italy, the government is always

formed by at least a coalition of

three or four parties because

nobody ever gets 50%,

Italian politics is so divided.

So there was a party, Benit, the

Italian Communist Party, that wanted

a law passed in defense of

workers, and they felt that this

was very important. You know what they

did? They knew they were

going to lose votes inside the chamber. They arrived in the morning,

went to the main door of Parliament,

put chains

on their hands and bodies, and

said, "If you want to open the door, let's cut

ourselves in half."

Parliament was closed for two weeks;

the men were starving there, they were only

given water to drink, they relieved themselves

there at that door, saying, "

We're not leaving here unless the

law in defense of workers is approved." Three

individuals against an assembly of 400

deputies, and the law was approved. Three

guys, three, three. They managed to do that.

So, numbers, no, no, no, that's not the basis. This

ARN (Assembly of God) can't triple the number

of deputies tomorrow. But if there's no

commitment to the people, if there's no

willingness to do what

Lakama (the governor) did for almost 40 years, it will be

absolutely worthless to have more

deputies than there are today. So that's not

the issue. So I'll say one

thing:

privileges, if they are privileges, I'll

give you an example. Two weeks ago I

received a... I have a box of... a...

a WhatsApp number

called VM7 complaints, so everyone who

has problems with injustices sends a

message to that number, explains... I don't

know what... So I was

receiving complaints from a population in Mato Grosso,

a locality called Mudada in Bela

Vista, which is the population that was in the

area where the Gong cement factory is now located.

That population

was removed from that

area under various promises of having a

school, a police station, a hospital, a

road, water, electricity,

houses, a series of things that in 17 For years,

none of this was ever accomplished. The population

sent messages to my number

asking for

help. I had to take matters into

my own hands, get a driver, get a cameraman. I had to film because if I said TVM wouldn't accompany me, they wouldn't come with me, and if CSV wouldn't come with me either, all the television stations wouldn't come with me. So I had to do my own filming. I had to

get a cameraman, I had to get

a driver, I had to take the car with

my own fuel, and I went

to the community and left the community to

visit the old houses where they were

removed. It was a job. I started at 7 and

only left at 10 pm. Hmm, this has costs. You have to

have fuel, you have to have

food, you have to pay for the Camaro,

then you have to edit the video, you have to

do all sorts of things. If the deputy's money

is for this kind of

work, is it worth giving the money to the

deputy to do this? That's why I say it's

necessary to be accountable. Okay,

we give the perks, then they come and say, "

Look, there's a problem with the

Matc community, they were wronged in this." I was

there, I did the survey, I

fought for the people, I did this, I helped to

do this. I wrote a letter, I fought, I had meetings with

the minister, I went to the minister about this,

I fought for this, I don't know what, I did this, I

spent so much, so the money I

'm receiving I'm putting into

this, I'm telling you honestly, if you, if you

manage to do this, I'm telling you,

people will never complain about the

perks you have, but if you don't do

this, you're absolutely right, you're

receiving the money purely and simply

to use it with your family. I'm with you, you do

n't fight for us, you don't apply

anything you earn in our favor, so

you're a parasite, so there's

parasitism in parliamentary activity.

Today I agree, there's a profound

uselessness of Parliament, today I

fully agree. It's an institution

that, if we didn't, the

country would stop, yes, I agree

with you, in the same way that my way,

simply because we have a majority,

not only that, but that's not just

Parliament, even the government, the way

the government is done, vice-ministers for

example, what do we need vice-ministers to

do? Ah, the vice-ministers, the cost

and the budgetary burden with the

vice-ministers, now here. I

also take this opportunity to look a little at the cameras in

my perspective, in my perspective, the day

the people want to bet on me to

be president of the republic, I can

now advance a point of my Manifesto. The

first thing I want to do in the

government reform is to

sweep away all the vice-ministers. We don't need

vice-ministers; they are useless, they only

waste money. If we were to

calculate

the weight of a vice-minister's budget

for the state, if we were to add up all the

vice-ministers we have, in one year

we could build a quality primary school

with teachers and

laboratories. So I prefer to sweep away

all the vice-ministers. Over at least 5 years,

more than one primary school, we

could

build a secondary school. So I

prefer to build five

secondary schools from scratch with laboratories in 5 years: one

in Maputo, one in Beira, another in Ampulha,

for example. We could build another one of these

high-level secondary schools. Sweep away

the ministers, the vice-ministers, all of them.

Another thing, also the secretaries of

state, who are another burden, another

useless thing, sweep them all away. The

state secretaries are useless, we don't need them, they're

a budgetary burden, they're taking

money from public spending that

has absolutely no value. And then there are

these institutes, there are so many institutes out

there – this institute, this

tourism institute, this institute of I don't know what – they don't

do research, they don't have data, they don't have

databases, they don't promote anything.

All these institutes should be converted

into departments within the

Ministries. There's no need for these

useless institutes that are out there, eliminate them

all and put them as

simple departments within the Ministries.

This would also be a way to

reduce the excess burden of resources

that are being used for useless things, they are

truly useless parasites of the

state and of the people's public spending.

Something's a noise there, see what

that noise is, maybe it's

the armored vehicles, because what

usually happens now has also become fashionable,

as soon as they know that Vernan is

moving to a place, when

they suspect something, or I don't know if they

think I'm going to start a

rebellion, suddenly I'm surrounded by

armored vehicles, so it has been very common,

very protected, you know. Maybe not, but it's

true, look, believe me. The last time

I went to the Attorney General's office

to file a

complaint—a criminal complaint—against the

Commander-in-Chief of the

police, there were four

armored vehicles, two armored cars, one of the armored cars

had the canine unit; it was all

full of canine units. And then there were

several agents from the SIS, from the CERNIC, and from another

unit. I think it was all to

intimidate, so not everyone was there.

So that day I considered it a great

privilege because, for example, the

Presidency of the Republic, if you go to

the Presidency of the Republic, only has

two armored cars. I had four

armored cars. So I mean, I had the

privilege of having greater protection than

the President of the Republic. Even

President Filipe Jacinto Novo, I ask you

not to be jealous of me, you might

think, "But wow, they never protected me as well as they

protected Venâncio," but that's what

has been happening, Venâncio Melan, right?

I see you're a guy who's very

used to the cameras, you dominate this place, you

know? When I go to look at

all the speeches, it's interesting, it's

interesting. My dear friend, it's good to be

here. I was

surprised by something today, man, to learn that it

never crossed my mind that you had already been in

Freiburg's party.

Yes, yes, you've already been in about three

major parties, and now you're in Naren, and

from what I see, things aren't going

very well for you. Yes, yes, you

made a post a while ago saying that

they put you back there, you're in the last

row. This is a way that I don't even know

how I can say, you've already been

attacked from within. Yes, yes, it's not

something that the opposition can

relax about anymore, seeing them there playing

with you and all that. John has to be there having fun with you.

Look,

and no, wait, let me have... excuse me, excuse me,

you want to understand, but water, more water here,

please,

and the turbines are heating up, no,

as my wife says, excuse me, excuse me, just a

joke,

just my wife. My wife, sometimes when

we're like this in the early morning, we're

talking, I don't know, this cop, I mean, I say, "Honey,

excuse me, I had an idea,

let me write, you can cross over, man,

this is all ours, what's the problem?"

I say, "Honey, I had an idea." Okay,

let me just take a note, and it's

not worth grabbing a pen or

notepad because you start a

line, the ignition just touches the turbines, and

you'll be stuck like that. You're

forbidden, I'll take note of

what it is. Write it down then, she writes it down, says it

's all

OK, continue tomorrow because I don't want

your turbines to stop in the middle of the night.

Get out of there,

the question that's stuck here, that

I want to know from you, my friend, your plans

for the future, because, my friend, you're a man of

principles, I've already understood this,

you have values, and, as you said,

your backbone is more with this

situation. What is your level of

contentment or discontentment, my friend?

Because from what I understand from the

stories we've already talked about, the reasons that

led you to leave one party, that

led you to leave another party, I think they're

not very far from your

current situation, yes, yes, yes, how do you

want to reveal it? How do you want to explain to us a

little bit? How are you seeing it? I

feel that you are being devalued

within your party, you are being

marginalized, even, hum, maybe because of the

stances that you

Hey man, explain to me how this is going, yeah,

look,

ah, that's a good

question, it's a good question, and

uh, but I can't say I'm

feeling

unhappy. Ah, but you also have to be

honest, I mean, it's not worth

trying to hide the sun

with a sieve, hiding the sun with a sieve

is an uncomfortable situation, it's a

huge challenge that could happen in my

life, and they interrupted me again,

I say this because, okay,

October, November, December, January,

February, 5 months have passed since the

elections, okay, and even 5 months ago, you

were a guy who, within the party,

was being supported from all sides, you were the

head of the list, you were all this, and

then, no, now, I'll even take this opportunity to

confess something, as head of the list

in the party, uh, the story wasn't as

simple as it seems

because I really felt that there's always

that dispute when it comes to

selecting the heads of the lists, there's always a

dispute, everyone wants to run,

everyone thinks they're in a position, they're this and that,

I even said I was

head of the list in 2018 but I was removed, I didn't even...

They allowed people to compete if they

felt they were

better equipped to do the job.

When the time came to

submit applications—and I'm taking this opportunity

to say this firsthand—when it

came time to submit

applications to be the head of the list, I did

n't

submit any. I didn't submit the

paperwork to be the head of the list

because I wanted to give space to those I

felt were better

positioned to represent RNAM in the

city of Maputo.

Unfortunately, on the day

the election of the head of the list was supposed to take place,

I was

urgently called to the conference. I felt I hadn't

submitted my

candidacy; they forced me to go. I went, and the

political delegate of the

city of Maputo himself said—this is recorded—"

Venâncio didn't

officially submit his candidacy; he's not a

candidate for head of the list." But due to

pressure from RNAM members and

pressure from the citizens of

Maputo, we were forced—you see, it wasn't our

original wish—we were forced to

put him on the list of candidates for

head of the list. And at that moment,

when he was put on the list, all

the other competitors withdrew; they

had no chance, so I didn't go. I

was elected unanimously; there was no

election, and there was no competition on

my part. That needs to be clear.

Some people also like to

distort things, and we have

records, we have audiovisual documents of this; it

's recorded. I didn't compete to

be the head of the list, thank goodness. I'll

take this opportunity to share something

with you:

all these times I switched

from one party to another, I was a candidate for this. I

never competed, I never

asked. When I was a member of

Verimo's party, I didn't go knocking on

Ferlim's party's door to become a member; I was

urged to become a member by my family.

Hmm, that's normal. When I switched to the MDM,

I didn't go knocking on the door of the MDM;

a delegation of 10 people came to my workplace, where

I work in the financial system,

to convince

me to run for the MDM. The first time

I entered active politics was

when I switched from the MDM to

Renamo. I was courted by the president

of Cama. It's been more than two years since I should have

switched to Renamo, and I didn't. They

ordered me to. A team, an emissary whose

name I don't want to mention, but I can

talk about him, was

directly mandated by the president of the CNE,

Fernando Maando, who is the vice-president

of the CNE, to come to the Serra da Gorongosa. The goal

that this gentleman had was to get

Venâncio to the Serra da Gorongosa, and the

president of the CNE said, "I don't want to hear any

negative answers, I want that

kid here in the Serra da Gorongosa."

Mazanga told me, "Look, don't tell me

no, because I have a price on my head. If

I can't get you there, then I'm the one who's in trouble." So

I was invited, ordered to go

to the Serra da Gorongosa, invited. I didn't

go knocking on the door. There was a member of the

CNE once who made a comment on

television, "Ah, Venâncio, when Venâncio came

knocking on the door." And there are some who go around

saying, "Ah, Venâncio was welcomed into the

CNE." No, I wasn't welcomed, I was

invited at the highest level. The president

of the CNE invited me, urged me, I could even

say he almost captured me. Of course, I wasn't captured.

That's a joke. I was

urged to go to the CNE, invited to go to the

CNE. At the highest level, when the

president of Mor

passed away, I returned to work. Now, I

'm saying, a job... I returned to my

work sector in

2019. They were knocking on my office door again,

telling me to run in

the 2019 General Elections to return to

Parliament. At no point did I

knock on anyone's door, at

no point did I beg to

be on a list. I was always

invited, always invited at the

highest level. But okay, I don't want to downplay it

with this, I just want to say one thing: I

also invited him to be

here, he was invited. So, regarding

that, no, I want to make it very clear.

For example, now I was dismissed from what? I was

dismissed as E.H.,

as a personal advisor to President

Arenal. They ordered me to cease my functions in

Parliament as rapporteur of the parliamentary group, and

people look at this as if it were a

tragedy, like, "Oh, I lowered my salary." Yes, it's

true, there's a newspaper that says so. Well,

H., a bit of an exaggeration, but I lost a lot, a lot.

When you're in

charge of the parliamentary group, there are reprisals.

Yes, yes, yes, I lost, I lost. "It lowered my H a

while ago, all I saw was this, now,

SF advisor, mom, all that bombshell stuff, and everything

seemed like the best thing that had

happened. I lost a lot, no

doubt about it. This makes a difference in my

family, right? It's not 113,000 as it says there,

but it's more or less almost 80,000 mcis, right? It's

taken from my salary, uh, I lost

fuel, I even lost ADC, I was

entitled to ADC, I mean, I don't have ADC, I don't

have a driver, I was entitled to

an office, I had an office, yes, yes, I

don't have an office anymore,

so I carry my briefcase, I have to

sit in the garden, I have to sit on a

bench, I have to sit anywhere,

but believe me, believe me, Ismail, there's no

way they're trying to make you

leave the party of your own free will. Hmm,

well, if that's the attempt, I'll leave

if I have to leave. When I feel the time has

come to leave, not because of

this kind of pressure, because I'll

tell you one thing, Ismail, I am

totally firm in my convictions and

I haven't changed one millimeter of what I

believe, what I defend because of this, it has

n't changed absolutely." Nothing, and I

continue to do my work. My

social work, I'm doing it now, especially

since I have more time recently.

I think you saw a report I

did about the rapists and kidnappings, I did

a report on the defense of the population

that was wronged by the

cement factory in Gongo,

oh, several, and there are still several reports

to do. There are many requests from the

population who come to make complaints about

very serious issues that I have to

talk about. Therefore, my

political activity, my civic activity, is not

affected because of that. I continue to

do the work of serving... The population

continues to do the work of serving the

people, so absolutely

nothing changes for me in terms of politics,

social issues, or motivation. And

just look at a question a friend of

mine who is in Ireland asked: "What do your family

say to your children?" "You can't imagine, you can't imagine!

More than ever, I

now make plans with my family."

Malta, when they're at home, guides me. "Hey,

but look, now you have to deal with this

issue, you have to commit yourself." No, I don't

have any problems with that, thank

God, thank God. God touched my

family in such a way that today I have

support, I have activists within

my home for my activities. I

mean, I don't have any problems with that,

and they accepted all kinds of

sacrifices, right? Now, my

children have to be watched, now, right? We

even had friends who

hired an armed security company

to protect my family.

I said it's all right, I accept that, but

we're living like this, we kind of seem like

prisoners because all our movements

are very limited. We have

very specific hours to be at home, we can't

go out at night, we have to

control ourselves. Kids have to go through all sorts of

things, but it's okay, those are issues you're going through,

but the only thing that gives me

encouragement is that there are values ​​to

continue defending the most

disadvantaged, fighting justly for

that population that has no voice but

needs someone to have a voice for them.

So, since this hasn't died yet, Ismael,

I feel

totally comforted, I feel at

ease, all my spirit, all

my energy, all my encouragement to

continue political activity isn't

altered. Oh, Venâncio, you won't be on the

list to vote for Parliament, how

are you doing this? They're not going to put you on the

list to vote for Parliament. Look, have

I ever done anything civic or

political? Because there was Parliament as a

line, not the parties. When I entered

politics and they first sought me out to

enter

politics, it was because of my

civic activity. They saw the work I did, the

humanitarian work, the comments

I made on television, the civic work

I did, the struggles I did for the

people, that's what led the politicians to... "

Looking for politics... So it's not

Parliament that motivates me, it's not

perks that motivate me. Not being

in the next Parliament is no problem, and I'll

even make a

challenge now: if I'm not in Parliament,

do the math between the work I'll

do outside of Parliament and all the work done in

Parliament combined, so you can see what

really motivates me.

Being in Parliament or not being in

Parliament doesn't motivate me. That's why, even being in Parliament, I

have problems with my

colleagues because some say the activity

you're developing is outside the

party's standards. I'll give you a

very simple example, just so you

understand this: I had problems. I was

judged within the party, I was put on a

table like a defendant. One time I

traveled, I think I was at a

church activity, we had a retreat,

so I came back and saw a proposal that we

should decide the next day in

Parliament, which was the election of the members of

the so-called central commission of

public ethics. Therefore, we are talking about

ethics in Mozambique. Whoever generates ethics

has to be an ethical man, has to be

a man of principles, has to be a man

of

morality. So we saw the people

proposed for the public ethics commission.

I

arrived knowing how my party..." I had

agreed with the Frelimo party that

those people should go through, so it was

just to go to Parliament, why

formalize it? Whom I see proposed

by the Frelimo party? An individual

named Gustavo Mavi, whom many people

know. Gustavo Mavi was the

director of

AIM, the Mozambique Information Agency, for 14 years.

I knew he didn't leave there on good terms. I

said, "This individual doesn't have the posture

to be a member of the Central Commission of

Public Ethics." I mean, we're putting

people who are models, references of

ethics, on a Central Commission of Public Ethics—a criminal with a criminal record? How is that

possible? The party had agreed with

Frelimo. I disagreed with that. I said, "I'm not

going to vote in favor of this. This is

totally against my principles." I

said, "And I'm going to prove that this

individual has a criminal record." I

knew of a sentence in which he was

convicted by the Administrative Court

for embezzlement of public money. I

went to the Administrative Court's website, and

curiously, that ruling had been

withdrawn, supposedly to protect the

criminal, so that he could

enter the Central Commission of

Public Ethics. Well, but I'm a guy with 100

contacts... 100

alternatives, I called several

newspaper editors, I walked around that early

morning until I found a

grimy document that had even been bitten by

rats in one part. I found the

sentence that was read against the individual. I did nothing

else. I got home, sat down,

read the sentence, and made a summary of the

most serious parts of the sentence. The

next day, when we sat in Parliament, we were going to

elect the members of the central commission of

public ethics. It's by consensus, I was

saying, the president of Parliament,

our president, Mrs.

Esperança Bias. Ah, so she says it's by

consensus. I said, "No, I don't have a

word." Then everyone looked at me, "

Oh my god, but if there's a consensus, what does

this guy mean?" Look, I started

blasting this, "There isn't a single

registered individual among those being

elected." "But how so?" I made a

summary of the sentence. You know, everyone

was scandalized, as if they

preferred to forget. Yes, I said, "I... you

know, that was... people

were scandalized, but in the end,

what happened with... with... even I

believe that the members of the

Frelimo party... Hum, who didn't have that..."

Many of them were clapping

with their feet because

they couldn't clap with their hands, but surely they

were clapping with their feet for

Venâncio. But in the end, what

happened? The session was

interrupted. Was the man elected or not? The

man was elected, but wait, the session

was interrupted. A 15-minute

break was requested because nobody expected me to

come. The consensus was... well, let it be...

because of Venâncio.

So we left. Wow, a lot of noise, and the topic...

That day nothing was decided, it was

postponed.

Then I was called to the party to be

judged like a defendant. You don't know that there's

an agreement between us and the other bench

that was for those names to pass because

we also have names there. No matter what

agreement exists, I will not

allow it. That will represent

public ethics, a

catastrophic type of agreement. I don't enter into it.

But this discipline... I didn't

come to Parliament, I didn't become a Deputy

to be involved in agreements to defend

criminals, that's not my mission.

I will never do such a thing, I

will not accept that. It's called integrity.

So you know what... They wanted to, but now look, look,

just one thing, Ismail, just

one thing, Ismail, what they tried to do

to me, huh? And... If you want me to get angry,

take me to court

then. The next day, a consensus arrived,

saying to the firm that everything is not alright, don't pay

attention to that, that kid is crazy,

that kid isn't well, I don't know how many,

and... we're going to vote, I don't know how many... you know what they

wanted to do, huh? They

wanted to get me, I myself went to

report that that individual is a

registered criminal so I would read the declaration

of vote in favor of the election. I said, "We'll

wash you already," I said, "No, find another

imbecile to do it." I'm not an

imbecile. Not only did I not accept that,

but on the day of the vote I preferred to

withdraw. I wasn't present, and I

was also criticized for not being

present, I should have voted. No, I'm not

going to ally myself with that kind of thing. So,

just to show you what... hey man,

wait, you've already shown me a lot,

you've already shown me a lot here

with your speeches and such, and I even

feel like... may God give you more. Strength,

bro, to fight, to be there, to

face all these battles, bro.

I feel happy knowing that I have an

upright man who fights for his values ​​and

principles in that house of the people, my man, who

is there, and against all odds, you're

trying to break through, to do things there, and bro, that there are

more than 250, if we can get at

least another 20, that way I think we

might have a chance, bro. Let's

try, how long have we been

talking, Elves 1? Oh bro, 150, 150,

damn, incel, this is no joke, this

is interesting, bro. I want to know one

thing, your plans with this whole situation, are you

thinking of having your own party?

Oh, would you like to? Oh, look, Eh, Esmail, it's like this,

I don't, I wrote once on my

page that it doesn't matter if I

win or lose the fight I'm

waging in RNAM because some people think

that if I lose this battle it's my

political end, my political death. I've

seen those predictions, those

idiotic prophecies that are going around, oh,

his political death is the political end of Vância,

no, but it's a theory. "Van is a theory, right?

It's that people... people

talk, they don't know who they're

talking about, so let's go, for example, I don't have any

problems and I'm not worried

about it. I might lose, right? Now, I

submitted two precautionary measures, yes,

in court. I might lose,

no problem for me. What matters is not whether

I win or lose, what matters

to me is that I will have

contributed to the internal democratic struggle,

which is long overdue.

This is very important to achieve, so

victory, or not. There's

Lakama. Someone might say that Lakama

died if he was never President.

My question is, Ismail, didn't he leave a

very large legacy? He left a

very large legacy. Eduardo Maan died without

ever having governed Mozambique. Didn't

he leave a legacy? Every day,

every February, there's a commemoration of

national heroes. It's not

because Eduardo Maan doesn't have a place in the

crypt, he's not in the annals of history, I don't

know, he doesn't have a statue, he doesn't. I

mean, the fact that he didn't govern, are you going to

say that he was practically a

lost cause, that he was, let's say, a case..."

Failed? Of course not. The big

question here, which you pose to me, is what

we come back to. What is your purpose

in life? What did you come here to do?

What is the mission that God gave you? For

example, you're talking, the way you

talk, I tell you one thing: it's not my

merit. There are things that sometimes I say,

sometimes I remember, sometimes I see in my

head, and I myself am amazed at how

this

logical thought suddenly came to me. Why? That means

that when God gives you a purpose, He

empowers you with the skills to

fulfill your purpose. Therefore, it

's not so much my merit. So what

I'm doing is what God has

provided me to do: the fight, the courage,

the ability to envision what

sometimes people don't envision. It's

precisely for the purpose of

democratizing the

religion.

Then you think it will be a waste of time? No, it isn't. It's not

because of a

simple reason: whether I win or lose. The truth is,

things will never be the

same again. It's the first time, for example, that

I, in Mamic, a senior member, have taken his

own... Taking a party to court has never

happened before, it's the first time, but I'll

say one

thing: this has never happened before because there are

people criticizing me who say

you're taking an internal case

to public courts. They don't

understand one thing: many people, without

realizing it, are suffering from

a trauma themselves. But without realizing it,

we're talking about an example,

that young man from TV Sucesso who

took the electoral bodies to court

because he was

assaulted by his own colleagues in the party,

convincing him that he's

fighting for glory because "I'm strong,

don't do that, you'll suffer," his own

classmates. And that young man is

fighting a fight that the class itself will

benefit from tomorrow because, from this

example, there will be much more care

for the rights of the press itself, there will be more and

more respect for freedom

of the press, and people don't even understand

that. So that's what's happening. They

say you can't take this fight

from the party outside the party, why?

Because this is the centralizing communist method

that characterizes the

party discipline that

we all sometimes repeat in our

parties. There's a lot of talk about

party discipline, but people don't realize, for example, that

Arnal says it's a center-

right party. MDM also says it's a

center-right party, but the ideology they

often express is that of the

left, of Frelimo. So this

democratic centralism is called

democratic centralism. This is communist.

There are people in Renamo who express

democratic centralism without

realizing they are doing

so. So when they talk a lot about

party discipline, they say, "This is a

communist principle," or "This is a

left-wing principle." Center and right-wing parties

are guided by the

principles of the democratic rule of law

and prioritize freedom of the

press and freedom of expression above all else, above all else,

above these

things of party discipline.

Regardless of anything, this is not a

principle of party discipline. This is strange.

They are talking about

party discipline. This is communist. What I

have to do is... the Constitution of the

Republic

allows me to resort to

any means to defend

my rights. If I want to defend

my rights by resorting to

internal party institutions, I can do so, but if

I find that these

internal party institutions are not trustworthy... The

right to go to public institutions

is as natural as this, all

right, that's what's in theory, but

when you do it in practice it's another

matter. There are things that are only supposed to

remain in theory, but that's exactly

the disease that Adalberto instilled in us, that we

believe that what comes in the law is

theoretical, but in practice it's not like that. Be careful,

but how do

nations grow? Today I'm going to give a

very simple example,

and I'm going to talk about an

African country that speaks Portuguese,

Angola. The UNITA congress took place

where Alberto Costa Júnior was elected. The

case went to court, the UNITA congress was annulled, and

a new election had to be held. This

is Angola, we're not talking about

developed countries, the United States, it's Angola, a

country that speaks Portuguese. This happened,

our brother, our brother, members of UNITA

said there were no irregularities and

took the case to court, but

some of those who took the case to court are

deputies, they are exercising functions within

the party normally. Adalberto even

invited some of them to be

part of the party leadership. That's what

we want today. I took the case to the

court to normalize things because there are

serious irregularities.

Serious damage is being done within the party

to normalize and stop this gravity

of things that are happening. This should

be normal, what shouldn't

be. For example, for me to take up

arms and gather a group of young people, go to the

president's house,

throw stones, break windows, and say that

we are

demanding this for the president. That's what's unacceptable.

But using democratic institutions to

fight for rights should be

normal, but the problem is that

Frelimo has

traumatized this youth, this

Mozambican youth, so much that

Mozambicans end up, without realizing it,

reproducing precisely the vices and

feminist diseases in our daily actions.

There's a principle in psychology called

Stockholm syndrome.

Stockholm syndrome is when you're

in love with

your kidnapper, your

oppressor. You reach a point where you

gain sympathy or empathy for him

because you've conformed or

adapted to the situation of oppression. So that's what

's happening. There's a

Stockholm syndrome within the party itself. There's a

Stockholm syndrome in Mozambicans

in relation to... I affirm that, given the level of oppression

that I affirm has placed upon the people, the people

end up reproducing the

deficient principles of the very same regime in their

daily lives as if they were normal. That is why

Venâncio cannot do this. Venâncio is

dangerous. Venâncio will kill you. Venâncio, be careful. Venâncio, you

don't play around with that. I mean all this.

You hear it inside and outside of ARN.

We have a sick society, a

society traumatized by

felinist comism. This society needs

healing, and how do you cure it? The cure is

done through political struggle, there is no other way. And there has to

be someone who takes on this

struggle and starts going to battle and who

accepts putting their body on the line for this

struggle to begin. But I am sure, Ismail,

that in 5 years, in 10 years, what

I am doing today will serve as a

great legacy. I hope that in 5 or 10

years, the members of Renamo, the members of

MDM, Mozambicans, will

naturally assume the exercise of citizenship.

This is the exercise of citizenship. That would be

our perfect society, that would be the

perfect country. It would be great,

Venâncio, if that happened. We don't

have to see this perhaps as a

Utopia, you understand? We have to see

it as something tangible, naturally

tangible, and I think we're on that

path. There's an expression

that I... there's a debate that I really like

to have, where you were saying that, "

Theory is practice, but in practice, theory

is something else." People don't

realize one thing: there can never,

absolutely never, be a

practice without a theory. Theory is the

preceding basis of practice. You can never

build a house without first designing the house

in your mind and using the principles of

civil engineering, physics, chemistry, and

statics before placing the first

block. When you place the block, it's because you've

already idealized, you've already designed, you've already

calculated, and then you build the house. So there is

no practice that is not

supported by a theory. So this

idea of ​​placing an antagonism

between theory and practice is really

a useless exercise, and

even a contradictory exercise, because the

very statement we're saying is, what is

that guy... There are 10 minutes left, but

Dea, let me finish this

somewhat philosophical part that I really enjoy. I'm the very one who

says, "Ah, in practice it

's different, that only theory is

a

theory," because when someone thinks about it and

says no, practice is

different from theory, it's a theory. What's

practical about that? It's just words.

Because what is theoretical? It's the

organization of a thought based on

words, that's theory. So when

someone says, "Ah, no, that doesn't work

in practice, that only works in

theory," that's also a theory. So, the

negation of theory is a manifestation of

a theory, but without awareness. And

gentlemen, study the vocabulary to

learn, man, it's not that easy.

I think we've already been through a lot, it was hard to

listen to you to understand your

ideals, your points of view, and so on.

I hope this situation within your

party is overcome quickly, my friend, that you

deserve what is rightfully yours, that you

continue to do

your job, that you continue to make a

difference in the lives of Mozambicans. I

believe you, believe me, you impact, you cause,

and the people recognize themselves a lot in your

statements. Well, it's no wonder you

managed to fill that crowd of

people. I wish you lots of strength

on your path, may God illuminate you, may you

achieve success, and may we,

as an audience, as a people, live

better through you. Okay, may good prevail over

all of this. There's

a saying that goes, in the end everything

will be alright. Amen. If it hasn't turned out alright yet, it's

because it's not the end. You understand,

very good, yeah. So, whatever

your decisions are, whatever

path you choose to take from now on,

go with faith, go with faith, and we'll be here, we'll be here. We

want a big difference, we want

the country to change, we want the country to be

better, we want to be

approached by good citizens, so that

our concerns become the concerns of

others, so that together we can

also suffer with what is happening

in Cabo Delgado. That is ours, so that

more

voices are raised so that we have a

better Mozambique, a Mozambique that

we all deserve, not the Mozambique that

we have, because the Mozambique that we

have is not the Mozambique that we

deserve. Mozambique is a land of good

people, man. We are good people, so much so that we are good people, that

people already use and abuse us. You see,

we always stay like that, we are

peaceful, man. We get used to it, we take these

pains and we

get around it, man. We are bad Mohicans,

we are very bad by origin. So you're only

understanding now, and I want to ask

one last question, but I'll ask you to

summarize this, that's the big challenge. What is

your dream for Mozambique? Wow,

simple, in a few words. Man, that

's an interesting question. Ah, can I