Conflitos na Empresa: O SEGREDO Transformar Discussões em CRESCIMENTO - #117

To what extent is conflict healthy,

important, and part of life?

What is conflict?

Disagreement on something.

Conflict is, well, I think we have to go

to the right, do you think we have to go to the

left? Oops, we have a conflict here.

How do we solve this?

To define a single path and have everyone

follow it?

I think the conflict also dies in the ego. You ca

n't take it personally. If you

're pursuing the company's goals and you

keep taking things personally, you'll

get stuck.

It's liberating when you stop taking

things so personally.

I guarantee it, man. Offending people

won't get you anywhere;

crossing the healthy line in

conflict won't lead you there.

In reality, conflict is resolved

within ourselves first, and then

we can resolve it with the other person,

right?

Sure, that's true. We resolve conflict

within ourselves first. Very good,

Robertinha.

Conflict. Let's talk about fighting, Rogério.

[laughter] Fight, fight.

But we were just arguing.

So, to what extent [laughs] does the

conflict—I'm not going to say fighting, right? I

mentioned conflict, but to what extent

is conflict healthy,

man? It's balanced, right? Zero conflict, I

don't know if that's healthy, something so lukewarm

, it's no fun.

Sausage water, right?

It's too much conflict, it can be toxic.

Let's argue, I mean, let's talk

about it today.

Let's go.

I am Roberta Anders,

I am Rogério Valentim,

and this is the Conversation of Se Roda Vinheiro.

I want to know who had the idea to

bring this topic up here, right? This topic

is very good.

So, Roger received a

request, right, from one of

our viewers, didn't he? Cool

. Thank you, viewer.

It was Leonilson who sent this topic,

this suggestion, and we found it very

relevant because what is a company

without conflict, right? Without a little bit

of conflict [laughter],

we have a conflict here,

we have a problem, right? Something

is definitely wrong. And he brought up some

questions that we thought were very

relevant, and we wanted to bring them here

for you to answer.

Let's talk

about R. So, the first thing he

questioned there was, how does he

manage conflicts well? And then

he brought up the question that opened this

episode, right? To what extent is conflict

healthy, important, part of life, and does

acceptance make it hurt less?

I think we need to start

by removing the negative connotations from the word "good management,"

right? What constitutes good management, then? What

is conflict? There is good conflict and there is

bad conflict.

Yes, conflict is disagreement about something,

right?

That. If we bring up the point of

conflict, it's not about fighting with

people, right? Well, conflict is: "Hey, I

think we should go to the right, do you

think we should go to the left? Oops, we have

a conflict here. How do we

resolve this, define a

single path and have everyone follow it?"

Conflict serves this purpose: to

bring ideas and thought to light,

leading you to the result that

is truly the most important thing.

Usually, conflict, once

resolved, leads to growth and progress

towards the objective. Exactly. That's

because if there's no conflict, if everyone

agrees on everything, you have a greater chance

of making mistakes.

Exactly.

You lose your critical sense of the situation.

So, what's the common sense in all of this? What

is the equilibrium? Man, it's hard to

quantify that, but conflict

is a good thing. When you're having

discussions, you're reaching an agreement and

following through on it and making it work.

When this conflict dies within the conflict itself,

then that's not good management. You can't

let the conflict die within the conflict.

I think the conflict also dies in the ego,

don't you think, R?

Yes, that's also a factor. Oh, it doesn't

always have to be me who wins, right? It's not a

question of winning or losing. When you

're in a business, in a company, if the

company is doing well, there are no winners and

losers. Everyone won. One doesn't have to

lose for the other to win. Whether it was my

idea that was chosen, your idea, the

way you wanted to do it, or my way, what's

important is that we achieve the

final goal.

Reach the ultimate goal. So the fact is,

whether it was idea one or

idea two, if it worked, then

everyone won.

Exactly.

This is the most important point

for you to understand what

good management is. It cannot die. Washing

dirty laundry belongs at home. My mother used to say

that, right? Washing dirty laundry indoors

, man. He closed the door in the room, solved

that problem there, made the decision,

left the room, and life went on. No, it can't

be personal.

Folks, closing the time indoors is part of the process,

especially for a management meeting. I

was even talking about that this week

. Management meetings

are more common the higher the management level.

They are conflictive. Yes, things got tense,

but the weather turned tense during the meeting.

He left the meeting, it's not personal, man. So,

how do we achieve good

conflict management? I think the first thing is for

us to say goodbye to the ego. [music] In this

song, it's difficult to

take things personally, don't take it

personally. So here's the thing, they don't have

the book of the four agreements, right?

Be impeccable with your word, don't

take anything personally. Which other one,

Robertinha?

Don't jump to conclusions.

Don't jump to conclusions and

always do your best.

And always give your best. These are the

four commitments. This book is

wonderful. Production team, put a drawing of the

book here so people can see it.

So, you can't take it

personally. If you're pursuing the

company's goals and you keep taking things

personally, you'll get stuck and won't

get anyone anywhere.

And honestly, folks, it's

liberating when you stop taking

things so personally. Well, when it comes to

conversations, to being subscribed to these posts, it's not

easy. It

's not easy.

And it's so interesting how much

we learn, how much we know,

and sometimes how much we forget, even though we already

know it, right? Because we didn't really

absorb it in a deep way.

You have to practice.

But it's liberating not to take things

personally, to understand that it's not about,

oh, Rogério disagreed with me, it's because

he doesn't like me. No, he

only disagreed because

he thought differently.

You can't control it.

And that's a good time for me to try to

understand, like, let me understand

what this guy is seeing that I'm not

seeing and that's making him disagree with

me. Because, well, it's obvious to me that

we have to go to the right, but it

's obvious to him that we have to go to the left. It

's time to put yourself in the

other person's shoes, understand what's going on,

what information you have that I have. The

conflict, in fact, is resolved

within ourselves first, and then

we go on to resolve it with the other person,

right? Wow, Robertinha really went

deep with that one. And truth. We

resolve conflict within ourselves

first. Very good, Robertinha. That was

very well put.

Exactly. But to what extent, Rogério,

is conflict healthy? Because, as we're

saying here, folks, there will be conflict, and

we have to learn to live with that.

We'll sort it out first. I hope

we've managed to make the

meaning of conflict clear to us, because

in my mind,

the limit of what becomes

healthy conflict is when it crosses the line from personal

and turns into offense, into an actual fight. Do you

think that really solves anything?

I've been working at EAG, Robertinho, for a long time

now, at one or something. I see the

companies, I serve many companies, and

generally the companies are

family businesses, usually mostly

run-down operations. And here it is, it will be, there's no

way around it, because there will be a succession. Uh-huh

.

So, and sometimes it creates a

family-like relationship within

Exactly. And then I see that this is

something that creates a sensitivity in the

process, starting to get people here

arguing, arguing, arguing, and soon

I'll say: "Hey, Bertinha, are you being

cheeky?" Uh-huh

.

That's it, it's over. That's the end of it. No, and it

stopped being healthy. One thing to say,

Robertinha, I don't agree with what you

're saying. Pay attention to what I'm

thinking here.

Don't think that way. We're not here,

like I told you once, and

you got very angry with me. I said,

"Dude, we're not friends, we're

solving a company problem."

Then you got upset with me, but you

understood. I didn't want to stray from the heart

of the matter. The question is this:

We've been working on resolving

this problem for 10 minutes. What do we think

about this? Let's talk about this problem. It has

nothing to do with relationships, it doesn't matter if

you think I'm nice or

annoying, that won't change anything.

This goes beyond the limits of what is considered

respect. So that

's maturity. That's when

we become focused on the problem.

So, dude, you can't be offensive, you can't,

you can't take it personally and you can't

force someone else to take it personally

too. It's when you say that the other person is

stupid, that the other person doesn't know how to do

something, that the other person doesn't

pay attention. This is just being offensive; it's

not leading to a solution of the problem. That's where

that wear and tear started, which I think is what

the boy is asking

and talking about. So, it's probably a

partnership or someone who's worked

together for a long time, a friend and all that, it turns into a

friendly fight, and then one tells the

other to go to hell.

You brought up something very

important now, because it's about how

when we work together for a long time,

when we have intimacy,

we tend to slip into the wrong boundaries [with music]

.

Yeah, we have a phrase here that's mine,

intimacy is a...

Intimacy is a... It

's not good. It is good. I like

Dai's style, you know? For those who

follow us, you know that Dai is

always with me, you even know what

Dai's image is like, she produces all the

material that I put on the

internet.

She's here, smiling.

She's here.

This one here, look.

And Dai has a very interesting way

of handling things, Robertinho. I think

emotionally, it's the way she

found to deal with it. There are conflicts because she

wants to do it one way, and I want to do it

another way. And in the end, DAI is the one in charge, right? It

wasn't supposed to be [laughs]

B, which he knows. Good that he knows. It

wasn't supposed to be like this. I don't consume,

in my last word, what is in the

end, she [laughs] cell phone, it will come out

the way that But we have

conflicts. She always does this.

Then she speaks, at that moment, I think

she thinks of a whole bunch of words

because some emotion must come up and stuff, and

we all have emotions, and the person, I admire

people who have the ability to

control themselves like that and avoid... there was that

moment when I thought, man, this

would cease to be a healthy conflict.

Here she is giving it to me in the middle and she chose.

Then she thinks and [laughs] says: "And when,

and when you ask her, and

when, and when you ask her,

you know, we've already talked about this

together, right? When you ask

her, she says: 'Ah, I prefer to choose

my words carefully.' Well, choosing your

words carefully is a way of respecting the

limits of healthy conflict.

And it's a choice. Look at that. You can

choose. What you brought up, R, is very

good to talk about in this issue of

giving ourselves time to breathe. I want to

offend this person. Sometimes we

want to, but we

offend in our heads. But in the

long run, will you continue wanting to

offend? Because then it's

emotional hijacking, right? I want to offend, I

want to hurt, I really do. Do you

really want to? Is that the objective?

Even if you want to, does that lead you

to achieve your objective? Does

offending someone

lead you to your objective? If your objective

is to distance yourself from this person, it will

work. Exactly.

But if your objective is to lead the company

down a path of..." Prosperity,

growth, and all that, I guarantee you, man,

offending people

won't get you anywhere.

Crossing that healthy boundary in

conflict won't take you there.

I think in all relationships,

when we cross those boundaries

of respect, the healthy boundary, it's

very difficult to go back. It's like

that parable of the broken glass, right?

Apologizing for a broken glass

won't glue it back together. And even if

you glue it back together, it will have those

scratches, right? So that's why

we have to take such good care of our

relationships. That's

it. I'm thinking here. Uh, this is

so important, Roberta, even though it's

a topic, people look at it and say:

"Wow, what a corny topic?" It's not corny at all

. It's extremely important, and even for that

reason, right? Among the six pillars of

EAG, there is the pillar of personal mastery.

And we value it so much and we've

focused on it a lot, right? One of the pillars

we deal with here at EAG is the pillar of

personal mastery. First, I know myself,

first I build myself up. So that I

can then actually build a company.

And we delve into these ideas of

personal mastery through

secondary training, including

with partners, so we can truly understand

how personal mastery can

make all the difference in your company. Yes,

in the immersion program, we

talk a lot about this, and we start

the immersion

with personal mastery, because

we start by putting people in

exactly

this mindset,

and only through personal mastery will you be

able to apply culture, leadership,

management,

finance, take care of finances, and

attract clients to your company.

Exactly. Very good. And if you want to

talk more deeply, study

this more deeply, the

right place is to do the EAG immersion program. And for

that, okay, production, we've put the address

here in the pinned link

for you to go there. You can

click on the link, it will take you to a registration form,

you register here, my team will

contact you, will explain it to

you in detail within a

strategic session that will leave you... Renewed.

Just the strategic session alone is worth its weight in gold.

Do the strategic session, understand the

moment. The team will make it clear to

you what your current situation is, what

you need, how G can help you,

we close the deal, and we

meet here in person, right,

Robertinha? It's really great to say that, is

n't it? I used to say that, now I see

the results. I say: "I'll see you

here in person." And you know what

happens when we go to the immersion?

Now I don't know what day

this video is showing, but we're a

week away from the next event, and when we

get there we say: "I can't believe

I'm meeting you guys, Robertinha,

you said I'd see you here,

and here I am!" We talk to

you, we really enjoy this

experience, we do it from the heart.

So take advantage of it, right? If you think there are

areas you need to

improve to take your company to

the next level, it's in the pinned link.

And come and see for yourself, okay?

Come, come, come, come, come,

come, because We're waiting. And we

have to do it,

we have to do it. To conclude, we

have this issue of leadership, right?

So, we talked here about how far

conflict is important, is healthy,

we already understand that it is, but there are

limits that cannot be crossed.

We talked about personal control,

we talked about what good

management is. So Rogério brought that up, right?

But you, as a leader, master, the owner, to

what extent or how do you impose your will

in the face of these conflicting decisions?

[music]

There we have the

excellent word you used: impose.

Impose, because there are things that have to be

done the way you want.

Rogério and I disagree about 64

times a day, but I understand that there are

things that Rogério knows that I

don't yet know. So he's seeing the company from

a point of view that I don't have,

right? So I have this understanding. How do you

do it, Rogério, to bring that in? I

have one now before we go into the

recording, look at this. That's interesting. That's why

I like to have

conversations, I like to talk about what I

do, right? The kind where people say they're proud of

me because I do this. That's right.

To be proud, because we only talk

about what we do, right? [laughs]

Be proud of me, really. I appreciate your

pride.

We were discussing this because I'm

going to give a talk now, and I still

don't consider myself a professional speaker,

and so on. There are some topics I like

to talk about, and so on.

And the girls keep saying, "Wow, it's cool

[laughs] what you do, you're

doing this here, look."

And then we're here discussing a

talk I'm going to give for a

sponsor, and then an idea came up,

Roberta, "No, why do you have to

do this, Roberta? It doesn't work,

because I'm going to say, there's no

audience that understands this, and so on," no,

because it's cool, because she's

influenced by the fact that she likes

this talk. [laughs] Look, uh,

I have a title of owner,

uh-huh.

I have a title of CEO.

which means nothing. It's no use me

being the owner and ordering her around; maybe she'll

obey out of respect, but is that

really what we

want? That's what we have to think about.

I would replace the phrase "impose" with "

influence." I think that when we

influence, we gain something from the person

that is much more valuable than money can

buy, which is affection, love, and

respect. In the end, I left this meeting

here, I gave two quick presentations to Roberta

, showing her what I would

do, what I think is cool. And then she was

fascinated by the topic I wanted to

do. And in the end, she's even going home and

will give the presentation for me,

because she has the skills to do

that, right? She's a designer by training.

And I not only convinced her; I could have

ordered her to do it, but that's not the

path I believe in. So I

convinced her that there's a

cool thing to do. She embraced the idea, not only

embraced the idea, but she's going to help me

build it. What's more

productive? To say that... Do you have the

power to command and have the person obey, or can

you influence and achieve the best possible

result you [musician] could achieve by doing

this activity? That's the advice

I'll leave you with. So, I won you over with

the conversation, and you're even going to do it for

me. Because we have to

do it quickly, you'll do it happily,

because she's the one who suggested it, she's the one who

committed, she's the one who liked the

idea. So

, man, and me telling

her this makes her proud.

So here, it's over, the conflict is

resolved, that's the real

healthy conflict. I didn't want to do it, she

wanted me to. She convinced me

to do it, and I convinced her that to

do it well, I think if

we did it this way it would be great.

We're convinced and we're going to produce a

great result. In the end, you know what's going to

happen? We're going to have a group of people who

will watch this lecture, who will

be very happy, will receive

great content, and we're going to

influence people too.

Uh-huh.

That's the... that's the... Okay,

so there's something important here. Why

was it so easy to convince her?

Because I was focused on the result. Not

because

we weren't fighting to win,

because there's no such thing as a victory. The victory is

twofold. It was

n't about me winning or her winning. We

were playing to win. In the end, we

were playing to win. And we shifted

the focus from the problem to the

solution and reached a really good agreement

. In the end, we're both happy

here. Even if she's going to work, she's very

happy because she'll be able to

deliver something great. And I'll

deliver it willingly because I

want it to work, right? I wanted to bring something

great there.

Now adapt. Look at the types

of problems you're facing.

Adapt, think about what I

told you and try to influence

people instead of, you know, making them do it

by force. Imposition isn't

very good. I won't tell you I've

never done it that way. Uh-huh.

But the more I learn, the more I

learn.

It's that I believe that when we...

It imposes a bittersweet feeling, right?

We're left with that thought, "I got

what I wanted, but at what cost?"

So, is that really the goal?

To get what I wanted? And is

the result normal, is it the best option?

So, to conclude, uh, we

have here that he says he believes

he's being toxic in certain

decisions and positions. And that's where

this conflict arose. And hearing

that phrase, probably yes, because

when we have the feeling that

we're being toxic, probably at

some point,

first thing, applause for him.

Exactly.

Because recognizing yourself in a problem is the

first thing you have to do

to solve that problem. If you're

recognizing yourself like that, I'll give you a

tip. Write down the attitude you're

taking that's making you feel

this way. Then you read that and say:

"Well, if I did this, what's the

antidote, right?" "So, if I was

rude, what's the antidote?" "Well, I'll

be kind."

Uh-huh.

Ah, if I spoke that way,

how did I do that? Why did I

get to this point?

Why did I react like that, and how

could I react next time?

How am I going to feel better?

You have to act in a way that makes

you feel good.

Exactly.

And look at what you did. Writing it down is

important because later you can

reflect on it and you'll see

exactly what you're doing. And if

you don't want to be toxic, wow, great

step. The second step is to write it down. The

third step is to take

different actions. Then you'll get used to following these

steps,

right? Or we'll

talk about personal development. But anyway, I

was very happy to receive this

comment here. Also, Leon,

thank you very much. I hope we

managed to address the issue, to

bring you some other

point of view, right, Rô? And Congratulations

again, because when we realize this,

that's the most important step. After that, it's

just a matter of going,

the rest will be details.

Exactly. And it will be adjusted, right? That's it

.

And guys, we also have a tip,

right? When we're talking about

conflict here, we're talking about

objectives, we have an episode,

episode 113, where we talk about

why the team ignores [music] the

goals. So I strongly recommend that

you finish this episode here and

go straight to this other episode. It's a

short episode, right? We talked for about

20 minutes about why

people do this and how to solve it, right?

My role here is to show how we

solve it. That's it

. Done. Robertinha, it was a

pleasure to do this recording here today with

you. [laughs]

I really liked touching on the

subject. At the beginning I

said: "Wow, we're going to talk about

something that's not good, but I liked, I

liked the way you led

us to approach this here. It went

really well. Congratulations, and

best wishes to you too.

Thank you very much. Congratulations to you

as well. Guys, we'll be

back next week,

God willing. Ciao. Ciao.

[music]