What Should Galatasaray Fans Expect from Lesley Ugochukwu? Burnley Expert Explains

All right, boys and girls. Welcome back to the  Galatasaray Show. We have Joe Redmond with us from  

the Turf Cast podcast and show which is all about  Burnley. Joe, thanks for coming on today. No,  

thank you for inviting me, Brad. It's a pleasure.  So, before we talk about Lesley Ugochukwu, tell us  

about yourself and how you got started covering  Burnley. Yeah, well, I'm from Burnley, born and  

bred, been a season ticket holder for as much as  I can remember. I went on my first game before my  

first birthday. My dad took me on in one of the  the baby holder things there. Um, apparently I  

cried when Burnley scored because it were too  loud and laughed when the opposition scored,  

he says. I don't know how true that is. Um, and  I actually ended up sort of like doing journalism  

and stuff at university. Um, but when I was  working in journalism and things like that, it's  

a dying industry mainly due to the rise of stuff  like fan channels and, you know, social media. M  

um so I I struggled to get in if I'm honest with  you and um at 30 I was made redundant for the  

third time at 30 year old from a radio station  over in Leeds um or or might have been 32. No, I  

think I was 30. Pretty sure I was 30. It was 2018.  Um and my little boy had just been born. My little  

boy had just been born. So I had like a six-month  old little boy at the time. And I remember saying  

to his mom, my partner at the time, I can't keep  doing this and I need a change of industry. So I  

changed industry and I work in sort of like  television production and stuff like that,  

but I missed creating content and I missed the  day-to-day life of journalism. So to kind of like  

scratch that itch, I created Turf Cast. And then  I just I kind of like scratched that itch through  

the channel, cover the clar through turf cast,  but obviously less of a journalistic sort of like  

point of view, more of a a fan point of view, lads  down the pub discussing the footy sort of thing.  

So that's how I got into it. Perfect. Yeah, my my  channel's the same way. It's a uh people like it  

because it's a fan driven channel. We ask Yeah.  question most journalists aren't going to ask.  

So we signed Lesley. Most of us don't know, didn't  know anything about him when we got him. Yeah. So,  

you watched him all last season is think he made  35 some odd appearances. If you were walking down  

the streets of Burnley today and a Galatasaray fan  bumped into you and recognized you, how what would  

you tell them about Lesley? How would you explain  him as a player? I'd say he's a midfielder. Um  

more of a box-to-box type player rather than a 10  or a defensive type player. Um, he can drive with  

the ball, but it's it I don't know if again I I  don't know if it because we had I don't know how  

much you guys will know about a manager last  season, Scott Parker. It's it's quite a meme  

over here that he he is ne a negative manager. Um,  but Lesley when he forward with the ball, he did  

it with such reluctance sometimes and such like he  was so slow on the ball. But I I think partly that  

could be due due to Scott Parker and the negative  mindset that was instilled in the players. So my  

main criticism of Les would be to sort like drive  forward, drive with purpose because when he drove  

forward with the ball, players struggle to get  it off him. He was just ridiculously slow and he  

wouldn't do it as often as I wanted him to. So for  a boxto-box midfielder, he does need to be better  

at that. Um but yeah, that's probably the best way  to describe him really. is is not a a 10, he's not  

a four, he's more of an eight in the boxto-box  type role who um I would have liked to have seen  

in the Championship. I think the Premier League  was a little bit um much for him. Uh he was up  

against obviously some very good midfielders over  the course of the season and I do think it was a  

little bit much for him. But what I've noticed  in English football league and when you compare  

it to the Premier League so many times I've seen  players that just look absolutely despondent in  

the Premier League, they look terrible. or you're  thinking how how is this lad even a professional  

footballer then they drop down to the championship  and and they're one of the best in the division.  

So I was hoping for something similar for Les  um this season but obviously not to be. he's  

he's gone to Galatasaray and um yeah I know I  know it's um initially a loan, but um hopefully  

um we you know from both fans perspectives I  think it'd be um be permanent next year so we  

might not see him in the championship or who knows  if he get promoted again he might he might change  

his mind but obviously I think it all depends  on the on the structure of the deal from your  

side well you know we we have two former Premier  Leaguers in our defensive midfield Mario Lemina  

from Wolves and Lucas Torreria from Arsenal  now that was one of our weaknesses Last year,  

we did not have a good backup for either one of  them. So, I think he'll I think he will get a  

lot of minutes in the midfield, especially in the  Super Lig. And who knows if he shows himself well,  

maybe even in the Champions League. Yeah,  definitely. Like I said, he can do that role,  

the four role, the defensive mid role, but I do  think he's better kind of like sitting in front  

of the defense and then when you attack and and go  forward with purpose, get up there with you guys.  

be more of the the box-to-box type midfielder.  That that's the same. So, Torreria kind of serves  

that same role for us. Fair enough. Yeah, he  might do well in that role then. Definitely  

if he struggled there last year. And so, but  Torreria and Lemina, you know, they're both in  

their low 30s, 33, 32. So, they're starting to get  up there a little bit and they need they need they  

need rest. They can't they can't start every game  and play every minute of every game. Yeah. No,  

definitely. So, you said you were hoping he would  stay. the were the Burnley fans disappointed that  

he was leaving or did they understand from the  economic side that it had to happen? Yeah, I think  

it's the same like the likes of Maxim Esteve who's  also left and Jayden Anthony who's also left.  

It's the same every time I get relegated from the  Premier League. The the money that you get in the  

Premier League compared to the money that you get  in the Championship as I'm sure you're aware the  

difference is astronomical. Um, so if you carried  on playing Premier League, sorry, paying Premier  

League wages in the Championship, the only thing  that's going to happen is the club won't exist in  

five years because HMRC will come and take it  all away. So, we understand that players need  

to be sold. We were told a few times this time  that it won't be as dramatic as the last couple  

times we've been relegated. Um, my hope is that  we're just getting the business done early. Um,  

I do think Hannibal Medri might end up leaving and  I do think Zean Fleming might end up leaving. So,  

I think the Burnley fans on a whole look at the  deal and think it's a good deal for Burnley. Um,  

in terms of the money that's potentially coming  in once, you know, if it happens next year. Um,  

despite a lot of us thinking, well, maybe he'd do  a job in the Championship. I think sometimes when  

you look at it, as you say, the economic side  of it and you and you understand that Burnley  

have quite a lot of rising debt due to the way  that the owners run the club. We have a lot of  

interest payments. We've currently got parachute  payments which will will run out in two years if  

we don't get promoted again. Um so yeah, Burnley  fans, yeah, I think both can be true at the same  

time. You could be disappointed he's left, but um  completely understand it. Yeah, we're we're all a  

little jealous of that Premier League TV contract.  I don't I don't care what league you're in. You  

wish you had that money. Yeah, it's one of them  though like it's it's um bit of a poison sort of  

like chalice because that so many clubs go up over  spend to try and keep up with the the rest of the  

Premier League and then when they get relegated  that they're in heaps of trouble like it happened  

to leads quite a while ago. It's happened to  Portsmouth. It's happened to Bolton. Like so many  

teams have just absolutely plummeted and obviously  we're just hoping that we're not the next but  

the last few times I've been in the championship  we've you know we've done pretty well 100 points  

in both seasons. So, you know, fingers crossed  we couldn't. And you know what? I'd take 95  

points. I'd take 95 points because that guarantee  promotion probably. Yeah, you you would think so.  

So, Galatasaray plays a high press type of system.  Yeah. Do you think that he would thrive in that  

type of system? You know, it's interesting because  I've never seen him in that type of system. Um,  

so I probably can't look at him and and  use examples of where he where he would.  

I would be surprised if he thrived in that sort  of system. I'm not saying he's lazy um at all. Um  

but the way he runs, as I've said, it's quite  nonchalant, is quite slow. So I think I think  

pressing with purpose, which you know, there's  no point in pressing unless you're going to press  

with purpose, then I think he might struggle  with that. But depends on your gaffer, depends  

if you know he can drum it into him, get it into.  interested actually that you've said that because  

we had a quite a negative manager that didn't like  pressing last season or even the season before in  

the championship but we've now got Nikki Hyen um  a Belgium manager who to be honest I don't know  

too much about but from conversations that I've  had he is quite a high pressing manager as well  

so he if he is going to struggle it would have  been easier to do in the championship probably  

um so if he does struggle with that over  there then he probably would have struggled  

with it here as well so I it might be one of them  where you leave the pressing up to other players  

um and let Les sort of like sit in behind and then  and then get involved after you've hopefully from  

your case won the press. Well, you know, we we got  Leroy Sane last season from Bayern and initially  

he didn't want to press. All of a sudden,  magically he was on the bench. Well, that's the  

language, isn't it? That's the language of these  professional footballers. Do it or you drop. So,  

all of a sudden they they all learn how to do it.  Yeah. He sat there a couple weeks and suddenly  

he was a great presser. He was fantastic at high  pressing. I bet. I bet. Yeah, Les Les could be the  

same. Less could be the same. Who knows? Is there  an area that's obvious to you, you know, he he's  

a young player where he has a lot of upside, but  he needs to improve. Uh it's again, it's difficult  

because it it was pro probably ball winning, I'd  say. I didn't really see him win again like this.  

you you you could now delve into stats and tell  me how I was wrong, but I'm one of them that that  

goes off the eye test rather than and sitting in  stat. Don't get me wrong, I'll sometimes look at  

stats to see if I'm making a fool of myself more  often than not I am. Um, but yeah, winning the  

ball. Um, I don't remember ever really seeing him  like properly put in any proper rough challenges  

and things like that. Again, football's not really  gone that way anymore. Like you don't really see  

like proper crunching challenges these days and  stuff like that. I didn't really see him the  

ball too much, but um I just go back to my earlier  answer if I'm honest with you. So like he clearly  

has an ability to be able to run with the ball.  It just sometimes felt like he didn't believe in  

himself with it. He didn't trust himself that much  with it. He didn't drive forward with purpose when  

we would have wanted him to. So I' I'd probably  say that's the not necessarily the biggest  

weakness, but the biggest frustration with Les  because you do want him to do that. You want him  

to run a bit faster. you want him to sort of like  be a bit more athletic with that sort of thing,  

running with the ball when he can be a little  bit slow. So, I'd say that were that were the  

um the main thing that stood out for me throughout  the course of the season. So far, I I kind of like  

what I'm hearing because our coach Okan Buruk,  he is not a disciplinarian. He's a former player  

himself for Galatasaray. Yeah. He is a players  coach. Yeah. Yeah. And so I feel like from what  

I'm hearing so far about Les that's something that  he might thrive under potentially. Yeah. Obviously  

it's horses for courses, isn't it? Some people  respond to different types of management. Some  

people prefer the Arsen Wenger style where it's  relaxed where some people need the Alex Ferguson  

hairdryer. Um that's sort of like um what's the  word? Not really as popular these days, isn't it?  

I feel like a lot feel like a I feel like we're  going a lot down the coach route, players coach  

route, head coaches than we are actual managers  these days. So, um yeah, obviously you guys  

will be able to watch him thrive hopefully  for your your case in that scenario. Yeah,  

I think if somebody tried to coach kids today like  my youth coach coached me in the 70s, they'd be in  

jail. Yeah. Yeah, I know what you mean. I watch my  little boy go football training these days and and  

it's so different to when I were a kid. I remember  once I went forward the with the ball. Um there  

was a pass on. I decided not to take the pass on.  I tried to take this defender on. Lost the ball  

and I turned around to my manager. He's effing and  jeffing and then he kicked he kicked a bag on the  

side of the pitch. All these bottles come flying  out the bag. Whereas these days if my little boy  

did that, everyone's like, "Don't worry. Keep  going." So, uh yeah, it's it's so different,  

isn't it? You can do it. I believe in basically  you inside blood's boiling. I believe in you.  

All right. So So get your crystal ball, put  on your uh professor hat a year from now. So  

this time next summer, the Champions League is  done and dusted for Galatasaray . The season's  

over. The Turkish Cup is done. What do you think  Galatasaray fans will be saying about him? I think  

he'll be saying he's quite a solid midfielder.  Um, I feel like obviously with all due respect,  

I I think I think the Turkish League isn't as  strong as the Premier League. So, I think I  

think it's a good place for him for to go and and  and maybe have a little bit more time on the ball,  

maybe learn some new systems, maybe learn a new  environment and things like that. And then and  

then if he does come back to the Premier League  eventually, he'll be able to use that experience  

from there to then test himself in the Premier  League or or or somewhere else around Europe if  

that's the route he goes down. Um, I do, like  I said, I feel like at the start of the video  

where I said I was disappointed to see him leave  because I do feel like he can be a big presence  

in in a midfield, especially in the Championship.  U but playing in the Premier League last season,  

the midfield, it got bypassed a lot. Like the  midfield was probably one of our weakest areas  

um in in certain games. To be honest with you,  every single area was weak. Was weak defensively,  

but it was weak up front and then sometimes was  also weak in the middle. We was weak everywhere.  

Um, so it'd be interesting, but I feel I  feel like in a division where he will be  

at one of the better teams as obviously  Galatasaray are who are going for titles,  

going for cups, going for progression in the  Champions League. I feel like he will do well,  

especially domestically. You might see, depending  on who you play in the Champions League, you might  

see him get go go go a little bit anonymous in the  Champions League. Again, like I said, depending on  

who you're playing against, it will be I I will  probably keep an eye out for him, especially in  

the Champions League, to see how he's getting on  against the better midfielders. But like I said,  

it I would have liked to have seen him in the  Championship as a presence in that midfield  

driving forward against less quality players than  what he would have done in the Premier League. And  

I think the Turkish Super League is is basically  another version of that. So, I feel like he he  

could probably do well and be be a decent presence  in that midfield. Definitely. Perfect. Now,  

one final question. How do you pronounce his last  name? Well, you know what? It's funny because when  

you pronounced it earlier, it did sounded like you  struggled. And I'm going to be honest with you,  

I struggle throughout the entire season. Uh I am  known on my channel as Joe the Butcher cuz I get  

names wrong all the time. I just butcher names.  So, I just called him Big Les. And so, that that  

was just so easy. It was like big le job done. I  don't have to say ugachuk, which is what I said.  

But then commentators will say ugu or something.  So I just thought get rid of the the the possible  

butchering of the name and just call him big le.  But we do that like it's a Lancaster thing. We  

have these thick broad accents up here that can't  say certain words. Like we had a player called  

Loom Cha who's just gone to Coventry. We just  called him tuna like tuna fish. We just called him  

tuna. Hey my my last name starts with a W. They  don't even have a W in the Turkish alphabet. There  

you go. There you go. And then there's also Maxim  Esteve. Burnley fans were just like, "Nah, we'll  

call him Steve." So we we we are we are used to  this. We are used to this. So it we're big less.  

So feel free to feel free to to have the torch.  I'll pass the torch on to you mate. You can carry  

that on for you. Big L. Big L. Now tell everybody  if they are interested in Burnley as they make  

their journey through the championship this season  where they can uh where they can find you. Yeah.  

Yeah. So, just search Turfcast Podcast on all  social media platforms. We do have podcast in the  

name, but we are primarily a YouTube channel these  days. It's cuz when I started it out, the plan was  

just to be a podcast, but then obviously massive  brain wave. Let's take this over to YouTube. Um,  

you're you're you're far too handsome just to be  on a podcast. Thank you very much. Uh, face for  

radio, my mom used to say. Um, no, she didn't  really. Um, but uh, yeah, obviously I took it  

over to YouTube. So, just search Turfcast. We're  on Facebook, we're on YouTube, we're on Instagram,  

we're on Twitter, we're on um Tik Tok as well.  We're on them all these days. And uh yeah,  

we do sort of like match previews, match reviews,  um fan fan reactions. I sometimes do these midweek  

ponders where I just walk around and sort of like  express what I'm thinking. Um I'm hoping to do a  

few more vlogs this year, but um vlogs take up a  lot of time. when you also work full-time and have  

an 8-year-old son and a partner that I I need to  keep happy, um things sometimes can get a little  

bit away from me. But, um I'm hoping um and I've  said this on my channel and I don't I'll be honest  

with you, I'm not sure it's going to happen, but  I'm hoping to go to Ajax this Sunday because we  

play Ajax on Sunday in a friendly, but when I  was younger, yeah, it'll be well it'll be loads  

of fun. I promised my little boy as well. Um, but  when I when I I'm thinking flights to Amsterdam,  

90 quid from Manchester, but that's what they  used to be. Last time I went to to Amsterdam,  

it was 75 quid return. 250 quid per person.  Two I'm spending 500 quid before I've even got  

there. And that's not that's probably not even  counting your bag. No, I'm not allowed a bag.  

I'm not allowed a bag. It's it's scandalous.  So I I don't think I'm going to go now to be  

honest with my little boy said to me today, are we  still going? Honestly, mate, I don't think so. Um,  

but we're hoping to do more more stuff like that.  Um, I will miss the first game actually cuz I'm  

um I'm on holiday. So, um, but you know, we'll  still do the reviews. I'll still I'll still do a  

review, just won't do a a fulltime show. Maybe  get some of the other lads to do it because I  

do have some other lads helping out. But yeah,  uh, I'm wittering. Just to sort like summarize,  

um, there is a lot of stuff we do on the channel  and just search Turfcast on YouTube, on Facebook,  

on Twitter, whatever your social media is,  and you will find us. Perfect. Well, thanks  

for taking the time and uh visiting with the  Galatasaray fans. No, thanks for having me, mate.