0:00
So, this is a complete impromptu video.
0:02
We've got no rehearsal, no script, or
0:03
anything. But, I saw Tim, and I wanted
0:05
to get you on camera because Tim is the
0:08
head of vehicle fleet. He's the one that
0:09
decides which vehicles come to force,
0:11
which vehicles he uses traffic cars,
0:13
which vehicles you pick and spec out,
0:15
and why pick them out. So, I thought
0:16
it'd be good for members of the public
0:18
to understand the reasons why and what
0:20
it takes behind the scenes. So, Tim,
0:22
first of all, thank you for speaking to
0:24
>> Um let's go straight into the the
0:27
nitty-gritty, so to speak. Let's do road
0:29
traffic vehicles. What makes you sit in
0:32
an office and pick the road traffic
0:34
vehicles for the officers out there on
0:36
>> Would you like a cup of tea?
0:38
>> Well, sitting in an office and drinking
0:39
tea is my specialty, I can tell you
0:41
>> I want you You want you to have a cup of
0:43
>> I I can have that job as well. I spend a
0:45
lot of my time doing that. Um really,
0:47
it's a collaborative effort. So,
0:49
nationally, we tend to pick the same
0:51
type of vehicles that that's Each
0:53
different police force is picking from a
0:57
And how we get to that acquisition of
0:58
that vehicle and deciding what it is,
1:00
there's a whole process that goes into
1:02
that in the background, and it's not
1:03
just Tim sat there making a decision
1:05
saying, "I'll have that car, I'll have
1:07
that car, I'll have the other car." We
1:09
have nationally a vehicle selection that
1:11
we pick from. Those vehicles have been
1:13
selected on a on a a huge range of
1:16
criteria. We need to make sure that
1:18
these vehicles, which are operating at
1:21
the very extremes of their design
1:22
envelope, are capable of doing the job.
1:26
That's in terms of can they perform at
1:27
the speed, can they perform at maximum
1:29
gross weight, what are they like at
1:30
handling. Now, I don't have the
1:32
resources in Cheshire Constabulary to do
1:34
that kind of testing and evaluation.
1:36
But, fortunately, our colleagues at the
1:38
Metropolitan Police have their own huge
1:41
in-house testing facility where they
1:43
evaluate the vehicles. So, our
1:45
procurement contracts that we use
1:46
nationally to buy our vehicles off
1:49
manages to filter out our vehicles down
1:51
to a select few vehicles. And then, in
1:53
each category, for example, roads
1:55
policing vehicles or marked response
1:57
cars, A number of vehicles then go
1:59
through a really rigorous testing and
2:01
evaluation process, and we end up with a
2:03
short list of vehicles.
2:05
>> Then we get the manufacturer support in
2:07
terms of pricing and support. And we
2:09
need to look at deciding which of those
2:11
vehicles are going to offer us the best
2:13
value for money. Not necessarily the
2:15
outright purchase price, but the whole
2:17
life cost of those vehicles.
2:18
>> How well are they going to last? How
2:20
well are they going to do the job? And
2:21
are they going to be still fit for
2:22
purpose in 5 years time as they were
2:24
when they were brand new?
2:25
>> Cuz there's there's not just a I'm I'm
2:28
going to go to this garage and pick this
2:29
car off the shelf. No, there's a lot to
2:31
think about in regards to fitting your
2:33
light bars, fitting your electronics
2:35
inside, wiring looms, radio. Is this
2:38
vehicle going to perform 155 mph for
2:41
50-mile pursuit while it's got an extra
2:44
10 stone in the back, X, Y, and Z? So, a
2:47
few quick questions for you.
2:49
Is there a list, or can you tell me
2:51
that? Is there a list, cuz we always
2:52
say, "Can we have one of them?" And they
2:54
say, "It's not on the list."
2:55
>> Is there an actual list of cars that you
2:58
can go A at the top, Alpha, all the way
3:02
I'm going to say Zebedee, we're making
3:04
this car up at the bottom. Is there a
3:10
>> There is kind of a list. It's evolving
3:12
all the time, so the list is changing
3:14
all the time with our procurement
3:15
colleagues. So, obviously, manufacturers
3:18
are changing their vehicles all the
3:19
time. And as we move away from internal
3:21
combustion engine vehicles in petrol and
3:23
diesel, manufacturers are shrinking the
3:25
ranges that they have. They're
3:27
discontinuing ranges of cars, or they're
3:29
certainly discontinuing the
3:30
high-performance variants of those cars.
3:32
So, quite often we have to shift to
3:34
another brand, or another make, and
3:36
another model. So, when we say, "Is
3:38
there a list?" it's not a permanent
3:39
list. It's a list that's evolving all
3:42
How is You just hit the nail on the head
3:44
for my next question. How is the the
3:47
thing that we're going through? Because
3:49
I remember being in traffic, and it was
3:50
petrol. Everything were petrol, 2.8, 3
3:53
L, 3.2. Get your big engines in. And
3:57
then petrol were the enemy, we went to
3:59
diesel. And then now diesel's the enemy,
4:01
and then we're going to electric. You
4:02
know the story. How does it feel when
4:05
someone's coming in now and saying,
4:06
"Right, we're going electric." And how
4:08
hard does it make your job when you
4:10
might go, "Right, we've got" and I'm not
4:12
saying we've got a Tesla, we've got
4:13
this, we've got that. Will traffic cars,
4:15
in your opinion, go fully electric?
4:18
>> Oh, undoubtedly, undoubtedly. So, we we
4:20
are following the government's road to
4:22
zero target. So, we've got distinct
4:24
milestones in there. So, by 2030, the
4:27
only vehicles we'll be able to buy from
4:29
then are pure EVs or hybrids. And from
4:31
2035, pure EVs. Now, governments change,
4:34
new governments come in. We've had
4:36
previous governments move the goal post
4:37
5 years one way, 5 years the other way.
4:40
These manufacturers are working on 10-15
4:42
year timelines. They've already got
4:44
their roll out of how they're going to
4:47
>> They've got the zero emission vehicle
4:49
mandate, the ZEV mandate, which tells
4:52
them how what percentage of their
4:53
vehicles that they're selling in the UK
4:54
every year have to be pure electric. And
4:57
that's ramping up each year, each year,
4:59
each year. It's 28, it's 33%, and it's
5:01
going up and up and up till it gets to
5:03
100% at the end of that at the end of
5:06
that graph. So, it's coming at one
5:08
point. The challenge for us in in
5:10
policing, especially as we're a
5:12
not-for-profit organization spending
5:14
taxpayers' money, is how are we going to
5:16
deliver high-performance electric
5:20
That's not the hardest part. The hardest
5:22
part is how we're going to charge them
5:23
>> Yeah. This is the idea cuz you can't go
5:27
a shift, and I'm just going to say a
5:28
Tesla. You can't go out on a shift in a
5:31
and then do 10 hours and come back on a
5:34
20% charge. And just as we're pulling in
5:36
a police station, in his BMW M340s,
5:39
actually on me a 52. We've had a stolen
5:40
vehicle. It's literally two streets
5:42
where it's now making off, and you're
5:45
"I think it's just my car. Yeah. I'm
5:47
going to burn through this within a
5:48
couple of seconds. You've got to have
5:49
that thought process. So, it might work
5:51
on change over times for vehicle fleets
5:54
to out crossover limits and this sort of
5:56
>> But, it is going to come in at some
5:58
point. It's definitely coming in at some
5:59
point. We are fortunate in what you
6:01
might call the smaller shire forces like
6:03
we are that we're not pioneers in this.
6:06
There are others. There are other
6:07
organizations, there are other police
6:09
forces. So, Police Scotland invested
6:12
heavily in electric vehicles on the lead
6:15
up to the COP26 and they've got a series
6:18
of experts, guy called Billy there at
6:21
at Scotland that gives us in the smaller
6:24
forces advice. Really, really good at
6:26
sharing their learning in terms of
6:28
mistakes that they've made along the way
6:30
and how they have made um
6:32
various changes in the way that they do
6:34
their EV charging. So, we don't have to
6:36
make expensive mistakes. There are
6:38
others ahead of us who've already worked
6:39
out how to do it. It's just us following
6:41
behind them and making that happen,
6:43
>> Yeah. One thing you said to me earlier
6:45
on about taxpayers' money. There's so
6:47
many videos I make and people out there
6:49
waste taxpayers' money. I did a Golf R,
6:51
waste taxpayers' money. I did an S S3,
6:54
waste taxpayers' money. And then you
6:55
start going through, well, what sort of
6:57
vehicles can you get that aren't as
7:00
>> What the hell is that?
7:01
>> That's a 2015 Tartan Prancer.
7:04
>> That can do the role but have the
7:06
reliability. It that's got to be a
7:08
minefield for you because I'm not saying
7:11
they say it, you buy cheap, you buy
7:13
>> So, anytime we run out of juice, we can
7:14
just pull right over and
7:17
plug in. I don't I don't know what that
7:20
>> But, there's got to be some cars that
7:21
you think, well, not 60s as fast as
7:22
this. But, this when you look at
7:24
reliability or cost wise, might I be
7:27
twice as much as a Golf R or half as
7:29
much as a Golf R, but you look at
7:30
reviews and go, they break within 2
7:33
>> That's got to be a bit of responsibility
7:34
on your shoulders and it's got to be a
7:36
bit of a minefield for you navigate.
7:38
>> You've hit the nail on the head there.
7:40
the race to the bottom in prices, you
7:42
can always find a cheaper car. We can
7:44
always buy a cheaper car. We can pay
7:45
less and less and less for those
7:46
vehicles. Actually, the number of high
7:48
performance vehicles, and I'm not just
7:50
talking about your average run-of-the-
7:51
run-of-the-mill cars, your high
7:53
performance vehicles, the actual number
7:55
of those vehicles, the manufacturers
7:57
that are producing those is getting
7:58
smaller and smaller and smaller. And
8:00
that's because of the emissions of those
8:02
vehicles produce and how they get
8:05
penalized by the EU for for producing
8:07
those vehicles in terms of the Euro 5
8:11
um CO2 gram that they have over the
8:13
limit that they do. So, the number of
8:15
vehicles is getting smaller. But, yes,
8:16
you can buy cheaper. And if you look
8:18
back in history, we've bought high
8:20
performance vehicles that are super
8:22
fragile like racing cars. So, I think
8:24
about when we used to buy Subaru
8:26
Imprezas, you think about the Vauxhall
8:28
Wales. Yeah, you've got You've got the
8:30
Hyundai Ns. These are performance
8:32
vehicles that really are based on rally
8:34
cars and need that kind of rally car
8:36
maintenance. They aren't robust enough
8:38
to do the kind of shifts and put kind of
8:40
work in. So, we tend to pick the more
8:42
premium brands because they've got the
8:44
better longevity, they're better in
8:46
terms of their resilience and
8:49
parts availability. You know, when when
8:50
a when a VW product, you mentioned the
8:52
Golf R, when one of those goes off the
8:55
road, you you know you're not waiting 6
8:56
months for a drive shaft to come from
8:58
Japan or whatever because it's a
9:00
European manufacturer. Parts available
9:02
is better. The resilience of the vehicle
9:04
is better. And again, we're looking at
9:06
vehicles that have been through a very
9:07
rigorous testing procedure with the Met
9:09
Police who are making sure that that
9:12
is going to do what it needs to do for a
9:14
long time, not just for the first 2
9:17
>> So, can I throw something at you? And I
9:19
one thing I never get involved in is
9:20
politics, race, religion.
9:22
Don't panic. I'm not going to throw that
9:24
at you. However, you said governments do
9:26
change. Governments can change. Someone
9:28
gets in tomorrow, I'm not going to
9:29
mention any names, but someone gets in
9:30
tomorrow and says, "Right, we're out of
9:32
this green rub- I'm not saying rubbish.
9:34
I'm not saying They say, "We're out of
9:36
this green rubbish thing. We're not
9:40
petrol 3 L whatever."
9:42
Does that change the way they knew do if
9:44
you get a a car bunch and saying, "Hang
9:46
on, we don't have to go electric. We can
9:48
go now for what in theory what I'm not
9:51
saying you won't, but you can literally
9:53
say, "Right, we're back to petrol now."
9:54
Is the only reason we're going that
9:56
because the government is saying that,
9:57
but you might think, "Well, this is a
9:59
better vehicle." Does that make sense
10:00
with the question that I've asked?
10:02
>> different governments can come in and
10:03
try and move the policies, but to be
10:05
honest, they're trying to move an
10:06
immovable object because the
10:08
manufacturers are already geared up on
10:10
their journey. Now, they might be able
10:12
to delay things by a few years or extend
10:14
things by a few years, but they're
10:16
basically gearing up their manufacturing
10:18
plants. Even in the county where we're
10:20
we're we're in now, we had a huge
10:23
manufacturing plant that was producing
10:24
petrol and diesel Vauxhalls. That plant
10:26
now is exclusively producing electric
10:28
vehicles. Our main Nissan vehicles in
10:31
Sunderland, they're pumping out those
10:33
going to be electric vehicles. The
10:34
manufacturers are already on the EV
10:38
>> And a new government might come in and
10:39
say, "Well, we'll delay this 5 years or
10:41
we'll advance this 5 years." But
10:42
realistically, that isn't going to make
10:44
a difference to what the manufacturers
10:45
>> Right. Last but not least, and cuz I
10:47
don't want to take up any more of your
10:48
time cuz I know you're a very important
10:51
I don't know how far you can answer this
10:52
question as well, but I need to ask
10:57
People all out there want to know is
10:59
let's just say we've picked this beat
11:00
car. We've never reviewed a beat car. We
11:02
picked this beat beat car. Um do you get
11:05
vehicles cheaper than what members of
11:08
the public get them? And then when you
11:11
and they go they've done the lifespan,
11:13
they've got to a certain point, what
11:15
happens with them then? And can people
11:18
turn up at the places where they go and
11:21
>> Uh yeah, so to answer those questions in
11:23
order, yes, we get fantastic discounts.
11:25
We have brilliant partnerships with the
11:27
major manufacturers in the UK. We're
11:29
stood in front of a Toyota here. This
11:31
car was made in the UK at Burnaston in
11:33
Derby. So, we're supporting British
11:35
industry, but equally we have
11:37
partnerships with manufacturers like
11:39
Stellantis that are the
11:40
parent manufacturer for your Peugeots,
11:43
your Citroens, and things like that. We
11:44
have fantastic relationships with those,
11:47
and they are long-term relationships,
11:48
not just the purchase of the vehicle,
11:50
but also the parts that we're going to
11:52
buy through the vehicle through its
11:53
life. What's going to happen with that
11:54
vehicle all the way through the
11:55
training, the diagnostic kit, the
11:57
tooling that we need to buy for these
11:59
vehicles. These are all considered as
12:01
part of the procurement before we're
12:02
buying the vehicles. So, yes, we do get
12:05
a fantastic discounts off off the
12:06
vehicles when we buy them.
12:08
When they get to the end of the life,
12:11
always an interesting question. So,
12:13
one of these cars when it gets to the
12:16
has had a hard life, has had a very hard
12:20
>> one thing I always say is never touch a
12:21
traffic car. Don't go near a traffic
12:23
car. Don't but but people now there's a
12:26
business world out there for people
12:27
buying old school T5s.
12:29
>> They're the collectible ones, but in
12:31
regards to things, people use them for
12:32
TV, film, that sort of thing. But as a
12:34
member of the public,
12:37
>> Well, you could turn up at the auctions
12:38
when this car's finished, it'll have no
12:41
livery on it. All this livery will be
12:43
removed, and the auctions will make that
12:45
car as good as they possibly can.
12:47
They'll clean up the bodywork, they'll
12:48
tidy it up. The car will have another
12:49
MOT test, and it'll be in an end-of-life
12:52
condition. But you're buying a vehicle
12:54
that has had a very very hard life, and
12:57
you're buying it at the wrong end of its
13:00
>> So, caveat emptor, buyer beware. You can
13:02
go to the auctions and buy one
13:05
And are they normal auctions what you go
13:07
to or do you have to go specialist place
13:09
>> we we have again, everything's governed
13:11
by national procurement contracts. So,
13:13
we have normal auctioneers that we use
13:15
up and down the country, and you know,
13:17
all the vehicles tend to end up at the
13:18
same auctions. If you wanted to buy one,
13:20
you could go there and and buy one.
13:22
>> So, just because it says one owner, full
13:24
service history, it doesn't mean it's
13:26
your grandmother that's had that car.
13:28
>> Yeah, it doesn't say one careful owner.
13:29
It just says one owner.
13:31
>> One owner which is the police but 4,000
13:33
drivers, a lot of sweaty ass traffic
13:36
>> And it's been hammered from day one.
13:38
I just want to say thank you for letting
13:40
us know. Thank you for everything you
13:42
>> Uh [snorts] last but not least, is
13:44
Porsche on the list?
13:45
>> Porsche is not on the list yet.
13:47
>> Right, okay. And why, if I'm throwing
13:50
this out there members of the public,
13:51
why is not one company, UK wide or
13:55
worldwide, make traffic cars? Does that
13:58
make sense? So, we have suspension from,
14:01
let's say, Subaru. We have a an Audi
14:03
chassis. We have the engine from
14:05
wherever and we perform this thing. So,
14:08
it's literally driving vroom vroom
14:09
vroom. I'm not saying like a rally stop.
14:12
But it's designed and it's got full cage
14:13
in back. It's all the piping, wash out
14:17
>> And it's just that that thing. It's just
14:19
designed for police, no one else.
14:22
>> To be honest, in the global market,
14:24
we're not as big a player as you think
14:25
we would be in terms of volume sales. A
14:27
car rental company will buy more cars in
14:30
a month than we'll buy in 10 years.
14:32
>> Um you know, we're we're not that big a
14:35
player, bigger customer. I know that in
14:37
years gone by, various manufacturers,
14:39
back in the day, have offered to produce
14:41
a police car that would that would do um
14:44
for the whole vehicle, but it's one
14:45
manufacturer. To be honest, the quality
14:47
of the product of all the vehicles that
14:49
we buy are superb and the highest
14:51
performance vehicles that we buy are of
14:53
such a high quality that designed by
14:56
that manufacturer to operate, as I said,
14:58
at the very edge of their design
14:59
envelope. And we stick with those
15:01
because they are the best cars that you
15:03
can buy. They offer the best value for
15:05
money long term over the whole life of
15:07
the vehicle and they're the most
15:08
reliable. And I'll go back to what I
15:10
said right at the very beginning, safety
15:12
of those officers, safety of other road
15:14
users. That's what it matters.
15:17
>> Thank you very much for supporting.
15:18
>> You're an absolute gentleman. You are a
15:20
fountain of knowledge. If you like
15:21
videos like this or you want to ask some
15:23
questions, put them in the comments
15:25
below and I'll forward them on down the
15:26
line. These vehicles are here today and
15:29
as you can see, the future is changing,
15:30
the future is going electric, hybrid,
15:32
and everything else. So, unfortunately,
15:34
if you don't like petrol engines,
15:36
nothing much you can do about it. So,
15:37
I've always said until that last little
15:40
drip of fuel comes out, I'm going to be
15:42
driving my 2-liter Golf. I do apologize.
15:45
So, if you like it, tune in. More videos
15:46
next time. See you then.
