Gilberto Mendes| T1EP04

I was reflecting as I was taking my steps towards a good thing. Regarding the 16 days of activism against gender-based violence, if my dear guests pay attention, in the interval between November 15th and December 10th of this year, we will be in an annual campaign against gender-based violence.

and it's the 16th day of activism against gender-based violence. So, within this aspect, I'd like to complain to you that my name is Evandro Sigaval, I'm a communicator, but at the same time also a social activist and defender of human rights, with a focus on women's and children's rights. So, I'd like to conquer you

for a poem, and this poem reflects a little bit this reality of violence based on gender that starts from a tender age and often extends to the adult stage. So, allow me to draw your attention, with the permission of the Presidio and all the protocol observed. I was a girl, Uncle Gil, I was a girl when my mother said that I gave her work when I was born.

Chairman,

Mama unemployed remembers only being employed as a domestic employee. Mama dreamed, but so low, that she wanted to see me married to a tall man in the pocket, forgetting about ethics. Mama spoke, but said that money is where the real rhetoric lives. Until one day Mama bought a smartphone and said: "Do you need to enroll in the course of sexual abilities of the exotics?"

In my opinion, mom was right because she had already gotten used to the habit of making mistakes. In a synoptic way. Instead of using the Internet Explorer to investigate the Internet, mom investigated new ways of exploring me through the Internet. Mom was insensitive, she wanted profit, sociopath who turns her daughter into a product. Mom was a fighter, a fighter. It was mom. That's why I don't know any child who hasn't been hungry.

Some are hungry for absent parents, others have the presence of parents replaced by presents, and there are some like me who are hungry for everything, hungry for being born hungry, for being supported by the unsustainability of the remains that fall on the table. But those who are hungry for anger, Uncle Gilberto, brush their teeth for some part of them that was assaulted when they were raped.

When you want to talk about sustainability, remember that this right word has syllables that remind me a lot of sustenance. And it's not just about food that I feed myself, but about hatred for the way you look at me at every moment when my child body, because of puberty, verifies an increase. And that truth is said, uncle, it's not just in this event that you caused me embarrassment.

I was supposed to look at you as a father, not someone who wants to touch me without consent. I do not allow such boldness anymore. Look, after this brief waste of words, denouncing you will be my next argument.

You want to talk about sustainability? Remember the skills that women also have in this society. Yes, talk about equality, but don't forget that my choice is equity. We can even have the same opportunities, but boss, let's agree on the salary, because all this disproportionality. Go on.

I wanted to continue talking about age, but let me change the rhyme. I was the one who got the license, Uncle Gil, but my cousin was hired for the certified ass-wrapped. It's true, nowadays, you can pay for college, even for a tip, you can find it anywhere. You just have to drop out of the internship, devote yourself a little more to the gym, and get to know the internet as if you were wearing a sock. Ina, I'm sorry, Uncle Gil, but it's true.

Mano.

That if gravity were to be serious, they would have told me that virginity is something that never played with mom and dad. That well before I finished eating, I was eaten by dad and mom. Under her impoverished gaze, her daughter died, eagerly for prices while you lived with the price of the grandma.

In the year I tried to be a child, the soap operas told me it was chic to see the same child in love, that in cartoons, in cartoons, kissing is something that society must start to accept, and I accept, I accept that the choice they made was the best way to start making mistakes, to make the right choices, to make the right choices that we need to start making, to finish. In that same year, it was like reading books, it was something of people who went beyond.

And that so-called ultra-advanced society was advancing in a crowd full of nothing. Children, with makeup and makeup, makeup and makeup, painted their nails to see if in that world, not even an adult got in the way. And the "in the way" adults were being made again as children. And nothing else made sense in that year. It was as if children were adults and adults were children who, by year, reduced to years. That's why I'm

in favor of the children. A big round of applause for the children of Moçambique. Thank you very much. It's a deep reflection that I would like each one of us to allow ourselves to do, because when you go to pay attention with some kind of care, they are events, they are narratives that have been happening day after day in our communities and many times because we are busy.

we do not allow ourselves to pay any attention. And I would like you to allow this awareness in the near future, in the sense that if we educate children, we will not need to punish adults. With these words, ladies and gentlemen, I would like to thank each one of you once again for your presence. It is a great honor to be able to receive you here in this space and perhaps in the near future you will give us with your

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Permitam-se captar, permitam-se anotar e permitam-se até colocar questões. É proibido sair daqui com dúvidas. Afinal de contas, boa coisa é esclarecê-las. Senhoras e senhores, convosco, Arena em Voz. Tia Men vai tomar a palavra e vai apresentar o nosso convidado. Uma força de palmas. Muito obrigado. Ladies and gentlemen, bem-vindos aqui ao nosso quarto episódio do Arena em Voz. Sigaval, fechaste.

Bad! Bad! A round of applause! When Sigaval arrived, I asked him if he believed in coincidences or convergences. I'm the kind of person who believes in convergences. I already had, when I opened my podcast, the most pod. One of the people on my list, right in the first ten, was Gilberto Mendes.

It was flowing and I still won. I never had the courage to approach and invite Gilberto. It's the realization of a dream for me today to be here and to be able to talk about this. I don't even know how I'm going to start. You are a bad guy. But I'm not a Siga. Siga is bad. Siga is still coming.

I still have a long way to go, but Gilberto Mendes, man, you are all the respect I have for the figure you are, for what you did, for what you do. Man, legacy you are leaving. This here is a truth that no rubber will erase. Congratulations for the being you are.

and for the things with which you have already given us the pleasure of feeling and living. A round of applause here once again for Gilberto Mendes, please. After a presentation like this, the person wants to cry. The artist, look! Gilberto, so many questions that I have here, but I will also call you Uncle Gil because of Sigaval. Uncle Gil.

You are used to asking questions, being on that side. That's the strangest part. It's easy to ask questions. Being on this side is boring. Imagine how I am. You just think, what is this guy going to ask? Isn't it Naguib? Naguib? Naguib? Leave it Naguib. I'm going to start by wanting to know, Gilberto.

For me, if we had to build a house, a foundation, the pillars of the world of art and culture in Moçambique, you are one of the pillars. You contributed so that today we can say that we have live theater in Moçambique. Man, that's a lot. Explain to us Gilberto, this blood, this passion, all this, for this art, how does it start?

Good evening to everyone. First, I'd like to thank the presence of those few who came because I was here, because I think most of the people came here to have fun and fell. The guy is there, now let's hear it. You saw, Frelimo doesn't play in service. There was a cut of energy here. He went, cut it there so he doesn't say anything. My game is bad. This thing...

This thing of liking art is something that is not explained. We who grew up watching the Nagibs of life, to debunk this here, when you make a presentation like this in front of a master like that, the person starts to say, this guy wants to ask me for a taco, what's going on? Because if the master is there, why is he praising me so much? But it's a matter of life. When I was a kid,

I once read a magazine that my brother brought, a biographical book, about a swimming champion called Mark Spitz. He was Olympic champion in 1972 at the Munich Olympics and later became a film artist. The title was: "Mark Spitz, Olympic champion and film artist". I was delighted with that title and I said: "I will be an Olympic champion and film artist".

So I started training and the dream of making cinema was growing. And when I gave up, I was already making cinema. I started with cinema, not theater. I made "O Vento Sopa do Norte", which was the first full-length film in Mozambique. And then I went to theater. In what year?

"Vento de Sopa do Norte" was filmed in 1984/1985 and premiered in 1986, shortly after President Samora died. And then I entered the theater. But the dream of being a film artist was already missing. I was missing being an Olympic champion. That's the part I failed.

But at least you went to the swimming pool. Yes, I went to the swimming pool. You went to the swimming pool. Yes, I went. At least that title. It's funny. I can say something here that can provoke a "no". Guys, I broke my first national record in 1977. The year I was born. In 1977. December 1977. How many meters? 100 meters free. Congratulations. You see? Gasmal, already! It's funny.

There's something good that I always liked to repeat, I hit my first record in 1977, but that wasn't the good part. All my opponents were white. So I was one of the few who hit white. In a good way. Man, in 1986 you're going to star in the cinema. Your first... How did the casting go? How did you get into the cinema?

At that time, information didn't circulate as much as it does today. Well, this thing about Nyonga is not about today. People talk a lot about Nyonga today because it gave a name. When I was studying at Josina Machel, I had a drawing teacher called Maria Pinto Sá. And she was an actress. Maria Pinto Sá. Maria Pinto Sá. She's still an actress. She has the artist's house on the side. And Maria Pinto Sá was responsible for the casting.

And Maria Pinto Sá was my teacher. And Nyonga started right there. "Go watch a movie." "Ah, teacher, I heard you're going to watch a movie." "I know how to represent." She had never seen me represent, but she sent me to the casting. - She sold you to the casting? - Yes, she sent me to the casting. And in the casting, she was already with me. But it was like that. I did the casting. It's funny, there are also good things. These conversations help us remember some things.

We did the casting in the facilities of the former Ministry of Information and I remember that there were a series of tapes that were being laid out. Cinema tapes. 8mm. And maybe it was one of the things that started to awaken in me the awareness about culture and preservation. The tapes that were being laid out were tapes with images of President Eduardo Mangano. For the trash.

I don't know. I don't know why that was there. There were many images of the time of the National Liberation Army, but there were many images of... I don't know if that's why we had few images of President Mondiane, Urias Simango, after the independence. I don't know. It could have been shut down. Maybe it was shut down too. I think it was shut down.

A coincidence? No, a convergence. It must have been. I got so many tapes and I had a 8mm camera that my father had bought me at Filmarte. And when we put that to work, my sister's father-in-law, Aurelio Manave, once came in and said, ''Turn that off!''

It was a coincidence, really. Another thing. OK, cinema started. After cinema, theater soon? Yeah, theater started in a strange way. Because you were in the cinema, you went fishing for a piece? No. I made the film, then I left the film and started walking from one side to the other looking for another film. But there wasn't that much cinema. So they said, "To keep training, the best place is in the theater, because you work every day."

And I went from group to group until I was invited to be part of Mutumbela Gogo. It wasn't Mutumbela Gogo itself, it was the junior group of Mutumbela Gogo, which was Umbel. Umbel. Umbel. Umbel means seed. So I started rehearsing at Umbel, perhaps also, I don't know, moved by anything, insistence, I don't know. I was going to watch all the pieces of Mutumbela Gogo. They were presenting the piece at 9 o'clock.

One of the days I was watching the play, one of the actors passed out on stage. He passed out, they pretended he was part of the scene, they took the actor out of the scene, they took the actor, they put him in the car to take him to the hospital, but the play was right at the beginning. So Manuela Soeiro remembered that I was in the audience and went to the audience to carry me without rehearsal or anything, to replace Ivaristo Abreu, who passed away recently.

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But you had already watched the play? Yes, I had already watched the play three or four times. It was an emblematic play. You can even know. Knowing from this side and knowing from that side is different. The worst thing is that you have cold actors. When the actor enters the stage, he has to perform a ritual of breaking.

of sensitivity and contact with whatever it is. All the contact we have with the public has always a barrier that allows us not to get into the public's emotion. That's why people laugh and we don't laugh. That's why people think things are jokes and we don't think they are jokes at all and we keep it serious. We have to wear that break shirt. And my colleagues who were on stage, who knew I hadn't rehearsed on that day of my debut,

The guys, every time people left, they would laugh at me and say, "Get us with amateurs." - That was... - Bullying. Yes, it was bullying, but it was good bullying. Because that was bullying that said, "You just came here, you don't belong here. To belong here, you have to go to hell." "Get us with amateurs." I would rather have stopped the show. I don't know why we're doing this. What a joke. I don't understand anything. And that will...

If you're new, you get stuck. You think, "This guy is..." But after a while you realize that you're just there, you're not part of it yet. And I think that's one of the things that made me grow as an actor. It made me grow. It's thinking that we're never good, it's never enough, and people will always want more. That's the step from Mbel to Mutumbe Lagou. That's the step... I mean, after I entered Mbel,

After I joined Mutumbella Gogo, sorry, Bel also stayed before me. I didn't come back. There is no opportunity that you let go. You know, I usually say that God looks at all of us. I often give the example of Lourdes Motola. Lourdes Motola lived in Chamanculo, right? There, in the suburbs, she came here, trained, ran football and whatnot.

Craveirinho took her after running her here in the park of the containers without hope, I mean, the hope was to be a champion there. And God, when he looked at her, he said: "Lord, I'm ready, I'm ready." I said: "I'm ready." I said: "I'm ready." I'm ready and I went. The opportunities we have in life are to catch them, right? The moment passes, the opportunity passes. I usually say that about Venâncio too. I think he lost a moment. A moment, right? He lost, the thing was ugly, man.

Wow!

First-hand here, huh? First-hand. Guys, it's not worth asking for invitations. I know you all will be there. Because we have a box where I have the invitations that I received and the invitations that she received too. We sent everything to a box and told the agency that is dealing with everything: "Send it to all those who sent us, they will be here with us." So, as you sent, you are there too.

Congratulations in advance, may God bless you and may everything be good and better. Thank you. How was it? Did you like it? A statement like this... You don't make men like you used to. Guys, I was a little blank with Gilberto to make this a little more interactive.

As long as there are some questions on this side, I ask you to contribute too. Raise your hand, something, let's make the mic arrive and let's continue doing this. Can I, Gilberto? You can. I'm seeing bad people looking at me with the face of, there's a question I'd like to ask. It's already there.

Gilberto, I want to know something. In those times, 1986, in those years, where you were... Sorry, before you ask the question, don't lose the thread of the question. No, it's fine. When we were chatting up there, Alci, you know Alci, right? Cali. No, not Cali, that's Alci. Cali is the bandit in Si.

He found out about something in 1986. There was supply at that time. He said: "Now there is a lot of hunger!" I said: "Man, there is already hunger in this country!" He said: "No! How now?" At that time you had a supply card and you couldn't eat two fish. It was new to him. They are the millennials. So the question about 1986 has a lot of things. It's a lot.

The first thing I wanted to understand was, at that time, we only had a television, we didn't have the rest. How was it to be in the theater, the role of theater, the plays you did at that time? How was it to be in that medium? At that time we were culturally very rich. As a people? As a people, we were culturally very rich.

The places where we met were places of culture. It was in museums, it was in the library, it was in the cinema, it was in those places. And there's more. At that time, there was no cell phone. So there was no part of, hey, where are you? Let's meet in a room for 15. Everyone in a room for 15 was there. Until when did you run away? At that time, you ran away a lot to South Africa.

I remember having participated in three attempts to escape. Really? Yes. Man, it was... it was a mess. Your intention was to leave? We wanted to leave, we wanted to make a deal that we had to go to the South Africa. To go there again? Yes, but it was like that. Guys, let's go to the market tomorrow. Jump the border. Jump the border.

Attention, the border was being broken and Kruger was not as organized as he is now. So the lions were there. There were people who only found out that they were trying to cross the border because they were caught... - Some rags. - ... with rags of clothes and... But it was like that, right? It was a hard adventure. And I'm telling you this because of the phone. It's because I've combined with my guys three times, me, my brother,

and an old guy, and we would jump. And we were always the guys who were missing. And that was it. We were missing, and the next day or two days later we would take a lot of beatings. Why? Because we were going to run away.

We were structured at that time. Now artificial intelligence does everything. At that time, we said, "There will be five people. One guy will pull the wire and the other will pull it down. The other will pull the gas and the other will pull it down. And then the other one passes. If there were four, you can't do that anymore. And we always made one of those things happen. There was always something that failed.

And the guys didn't go, so we took a beating. But that was already happening while the others were waiting there? No, because that was like this, we left at what time? 3:27 in the morning. It was 3:27 in the morning there. It wasn't 3:27. 3:27 is like there to 3:27. So it could be 28, 29, it wasn't 3:27. And the people obeyed the time, obeyed...

And these things were combined in places like Naguib. You are now seeing Naguib. I'm talking a lot about Naguib because those who are in a situation like this can't stop mentioning a master like Naguib. Naguib was one of the first people who made us think that it was possible for us to take on some attempt to be entrepreneurs. Because Naguib, where he is now,

where the Standard Bank is now. That was on November 10th. On November 10th. That was all Naguib's. It was already Naguib's at that time. You don't see Naguib so quiet and all. He was already a cultural entrepreneur for a long time. And it was in his place. It was in his place where we combined the second or the third attempt at escape. It was there where they conspired. They conspired in relation to everything. It's the center there, right? It was the center there. In the places of culture, it was the centers of...

It was the center of reflection and debate. But it was incredible. At that time, even without cell phones, we could be responsible in this sense. It's funny, you were more fulfilled at that time than now with cell phones. Even now, we can say that I don't have time to give you a signal, take it easy. But you're going to do a scroll of 10 seconds, which is the time enough to write a message and say, look, I can't see, etc., etc.

There was no such thing. But, back to the question that I didn't miss. The theater, the messages, the pieces, how was it to be inserted at that time and the type of messages that we lived in at a time that... Before the pre, right? In which the messages were very directed. In the same way that when there was cinema, there were movies made to project a certain... How were the pieces at that time?

Well, there are two moments. There is a moment, I would say, before Gungú and there is a moment after Gungú. Without pretensionism, without... It's just the demarcation of moments. When I was at Mutumela Gogo, we did many adaptations of pieces by great writers. Great writers. But they were politically correct pieces. They were...

Was there any induced message there? I remember we did a play called "Amor vem" which was a play in which women had sex strikes. Which was the only way to end the war. If men didn't have sex... I remember that. So, probably, it ended... But it was a kind of induced message, I mean, envied. It wasn't critical enough to realize that there was... It was a satire. Yes. When...

We started with Gungú. The second piece we made was Ossu, the Minister. And it was probably the first time we put a minister as a normal person, like all of us. Because at that time, I don't know if you've noticed, here we call the bosses

The boss is Rossi. Rossi means what? God, right? Rossi and Helena. Rossi. It's not questionable. Rossi is not questionable. And it was a little bit this thing that surrounded the leaders that we had at the time. It was the Rossis. Rossi could not have a country father. He didn't seem to be a person who breathed.

And we made the admission of the Prime Minister of the First Party, where we brought... We provoked a little bit this thing of being normal. And then, from then on, there were pieces that were successive, right? And some of them even with some social impact, others with political impact. I remember, for example, that there was a debate in the Assembly of the Republic, where the holidays were to be voted.

the national holidays, so the religious holidays, because the Muslims had claimed that, just as there was Christmas, there had to be the Eid holiday, which was fair. So it was being discussed, let's apply this here to the most expressive religions and such, and we made a piece called "The Dismissal of the Minister", where in one of the scenes

We called all the religions of the country: Bahá'ís, Hindus, Maziones. Each one chose a day. But it was decided that everyone would choose the month of June. So the month of June was removed because the month of June was without days. Eleven months then. And we invited the Assembly of the Republic to go there to watch the play. After they watched it, it was cancelled. It was cancelled. Yeah. Funny, right? How can the theater...

No. You can make reflections, provoke reflections and changes. This was the second piece of Gungu? This was the third piece of Gungu. The first was in what year? The first was in 1992. Ah, let me also extend the time a little. Of course, of course. Gungu was founded in 1992 and from then on it has already made 109 pieces. And it's... So, we're 33 years old.

33 years old. And it's... I'm seeing Jorge Oliveira there. I'm seeing Jorge Oliveira there. Jorge, no? Jorge. Jorge, back there. All bearded. Jorge Oliveira wrote the first reportage of Gungu in 1992. In the magazine Tempo. He was my college colleague. So I think he must have come here to see if... You're telling the truth. If I'm going to tell the truth or not. But what I was saying is that

We have done, since 1992, 109 pieces. And Gungu is, probably, the only cultural institution that presents shows every weekend, throughout the year. For 33 years. Every weekend. Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Sometimes even Thursday. Sometimes Thursday. For example, today and yesterday there was also

Today is Tuesday, today is Wednesday. Tuesday and Wednesday already happened. A dedicated session. The PCI bought us two sessions. One more round of applause, please. 33 years. If applause means no money, that's it. Yeah, he said no money. I want to understand too. How is the logistics behind this? Maintain for 33 years an art like theater working.

What have been the lessons you have learned from this? I want us to decipher this a little bit to try to see what is the lesson that the next artists can come and copy and imitate so that we can have more Gungus spread. It's worth it, clearly. You know that one of the things that leaves me a little frustrated with myself,

My father had a motto, he always said, "What is not right, the blame is always yours. Take it first." "What is not right, the blame is mine. I was the one who couldn't speak well, I was the one who couldn't persuade well, I was the one who didn't do well, I was the one who wasn't well understood." "Never pass the responsibility to others." I hope my wife didn't hear this part. But the blame is always yours, always take it. And I look at theater like this. Theater is such an art,

closed, so... Sensitive. Yes, sensitive, small, it's a niche. And the guys manage to do it with... We manage to give shows every Friday, Saturday and Sunday, every weekend for 33 years. What prevents a dance group from doing the same if the dance has much more appeal, right? Much more will, gives more will...

What prevents us from having concerts every weekend? You look at Brazil and you realize that Brazilian artists are on the plane, they have private projects all year long, it's a show, then they rest for a month, but they're always working and it seems like the thing is always there, and then they're always the same.

When a big movement comes up, it's always the same people. It doesn't multiply. I would like, for example, if there were 20, 30 Gungus. And 20, 30 Bangs. Now there's my cult, which is Ufaia. Nostalgia. Now it's just Ufaia. And one and the other. Sometimes BDQ, Belmiro, is also doing some things. But...

- What's missing? - That driving force. We need 20 bangs, 20 fires, 50 Nagibs. Something is not right here. - Something is not... - Education? Symbols too. We are the symbols we choose. I'm talking about the weapon, right? There's only one country in the world with a weapon on the flag. You should be proud of us. We are not bad. But you are also the symbol you choose.

We are also the only country in Australia that has never had peace. There is always war. When it ends here, it starts there, when it starts there, it starts there. For some reason, for some reason, the others don't have war, we do. People are all quiet. We have to think. We are reflecting, they are deep words. Why have we never had peace? And this is part of that introspection that we have to do culturally, about who we are, where we come from,

Why did we filter certain things? I could put here a series of things that sound like a provocation just for people to get irritated with me. -Please. -Ask why Mozambique is called Mozambique. Mozambique. Mozambique. Which was a sultan, right? It was a sultan because before the Portuguese we were practically colonized, a little bit enslaved by the Arabs.

And the name of the Sultan continues: Musabik, which is our land. Swaziland changed its name when it saw that it was being confused: Swaziland, with Switzerland. So, not to think that that is Switzerland from here, it's for Swatini, Swatini, that's it. Rhodesia also moved to Zimbabwe. And we, we are Musabik. With the flag, a Kalashnikov. With the cap on the flag, the Kalashnikov. Russian. Look.

Russia that made that flag doesn't even have that weapon. We have a guy called Kalashnikov on our flag. So I think our cultural wealth is very... It's very... It's impure. It's not impure because Naguiba is pure.

I'm seeing people like that.

Right now, after the demonstrations, there's an atmosphere like... You know when something is about to explode? That... suspense. And there are people saying: "It's all under control." You can see that there's fire down here, there's gas down here, and people are there waiting. So we are... And it's with culture that you change that. It's with culture. Because today you take a 20-year-old kid

and you want to talk about who we are, where we come from, where we want to go, 50 years of independence, where we are, where we arrived, and where we want to be in the next 50 years, it gets complicated. They send you to the post office and ask if you have TikTok. 50 years is a lot. This question hurts me when I think about the answer to myself.

But, there you go. Does anyone have a question? Let's go. I think Naguib wants to pick up a little more. No, it's her. Hello, good evening everyone. Hello. My name is Jessica. Can you get up? I can. Sorry. My name is Jessica and I'm a customer of Teatro Gungo. No, you're an assistant. You can't be a customer. You're an assistant.

And actually my question was... We always saw theater as one of the few spaces where there was freedom of expression.

Because it was the place where we could reflect a lot, due to the criticism that was made not only to the system but also to the State. Attention, criticism does not mean that we are against it, but it makes us reflect. And suddenly the Excellency passes to a position that is within a system. I would like to know what was the personal impact for you,

and professionally, because it was always the face of Gungu. And the other question was, since the blame is always yours, why don't we have 20 Gungus? What has Teatro Gungu done to continue other generations of Teatro Gungu? Thank you. - Jessica, you're the best. - Jessica is the best. I'll start with the last one.

Why don't we have 20 Gungus? Let me just say one thing. In the well-loved novel, Odorico said, let's leave the meantime and go straight to the end. So, the Gungu has 145 actors. 145 actors. It was supposed to do I don't know how many groups of 6, 7 actors. But that's us trying to...

receive what the market has. That's why we have this number of pieces. We always have to create and put actors on stage. But that's a good question to ask, especially the Academy. We have a Faculty of Theatre that trains about 20 to 30 graduates per year in theatre, in cinema. And you ask: "Where are these people?"

And I answer: "Are you at Banco de Moçambique? Are you at the AT?" The important thing is to have the license to then go and try, or because there is no job offer, perhaps it is time for the Academy to start training managers, because there are few theater managers. Chairman was asking how you manage a theater company for so long in a way

sustainable and consistent. It's very complicated. There were times when I had to put my hand in my pocket to be able to sustain the theater. In fact, Jorge saw the first time Gungu gave the shows, the first chairs that were in the room came from my mother's room.

and we were slowly rehabilitating the theater room as we sold tickets and I was getting a gig here, another gig there. But it's not easy. Just to give you a terrifying sample, we are a country with 34 million inhabitants and we only have two movie theaters, one in Glória and another in Tete.

For a country with 34 million inhabitants, it's serious that you only have two cinemas. We are a country with 34 million inhabitants and we have two rooms, at least the ones that are more visited or that are more consistent, which are the avenue and our room. Then you also have the Scala, from time to time.

then you have the Casa da Cultura on the side, but you should have 5 or 6 theatre rooms for how many millions of inhabitants? So I think there is some work that has to be done at the academy level too. The academics have to think and have to make the projection of where we want to go and guide, not fill the market of graduates, but fill the market of workers.

Going to the first question, which one was it? The impact. The impact of me, a great critic, having gone in there. Well, there was a first impact. The Mambas didn't lose anymore. It's that games don't win only on the field. You start playing a game off the field. I think it continues. We have lost. Maybe we are doing it the same way. But, leaving the joke aside...

I remember once Muammar Gaddafi wanted to leave the African Union, the OUA at the time. And the president, I think it was Mandela, who discouraged him to leave and said that the best way to change things is to be inside. And my party, which is Afro-Democrats, has a very hard heart of turtle, you see? If you bite it from the outside, it has no effect. Sometimes you can get a part of the skin before it...

to enter inside, but if you don't do things inside, things don't change. And as you said, it's not to do harm, but to try to help find the right path. And mainly the path with the people.

It's for the people who govern, not for the people. If people are unhappy with something, even if it's wrong, if people want that wrong thing, the governor has to give what the people want, because it's for the people who govern. Then the people can say: "Oh, ok, no, we were wrong" and change course. And that's what made me go to politics. It had a negative impact.

And if they invited me to go there again, I think I would say no. Why? First, I didn't have a belly. And now there is a disturbance here that has been coming out. Second, I stopped paying attention to the theater. And when I returned to the theater, it was all over the place. But it wasn't all bad. I hooked my wife. So, although I knew her...

In that moment of weakness, the person who took me out of the pit I was in was my fiancée, whom I met there, at the Council of Ministers. The funny thing is that when we were there at the Council of Ministers, she didn't even look at me. She was there looking at me like... And she was one of the people who were critical of me, because she is from the State and I am not from the State. She was one of those people who said: "Go and get these artists here who don't understand anything about..."

And it was true, I didn't understand anything. There are things that are forbidden to say because when you are there, then we have to stay two years without speaking. It's two years, right? It's two years. But I'm going to talk because I speak. At the time of Covid, everything was closing, right? And these guys, members of the government who belong to the state, are very diligent in protecting the people and they told them to close everything.

Restaurants have to close, you can't open anything, churches have to close, mosques have to close, museums have to close. And I was the only one in there to argue with this girl. My wife included.

"But why are they closing? The restaurant is an open space." "It's just to say that there are fewer people." "The museum, the paintings are hanging on the wall." "We're all wearing masks. What's wrong with seeing a painting?" "No, we don't know how the virus is, just by looking at it." So I was discussing with my head, with the head of state. And this guy is saying: "This guy is crazy, he's going to be fired tomorrow."

We would just say: "Shush, shut up, enough, shut up!" But maybe this irreverence, in relation to your question, made me stay in government for a long time, because my wife didn't stay long. - Two mandates. - They knew she was very obedient. But, of the good things, there were some things in there that could be changed.

to change the course. But there was one thing we couldn't control. It was the phenomenon of Venance. That was not good. Imagine if you were at home and you couldn't go to work. Imagine us, who had to go to work where you were fighting. That was not good.

Ladies and gentlemen,

So the question you are going to ask is this: A little bit good was sour. A little bit good, a little bit not so good as that. Mike, there, please. But wait, before the question gets there, while Mike gets there, I'll leave one. Today, Gilberto, knowing what you know,

"Having gone through what you went through, knowing the system, having the opportunity to be there, if you had an opportunity today, a blank sheet, bro, you have 30 days..." "I'll be out of the question, bro." "Let me finish. Then you answer: you have 10 days

with a blank sheet to do whatever you want. Don't do that. Wait, let Nogueira ask, then I'll answer. Don't do that. I wasn't going to ask a question. Good night, Gelo. Good night, people. Good night.

I was making a small remark when he asked why the culture was like that, why it wasn't invested, why it wasn't... In Brazil this happens, in Brazil that happens. I was in Brazil twice, of the two times I was there for six months, so it was almost a year. It means that I was in São Paulo and I was in Bahia. And one of the things I found when I arrived in Bahia... Let's have dinner like this, normally.

And when the bill arrived, I was the one who paid the bill. Many times I invited other artists. And the artists fought to keep the receipt. "The receipt stays with me, the receipt stays with me." It happened once, it happened twice, and I asked: "Why this fight to keep the receipt?" "Explain that to me." "There is a law here in Brazil, which is the Law of Encouragement to Culture." "What does that mean?" "We can pay the VAT here."

All of us here can pay IVA. But have any of you ever gone to the financial sector and asked for IVA back? No. Never. So Brazil created a law that culture and health could be paid with receipts. You would take a collection of receipts, you would go to the cashier, you would deliver the receipts, you would give them X, they would keep the receipts and give you the ticket.

And then those receipts were reverted to culture. Those vases were reverted to culture. So what did that do? It made all the people in Brazil start demanding receipts again, because there was a value.

Because you could go to the doctor or you could go to the pharmacy and pay with receipts. All receipts that you could put together, anyone, as long as you had that amount, you could go and buy the medicines you wanted. Or you could go to any showroom. So that was the first back I had. How is it possible for a receipt to have financial value?

What did that do? It made the culture go down a big boom. That came from a law called the "law of incentive to culture". I discussed it with Gilberto Gil and other artists who said that, look, one of those receipts that they collected for culture, that was divided into cinema, samba, this, that, that, that, and that money went directly to the incentive to culture.

So I was delighted with this law. I went to get the law, I asked where I could get the law, we had to give her all the laws, I don't know what, I brought it here. And I went, I won't say the name of the minister, but I went to the Prime Minister's office, I made an appointment and said, look, this is fantastic, because no one else was going to buy, no matter what, on the street, without receipt.

Now, if it was mandatory, even a nut cake that you can buy on the street or a cake that you can buy in a store had to be receivable because it had economic value. So we would end up with the informal, first. Second, culture had to be encouraged, there had to be a lot of money for culture. Well, I won't go on because later they will pay all my bills and I'll be out. And we're still like this. That's why we fight many times

We bring examples from outside, but then it doesn't work. So it's more a matter of political will, not a matter of what we want. The councilor is there. Yes, the councilor is there. But this, in fact, even there in Brazil, the receipts themselves,

they don't go to a central place, they go to the prefectures. To the chambers. To the chambers. To the governor. Exactly. The municipal chambers. And each artist makes his project, presents it to the chamber, and the chamber approves and supports that project. That's why there are many free shows.

There are many shows in Brazil, in every neighborhood, in every place, in every point. There are always shows. Why? Because they are supported by the city hall, by the law to encourage culture. So it is necessary to take these examples and start thinking, not copying, but adapting our reality here. So it is a matter of...

of political will to do things. When we don't have political will, then things don't happen. So it was more to give a hint to what you said, Gil, about why it doesn't happen. Naguib is a gentleman. Great, applause, please. Naguib is a gentleman. He didn't want to say that directly to the mayor, so he said it like this. The mayor is ours. Let's see who takes the receipt there in the table.

But taking advantage of what Naguib said, I wanted to leave you here some words of hope, maybe even gratitude. I am in a position today where I believe that we, despite the difficulties, of everything, today we can say that we have many people, many artists, many protagonists working, even daily, tirelessly,

so that we have more art, more culture, more... We are not yet where we would like to be, but today I already look with more hope, I already look with more feeling of... It's not total satisfaction, but if I know, for example, what I want to do on the weekend, look for something related to Ed Encontrar.

So, we're not so bad. No, we're not bad. Otherwise we wouldn't be here. This is an initiative, but in these stages, in this arena... No, in everything in itself, the power of being here, talking about this, being able to debate without censorship, without anything, is already a great advance. Back to your question. Before the question.

The question was: if I had 20 days of white paper to solve the problem. And they said that I... White paper, man? I would go get dopas. And they would say: "Do what he says." Now each one will look for something that is... No, no, no, explain. I want you to deconstruct this thought a little. No, sometimes we don't understand. Sometimes the way people talk...

It doesn't reach the point... Sometimes the offense can smell, the... The way it's spoken. Yeah, the way it's spoken.

And sometimes, I gave you the example of Dopas, I could give you the example of whoever it was, but for example, Dopas, who is a person that we all go over every time he smokes and drinks something, he gets spoiled. He says things that are real. - Lucid. - Yeah, they're lucid. - Sometimes he needs to be lucid to say lucid things. - No, sometimes you need to take some to have the courage to speak, that's courage.

Not everyone laughs and says they're right, but no one repeats it. And the Doctores are right. It's not for nothing. I'm from Frelimo, for example. I was in the government. I was with people who have been there for 49 years. 48 years. It's not possible to send them in 48 years. There are no new ideas.

It may seem pretentious or it may seem bad-natured, but it's not being bad-natured, it's being rational. At some point you have to dedicate yourself to your children, your grandchildren. You can't go from the sidewalk and say: "I swear to dedicate all my energies to the sidewalk." The problem is that you are clapping and this is going to cost me.

But guys, it's one of those things that you look at and say: "It's not the way we think we are there." It doesn't represent us. Yeah, it's not the way we think. Doupas says: "I would kill all those old men." It's not that he wants to kill old men. Literally. Yeah, literally. What he's saying is: "Guys, leave the others doing their thing, because when you came in, you were the same age as them."

President Chissano, when he took office as minister, he was 20 something years old. The oldest in government was President Samora, when he was 39. When they say that young people are now in power, no, not now. In the past, President Samora, at 39, was the oldest. The rest were a gang of whores, full of ideas, who had gone to fight, who had brought independence, and who brought the idea of the new man.

- -

You know, I saw a video that was circulating on social media, where a citizen addresses exactly this point. He says that for you to be a member of parliament or something, you have a minimum age. No, you don't need to. To leave, you should also have an age, right? No, you don't need to. You know, I don't agree with that part. Why?

Sometimes they say, I saw them criticizing Comis, who took office in parliament. Man, old people also have the right to have someone to represent them there. They are part of society or not. Who is going to look at the rights of the elderly? And then they also transmit a certain experience.

There is a certain experience that they have, a baggage that they have, and that is useful for the people. We can't use things... Also this age joke, saying that now is older, younger... It's when the person fits in, you create the profile according to you. It has to be a person... The people who are going to enter there have to wear a white shirt, a blue coat, with a white pin here like this. And they have to be bald.

I mean, you're creating a profile, taking into account your fit there. - And a boyfriend. - And a boyfriend! So, I think... - I think... - Hey, let's give a hug to Dopas. Dopas, let's give you a hug, man. - He's still with his Lusso now. - He doesn't hug much either. He doesn't hug much. If he feels very hugged, he will exaggerate. Hey, it's hard to say this, but it's a sign. - Someone wants to talk. - Someone wants to talk there.

Well, maybe to escape a little bit from this whole issue of politics, people want to know a little more about the human being, about the person, right? So, I heard you talking about Brazil, about the soap opera, Mr. Naguib also talking about the experience there, and what I would like to know, as a half-half-Mosambican Brazilian,

Back then, when you started making your first films, what were your inspirations? What were the films you saw? Because I know that you didn't have much access to television. What was your inspiration from the past?

the soap operas that he mentioned and all that. And if you still have these inspirations, what are they? I watched this, I watched that. Then, what is your relationship with God? Because every now and then you see him in the church. Every now and then we see each other. Parochians and all that. What is your relationship and if you bring this to your work? And the third question, a suggestion that comes from Brazil too, which is open rehearsals.

So, for example, in an environment like this, you take a short of your piece and put the actors to rehearse the piece in an environment like this, live. It failed, it failed, it starts again. So, as if it were something more fun, where they do rehearsals, open to the public, of a piece that is still going to debut. So, as soon as the rehearsals are closed,

I'm a believer in God. I've always been religious. I got married in a church. I was baptized. And now I have a... My bride has a...

I'm getting into her core. You see? I'm getting into her core. So my relationship with God is very close, because that's where all the forces are sought. We are what we are. We are matter, but He is in charge of things. Now, I also play with religiosity and faith.

I think it's a joke, this thing of the propagation of faith that we have been watching lately, where we have pastors in every corner. And then I think God shouldn't be the same. Because... No, it's not the same. There are some who are privileged, who are always touched, and others who are not.

For example, the pastor sends something and there's something like... This is a privileged person. God played and he falls. What scares me is that it's poor. God only plays poor there. I would like to see... Pedro is here? Pedro, have you already left? I would like to see a banker being played. The PCE of Abça. And he...

It doesn't happen. He already has God in him. I don't know what happens to... to... to that, just to reach... just to reach the poor. Maybe faith is different. So, I have this connection, conscious, with... with what is... what you can believe and what you can't believe. The question... You have a contact without intermediaries. That's it. The inspiration for... Cinema. For cinema. In my time,

I'm saying "in my time" because I think I'm one of the oldest people here. In my time, the games weren't TikTok, it wasn't WhatsApp, it wasn't anything. It was culture, as I was saying. And we had the privilege and the luck to have all kinds of movies. If I start saying here some movies that we watched in the past, Naguib, Jorge Oliveira and some people here will start to shed tears. Do you remember Sandokan? The Malady Tiger?

Sandokan. The rhythm of happiness. When people started traveling, we had movies from all over the world. Today we consume a lot of American movies. One after another, a European movie and so on. But we were romantic at that time because Indian movies were consumed a lot here. And Indian movies are the most romantic movies that exist. If I ask the young people here, how many Indian movies have they seen?

You're laughing. The movies were so impressive. It was a romantic movie. No kiss and no touch. They didn't kiss or touch in the movie. But the movie was romantic. Everyone cried. How many people got into the movie? That thing of taking the movie to the movie theater. And every time something happened, you just looked like this.

As they say, without talking. The hang-ups at that time happened like this. And they were films that inspired us, even in the chat, because nowadays people start dating when they get married. Are we dating already? Not at that time, at that time, the lady had a chat. And the lady didn't answer you right away, she said: "I'll think about it." Man, those were the 24 longest hours.

that she went to think and the worst was she get there and say no a cover Man, nowadays with a piano everyone dances with everyone I'm from the time when you crossed the room to go ask a lady to dance in her hope to say yes because if she said no you would also have to cross again So there was a lot of inspiration, a lot of things to inspire

So, films were all kinds. We saw Indian films, Russian films, Yugoslav films, American films, Elvis Presley films, Superman films, we saw everything. I think this miscellany of access to culture gave us this global vision, even without having a television. And we watched television in a circle, which was another good thing.

For example, here, in those times... - Cuxacanema and all that. - Yes, we watched Cuxacanema in the cinema. Cuxacanema was something that happened before the movie started, which was the newspaper, the news.

The events of the week of the country. It was about 15, 20 minutes of Cuxacanema, and then the film came. It was brainwashing. It wasn't brainwashing, it was the way we knew the other provinces. Because there was no information. But television, for example, there was a small television here, from Voxon, right? And this, more than a thousand people to watch a television in black and white.

That was nothing else. It was passion and inspiration. In the end, you didn't even hear the Paraguaçu people talking. But as the people laughed, you also... You didn't know what it was, but you were inside. You were part of it. And then the phone came.

that killed everything, television, the film industry, the cards, everything. But do you know a scene Gilberto? I don't even know when it was, maybe even in the 90s and a few years ago, we were here in the city of Maputo, we had about 10, 12 movie theaters. All of them were working, Gil Vicente, Olympia, Continuadores. The auditor heard the first room, right? Gil Vicente.

Gil Vicente, man. That is a showroom, until today. It's close to the municipality. The municipality already has a project. The municipality is working. The council? They are working. The microphone will arrive there. We have 43 cinemas. At the national level? Only 3 are working. 40, look at that. But this is all church, right?

Or the Chinese supermarket. Yes, many things changed. Some became supermarkets, others became churches. There should have been a revolution, something like what happened at the time of the nationalizations. They came back to force, saying: "Man, leave it there, we want it back to the culture." I don't know if that would work. I think it should have been... Today, for example, cinema can no longer be practiced in those rooms. Today cinema is smaller, more...

more modern, with a different design. But it's also no use doing things by decree. If after you start, you don't know what to do with the thing. This happened a lot here with the nationalizations. A lot of things got ruined because we took it and then we put Mr. Costa, who was the head of the machines, he will direct the company.

foreign

I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, but I am.

I also had a question, I was here delighted, of course. We are thirty-something million. Thirty-four. And we have three cinemas. I am a businesswoman of culture. It really, really touches what you talked about today here. I think it's very political, very political will. Gilberto has already been there. And the question I have, because I...

I have and I don't have, I'm 45 years old and Gilberto will understand me because he started as a cultural activist, artist and went to business and went to politics. Is it possible to go up to that level of you having the power, in my point of view,

political decision-maker, to take any measure for the culture when you are there. I have this thing in me, I think many times because I've been in this area for more than 20 years and I have the DJs, the musicians and I want to do things and I think, if you try to go up to a

a little higher level, will you be able to do more? Because we will not be able to have eight banks. Unfortunately, we don't have any more. Because we don't have MCL anymore, with that economic power that it had at that time. Let's not be fooled. The bank did something that today is no longer done. All the MCs of the radios and televisions received. The money that the bank received from MCL, he distributed it to everyone.

And today that doesn't exist anymore, there is no such thing as money. - Is there not? - No, there isn't. Gilberto, there isn't. - Can I ask you something? - My question goes to you, Gilberto. The companies, and I talk a lot, you talked about Pedro, the banker, who has already left. What benefits do they have in supporting culture? Where do they earn? They always earn, the bank always earns.

So, how do they win in supporting culture? Naguib spoke about Brazil here. It is necessary. I questioned a lot, and it was talked a lot in Brazil, about the quota for the Afro-descendants to have access to universities. And everyone said: "Why does it have to be something that is instituted in the law, that black people have to have access to 20% to enter the university?" It should be something

as white, as mulatto, as all the others. But no, there is a law, it has to be there and it has to be by law. And I'm an apologist of that. Because if it's not like that, there's no such thing. It's lobbies, it's schemes, it's... And I think that here, whether you like it or not, it's a bit like that. There has to be a law, it has to be written somewhere, that companies have to do, have to donate.

There has to be a benefit in IVA, I don't understand anything about accounts and benefits, but there has to be a benefit for the company to know that at the end of the year it debits 5% of its profit because it sponsored a cultural event here, there and there. Do you understand?

And my question, excuse me, is about... In the time you were in there, was it easy? Because I know you are an artist and you wanted that. Did you manage to do anything about it? What I was saying...

- My grand... - Can I speak? Sura, what I was saying... Let me answer first, otherwise I forget. What I was saying when I asked if there was no money, is that I had the possibility to work in another sector, which was not the cultural sector. And Sura, if I tell you how much money it takes to move the mambas,

You won't tell me that there's no money. And, look, I'm saying this with a bit of grief, because you also have a lot of forces that hold you. You have, to move the mambas, a certain verb. Say how much, Gilberto. It's a lot. No, say it. A certain, minimum amount. It's not said because I have those two years in which I can't say much. You move a lot of money with the mambas.

You have a Mambas strike before they play. Then you have an athlete who will compete in a competition and becomes champion of the world, African champion of the world, and who doesn't receive a third of what an athlete who lost in the Mambas receives. Here the question is not political. Here the question is social. Try not to give to the Mambas. People don't want to know if Alcindor is champion of the Mambas.

If the girls from Volleyball are champions of Africa or not. If the hockey team won something. People want to know if the Mambas will play and if Dominguês is there. And you already paid. You already gave the prize before the game. There is a prize to go to play in the Mambas and there is a prize to win. But when you go there, you already win. Winning or not?

A young woman from boxing who goes to the walls, takes many walls, doesn't have that privilege. And the worst thing is that the nation doesn't mobilize for that. No one defends an African champion, a world champion, and there are many that we have here. But the great achievement is that the mambas can't lose. And the mambas lose. The other time I had a meeting with them, in one of the strikes, and I asked them, "But why are you doing strikes?"

And I took a picture of those girls from boxing. You see these girls? They wear a wall on their face. Walls on their face. And they are champions. And they don't do the things you do. Men. Men of barbarity. So, it's not that there is no money. The money migrated. Or the priorities migrated. In the past, you had an MCL, a Vodacom, who had a lot of interest in culture.

and they invested a lot. But there was also a lot of banditry. There was a lot of extra money. There was a lot of things that didn't go so well. And there were cuts. But these cuts happened on the culture side, because on the sport side, they continued to happen. Not to the extent that it should have happened, but they continued to happen. So here I have two measures. In relation to what is changing, being in there, in my sector,

I was five years old. Changing a law doesn't change from here to here. It's a process that comes from the past. When I got to my position, I found work done by my predecessors and continued to be able to approve a sport law. It's not my law, it's the law of the entire staff, since it was the Ministry of Youth and Sport that passed to the State Secretariat, it was approved in my mandate, luckily mine,

But it could be from another person who was there. And we have the law of the masonry, which exists. I rehabilitated my room with a little bit of the law of the masonry. The theater room. The theater room. The problem is that we, and Naguib spoke here when I was laughing about the issue of receipts, is that we don't complain about the receipt, the IVA, and no one is interested in us going there to complain, because it's an extra receipt.

It's an extra receipt for the public sector, for the farm. You can see how many companies are waiting in line for a refund. Imagine if you went to the restaurant and wanted your 5 meticais. It would be complicated. But there is the law of the mucinato. And the law of the mucinato gives this possibility. In fact, our law of the mucinato is a law of the mucinato...

It's prohibitive, it's one of those laws that the state can go bankrupt because of the use of the law itself. It was made in the time of Marcelino dos Santos, when the country was socialist. It's a law that protects many artists. But the way you make the law of the Senate work is something amazing. The law of the Senate works in a very simple way. And I'll explain.

You want to do a certain event, a certain work. You go to the sponsor and say: "I would like to rehabilitate the..." The FEMA. The FEMA. And the sponsor says: "Okay, I'll give you the money for that, but you have to get the letter from the Ministry of Culture

I'll present this to the finances. You go to the Ministry of Culture, the Ministry of Culture says to the Ministry of Culture, look, ABSA will give me 5 million dollars to rehabilitate FEMA. Here's ABSA's promise. I need the letter

to present it to the APSA. And the Ministry of Culture says: "We confirm that the APSA will give the SURA 5 million dollars for the rehabilitation of the FEMA, because this amount will have to be deducted from the taxes that the APSA has to pay to the finances." And they give you that document. You go to the APSA, the APSA gives you the document and the APSA gives you 5 million. When the APSA has to pay taxes, it takes that letter and gives it to the finances. Who said that the finances are interested in that?

You take the APSA letter, go to the Ministry of Culture, the Ministry of Culture takes the letter, sends it to the councilor,

of the culture of the municipality, the mayor says: "It's not my competence, return it to the Ministry." The Ministry says: "Oh, it's not your competence?" "It must be Matola's, send it to Matola." Matola says: "It's not my competence, return it." "It's not? Whose is this competence?" "Send it to Cabo Delgado." Meanwhile, you have forgotten that the FEMA, in fact, the FEMA, meanwhile, has already been privatized and your project has already... So when you get there, in fact, when the process reaches your hands, it's over.

So, I mean, I say 5 million, as you say, and it's 5 million meticais. The problem is that it is very difficult, with the finances as they are, with the State, with the financial problems as they are, to access these things. But we also need to understand that the fault is not only with the State. And we sometimes think that the fault is always with the State. How many times

We arrive to get a job and they ask: "With IVA?" And you say: "Without IVA, how much?" If I know I don't have the service back because of that... No, you have the service because you are buying the service. What you are doing is cutting... That wait that I know is for the night finances to have my touch back. No, but life doesn't work like that. Because when you walk on the street, the street is lit.

But how much do you pay for the energy? No, but you see, that's your problem. You're asking how much you pay. You want to walk on the street and not pay, you don't want to pay for the energy. But you want to have the street lit. It's that we sometimes also... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We... We...

If someone comes here and says: "Let's start organizing the country" many people will have integration problems here. People are used to that scheme. The nyongas? Yes, there are people who are very interested in things continuing like this, in a way, to tear it apart. And there are those who want things to be right. But there is a huge battle here. For example, just to close this part here, and you don't look at me like a type of...

It has already been washed. They charge us garbage tax, they don't charge us garbage tax. And radio too. And radio. Among others. Gil. Let me finish, just a little bit. Garbage tax. People complain a lot about the garbage tax. Don't they complain? There are people who say, but I'm paying garbage tax, the car doesn't even pass through there. But no one said the car was going to pass through there.

The garbage rate. Do you make garbage? Or don't you? Is there anyone who doesn't make garbage? No, we all make garbage. We all make garbage. Recyclable or not, collected or not, we all make garbage. There is no garbage collection rate there. It's not written garbage collection rate. It's garbage rate. Look, Naguib. Gil, sorry. You know, I... I was a little...

I was a little shocked with your question, to say that this youth today is cowardly and does not fight. You know, I never saw... I followed the 50 years of independence, I was 21, 22 years old when I saw independence, I mean... But I never saw a youth as aggrieved as this youth today. I never saw. In our time, we wanted to take a step, we were afraid to go to education. We didn't say anything, we were politically correct.

Anything we wanted to talk about, we didn't talk about because we shouldn't. Today you have a young people, aggrieved. Today I have the pleasure, you know, of seeing this youth, you said it was a cowardly youth. Unfortunately, the man is already dead. What is the artist, the rapper, that appeared now in the last times, that unfortunately died? Like a Zagaia. Have I ever had a Zagaia in my time? Are you asking or are you talking? No, I'm talking.

I was once with a kid like Alci, who comes in and is an influencer. I was once, at 70 years old, I must say that I'm a fan of Sigaval, that kid who's there. He's a poet, a rapper, a declamator, as never before in our time. How can someone say that today, the youth, the youth today is trying to adapt

by the current times, as you said we were going to watch TV in the neighborhood at that time. Even because one day you have to invite Juca Vicente, who I gave an interview in 1985 with Chacanema, with Chacanema, he was filmed by Juca Vicente, one day you have to invite him. Today the times are the times of cybernetics, today you even have the AI, artificial intelligence, today the times are different and the ways of fighting are also different.

They are not the same forms of fighting that existed at that time. We heard a kid, sorry to call you a kid, Sigaval, my boy, I'm a fan of Sigaval, from here you know him. Someone who can make that poem all by himself without reading it. Once in my time, we declared "Ruizia, you too", but you had to have a cable in front of you. The kids are tough today. I've never seen such an expressive youth.

"You are so aggrieved with the youth you have today. Once I thought, when the kid was saying 'Can I come in?' There is the 'chivambo' going to the Café com Letras 25 years ago. I treated it like a child. Today we have the 'chivambo' to move the crowd here. Today you are a reference of the children. You are sitting there being interviewed. Times are different.

We have to be humble, to say that times are different, space is for others. And to be humble in our space and try to be from today, to be from the present, so that we belong to all times. Do you understand? It's not a criticism I'm making, but with all honesty, I'm defending this youth, this youth that fights with this misery that surrounds us and has a conscious fight.

A fight that you see that this fight has head, trunk and limbs. I mean, it's hard for us to try to contradict. This kid who is here, who is a councilor, here for 20 years, I don't know how long it was, I went to do a painting workshop at UEM, Universidade Eduardo Mondo Lado, and a kid came to say, "Mr. Naquiba, can I paint with you?"

You can, son, paint there. Take it on the brush. One day he came to me and said he was the mayor of the city of Maputo. He's here, he's here next to me. A child that I met. I met him when I was 17, 18, 19 years old. Sublinis, professor, doctor. Professor, doctor, today. So we're saying that the youth hasn't grown? Can I answer, Naguib? Yes, sir. Thank you. We're also talking, Naguib.

Older people, we have to respect them. And they're right, older people are always right. But we have to know how to measure things, not only when they hit our backyard. We're now saying that youth is aggrieved because there was a movement in the city of Maputo, in the main capitals. Our country has been at war for years, Naguib, with weapons.

Not with... But one reason is weapons. Today, young people don't use weapons. Can I finish? The times are different. There was a time when young people left here for Tanzania, for I don't know when. Those young people who came back with the country's independence were young, aguerridos.

We can draw a parallel between the one who decided to take up arms and put his life at risk and the one who decided to leave, for example, because he was very upset with the system. I understand the scope of the word "revolt" because people are talking about it, they are aggrieved.

But this aggrieved has to be conducted, it has to be well conducted. It can't be just because people decided that now they can paralyze and pay taxes to move from one place to another, that young people became more aggrieved.

I give the example of those who went to the National Liberation struggle, I give the example of Matsangaíça who went to war, I give the example of Diakama who continued and brought multipartyism, and I give the example of all of us who every day continue to hammer. When I asked the question about cowardice, it was not about action, because in terms of action we have already shown that from here to here, glue to glue, people can turn things around.

But it's not that turn we're talking about. Many times, even probably some of the cowards, we're the oldest ones. We always inhibit others and teach them to obey and not to leave the box. These young people have artificial intelligence today, Naguib. These young people have a phone that does everything we needed, 20 or 30 machines to have. A writing machine. Before the computer, a writing machine.

the ink from the typewriter, the VHS tape to see what it was, that tape of music, those are times in which we practically, for these young people, lived in the Stone Age. So today there is much more possibility of making a lot more change than in the past. And without having to leave a lot. Especially if this change is made in our favor.

No. So let's see the following. The armed struggle... I still haven't finished, older man. Thank you. What I think, and when I ask the question about why we are cowards, is because our country is a super rich country. Our country, it is usually said that you are masking a bike, you hit the bike, a tree of bikes is born. It is so rich, so rich.

so capable and with such a well-educated youth. There is no better youth, there has never been such a well-educated youth in the country as this one we have now. But that's not enough just to have the training, it needs to mean change and I'm going to my training area. In theater, today in Moçambique, you have about 80 graduates. 80 graduates. What does this mean for theater?

We have huge problems in all other professions, in all other areas. We have Professor Osvaldo who gives classes at the university, continues to train people. But how many agronomists do you have in the city of Maputo? They don't give a hand to the masses.

That's what I'm talking about. About us taking care of things. And that's not about politics, it's not about being in government or being in charge of government. It's about each one of us doing what Naguib did. Naguib is the only Mozambican who has exhibitions, who has works of art in the United Nations. The other could have been in Louvre, the other could have been somewhere else. What I think is that we are very accommodating.

The tools we have today are much more powerful than the tools we had in the past. And we could, at will, transform this country. You know, the day we decide to get into the political post and each one of us starts doing his part, doing his thing, you'll see that we'll have a better country. Forgetting the politicians, people are always focused on... "I want to be a minister, I want to be..." "I was there, it's not nice, that..."

You know, Gilberto, this political discussion, just to say that it's where people think they're at the top, man. Can I tell you something? Say it. Look, I have there on that table some of my colleagues, an old Secretary of State, I have here my wife, who was an old minister. Let's say one thing, folks. With the level of expenses that we have today in life, my salary and her salary as a minister, it didn't reach us to make 15 days of our lives. So there's an illusion here.

that there, people are well, there is a regalia, you know? No, that's not where I wanted to go. It's hard to forget politics. It's where the funds come from, where the authorizations come from. Do you think Chivambo took funds from Coisa to create this space? How many Chivambo already?

foreign

There was the armed struggle, which was people who were aggrieved. Okay, balance: 700,000 dead during the armed struggle. There was the struggle of the Lhakaama, for democracy or for the Red Party, because I don't believe in this crap. 1.1 million dead people. 4 million displaced people. The whole country completely destroyed. Schools, bridges, roads, everything.

Is this the smart way that also motivated the old people to go fight? Can I answer, Naguib? No, no, wait. Let me answer. As the day is mine, I'm asking. Naguib, there are questions that are not appropriate. You and I, you as the oldest, we can have a moment where we discuss some things. My question is simple. Did a million people need to die and such?

People to... To democracy. To accept that this murder was accepted in the Assembly of the Republic? It wasn't necessary. It was necessary? Of course not. So? Of course not. Why didn't it be accepted immediately? So why are we reviewing things

that don't make the slightest sense here. Now, for example, I don't know how many people died in this game of manifestation. Now, I think we... Poor those whores who died. I think we should leave the country... Excuse me, excuse me, one more minute. There are two old men, a pre-old man and an old man, arguing here. The forest will not leave here. Can I ask another question to get out of here? Go ahead. My...

There are many, but I don't think we have to continue this here in 2026. It's been said a lot, there have been many lessons, they all came out live, all live. Those who have heard, heard. Those who don't have, the message will come, because from here it's certainly for many cuts. I'm happy to say that this was one of the most interesting podcasts I've recorded.

There was a lot of teaching here, a lot of things. But it has to end. It has to end. And as the last questions I have for Gilberto. Look, there's a question. Before, okay, pass the mic there. Yes, good evening. Beto, tell the story of the assault on the South African embassy. Tell, no, tell your or Naguipa's.

How much is your naguipa? Let's go. Well, it's an episode of his life. And when they told me that I was going to talk to Beto today, I was excited because he's a good speaker, he's a good speaker, he's a good speaker. And I really wanted to suggest that you finish this talk.

political conversation and so on, although Beto still has a political mission, he is still in debt, right? It was also necessary to say that and I believe that the format of the program also has to do with confessions, I don't know what, right? Confessions of what is still going to happen and Beto still has a project in this city and I wanted to ask him to talk about it.

Let's talk. Yes. What happened? When President Samora died, we organized a... in 1986, we organized a... well, there was a great suspicion, etc., that the plane had been diverted by South Africans and so on. And we organized a demonstration, we organized the young people to protest at the South African embassy. And we went.

And the leader of Intentona was Beto. It was 1986. He doesn't like to tell that story. He was pushing the show to the end so he wouldn't tell that story. And we went to do the demonstration here, in the South African representation, in front of the Xeno. And that's it.

I was younger than him, I was behind him and I was also screaming "these guys killed the president" and I don't remember if they were there or if they had already left. And Beto and the others, me younger, started to agitate Beto to... I don't know, agitate him because they killed Samora and etc. And Beto the others took off his shirt.

And we attacked the embassy. We burned the whole embassy. It was a great mess. I think it was, and it will stay in history, that's why I didn't want to let it go, probably the most serious diplomatic incident that Mozambique has had since 1975. We literally attacked, burned, set the embassy on fire. And we could have taken a shot. And we could have taken a shot. Because after a few minutes, it appeared...

And after a few minutes, Sérgio Vieira, who was the Minister of Security or something like that, of the Secret Service, came there and started to come with everyone. And we, no, for murderers and I don't know what, to take away...

So this habit of burning is not from today, from Venácio.

And when Sérgio Vieira arrived, he came with his troop and we had to flee. And he said: "If you are so available..." Because there were problems with Arnamo, civil war. "If you are available, I have a place for you to go to the woods." But that was not our intention. Our intention was to avenge the death of Papa Samora. Thank you.

I'll go back a little bit, ok? In the line that Naguib was talking about and in the line that Asura was talking about. I want to give an example, for example, in relation to culture and sport. Marginal was renovated and I usually run around the beach, not by Marginal, by the beach. And there are seven beaches and I also work in the same area as Asura.

And I think that there are 7 beaches that have the potential of Caracas, first to give money to the State, so that the State can distribute it through culture or sport. For example, I wanted to ask a question: Why don't the 7 beaches have one player in each of the beaches? That will have Salvador swimmer, will have beach cleaning,

There are beaches that have volleyball. On that beach, the person who is there has to sponsor the volleyball. On the other beaches, they may have to sponsor the culture. But why doesn't the State do that? The State is always saying that it has no money. Yes, it has no money. But why doesn't it make money? Seven beaches there, that gave a lot of money to the State. Why is it that even today... I managed the Coconuts,

We closed Coconuts because of the rehabilitation of Marginal. This was in 2014. We are in 2026, 12 years have passed and the beaches are dirty, they are not used. Why? For example. Good question for this table. On this table is the culture councilor,

But the markets are set up.

Thank you very much.

It's heavy! But it's like this, they are deep questions that were put here and they start a little bit with what we want to be. Congratulations to Txamen for not giving up or for persisting in bringing these figures.

The merit is all in the good thing. Naturally, when Shivambo told me that there would be a podcast with Manjil, and then I said more to spice things up, you're going to sit next to the master. Of course, I'm going there. But it's like this, I'm not kidding.

You are right about the issue you raised about the beaches. There is already a decision by the Municipal Council to, let's say, concession. I think that's the right term. There is a block, if you notice, we call it Block I, where ProSport is, which is our partner for the implementation of sports projects.

and has seen a lot of movement there. In front of the tavern. In front of the tavern, exactly. The other points are also in this concession perspective, which is to materialize the idea that he was here to put. So that in the future we will see a different dynamic. Very good. The word of the councilor. But, does it still continue? Do you have anything else to say?

I'd like to ask Gil a question before he forgets me. We were talking about the cinemas. A cinema room or two, one in Maputo,

and another one on the ceiling, Gil Vicente. Naturally, we have responsibilities with Gil Vicente, because it is a cinema that has passed on to the responsibility of the municipality. Unfortunately, we already found Gil Vicente in that state of abandonment, of vandalization, and we have a rehabilitation project for Gil Vicente. We already have the Aval,

What else?

Nothing else. Nothing else. Thank you. João, I asked a question, I said Gilberto had a project he wanted to talk about, something like that, wasn't that what you said? Jorge? Yes, Jorge, you said you had a revelation to make here. The municipality. The municipality? It wasn't a project of... Jorge and a group of my college colleagues have a fixation for this.

They think we can take care of the municipality and start changing the country from the municipality. That you can take care of the municipality. But I think the mayor is doing a good job. Very good. It's worth recognizing. He's doing a wonderful job. And it's visible. I think these things, it's not just to go, right? If it was necessary, if we thought it would be worth it,

the challenges are to be faced but you are doing a good job I think we are all seeing the change that the city is having the work that is being done without a doubt the councilor every time he comes here leaves us with news at the time of the naguib also talked about the project that will happen there in the cemetery now this is for the councilor more times already I think I think that

Beto, are you available or not to advance? Explain. Jorge is from Anamola. When he asks if I'm available to advance, it's in this context. Come with us or not. The mayor of the municipality is doing a good job, Jorge. He's doing a good job. He's doing a good job. He's doing a good job. There's a question from the cone. Good evening.

Mano Gilberto, I have followed your work since I was a child. It was one of my inspirations when I realized that the problems that are in theater are similar to the ones in classical arts, music, poetry, literature. Maybe by drinking from your knowledge we can help a lot. One of the things that I noticed is that

I have a talent. Then I invested in infrastructure. Then, my team and I looked for what comes after infrastructure and we found out that it is the system.

And the system, changing in 500, is not only the government, but also us, the collectors of our own art. And that, globally, for my branch, is very complex. We already sleep in the studios, the singers, the poets sleep writing, the painters sleep in the ink, etc. But we continue with the same problems that we had 20 years ago. The question is:

In 200 years, society will study Gilberto's works, the literature of other people, the works of Master Naguib. Society will not study the portfolio of real estate in Maputo, will not study the mines that existed in Mozambique.

How could we do it? To have 50 Gilbertos Mendes in Mozambique? Because if we could have 50 Nagibs, Master Nagib has a lot to teach us. And from him I learned that I also have to teach others, but I will not live forever.

And tomorrow when I'm not here, how the system we are designing, or what we are doing, which is a good thing that brought us here, is a platform, it's part of the system. And one of the biggest hooks behind this is that society in general, globally, not only in Mozambique, has romanticized the message that the artist is the one who suffers. The good artist is the one who is suffering. And that,

makes us artists, when we suffer, we are content with this suffering. That of love for the shirt, but the shirt needs to be sewn, the shirt needs to be washed, it needs to be a sadist, a person who loves pain to be able to remain in this state for a long time. So, going back to that, how did Mano Gilberto

to do so that we can have a guidebook.

to imitate us tomorrow, to transfer us to another young person to be able to be equal. We have to go deep into this. My question is to know everything including what you did. Why? The young people who are going to watch this conversation are sitting in a caravan in Nicuadala. Others are in Calanga, only with megabytes to be able to see us. They don't know that those moments when they had to pray, the faith you mentioned,

and many other things. We know the moments when they were rejected and how they dealt with these difficulties. It's only by listening to those who have gone through this and it's an example for us to explain or to testify. Thank you.

uh

I'll pass the word to the moderator and then we'll answer, but with a chronometer. Thank you very much. Gilberto, answer Kuan. Kuan, Arroda has already been invented. What is happening is that we, here in Moçambique, want to manufacture Arroda again. Two basic questions. First, how many curators of art do we have here to take your art and the art of all others out?

How much is your art worth? How do we consume your art? The second question: We pretend we are a nation and God pretends we are people. I'll trade in 500. When we want to post a video of ours on Facebook and put a musical track, a soundtrack there, if we don't pay the rights, don't cut it. I would be rich with the Nora I have, man. If every time you play her music,

If you had to pay, then they say that the artist has to suffer. Music is wasted in any place, anywhere. The works that are made by the artists are practically wasted. And when you get out there, even to participate in a festival, I'm going to participate in a theater festival, when I get there,

I have to ask for the rights of all the songs I play, I have to register all the texts I wrote, I have to register images I can have on the piece. It's all there. There's a Brazilian here who knows how it works. It's all monetized. Not here, folks. Here, we... Yeah, understand. And you have legislation for that, you have all the things,

And we appear as such poor relatives of society. But the day that artists mobilize, just to give a small example, mobilize to act in union and say, guys, from now on, we are a single body and we will defend our rights. There is no single music to play without going through our crime here. You don't have any radio, television, anything, any party, anything.

That's when society awakens, to the need to value and pay what is due. And it's not to pay a lot. If you say that every time you play a song by my daughter, you pay 50 cents, she becomes a millionaire. We're talking about 50 cents. We can't talk about paying 10, 50 cents. Play here, play there, play there, pay right, pay right.

This is one of the examples of what we could do as a nation. But for that, we have to leave the politicians and focus more on ourselves as people, because in no part of the civilized world is there change without people changing first, because politicians are a reflection of society. Sometimes people say: "The police are thieves and so on." Where does that police come from? They come from home.

And we are the first ones to say: "Dad, you're going to work, right? We don't have a car here." And the man has to bring a car. Who told him to do the indiscipline on the road? It's the wife. Or it's the wife who goes to work and the husband says: "You know, there's nothing here." So we pretend that we are... And God also pretends that you exist. The day we start to change, and I think one of the things we have to do now

to reflect on that. The day we start to change mentally and we know who we are, then we make the change. You can see how South Africa was built. The good South Africans made that division in Bantuston because they realized

If those people were more united, the force of the Union could overthrow the weak power they had. That's why there were those batons and there was funding for some to fight the Cossas against the Zulus and so on. Until someone came up who was the agglutinator of all. By agglutinating everyone, the apartheid regime fell. We have to start doing that and that's something...

cultural consciousness, it's a cultural consciousness because this cultural consciousness is about identity, identity is about B.I. Who we are as a nation, who we are and if we know who we are we can go anywhere in the world. Deep words. But they are not so deep because I'm afraid of what the mayor said. He said that when Naguib came it was very good and that I'm here and it's heavy. Man, I think we haven't had a podcast that lasted more than two hours here.

Normally, we take an hour or so to get here. It's a long time. But to say once again, thank you very much Gilberto for the moment, for sharing, for the teachings, for the presence.

-

Let me just make a parenthesis. This part of still honoring you in life, it's in that phase of "this is a matter to be dealt with, let's go there, let's honor, while we have time." No, man, it's not true. You know, we need new heroes. I'm going to get married, you're going to give up.

No, Gilberto, today we need new references. We have another generation here. You have to be considered a hero. This prestige, this merit, has to be deserved. We are not giving it away. Let me tell you a very short story about being a hero. We made a play called Aliados Naturais, when I was at the Mutumelo Gol. Aliados Naturais is a text by Mia Couto.

So, what was the story? A Bulgarian delegation came here to medal a guy called Zeca Tomé. So they looked for Zeca Tomé, but they couldn't find him. Someone said: "There's a Zeca Tomé in Xinavane, who guards Cajús." And they went to catch a guy sitting in the middle of the tree. "Are you Zeca Tomé?" "Yes." "Let's go."

Where to? They put a balalaika, in fact, they took it here to the Independence Square and they put the medal there. It was applauded by the government, it received the medal from the Bulgarian government, by heroic acts and so on. And they returned the man to Sinavano, to his cassocks. He took the thing and hung it on his cassock. Suddenly, a guy appeared there in his machamba. You, who are you? He said, I'm Zeca Tomé.

He said: "I am the authentic Zeca Tomé." I said: "The authentic Zeca Tomé, yes." "You took a decoration of mine." "I didn't take any decoration." "You took the decoration." A fight began. They fought, they fought, they fought until the Italians appeared and separated. They separated, one went to one side, the other to the other. The moral of the story: Zeca Tomé received a medal, but he didn't know that the medal was a decoration.

When the other said: "You received my award", he didn't know what he was talking about. That was the reason for the first fight, because they didn't understand each other. The second question is about why we fight. We fight because of an award, because of a medal. You said I was a hero. So I started thinking: "But will I go to the square?"

Then I will start saying to the people: "Look, people, as a hero, I already have a space there in the square. You who still aspire to be heroes, go there quickly, do something good and die quickly because the places in the square are over." Frelim and Renan fought because of the medal. There was nothing that could not make us live in harmony. A country as rich as ours.

And when I say "frelimo renome" I also mean the aguerridos of the thing. We all walk here in the street because of things that we don't... We have the privilege of being here. But the young people in Nicuadala, if they don't consume this Bonjonjo that we let pass, they have no other fun. And the result is to have children, children, children. A million children are born per year.

There is no school or teacher enough. A million children enter every year in the primary system. A million. We are doing things right. We are pushing things with our bellies. So, tell me, resilient, if you call me a hero, I am capable of entering the ranks of those who DOPA wants to eliminate. Gil, a personal observation.

Your luck, you know what it is, from my point of view, is that you can make us laugh easily. Because I feel that behind many of these smiles that you give us, there is a lot of hurt, a lot of pain that you carry behind your words. That man is listening, he is from Anamola, he is from...

Look... Sir... No, don't look at anything. It's enough. 21 and 17... What is this, Ana Mola? Ana Mola, Mama Mola... I wanted to say two or three things that are important. First, from a cultural point of view,

The Gungu Foundation brought a different form. I was waiting for Beto to talk a little about this. It was a way of doing Mozambican theater, genuinely Mozambican. We were very tied, or we followed a pattern, which was to take great names, and do...

to teach these texts. And the arrival of Gungu brings a revolution because it completely changes this pattern. And today we can say with great pride that in Mozambique we make a Mozambican theater. And the responsibility of this, evidently, of the group is also of Gilberto Mendes. And this is meritorious, right? Meritorious, yes. I mean,

We can say this, looking at the whole world and seeing what theater is, in these regions, it is a theater tied to these texts, to these authors, etc. But we made a Mozambican theater, a theater based on what is the Mozambican reality and that is not dependent on the West.

And there is a second question, what the moderator said. It served and serves as a way to show that we also have some joy. When he said that he makes people laugh easily, I was here looking at my wife and saying that she is really a lucky woman. Because with that man you don't talk for five minutes without laughing.

And he, as far as I know, doesn't carry any grief, he doesn't hide any grief, quite the opposite. And this is a second aspect that I also wanted to bring, related to Gungu, which ends up being a moment of joy in the midst of a lot of disgrace. Certainly. So, he not only did a Mozambican theater, a theater that is a Mozambican text,

But it also has the merit of being able to give us some joy. I mean, if you are depressed from Monday to Friday, if you have problems, etc., there is a

a way to be happy and to say: "I'm going to Gungu!" And there are moments of joy, because life is not only about unhappiness. So, Gungu also has this component, having been, over the 33 years, a moment of joy for the Mozambicans.

And if the Mambas can't, they didn't manage, even during Beto's time they didn't manage, this is political propaganda that he's doing, at least the Gungu Theater gives this happiness, or gives this moment of happiness. I wanted to ask, to close, well, to close, no, I'm not the one who closes, that Beto talk a little about his family. He has a united family, he has a beautiful family, that will integrate a new element

beautiful, cheerful, I hope it will be another element to consolidate this fantastic family that he has. And I would like to ask him to talk a little about his brothers, his parents, to share a little of his... who is a reference family in Mozambique, right? And I would like to hear that, thank you. Well, I'll do it very quickly. I have many good references from my parents.

My father was a business man, born. I saw the opportunities long before the common mortals saw them. I have five brothers who also, thank God, had this vision. One of them is here, Tutu is here, he's back there. My father was a kind of... I mean, he wasn't my father. My mother carried my father and made him have an extraordinary vision of the world.

And she was the one who always saw opportunities and said: "Enjoy there, enjoy!" I'll give you an example that can shock you. In 1974, 75, 76, my father had 18 houses in São Marcilde. It's not normal for a black man in that space of time. But that was a vision, not because he stole, nor was he from Frelimo at the time, it's that he took advantage of the moment. There were a lot of people leaving the country, right?

As people could not take their houses, they sold them to him. And he was left with nothing. But at the same time, in a speech, he lost almost everything. President Samora said, everything is nationalized. So, people go up and down, this resilience, I think we also learn from him. Go up, go down, go back to rise. Everything is there. Go back to rise again.

He was the last one to have a house in São Marcos. No, he was the last one to receive it. But this resilience... But also, this was the result of the woman he had. The woman he had was a woman of guts, a woman who would put him in the place. And this fact of her being there by his side contributed to this extension. The day my father decided to move away from my mother, he became poor.

because she lost that support. And sometimes we lose this notion of the importance that women have in our lives. You know, I became a widow recently. And when I became a widow, before I became a widow, I thought I was the man. I could do everything, I was the one who could do everything. Until I became a widow, I looked and sometimes didn't know what the name of the carpenter or the painter was.

who was there, who was the guy who did this? And it was my employees who said: "Ah, the lady called this and that, call her there." And then you start to gain the importance of the pair, the importance of the woman you have next to you. And I was already getting desperate, I have my children. Molas is the oldest. Molas has an interesting story, it was my first time. So that photocopy came out.

But I started to look at myself, "What will happen to my life now?" I was in a desperate moment, "What will I do with my life?" I failed a lot, I made a lot of mistakes, God was punishing me. And when I was about to enter the well, someone grabbed me by the neck and pulled me up here. It was my bride. And she said, "Let's go to church."

and started teaching me to forgive myself first, to know my weaknesses and recognize them first, so that later I could understand the world. And then, two things, in fact, one thing that I would like to leave here for everyone: Guys, leave your finances in the hands of your wives and you will be very rich. I'm finding jokes, I'm finding jokes, men.

It's true that you are rich now, but if you leave it in their hands, they will only multiply. So Jorge, the family is this. The family is this communion here of all of us anchored in an umbrella that is the mother in the home and that I reconquered. You can see that I am praising a lot, I am talking a lot about my future wife.

Ladies and gentlemen, please give them a round of applause. Sigaval, please. Thank you all very much. This podcast is memorable. Gilberto, once again, another round of applause for you. Thank you.

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intergenerational that we have in this space. So we want more young people, we need, in fact, the oldest, the most adult in this case, because I think this debate is indeed interesting and we can learn a lot. In the 80s and such, maybe I wouldn't exist.

but I start to have very interesting narratives that I think young people really need to live with and be with our elders and learn from them. When I say "elder", I mean from the point of view of science. I would like to ask you for a big round of applause for this intergenerational debate. Ladies and gentlemen, we put the final point in this space.

Thank you very much.