The Four Stages of Improving at League of Legends

In order to climb in League of Legends,

you need to improve. But with so many

possible areas to improve in, where do

you even start? To answer this question

today, we're going to cover the four

stages of improving at League of

Legends, which is a framework that we've

developed over our time coaching

thousands of players across all ranks.

Nathan, where are we starting today? So,

what are these four stages? We're going

to have a graphic on the screen here.

We've got stage one, the top of the

pyramid, which is the execution micro

stage. Stage two, in-game decision-m,

stage three, the big picture mindset.

And then stage four, the outofgame

issues. So why is it a pyramid and how

did we come up with this framework?

Yeah. So it's it's very specifically a

pyramid there for a reason, right? It

could it could also just be four boxes.

But the reason it's a pyramid is because

at the bottom is the base. So it's the

most important thing, right? Stage four

being at the at the very bottom of this

pyramid. Meaning that it takes

precedence over all of the other

problems. If you have a stage four

problem, that is going to bleed into

your stage three and stage two and stage

one so on so forth with the rest of the

stages. So where it kind of came about

was kind of it's a bit of a mixture of a

lot of concepts and things that um I'd

heard over the time. One of which was

Simon Synynic in his concept of starting

with why um about finding your purpose.

And he had this whole graphic about like

uh in order to understand what you need

to do, how to operate on a day-to-day

basis, you need to understand what is

guiding you, what is what is driving

you. And he had this whole thing about

finding your why. that in combination

with John Woodard's pyramid of success

and his anyone who's familiar with uh

big big college basketball fan UCLA um

John Wooden a legend in in that industry

um innovated this whole and we probably

should slap a graphic to be honest about

what this would look like as well. So

that'll be on the screen. And kind of

that got across his philosophy in terms

of what are the most important

principles to create a a a high

performing basketball player. And that

really inspired me to think okay well

what would the pyramid look like in

League of Legends? What's at the bottom

of you know of the League of Legends

improvement journey. Um and that all

together through our coaching experience

led to the creation of this uh four

stages. Well, essentially what we were

finding was we give advice but it's not

working or it's not sticking. So we're

like we're missing there must be

something underlying here. We're missing

things.

>> Yeah. Certain people can implement the

feedback quite easily and certain people

have things hindering them from

implementing that feedback.

>> Yeah. I remember vividly is starting uh

in 2020 working with the average Joe

blow off the street in coaching

sessions. I would give them advice and

my mindset would be like, well, they're

not getting that really that good of

results. You know, I feel like I I'm

saying the right thing, but they're

they're not improving. They're not

climbing. And so, you know, being

introspective and curious and taking

accountability, I'm thinking, okay,

well, it's either one or two things that

either the person is not implementing

what I'm saying correctly or it's my

fault. But then it was happening again

and again and again. So, my idea was

like, well, what I must not be tackling

the problem in the right way. And that

got me thinking in the right way. How do

we actually fundamentally change

behavior? How does behavior change

actually occur in League of Legends?

>> And specifically talking about the base

of the pyramid, stage four. I mean,

we're really getting to the root cause

of some issues with some players.

>> Yeah, exactly. Right. Um, so I I think a

good way to kind of move this forward is

how do how do you actually use this

framework for League of Legends? Right.

So, I guess a big theme of this episode

is going to be giving you guys advice

along the way. Some of you might might

take one or two things from stage three,

maybe one or two things from stage four.

You need to go through this episode with

an open mind and think, okay, what

really resonates with me? What really

resonates with my situation? What what

might be some of the problems that

they're talking about that kind of

resonate with what I'm experiencing my

own soloq journey?

>> Yeah, I think something to think about

as well within the context of using the

framework is like this is more about the

input of the issues. The output could

actually be identical. Like let's take

for example someone like dying to a

gank. This could be because of a stage

one, a stage two, a stage three, or a

stage four issue. So the actual output,

what you see on the screen and what the

problem you're trying to solve, that's

not the end. That's the beginning of

trying to solve the problem, become a

better player.

>> It's it's that's a really good point.

It's really interesting because as

coaches, when we work with people, we

don't be like, oh, they died to a gang,

so there must be a problem with their

map awareness. It could be,

>> but there's a reason. Why do they have a

problem with their map awareness then

and and what is the root cause of that?

Right? So you are spot on Charlie and I

think a lot of people don't think that

deeply in terms of behavior change in

the League of Legends industry they

think they think very surface level but

what we're trying to do here again is

equip people with the skills to be able

to peel back those layers themselves and

actually create sustainable change and

and and this is something that is is

pretty paradigm shifting for people who

haven't heard this thing before. Yeah,

it's really cool just practically using

the pyramid of like identifying exactly

where you're going wrong or maybe what's

the big things that are holding you back

because league can get really confusing

very quickly. You can get plateaued. You

can get stuck. So, uh it's just a really

good tool of introspection like as

people listening to this episode like

where where's my issues?

>> Especially if you're plateaued. I think

if you are plateaued listening to this

episode, you're stuck at whatever rank

this is going to be a very very

important episode for you. M yeah,

specifically I'm excited to get to stage

three. I think a lot of people's reviews

center around stage two and stage one,

if they are reviewing at all, a lot of

coaching um especially until very

recently was purely stage two. Literally

just decision to decision going through

the VOD like we're some sort of

allseeing omnipotent being reviewing the

game.

>> What is the optimal correct decision in

every moment?

>> Yeah, exactly right. And then there's

some players like those more like

intuitive based players who view the

game purely through a stage one lens.

But as

>> pure micro.

>> Yeah. But as we get to stage three and

four are kind of where a lot of juicy

20enters can be found.

>> So Nathan, we're going to start off with

stage four.

>> Yeah. So we'll start with the bottom of

the pyramid. Stage four. So the way that

we've defined stage four is out of game

factors that influence your level of

play. So these are going to be problems

that extend beyond the game. This is out

of game things. So I think the most

practical way to do this is let's just

list it off. What are the big outofgame

issues we find with our you know our

members and the league community.

>> Yeah. I mean the first one off the

docket here we said fixed mindset.

>> I think this one's a great one to start

with because it's so toxic if you don't

address this. Right.

>> I I I remember vividly many many times

people come into coaching and they don't

really they're not ready to actually

improve. They don't believe they can.

>> They don't believe they can actually

improve. And sometimes you get people

that are at at a point in their journey

where they actually want to prove to

themselves that they can't.

>> Yeah. They're not talented. Gaming is

just a talent thing. You know, you

watch, you know, Faker or whatever it is

on the television and you're like,

"Okay, you know, that's just completely

out of my impossible for me to do that."

>> Or examples of this would be, yeah, like

is it talent? I'm too old. Um I I don't

have that gaming background. Uh you

know, my friends are just they've played

games younger than me, so I can't keep

up. my first mobile.

>> I don't play enough of the game, so it's

impossible for me to climb whatever

wherever that fixed mindset stems from.

It's a it's it's it's essentially

lacking the belief, the fundamental

belief that you can change your

behavior. And if that is unressed, it

doesn't matter what the coach is going

to say or what advice anyone gives you,

you're literally not going to be able to

implement that advice cuz you're not

going to change

>> cuz your heart won't be in it and you

won't actually take the steps

consciously or subconsciously to make

behavior change. Right? So a fixed

mindset fundamentally is like it's

opposite of a growth mindset which is

the mindset you're aiming towards when

we're looking at climate League of

Legends. If we're trying to talk about

the antithesis of all of these points, a

growth mindset would be that you believe

that you can grow and change and improve

and that you're like you're malleable,

right? The person I am tomorrow is going

to be different than the person I am

today and my behaviors and actions can

influence who I become. Challenges are a

good thing, not a bad thing or run away

from them or avoid them.

>> With effort, time, patience, practice, I

will get better than what I was

yesterday. Every single day is an

opportunity to to be 1% better.

>> So, next up, we have relationship with

the game. Now, this can be extremely

broad. You know, we're talking about,

you know, toxicity, narratives about the

game. Um, a big one we see when we

people, you know, give us their OP GGGs

or whatever, we see 50 different

champions roll swap in, champ up in all

the time. These are things before you

even get on the rift is going to be

holding you back. Yeah. Like using the

game as like a form of escape. Maybe you

have a poor relationship with the game

because you associate it with like a

poor time in your life or you just use

the game to like piss away time. Like if

you've pissed away time on the rift for

like months or years, it's quite

difficult to start viewing it as like a

vessel for self-improvement especially,

it's very easy to keep pissing away more

time. Um, but yeah, as you said, just

classic just like toxicity. I would say

like this can come from many different

causes. It can come from like friendship

groups that you grew up playing the game

with. Maybe they view the game in a

negative way. Maybe you came to League

of Legends from like Call of Duty or

something and you associate the game

with like just yelling at the screen,

gamer rage, [ __ ] around on the

console, yelling, just like generally

having just like a very like traditional

young gamer. I'm a gamer,

>> you know, as opposed to viewing the game

as a bit of a craft. I would say a big

one is uh imposing past gaming uh you

know you're a WoW player or FPS player

or whatever and then anchoring your

previous experiences from those games

onto your league, right? We see that all

the time. People say, "I was an ex

gladiator in WoW or top ranked Starcraft

player and now play League and I should

be also really good at League cuz I

think that League's an easier game." And

they come in and they're not open-minded

or curious or ready to actually learn.

Also, it's something as simple as the

game's unbalanced

losers. Riots's out to get me. You know,

the matchmaker systems is specifically

targeting me to make sure I don't win.

So, I'm constantly

>> engagement optimized matchmaking. All

these are all narratives and beliefs.

These are these are things that are

going to shape your your behavior.

They're going to shape the way you you

actually operate on a day-to-day basis.

>> And again, the reason that these are

stage four is because they are the base

the foundation of the pyramid. If these

issues are prevalent, if they exist, you

will not be able to tackle any stage

three, four, two, or one issues. It's

just not going to be.

>> And even if you do, let's say you try,

let's say, cuz I I do want I don't want

to make this all like doom and gloom.

Some some people can have a negative

relationship with the game or they can

have a somewhat fixed mindset or

whatever, and they can get to a

particular rank or they might improve,

>> you know, somewhat, but it's going to be

very slow, very, very slow,

>> very painful, very confusing. It's going

to be not an enjoyable experience and

it's going to and it's going to really

limit the value you get from time

spending on the rift, right? Whether it

be watching even uh getting coaching or

uh trying to play with intensity would

just be very difficult. Reviewing games

is going to be very difficult. It will

just be a lot of issues. You're like

solving one problem and then slam

interface into another problem.

>> Yeah. Well, that's cuz people might be

saying, "Well, my favorite Twitch

streamer or whatever, you know, is the

toxic Draven or the Yaso or whatever

who's fighting all the time." And then

they'll be say, well, what the approach

that they did is they threw enough [ __ ]

at a wall, eventually it stickked. Yeah,

they might have they're really hard on

themselves maybe, but they're not having

a really good experience. They might,

you know, plateau and completely get

stuck at a certain rank, but also as

well like, you know, someone that I

think about who's gone like through our

programs or listen to this podcast or

written in and they said, I approached

League with a growth mindset. I fixed my

relationship with the game. they got out

of the game more to be able to apply

that to other areas of their life than

the toxic Draven man or Twitch man or

whatever that just slam their head

because they wouldn't be able to

describe or even internalize what they

did to get improve at this specific you

know thing. People might be saying you

know prove a video game but it's

pointless but uh you know if people

listen to this podcast for a long time

there's a lot of skills if you're

introspective you can learn how to learn

from a game like League of Legends

>> think of narrative it's always Draven

and Twitch by the way

>> we just let's change this culture let's

go Kane, dude. Let's go Kane. Come on.

Toxic players.

>> Next time we mention toxic players,

speaking of narratives and relationship

with the game, I'm bringing up bloody

Kane.

>> I I I do want to say one thing about

stage four issues as well is that I

think it they the way I like to view

them very simply is that they're things

that are preventing you from expressing

your best self

>> and seeing where you're at. Right? With

stage four issues, you can't actually

know where your level of play is, right?

because you're never going to it's going

to be you're going to find it incredibly

difficult to go on the rift and show the

world what you're capable of cuz you're

going to be in your head. You're going

to be overthinking. You're going to be

judging whatever the hell it might be.

>> You might just be on a, you know, a

confident streak and then you lo you

lose and then you're uncom

versus being a stable process long-term

approach to the game.

>> Part of that is because it's an you're

at an identity level at that point,

right? with some with a lot of these

stage four issues like your League of

Legends performance becomes who you are

and it's where if if your League of

Legends performance is where you derive

your confidence from specifically

whether you win or lose games if that's

where you derive your confidence from as

a as a person and and your like um level

of selfsec security like that's just a

negative spiral and it it's it it's hard

to

>> approach the game with curiosity and

vulnerability which is actually required

to improve. That's what it stops you

from doing. Next up, we have ranked

anxiety. So, this is very common classic

one. They're very are scared to queue up

because maybe they're really scared of

what people are going to think about

them in the game or they're really

scared that they might derank or that

they're going to lose, you know, just LP

or whatever it is.

>> Well, this goes hand inhand a lot of the

time with fixed mindset, right? Where,

you know, they they're scared of finding

out their plateau, right? If they hit

their plateau and they got a fixed

mindset, that's it. That mean that was

for me when I had a fixed mindset. I was

uh that was my fear to see my level of

play because if I if I've reached my

capacity and I know what my capacity is

then that's it. That's the end of the

[ __ ] line, right? Um that was

something that I took me a long time to

get over. Yeah. It also links to the

next point. Fixation on LP because it's

just like fear of demotion.

>> Yes.

>> Fear of losing the LP I've gained, you

know, fear of looking bad in the eyes of

others as well. ranked anxiety cuz the

ranked soul uses this. You're putting

yourself out there. It is like a very

public thing. You have a number. Your

friends list can see you. You're there

on the leaderboard. There you are.

>> Rank. Yeah. This is what you This is you

are currently number 30,500 in the

player base. You know, now you're, you

know, maybe number 5,000.

>> This is where also like your friendship

groups and environmental factors come

into play, right? And and and obviously

friendship groups and things can be a

very positive thing. They can be very

uplifting and supportive, but at the

same time, we've heard many horror

stories of friendship groups putting

expectations on someone or putting them

down when they lose games or like,

"Haha, you just lost, you know, you were

this rank and now you're that rank." And

that can create a lot of stress and

anxiety um to perform or be a certain

type of player, which again is is is the

is the opposite of flow state.

>> Yeah. And some people like this fixation

on LP thing. There was a recent story in

the bowling academy where someone it was

another one where someone made those one

of those apps, right? They vibe coded an

app which basically insta- closed the

client, hid their LP from them

>> and it completely cured their fixation

on LP and their relationship with the

game. And I think they they cl they

checked it after they climbed from like

Platinum 2 to like Emerald something.

They had no idea.

>> They didn't know. No. And he credits

that that this vibe coded app that he

made with with that completely

>> cuz like people have done that for a

while, right? I think someone did at

Midland Academy years ago. But it just

goes to show how deep rooted this

problem is.

>> This whole fixation on LP. It's like

>> it's it's embedded in human nature.

>> Yeah.

>> To some degree.

>> Yeah. It's an interesting one because

fixation on LP doesn't always have to be

a stage four issue. like it, you know,

you can have a healthy relationship like

cuz think about it at the end of the day

this is this is where it's a fine line

right where we all all three we care

about LP right we care about improving

and winning and climbing but it's not

the be all end all right we are also

focused on becoming better players and

expressing finding our own level of play

and going out there and having a crack

right but it's it's I think the key word

is is the actual fixation right you can

have an emphasis on LP you can be

excited about LP you can be playing for

LB, but you don't need to fixate on it's

the

>> fixation be all like I'm going in the

game to gain LP, not actually make good

decisions or improve or focus on chain

mastery.

>> What that manifests in is stuff like

staying up all night playing because of

to regain the LP you lost.

>> Counting counting how many games you

need to get to the next rank.

>> Like looking at your match history and

literally going, "Okay, this was a loss.

This is a win. This that that's the

negative fixation, you know, that's not

the kind of mentality that we would have

towards the game. What we have is more

like I'm just going to I want to [ __ ]

dominate my opponent and win, you know,

and see progress and climb and compare

myself

>> or like I want to use the fact that I

want LP to to muster up intensity and

focus to to express my level of play cuz

I'm a competitive individual and if I

play to my level of play, I can learn

more. I can see my level and and learn,

right?

>> Yeah. I mean, the LP is also just like a

measuring stick. It shows you how

>> exactly how good you are. That's what

the the solic is.

>> Yep. So, next up we have addiction

>> playing 15 games a day. Um, low it sort

of goes hand in hand with like low

intensity like they're just absolutely

just pissing away games. I couldn't even

remember by game 15 what game 10 even

happened you know just the blur their

games become their whole journey becomes

a blur.

>> Yeah. I I associate addiction with like

sherking out of game responsibilities as

well. Like you're just like leaving

stuff like dishes in the sink. You might

be calling in sick to work,

>> homework unattended, skipping class,

>> failing school.

>> Yeah.

>> Being late to work.

>> Probably just like on a Discord call as

well during all of these games,

listening to music, yapping with people

on Discord, pissing away the games.

There's definitely a plateau which comes

along with addiction as well. It's hard

just very hard to go anywhere doing

that.

>> Next one's a interesting one.

Expectations. So, this is a a bit of a

hidden one that holds a lot of people

back like they're they're expecting a

certain outcome in, you know, with their

I want to get to diamond by this month

or whatever. They set like deadlines,

expectations when it comes to Yeah. like

their they come from this previous back

gaming background and it's like, okay,

league's going to be easy. I'm just

going to be able to get, you know,

platinum in in a few time few months or

whatever it is.

>> Expectations a bit it's a big one. It it

can be very broad. It can be very like

uh personal like I expect myself to be

able to perform at this kind of

arbitrary level. I I expect myself to u

be the type of player that can play all

these archetypes. I expect the type you

know what whatever the hell it might be.

It's some unreasonable kind of

expectation that is again preventing you

from entering flow state and expressing

your best self. You're constricting your

um you know your self-expression in a

way. I think expectations it is very

very broad and I think we all h I think

there is again a difference between

unhealthy and healthy expectations. I

think you've mentioned this many times,

Charles, about like healthy expectations

are things that are in your control,

things that we can control on a

day-to-day or gameto basis. How I use my

L states, how much intensity I play

with, or what champions I I can play, my

review process, things like that. These

are things that we can actually do no

matter what, regardless of the result.

There is no crazy deadline, timeline,

and it's all it's it's very pure and

coming from a good place.

>> Yeah. Yeah, there's also expectations

about things uh not only outside of our

control but outside of ourselves like

expectations of teammates.

>> Yeah.

>> Expectations of the solo Q system,

expectations of matchmaking. Like people

assume every game is going to have an

equally likelihood of win or loss. My

teammates are going to perform to an

acceptable standard. My supports are

going to pick normal champions. My like

the the if I lose three in a row, the

next one's going to be a win. you know,

like a lot of there's a lot of like

hidden

>> expectations that go along with people

queuing up that aren't just like about

their own performance.

>> Yeah. So, I think I think we've covered

a lot of stateful issues. Now, I I do

want to kind of bring it back to, you

know, just practicality here. Like a lot

of people listening so far have taken

>> one or two things from this and like,

oh, okay, I resonate with that. I I know

that these things are affecting me. I

want to talk a little bit how do we how

do we first of all identify and fix some

of these? How do we how do we actually

move past them and create solutions?

>> Well, identifying them is step one,

right? So if we're aware of them then

that's or aware that they're a problem

>> cuz you know I think that you know maybe

the like toxic Draven man

>> toxic cane man sorry maybe know that

like you know they're you know they they

know that maybe they're toxic in a way

but like they don't maybe see it as a

problem or they maybe even think that

it's actually a good thing cuz like they

care about the game or whatever it is or

they you know they care more than these

casual players that is on their team or

whatever it is. Um, so yeah, so I would

say identifying them and being aware

that they are an issue.

>> Yeah, awareness step number one.

Totally. I think awareness is always has

to be step number one. And this is where

it becomes a bit of a challenge, right?

Because sometimes you can know

something's going wrong, but you're not

ready to address that. You know, this is

where sometimes it goes beyond our skill

set as coaches. We can't be we don't

this is stuff that you might need to

address with your friends or your family

or a therapist, whatever, right? This

couldn't be out of our pay grade. So,

but it is step number one is being

honest. How do I, you know, how do I

feel? Do I feel like I have a healthy

relationship with the game? Do I And and

there are signs, right? So, I guess when

when you guys see someone with a healthy

relationship with the game, you think

that they're largely free from stateful

issues, what are some ways this

manifests? How do how does one know that

they have a relatively healthy

relationship with the game?

>> Just not having a good time like clearly

like talking about the game in a really

rigid way. um

>> like an unstable emotional state. High

highs and lows.

>> High highs and low lows. Absolutely.

You know, that's the uh the negative

side. Ventings. Venting. Yes. A lot of

venting. A lot of venting.

>> Yeah. I mean, I was going to say for a

healthy relationship, just like a a calm

and a willingness to take things slow.

No rush. I think a negative relationship

with the game and stage four issues

makes you rush to get progress. Because

inherent in a lot of these stage four

issues is the idea that in order to

climb, it's not about improving. It's

just about like quickly scrambling my

way to the rank I actually deserved the

whole time. That's the underlying

message. There's no acceptance because

level of play and like like that that's

not even a concern. The concern is

simply how do I get this goddamn LP in

my pocket so I can get to what I

currently deem as like my appropriate

level of play, which is often like maybe

like a division above from where they

are. and then they they they trick

themselves and they think when I'm at

that division I'll be fine and I can

start improving but until then I need to

just get there. That's the negative. But

a positive relationship with the game

and the lack of stage four issues looks

like very very comfortably just going

through their blocks not really having

like massive emotional swings between

wins or losses. Definitely still some

pain. There's no there's not a lack of

pain.

>> It's not just chill little gym going up

up and up.

>> It's definitely not like happy golucky

every single second. we're still having

massive problems and there's still going

to be swings in their level of

performance and ups and downs in terms

of LP, but like there's no falling off

the wagon. The their first response

won't be to vent and complain or be

like, "Okay, let me think about that for

a little bit." It's like sort of think

before I speak.

>> Yeah. There's I think what you're

describing there is a sense of emotional

regulation, right? You have the ability

to be like, "Okay, I'm not in the right

maybe I'm a bit pissed. I'm a bit

frustrated. I'm not going to let these

emotions, you know, turn me into a Tilt

Q session all night. I'm going to be

able to say no, get off the PC, and do

something else. Like, there's an

awareness and a control

>> of your journey and where it's going is

a big one.

>> Also, just like sticking to your

process, not like ruining your process

because of this. Like, not play, not

spamming extra games, not pivoting your

champion pool

>> after like one loss or whatever.

>> Not giving up, like just just sticking

it out. Cool. I I do want to say two

things that come to my mind with this is

you like you said accepting your level

of play. Just accepting your situation

in totality, right? Accepting that maybe

you're not the most talented player,

accepting that you're not going to

speedrun to this rank. You're not going

to be this, you know, uh, you know,

you're not gods gifted, was it? God's

given talent or whatever. You're not

this crazy amazing player that maybe you

thought you were. Just accept whatever

the rank system is telling you because

the rank system is a mirror. It's

showing you your level. It's showing

where exactly where you're meant to be

and accepting whatever is given to you.

I would say the second thing is

>> um

>> yeah, I would say is being okay with um

the es and flows of the journey, right?

It's not going to be this whole chaos.

>> Embrace the chaotic nature of the

journey is is a big one that can help.

>> Yeah. I think recognizing that no one

cares about your journey nearly as much

as you think they do.

>> Because a lot of these are because of

like self-imposed beliefs of others on

yourself.

>> Whereas your friends and other people on

the client, they might jab. They might

say the off-handed comment, but then

they just go back to their own [ __ ]

life and start dealing with their own

stuff. No one actually cares about your

situation.

>> So like really practical things like

mute all in chat, right? Correct. That's

really practical. Mute pings if you need

to. if you're getting baited by pings

all the time.

>> The first thing that comes to my mind

with this as well is like knowing your

why,

>> accepting your player identity, like why

and and we talk a lot about this, like

why do you play League of Legends? What

do you want to get out of it? Is it is

it that competitive endeavor? Is it that

>> you know you want to be good so you can

play Clash with your mates? Is it what?

Whatever the [ __ ] it doesn't matter.

But just knowing being aware of your why

and what you're looking to get out of

it, I think goes a long way because if

you're acting in one way that is going

against your why, that is a very quick

way to develop stateful issues. Right. A

common one we see um is people playing

quote for fun, right? But in deep down,

if they're really honest with

themselves, they actually do want to try

hard and they actually want to take the

game seriously and they want to improve.

So they're at odds, their behavior is at

odds with what they want to get what

they want to get out of their

experience. So you need to you're you

need to be aligned with your why and

your actions. I think it's really really

really important.

So let's talk more about like help

fixing three block process is having a

process

>> is just having a process uh you know

maybe having I'm going to play the

champion for this amount of time before

I decide to give up on the champion. I

am going to the yeah the very famous

three block process that we preach about

on the broken by concept podcast

>> and we teach league is have a start and

end time to your play because that's

going to help you play with higher

intensity. It's going to prevent like

you know the LP big swings and it just

sort of really structures you know your

day your you know helps your relation to

the game. The three processes are

fantastic. It helps a lot of people but

it has so many benefits. Something that

happens a lot in our communities inside

of ourmies is a twoe challenge which I

think can help a lot with these stage

four problems where you just kind of lay

out the kind of behaviors you want to

exhibit over a twoe period and then just

track how you go and then reflect at the

end. I think reflection in general

structured reflection is very important

for identifying stage and fixing stage

four issues. reviewing games, you know,

so downloading the games three block

process, right? Game one, review, game

two, review, game three, review or play

three games, maybe, you know, going

everyone's process is different. Maybe

play the three games in the three block

and you review the next day or take a

break and review after whatever it is.

Just having a process. One of my

favorite techniques for helping people

identify stage four issues is go to the

moment in the VOD

>> where you lost your mind.

>> If it is a moment in the game where

you're getting really frustrated,

>> maybe it's from Champlake, you see a

champion locked in. I I don't it doesn't

even matter where it is, whether it's

start in the game, beginning of the

game, end of the game. And be honest

with yourself, okay? Ask yourself why.

Why does this bother me so much? And

then ask why again, and then ask why

again. If you do that three or four

times, you're going to have a rough idea

about, okay, wow, this thing is really

bothering me. Okay, I can I can use that

as a as a um a red flag to to go to dig

a little bit deeper. And last thing I'll

say is community and a friendship group.

Have someone to talk to about this

stuff. like obviously the our WLU uh

WTLMies have an amazing community. If

you're not in the WLMies, find a friend

that is also passionate about League and

talk about it. I think not having

someone to talk about your passion and

talk about the game, you know, can be

very difficult, right? And and I I do

think it goes a long way. Just talk to

your mate like, you know what, I had

this three block. I was really

struggling or I'm I'm really struggling

with XY Z champion nowadays. And just

talking it through can actually go a

long way as long as that conversation is

productive and you're both aligned.

>> Yeah. I just want to say because this

part of the podcast has probably sounded

very doom and gloom. We're talking about

a lot of very negative things, sometimes

very lifeimpacting negative events that

can lead you to wasting months if not

years of your life in a game like this.

So, I'm not going to like downplay that.

That is very important. It's like if you

have a feeling that you're you love

League of Legends and you like the

hobby, but you might be wasting your

time, then it is definitely worth going

down this rabbit hole and really

reflecting. There's that movie that you

guys uh recommended to me a few years

ago. The work. Is that the name of the

movie?

>> The documentary. Yeah, that's incredible

documentary around like kind of finding

the root cause of problems and it

definitely informs uh the stage four

problems in League of Legends. So

>> yeah, I think said I think it's

important to really reiterate that

because the reason it's so interesting

because

>> when we when we got into this, we didn't

really expect to find this. This wasn't

really anything we anticipated in our

coaching. we're just going to rock up to

stage two issues like

>> get back to your Raptors, mate. Get back

to your Raptors.

>> You just made the wrong decision here.

Let's go correct this.

>> And and and I do think some people

listening to this may just be like, you

know what, I don't resonate with this at

all. And and that's because they do have

a healthy relationship with the game.

They're they're rock and rolling. But

for the people that need to hear this,

>> like you said, Charlie, this could

literally save people months and years

of pain and suffering. And and for us,

you know, that

>> that's has become a really big part of

what we do now. just coincidentally

because we don't want to see people piss

away years of their life with a toxic

relationship with the game.

>> Yeah. Way more people than we expected

riding into this podcast with these type

of stage four issues as well as people

in our academyy's realizing this is this

is the main thing that's holding you

know this guy back.

>> Yeah. It's it's interesting because I

think each of us have had our own fair

share of stage four issues all differing

in different ways in different

capacities and have impacted our

journeys in different ways. But if you

really think critically, if those stage

four issues weren't addressed by each of

us on our own time, we wouldn't be half

the players we are today.

>> Yeah, I've learned a lot about myself

outside of the game as well from trying

to get really good at League of Legends

>> from the stage 4 issue. So, you know,

yeah, going back to what you were

saying, Charles, very doom and gloom

negative. But you can learn so much

about yourself and actually turn a lot

of those into positives

>> because there just in a way you're never

going to have no one's going to rock up

to League and have no stage four issues.

It's impossible is a part big part of

the journey of League is

>> having these stage four issues,

identifying them, and solving them. That

is really what the journey is. That's

actually

>> they [ __ ] pop up.

>> They will pop up.

>> Yeah. cuz everyone because a fundamental

of League of Legends and improving is

that you will at one point get stuck. No

one has a crisp clean climb to the top.

Everyone plateaus and that's when the

stage four issues rear their ugly heads

when the plateau happens and you never

know how you're going to deal with a

plateau until it occurs and you'll never

have your final plateau. Everyone will

keep plateauing. That's how the game

works.

>> Yeah, League is the ultimate game. You

know, maybe you'll get a little bit less

um stage four issues if you're playing a

game like Farmville. I thought you gonna

say chess for a second. I'm like, is he

is the [ __ ] going to say it? Is he

gonna say chess?

>> All the all the hardcore Farmville

players are going to start roasting me

there.

>> Yeah.

>> Um

>> well, Candy Crush.

>> Candy Crush, right? These are both

mobile games.

>> I just think mobile disrespect.

>> Yeah. Really disrespecting mobile games.

>> All right. So, moving to the next, you

know, we're going a little bit higher up

now.

>> So, we've solved all our stage four

problems.

We've spent 5 years in the Himalayas

meditating in a cave. We've solved all

our problems and now we're ready to

start playing the game.

>> We've transcended.

>> Yes, we're enlightened.

>> So, stage three, which is big picture in

game mindset issues. So, we're now on

the rift, but these are things that, you

know, no matter if we outplay, you know,

absolute mechanically out of our mind or

whatever it is, our general approach

towards the game or this champion is

just not going to be consistent.

>> Well, so this this part of of the

episode stage three is which was this

was the main part that was influenced by

Simon Synynic, right? for for so Simon

Synynic talks a lot about how the way

you acted on a day-to-day basis was

actually influenced by the way you're

thinking and and knowing your why and um

and this is what really got me inspired

with this and and I remember asking

myself when I was when I came up with

the term champion identity and and all

this sort of stuff I remember thinking

hm if when I'm playing so for example

Oriana why do I do what I do why do I

choose to play my lane this way why do I

say no to that fight and yes to this

fight. And it sent me down that rabbit

hole of like, huh? Yeah. Wow. I actually

this champion views the game through a

particular lens. I'm when I'm playing

Oriana, I feel like I'm a different

person than when I'm playing Fizz. And

and I think what we're we're going to

get into here is it not only is an

understanding of like how to think, but

it's also prioritization because you can

be directing your attention in an an

infinite amount of places in a game of

League of Legends, but how do we know

where to direct our attention?

>> What's important? Why is that important?

How should I be thinking? Why should I

be thinking that way? This is going to

influence and shape your decisions.

>> Yeah. And the reason why this is linked

to champion stuff is we often say you

need to like think like your champ,

right? Like when you're playing AI,

you're not just playing League, you're

playing AI. Everything you do is through

the lens of Oriana. So, you're going to

want specific things and not want

specific things. And yeah,

misunderstanding or going against your

champion identity or reference points is

is that's it. That's a large part of

like the first couple of stages of the

game for a lot of people. And it's where

a lot of like 20enters live. a lot of

prime like first or second coaching

sessions with a client. We're bringing

up a lot of stage three problems

>> and you're just saying your view of this

champion's wrong or your view on

>> Yeah. You know, we can't even really be

getting into anything of the game

because you're not playing the champion

to its strengths. You're playing away

from it like you're doing it weaknesses.

>> Yeah. Exactly. And and this is why like

this is why the reviews can sometimes be

really like fast-paced and just like oh

my god like this where you can get

really eyeopening experiences where it's

like holy [ __ ] my in-game specific

decisions. It would actually be a waste

of time to go and isolate moments and

break them all down as individual

moments and be like okay this trade is

bad because of this. This recall is bad

because of this. This um team fight here

is bad because of this. Cuz the the

specifics don't matter. It's all about

the holistic view because the the lens

of which you view the game through is

where the stage three issues come from.

>> Yeah. If you don't know what you're

trying to achieve.

>> Yeah.

>> Then it doesn't really matter about the

minutiae of all of your actions because

>> and and there's no point reviewing the

rest of the game because the next game

every decision is going to look

different because they're going to be

aligned to their champions reference

points.

>> Yeah. And this is what like pissed me

off like watching some coaching like um

again probably like five plus years ago

now where like a coach will sit there

and like talk to the to the player about

all these little things like you should

push this wave in here and then after

that you should be leaning towards top

and then you should you should be using

your queue like this and it's like the

members are sitting there like why why

the bloody hell would I want to do that?

The it's not like the reason they didn't

recall there is because they're just

dumb or they weren't thinking. It's like

they're prioritizing something else.

They have a different view of the game.

This was the when I I mean still to this

day with most coaching I look at online

that is not within the WLMIS. This is

the thing that is missing because what

happens with a high again the common

thing is if I get coaching from a

challenger coach they're going to just

why why why wouldn't I get coaching from

the rank one player? Shouldn't they be

an amazing coach? Well, what's going to

happen is that the challenger coach is

going to assume that you know what the

champions idents are or how to think as

that champion. So for example, if

Fantasm were to work with an Axan player

in gold, there is so much that Fantasm

is going to just expect that you know

about Axan that it's going to be

overwhelming to for Fantasm to even

begin to break down how you should be

thinking cuz it's so obvious to him.

It's like how imagine your champion's

identity and your reference points are

like it's like a set of glasses that you

put on. It's like lenses. The way you

view the world is through that champion.

But Fantasm would have had those lenses

on for so long, those contact lenses for

so long that even describing how you

view the game would be so overwhelming.

It it's it's it's it's actually a really

difficult part of coaching the game when

you when when you're first getting into

coaching because so many things you

think are obvious.

>> Of course, you're going to think like

that as an Oriana or a Jinx or or a

Rexai. That's just the way you view the

game. But no, these are things that are

so deeply ingrained as a HYO player that

it's actually overwhelming to me. I

remember having like these massive like

like revelations in my coaching in the

early days like what the hell they they

don't even this person I'm coaching

doesn't even know that this is this

should be like your way of thinking as

an Oriana. Well, I think like the two

most pre it's kind of one thing but the

two most prevalent stage three problems

if we're going to really umbrella term

them Nathan will love this.

>> Playing for kills.

>> That's a mindset. load onto the rift and

your modus operandi, if that's how to

say it, is literally I'm going to kill

the enemy laner.

>> Kill is good.

>> Yeah. So, if I play Oriana, right, and I

rock up on the rift and I'm playing for

a solar bolo, you're already doomed.

You're doomed.

>> A lot of And that's it for a lot of

people cuz the game is a combat based

game. They're loading as Jinx and from

minute one, the first time they see the

opponent, they're [ __ ] theory

crafted, right? How am I going to kill

this [ __ ] Like, what am I going

to do to kill? go over the place, the

jungle track and all that doesn't matter

because we're in the wrong, you know,

mindset.

>> I love that example actually because

with Oriana, right, I always say your

mindset, for example, is less about who

who do you kill, but who can kill you.

>> Yeah. And that's

>> imagine that. Imagine just that one

piece of advice that will change every

single decision that is made in that

person's gameplay moving forwards.

>> Yeah. Exactly right.

>> If they ward, how they ward, if they

move to that fight, how they're going to

approach that fight, how they use their

abilities in that fight. every single

little thing.

>> Yeah. Will change.

>> Yeah, it's huge. The the other big one

is like early game versus late game. So,

people have very like harsh views of

like, okay, I'm playing this champion.

This is a late game champion, so I must

do all these late game things. Or I'm

playing this champion, it's an early

game champion, so I have to force the

game super early. I'm going to make

things happen. Or just even regardless

of whether you think it's early or late,

just how much you need to do to win a

game. That's another stage three

problem. people who think that they need

to do a billion and two things to kill

the enemy nexus,

>> which is going to be outside of what

their champions actually going to do.

>> Yeah. It's going to be a smorgus board

of your champion strengths, weaknesses,

[ __ ] it can't even [ __ ] do. There's

like so much stuff that they're trying

to get done.

>> Yeah. Like, you know, when we play the

game, it's crazy how we're thinking

there's probably three or four moments

in the game that I'm really going to be

able to show how good this champion is.

>> Yep.

>> And that's I need to execute. I need to

get into a position where I can execute

that perfectly so then I can actually

win a game of League of Legends.

>> Yeah.

>> Which is crazy to think about. I think

30 40 minutes there's only like four or

five moments that I really need to play

my champion to my champ identity or say

no to that fight or whatever it is. That

is really, you know, League is

>> that. That's another big one is like

another big picture mindset people

struggle with in game is trying to save

their teammates. And that League of

Legends is this like all for one and one

for all team game where we all just need

to bloody group up together and like

Thresh's caught guys send in the bloody

seal team. We need to go extract him

from the enemy jungle. Whereas the other

mindset is it's okay for your teammates

to die. You can actually give

objectives. pressure. Like again, that's

not the specifics mean nothing. It's not

about like, oh, Thresh is actually dead

here because the Javin actually still

had ulti and the Thresh doesn't have

flash. That doesn't matter because the

underlying view of the player is like

>> teammate court equals I must help.

>> So stage three, just to be really clear

here for people, it's it's champion

reference points. Champ, how you think

as a champion, but also as well how you

think in terms of the game of League of

Legends. So it's like, you know, big

picture in terms of champion as well as

like your reference points in terms of a

general game of League of Legends.

>> Yeah. I I I think there's so many layers

to to the stage three cuz like like what

you've been mentioning about like,

>> you know, the game of League of Legends,

what are we actually fundamentally

trying to achieve? Or you can go a layer

down, which is like, okay, how do I win

with my champion or whatever. It's it's

just there are so many layers to this

and sometimes with coaching, it takes a

while for people's stage three issue to

get exposed.

>> Do you know you know what I mean?

Sometimes you you might work with a with

a coaching client and you realize maybe

after session two or three that they may

know the champions reference points, but

their actual perception of the game is

just completely bonkers. You know what I

mean? And then you realize that and then

and then so as a coach, a really great

coach will be able to peel back the

layers, look at their in-game decisions

and and actually zoom out and be like,

"Oh, I actually now would see how you're

coming to that conclusion. you're going

for this kill cuz you feel you need to

really go for this kill cuz if you don't

>> early game champ or whatever.

>> Exactly. Right. You're thinking like if

I if you don't snowball and that's a

common one, right? A common one

specifically with a lot of people is

>> um they feel like they need to snowball

in the early lane.

>> Yeah.

>> You've got our famous case study with

the gold axan player, right? His view of

the game was you need to perma roam um

as a get kills and go down like 80 farm

or whatever it is.

>> He's running around like a loon trying

to kill everyone. I I I do want to say

one thing on this topic, right? For

people that are plateaued, right? What

happens is that they watch a lot of VODs

>> and they're trying to mimic the the the

actual decisions and the behaviors, but

they don't really know what that person

is trying to achieve.

>> But when we when when like a really high

when a high level expert of the game

watches a high level VOD,

>> you're not really looking at the

specific decisions they're making.

You're looking at like what does this

person like like when you watch Natty

for the first time and really study his

gameplay. Yeah, you're looking at his

decisions, but you're trying to zoom out

bigger picture like what's his mindset

playing the game? Like what is he trying

to achieve?

>> What does he prioritize?

>> What does he prioritize and why? You

know what I mean?

>> And I think that's an interesting thing

when you're really changing behavior.

You're really trying to peel back like

what are they fundamentally trying to

achieve? That's where the big 20%ers are

found, you know? Now, you know, thinking

about this more, I was thinking, do we

need like an extra layer here in the

pyramid of like separating champion like

reference points champion big picture

stuff versus game big picture stuff? But

I think they're very tied together. I

think you would never separate it

because let's say like a a you know that

action for example that the whole

roaming thing that's his view of the

game but it's also tied to action as

well. That's why he's doing it. He knows

if he's playing Lulu support he's not

doing you know what that

so they're really tied together.

>> Even something like windcon assessment

is going to change based on a champion

you're playing right? Like what you can

and can't get done in the game.

>> Well that's what OTPs are really good

at, right? their view of the game and

the way they play the game is fully tied

to their champion because they can't

just go play another champion at a

different role and be the same skill

level as they it's just not possible.

>> This is maybe on a slightly unrelated

note, but I remember laughing a lot at

Nie's good old um live coaching back in

the day, right? Where he would like rage

at people when they're like, "Why are

you not hitting the wave?" Right? And in

a way, what he's trying to get across, I

think N's this was his way of getting

across stage three things. Yeah,

>> he was getting across the the the

urgency of things like efficiency and

stuff. He couldn't articulate why, but

his way of live coaching in a way was

trying to actually get across stage

three.

>> Trying to expose where someone's

attention is and where it should be

>> and get them to wake up.

>> Yeah. Get to It's so funny cuz the whole

wake up like army drill like style was

was actually what it was doing was

exactly right. It was highlighting your

attention here, but it needs to be

[ __ ] over here, you know, but in

obviously a really dramatic way. So, you

can tell he actually was trying to fix

stage three issues, but in a in

obviously like a crazy way.

>> This was ahead of his time.

>> Probably a lot more than the coaches at

that time as well. 100% agree

>> cuz he just knew that the players needed

more than just a behavior change like

don't click here, click here. He knew

that it was like there's another layer

there. And again, he didn't know how to

articulate it, but he had the right idea

of like trying to wake them up, per se.

>> Yeah. I mean, that's that's one of the

benefits of live coaching. I think

that's why we do include live coaching

in our boot camps.

>> Oh, that's the X factor of boot camps. I

would say boot camps what what they do

because a coach is seeing your gameplay

for an entire block is that the coach

really gets to put themselves in the

mind of you during an entire block. So,

they can really expose stage three

problems. Yeah. Right. Because sometimes

in themies it might take two sessions,

three sessions to peel back some of the

layers and really get to the root cause

of what's actually going on. You know

what I mean? Not always, but sometimes.

>> So I I think it's good to get into some

potential stage three issues, right? So

we've got a few examples here, right? So

fighting without R, Nathan's favorite,

no R, no fight.

>> Well, this is an interesting one. All

right, because a lot of people would

think this is just like a decision,

right? stage two, right? So, can you

guys elaborate why would be fighting

without R could potenti Why could that

potentially be a stage three problem?

>> Well, I think to go back a step, it

fighting without R is largely a problem

if it's aligned with a champion's

reference points, right? So, a champ a

reference point for a champion. We said

this a few times. It's basically like um

it's a guiding principle based on a

champion's inherent strengths and

weaknesses and its identity. So, like if

I'm playing Misfortune, for example,

part of her identity is her ulti. her

kit is loaded in that way. Whereas

someone like let's say like a Jinx for

example, her ulti is not actually that

important. It's not actually part of her

identity as much as it is with

Misfortune. So if I'm playing Jinx and I

fight without my R, I'm not that fast.

If I fight without my R is Misfortune,

that's terrible from a stage three

context because and as an MF player, you

should have internalized that I am my

alt. That's that's the difference. And

to go further here, when we say look at

a VOD and we see someone opt in at that

MF, opt in for that fight without R,

there are two different potential

problems. The the MF is hyper aware of

the reference point of the R and is

actively choosing in spite of that to

take the fight where maybe it's not a

stage three issue, in which case it

would be a stage two or stage one issue.

Or they don't even know that reference

point. They've actually got a wrong

sense of prioritization. and they don't

know the champ's identity and they don't

know the reference points whereby it's

not a stage two or stage one, it's

probably highly likely a stage three

problem. So, this is where as a coach,

right, what we're trying to do is we're

trying to dig the layers and be and ask

some questions sometimes. Were you

actively taking this fight knowing

>> how important your R was, knowing that

you didn't have R or did you just

stumble into the [ __ ] fight cuz you

just want to compensate for your team?

You see what I mean? So these all all

these examples we're about to say can be

stage three issues, but they're not they

may not always be stage three issues. I

want to make that very clear.

>> So we've got like tape taking the wrong

type of trades. A really common one I

always see or hear in coaching sessions

from youth laners is uh extended

especially bot lane extended trades

versus short trades.

>> What about the Garen trades Nathan from

your Garen journey? What did you used to

do as Garen?

>> What did I used to do as Garren?

>> Do you remember the press Q and run at

them?

>> Is that what I didn't do? That's what

you did do.

>> Oh yeah.

>> Do you don't remember? You don't

remember this? But he would press Q and

use the guaran movement speed to try and

get in range of like a set or something

to go fight him with the most

telegraphed trade in the world. So it's

trading in such a way that doesn't align

with what your champion is meant to do,

right? So taking an extended fight as a

misfortune. Taking any sort of a trade

as Twitch is probably not the hottest

trade in the world. Like taking a like

an extended fight as Lucian after your

combos, you know, as a mage, fighting on

your spells are down. This sort of

thing. Just not understanding what makes

a good and bad fight for your champ. And

this is a really important um stage

three thing, right? Because there are

again if you don't know what you're

trying to achieve with your trade. So

for example, like again, if you're

playing a Yaso, I want that extended

trade if I'm going lethal tempo. And if

if I heard that reference point, that's

going to change how I use my abilities

in lane, right? It's going to change my

mindset maybe where I want the wave. So

notice how again this is really

fascinating. You know, we a lot of

coaches talk about fundamentals. They

talk about, you know, wave management,

resets, warding, yada yada yada.

>> Well, if you know what you're trying to

achieve, the fundamentals automatically

make a little bit more sense, right? As

a Yaso player, if they're thinking, hm,

my champion is really good at taking

extended trades down the long lane with

lethal tempo. Then, hm, I wonder where I

should have the wave,

>> they're going to start thinking maybe,

okay, yeah, no [ __ ] I should have the

wave on my side. Or if I'm in a mobile

mage that really needs to keep up my

farm and I'm versing a high threat

jungler. Well, yeah, maybe I probably

should think about warding and leaning,

right? Warding and leaning would solve

the problem that you're fundamentally

trying to, you know, address. Yeah. I

mean, the next point, power trough,

fighting in power troughs. Like, this

just basically highlights why champion

identity is so much more important than

fundamentals to me. It just reminds me

of when we all made that Urgot guide

together who has one of the most like

obvious and overt power curves in the

game. And all of your decisions at every

level as Urgot can be dictated by the

champ's identity when it's good and when

it's bad.

>> And that helps you have a very

consistent replicable games to climb the

ladder. Because a lot of it, you know,

these reference points we talk about

there, you know, the guiding principles.

If you if you execute to these these

reference points, most of the time

you're going to get a long long way.

>> And this is why in our champion guides

in the WLMies, we we have whole sections

on mindset, right? this is the mindset

you need to adopt at this stage of the

game with your champion or this is the

mindset you should adopt in fights with

your champion, right? Because that

carries a lot of your decisions.

>> You just go to a VOD, you play, you

watch the guide in the WL Academy and

then you go and you play that champion

and then you just see was every decision

here mark those reference points and I

guarantee you there is going to be big

times where you're not

>> this next one Nathan fighting in the

wrong style. The classic brick wall

electric fence mindset. You open up the

VOD, you see an Udier running into the

enemy team. That's not because he

misunderstands that specific fight or

because he doesn't have understand what

the champions do or it's just a problem

with that sequence. It's literally like

your understanding of the champion Udier

and how he wants to play fights is just

fundamentally wrong.

>> Yeah, it it's it's really, you know,

nothing gets nothing's going to go well

if you're not playing with the right

mindset.

>> And this is good. This is exciting,

right? This is a fantastic thing that

Riot have done. Making the champions so

archetypal and the champions are so

embedded. They're so juiced. They're so

jacked with specific things.

>> They're so good at certain things.

>> Yeah. Swain is so [ __ ] good at

playing these fronts against melee

champs when he's in the thick of it.

Oriana is so good at dobbing and like

doing a bit of damage, kiting away,

being unkillable. Like Rexi is so good

at traversing terrain and like counter

ganking and doing all this stuff. But if

you don't do these things that the

champions are built for, you're going to

be in a world of pain

>> because the champions also are really

[ __ ]

>> Yes, that's exactly right.

>> It's like horrendous at certain things.

>> But it's so crazy like when we say it

out loud, how obvious is like play to

your identify what your champion's good

at and bad at and and play towards your

strengths and minimize your weaknesses.

But it sounds obvious.

>> It sounds obvious, but try and do that

for 30 minutes.

>> Yeah. Try and do that. Yes. In the face

of chaos where you're being constantly

asked questions of the enemy and your

own team. the famous Mike Tyson quote,

"Everyone's got a plan until you get

punched in the face."

>> And and the the funny thing is as well

is so many people don't even know,

right? They can even play a champion for

a long time and have fundamentally

incorrect interpretations of the champ

cuz they've just

>> I don't know, they haven't thought about

it critically or whatever.

>> I good example is um 610. I was talking

to him about his echo and he said that

even challenger players were challenger

echo players were saying echko's

completely trash. You can't you don't do

any damage to anyone. Um and then what

he realized is you need to literally

just not go on anyone that's like 100%

HP. You only go on them if like they're

chunked or 70% 7 HP. He could even have

the best flank in the entire world on

someone who's full HP and you don't

one-shot them because the way like the

passive thing works or whatever it is

you can like you know you do more damage

the lower they are whatever it is,

right? So he that he that completely

changed his mindset and we're talking

about, you know, he was playing echo,

but he's got to high elo with the

champion and he's they still don't know

what the champion actually is meant to

be doing. And that's what allowed him to

get to like I think he's like 3,500 LP

right now in ES like top 20 uh just from

having this mindset with the champion.

>> So I I would say this is also where we

we really we really recommend people

play champions with clear reference

points, right? Because the clearer the

reference points are, the the clearer it

is, you know exactly how to think as the

champion, where to direct your

attention, and what to execute and what

not to execute upon, right? So like

again, this is why champions that have

unclear reference points are hard to

play, right? Versatile champions that

are very loosey, goosey, can do a lot of

things typically are very tricky, right?

because you don't have those clearcut

well- definfined strengths and

weaknesses,

>> especially playing multiple complex

champions in the same pool because

you're constantly or or or contradictory

champions cuz it's whiplash going

between one game I'm playing Zer, next

game I'm playing Kalista. I had to

completely change my view of reality in

between those games, right?

>> Yep. Totally. So, also stage three as

well is like zooming out bigger picture

about the game holistically. Like what

is your role in this fight or team comp?

>> Um I will play a game very differently.

Let's say if I have some maybe some more

so scaling champions on my team versus

maybe some more early game champions

with pressure like I'll be looking more

so out for okay you know I know this

lane's going to be heavy trading so in

general I should sort of be rap but if

it doesn't happen it doesn't happen

right these are again guiding principles

in the game yeah so we've been talking a

lot about like champion reference points

and champion mindsets but yeah this

extends to win conditions right like as

you were saying and I think this is the

this can be a massive X factor

Specifically, again, when we're talking

like emerald and above,

>> like this is for a lot of people

listening to this that are plateaued in

emerald who do have champion mastery,

chances are you're not really having a

hypothesis in your games about what is

your role? How do you actually win this

game? Do you need to peel your AD carry?

Do you need to dive on the backline? Do

you need to create space? What do you

need to do?

>> Yeah, you've got like this 1v9 mindset

or whatever it is, but you actually do

need to think holistically about the

comp and win condition assessment. It

gets you a long way, especially in those

ranks. Yeah.

>> So, that's the next layer, right? So you

kind of slightly mentioned this earlier,

Nathan, like layer one is the champ,

layer two is the game in a way.

>> So how do you fix stage three issues,

Nathan?

>> So the lol states are really big. Uh lol

states for people that don't know it is

spelled L Ul. People don't think it's

LOL states like a lullaby.

Being lulled to sleep.

>> So this is like moments where there's

downtime in your game. Most obvious one

is you're running back to lane. You're

sitting thinking about zoom zooming

about bigger picture. Okay, what am I

meant to be doing this game? What does

my channel want to do? What's next?

>> Am I not meant to tab out, change my

Spotify playlist, respond to a quick

Discord message,

>> or think about what's for dinner,

walking back to your home?

>> My favorite.

>> Yeah. And this is important because it's

going to it's going to help you

prioritize where should I be directing

my attention, where should I not be

directing my attention,

>> and yeah, what information do I need to

gather? Yep. And we do this in our own

games even this is like how hard league

is. We know all this. We coach all this

but we need to use our L states to re

remember what's going on in the game or

zoom out big picture because the game's

so chaotic and the game's so hard and

there's so many variables happening in

the game. So we have to always in our

law states be reassessing and thinking

about the game bigger picture. It's you

always do it no matter what rank you're

doing. Yep. What rank you're in. So the

second point here we have reviewing and

asking why. So this is I want to kind of

yeah I mean I think you wrote this one

Charles did you write this one? I can't

even reviewing around and asking why.

So, I'm assuming what this means, I'm

just trying to jog my memory here, is

that you're getting into the details in

the postgame review and instead of just

looking at it at a surface level, like I

died here, but more so why did I do this

or like why, okay, if this is the

alternative play, why should I have done

that? How does that align with my

champions identity or reference points?

When your spikes are in the game, if you

don't know when your spikes are in the

game, that's a problem.

>> Yeah. And and and I think a lot of

people think again, they automatically

assume they have this information, but

they don't, right? They don't actually

they can't articulate it. And if you

can't articulate it, then it it doesn't

really matter.

>> Yeah. In general, how do I want to be

flame fights with my what is what is my

a lot of people actually just get stuck

on? They don't know their max damage

combo. They don't even know how to

maximize damage with their champion.

>> You know what else they they tunnel on

is they get tunnneled on what a bad game

looks like for their champion and all

the weaknesses of their champion, but

they don't accept like the strengths of

their pick. That happens a lot.

>> Yeah, cuz imagine if a champion had like

very little weaknesses.

>> If Sichuani

>> Okay.

>> Except for Rex. I don't I will I'll be

the first one to know. Rexai has the

some of the clearest weaknesses in the

>> That's what you say, Nathan. I don't

know.

>> Maybe people disagree.

>> Listen.

>> Um, okay. I do want to talk about here a

lot of people again who are struggling

who say they're not in their academy,

they don't have anyone telling them the

reference points.

>> Yeah. When you play the game, there are

going to be moments that feel very good

for your champion. Yeah. Right. You you

dominate this fight. It just felt super

or the game holistically just felt very

easy. Start to look at the champions.

Start to break down some of the fights.

What are some of the key highle themes

appearing here? Do they lack CC?

>> Do they were they really squishy? Were

they were you fighting around? Like what

made your ultimate feel this good in

this game? And vice versa. Compare that

to games that felt hard, scenarios that

felt tricky, scenarios that felt

uncomfortable. If you do this, you'll

start to realize things. Ah, yeah. These

scenarios where I don't have art, I just

feel [ __ ] Or when I don't have this

item, I feel like I do no damage. Or

when I'm paired with champions like

this, I really really struggle. And over

time, you can actually reverse engineer

your reference points, your your the way

your mindset, everything using emotions

as a guiding principle. This is how I

learned wond assessment. Just went game

and I hypothesized. I was a science

experiment science scientist and I was

had a you know a hypothesis and I had a

conclusion I test and learn test and

learn. That's how I learned wing

condition assessment. What felt good?

What's working in my game? So so it's

it's not just your champion um as well.

What feels good for your champion?

What's feeling good in this game? The

team comp, the enemy team comp, why you

know why is things going well.

>> And and I want to make it clear here.

Don't feel pressured to find the perfect

reference points or mindset.

>> Find what works for you. Yeah,

>> it mindsets and reference points that

might be okay from gold to platinum

>> or platinum to emerald. They may not

work from GM or or diamond to master,

but that's okay. You're going to evolve

it over time. Think of it as like a

Pokémon, right? Like you've got this

this maybe idea, this very rudimentary

idea of maybe what your champion's good

or bad at. You've got some rough ideas

and then as you get gain more experience

as a player, you put yourself in more

scenarios. you can refine it, tune it,

you get more experience, and then that

will change and you'll have different

you'll actually learn more about how the

champion should fundamentally play. So,

I don't want people to feel like, "Oh my

god, am I wrong?"

>> But if it works for you, it [ __ ]

works for you. It doesn't really matter

that much. Also, if you're worried about

being wrong about your champions

reference points, it's not out just yet,

but very soon we're going to be

releasing for free over 100 champions

reference points.

>> Yep. In early game and mid game.

>> Yeah. So, that's like seven or eight.

No, even more than that. Like 10 plus

reference points per champion for all

the champions. We have guides for across

all five roles. Something we've got all

of our coaches in we teach to kind of

contribute to because we have reference

point guides for every single champ in

themies as well as our long form uh

video guides as well. So yeah, stay

tuned for that probably coming out very

very soon. And then yeah, I mean a big

this summary for stage three like this

is where the big 20enters live in

gameplay. I'm even saying guys up until

like master plus like people have you

know we're not saying a diamond player

has no idea how played their champion

but there's some little moments of the

game or whatever they need some

refinement in terms of

>> definitely I mean mindset in terms of

their the way they should be thinking

about their their role in a game or

their mindset in terms of the wing

division mindset in terms of midame

prioritize there's so many mindsets and

thought processes and views of the game

that I mean you're spot on even master

plus

>> so that's where the opportunity to join

we teach league is you know the guides

in there solves the stage three and also

coaching is very big with in the that we

teach league academy. So moving into

stage two, the uh this is in-game

decision making issues, right? So

>> this is where gaps in knowledge uh you

know are very very

>> prevalent. Um so look a lot of people I

would say straight off the bat

misdiagnose

>> stage three as stage two issues right so

when the average person average Joe blow

is looking at a vault they see someone

let's like using the MF example before

MF going into that fight and has no

ultimate choose to fight anyway they're

thinking oh that's just a stage issue

issue they fought without ultimate but

again this is where you got to be very

careful did that MF know they didn't

have ultimate knew that it's a big part

of their champions reference points and

actively choose to go in that direction

or did they not even know that

information?

>> So to clarify, so people think that

stage two issues, but they're actually

stage three issues. That's exactly

right. They're not even thinking

correctly with their champion anyway. So

there's, you know, no point thinking

they they'll do that every game anyway

because

>> they don't view the champion reference

or their view of the game is like going

for the kills type thing.

>> Exactly. Right. Yeah. Exactly. So they

might try and understand why they failed

to trade in this specific matchup, but

that's irrelevant in the because they

just play for kills every game anyway.

Somebody's going to trade regardless.

Yeah.

>> Stage two is the just decision making.

>> It's the sexiest part of League of

Legends and like coaching and any

improvement stuff like that. It's it's

the it's the very obvious things that's

just like, you know, I can insert some

of my knowledge into here, you know?

>> Yeah. Correct.

>> Yeah. This is where, you know, you think

of the old schooly like macro rotations

and lane assignments and lane swaps and,

you know,

>> rotations. Rotate. Yeah.

>> I love that word. Rotations.

>> Macro decision making.

>> Yeah. Exactly. Right. And and I think

the reason it's such a sexy part of the

league, you know, industry is because

>> it's there's no execution.

>> Right. It's just theory.

>> Stage one is not is not sexy unless

you're like, you know, a vain montage

or, you know, a royal king or something

like that.

>> Yeah. Stage two you can very easily

trick yourself. You can watch pro games

and point stuff out. Oh, they should

have gone top there instead of bot.

Yeah, I know. You know what I mean,

mate? Like, it can get pretty crazy. And

you can convince yourself that just

because you know it in hindsight, like

you know it. Yes. But there's a big

difference between like knowing it in

hindsight and then knowing it in the

moment.

>> So, this is where everyone gets so

tricked by watching higher low vods.

>> Yeah, exactly what I was going to say.

This is where no one's getting any

learnings watching.

>> Okay. So, like fun worse. They get worse

fast,

>> right? Because fundamentally, right, you

can anyone can watch MSI, watch watch an

MSI, watch Faker do this and be, oh

yeah, he should have done this instead.

But how would he know to make that

because they're not talking about how to

come to these decisions in real real

time and you know what sort of mindset

should they have been in to even make

that decision? It's just straight up in

hindsight. Isn't that very obvious?

Boom, boom, boom. And it and it's very

detached from reality. So, you know,

stage two is important, but I it's only

important once once you've got aligned

on where their attention should be

focused.

>> That's why it's the next part of the

pyramid.

>> Exactly. Right. So, let's use some

examples. Right. So, some classic stage

two issues are um not knowing whether or

not to rotate to a play. So, in mid

lane, it's a very common one where we're

talking about side lane roams. Okay, I'm

a mid laner. I've got my wave out. I

need to pan my camera to that lane, see

all the information, and make a

decision. Do I commit to the roam and

think think I can clean them up and kill

them, or is it a very low percentage

play I need to go back mid? That is a

decision that must be made. And I'm

gathering information. I'm assessing it,

making sense of it, and coming to a

conclusion. Okay? And that's where we

can start to get into decision-m. Yeah.

Why is that decision good? Why is that

decision maybe not optimal?

>> This is where what other champions do

comes into play a lot. what condition

are they in? Information gathering,

which is a big one, right? So, a lot of

in-game decision- making, and I'll pose

this question to you. How much of that

when when you see it is actually a

gathering problem as opposed to like a

processing problem? Cuz it was an

execution problem. It's a stage one,

>> but like

>> it happens all the time to me in

coaching sessions where it's like, well,

you made a poor decision in this moment,

but you were always going to make that

poor decision because you simply didn't

gather the information required to make

that decision. Well, and what percentage

of players do you think makes that up?

Like I think it depends on,

>> right?

>> It's even hard to say. Honestly, I don't

even have an answer cuz I I think it

varies. I I I would say

>> mo I would say definitely over 50% of

people I work with when when it's their

first session when they first start,

they're just not gathering enough

information. Past that point, once

they've had their first session and they

start getting used to using lol states

and gathering information, it very much

becomes very quickly just processing of

information.

>> They have the information, but they're

just making the wrong

And this is I would say the easy one of

the easiest

>> parts of League of Legends actually to

improve upon, right? Cuz I think

>> a lot of the time League's not a very

complex game when you actually isolate

instances and you have the information.

Like usually a lot of the time, for the

most part, in general,

>> it's like, okay, I can see if I had all

this information, that would be the

right decision. And why? Well, yes,

because your decision-m and your

conclusion doesn't have to be perfect.

That's why it's because like the perfect

is the enemy of the good when it comes

to improving your decision-m because

there are so many opportunities and so

many things you can do with your time.

Let's take shoving and moving in the mid

game as an example. You could push out a

side wave by slow pushing two waves and

then roaming. You could hard push one

wave and then roam. You could maybe

deploy straight out mid. And all of

these, yeah, there might be one optimal

one that's slightly better given that

precise game pace, game state rather,

but good things can happen after doing

any of those things as long as you make

the correct next decision, have a

correct next decision and keeping.

>> It's interesting because a lot of people

who get coaching think that this is

where all the attention is going to be

focused. But as coaches, it's probably

where the, you know, it's not the the

majority of our coaching sessions are

talking about this. Like there will be

moments where it's like, okay, here's a

dragon. Do we want to should we play for

this or not? But a lot of time like you

just said in it's like okay if you want

to play for dragon we can just ping it

communicate it get there but you can

also have just pinged it off and gone

top and that would have also been fine

as long as you make a decision and you

communicated it's fine and people are

very taken back by that they think no

but just what is the most optimal based

on just tell

>> that's the thing you tell them what's

better in this moment but they're not

going to get in that specific moment for

another important

>> so that's why the the higher that's why

the lower in the py this is higher in

the pyramid Because the the stage three,

the references, your view of the game,

all that sort of stuff, that's the

consistent thing. You can copy paste in

every single game, but these like

specific little macro things like, you

know, people always ask like, is Herold

better than Dragon, right? Or Dragon

better than Herold whatever, right? And

yeah, I could say in general, you know,

maybe Dragon Soul's more consistent for

your games, but you got to get specific

in that in that moment. And some a lot

of that advice, you know, in that

specific situation, you can't get Herold

or you can't get dragon, you have to

trade it off or whatever. So there are

some like things other things very

practical things here. For example, not

knowing how to jungle track first clear.

Great. That's like a big big thing you

can takeick off the box. You know, you

get your first ward down in Raptors,

learn how to jungle track first clear.

That's like a knowledge thing. Now you

know how to do it. Cool. Or

>> you've got Baron. How do you use the

Baron post getting Baron buff? If you

don't really want a 1 through one, you

probably want to play two lanes. Great.

Cool. These are like things you can tick

off the box very quickly. And a lot of

coaches,

>> if you want to get to an if you want to

fight an objective, try and get there

before it spawns.

>> Yeah. There's a lot of like just

knowledge checks. I feel like and I

think as a coach you know we can quickly

tick these off like boom yeah you know

that now you know that now but there

will come a point where you tick all the

you grab all the lowhanging fruit that

these very obvious knowledge checks are

gone and then this is where you need to

dig a little deeper. So again there are

a lot of great things here in stage two

but you don't want to live here too

long. You want to be very careful. Yeah,

I think um I just like the ace mentality

for solving a lot of these problems and

like getting better at stage two because

it allows you to get better at stage two

through a very adaptive lens and not be

too rigid around your finding. So eighth

mentality is like you step one you

acknowledge the best play or what you

think the best play is. Um step two is

you communicate the best play. So with

pings and body language and step three

is you embrace reality. And that

embracing of reality, that part of the

decision-m process is insanely important

to improving at League. It's not just

like open up my VOD, find out what the

best best answer was. It's like no, I

actually need to have a framework in the

game that I use to make decisions.

>> Yeah. The stage two is just a lot of

adaption. You know, this is where the

the chaotic nature of solic you're going

to be tested. You're you're stage two,

your decision making.

>> This is why we actually have in our

academy is the VOD question,

>> right? There's going to be a lot of

puzzles. We we call them puzzles, right?

you don't know what to do here. Should

you be going for this roam? Should you

not? Should you contest this dragon?

Should you not? Should you give Baron?

Should you not?

>> And sometimes it doesn't warrant a whole

review. You just want to get one clip,

you know, reviewed and get an answer.

And that's what we this is why why we

have this in ourmies. And I think that

um viewing if you really want to get

better at decision-m in League of

Legends, view them as as puzzles, but

try to find the underlying principles.

Okay. So, you know, obviously you were

talking before about jungle tracking

first clear. That's a very like, you

know, tried and true. It's not there's

not that much adaptation. You're getting

water raptors. You're going to know

where they're clearing. But then there's

a lot of other things in League, right,

where it's not really about the

decision. It's more about what are the

underlying variables of play. So, for

example, when it comes to roaming,

right, you're looking for volatility.

Are they heavy trading or are they not?

Does your team have setup?

>> Is your jungler on that side of the map

or not? Do you know where the enemy

jungler is? So these are four variables

that you can now plug and play those in

many many other scenarios. So I would

encourage people like when we when we as

coaches break down macro decisions, we

try to really spend a lot of time on

why.

>> Yeah. Some something I say in coaching

every time is where I'd be directing my

attention is. That's my opening

statement. And then I would say, okay,

on this deploy, where attending where

I'd be directing my attention is my

jungler is about to do a full clear. my

top laner is in base and my mid laner is

pushing outside. So given those things,

I will then take this course of action,

you know, but it's the inputs that

matter. So because there's it's all

about signal versus noise. There's a lot

happening on the rift. So being able to

know which bits of information to look

at and pass compared to what information

to ignore is is really important.

>> I'd also say stage two as well is like

if you stage three, that's like the

rules or following the rules, the

general rules. stage two. This is now

where we're breaking rules based on game

states based on the variables. Y but you

you know this is why it's you know again

above higher in the pyramid because you

can't be allowed to sort of break these

rules or whatever of your championship

investment points unless you are you

know getting specific with the

decision-m and thinking um you know

looking at the variables.

>> Yeah. So stage two I I would say most

people even without a coach can actually

make a lot of progress in this

department. Right? You if you're

genuinely curious and you're

open-minded, you could probably go to a

few tricky moments and take your time to

work your way through it. You might use

uh the reverse engineering method, for

example, whereby you go to a key pivotal

experience

>> that didn't look good. You go back in

time and try to identify, okay, well um

like when could I have actually how

would I have changed my behavior here?

What information would I have had to

gather? Um yada yada yada right? That

would be an example of doing that. But

>> the average person can get a lot of

value doing this. you don't need to have

a PhD in League of Legends to be able to

make just take one or two things away

from some of these scenarios. Um whereas

I think the the big X factor like

average the average person reviewing

their own games is going to struggle in

stage three. They may not be able to

glean a ton from a stage three

perspective.

>> Yeah. But also stage two they could

struggle with just gaps and knowledge.

They never know what to do in that

situation. Give that information what

the optimal play is.

>> But you can still figure it out. You

know,

>> you can definitely figure a lot a lot

out though. My favorite my favorite one

about how to fix these stage two issues

is the what we call the George Castanza

mindset. Now this is an episode in

Seinfeld where basically George does

he's really he has you know his life's

not too hot. He makes and he says okay

I'm going to my intuition is just

completely off cuz clearly

>> I've been wrong my whole life.

>> I've been wrong my whole life. I'm going

to just do the exact opposite of what my

intuition always tells me. and his life

just becomes amazing. And this is

actually how I learned leak. This is

very much I just would think, okay, I

did this in the game. What if I do the

complete opposite the next game with

like these, you know, conditions or the,

you know, with my champion or whatever.

>> So, in your case, it was like, okay,

instead of, you know, you viewed Rexi as

a full early game champion, what happens

if I pretend he's a scaling champion?

>> Yes.

>> And if I just just never gank and then

just play to full pop fullies on replay,

see what happens.

>> And then you get to find different

limits, right? And and this applies to

stage two because you say, "Okay, well,

usually I would just start I would go

for this roam, but you know what? My

games haven't been going so I'm actually

not going to roam. I'm going to say no

to all these plays and let's see if I

can get to 20 minutes being 00. See what

happens."

>> And then also my big brain is like my

big brain is for wing condition

assessment. Yes. Is just doing just

experimenting wing cons and who's good

at this comp and this view on that and

just think about the opposite. Very

large brain.

>> Uh we've got another one here. Oh, this

is a really good one. Viewing the VOD

from the through the enemy lens. This is

a very good review tool, by the way. You

know, a lot of people don't realize,

especially like fog of war and like, you

know, just look how easy you're making

the enemy just running at them

>> with jungle ganks. Like if you're the

enemy jungler, you'd gank you based on

what you've just done, you know? Okay,

so this is okay. So another way to view

the stage two problems, right, is if you

had all if you knew this information and

theoretically you're in this scenario

again,

>> you would know exactly what to do and

and and you would have a positive

outcome, right? And so what we're

talking about here is largely

anticipation. League is a game of

anticipation. So when it comes to a lot

of let's say trades, right? even it's

actually sometimes even less

>> stage one micro but more stage two.

You're choosing to take this trade at

this moment,

>> right? You're not timing your ability

like with the last that's a choice. You

know what I mean? That is that is a

choice.

>> I would say like the majority of trades

in lane going right or wrong is largely

three or stage three or four. Sorry.

Stage two or three. Exactly. Right.

Stage two or three. they're not actually

stage one because someone views missing

a skill shot as stage one when in

reality it's actually stage two a lot of

the time because the timing of their

trade doesn't actually make a lot of

sense. So when you're when we're working

on trading even we're working on matchup

understanding these are things that are

actually more so live in anticipation

land stage two land and re reviewing it

from their lens. If I was that zed or if

I was that Nami or if I was that

whatever, why would I do that? Why would

I use my abilities that way? Yeah.

Right. Because then you're developing

anticipation. So, I think a lot of

people so far, I don't want to I don't

want to get people twisted here, like

they're going to think it's all macro,

big picture, dragon calls, roams. No,

this is actually decisions in fights.

>> Yeah. Any sort of concept like trading

around cool downs, like certain levels

of threat assessment, you know, that

they're they're stage two problems.

>> Yeah. Exactly. Right. Um, and yeah, so I

I do think that there this where it get

can get a little bit confusing for

people because they're going to think

that's a micro, but I think it will make

more sense when we get into stage one.

>> So top of the pyramid here, stage one,

this is the actual execution. You've got

the knowledge, you know, we're going to

be, you know, executing it. And this is

like, you know, heavy micro stuff. Yeah.

So this is fundamental. You know exactly

what to do. It's the right call. It's

the right decision. you just fumble the

ball, right? Very, very simple, right?

So, some classic examples, right? Is

that it's the right decision to go for

your your your Ezreal Q,

>> timing it with the last it, you're in

the right position, you're in the right

place, you just place your cursor in the

wrong place. Yep.

>> Or you you whatever.

>> You went into this team fight, you

plant, you saved your Ezreal E to dodge

the incoming AI charm, but you just

didn't eat it.

>> Yep. Your attention was focused in the

right place. or you you fail flash into

a wall or you whiff your ultimate summon

and

>> it's a cannon.

>> Yeah, exactly right. So, this is where

your attention is focused in the right

place. You've got the right focuses, you

got the right reference points, you know

exactly what you're trying to achieve.

Everything's all the the stars are

aligned, but this when the last thing it

just comes in at clicking the goddamn

button correctly, you mess it up. It's

very interesting, right? The reason this

is at the top and such a minuscule part

of the learning journey is because if

you have all your ducks in a row, you

know exactly where to direct your

attention. You're anticipating, you

know, the mindset. You got everything in

place.

>> This is really easy.

>> The execution will kind of fall into

place for the most part. League of

Legends is largely a game of

anticipation.

>> Well, it depends. Here's where we might

have a bit of a conversation cuz I think

it depends on the champion that you

pick, right? I think for a lot of high

mechanics champions, it doesn't come

very naturally to a lot of people to be

able to execute them, even if they have

the right mindset. And also, it kind of

goes part and parcel with stage one and

two because the level of mechanical

execution makes you less likely to

execute on stage two issues because

you're going to be mental sack

overloaded.

>> But also, if you have a champion that

has complex reference points, you're

going to have a harder time executing on

your stage one stuff because you're

going to not be able to execute. So when

you get a champion that has both complex

reference points and is tough to play

mechanically, you're you are going to

make a lot of stage one problems and

stage two problems throughout the same

game. It's going to be kind of going

hand. No,

>> I tend to agree with that. Like for

example, you can be a um let's let's say

I'm thinking like a mechanically

intensive mid laner. Let's say for

example I'm playing Oriana or something,

right? My mentor's very very

overwhelmed. I can know what to do, but

landing skill shots on someone that is

dip ducking around can be very hard,

right? It's simple in hindsight, right,

with the actual theory, but it can be

very difficult to do because it's just

very mentally overwhelming, right? So, I

do agree with that. It's and I I want to

make make it clear like

>> I mean, maybe we do disagree. I do think

it is the easiest part of League of

Legends

>> regardless actually even of the champion

in terms of like if I even if you're

playing like okay so let me re let me

frame this carefully here I'm thinking

even of the most complex

mechanical champions who would you say

in in bot lane is the some of the most

mechanically demanding champions for

example

>> that Draven Gala

>> so this this is where maybe yeah so this

is where I AD carry and mid lane differ

because I think mechanic like AD carry

in team fights for example is really

really hard mechanically like the level

of mechanical competence

>> yeah I think is next level more so than

even midlaners because like you're just

way more vulnerable as an AD carry

you've got very limited peel and utility

whereas like I'm thinking of like the

most complex midlaners there maybe and

like mechanically maybe you got an Azir

or something like that I'm just thinking

like if you know how to think and you

know exactly what the key threats are

and you know what your mindset is yeah

I'm not saying it's super easy but

relative like if you have the right

mindset you know exactly how to think

and how to use your R and everything

>> you can still get a lot done you know

what I mean just because of your kit the

nature of your kit there's

>> the tools are present in your kit where

you can at least if you do this one

thing you're going to get this big bang

buck value but with ad carry there's no

big thing little check little check

little check little check constantly

>> but it's it's not that there's not a lot