He Sold Everything... Here’s What He’s Buying

Graham Stefen built his entire brand on

real estate, becoming the voice of

rental property investing on YouTube,

starting with a small $59,000 house

renovation and turning that into a

multi-million dollar empire. And now

he's selling it. Not one property. He's

not trimming his portfolio. He's selling

everything. And at the same time, he's

shutting down businesses, selling his

forever home, and essentially

simplifying his investments across the

board. When someone like Graham Stefen

walks away from the thing that made him,

you pay attention. What does he see that

everyone else is missing? Today on Dumb

Money, he sold everything and we're

going to show you what he's buying.

>> This is Dumb Money Live.

>> Hey there, Dave here along with Chris

and Jordan. We are Dumb Money. Welcome

to Dumb Money Live. Quick reminder, if

you don't mind, uh, smash the like

button for the almighty algorithm.

Graham would be very proud if you smash

that for us. Uh, thank you guys for

joining us this morning, especially

those of you trolling us in the live

chat for delaying this episode not once

but twice. Technical difficulties

scheduling on our end. You might you

might tell Chris is remote right now.

He's he's many time zones away in Hawaii

right now. I don't know if you can uh

fill us in on anything that you're

working on there.

>> Yeah, I'm uh I'm here for a reality type

I guess YouTube show. Uh, you had the

pick, Dave, that floating platform in

the middle of the ocean they built.

>> I haven't. I'll I'll try to pull that up

and we can we can show a little bit more

about what you're doing later in the

show. Yeah. But we do want to talk to

Graham Stefen selling everything. He

posted this video that got 240,000 views

on YouTube and a post on X that just

went crazy viral. Uh, 3.6 million views

so far. It's all about why he's selling

all of his remaining uh rental

properties in LA. uh and he he goes into

the financial reasons, the non-financial

reasons, the kind of broader context of

uh uh real estate in California,

but the thing we're most interested in

is what he's doing with the proceeds. Um

because he gives a lot of financial

reasons. We've been saying this for

years, real estate, it's it's it's

messy. It's timeconuming. It's not

liquid. Uh, and Graham finally realized

that his net cash flow after all of his

expenses and taxes, insurance,

maintenance, all of that, he's only

making like four to 5%. Which he says is

like, why am I why am I taking all of

this extra time and energy to do what I

could do with a Treasury bond, right?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. So, um, when you guys sent all

this stuff to me, I don't actually watch

Graham. So, like I thought that he was

like a I thought he was like a dividend

investor guy. I didn't realize he did

real estate. Is that bad?

>> It's It's been a while since uh you've

you've uh hung out with Graham. No,

Graham is the buy and hold S&P and he he

got his start in real estate and

continues to manage or or continued to

manage a bunch of properties in LA. Uh

but he's just buy the S&P and hold the

S&P and he's changing that. He's he's

he's come out with a whole new strategy.

So I we have things to talk about,

>> but basically LA real estate is not

passive. It is, you know, people talk

about passive investments. It is

anything but.

>> Oh, Dave, no real estate is passive.

Jordan, by the way, Graham makes you

look like a degenerate gambler uh in

terms of how conservative he is with his

money, which I always have thought was

just ridiculously too conservative. This

is this is such an awesome thing when I

saw that note go out because, you know,

every time we're around him or I I'm

always obviously,

you know, promoting get more aggressive,

dude. Get get into the stocks. Get

leverage, dude. get it. And I I felt I

felt like the transition was happening

even before he sent that note out. And

when he when he did the post, I was

like, "Yeah, it finally happened." But

>> full disclosure, Chris and I have been

on his podcast a couple of times. Chris

is on it all the time. And you are

continuously telling him, "Get more

aggressive. You are, you know, these are

your investments are basically you're

you're 95% in cash." Why? Well, the last

time I was there, he f he he he bought

Amazon at 197 right at the low. And he's

>> I know. And I think that's part of it.

Like he's just like, "What if I would

have been doing this a long time ago?"

But here's the thing. This is this is a

conversation. It's an argument that

we've been having with so many people

and so many friends for the last 20

years. And quite honestly, it was a

harder argument back in the day because

most of the appreciation, and I don't

think people truly understand this, I

don't even want to say most, but a good

chunk of the appreciation in buying

houses and renting them out for cash

flow. It's all about the the increase in

value of that home over time. It's not

about the actual cash flow because more

times than than not, the cash flow that

you're generating from a rental property

that you purchased is so much lower than

you think it is, okay? Because of

maintenance, vacancies, capex, uh,

surprises, property management fees.

There are a million things that will

eventually dent your cash flow and your

returns in residential real estate. And

when you really dig in deep with guys

that have been doing this for like 20

years and they're close to you, they

will whisper to you and they will admit

that after all the repairs, after all

the maintenance, all they're all like on

the edge of getting out of it like

because like it's not what you think it

is. They're like we we're actually

making our money

>> based on the appreciation of the real

estate. So even if the cash flow is zero

with when you account for the

maintenance and all the headaches and

all the BS you got to deal with. Even if

that's zero, they're still making like

singledigit mids singledigit returns on

the appreciation. But guys, and and

yeah, the dream on paper is that that

your renter pays for all of your costs

and then some and then you're going to

make this big bank when you actually

sell the property at some point in the

future. But in a market like LA, the

appreciation has not really been on the

trajectory that historically it has

been. So it's it's like

>> well really from what I understand the

benefit is the leverage, right? So you

can buy a property, you leverage 80% of

it and your renter is basically paying

off that 80%. And so that that's where

you make your money even if the value of

the property doesn't go up.

>> Well, you get all that debt paid for.

But Jordan, that's that that's that's

hidden risk, right? And this is what

we're talking about. Like I think real

estate gives you the illusion of safety

because it's tangible.

>> But the reality is is once you get into

that game, you're taking on a lot of

leverage usually. And when

>> a ton of leverage, nobody goes out

that's in this game and just pays500

or $700,000 for a rental house. they put

down, you know, $100,000 and the rest of

it's debt.

>> Correct. Um, but there there is a

tremendous amount of risk in that

leverage, especially when things go

wrong, the market reverses, you're still

having to pay for repairs and at some

point you even get trapped in these

homes that you have leverage in. It is

that that kind of like that black swan

risk that real estate investors don't

fully appreciate because it doesn't come

around that often. But the risk is real.

It's there. You are in a levered asset

that's completely eliquid. Okay? An

eliquid asset that you cannot get out of

quickly at all. Real estate looks really

safe, but often you're just hiding that

risk in the leverage and the illiquidity

that you have in that asset. And for two

decades, I've been telling people, yeah,

real estate's okay compared to doing

nothing with your money, but compared to

equities, you're not even playing the

same game. If if you would have taken

all that money that you were putting

into real estate and all that time and

you would have just thrown that into

aggressive equities over the past, dude,

I don't care. You're always winning with

equities. And guess what? Equities gets

you your life back. You have a 100% of

your time. Like, you're not doing any

work. There's no stress. Fully liquid.

Like, it it is insane to me that people

just their whole life is on the real

estate track as opposed to the equity

track. I love I love that even the

biggest real estate guy ever who's been

preaching this is like, I'm done. And I

know LA is the worst of the worst in

that market, but still, it's the same

way across the country. Dave, we have

real estate friends here in Texas.

They're they're doing the same thing.

They're getting out of real estate into

equities. Same exact thing. Well, if you

just do the math and look at your what

your returns would have been if if

Graham went back and looked at what he

would have done if he had sold all of

his properties in 2020 or in

2018, you know, it just it and all of

the the mental energy and stress that

went into what he actually tried to do

in LA was uh it was just

the numbers would be uh way different

had he had he taken our advice. long

ago. That's all that's all I can say.

>> So, my my four things that I want all

the real estate guys uh to know that are

kind of evaluating real estate versus,

you know, investing in equity, right?

With equity, with public market

equities, you get liquidity plus

optionality, and that always wins. Okay?

You can buy and sell anything instantly.

You have all of your liquidity. um you

have true compounding versus trapped

equity in real estate meaning the

equities are going to compound cleanly

with dividends price appreciation real

estate returns get eaten up by all the

vacancies the maintenance affairs the

property

>> manage financial instruments you can

hedge your investments also and

>> you're right you could you could always

hedge and it's really easy to hedge you

Jordan you have time leverage uh with

equity with stocks you have no

operational load with real estate it's a

full-time job or part-time job unless

you outsource it, which is again is

going to kill your returns and your

>> I rented a house out once and it was the

worst. It was the worst. I mean, it was

like it was it was phone calls on the

weekends, you know, it was constant

problems. It was something went wrong

with the house, so now we've got to

write a big check to a plumber or

whoever to come fix problems. You have

none of those issues with an equity.

Like people are going to call you and

say, "Hey, Jordan, you own a thousand

shares of Amazon. Uh, we need you to,

you know, we need to,

>> we need you to come repair the warehouse

door. The warehouse door is stuck. We

need you to come deal with that for us,

Jordan.

>> That's right.

>> But, but Jordan, the real estate guys

will never talk about that because they

don't they want it to seem like they're

in this great investment and they don't

want people to know how hard they're

working or all their until they do until

they come out and then when they crack

and they start telling you all this

stuff, they admit that man, I wish I

just never got involved in this because

it's not what I thought it was. But the

by the way the fourth thing is very

important simply better risk adjusted

returns. Okay you know broad-based

equities generally returning 10% uh

annualize over the long term. Real

estate looks safer but the truth is that

those returns are like mid to high

singledigit but roughly half of those

returns are from price appreciation. And

now that we're in a world where you can

no longer count on the price

appreciation coming from just everything

goes up up up in real estate, we've seen

that that's not true. There is a real

risk factor there that your total

returns for all the work and all the

risk and all the ili liquidity is low

single digits. Like you're doing all of

that for low single digits when you can

be getting double to maybe triple in the

market where your only work is on your

phone. You could be doing it from the

beach. You could be doing it from

anywhere in the world, right? You're not

a landlord.

>> Yeah. The other problem is you got

really big liquidity lumps, right? So,

um you know, when you sell a house, it's

a really big event, right? It could be

$500,000. It could be a million dollars

um that you're having to take out. Maybe

you didn't need that. Hey, with stocks,

you can just sell some. You just sell a

little bit, whatever you need.

>> You You're right. And listen, there's

all these unexpected things that are

happening now. And part of the reason

why real estate is getting crushed is,

you know, the cost to replace an HVAC

unit today versus eight years ago.

Massively more expensive. The cost to

basically do anything in terms of

maintenance and repairs on your home is

so much higher right now than it was 5

to 10 years ago. And these things are

absolutely crushing the guys that have

20, 30 houses out there that the bills

are coming in and the margins on what

you're making in that ROI are not large

enough to to handle the bump in in cost

of ownership for these landlords. It's

it's terrible.

So, I I love it. I love it that like

Graham came to that conclusion

completely on his own. And I it's not

just him. It's so many real estate guys

that I know that are doing the same

exact thing right now. They're they're

moving into the markets.

>> So, let's talk about what he's doing

with the proceeds because we are very

still very different than Graham. Graham

is still super conservative compared to

us. And if you guys haven't yet

subscribe to Graham's newsletter, I

would highly recommend it. It's

completely free. You can find it from

his expost. I subscribe and I have

broken down his exact portfolio and

we're going to reveal all of that and

we're going to compare it to ours, the

the exact percentages of of where he's

allocating his money and how we allocate

our money. So, I a little tease, but

he's basically he's passive. He's uh

diversified. He's, you know, he's always

been that S&P 500 buy and hold investor

and he still does a lot of that, but

he's he's starting to diversify a little

bit more. So I think that's that's

interesting and we need to talk about

that.

>> Uh let's see. Go ahead. Hit what is it?

What does he got?

>> So and and it's a long article so I've

summarized it so I don't don't have to

uh like parse through it but basically

Graham is going to be 40 to 45% in

stocks and generally that is S&P 500.

Those are US equities.

>> Now let's compare that to to us. I am

usually 110% in stocks because I use

margin to buy stocks and then

occasionally options on top of that.

Chris,

>> uh, I have to check my balance. I've

kind of come off margin a little bit.

Dude, I am not I'm being really really

conservative right now. This is actually

nuts. Oh, I guess I'm I'm not accounting

for the options though that I have.

Okay, just in terms of equity, I'm

obviously always at least 130% equity to

200% equity. So, at this moment, I'm

kind of at 140% equity, which is really

conservative for me. But that doesn't

include uh stock options that I have,

which you know, I have, as you guys

know, I've been playing Amazon options

for the last few weeks like a complete

degenerate.

and it's worked in my favor, but I have

anywhere between I would say five and

15%

maybe maybe at one point it was as high

as 20% of my entire liquid portfolio was

in Amazon options. So, and these are

options that are like at the money

expiring in a week or two or three. So,

you know, if Amazon goes down $1, I lose

10 to 20% of my entire portfolio. That's

how confident I've been in Amazon.

>> You're so leveraged that on the most

conservative day you're 130% and

sometimes you're 500%.

>> 200%. But if you add the options in

Yeah. I mean, you start adding the

options, I think you can make an

argument that I'm 300%

uh 300% equity

>> between between the equity, the the

margin, excuse me, between the equity uh

the margin balance and then the options

300%. Is at at my most degenerate

moments.

>> That's uh pretty pretty insane. And I

think this would be the time that you

say you're not a financial advisor and

this is not something that anybody at

home should try to play along with.

>> I mean, look at me. Who who would want

to copy trade this guy? You got to be

out of your mind. Uh, no. No. This this

is this is about our risk risk

tolerance. And if you've been watching

the show the last seven years, you know

that Jordan's risk tolerance is the

polar opposite of mine. Dave sits

somewhere in the middle. I don't know.

Graham probably I didn't think it was

possible, but Graham like is is beyond

where Jordan is in terms of

>> It sounds like he's um way less

aggressive than I am.

>> So, how aggressive are you right now,

Jordan?

>> Me? Uh yeah. So, what I tend to do

>> um is I keep about Chris is going to

freak out when I say this. I keep about

a decade of cash.

>> Oh jeez. So, a decade worth of living

expenses in cash and then I invest the

rest. Um,

you know, what percentage does that

shake out at? Uh, well, the market's

been going up, so less now. I don't

know. Probably I'm probably like

80% invested. Um,

but I also have I also, you know, I I do

stock options and stuff like that too in

an aggressive account. So that that

would push that up, you know, in uh in

notional, but

>> yeah, but somewhere around 80%.

>> Yeah, but I like I like to keep a

healthy cash position and it's not cash

cash. It's in a you know, it's in a

money market that returns

>> whatever four something percent.

>> And we we'll talk about cash because

that is a big holding for for Graham and

not such a big holding for me and Chris

and a decade worth for you, Jordan.

>> All right. You don't want to know what

mine is, Dave? I I I do have some cash

in my bank account. I

>> Yeah. How much cash do you have in your

bank account?

>> I keep between three to six Well, about

I'd say two to six months of cash is

what I have. And I've been really

fortunate the past four years to have

one of the greatest cash flowing

businesses on Earth. Uh a Pokemon trade

show called Collecticon. For those that

you have been following me, you know, we

started this about four and a half years

ago. It is it started in the back of a

banquet room of a hotel. Uh, I'm an

owner of Collecticon and a founder with

my three business partners. And if you

kind of Google Collecticon right now,

you can read the press release or the

Hollywood Reporter uh, news article that

came out a few days ago. We sold the

company to Ari Emanuel uh, and you know,

the same kind of entity that owns like

what WWE and and uh, MMA and all that

stuff. So, I no longer have any cash

flow coming from Collecticon. And by the

way, it has been

>> that was going to be I was going to talk

about that after the show because that

deserves a huge congratulations. Your

your sale of Collecticon. Uh we people

have been talking about it in the uh in

the live chat already.

>> That congratulations. You you've now uh

>> surpassed a new milestone. Well, well,

Dave, it is the biggest exit I've ever

had from a private company. And quite

honestly, it's how I've been able to be

so aggressive on Amazon the last few

weeks because I knew there was like a 70

then 80 then 90% chance of the deal

closing. And I was like, worst case

scenario, half of the money I make on

this deal is wiped out because I lost

out on those Amazon calls. But I

wouldn't have been as aggressive on

Amazon without knowing that that big

chunk of money was coming in. It did

close. It's awesome. And like it feels

great, but now I need to make that money

grow because my cash flow, guys, has

gone down by like 90%. My restaurants do

pretty well, but listen, restaurant bars

don't cash flow that much. Uh, so now

I'm back to the pulling money from my

brokerage account every couple months,

two to three months to support my

lifestyle, which Jordan, that would

drive you nut. You do the same thing, I

guess, Jordan, don't you? You have to

pull money because you don't have cash

flow. You You haven't had cash flow in a

long time, right?

>> Like cash.

>> Yeah, I know. So that's why you're so

conservative. I'm in the same boat as

you now.

>> I don't have my cash flow engine

anymore. Collecticon is gone.

>> So now I I I need to think about that

more intently. At least

>> I've been in that boat for a while.

>> You could buy the You could buy some

dividend stocks.

>> Uh well, no. I'm not doing that.

>> I'm not I'm not doing that. You know,

the way I think about my my my equities

is I always assume that it will go down

by 70%. So, the number in my head when I

look at my portfolio, I subtract 70%.

And that's the number and as long as I'm

comfortable with that number, I'm I'm

good.

>> Yeah. For me, I think about it like um

everything liquid, I feel comfortable

with it going down 50%. But that's

including a large

uh money market fund. But I so what I

think about really is that the 10 years

of cash is a let's say that we had like

a 2008 style happen right now.

>> I should have enough cash to get me

through without having to sell any

equities for that decade trough.

>> But you if you can afford that that as

such a like a mind you your mind can

just be at ease with that for me.

>> That's right. Yeah. I'm totally at ease

with the with them. If the market went

down 50%.

I would not think about it.

>> But then actually reduce your 10ear

runway to five years and put more uh of

your

>> Well, I would do that too. Yeah. So that

it's cash to put to work too, right?

>> But our stocks did go down 50% basically

a month ago. Like my portfolio was down

40%. The whole thing.

>> Oh, my portfolio was down like I mean

inclusive of everything like 5%. Oh,

Jordan, when my portfolio was down 40%,

that is when I double triple down on

>> I bought I didn't go insane, but I

bought when when the market dropped like

10%. I dro I bought a bunch of stuff.

>> The best buy that I had was ARM. Uh the

thing was up 30% since I bought.

>> But you didn't change your allocation

towards equities like like you're not

deeper in equities now because of that

drop.

>> Yes.

>> Oh, you are. Okay. Good. Good.

>> But you still have a 10ear runway in

cash. Huh?

>> But you still have a 10-year runway in

cash.

>> Yeah.

>> Even after Dave, there's a caveat though

that we're not thinking about with

Jordan. When he says 10 years of cash,

people don't actually understand how

little cash Jordan uses. He is the most

frugal. He's literally on gram level in

terms of frugality of lifestyle. He is

one of the most frugal lifestyle guys I

have ever known. He tweaks his sprinkler

system to save like $4 a month. Okay.

Like like Jordan, I don't even want to

know what you spend a month. It has got

to be so low. It is completely

ridiculous how cheap you are.

>> I I have a bit high. I probably don't

have as much expense as you do, Chris,

but I um think I'm in in between in

between you two, but I try to keep a

one-year buffer in my checking account

at all times just because. And I use my

uh I use the stock market as my cash

flow engine. So I don't I don't need an

actual cash flow engine. I'm just making

enough money in the stock market that I

keep replenishing and have a nice buffer

in my checking account.

>> I I think I'm in the same boat as you

now for the rest of my life, Dave. I

don't think I'll ever have cash flow

like I had the last four or five years.

Um

>> it's the way to do it. It's so much It's

so much better. I highly recommend it

now. Okay. So Graham is 45%ish

in US stocks. He's 25% in cash and

treasuries. But his biggest increase

here is international and emerging

markets. He is increasing for

diversification. He's seen strong recent

performance uh of 26% versus the S&P 16%

hedged against US stagnation with higher

growth potential from AI adoption and

lower baseline economies. He is putting

28% of his portfolio in international

emerging markets. How does that compare?

>> That is first of all, that is quite the

move for someone like him. That's really

aggressive.

>> Aggressive to me.

>> I Okay, so Jordan, I haven't gone in

deep on due diligence, but this is

actually a trade that I'm interested in.

If you really think deeply about AI,

automation, robotics,

how the world economy is going to change

over the next 20 years, there is a case

to be made that third world countries to

some extent will see some of the biggest

lift. Uh develop at least not maybe not

fully third world but like developmental

stage countries. I I saw a report that I

haven't had the time to read yet that

said Brazil was in the pole position to

benefit from the AI super cycle the next

couple of decades. I want to spend a lot

of time doing research before I make

that move. I'm assuming he has already.

It's interesting, guys. It It's really

interesting because all of a sudden,

you're democratizing intelligence.

You're democratizing the ability to, you

know, manufacture, right? You're

democratizing essentially everything.

And once you do that, you're getting rid

of the edge that you have or or third

world developmental stage countries are

able to do things that they could never

ever do because they just didn't have

the the intelligent population to

actually put things in motion. where in

an AI age

>> that intelligence just exists and it's

just freely available for any

government, any company, right? Like to

come in and and meaningfully improve uh

an economy. So I it's it's interesting.

I haven't done it yet.

>> It's something that I actually have done

and I've done it through ETFs instead of

trying to pick individual random stocks

in a market that I know nothing about.

>> Yeah, you can't. And a lot I mean like

trying to trade individual stocks

internationally on a large scale is

really hard.

>> Yeah. And so that it to me that's just

the easy button way of doing it where I

can I can be in that section of my

portfolio I would imagine will I I'm I'm

hoping grows faster than the S&P section

of my portfolio, but who knows? Um, but

I'm I would say I'm generally between

zero and 10% in international. Uh, I own

a property in Mexico, so that is not

really an investment, but that is a

chunk of money sitting in a developing

country. Um, but now I uh I'm

comfortably

10 to 15% in these emerging developing

international markets.

Jordan, are you in any at all?

>> What? International equities?

>> Yeah,

>> of course. Yeah. Um

>> like like developmental countries like

not just

>> Yeah, I mean China. So we got like C Web

um

>> ETF. Oh, at some point we need to come

back around to this subject uh when

we've done the research because it's an

interesting play here.

>> I think it's a Yeah, I think that could

be a whole show in itself. And speaking

of whole shows, Chris, I've noticed you

uh didn't retweet this episode.

>> Thank you, Dave. I'm I'm on I'm on

Hawaii

>> time here and my just not thinking.

>> We'll let you do that while we talk

about uh the next big chunk of Graham's

portfolio because that that pretty much

accounts for most of it. But he is

shifting from a tiny position to a

meaningful asymmetric bet on in

institutional inflows, ETF adoption,

debt uh deficit hedging on Bitcoin. He

is increasing likely to 10 uh 5 to 10%

of his portfolio allocated in Bitcoin.

>> We've kind of been in that low to high

single digits Bitcoin for a long time.

I'm at the lowest I've ever been in

Bitcoin. I want to say it's like 1% of

my portfolio right now. I'm not against

bring it up to two, maybe 3%.

But I don't necessarily I think there's

just too much opportunity in equities

right now with this AI super cycle.

There's I don't want to have money

sitting in an asset that's not directly

touching that super cycle.

>> Yeah. I mean Yeah. Yeah. Um, and with

Bitcoin, I'd rather just own assets that

are like Bitcoin related

coin like I've got Coinbase. I've got,

you know, um,

>> see, I actually do own Bitcoin. I've

I've held it for a long time. I I'm

holding it through this crypto winner,

although I did, uh, sell it and reby it

for the, uh, for the tax loss

harvesting. Uh, I am currently sitting

at 12% of my assets in crypto, primarily

Bitcoin. That's a lot, Dave.

>> Of my liquid investable assets.

>> Still, that sounds like a lot. I feel

like that's a lot even for you. It

>> is a lot. It is. I'm I'm more aggressive

than Graham on this. And you are the

least aggressive I've ever heard you

being in it

>> at 1%.

>> It when I become less excited about the

equities in my portfolio, I think I

would be open to having a larger Bitcoin

position. It's just I'm way too

hyped on this kind of we're still early

stage AI. I think the opportunities are

meaningful. I'm I'm leveraged and I just

want my money in other places right now

at least. I I think there's more upside

right now. But I don't know. The Bitcoin

people are gonna want a lot of Bitcoin.

>> How much uh how much are you in uh

CryptoKitties these days,

>> dude? I I've exited, you killed this,

all all of my NFTts are are are have

were sold uh shortly after the NFT

market started to come down. I I I'm net

positive on my NFT journey. The only

ones I kept are the ones that are super

special to me that I won't sell at any

price. Not that it matters anymore

because they're pennies on the dollar,

but but I love them and it was part of

that part of my life. And uh

>> but you haven't sold your Crypto Punk.

>> Well, no. I I h I do have a few crypto

punks and I think I am more likely to

buy more than to sell over the long

term. I think crypto punks will come

back. I know you think I'm nuts. I think

they will come back at some point in

time. It could be 15 or 20 years.

>> I can't tell you how glad I am to not

hear about NFTTS every day.

>> You hated those episodes so much,

Jordan.

>> I hate everything about NFTTS.

>> He He thought we And we were a little

insane. I was a little insane. a little

insane. I was I think I was very

levelheaded on that knowing that

anything I put into an NFT is flushing

money down the toilet, but there's some

fun in owning. I have one Crypto Punk. I

have uh that Logan Paul uh project. I

have I I still have uh the Polaroids

that have NFTTS attached to them. Well,

well, now the new man, all the guys that

were into that are now into uh the

pre-199

Japanese manga magazines. There's like

four that that's where all the appro

Dude, they're up like 700% in six

months. Okay, that's where you want to

put your money buying those manga. Now,

I think Graham's going to get into

you're going to get into this because

some of his stuff is in collectibles.

I'm actually kind of cautious on the

collectible market, but that pre99

Japanese manga that all the influencers

and content creators have been

accumulating, that is interesting. If I

was going to be in a collectible right

now, that's where I'd be putting my

money. Um, because they they just became

great. For those of y'all that don't

know, like the history of comics, right?

comics were kind of like the baseline IP

for all the Marvel movies and all the

cinema that we saw on on on all that

stuff, right? Superman, this that, all

that for 30 or 40 years. Well, now the

new hot thing is Pokemon and One Piece.

Well, the the base IP for how all those

things came to life were basically a few

years, like four or five years of these

Japanese manga uh like magazines or like

really thick magazines and and they were

basically worthless up until, you know,

this last year and people started

collecting them because they were graded

gradable for the first time. So now for

the first time this last year, the big

grading services will actually grade

these mangas the same way they do with

like comic books or Pokemon cards. So

you're seeing a massive lift in the

valuation and attention to Japanese

manga. So yeah, that that's kind of the

insiders alpha on collectibles right now

>> coming from the guy who just sold

Collecticon. That's that's some good

scoop. I might not have any alpha a year

from now, but I I I just sold this thing

a week ago, so I still have some alpha.

I'm still on the inside. Uh that and and

I think dinosaur bone dinosaur bones. A

lot of these guys are I I These guys are

crazy with their dinosaur bones. That's

another thing they're all buying, right?

>> I almost bought a dinosaur bone when I

was on vacation one time.

>> Like a real dinosaur bone.

>> Yeah, like a like a fossil.

>> Shouldn't that be a museum or something?

>> No, you're supposed to. Yeah. I I I

don't I do not own, if anyone's

wondering, I do not own a fossilized

dinosaur. There's not one in my house.

>> I don't think they have to be in the

museum. No, you could you can collect

them.

>> No, you can. And actually, you can if

you if you discover it and you dig it up

yourself, you can absolutely uh keep it.

>> Yeah.

>> This is the age of abundance that we're

talking about.

>> So many pieces, right? Um

>> I want a fully assembled T-Rex in my uh

in my atrium. That's that's what I

really want. It might it might fit

there.

>> You can you you can absolutely

>> like wrap around, but

>> yeah. No, not not at the in my Mexico

house because it has a doublestory large

20 by 20 room that uh I I would really

like to have a T-Rex there.

>> Oh, in the Mexico house.

>> Mhm.

>> Oh, okay.

>> Uh so I don't have any collectibles.

Chris, do you still have any uh Pokemon

cards or any anything that you would

consider collectible?

Yes, I have some stuff. So, because I

was having to do all these all these uh

collect collect shows the last five

years. So, I was traveling the country

basically just a thousand tables trading

Pokemon and all this other stuff. I

decided at one point in time that I was

going to corner

uh the market for uh there's these

Disney cards that came out and I

basically corned the market for Elsas.

So I have like more of these Elsa cards.

We're talking like six figures of Elsa

cards and I'm thinking about kind of

diversifying out of that. I also have

some sports card stuff that I want to

get out of. I'm actually not a big

believer in sports cards. I think that,

you know, they peak and trough based on

the age of the collector who was most

interested in those years of sports. So,

I don't love it as a long-term

investment. I'm just not a even though I

own Collecticon, I'm not a collectibles

guy. Like, I'm just not uh you know what

I like. I like

>> you surprised me all the time with

collecting uh cornering the market on

Elsa cards.

>> I It was

>> I would have never I would have never

guessed that about you.

>> I was bored and I had to spend so much

time at these shows. I just figured I

might as well get into something. And

there is a new Frozen movie coming out

in like 18 uh two years, a year or two.

And I think that will be the perfect

exit window uh for this Elsa collection

that I have built up over the past few

years. So, so we we we'll see. I mean, I

was just doing it for fun on the side,

but I'm getting out of all collectibles

now. Now that I'm out of collect, I'm

I'm getting out of all collectibles. I'm

done.

>> So, Graham Graham says that his uh

percentage of portfolio, it's just a

small hobby for him. collectibles uh are

basically passion assets that that do

have potential ROI like his 2005 Ford GT

is up 65%. Uh but he's very selective uh

analog uh he he's into Disney sells

supercars that sort of thing. Uh but it

is not something that he considers a uh

core to his investment portfolio. Um but

he does enjoy the drive for free

appreciation of his collectible

vehicles. I think he loves them though.

I think the thing is when you

>> He does and his his garage and his his

new space is basically all garage.

>> I listen if if you get enjoyment out of

collectibles and the appreciation if it

happens is just a bonus for you, right?

So I I I get why people love doing that

stuff. It's just it's just not for me.

My collectibles are are are stock

tickers or option tickers.

That's was what I like to call

>> you collect stocks. I collect stocks and

then I trade them out for different

stocks when I when I get bored with one.

>> Boom. And you you could see

>> so much it's so much more intuitive to

me.

>> Yeah. I can't even think about owning

cars. Like I'd rather just own

companies.

>> Yeah.

>> I get no enjoyment out of cars though.

To me, I look at a car and I'm like gh I

got to drive somewhere car.

>> I only enjoy ownership if it fits inside

of my phone. If I can't I don't want

physical

>> I don't want physical anything.

Okay. So, this last category for Graham

and this is uh this is one that I think

is interesting for us to talk about

because of our history with it. Private

equity. Graham says that he is

minimizing and exiting private equity.

It he calls it a big regret. Uh he says

it's illquid. It's a tax hassle. There's

discounts on the on exits. Now, he's

going to avoid anything that is not

tradable within weeks. I've heard some

things that private equity that there's

like a there was a big private equity

boom and that there's going to be a real

problem when these private equity firms

start trying to turn out of all the

different rollups that they've done. Um

I you know I I don't know what they do.

Do they have to try to take them public

now? Do they um you know I think they're

running out of other firms to sell them

to.

To me, that's kind of the biggest risk

of private investing in general. When

there was a market for it and people

were and there like there was new rounds

and there's always an opportunity to

sell. That's one thing. We're not in

that world now, right?

>> And other than somehow going public, all

of these things that are sitting in my

balance sheet of private investments are

basically written down to near nothing.

>> But some of these things seem really

weird to go public. Like there are

private equity firms who specialize in

like dentist offices, right? And so

you're going to send public like a

random collection of family dentist

offices.

>> I feel like those are just cash flow

businesses for the

>> Yeah. You just hold on to them and flow

the cash.

>> Yeah. And hopefully they pay dividends

at some point.

>> Yeah.

>> But at some point you have to return uh

money to to the equity holders in the

private equity fund.

>> Well Well, first of all, when we use the

word private equity, it means so many

different things. I I think the the

private equity that you're referring to,

Jordan, where they're essentially

aggregating dentist offices or vets,

>> I I think that's still probably a great

business. I think it's going to generate

great returns uh for people that are

invested in that type of private equity.

But the private equity has expanded so

much the last 10 or 15 years because

there's been so much money pumped into

the sector that they're getting outside

of their wheelhouse and they're just

starting to throw money into sectors

because they have so much money. And the

problem with any private investment is

that when you're going through a period

of time like we are now with this AI

super cycle, the world is changing

faster than we've ever seen it change.

And if you're invested in a business

that you can't get out of, that business

might lose its relevancy or the e the

the economic conditions that that

business operates under might radically

change due to something like AI. So

there is a big chunk of the private

equity sector that's invested in

businesses not understanding that the

world was going to change so quickly and

a lot of these businesses might get

their valuations destroyed the same way

that we've seen SAS valuations get

destroyed in public equities. The

difference is they can't exit. So if you

don't like being in Salesforce and

you're like this is a risk that we're in

this AI age, you could have just sold

your Salesforce three months ago or six

months ago. But if you have the

equivalent type of holding inside of a

basket of private companies in a private

equity fund, you can't necessarily get

out of that. And that's that's the

issue. It's similar to what we were

saying about real estate. People don't

fully appreciate how amazing liquidity

is in public equities. I've been

preaching this my entire life. The fact

that you can radically change in and out

of all of your portfolio in a

millisecond at any moment in time is so

valuable and people just underappreciate

how valuable that is except during times

like this. because we have a close

friend that was invested in one of what

the largest most prominent uh private uh

real estate uh funds in the state of

Texas, right? So all the big money

historically has been thrown into these

huge real estate funds where they would

own real estate all around the world and

they would develop properties. Well, we

saw what happened to commercial real

estate the last five or six years.

Massive freeze on commercial real estate

for a number of reasons. Part of it due

from work from home, part of it due to

escalating interest rates, uh part of it

due to uh construction cost uh

accelerating beyond what anybody thought

was possible. So, a lot of these funds

that were considered somewhat safe went

belly up. And we have a close friend

that literally lost a 100% of his m of

his money across all of the funds that

he had invested through this massive

institutional real estate, commercial

real estate. uh fund company, right? And

that's just not something that any of

these investors thought was possible and

they couldn't exit. There was no way to

get out.

>> Yeah.

>> Right.

>> Now, okay, there there's a new form of

investing. A question from the chat.

This is uh Nate wants to know what you

think about the Robin Hood Ventures

Index, which is which is a fund

basically. Uh and I bought it and I'm up

20% in it since it launched. Um it is

basically it buys startup companies. uh

preipo like datab bricks, revolt, maror,

airwalls, boom, supersonic, ramp, aura.

>> Wait, do they own actual shares?

>> They own Yeah, they own actual shares or

various uh instruments that represent

shares and you can buy it and sell it.

>> You say various instruments that

represent shares

>> or like SPVS and things. Um

>> yeah. Yeah,

>> they they may not because shares may not

actually exist or they may have a

contractual uh right to buy the shares,

that sort of thing.

>> I think I think it came from a good

place in that Robin Hood and Bahad are

frustrated that

regular investors, right, retail

investors get locked out of latestage

private investments, right, and then

they have to wait until the company IPOs

and they have to buy.

>> I think everybody should be frustrated

by this that Yeah. the public companies

you have access to is a fraction of all

of the cool companies that are out there

right now. Look, if and think about if

Andre were a public company right now,

what it would be doing, right?

>> Of course. But but Jordan,

>> I mean Dave, I would like it better if I

could just invest in individ individual

companies as opposed to the fund. What I

do love about it, I don't know the exact

terms, but I believe there's a 0% carry.

So, he's doing no carry on it, which is

very different from if you want to try

to get into those companies through a

private fund and you're paying a 10 or

20% carry. So,

>> so they have they have a an expense

ratio of 2.13%

until August and then a management fee

uh

>> uh of from 2 to 1%.

>> Annualized,

>> I believe. So, I' I'd have to more into

the details. It It seemed

>> reasonable. It was not like a 2 and 20

>> or 10 and 20.

>> It wasn't just a fee. It's just an

annual fee.

>> Yeah. normally you'll pay that fee plus

a 20% carry. So, at least he's not doing

a carry and and and that and that's

great. The difference I think is that

like I like to know the companies I'm

investing in and and I want to I don't

love investing in just like a blanket

>> a basket. Yeah. Yeah. A basket. Like I

>> you like to be able to pick and choose

your stocks, but these are stocks that

are not stocks that you can't buy

otherwise. And it's an interesting

concept to me to uh to allow individuals

to invest. And like I said, just full

disclosure, I did buy it. Uh and my

buying it has no impact on the price

because it's these priced elements

within it. And yeah.

>> Um yeah, I'm I'm neutral on it. Like I

said, I I want to pick individual stocks

and I want to be able to lever in and

out of them and quickly and all that

stuff. Uh,

>> I wonder if I wonder what the

maintenance rate if I can actually

margin on top of this.

>> That would be interesting.

>> Um,

what else guys? Is that his whole is

that his whole portfolio then?

>> That is his whole portfolio. Um, he

wants to be liquid. He wants to not have

any California real estate overall. He's

wants to be more aggressive on equities

and Bitcoin uh with less cash drag,

simpler liquid portfolio.

uh and he basically just wants fewer

moving parts. He doesn't want to have to

deal with uh returns that that are being

killed by expenses and taxes.

>> Did he mention a triple leverage ETF in

there?

>> He didn't mention that that I that I saw

the one the one that my entire

>> allocation to triple Q.

>> I I keep my entire uh retirement

portfolio in a triple leveraged uh ETF

at all times. whole thing. The whole

thing. I only keep 20% of my retirement

portfolio in that triple leverage ETF.

I listen Dave, we did the research on

it. Like on paper, theoretically,

we shouldn't lose all of our money and

it should theoretically generate 2x

returns even though it's a triple

leverage ETF after fees. Uh it should

generate about 2x returns theoretically

over the long term. uh if we don't have

the biggest crash in history and even

then

there's a chance it can come out and it

would likely recover it and

theoretically give us

>> theoretically because it's already gone

up so much that it would recover. Now I

I misspoke. I'm not 100%. I do have uh

some Robin Hood shares in that as well.

I I'm in I'm primarily in the leveraged

fund, but I do have some Robin Hood

shares that I think were given to me for

moving money to Robin Hood, but

otherwise it's fully in a leveraged ETF

currently in the leveraged uh uh UPRO,

which is uh the S&P 500. Uh I the one

thing I I I wish you know Graham would

do at some point and I wish a lot of

people would do publicly is talk about

having that higher risk higher reward

big money bucket separate account. Yeah.

Where they are investing in options

right and they are investing with

leverage. Maybe you know they're they're

in that triple leverage ETF. they're

maybe they're taking, you know, they're

buying options on high conviction trades

like what I did with Amazon the last few

weeks. Um, if you bucket that money

totally separately and just designate a

different type of money to go into that

bucket knowing that it could

theoretically get wiped out. I think

everyone needs to have that and it's

just frustrating that we we still don't

think that way as retail investors. We

still lump all of our money together and

we're afraid to take these big risks

because guys, what happened with me and

Amazon the last few weeks, as I've been

saying, you get one call right like

that. I I did it last year with Nvidia,

remember? And Robin Hood, you do that

one time in your life. You make one big

call that you're willing to put the

money in super leveraged and you get it

right and you become a top 1% investor

over your entire life just from getting

that one call right. That's how big of a

difference maker it has. and and it

could be years before you get that

confident around a particular company

and a time frame, but you want to have

money bucketed for that moment in time

so that you can go all in because like

you guys know what I did on Amazon. It

was insane.

>> It was insane.

And

>> your timing on that was uh just

miraculous and not because you knew

anything or had any you just you were

just had a very strong conviction that

Amazon should go up because of where we

are in the AI cycle and you just went

all in

>> guys when when the market hit its bottom

and it was the most like the worst of

the worst weeks. I don't remember was it

a few weeks ago, a couple weeks ago, uh

my account was down like 40% and I went

all in on Amazon options. My Amazon

options I think were up to as much as

40% of my entire full portfolio where

Amazon. So I was prepared to lose

another 40% of my liquid net worth.

>> But you had this check coming in from

Collecticon. You you you took risk. You

took risk when you had a very high

likelihood of having a a replenishment

event for any losses.

>> But even then, it would have been like

half of that check if I huge massive

amount of money.

>> Okay. So, tell us where where you think

Amazon goes from here.

>> We're going to talk individual stocks.

The the chat has been blowing up saying

you guys are stop talking about

collectibles. Tell me about stocks. So,

let's let's go Amazon. Where does Amazon

go from here?

>> I I still love it. I love it just as

much as I loved it at $198.

Uh where I kind of went all in. I went

all in more at like two some 205 and

then more at 215. It's at what 260 now.

258. I don't know.

>> I don't care to 300.

>> I don't even care.

>> Susa wants to know.

>> I'm all in. I'm all in. I'm not

>> 26343.

>> What I do, guys, is I continue to roll

up my options. So I basically take we've

talked about this in the past,

>> but you're not you're not still that

deep like 40% of your portfolio in

Amazon options. You've

>> No, because back

>> what I'm doing is I'm rolling my options

up. So I'm I'm selling my options. I'm

taking the profits and then I'm taking

some portion of those profits to

purchase new options at a higher strike

price obviously because Amazon keeps

going up. So I've essentially

>> taken the gains. Those are my gains. I'm

not losing them. I'm taking a part of

the profits to reup in new Amazon

options.

>> What would you just ballpark your

current Amazon option percentage out of

your total portfolio?

>> Uh I would say 5% right now today.

>> All right. That that may I I'll be able

to sleep better at night knowing it's

only 5% and not 40%.

>> Uh but I could get excited tomorrow and

it could go up to 10 or 15%.

>> I know that's that's what worries me.

All right. What are your What are your

thoughts on uh Robin Hood near-term?

>> Love it. Love it. Love it. Oh. Oh. Oh.

Near-term. I don't have any like super

strong thoughts on it like this week or

next week. Love it long term. I love

being able to buy it down here. I went

deeper into Robin Hood at 70.

>> Uh I think I just picked up some more

calls this morning. So like I just want

to be heavier Robin Hood, but not for

the week or for the month. This is like

I don't I don't know when Robin Hood's

going to pop again. It could be six

months from now. I don't care. I want to

have a bigger position in Robin Hood

long term.

>> You're in long. You're in for the long

term on Robin Hood. I'm in Robin Hood

for the long term.

>> Let's talk about AMD.

Michael Levescu. I'm I can't read these

names. It's too small.

>> Um, yeah, I have AMD. It's part of my AI

sector trade. I have a handful of

companies like Micron, AMD. I don't I

think I accidentally sold my Intel. It

makes me sick because I like I was

running out of money and I needed money

because my margin was capping out on

that Amazon trade. So, I was forced

>> like what is what is the what is the

dirtiest name in my portfolio? Intel.

>> Yeah. Well, it's just like

>> and then it just rocketed.

>> I had to I had to pick something and I

picked Intel to sell and of course

Intel's flying. Uh I have AMD, listen,

great. Like it's part of my sector, my

AI super trade, but it's not the one I'm

going heaviest in on. Uh, Micron. I I

love I love all of the uh memory

companies. Did you guys have you did you

see uh uh

>> SanDisk keeps just going crazy?

>> Uh Raku, the Japanese company we did a

show on. Dude, it's almost doubled. It's

crazy, dude. This is the imaging company

in Japan that basically uh is a healthc

care company, but they have imaging

equipment that they're repurposing to to

check the circuitry in AI chips before

they head to the data center. They're

one of like two companies in the world

that does this. Uh this the we did a

whole episode on this I don't know a

month or two ago and since we did that

episode the stock is up like 70%. Um

astonishing. Unfortunately, I couldn't

get leverage on that. uh because it's in

a global account, you have to transfer

into yen. There's no options. You can't

do margin.

But I I'm astonished. Uh Gian Shu Dong,

who is our close friend who tipped us

off on that trade, he did this like I

don't know 60page report on Reaku. He

really nailed it. Gianu nailed it again.

He's been on fire. He's the He's our

Bloom Energy guy, too. So, speaking of

Bloom Energy, too,

>> uh, see Bloom,

>> it exploded off of that um,

>> listen,

>> off of that uh, expanded contract with

Oracle.

>> This is what we've been saying.

>> It's it's up 55% in the past month.

>> But this is what we've been saying.

Bloom Energy is in negotiations with

every hyperscaler. So, like, when are

they going to when's the Meta

announcement? When's the Amazon

announcement? when is the Google

announcement? Like the they're what

they're bringing to market simply has to

be fully proven. Um, but they are still

>> and with each announcement it gets a

little bit more proven and easier for

the next company to actually take them

seriously because I think that that

their biggest problem was kind of people

not believing their tech and now Oracle

and then the stock booms up and if we

get another announcement I I just expect

that that chart should go up with a jolt

every time there's a new announcement

and if not I don't know what I don't

know what we're doing. The the issue

with Bloom is it's a super volatile

stock, right? So any bad news, any even

P, By the way, Bloom went down to what

$75 a share on quote bad news that we

knew was BS. That's why we doubled down

on Bloom. But

>> but it doesn't matter if it's BS. If

there's some rumor or some

misinterpretation of the market or

Bloom, people will take that stock down

so violently, it could drop by 40% in a

millisecond. So, if you're invested in

Bloom, you need to be ready for that

type of volatility. But wow, has Bloom

performed for us, man. That has just

been one hell of a call this year.

Uh, what else people want to know about?

Troy Baker wants to know if there's

anything new with Sphere, which is

another one that uh in the past month is

up 13%.

Uh up 430%

in one year. You were in this heavy for

uh the Wizard of Oz trade. Are you still

in it?

>> I

>> Anything new? And now I think I'm

pulling my account up because sometimes

I don't even know. But I believe I am

fully out of sphere.

>> I'm fully out too and kind of regretting

it.

>> Well, you know, like I said, here's the

deal, guys. It was a social arbit trade

and we entered sphere when there was a

massive information imbalance in the

company and we exited it when the rest

of the world

learned about what we already knew.

Okay. So since then the company has gone

up like 400%. And that's what being a

social investor is all about. Does it

mean that Sphere can't continue to grow

from here? Absolutely not. Um the

company could but but that's a different

trade. So I need to now understand what

new information do I understand about

sphere that the market hasn't

appreciated or is unaware of for me to

get back into sphere because I'm not

buying sphere as a fundamental you know

investor or as a technical investor. I

only buy and sell things as a social orb

investor. So that's why I'm out of

sphere. My thesis is now well known and

the stock price same listen bloom I

still think bloom is really

misunderstood by a big chunk of the

market. I think bloom if they continue

to execute if uh I think there's a lot

more upside to bloom if the company

executes because I do think they will be

a primary beneficiary of the power trade

for the AI super cycle. So, I don't want

to sell sell my bloom yet.

>> Let's talk about a stock. We talked

about our winners. We always also

address our losers. Let's talk about

TAC, Trans Alta.

>> Uh it currently uh three-month chart on

that it's down two and a almost 3%. One

month it's down 5%.

One year still up 44%. But we were not

in it for that for that rise.

>> But it's up 3% today.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Well,

>> Transalta, uh, they got killed by a

couple things. One, the we were

investing in Transalta because of the

inevitable move of data centers to

Alberta and Trans Alta would be a

primary beneficiary as one of the few

companies that has excess power in

Alberta to partner with data centers.

Right? Then they hit a major delay with

uh their data center deal. The

administration here in the US from my

intel is pressuring all the hyperscalers

not to move into Canada. They want them

here. So that could present additional

delays going into Alberta. Three, they

had an exceptionally warm uh winter in

Alberta which kind of hurt their energy

situation there in terms of pricing. So,

it was kind of like the perfect storm of

bad news. I'm not selling because I

still believe I I think I have exited

part of my position because I needed to

exit partially out of a lot of positions

when my account got destroyed last

month. But I feel that it is an

inevitability uh that data centers will

get into Canada and Alberta

specifically. So, I'm holding the

majority of my position in Trans Alta.

It kind of sucks that we're not

participating in this market move right

now, but I'm not selling for now. I I I

think I I don't know how long it will be

with this administration before they

loosen up some of that rhetoric on

having to build just here in the US, but

I think it's an inevitability. So, it

could be two months from now or or 18

months from now before that story

finally gets to play out.

>> I'm hanging on to it. And uh as a as

just a tracker for knowing uh where this

is since we first talked about it, it is

down 14%.

Because that's what I'm down in. And I

>> People were asking about healthcare

stocks. Um I don't buy healthc care

stocks when tech stocks are exploding.

For me, healthcare is like a recession

stock because people overspend on health

care during recession.

>> So, I bought a healthcare stock. Jordan,

>> you did?

>> Yes, I did.

>> Which one?

>> So, it's a it's a s You know how

everyone's talking about this SAS

apocalypse, right? All these SAS

companies are getting destroyed.

>> Eliminated. I was trying to figure out

which of these SAS companies that got

destroyed, if any, do I actually like

long term that I that I think is

relatively protected from AI. And the

company I settled on was Viva Systems,

Vev.

um they are I mean you could research

them but they are basically in the

healthc care world and I think because

they sit in that world I think there's

simply more hurdles more regulation the

moat is larger I think the degree of

safety and trust that's involved in

anything that touches that sector is

going to make it more difficult for pure

artificial intelligence frontier model

companies to come in and disrupt the

space. So they got beaten down along

with all the other SAS companies and I

like them. So I I opened up I mean pull

the chart you could see look at that.

Wow. They literally got basically cut in

half by 50%. I took a position in the

last couple weeks. So we'll see it's a

long they're basically a cloud uh cloud

provider for the health sc life life

sciences industry.

>> Yeah. You see I don't really view that

as like a healthcare stock. When I think

healthcare stocks I'm thinking you know

like uh you know any of the any of like

UNH or uh you know

>> okay I I'm talking more

>> hospital stocks um HCA those types of

stocks. But we believe that the entire

sector is going to massively grow over

the next couple decades because of the

aging uh population. Right, Jordan? So,

>> I'm not saying that I don't like

healthcare stocks. I'm just not buying

any right now when tech stocks are going

insane. Whenever they roll over,

whenever tech stocks, you know, have

their next freak out and we're all

recession doom and gloom, then I might

buy some healthcare. But that's why I

like Viva Systems because they they they

got cut by 50%. Right? They got cut by

50%. They are a technology company that

I think long-term actually has some huge

tailwinds as more money gets pumped into

the entirety of the health care sector

with the aging population. So I I think

with with reg the regulatory environment

it gets really tricky Jordan when you're

talking about United Healthcare and all

these other you know insurance

companies. What is the government going

to mandate? I I have no clue. But I'd

rather be in a technology company there

that that's going to benefit from the

expansion of that sector that's somewhat

I think protected

>> from the regulatory environment. And

that same regulatory environment

actually might protect them a bit from

pure AI type companies that aren't fully

proven out touching patient data, you

know.

>> Yeah, I think that's good.

>> So related to healthcare and probably

the topic for an entire episode on its

own, but how do we invest in the peptide

trend? Josh wants to know.

>> Check back with us next week when we do

our peptide episode of Dumb Money. That

is going to be a good one, guys. This

peptide trend is no longer a trend. It's

officially a super cycle just like AI.

This is going to be one of the biggest

movements I think of the decade. Uh it's

unstoppable. It started just with kind

of rich guys talking about peptides from

their doctor kind of getting doing stuff

that no one else even knew about. And

now it's starting to scale out and

become democratized to where

>> it's gone ex mainstream and it will be

the thing that is on the Today show in

two months. And so we we definitely want

to get in early.

>> Guys, let me tell you this is no joke.

The the peptide trade is real. Uh we're

going to dive really deep into the

peptide peptide trade next week. We are

in the earliest stages of uh the

commercialization of peptides. I I look

at this moment in a similar way to when

I was talking about GLP1s back before

anybody was talking about GLP ones.

Remember Dave? When we were at the OMIC

trade, people thought we were insane.

I think like 35% of my portfolio back

then was in Eli Liy. Um and

>> yeah, you you were early on Eli Liy. Um

I was later that was that was good.

>> Jordan, I see

>> Novo Nordisk.

No, Novo. Actually, I'll take it back. I

was in Novo before really.

>> Novo was first. I own some Novo right

now.

>> I'm kind of mostly out of that stuff.

Yeah. Again, because the market, not

that it's bad, but the market now fully

understands everything that I understood

about the GLP1 movement back in the day

and how large it was going to get.

>> Um, I think peptides, guys, are

potentially that big. This is such a

massive storyline. We just got to figure

out the trades and

>> let's be mindful of time. We're we're at

an hour and nine and I know that uh we

>> got because I am stumping for

schoolboard elections.

>> Wait, what does that mean?

>> I don't know what that means.

>> Are you gonna be on a

>> So, I'm like out at the at the polling

sites talking to voters.

>> Oh, boy. Yeah.

>> Local politics. Very political.

Love it, man. Love it. Everyone should

get involved in local politics. That's

where people's time should be spent

trying to make a difference, I think.

>> Um, all right. Well, let's hope Amazon

keeps moving here, guys. Amazon earnings

next week. We might need

>> That's right. Oh, we we should probably

do an Amazon episode in addition to a

peptide episode if we, you know, we're

not going to be able to pull that off.

We We can do like one episode a month. I

I love the peptide episode research

because I'm I'm researching it for the

trade, but I'm researching it for

myself. I I I need to get some of my

hair back, man. I I need I I

>> I might be taking peptides, man. They

are the uh it's it's the supplement that

actually works. I

>> I was with a guy yesterday. He was on

this reality show thing with me and this

guy was 57 years old and I swear he

looked 37 tops. I said, "Tell me right

now everything that you're on right

now." And I I have a list I have a list

of the pep diets he's on.

>> Send me the list.

>> I will, man. Cuz like it's

>> You just send you to Brian Johnson's

website.

>> No, this guy was legit. Legit. I could

not believe like I I would do anything

to look like this guy looked. Um so

yeah, this is this will be a fun one. We

do our peptide episode.

>> All right, look for that next week here

on Dumb Money. Everybody have yourself a

great weekend. Oh, little uh view of

which island are you on there in Hawaii?

>> Uh I am on the northshore of Hawaii

leaving imminently. So like this is my

last couple of hours here. I've been

here all week. Uh, I'm I will be home

within hours. So

>> So we we'll see it was we'll see you

soon and we'll see everybody else next

week here on Dumb Money.

>> Thanks.

>> And I have to hit the button twice.